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Carter Roy
Hey there. As we wrap up 2025, I wanted to thank you for listening and maybe watching. We started 2025 scaling deadly peaks for a mountaintop murder mystery, spent an uncomfortable amount of time staring into the eyes of a cursed painting and debating whether octopuses are aliens and what the plural form of octopus really is. We covered popes, poisonings, painters on video, we shared treasure maps, FBI files, and even what I really look like, you might recall. Every December we step back and reflect on some favorite episodes from the year. That's right, I am declassifying my best of 2025 picks. Today's my first pick. Three men escaped Alcatraz, evaded the FBI, and lived secret lives. This episode actually happened because of listener requests from several of you, so thank you for the suggestion. We'd love to investigate more theories from fans next year, so please keep dropping suggestions in the Spotify comments and on social we'll be back in January with brand new episodes. Thanks again for an incredible 2020.
In the same way the Titanic was unsinkable until it sank, Alcatraz was inescapable until three inmates escaped in 1962. Frank Morris, John Anglin, and Clarence Anglin masterminded a prison break and seemingly executed it to a table. Afterward, the Alcatraz authorities and the FBI alleged the men died in the frigid waters of the San Francisco Bay. But those were the same people who'd claimed the prison was inescapable. The three inmates clearly outwitted the prison guards, and those same smarts may have helped them outrun the FBI and the US Marshals for over 50 years while leading secret second lives in South America.
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Carter Roy
In the mid 20th century, Alcatraz's prisoners had a reputation. They were either infamous or deemed most likely to attempt escape. There were some exceptions, but from the 1930s to the 1960s, if wardens caught a criminal breaking out of another prison, they'd seriously consider sending him to Alcatraz. The prison featured some of the most stringent security measures in 12 official headcounts a day, constant surveillance, tool proof cell bars, automatic locks, hidden microphones a convict passed through eight metal detectors a day, minimum. In the cafeteria, prisoners ate beneath silver ornaments, not decorations. They were canisters of tear gas ready to drop in case of a riot like the one that broke out in 1946. In the yard, armed guards patrolled high catwalks so nothing would go unnoticed. The surrounding fence, topped with barbed wire, was almost unnecessary because anyone who climbed it faced the San Francisco Bay. Alcatraz is an island. That's how it got its nickname, the rock. On all sides, freezing cold water crashes and roils. Even if a prisoner evaded the headcounts, gun towers and barbed wire, they'd still need to swim a mile and a half minimum to shore.
All this to say it was shocking when three prisoners went missing. It started early morning on Tuesday, June 12, 1962, as a patrolman walked through B block doing his head count. When Frank Morris didn't emerge from his cell, the guards shouted to wake him up. But Frank didn't move. This was strange. Inmates knew to be up for inspection or risk punishment. The guard repeated his orders. He wouldn't give them again. No response. Angry, the patrolman opened the cell and nudged Frank. Frank's head moved. Then it clattered on the floor. Disembodied, the patrolman yelped. He looked at the decapitated head and realized it was made of paper mache and paint. It had cracked when it hit the hard floor. Within minutes, patrolman found two more paper mache heads in cells normally occupied by brothers John and Clarence Anglin. Further inspection revealed loose ventilation grates in all three cells with holes leading to an underused utility corridor. Inside the corridor, they found a workshop with glues, screws, wrenches and raincoat scraps scattered about. Records showed 52 raincoats had gone missing over the past few months. A ventilation shaft hung high above the utility corridor and sure enough, it opened to the roof. On the roof, they found footprints. At that, they sounded the escape siren. Guards immediately canvassed the island and alerted the FBI, Coast Guard, Highway Patrol, army and Bay Area Police. The Coast Guard patrolled the waters, looking for the men. Military helicopters joined. Not knowing how quickly the men could be traveling, FBI agents knocked on doors in towns across the bay like Sausalito and Tiburon. They warned locals to be on high alert for escaped prisoners. With the three inmates gone, questions ran wild. Had the men had any visitors lately? Suspicious letters? Conversations? In interviews? The remaining inmates didn't provide answers. They hadn't heard, seen or noticed anything, really, except for one. Allen West. A career criminal, Allen West's years of burglary, larceny and car theft had put him behind bars repeatedly. Multiple escape attempts and numerous assaults on fellow prisoners landed him on alcatraz for the second time in 1958. In his interview, Allen west dripped smugness and oozed information. His account is the primary source for what we know about the escape because, as Allen told it, he was in on the plan. Alan's story starts a year and a half prior, in January 1961. That's when Clarence Anglund arrived, three months after his brother John. By this point, Allen west had been talking about escaping for years. It was an obsession, an unfulfilled dream. After past failures landed him in Alcatraz, he discussed the possibility with pretty much every inmate he came in contact with. Most didn't take him seriously. But Frank Morris and John and Clarence Anglin knew Alan better. Their paths had all crossed before at a prison in Atlanta years earlier. The Anglins quickly got on board with Alan's latest plan. They had lives they hoped to return to. Both brothers were in their early 30s with families and partners. Frank Morris was a harder sell. No real friends or family, but he still wanted his freedom. By early winter 1961, the goal was set. Escape, America's most inescapable prison. Now, bursting out of a maximum security prison with no resources seems like an impossible task. But they have some expertise. They've all attempted prison breaks before. That's how they got here. The Anglins were transferred in from Leavenworth Prison in Kansas, where they'd been held for separate crimes. In Leavenworth, John had tried to break Clarence out by putting him in an enormous bread box. He and another inmate attempted to carry the box outside, but got caught straining to lift something that should have been lightweight. Meanwhile, Frank Morris had attempted escape from the maximum security Louisiana State Prison five years earlier while cutting sugar cane on work duty. He and another inmate vanished. Later, the warden admitted he had no idea how they did it. Frank spent a few months on the lam, even burglarizing a bank outside New Orleans, before being recaptured and sent to a number of federal prisons, eventually arriving at Alcatraz for the remainder of his sentence. And though Allen west was mostly talk, he'd successfully broken out of a Florida prison after managing to steal a gun. But of course, he too ended up in Alcatraz. Drawing on past failures, the foursome concocted a plan that could actually work. At the back of each prison cell was a small grate. Behind each grate was an old unsealed corridor used for utility work. If they chiseled the wall around the cell grates enough to squeeze themselves through, they could access the corridor. And if they could climb the pipes inside the corridor, they could access the roof. Then just one more climb down the outside of the building. A quick sneak past the guard towers and a bolt for the beach. All they needed was proper tools and to not get caught. Conveniently, Allen west had years worth of intelligence about the inner workings of Alcatraz. He knew the cement in the cell block was rotting and porous. He could break it with a spoon, so he smuggled one from the kitchen mess and fashioned it into a chisel with a nail clipper. The Anglin brothers and Frank followed Alan's lead. They stole metal scraps from the prison workshops and made homemade saw blades. After careful observation, the men learned they had about a 45 minute window every day between guard rotations. After dinner and before lights out. With all inmates in their cells, there was a general din, instruments, radios, conversations. So each evening, under the COVID of after dinner noise, they angled small hand mirrors out of their cell bars as a lookout. Then they chiseled tiny, painstaking little holes in the cement around the vent. Before lights out, they plugged the holes with toilet paper and blended it into the wall with soap chips. Apparently, no one could tell the difference. When the holes grew bigger, they covered them with cardboard. Frank took it a Step further, expressing a sudden desire to learn the accordion and using the case to hide his chipped away wall. Meanwhile, Clarence stole hair clippings from the prison barbershop and glued them on the paper mache heads that eventually acted as their body doubles, which they tested well before the breakout. Once the grates were open, the men started crawling into the vents. At night, they climbed up the ventilation shaft to the top of their cell block, which became a secret workshop. In the midnight hours, they tackled the next pressing how to get off the island. Anyone leaving Alcatraz on official business traveled by a daily ferryboat. But for Allen West, Frank Morris and Clarence and John Anglin, getting on that boat, let alone stealing it, was out of the question. The keys were heavily guarded in a gun tower. If they wanted a boat, they'd have to build it. As maybe fate would have it. John read a magazine article about how to vulcanize rubber with heat, sealing it together and making it waterproof. And he just so happened to have a thin sheet of rubber in the form of his prison issued raincoat. He proposed they melt the seams together and reinforce the edges with waterproof glue, conveniently available in the Alcatraz Industries workshops. But they'd need a lot more than four raincoats. So Frank, Allen and the Anglins started stealing them. And as they melted together their raft, Frank realized how to inflate it. The accordion. By night, he dismantled the instrument and used the components to silently inflate the raft. To everyone's excitement, it held. This whole time, they mined information from inmates who knew the Bay area well. They asked about the strength of the tides and currents and the shortest route. The two most suggested destinations were angel island or the Marin Headlands just north of the Golden Gate Bridge. According to Allen west, they chose Angel Island. From there they could get to the mainland and steal guns and clothes. They'd use the guns to hijack a car and drive off to freedom. By June 1962, everything was in place. When the new warden went on a two week vacation, the men got their crystal clear window of opportunity. It was time to escape the inescapable.
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Carter Roy
On the evening of June 11, 1962, the four inmates put their escape plan in motion. Between headcounts, Frank, John, and Clarence opened their vents. They placed their body doubles in bed, pocketed a few treasures, and slipped out through the vent hole. Alan did not. When chipping his hole in the weeks before, he'd accidentally made it too big. No matter how much soap and cardboard he used, the vent wouldn't stay in place. So when he learned new toilets were being installed, he filled up his shoes with concrete and used that to refill the edges of his hole. The grill stayed put. Well, a little too well. At go time, Alan couldn't remove the grate. Months of work and he was still trapped. He spent the next few hours chipping away, finally breaking open the grate, racing through the vents, scaling three stories of pipes, bursting onto the roof.
And realizing they'd left without him. Don't feel too bad for him. A prison guard once described him as devoid of honor and said he respected no human being. Oh, and he was a notorious liar. So while his account is the primary source for the Alcatraz escape plot, we can't completely take him at his word. As the FBI questioned him, Alan's description of the homemade raft changed multiple times, which was odd. If he was helping build and design it, he should have known what it looked like. Unless he didn't know the full plan. He wasn't the mastermind. That was Frank Morris. And he wasn't the one contacting the outside. That was the Anglins. But in the end, officials accepted most of what Allen said at face value. After all, the physical evidence around Alcatraz lined up, going off Allen West's account. Detectives, FBI operatives and soldiers combed every inch of the bay. Two days after the breakout, on June 13, a crewman on a patrol boat spotted a small object floating in the water. A homemade oar. Investigators showed the item to Allen west, and he confirmed it was one of theirs. Four days later, a handmade life jacket washed ashore near Fort Cronkite beach in the Marin Headlands. The next week, another life jacket was recovered, this time with human teeth marks on the inflation tube. Again, one of theirs. Shortly after that, investigators found A rubber packet filled with photographs of the Anglin brothers, friends and family, and a list of names and addresses. Everyone the escapees trusted most. The FBI started monitoring those addresses and wiretapping those phones with no results. Prospects didn't look good for the three escapees. Considering it was both practical and sentimental, the packet seemed too important to jettison. If the brothers weren't holding on to these mementos, that must mean they drowned. Their bodies in the raft were likely washed out into the Pacific. The public quickly came to terms with that theory. But behind the scenes, there was a different story. At least according to former San Francisco police officer Robert Checkey. One Evening back in 1962, Officer Checkey relaxed off duty at Marina Green, a waterfront park south of Alcatraz. Gazing at the bay, he saw some peculiar movement. A small white boat sat still in the water, its lights off. Suddenly, a beam flashed from the deck. Cecky realized a man was shining a flashlight into the water, but he didn't understand why. He watched in confusion as the boat took off into the darkness. Brushing it off, Checkey chose not to report the suspicious activity that night. But the next day, he learned three men had escaped from Alcatraz. He suspected that white boat was waiting for them, so Checkey filed a report. The FBI immediately called him in for questioning. Over several hours of interrogation, he detailed everything he knew. At the end of the conversation, they told him to cover it up. According to Checky, one FBI agent said, quote, let's make this go away. Let's bury it. And that's not the only allegation of buried evidence. Remember how Allen west said the men planned to steal guns and hijack cars once they reach the mainland? According to the FBI, there were no reports of car or gun thefts lining up with that. So if the men made it to shore, that part of the plan never happened. Many Years later, a U.S. marshal whistleblower claimed there was, in fact, a report. They said a secret FBI report covered a blue Chevy that was reported stolen in Marin county on the night of the breakout. According to a separate police report, later that same night, an identical car ran another vehicle off the road. This was about 100 miles away in Stockton, California. Witnesses on the scene said there were three people inside. For some reason, this hijacking wasn't highly publicized at the time, and the alleged report was seemingly hidden from the public.
Then there's a postcard. On June 18, seven days after the breakout, the Alcatraz warden received a postcard. It read, ha, ha, we made it. Signed Frank John and Clarence. The warden, shrugged off the letter as a fake. And while the FBI gathered samples of the escapee's handwriting for comparison, they never released their findings. Perhaps because if it was legitimate, it would have embarrassed both Alcatraz and the FBI. The government had always sent the most dangerous, cunning federal prisoners to Alcatraz because they knew the island could hold them. If that wasn't true, Alcatraz, the FBI, and the entire criminal justice system would be humiliated. And it wasn't just a PR concern. At the time, Alcatraz was at risk of getting shut down. All that security I covered earlier made it too expensive to run. By 1962, the prison had faced budget cuts and was understaffed. They were three officers shy of the standard 98. And that was when everyone showed up ready to work, which often wasn't the case. And the Road Tower, an outpost that overlooks most of the island, had shrunk its operating hours to daylight only. Perhaps in an effort to get on the right track, they'd recently hired a new warden and acting warden. But its high security reputation was essentially the only thing keeping the prison open. If inmates survived an escape, that reputation would be demolished. And the thing was, Frank Morris and the Anglins might not have been the first to escape alive and have their story brushed under the rug. In 1937, prisoners Ralph Rowe and Ted Cole stole a wrench from the prison's wood shop. They used it to break through a window and a locked gate and ran to the beach. They were never seen or heard from again. Officials claimed a violent storm swept the pair beneath the waves, drowning them. However, their remains were never found. Just like in the case of Frank Morris and the Anglins, it's possible Ralph and Ted also escaped alive and made new lives as free men. And the problem with one allegedly successful escape is that it inspires copycats. In late 1962, mere months after Frank and the Anglins disappeared, two more convicts attempted a breakout. One gave up when he saw the bay. The other dove in. The next day, authorities discovered the escaped inmate lying on the rocks beneath the Golden Gate Bridge. He'd actually made it across the bay, but was suffering from exhaustion and hypothermia by the time he got to land. He couldn't go any further. But he'd proven one swimming from Alcatraz to the Marin Headlands was possible. Even without a raft or life vest, it seemed the inescapable prison was actually quite escapable. And to that point, Alcatraz shut down the next year, in 1963. So if we assume the men made it out and it was covered up. The big question is, where did they go? Since the escape, a few independent investigations have tried to recreate the escapees circumstances. In 2003, Mythbusters hosts Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage attempted to build an identical raft and paddle it across the bay at night. A camera crew and safety personnel watched as the hosts and an assistant took off from the waters near Alcatraz. They paddled through the darkness, refilling the air in their rubber raft. Whenever it started sinking. It was exhausting, but eventually they made it to land. They washed up near the golden gate Bridge over three miles from the rock. Years later, in 2016, experts at Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands used computer simulations to track a possible escape. They determined if the escapees cast off between 11:30pm and midnight at they would wind up at the Marin Headlands underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, just like the mythbusters team. And according to the model, if Frank Morris and the Anglins reached the Marin Headlands and tossed the oars back into the water, they would have probably floated back towards angel island, roughly where authorities discovered the oar. However, if they left much earlier or later than midnight, they would have been swept out to the Pacific Ocean or toward Oakland. In either case, it would take hours longer to make landfall. But according to accounts from Alcatraz prisoners that night they did leave around this midnight window. And according to the Anglin family, the trio didn't even have to make it as far as the Golden Gate Bridge. As the Anglins tell it, Allen west was definitely lying and they know exactly where Frank, John and Clarence went.
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Carter Roy
For decades, John and Clarence Anglin's surviving family has maintained that they know exactly what happened to the three missing inmates. And from the sound of it, the brothers were training for this escape their whole life. John and Clarence were two of 14 siblings born one year apart. They spent their childhoods migrating around the country doing farm work. The family's poverty taught the boys to be resourceful. When they wanted bicycles, they built them from scraps. When they wanted to sneak out of the house at night, they built fake heads. Some of the brothers first break ins were through the ice of Lake Michigan so they could swim. These waters are as cold as those around Alcatraz, if not colder. But the Anglin brothers apparently enjoyed it. As they got older, they started robbing banks with their older brother, Alfred. This put them in and out of prison. John always got out after serving his time. And Clarence, well, he broke out of Florida's Raiford Prison three times.
Eventually, the brothers found themselves together in Leavenworth, and after the breadbox incident, Alcatraz. According to the Anglin family, once John, Clarence and Frank made it to the beach, they paddled their raft to a boat waiting in the bay. The boat's passengers pulled them from the water. This all lines up with Officer Frank Cecky's account, the one he says the FBI buried. The boat sailed to a nearby airport. From there, the men flew to Mexico. How did the Anglin family know all this? They say they got mail. For years after the escape, someone anonymously sent flowers to the Anglin's childhood home. On special occasions, like Mother's Day, there was no card and no return address. But Rachel Anglin had a feeling the deliveries were from her sons, John and Clarence. One year, someone sent older brother Alfred Anglin a leather horse figurine with an intricate pattern. According to the Anglins, it was the same pattern John created on wallets he made in Alcatraz. The Anglins also received Christmas cards signed John and Clarence. They weren't postmarked, so skeptics say they may have been sent before the escape. But the brothers spent much of their pre Alcatraz Lives living separately. Why would they have sent joint Christmas cards then? It is worth noting that Rachel Anglin had her sons declared legally dead in the early 70s. But it's unclear if that was because she believed it or moved to protect them. If she thought Alcatraz and the FBI were going to cover up the escape, then so would she. It's not just the Anglin family saying the trio went on to live so secret lives. In 1993, America's Most Wanted did a special on the Alcatraz escapees and interviewed former inmate Thomas Kent. Kent alleged that Allen west lied to the Alcatraz authorities. According to Kent, the plan was always to meet up with Clarence's girlfriend, who had helped them get to Mexico. That's why the FBI didn't note any stolen cars. There weren't any. Then, in 2016, another man came forward. San Francisco's ABC7 Investigation News team reported that an unidentified man made a deathbed confession. He apparently dictated to a nurse that he and a friend helped the three convicts in their escape from Alcatraz. Allegedly, the two accomplices waited on a white boat on the bay's south shore. The fleeing inmates paddled up in their raft and climbed aboard. Then they all sailed away together. And all of this would align with the account Robert Cecky claims the FBI covered up. According to the Anglins, John, Clarence and Frank Morris moved from Mexico to Brazil. They lived there for the next few decades, for the most part. When Rachel anglin died in 1973, it's been said that two tall strangers in heavy makeup attended her funeral. They allegedly stood at the perimeter and left before anyone could talk to them. And according to an Anglin family member, another unidentified duo reportedly attended their father's service in 1989. Again, they were said to have left quickly, without a word.
Some wanted to believe these unknown people were John and Clarence risking everything just to say goodbye to their parents. At an event for the 50th anniversary of their escape. Two of the Anglin sisters insisted as much. And another interesting rumor, FBI agents attended an Anglin family funeral. You'd think if the organization truly believed John and Clarence were dead, they probably wouldn't have sent agents to pay respects at their mother's civilian funeral. But the FBI also disputed that any agents attended the funeral. The FBI did technically keep the case open until 1979. Their official conclusion? The men did not escape alive. However, the case was reassigned to the U.S. marshals Service, who kept getting new leads. In 1990, one of the Anglin's family friends, Fred Breezy gave them a photograph he'd been holding onto since 1975. Allegedly, it showed John and Clarence in Brazil. They had long hair, sideburns, and sunglasses. Breezy said he'd bumped into them at a bar and learned they were working on their own farm. The Anglin family believed his account. U.S. marshals weren't so sure. Initially, the sunglasses and beards made it impossible to truly identify the men. But in 2020, an Irish ad agency teamed up with an AI company and ran the photo through their facial recognition technology as a promot. Their algorithms concluded the men in the photo were the Anglin brothers. We can't know the accuracy of this project, but perhaps they were out there living their lives. And maybe they were ready to resurface. In 2013, the San Francisco Police Department received an unmarked, handwritten letter. It read in part, my name is John Anglin. I escaped from Alcatraz in June 1962 with my brother Clarence and Frank Morris. I'm 83 years old and in bad shape. I have cancer. Yes, we all made it that night, but barely. If you announce on TV that I will be promised to first go to jail for no more than a year and. And get medical attention, I will write back to let you know exactly where I am. This is no joke.
Reportedly, authorities compared this message to a sample of John Anglin's handwriting and even checked for fingerprints. The results were inconclusive, so they never responded to the sender. Perhaps they worried what they might find. John England still alive. Proof that the FBI failed to catch three of the most wanted fugitives of all time.
Notably, they didn't release any of this to the public until 2018, five years after the letter arrived.
In all this, no one ever heard from Frank Morris, just the Anglin brothers. And it's worth noting that as of 2025, two of the Anglin nephews have published books on the escape, and other family members have given interviews for news media and TV documentaries. But that doesn't mean it's not true. As you may recall, Frank didn't have friends or family on the outside. So if he made it out, he could have lived truly incognito. There was no reason for him to risk getting caught. And if you believe the U.S. marshals, there is still a risk. In 2022, the organization released age progressed photos of the three escapees. They're still looking. In fact, the official statement is that the U.S. marshals Service will continue to pursue the escapees until they are either arrested, positively determined to be deceased, or reach the age of 99. As of early 2025, Frank Morris would be 98 years old. John and Clarence just a few years younger. So if they are alive and out there, we might be about to get some answers.
Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram heconspiracypod. If you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts for more information on the Escape From Alcatraz. Amongst the many sources we used, we found J. Campbell Bruce's book Escape From Alcatraz and Jolene Babiac's book Breaking the Rock. Extremely helpful to our research. Until next time, remember, the truth isn't always the best story and the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written by Mackenzie Moore, Alex Bernard and Maggie Admirer, edited by Maggie Admire, researched by Miki Taylor and Bradley Klein, Fact Checked by Hayley Milliken and Kevin Johnson, engineering by Sam Amezquah and video editing and sound design by Alex Button. I'm your host, Carter Roy.
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Host: Carter Roy (Spotify Studios)
Release Date: December 10, 2025
Carter Roy revisits one of the most captivating episodes of 2025, diving deep into the infamous 1962 Alcatraz prison escape. The episode examines how Frank Morris and the Anglin brothers orchestrated their break from what was believed to be an "inescapable" fortress island, the swirl of conspiracy surrounding their presumed fates, and the enduring mystery of whether they lived out secret lives beyond the reach of the FBI. The show critically unpacks official narratives, alternative accounts, and lingering evidence, raising questions about truth, reputation, and the power of myth in American culture.
"In the same way the Titanic was unsinkable until it sank, Alcatraz was inescapable until three inmates escaped in 1962." – Carter Roy [01:21]
"Allen West dripped smugness and oozed information. His account is the primary source for what we know about the escape." – Carter Roy [05:55]
"Frank took it a step further, expressing a sudden desire to learn the accordion and using the case to hide his chipped away wall." – Carter Roy [13:15]
"At go time, Allen couldn't remove the grate. Months of work and he was still trapped." – Carter Roy [17:55]
"Let's make this go away. Let's bury it." – Attributed to an FBI agent per Checkey [22:04]
“According to the Anglins, John, Clarence and Frank Morris moved from Mexico to Brazil. They lived there for the next few decades, for the most part.” – Carter Roy [35:47]
“My name is John Anglin. I escaped from Alcatraz in June 1962 with my brother Clarence and Frank Morris. I'm 83 years old and in bad shape. I have cancer. Yes, we all made it that night, but barely. If you announce on TV that I will be promised to first go to jail for no more than a year and get medical attention, I will write back to let you know exactly where I am. This is no joke.” [38:33]
"The official statement is that the U.S. Marshals Service will continue to pursue the escapees until they are either arrested, positively determined to be deceased, or reach the age of 99." – Carter Roy [41:34]
On Alcatraz security
“Prisoners ate beneath silver ornaments, not decorations. They were canisters of tear gas ready to drop in case of a riot like the one that broke out in 1946.” – Carter Roy [04:45]
On Allen West’s credibility
“Don't feel too bad for him. A prison guard once described him as devoid of honor and said he respected no human being. Oh, and he was a notorious liar. So while his account is the primary source...we can't completely take him at his word.” – Carter Roy [19:00]
On the government’s stake in suppressing the truth
“The government had always sent the most dangerous, cunning federal prisoners to Alcatraz because they knew the island could hold them. If that wasn’t true, Alcatraz, the FBI, and the entire criminal justice system would be humiliated.” – Carter Roy [24:45]
The 2013 letter
“This is no joke.” – Alleged John Anglin [38:41]
The show’s credo
“Remember, the truth isn't always the best story and the official story isn't always the truth.” – Carter Roy [42:00]
Carter Roy maintains an inquisitive, slightly irreverent, and skeptical tone throughout, blending vivid storytelling with meticulous fact-checking. He frequently highlights the gap between “official” and alternative narratives, referencing sources, family perspectives, and scientific analyses to foster open-ended curiosity about the lingering mystery.
The Alcatraz escape remains one of America’s greatest unsolved mysteries, as this podcast episode skillfully illustrates. Evidence mounts on both sides: authorities push the narrative of tragic drowning, while family—bolstered by witness reports and tantalizing (if inconclusive) forensic evidence—insist the men survived and lived incognito for decades. Carter Roy leaves listeners with a core question at the heart of all conspiracy theories: When the stakes are high, whose story wins—and why?