← Conspiracy Theories
Loading summary
Transcript27 lines
- [00:04]
Carter Roy
It's October 1963 in New York City. Jackhammers are chipping away at granite. A massive stone eagle takes flight inside a sling dangling from a crane. A few forlorn architects stand nearby, holding up picket signs. But at this point, there's nothing they can do. The old Penn Station is being torn down. Back when it was built in 1910, the Roman styled landmark was breathtaking inside and out, with vaulted ceilings, ornate windows and 84 columns. But maintenance was expensive and complicated. Plus, it took up two full blocks more real estate than the growing city could spare. So now it all had to go. But what if there's more to this story than just logistics and capitalism? Perhaps the demolition of Penn Station wasn't just about making the commute more efficient or about freeing up space for a new skyscraper. Could it be that someone wanted to keep the real history of this stunning structure under wraps? Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. I'm. I'm Carter Roy. New episodes come out every Wednesday. You can listen to the audio everywhere and watch the video only on Spotify. And be sure to check us out on instagram @the conspiracypod. Today, we'll be talking about the Tartarian Empire theory, that many of the world's most remarkable structures were all created by Tartarians, an ancient, technologically advanced society. We want to extend a special thanks to our guest, Zach Mortise, whose coverage was instrumental to our research. We'll hear from him directly throughout the episode. Stay with us. This episode of Conspiracy Theories is presented by AMC and amc. Embrace the Darkness In a new season of Anne Rice's Mayfair Witches, Rowan Mayfair, played by Alexandra Daddario, must reckon with the powerful demon Lasher who threatens the entire twisted Mayfair clan. Mayfair Witches Sundays at 9pm exclusively on AMC and AMC. Stream Mayfair Witches now. Exclusively on AMC.
- [02:42]
Zach Mortiz
This episode is brought to you by Paramount. The new season of the Paramount original series School Spirits is here, but the mystery has only just begun. Maddie is still trapped in the afterlife. Now she must work together with her friends in the spirit and living worlds to find a way back before it's too late. Stream the new season of School Spirits now on paramount. Head to paramountplus.com to get started. Oh, Sheet, honey, chill. It's just laundry. Not that I'm talking about these. Arm and hammer power sheets. All the power of arm and hammer. Laundry detergent and a convenient tossable sheet. Oh, Sheet, that's what I'm Arm and hammer power sheets deliver an effective clean at a great price. Think of all the laundry we'll do and all the money we'll save. Oh, sheet arm and hammer, more power to you.
- [03:38]
Carter Roy
Today's conspiracy theory is still in its infancy. Its current iteration only emerged about eight years ago, and there isn't really a centralized or official source of information. The finer points are still being floated and debated on Reddit and YouTube. So before we dive in, keep in mind that everything I'm about to talk about is still actively developing. Consider this a snapshot of a moving target. Tartaria, or Tartary, is an outdated name for a real place that once existed. The vast area appears on the 18th century European maps in what is currently Russia, China and other parts of Eastern Europe and Asia. It's not really accurate to think of the place as an organized country. It was home to several unrelated nomadic tribes that have been around since the 5th century. But according to online theorists, that mainstream narrative isn't true. They believe that the Tartarian empire was once so powerful it influenced architecture all over the world. Believers would tell you that everything from ancient structures like the pyramids to more modern buildings like Penn Station were all assembled by the Tartarians. Theorists generally agree that Tartarian architecture is typified by grand scale and ornate details like breathtaking domes. Basically, if it's built on a massive scale and looks extravagant, chances are Tartarian theorists have claimed it. But theorists really jump on buildings that also have a hint of incongruity in their history or their use. Journalist Zach Mortis uses a great example in his coverage of the Tartarian Empire for Bloomberg City Lab. He singles out a 1939 photograph that shows the stunning multi domed Iowa State Capitol building in the background. In the foreground are a bunch of dirt roads and men building a stone wall by hand. It's pretty incredible that this impressive state building was made by craftsmen who had to spread concrete with their hands. So a Tartarian theorist might argue, maybe the technologically advanced Tartarians built it instead. A post on the Reddit page for Tartaria also points out that it seems weird that hugely impressive struct often have utilitarian uses like a gilded post office or a high school topped with domes. That reinforces the idea that perhaps the ornate building was originally created by Tartarians for a grander use and it only became something more mundane after its original occupants vacated it. Based on their alleged architecture, Tartarians prioritized grandiosity. According to theorists on Reddit and YouTube, they had resources to spend on luxuries because they tapped into an infinite source of energy. There are a few ideas about how the tartarians accessed unlimited energy 1 is related to harnessing the constant attraction and repulsion of magnets to generate functional energy. Another Tartarian theorist links the energy to the mind of inventor Nikola Tesla and involves a rotating magnetic field. But the Tartarians real achievement came from how they transported all that so called free energy. Power didn't move through unsightly wires and utility boxes. Those functions were built right into their dwellings. According to a theory posted on Reddit, the Tartarians often built structures with tall spires and domes on top. Those designs were beautiful, but they also broadcasted and received energy. Some designs might have even generated and stored energy as well. Believers think that free energy gave Tartarians the power to influence architecture worldwide. Some even think their empire actually spanned the globe at one point. But Tartarians couldn't hold onto world domination forever. Eventually, the empire fell. Within Tartarian theory, there's a legend. It tells of a global mud flood that wiped out most of the citizens of the Empire of Tartaria and many of their buildings. Only a few survived this event, known as the Great Reset. Now, when it comes to the timeline of the Great Reset, theorists are a bit all over the place. Some people think it was as recent as a hundred years ago. Others think it happened earlier, or that there have been multiple resets over the course of history, with Tartaria mostly obliterated. The theorists speculate that what remained of humanity came upon Tartarian structures and claimed them as their own. But the leaders now holding power didn't want to cede any credit to the Tartarians, so they actively concealed Tartaria from the rest of humanity. Over the years, the real history of these buildings was lost. Theorists would tell you that part of the effort to hide Tartaria includes destroying Tartarian buildings like Old Penn Station. Then these architectural masterpieces are replaced and hopefully forgotten. In their place comes new construction projects, typically done in the modern style, sleek and simplistic in comparison to the intricate Tartarian form. Take Madison Square Garden, the arena that replaced Old Penn Station. If you've never seen it, the circular building's exterior is all mirrored glass and LED screens. Inside, it's utilitarian. Tiered seating, exposed beams to support lighting kits, and a giant Jumbotron in the center. It fulfills one of the goals of modern architecture. It's functional, but it has none of the flair of Old Penn Station or any of its other Tartarian cousins. But many theorists believe that the concealment of Tartaria goes far beyond replacing their buildings one by one. The ongoing suppression campaign will allegedly take advantage of any opportunity to obliterate Tartarian history. There's some speculation that warfare is a helpful facade that lets nations destroy Tartarian buildings. A common example they cite is St. Paul's Cathedral in London, designed by Sir Christopher Wren and completed in 1711. The landmark was damaged in World War II during the Blitz, but not according to Tartarian supporters. They believe the cathedral was built by the Empire and that World War II was a cover to destroy evidence that Tartaria ever existed. If there has been a decades long global effort to conceal the true history of the Tartarian Empire, that can only mean one there's something buried here that the powers that be don't want anyone to find. This episode is brought to you by AMC and AMC Embrace the Darkness in the new season of Anne Rice's Mayfair Witches, Rowan Mayfair, played by Alexandra Daddario, must reckon with the powerful demon Lasher, now in human form, who threatens the entire twisted Mayfair clan. Will she protect her family or protect her power? Mayfair witches Sundays at 9pm exclusively on AMC and AMC. Stream Mayfair Witches now exclusively on AMC.
- [12:25]
Zach Mortiz
Welcome to Nadia Yada island, next on Metro's Nadia Yada island podcast. I almost fainted when the four new bombshells arrived. Four free Samsung Galaxy A16 5G phones at Metro. No way. And finding out the fourth line is free. Things got heated. That's wild. Join Metro and get four free Samsung 5G phones only at Metro plus tax. Bring four numbers and an ID and sign up for any Metro Flex plan not available currently AT T Mobile or been with Metro in the past 180 days.
- [12:56]
Carter Roy
Online theorists suspect that a global advanced society called the Tartarian Empire constructed many of the world's most remarkable buildings. But current world leaders don't want the rest of us to know about it. We're going to break down this theory into its parts and examine the evidence to support each one. Let's start with the civilization itself. I've already talked about how a large area of present day Eastern Europe and Asia was actually called Tartaria on 18th century maps, but its borders are vague and inconsistent. They move around depending on who drew the map. On a Russian map from the 18th century, Tartaria is a smaller area around present day Moldova. A French map from around the same time calls a much larger area of present day Kazakhstan and Russia Tartary. So the civilization definitely existed during the 18th century, though it's not clear how big it was. But it makes sense to put a little more credence into a Russian map Those cartographers were native to the general area. The French map says it's based on the accounts of several travelers from various nations and several observations made in that country. So probably not the most exact. The people who lived in this area weren't called Tartarians, though, they were called Tartars. Tartars were a mix of nomadic tribes who lived in present day Mongolia. And they probably first became known to Europeans sometime in the 13th century when some of the tribes teamed up with Chinggis Khan, who we know as Genghis Khan and eventually invaded Russia. Later on, most Tartars ended up under Russian rule. But that's just what we know about the people who lived in the area in the 13th century. Before that seems to be a bit of a question mark now. Even though there's no physical evidence to support the idea of a vast, technologically advanced ancient society, it's not something we can completely rule out. In 2024 alone, there were multiple reports of lost civilizations being unearthed, like one in the Amazon that the BBC described as a huge ancient. And scientists admit there could be more out there that modern humans haven't found hard evidence for yet. Then there's the fact that the oral histories of many ancient cultures include stories about advanced civilizations akin to Tartaria. We've covered some on this show like Atlantis or the continent of Mutual. So while there's no hard evidence to show for the conspiracy theory version of Tartaria, well, we can't say for sure that it never existed. Let's move on to the next part of the theory. Tartarians ability to create and distribute free energy. One of the basic guide rails of physics is the law of conservation of energy. It's also referred to as the first law of thermodynamics. It says that energy can't be created or destroyed. Energy can be converted, like in car engines or solar panels. But during this process, some energy is always converted to heat. We call that the second law of thermodynamics. Welcome back to high school physics. So if free energy is real, it has to create energy out of nothing and transfer that energy with 100% efficiency and break the first and second laws of thermodynamics. The pursuit of free energy dates all the way back to the 12th century and inventors have been chasing it ever since. Even though there have been numerous high profile attempts, from Leonardo da Vinci's plans for a perpetual motion machine, all the way to a water powered car in the nineteen 1980s, no one has been able to crack it. At least not publicly. You might remember us talking about free energy on the show A few years ago, we discussed a US Law called the Invention Secrecy Act. It allows the government to classify certain patents. During one interpretation of the law, courts decided any technology that improved energy conversion by 70 to 80% would be eligible for censure, meaning they could hypothetically bury a source of free energy. So we can say three things for one, free energy isn't publicly available right now, two it's an idea people have been working on for a long time and three, if an unlimited energy source did emerge, the United States government theoretically has a mechanism in place to keep it covered up. Again, this piece of the theory leaves us in a gray area. Just because we don't have access to free energy right now, that doesn't mean it's never been discovered. Let's look at the Part of the theory There is hard evidence the Architecture Tartaria believers are skeptical about the mainstream narrative describing how some so called Tartarian structures were built. I already mentioned the juxtaposition of the impressive Iowa Capitol building and the handmade low stone walls that surround it. Penn Station is another example. Photographs of its construction in 1910 show the impressive structure surrounded by dirt roads. The only mechanical construction equipment in sight is what looks like a set of spindly wooden cranes. It may be hard to imagine how craftsmen could have erected the intricate 150 foot ceilings of old Penn Station with so little equipment. And theorists might add, architectural progress doesn't seem to line up either. If our technology is advanced today, why don't new buildings look like filigreed tartarian showstoppers? Well, our guest today has a good explanation for that.
- [19:33]
Zach Mortiz
My name is Zach Mortiz. I'm a Chicago based design critic and journalist.
- [19:38]
Carter Roy
Zach's background is in architecture and its relationship to culture, so it made perfect sense for him to cover the Tartarian Empire theory for Bloomberg City Lab and explain some of the flaws in the theory. Now, without getting into the nitty gritty of construction details, Zach lays out a simple answer for why buildings looked more grand in the past than they do now. The cost of labor and equipment.
- [20:05]
Zach Mortiz
To carve these intricate buildings you need a massive army of stonemasons, right? And you can generate lots of cut and carved stone in a situation where labor is relatively cheap and machines are pretty expensive, right? And that's what you had back then. Today labor is relatively expensive and the machines can churn out stuff on a factory floor really cheaply, right? So that's why our buildings today are kind of minimalist and Regularized because their individual components are churned out in factories.
- [20:40]
Carter Roy
For most of human history, labor was a relatively cheap resource. When Penn Station was built in 1910, it was reasonable to pay a skilled artisan to sculpt a large eagle statue because mass produced building materials weren't yet widely available. But mounting that eagle several stories up required some mechanical assistance. Zach points out that Tartarian theorists might not be aware of the technology that was actually available to construct buildings like Penn Station and other alleged Tartarian structures.
- [21:17]
Zach Mortiz
They had scaffolding, they had elevators. In the early 20th century, there were devices used to kind of quasi mass manufacture some kinds of ornament like terracotta, for example. The technological innovations that allowed something like a gold leaf capitol dome are pretty easy to find.
- [21:37]
Carter Roy
So the economic realities and therefore the construction priorities were just different back then. And even though technology might have been limited, it wasn't non existent. But there's still the destruction and replacement of so called Tartarian structures to consider. Zach links the trend towards simplistic and streamlined contemporary structures to the rise of modern architecture.
- [22:04]
Zach Mortiz
So modern architecture is a set of ideas that emerged on the ground early to mid 20th century and gained really widespread acceptance all over the world after World War II. And this is an architecture that prizes above all economy, simplicity and minimalism. It often saw the architecture styles of the past that were very ornate and flowery and expressive as wasteful and kind of profligate.
- [22:34]
Carter Roy
So there are well documented reasons why architecture used to look different than it does today, and none of them point to a niche ancient society. But perhaps that's because the Tartarians were wiped out before their time. Let's move on to the next piece of the theory, the mud flood, AKA the great reset that allegedly annihilated most of Tartaria in one fell swoop. Some believe that this flood completely submerged some Tartarian structures underground, while others remain standing, but only partially visible above ground. This, they say, is most obvious in buildings with windows at ground level. If you've ever been in a subterranean basement, you might have noticed small windows up near the ceiling, like the one you see here. The view outside is right at ground level. This kind of window can bring to mind a horror movie. The victim, trapped inside a basement, wants to escape through the small opening to freedom. But it's always just out of reach. A Tartarian theorist would argue that these ground level windows used to be on the first or even second floor levels of the building that are now underground after a massive soil shift during a mud flood. Visually, it does look that way. These windows are usually half the size of a typical window and don't have an obvious use. What's the point of a window that has you eye level with the lawn? Well, it turns out they did serve a purpose.
- [24:13]
Zach Mortiz
When old buildings were built, electricity was expensive or non existent. Didn't really have air conditioning. But maybe sometimes the guy building the building didn't want the people working in the basement to be in the dark sweating to death. So they would dig out concrete moat around a building, they put some windows in so you get a little bit of light and air.
- [24:30]
Carter Roy
Nowadays zoning laws often require these kinds of windows in residential basements to create a means of escape in an emergency. There's not a lot of other evidence for a worldwide mud flood. If a geological event that significant occurred, it seems like there would be more physical indicators beyond submerged buildings. There's also a complete lack of historical evidence. If it happened within the last 300 years, there would almost certainly be written accounts of the disaster that leads us directly into the last part of the suppression. Theorists think there's a global conspiracy to conceal the history of the Tartarian empire. There are plenty of ideas about how suppression is being committed and why. I already mentioned efforts to dismantle alleged Tartarian structures, from individual demolition to large scale destruction masquerading as warfare. But theorists also think there were campaigns to stamp out any memories of Tartaria. Some redditors talk about the possibility that 19th century Tartarian truthers could have been institutionalized to silence them. According to believers, there are a few things motivating this massive effort to reconfigure history. One could be free energy. We already know that the United States government can kill any invention that significantly affects energy efficacy. Courts granted that power due to concerns over national security, an infinite energy source could make an enemy unbeatable. There are economic interests to consider too. Reddit posters joke about Big Electric wanting to keep free energy a secret. But we do know that oil companies profits can hinge on fossil fuels remaining the primary global energy source. We obviously don't have any evidence that oil companies suppress free energy, but they do fight to maintain dominance over other energy sources like solar or wind power. But again, all of this is just speculation. I haven't come across any hard evidence of suppression like documentation of a cover up or testimony from a whistleblower. All the so called examples of suppression also have a legitimate explanation. The thinking behind the demolition of Penn Station, for example, was well documented. All in all, the Tartarian Empire theory is compelling. But at best it depends on the possibility of evidence rather than the real thing. As it stands, theorists can't back up the claims with proof that can compete with the mainstream narratives. According to Zak's research, in 2021, the Reddit hub for Tartarian theorists, R. Tartaria had 8,700 members. By the end of 2024, it had over 50,000. This theory is mostly speculation with minimal evidence. So why is it still exploding online?
- [27:55]
Zach Mortiz
This episode is brought to you by Meundies Underwear Drawers are like the Wild West. You never know what you're going to pull out or what shape it's in. So upgrade your collection with the buttery, soft comfort of Meundies. Meundies signature fabric is as soft as a warm hug from your favorite sweater. Plus, it's breathable and oh so comfy, making it ideal for all day wear. Get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping at MeUndies.com Spotify with code Spotify that's MeUndies.com Spotify code Spotify this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places between payroll, your tax consultant and the IRS. If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply the online.
- [28:57]
Carter Roy
Conspiracy theory that an ancient advanced society called Tartaria built most of the significant structures worldwide is gaining popularity, but proponents don't offer much coherent proof of their ideas. Something is drawing people in, but it's not an evidence based argument. According to Zach Mortiz, a big part of the theory's appeal is the central theme of distrust and fear of rapid change. From an architectural standpoint, he says he can see where the theorists are coming from.
- [29:32]
Zach Mortiz
I think there's some truth in it. I mean, because of how quickly modernism took hold. The built environment of the 1920s looked radically different from the built environment of the 1960s.
- [29:44]
Carter Roy
And rapidly changing architecture is tangible and inescapable. Depending on where you live, you might see evidence of this change all the time. It can directly affect our daily experience in a really visceral way.
- [29:59]
Zach Mortiz
People have the elementary school that they went to torn down and they see pretty gross five by five apartment building that they can't afford to live in. Put in its place, then yeah, that's also Kind of real cultural disjunction rooted in the built environment.
- [30:16]
Carter Roy
So the Tartarian empire could appeal to some believers because it provides a straightforward answer for a very complicated why does it feel like things are getting worse and not better? This certainly isn't just an American theory. The Internet has no borders. But for the purposes of accurate data, let's consider just the American Tartarian believers. According to an NBC News poll from September 2024, 65% of the 1,000 adult Americans surveyed said they felt the country was moving in the wrong direction. Some of them might very well find that the nostalgia of Tartarian Empire theory really hits the spot. Fear of rapid change is a significant subtext of the theory, but there's more to it. Believing that Tartarians influenced architecture worldwide requires also believing that there is a vast conspiracy to cover up the ancient society. Anyone who buys into this theory could also be highly skeptical of anyone with power. Zach noticed the same thing in his.
- [31:26]
Zach Mortiz
Research when I first started looking at Tartar authoritarian stuff. There's a populist impulse from the outset. Yeah, there, there's a suspicion of people in power, there's a distrust of elites, there's a distrust of elite run institutions.
- [31:43]
Carter Roy
Again, this piece of theory fits right in with the mindset of many Americans. In the eight years since the Tartarian Empire theory emerged, the Pew Research center recorded some of the lowest levels ever of American confidence in their government in 2024. Only 22% of those polled said they trust the government to do what is right always or most of the time. So the Tartarian empire tapped into two deep seated sources of American discontent that could explain why its popularity has skyrocketed. But that isn't the whole story. Zach noticed another trend among folks posting about Tartaria looky loos.
- [32:29]
Zach Mortiz
A lot of Tartarian stuff is people just getting gassed up on how cool old buildings were. And I mean sometimes it's not even clear if they really believe that there was a world spanning hyper advanced empire. It's just like wouldn't it be cool if Wouldn't it be cool if there was some frontier of knowledge that's fantastical and amazing outside of my day to day existence?
- [32:52]
Carter Roy
A quick browse through the Tartaria group on Reddit turns up plenty of comments like this one from the summer of 2024. Quote this is my all time favorite conspiracy theory. So silly. And I love silly. So the theory's rise in popularity doesn't necessarily mean it's gaining new believers. It could just mean that it's entertaining we can all agree that the world has changed rapidly in the last decade, and not just architecturally. When things are feeling the most unfamiliar, the most unsettling, the most alienating, we look for fellowship, people who believe the same things we do. And we look for distraction entertainment. The Tartarian Empire theory provides both. Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on instagram @the conspiracypod. If you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Or email us@conspiracy storiespotify.com A big thank you to our guest, Zach Mortise. Please check out his other work.
- [34:13]
Zach Mortiz
You can look for my writing in Bloomberg, City Lab, the New York Review of Architecture, Architectural Record, Landscape Architecture Magazine, and elsewhere.
- [34:23]
Carter Roy
Until next time, remember, the truth isn't always the best story, and the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written and researched by Hannah McIntosh, edited by Miki Taylor and Chelsea Wood, Fact Checked by Laurie Siegel, and video editing and sound design by Spencer Howard. I'm your host, Carter Rock.