← Conspiracy Theories
Loading summary
Transcript15 lines
- [00:01]
Carter Roy
It's the 1930s, and two men are in a lab making progress on a new invention. If it works, it could potentially save countless lives. It's called the perfusion pump, a glass device that they hope can pump artificial blood through organs, keeping them alive longer once they're outside the body. Of those two men, one is Nobel Prize winner Dr. Alexis Carella. The other is one of the most famous celebrities of his day, aviator Charles Lindbergh. By 1935, the perfusion pump becomes a reality. And yet this impressive and, well, honestly, kind of surprising notch in Lindbergh's belt gets overshadowed in the pages of history both by his other successes and by the not so pleasant parts of his story. In 1932, Lindbergh's toddler son Charlie is kidnapped and later found dead. Now an emerging theory combines gruesome organ harvesting, eugenics experiments, and a most surprising new kidnapping suspect at the center of the plot. Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. I'm Carter Roy. You can find us here every Wednesday. Check us out on Instagram heconspiracypod and we would love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. The episode includes discussions of kidnapping, murder and child endangerment. Consider this one deciding how and when you'll listen. Stay with us. This episode of Conspiracy Theories is presented by amc. Anne Rice's immortal universe expands with the gritty spy thriller the Secret Order. An enemy has infiltrated the shadowy Talamasca spy agency to find out who is behind it. Secret agent guy Anatol descends into an underworld of magic, immortality and superpower. Watch the Secret order Sundays on AMC.
- [02:19]
Sponsor Voice 1
Learn more@amcplus.com you're deep into your favorite true crime binge. The twists the theories and suddenly hunger hits. Grab a Paleo Valley 100% grass fed beef stick. These aren't your average gas station snacks. They're made from real beef, sourced from regenerative small American family farms. No preservatives, no gluten, no grains, soy or sugar. Just naturally fermented protein that fuels your obsession. Whether you're road tripping, hiking or pulling an all nighter with your favorite case. Choose from five bold flavors. Original jalapeno summer sausage, garlic summer sausage and teriyaki. They're keto, paleo and carnivore Friendly, made to work with your lifestyle, not against it. With over 55 million sticks sold and a 60 day money back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Get 15% on your first order@paleovalley.com Just use code Paleo at checkout.
- [03:25]
Sponsor Voice 2
This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Cool temps are here. Time to level up your wardrobe at Nordstrom. You'll find the best cold weather must haves including thousands of styles under $100. Shop head to toe cozy from faves like Ugg, All Saints, Nordstrom Skims the North Face and more. Plus free shipping, free returns and quick order pickup. Make it easy in stores or online. It's time to go shopping at Nordstrom. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Cool temps are here. Time to level up your wardrobe at Nordstrom. You'll find the best cold weather must haves including thousands of styles under $100. Shop head to toe cozy from faves like Up, Ugg, All Saints, Nordstrom skims the North Face and more. Plus free shipping, free returns and quick order pickup. Make it easy in stores are online. It's time to go shopping at Nordstrom.
- [04:24]
Carter Roy
Over 90 years ago, 20 month old Charles Lindbergh Jr. Was kidnapped from his home in New Jersey, ransomed and 10 weeks later found dead. The most widely accepted version of events is the official one. Bruno Richard Hauptmann kidnapped the child, killed him and extorted his family. But a crime of the century as big as this one comes with a few dissenting theories. And the possibility of a new DNA testing breakthrough could still change the course of this story. More on that later. You may have heard about the Lindbergh kidnapping before, but to refresh your memories, let's catch up on the details. It's the end of the 1920s, the peak of Charles Lindbergh Sr. S fame. America's on the brink of the Great Depression. The US Is reeling from widespread unemployment and debt, kidnappings by gangsters, bootleggers and organized crime. Gangs are on the rise. Amid so much chaos, Col. Charles Lindbergh Sr. Provides a bright spot for Americans. He's a world class aviator and one of the most famous men on the planet. He pioneered the first successful solo, nonstop transatlantic flight and inspired an international interest in air travel. He's beloved, charismatic, successful and everything he does makes headlines. People love to read about his adventures and his personal life. Like when Lindbergh, the country's most eligible bachelor, marries an ambassador's daughter, Anne Morrow. You can imagine the enthusiasm with which the public welcomes their first child in 1930, a blond haired, blue eyed baby boy named after his father, Charles Lindbergh Jr. To prevent any confusion though, I'll call him Charlie. It's March 1st, 1932. A wintry rainy night when Lindbergh pulls into his driveway near Hopewell, New Jersey. Baby Charlie and his mom, Ann, have been home with a cold. They hired their usual nurse, Betty, to take care of them while they're sick. When Lindbergh walks inside, everything appears normal. Quiet. Ann's taking a bath and Betty says Charlie's asleep. So Lindbergh retreats to his study to read. Then around 10pm Betty checks the nursery and Charlie's not in his crib. She looks everywhere for him, but as far as she can tell, the baby's gone. Lindbergh runs into his son's bedroom to check for himself, and that's when he finds an uncle envelope on the windowsill. Inside, there's a message riddled with misspellings. A ransom note. The author claims Charlie is still alive and demands $50,000 in specific bills. It includes these. After two to four days, we will inform you where to deliver the money. The child is in good care. Lindbergh frantically calls the police to file a report. Outside, a homemade wooden ladder with a broken side rail is discovered. It looks like it was used to access Charlie's room on the second floor. In no time, word reaches the press. The next morning, the kidnapping is all anyone can talk about. Newspaper sales in the United states increase by 20%. Americans everywhere can't get enough of the story. And not just because of Lindbergh's fame. Sure, there's a tabloid aspect to it, but there's also a feeling of shared pain. The Lindbergh case represents a much larger struggle. People around the country are finding it difficult to feed and care for their families. Parents have been forced to surrender their children to public systems. Before the end of 1932, over 20,000 kids will end up in New York City orphanages alone. In no small way, Americans know what it's like to have a family ripped apart. And Lindbergh's case has the potential for a silver lining. Charlie could still return home alive and well. So the public clings to that dream. A few days into the investigation, new ransom notes arrive. One's mailed to Lindbergh postmark from Brooklyn, New York. Thirteen more follow. But the kidnapper or extortionist, whoever is writing these letters doesn't want to deal directly with Lindbergh. So an intermediary is chosen. A man named Dr. Condon. Before handing over any ransom money, the two groups need to discuss terms. On March 12, Condon actually meets someone in person. Presumably, it's the author of the ransom notes. Although we don't know for sure. His identity remains unknown, so he's referred to as Cemetery John. Since the meeting takes place at Woodlawn Cemetery in the Bronx, Dr. Condon asks for proof of life. They want evidence that this man really has Charlie. Cemetery John, who speaks with a heavy German accent, agrees. Four days later, a new note arrives, along with a child's sleeping suit. The family identifies it as Charlie's. Once again, Condon meets with Cemetery John, this time to hand over the money. $50,000 in gold certificates. In exchange, the man gives Condon directions to Charlie's hiding place, a boat out near Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. Only it's all a lie. After two days of fruitless searching, investigators are ready to concede that the Lindberghs have been had and Charlie is still missing. Until a few weeks later. It's May 12, 1932. A truck driver's assistant named William Allen pulls over about two miles away from the Lindberghs house. He's not a gawker or paparazzi. He just needs to relieve himself. He walks to a private spot in the bushes, and when he looks down at the ground, he sees something peeking out from a pile of leaves. A baby's foot. It's Charlie, and he's not breathing. The entire nation is devastated. And people start asking questions like if the rich and famous aren't immune to these types of horrors, but who is? The system must be broken if it couldn't protect a baby like Charlie. So what needs to change? Amid all the public outrage, Congress legislates the Federal Kidnapping act in June 1932. It's given the nickname the Lindbergh Law. It upgrades kidnapping to a federal crime anytime kidnappers cross state lines with their victims or. Or anytime a child under the age of 12 goes missing. Any qualifying crime will be handled by federal agents from the Bureau of Investigation, the agency that will eventually become the FBI. The hope is this will eliminate miscommunication between local authorities. An amendment adds that if the victim of a kidnapping is harmed in any way, the abductor can receive the death penalty. Meanwhile, the feds work with New Jersey police to catch Charlie's killer. But it takes two and a half years for the case to finally break. In September 1934, authorities get a call from a bank. Oh. See, unbeknownst to Cemetery John, the serial numbers on all of those gold certificates were recorded, and a list was sent out to banks and retailers. And there's a reason they paid the ransom with those certificates. These bills were supposed to be taken out of circulation. Soon, the thinking went, maybe they'd be easier to spot if they ever turned up. One day, a man in New York uses one of the $10 gold certificates to pay for gas. The attendant thinks it's a little suspicious, since that currency isn't really being used anymore. So he jots down the guy's license plate. It belongs to a German carpenter named Bruno Richard Hauptman, who lives in the Bronx. Technically, the bills could have been circulated in the past two years, and Hauptman could just be really unlucky. Except authorities search his home and discover more of the marked ransom money, $14,000 worth, hidden in Hauptmann's garage. He insists he received the cash from his friend, a fellow immigrant named Isidore Fisch. According to Hauptmann, Fish left a few items with him before traveling to Germany. But Fisch died of tuberculosis before he could return to the States. No one believes Hauptmann, they say the story about Fish is fishy, and Hauptmann can't really explain why he keeps the money hidden away like that. Also, damning, investigators uncover Hauptmann's criminal past. Back in Germany, he'd been arrested multiple times. Once he even used a ladder to break into the mayor's home. He'd actually escaped from prison and stowed away on a boat to get to the United States. More proof tying him to the Lindbergh case comes to light, too. Officials find wood in his attic that appears to match the latter found outside of Charlie's room. A doctor attests he treated Houtman for a leg injury consistent with a fall from a ladder. His old employer says Hauptman quit his job on April 3, 1932, the day after the ransom money was paid. And not one, but eight. Handwriting experts believe Houtman's writing shows similarities to the ransom notes. All the evidence is circumstantial, but there's so much of it that in the court of public opinion, Hauptman is already guilty. A year later, when he goes on trial, crowds gather outside the courtroom, chanting, kill Hauptman. He is swiftly convicted, sentenced to death, and executed. Charles and Anne Lindbergh are satisfied that law enforcement caught the culprit. But as time goes on, members of the public begin to wonder. Specifically, they find it hard to believe Hauptman carried out this crime alone.
- [16:37]
Sponsor Voice 1
So good, so good, so good.
- [16:40]
Sponsor Voice 2
Score holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London and more.
- [16:49]
Carter Roy
Cause there's always something new I'm giving.
- [16:52]
Sponsor Voice 2
All the gifts this year with that.
- [16:53]
Sponsor Voice 1
Extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.
- [16:56]
Sponsor Voice 2
Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you Rack.
- [17:07]
Sponsor Voice 1
This episode is brought to you by Spotify Portal for Backstage. Bet you're wondering. What's Portal? Well, it's an internal developer portal built to improve developer experience and boost productivity. All software components are centralized, documentation is automated and easy to maintain. New projects and components just a few clicks. With your best practices already built in, the think less friction, more innovation. Ready to double your productivity? Try Spotify portal at backstage.Spotify.com.
- [17:38]
Carter Roy
From Armchair Detectives to devoted historians, there's a pretty big cohort of people who think Bruno Richard Hauptman didn't act alone. Even some of the official investigators believed he had accomplices. I mean, this was a majorly risky crime. Lindbergh was one of the most famous men in the country, maybe even the world. All eyes were on him. And the circumstances were risky, too. The kidnapping happened between 8 and 10pm While a house full of adults were inside awake. Not to mention, investigators scoured Hauptman's house, but only found $14,000 to $15,000 worth of the $50,000 ransom. Some of the other gold certificates turned up in circulation over the years. Police just couldn't track it to whoever spent it. But the vast majority of the ransom money was never found, so it kind of seems like Hauptman split the payout. However, the public was demanding justice. It was in the investigator's best interest to close the case quickly, even if that meant justice wasn't fully served. Now, authorities never did name another suspect, but some have been suggested over the years. Remember Isidor Fish, who Houptman said gave him the money? Well, fishy as it sounds, some of Houtman's story was corroborated. Fish really existed. He lived in New York, went back to Germany in 1933, and died there of tuberculosis. Another thing detectives learned about Isidore Fish was that he applied for a passport on May 12, 1932, the same day Charlie's body was found. Then there's a man named John Knoll. He was named as a potential kidnapping accomplice by author Bob Zorn. Zorn's story goes back to 1931, before he was even alive. Back then, his dad, Gene, was a teenager living in the South Bronx, and Gene's neighbor, John Knoll, a German deli worker, was in his 20s. One day, John invited Jean and some friends to a swimming pool along with another German speaking man whose name was Bruno. Years later, Gene told this story to his son Bob. He couldn't recall much of what he overheard John Knoll say that day, but he remembered this. John and Bruno talked about something called Englewood. Gene had no idea what it meant at the time. Later though, he realized Englewood, New Jersey is where the Lindberghs lived most of the time. Back when Charlie was was kidnapped. Gene knew there'd been talk for years that Houtman had accomplices. That led him to a terrible thought. Had his hometown neighbor John Knoll been involved? Could he have been the real Cemetery John, the man who took the ransom money? See, some people think Houtman doesn't really match the descriptions of of Cemetery John. Right after Dr. Condon met the man, he said he looked like a middleweight boxer. So about 5 foot 7 to 5 foot 10 and around 160 pounds. Condon also remembered a high forehead, a pointy chin, and some kind of growth or malformation on his left thumb. According to Bob Zorn, that describes John Knoll down to the left thumb. Haltmann was heavier, stouter, and didn't have a noteworthy thumb. And of course, the man from the cemetery said his name was John. Now, he could have used a pseudonym to protect his true identity. And John was probably the most common male adult name at this time. But it is another coincidence. At any rate, years later, Dr. Condon identified Hauptmann as Cemetery John at trial. We don't really know why, but he left out some of those descriptors he initially gave. By the way, when I heard that this Dr. Condon had stepped in as an intermediary for the Lindberghs, I mean, I figured he was an old family friend or something. Get this. Actually not the case at all. He was a total stranger. Condon had once been a teacher in the Bronx, and it's a known fact that Lindbergh was a hero to him. So when he heard about the ransom notes, Condon placed a newspaper ad volunteering to be the intermediary. And for some reason, everyone was like, yeah, okay, sounds good. You're it. Now, Conan was also kind of an attention seeker, and some historians aren't even sure how reliable he was. It at least seems possible he could have misidentified Hauptmann as Cemetery John, which would point to unidentified co conspirators. Bob Zorn even had experts look at John Knowles handwriting and they found a probable match to the Ransom notes. However, later handwriting analysis came to a different conclusion. A PBS NOVA documentary featured their own expert who found it was not likely that John Knoll wrote those ransom notes. Also noteworthy, Hauptiman actually went by his middle name, Richard. His friends didn't call him Bruno, the name that Gene Zorn overheard at the pool. That could all mean Zorn's theory is wrong and John Knoll is completely innocent. But nova's expert also concluded that Hauptmann's handwriting wasn't a match for the ransom notes either. You know what else is wild? Even though this crime happened in 1932, we might still get more answers. In April 2025, a lawsuit was filed against the state of New Jersey. That's where the crime happened, and it's where all of the archives of the kidnapping and investigation are housed, including the ransom letters. For years, there have been various attempts to have them DNA tested. There's hope that either the stamps or the envelope adhesive will still yield viable samples from saliva. This isn't the first time someone's tried this route. An earlier lawsuit from 2022 went nowhere. In 2013, the PBS Nova documentary asked to perform DNA testing too, and were turned down. The state of New Jersey has their reasons for protecting the envelopes. They don't want these historical artifacts to be harmed. But who knows? Maybe someday we'll know once and for all who sent those ransom notes. And a lot of people think it might not have been Hauptman. That authorities jumped the gun and let one man take the fall for several conspirators. But there's another theory, one backed by a much smaller but vocal group. They think a DNA analysis definitely won't turn up Hauptmann's name. Not because he had co conspirators. They say he was totally innocent and was framed. Hauptman did maintain his innocence to the bitter end. In prison, he wrote to his mother, I simply cannot believe that this state, in order to cancel a case, will break the life of an innocent man in such a way. He insisted the authorities used him so they could offer a satisfying ending to an investigation that dragged on too long. The fact that he was an immigrant and had stowed away and entered the country illegally, well, Hauptmann said that just made him an easy target. In this letter to his mom, he actually wrote out the specifics of his argument. When he was arrested, he was fingerprinted, but his fingerprints weren't found at the Lindbergh home or anywhere else incriminating. Investigators did locate two footprints, and Houtman says they seized all of his shoes. Yet they never introduced them into evidence, which he took as a sign they didn't match. As for the ladder, well, Hauptmann was a professional carpenter, so he had a lot to say. Remember, one part of the ladder had been broken and replaced. A wood expert testified that new part of the ladder matched a piece of wood taken from Hauptmann's attic, as if he'd pulled up an old plank of wood from his house to fix it. To that, Hauptman wrote, if I wanted to make anything at home, I almost always had enough wood lying in my garage. And if not, there is a lumber yard only a block away from my house. He's like, I wouldn't use some old moldy piece of attic. How dare they? I'm a professional. He seemed offended that they thought he'd make this latter, which apparently wasn't up to his standards. He also argued if he knew the gold certificates were ransom money from the crime of the century, he never would have used them. And he implies the investigators had the opportunity to plant evidence in his house. After he was arrested, his wife and son moved out, allowing police to set up shop shop there. Hauptman said some of the evidence they claim they found there wasn't left by him. A few modern researchers have backed Houptman's claims of innocence, like former Judge Lisa Perlman, the author of the Lindbergh Kidnapping Suspect One, the Man who Got Away. She was a longtime presiding judge of the California State Bar Court. She's also written about the trial of Huey Newton, the co founder of the Black Panther Party, accused of murdering a white police officer. Her research into sensational racially charged court cases led her to Hauptmann. His story intrigued her enough that she reviewed all of his files. And she concluded that Hauptmann didn't get a fair trial. For one thing, there was something like 90,000 pages of documents the prosecution never turned over to the defense. And Houtman's own lawyer was a huge Lindbergh fan. He barely met with his client leading up to the trial. According to Perelman, the lawyer was reportedly overheard saying he hoped Houptman got the death penalty. But Judge Perlman's argument really focuses on the question of how and when Charlie died. And the prosecution did not, in her estimation, prove when, why and how the crime happened. Her theory is Hauptman was a scapegoat. The real mastermind was an insider, someone who took charge of the investigation early on. Charles Lindbergh Sr. Himself.
- [29:57]
Sponsor Voice 2
This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom oh, what fun. Nordstrom has tons of gifts under $100 for all your favorite people all in one place. Like beauty and grooming sets, Ugg gifts, jewelry and toys. Need ideas? Check out gifts from Ugg, Skims, Diptyque, Free People, Stanley and more. Plus explore their amazing gift shop in stores and online. Free gift finding help, free shipping and order pickup. Make it all easy at Nordstrom.
- [30:26]
Sponsor Voice 1
Hi, it's Eva Longoria. And let's be real. After 40, we should ask for more from our skincare. I swear by Revitalift Triple Power Moisturizer by l' Oreal Paris. With vitamin C pro, retinol and hyaluronic acid. It reduces my wrinkles, firms and brightens. And it's not a procedure, it's just a hardworking moisturizer. Revitalift Triple Power Moisturizer by l' Oreal Paris. Grab it today in fragrance, free or with SPF 30. Available at your local Walmart.
- [30:59]
Carter Roy
One day after the kidnapping, Charles Lindbergh Sr. The famous aviator, watched the local New Jersey police search for his son Charlie. But it wasn't just the police looking. Because of Lindbergh's global fame, almost every government organization in America got involved, from the Boy Scouts to the Bureau of Internal Revenue, the agency in charge of collecting taxes. Despite the support, official search efforts were disorganized from the start. Law enforcement didn't have a standard protocol for how to look for a missing person or negotiate with a kidnapper. The FBI didn't really exist in their modern form yet. It was basically the Wild West. Everyone was sort of winging it. So when night fell on March 2, 1932, without results, Lindbergh asked to take over the investigation. I'm not kidding. A pilot and the father of the kidnapped baby, a victim and a potential suspect at this point told officials he should be in charge of the case. And the cops let him do it. I guess the logic went, if he can fly around the world, he can find his son. At that point, New Jersey state troopers were mostly used to writing speeding tickets. Officials actually depended on Lindbergh's confidence to lead the way. Now, I don't want to make it sound like he was the only person in charge, but he did have significant influence over the investigation. And he didn't share all of his information with officials. Crucial details like the ransom notes or communications with Cemetery John. It's been a long held theory that somebody on the inside helped orchestrate the kidnapping. Here's why. The house near Hopewell, New Jersey, where the crime took place Was being renovated. The Lindberghs weren't living there full time yet. Normally they stayed in Inglewood and drove out to Hopewell on the weekends. The kidnapping happened on a Tuesday night. The very first Tuesday night they'd ever spent at the Hopewell house. The question is, how did a kidnapper know the Lindberghs would be there? Detectives interviewed all of the Lindbergh's employees, But got nowhere. According to former judge Lisa Perlman, that's because they were talking to the wrong insider. And get ready, because this is about to go in a really wild direction. Judge Perlman suggests the real mastermind behind the kidnapping was Charles Lindbergh. Okay, here's how she got there. Her theory hinges on the fact that Lindbergh was a eugenicist. And this is true. He did support the ideology that certain populations were inferior. Eugenicists look down on races, classes, and physical or mental traits they deem undesirable. They believe these traits can be removed from the gene pool with selective breeding. And during the 1920s, these weren't exactly fringe beliefs. But Lindbergh wasn't just a believer. He actually befriended and worked with a leader in eugenics, Dr. Alexis Carell. Karel already had a long and successful career behind him. He was a pioneer in heart surgery, and in 1912 became the youngest surgeon ever to win the Nobel prize in medicine. Later on, he focused on organ transplants. They may be fairly common today, but in the 30s, they'd never been successfully done. Correll knew perfecting transplants would save lives, but there were challenges. Namely keeping organs viable long enough to transplant. He needed a device to keep them from becoming necrotic. He needed someone with an engineer's mind, like Lindbergh. Lindbergh was initially driven by the fact that his sister in law developed a heart problem. He'd been told there was nothing doctors could really do to help, and he just didn't accept that. So together, Lindbergh and Carrel worked on the profusion pump we mentioned at the beginning of the episode. A special device that would keep harvested organs oxygenated. Wow. Sounds heroic, right? Well, yes, except the problem was Correl believed that once they perfected these life saving techniques, they should only be used on white people. And they hoped it would help their race become immortal through medicine. Here's where Judge Perlman's theory comes in. She suggests Charlie was operated on with Lindbergh's knowledge and that he died as a result of a medical experiment and the whole kidnapping and investigation was a cover up. Okay, let me back up there has been some suspicion and debate over Charlie's health during his short life. His pediatrician noted that he couldn't stand straight. Now, that's a symptom of rickets, a condition caused by a vitamin D or calcium deficiency. It can make the bones soft and cause malformations. Charlie was being treated with vitamins. It's just not clear how severe his condition was or if he had rickets at all. Another doctor's note mentions an open fontanelle, also known as the soft spot on a baby's skull. That should have closed already. We also know Lindbergh ordered the child's remains to be cremated just one day after Charlie was recovered, despite investigators asking for more time to examine it. See, when his body was found 10 weeks after the kidnapping, it was badly decomposed. He had a fracture on one side of his skull, and on the other, a hole. So it was determined that he was killed by a blow to the head. Judge Perlman doesn't think that's what happened. She says according to the case files she read, some of the child's organs were missing. Police chalked it up to wild animals. But Perelman asks, why weren't more of the body parts scattered then? She also notes Charlie was found wearing two T shirts. The medical reports noted the shirts had no scratch marks, holes, or even blood on them, Just some fraying on the edges. And Perlman makes a great point here. How could animals scavenge the body without destroying the shirts, without even getting blood on them? At the very least, it sounds like she could have debunked the official theory about wild animals. So if they didn't do this, who did? Perlman offers this explanation. Lindbergh hired kidnappers to take Charlie from the house and deliver him to Dr. Carrel's lab, where he was used as a guinea pig in organ harvesting experiments. In the process, she thinks he died. But how could they pull off such an unthinkable crime? Judge Perlman suggests if Charlie really did have severe medical issues, a eugenicist would see him as expendable, because a hallmark of eugenics is that intellectual and physical disabilities are undesirable. She's even found correspondence sent to Karel, which she argues insinuates he used subjects with disabilities. But as for Lindbergh, I mean, would he really allow Karel to operate on his firstborn son? Now, to be clear, that is her theory, and it's not a widespread theory. Rutgers historian Lloyd Gardner also believes Lindbergh was in on the kidnapping, but not because he wanted to operate on Charlie rather, he wanted his son hidden away in an institution, a common practice at the time. A lot of experts disagree with the Lindbergh did it angle wholeheartedly. FBI criminal profiler John Douglas doesn't believe he was a killer. Nor does he buy that Lindbergh would trust someone else to pull off such a risky plot because he liked to be in control. Douglas thinks it's more likely that another insider was involved. Violet Sharp, a housemaid employed by Lindbergh's in laws. She was among the staff members questioned by police twice. She changed her story the second time. The third time they showed up to speak with her, Violet Sharp went upstairs and poisoned herself. Douglas posits maybe she was only accidentally involved. Maybe she offhandedly told somebody where the Lindberghs would be that night, never intending for Charlie to get hurt. To escape the media frenzy, the Lindberghs spent the next three years in Europe. This was during the lead up to the Second World War. And Lindbergh became even more engrossed in the master race ideology touted by the Nazis. In 1941, he gave a pro isolationist speech that was met with outrage. You might have heard a snippet a few weeks ago in our episode on the secret influence campaign run by MI6. That speech and other revelations tarnished Lindbergh's reputation. Years later, we also learned he'd secretly fathered seven children in Germany under an assumed name and made the family swear never to reveal the truth. They came forward after he died. Maybe he was just unfaithful. A womanizer. Lloyd Gardner, the Rutgers historian, says Lindbergh might have wanted to father as many children as possible, to spread his elite genes. There's no doubt Lindbergh was problematic. But does that make him a killer of his own kid? I have a really hard time believing that could be the case. On the other hand, we've learned a lot of shocking information since he made his iconic flight across the Atlantic. Back then, I bet nobody knew Lucky Lindy would father seven secret children or work on an experiment designed to make white people live forever. But it seems a lot more likely that the investigation made mistakes and maybe let some co conspirators go free. I mean, coordinated kidnapping investigations didn't exist at that time. But this story doesn't necessarily have an end. Yet. The parties involved in that lawsuit over the envelope DNA might find a way to work together. And who knows, maybe we'll learn once and for all whether or not Hauptmann acted alone. Lindbergh and Karel's perfusion pump eventually led to the game changing Heart Lung Machine. It allows doctors to perform heart and lung transplants, heart valve surgeries and aneurysm surgeries. Life saving procedures that everyone has access to. Thank you for watching Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on instagram @the conspiracypod and if you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Among other sources, we found the Nova documentary who Killed Lindbergh's Baby? As well as Judge Lisa Perlman's book Suspect One, the Man who Got Away. Extremely helpful to our research. Until next time. Remember, the truth isn't always the best story and the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written and researched by Mallory Cara and Miki Taylor, edited by Maggie Admire and Connor Sampson Fact checked by Sophie Kemp and Anya Barely and Engineered Video edited and sound designed by Alex Button. I'm your host, Carter Roy. Hey. New to TikTok. Here's a gift just for you. Join TikTok today and claim your $20 no minimum spend voucher completely free. Simply download the TikTok app, search for Get Tik that's G E T T I K and your voucher will be ready to use right away. Spend it freely on TikTok. Shop fashion, gadgets, beauty and more. Don't wait. Download TikTok today and grab your $20 voucher now.