← Construction Leaders Podcast
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- [00:03]
Nick Soto
Welcome to the first episode on season four's Construction Leaders Podcast. This season we have plenty in store as we continue to dive into topics that revolve around improving the built environment and developing and retaining the workforce and perceptions from around the construction industry. In this episode, we're going to jump right into the deep end of the workforce conversation and talk to an organization making a real impact on the construction industry. Today, we're excited to introduce you to Fortitude Advisory, a non profit organization founded in 2021 by 14 global executives from architecture, engineering and construction and real estate. Fortitude is dedicated to the mentorship and education, particularly for soon to be college graduates, junior career professionals and transitioning military personnel with a mission to develop the next generation of leaders. Through their work, they're not just opening doors to the built environment, they're fostering personal, personal growth in creating meaningful partnerships and paving the way for future success in our industry. To help us understand how Fortitude is relevant to construction management practitioners, we've asked the President, Tom Gannon, CMA Fellow Past Board of Director and CMCI Board of Governors Chair, Rahul ILH and CCM from stv, and Emma Davies, a Director from Atkins Realis, to join us. Welcome to the podcast.
- [01:25]
Tom Gannon
Thank you.
- [01:26]
Emma Davies
Thank you.
- [01:27]
Nick Soto
So Raoul, you and I go way back, so I know a lot about your background, but so I want to start with Emma. Why don't you, Emma, tell us a little bit about yourself then Tom and then Raoul.
- [01:35]
Emma Davies
Sure. Thanks Nick, thank you very much for asking us to join you today. So, yes, as you say, I'm the director of Atkins Realis. I'm based in the UK and my office base is London. I've worked in the real estate industry now for over 30 years. A number of those years were spent working for cbre, my previous employer before I joined Atkins Realis five years ago. But I started my career actually working for a large firm of architects. Having graduated in land management, I specialised in planning and development and I went to work for an architectural practice which in those days they led a lot of the project management's major projects on site. Project management wasn't developed so much as a separate sort of career route going back in all of that time ago. And it's really over the last sort of 20 years and it's really grown very much more as a separate route with a separate degree course. But my degree in land management was really valuable because it gave me such a wide insight into the real estate industry. I covered everything from planning to development to valuation to construction. So my career has spanned all of those stages of the construction world if you like. But nowadays I really concentrate on the early stages of a project from inception through to planning, which in the UK has been increasingly complex over the last few years. But it also means I get involved in really large master plans and projects which is very rewarding and really exciting. I cover all sectors, residential, commercial, hospitals, community projects, etc. So I've got a really good wide experience and bring that to the Fortitude route.
- [03:21]
Tom Gannon
Tom thank you Nick. My background is in real estate and construction development. Like Emma, I have over 30 years of experience in the overall industry and I've had the good fortune of working in multiple market segments both nationally and internationally. From a market segment standpoint, I've had the privilege of working in the commercial sector, education, hospitality, health care as well as some others. I started my career initially after coming out of the armed forces which I went into right after university with Turner Construction in New York City. From there I spent some time with McDonald's Corporation doing fast food development and from there I went on to start leading some major programs where I spent 10 years running a national educational program here in the United States where an entity called Edison Schools, now known as Edison Learning, where we opened over 100 schools and put in place over 3 million square feet of educational space across the United States. From there I have had the privilege and honor, which is a lot of it has been the basis for starting fortitude of working internationally where I've run four different global design and construction programs for a major multinational organization such as American Express to startups as Whittle School and Studios to hyper growth startups as we work and from there most recently I was with an organization called Avenues, the World School where the business plan was to create a global network of high end private schools around the world. But given the recent transition of that organization and the sale of it, I've now transitioned and I'm working for PMA which is Project Management Advisory here in the United States, which is a national firm with about 200 individuals focused in on real estate and construction advisory in all market segments, basically acting as an extension of the owner staff augmentation, project management, program management, owner's representation, etc.
- [05:09]
Rahul ILH
Thanks Tom Raul yes, good morning Nick, and thanks. Longtime member of CMAA actually 36 years, believe it or not though having started in New York and although I reside now in Delaware and do get to New York on occasion, I've always enjoyed my time with cmaa. I'm very passionate about the industry, having been Being a professional civil engineer as well as certified construction manager, I got involved early with the New York chapter. I rose to become president of the chapter back in 98 and then I sat on the National Board of directors for CMAA from 2003 to 2009. After passing my CCM in 2015, I joined the Board of Governors and was there for six years, rising to chairman in 2023. So I've had a long history. I've known Nick a very long time, very passionate, as I said, about this industry. Not only just this industry, but mentoring as you'll hear throughout this podcast. And the ability that I now have with my experiences to work with younger generation is very important to me. I've also been fortunate to work with two very good companies, Parsons, very large multinational firm and STB who I'm currently with. Though they've given me the opportunity to grow within CMAA as well as the company, but have always supported, have been big supporters of CMAA and that I welcome and thank them.
- [06:26]
Nick Soto
You failed to mention that you're also a CMA fellow. You earned that privilege a few years ago and that is our highest honor. So congratulations to you.
- [06:34]
Rahul ILH
Thank you.
- [06:34]
Nick Soto
I want to know what inspired the creation of Fortitude and how did the fundraising and the funding of the team come together to establish this global nonprofit?
- [06:43]
Tom Gannon
Well, Nick, I'll answer the last question first. The fundraising today has been all self funded. Given the Fortitude members, what inspired this team to come together is is really three core principles. First, the opportunity to pay it forward, along with a strong sense of gratitude. I know for me personally, I'm sure Emma and Raul would agree. We would never have been able to do what we've done in our careers if it wasn't for the people that have lifted us up along the way. Secondly, a passion for mentoring and coaching. As we started to talk about Fortitude and the opportunity to do this, everybody on this team has been doing some type of mentoring, coaching or networking throughout their career. And it's something that folks again, along with the spirit of paying it forward and just giving back. And then finally, we believe there's a critical need for this in the industry. We believe the built environment is a complex maze of opportunities and junior level professionals. It's very difficult for someone coming out of university to really understand the overwhelming number of opportunities that are available. Of course there's the traditional work for an architectural firm, work for an engineering firm, work for a construction firm, but these, all these other opportunities that exist out there that the built environment is connected to and so how this team came together is myself and actually two other folks sat down and we were talking about these kind of key criteria that we liked and we said, hey, there's really an opportunity here to leverage global diversity and build something unique. And as we look at the team members, this has actually been one aspect of this program, Nick, that's been really rewarding for me. It's allowed me to reach back early in my career and reach out to individuals like Raul, who we worked together over 20 years ago, and pull the team together. Emma and I, for example, worked on a key project in Brighton, England, a 350,000 square foot call center data center. And that's where Emma and I got to know each other. So the collective team that you'll see around the world, which now spans six continents and 11 countries, is individuals that we've all worked together in some form or fashion. So as a result of that, as they always say, if you love what you do, it's not really work. And so this has been really an enjoyable endeavor that we've all stepped into. Wonderful.
- [08:52]
Carly Trout
So I believe you had a recent global cohort program, Emma, I'm wondering if you could walk us through the format of that program and sort of the overall approach for it. And a follow up question to that is just if there are some success stories from that program that you could share with our listeners.
- [09:08]
Emma Davies
Yeah, sure, Carly. First of all, we ask people to apply to join the cohort and we also, through our membership, there's people that we know, we also approach universities and encourage members of those organisations to apply. And once those applications are in, they then get assessed by members of the cohort and then we accept, depending on the number of applicants we have and that we have on offer for that particular year within the cohort, we accept a certain number of applicants and then once those applicants are through, we start the engagement process and each part is accepted, is assigned a mentor under the program. And there's a number of sessions which I'll let also Raoul and Tom talk a bit about in terms of they have one to one sessions with their mentor throughout the program. But we also have a lot of other events during the cohort as well that are group events, if you like, and their talks and discussions. We, for example, this year two of my colleagues from Atkins Realis who are graduates within the team, did a presentation on bringing your best self to work because they had just started working and so we felt that actually their experiences would be really good for the cohort members because they had just gone through that process of starting the working world and what it was like and making sure that you bring your true self to work and how you get over some of those more difficult conversations that when you first start work that you just never thought would happen, really. And how do I deal with this if somebody's being difficult with me, or how do I deal with a problem, etc. So they were some really good. And we also had discussions as a wider group about our careers and how we developed. There's a number of engagement sessions and there's a program that's published on a weekly basis. And then we have a process review and alignment whereby each of the mentors go through the plan with the person that they're looking after, their mentoring to develop their plan for moving forward, and then they exit, if you like that particular cohort. But then of course, they are always a member of Fortitude and there's an alumni network that they're a part of. And there's also kind of informal conversations that happen post the closing of that particular cohort sessions. For example, I recently joined up with a member from Trent University who had been part of the cohort because I'm based in the UK and she's based in the uk, and we was chatting about opportunities for her in the next stage because I was talking about opportunities in the eu. So there's lots of things like that. And I think what I'll perhaps do is get sort of Tom and Rao to talk also about some of the outputs. But the one thing that I wanted to pick up, and this is why I think it's good to have a group of people on the Fortitude Cohort from across the world and from different disciplines, because I think, Nick, as you rightly said in your introduction, is that working in real estate now isn't just about being an engineer or an architect and et cetera, or a contractor. It's actually often about making places where people are going to live and work. And we mustn't forget the human side of that. So what's great about, I think, the Fortitude Cohort is that there's very much a human feel to it. We talk about how it feels to start working, how some of those more touchy feely things, how you're going to work, what you yourself want to get out of it. Because at the end of the day, you don't just want to build a building. You're sometimes building somebody's home or somebody's workplace. So it's actually building that passion and for me, that's an essential path of the mentorship through the cohort is to really get people to feel passionate about what they do.
- [13:02]
Carly Trout
And I think that's a critical piece for younger generations. They want to feel that connection to their profession and what they do. I think that's really important.
- [13:09]
Emma Davies
It's so important. My role now in Atkins reality is the UK lead for regeneration. So I spend more time talking to people about building communities as opposed to about building buildings, because we don't build a building. A building is only important for the community that either lives or works in it.
- [13:28]
Carly Trout
So it does seem like there are more professional development programs coming up in the industry. But Raul, I was going to ask you why you think this mentorship and educational approach that Fortitude is taking is different from traditional professional development programs.
- [13:44]
Rahul ILH
Yes, Carl, I was excited to reconnect with Tom. We've been in contact on and off for the last 10, 15 years after I completed two of the projects when I was with Edison Schools. But when you have a global perspective, sometimes I guess even the New Yorker I am, we think everything revolves around New York, which really isn't true. There's just so much more outside in the United States, but globally, this really opened up my eyes because just even listening to some of the other advisors open minds, some of the different programs that are in effect, the construction they do on, the different methods, they're pretty exciting. So when you have an opportunity to meet and mentor students from around the world, you give them your perspective. You get to tell them how important like an association like CMAA is and the importance of joining an association, how it can not only just help your career, but just help others. Again, as Tom said, paying you forward. Although I have mentored many people, both informally and formally in the US over my 35 plus years in the industry, by now joining Fortitude Advisors, I now have a more global perspective. But I can also talk to students and young professionals in other countries and they can get to hear from me and I get to hear from them. Again. It's always a two way street. You learn from them and they learn from you. To me, that's a successful mentoring opportunity. So again, as I said, Fortitude Advisories has opened up the world for me as a mentor.
- [15:07]
Nick Soto
Let's take a quick break and hear from our sponsor.
- [15:12]
Carly Trout
Hello, I am Kara Lentz, National Construction Services Practice Leader for hntb. On behalf of my colleagues at hntb, I am excited to continue our partnership with CMAA as a strategic sponsor and support great conversations like this podcast at hntb, we work alongside our clients to help develop the right strategies and solutions that deliver the extraordinary to shape the future of mobility. We provide a diverse, engaging, respectful and inclusive environment for individuals and teams to grow and thrive each and every day. We are working with our local communities to better connect people and places, expand opportunity, and in turn create a brighter future for the places that we call home. Thank you.
- [16:09]
Tom Gannon
Tom.
- [16:09]
Nick Soto
We heard Raul talk a lot about putting out that message from a leadership standpoint. So we have a lot of those folks listening to this podcast. We also have the reverse side, so we have the college students, the soon to be graduates, the junior career professionals, and even some military listening to this. How would you say Fortitude helps prepare them for the built environment?
- [16:31]
Tom Gannon
That's a great question, Nick. Fortitude is really early in its life cycle right now. And we've launched our first program this year, the Global Cohort Program. The plan is to grow this incrementally by adding one to two programs per year over the next three to five years, but specifically within those specific categories. Nick, the college students, we look to help them have a better understanding of the built environment before they leave college. So many times an individual is looking for a job and not really focused in on a career path coming out of university, and there's a lot of stress and there's a lot of anxiety. I have to get that first job and not really thinking, hey, what is that right? First job and how does that look like long term? We look to Fortitudes, given the seniority and the experience of this team, to be able to help bridge that, you know, college early career professional. And we think early career professionals, we're thinking folks that have been in the industry one to five years. And so often individuals jump into a job not realizing what that might be or what might that look like for their career. For example, about two years ago, I had a young man was introduced to me through a mutual contact that was a civil engineer up in Massachusetts, and he was working really on civil engineering infrastructure. And he tom, I really like to get into real estate development. Can you help me with that? And so we had a series of coaching sessions back and forth, and he was actually really a pleasure to work with because he was the kind of individual that when you talk to you gave him some guidance. And he went away and ran with it and came back with you and hey, Tom, I did this and this. He came back after those series and he says, tom, and I realized this early on in the conversation was going to Be really difficult for him just to go from civil engineering infrastructure to go to a real estate developer. But I wanted to help him walk to his own solution. And he came back after three to four sessions. He says, tom, I realized I have to get some experience with a construction company. His name is John. I said, john, you're absolutely right. And so he did. He went out and he landed an opportunity with a construction company. But understanding those kind of connective points to get to the job that you want and that career paths are long term endeavors is really, really essential. It's one thing to have the aspiration, but understanding the roadmap and the path to get there is really where fortitude can help out from a military perspective. There's multiple folks on this team that have some type of military background. And so myself, Lou Zecca, Tom Lamson, believe there's probably one or two others. And we realize the degree of difficulty oftentimes coming out of the armed forces that a lot of employers don't understand. The transferable skills, specifically the leadership skills, the fundamentals that military personnel bring to the table, dependability, integrity, enthusiasm. Key core traits that are really essential for success in any profession. And there's a lot of programs out there, we realize that. But we realize also that there's a lot of transferable skills. For me, for example, when I came, I was a combat engineer officer in the Marine Corps wasn't necessarily transferable construction standpoint, because combat engineering, the Marine Corps is focused more on demolitions as opposed to building. But you had the leadership skills and the organization that I went to appreciate that and respected that and put me in at a level as if I would be if I was with them for four years to be. We're looking to help individuals to understand that and help them. So we always viewed fortune very careful to say this is not a job placement organization. This is a networking, understanding, mentoring, coaching, facilitating and we believe through that we can help those three categories.
- [19:51]
Emma Davies
But I just add to that as well is that the point about this helping you focus on a personal development plan is really important, I think because I think the point you make, Tom, is that leaving university or college, you're often or armed forces, you're focused on getting the next job and to what the next stages and perhaps not setting down a plan, but actually setting down a plan, a personal development plan for yourself is really important, I think. And that plan can change and it will change and there's lots of things that will change it over time. But just having that plan and setting it down is a great help and it also makes you more valuable, I think to the workforce because you have a plan, you're going to somebody and saying this is what my plan is. Now it could be that they offer you something which doesn't quite fit with that plan plan, but the plan is flexible enough to be able to work around that. But what it does is that you show that you put some real thought into the direction that your career wants to go in. And I think having this sort of organization where it helps you focus your own time on that is really important.
- [20:59]
Nick Soto
I want to make sure I'm understanding this right because it sounds like to me that Fortitude is almost like a coaching network. Am I hearing that correctly tomorrow?
- [21:07]
Tom Gannon
Yes, that is definitely one aspect. At the end of the day, the mission of Fortitude is help support developing a next generation industry leader in architectural engineering construction by leveraging global diversity. What we designed deliberately is the initial stages is coaching, mentoring, networking, but the long term vision is to create a menu of services that then basically cater to mid and senior level professionals as well.
- [21:31]
Carly Trout
From my understanding, Fortitude is also working with and being advised by universities around the world. So I'm just curious Raul, if you could tell us how that collaboration is taking place to enhance programs and provide value to participants.
- [21:45]
Rahul ILH
For the past three years I've been working with Dr. Ellen Lester of the University of Pennsylvania Technology and we provided seminars or we'll do in the future eventually. But I was always interested in her because she's been a good friend. She reached out to me when she was doing her PhD program overseas. She interviewed me as a subject matter expert on mentoring and what was able to. I was able to learn more about our university by going and visiting twice, talking to students participating in construction days, talking about my experience, talking about how I've been involved with CMAA and the value of a professional association. So when it came time, when I linked up with Tom again last year when we talked about to what Fortitude was also looking was to collaborate with a number of universities around the world. I've been fortunate to know a number of, I guess leaders in the university system throughout the US and have close relationships with them. So there's a number of them, particularly Dr. Ellen Lester and her firm as well as Columbia University, George Mason Pratt University that I wanted to bring to Fortitude Advisory. But I also was cognizant of the fact that this is also a global reach and that I told Tom, I said yes, I know a lot of people. However, I will give you names and establish contacts with universities that I know. But really understanding the fact that we have to be more global, we have to be more inclusive. And Tom has those contacts through the global advisors at Fortitude that he can reach out to different universities because they, again, bring a different perspective. And again, just listening to them and representatives from those firms and students in those, you get to learn how they're doing construction engineering and construction management and how they are building there. Again, my relationships, again, with Dr. Ellen Lester and others have proven to be successful, and she will be more involved as we go forward with them.
- [23:39]
Tom Gannon
If I may just add onto that, we do see the university and college network as really a key constituent, you know, and as part of Fortitude going forward. And so we've working to leverage this network, one, you know, to have greater access to a student pool that might be interested in some of our offerings. But then, two, from a leadership perspective, many thanks to Raul and the rest of the Fortitude team. If you look at the list that we have, it's pretty diverse, and that comes from the network that we have. But the leadership of those universities, we see them as providing valuable insight on what's needed and what we're offering so that we have alignment on that. And so what we did last year when we first launched this, we explained to these universities and presented to them our materials and what we were thinking. They gave us some really good insight. And we're now in the process of setting up round two of these conversations with these universities around the world to show them, hey, this is the cohort that we just ran. This is the program. We're going to be getting ready to run this again, the second time in January of 25. This is a new program we're adding. What do you think about it? So we're really looking to collaborate, you know, with them and get their understanding and. And their feedback on what we're doing. And we see that as a key element as far as building this overall Fortitude Network.
- [24:54]
Nick Soto
Speaking of building the Fortitude Network and building Fortitude, Emma, can you tell us how the listeners of the podcast can get involved or contribute?
- [25:04]
Emma Davies
Yes, absolutely. There's a number of ways they can do that. On our website, so fortitude advisory.org there's a contact sheet so you can do that, and that comes straight through to all of us. And we can then put you in touch with somebody, perhaps in your country or we think aligned to your particular area of interest, and get somebody to talk to you about how you can become a part of the Cohort program. You could also obviously, perhaps contact through yourselves, put in contact with any one of us as well, who can help people. We have also direct connections with a number of universities, as Thomas pointed out, and therefore through those universities they can also apply. We're trying to strengthen that network all of the time as well. And all of us who are Fortitude members are on LinkedIn. We have a LinkedIn page and we all have connections on our own LinkedIn pages as well. So you can contact us direct through LinkedIn. And we're always happy to offer some advice about how to join the program or what to tell you more about the program and also local Fortitude members in your area as well if you want to talk to them.
- [26:15]
Carly Trout
We have time for just one last question and I'm going to direct it to you. Tom, going to ask if you could look ahead and what Fortitude's long term goals are and how you envision the organization evolving maybe over the next five years or so.
- [26:29]
Tom Gannon
That's a great question, Carly, and thanks for asking. I mean, it's really always a great opportunity to present the long term vision. Right now it is strictly 100% volunteer run organization, self funded. As we build this program, we're looking to, at a point in time we haven't set a specific marker, but to start some type of fundraising capital campaign five years from now. I see us having paid staff, I see us having programs that, as I mentioned earlier, that potentially cater to both mid and senior level professionals. One of the key initiatives that we're taking a look at and we're starting to develop the framework for it is the 42 Leadership Academy. And so we believe we have such a unique background of individuals. If you look at the diversity on our team, it's not just geographical, it's not just profession, it's not just ethnicity, it's not just races, it's all of these and above. It's really such a powerful thing. It's really something that's given me such great joy to be a part of this because having had the opportunity to work internationally for a large part of my career, really see that this multicultural diversity really always ends in a better product. But as we think about that and we think about the experiences of the individuals, think forward to having, you know, seminar programs. And we have an individual on the program that has a very unique background. He was a designer with a very prestigious design firm and then became a construction lawyer. We have the ability internally to develop the content from a wide variety of ranges from construction management, to project management, to engineering, to law, to some real estate, etc. And we have a series of entrepreneurs, we have individuals that have started their own companies, individuals that work for small, medium and large corporations. But we see Fortitude five years from now, again being more mature brand. We are looking to create a very premium level boutique brand and grow it slowly and hence the notion of growing it one program at a time per year, possibly two. And so this year we had a lot of success with what I guess what I would refer to as our proof of concept, which was our. And that. Just want to elaborate a little bit further on that, Carly, that program and you look at the diversity on that. We had eight members on that. We had a young man from Sydney, Australia, we had a young man from Taiwan, we had a young lady from the uk. We had two individuals, young man and young woman from New Delhi, India. We had a young lady from Sao Paulo, we had a young man from New York, we had a young man from Missouri. All participate in this. And you think about that and the opportunities. And I think back on my career, I didn't really start building my global network and I think Emma and Raul probably agree with this until I was much more senior in my career. But the ability to start developing a global network on a peer to peer basis early in your career, at the same time developing network with senior advisors that have global experiences early in your career can really be a very powerful. We see Fortitude continuing to grow organically. We did some satisfaction surveys after this cohort and it was very strong. And we see these members that were part of that cohort coming back and contributing. We've already gotten quite a bit of offers to come back and support Fortitude in some way or some fashion. Again, I'll close by saying five years from now we're going to have a suite of programs that's going to cater to the the overall life cycle of someone's career. Because if our mission is to create the next generation industry leader, we have to be sensitive that we have programs for mid and senior level professionals as well, not just junior levels. But we see that with people going through and maintaining and then supporting the Fortitude brand through the various offerings.
- [30:02]
Carly Trout
That's great. I really want to thank you all for joining us today. It was a lot of good information. We probably could have gone twice as long, but we really appreciate the work that you're doing for the workforce. And Raul, Emma, Tom, really thank you for joining the podcast today.
- [30:17]
Rahul ILH
Thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it.
- [30:19]
Carly Trout
And as mentioned for those who would like to learn more about the great work they're doing, they can visit www.fortitudeadvisory.org. on the next episode of the Construction Leaders Podcast, we'll be joined by Jonathan Cinelli, who has spent decades in the construction industry leading teams and managing major projects. Jonathan now teaches human centric leadership to create healthier, more effective workplaces, and he'll be here to share his experiences on the impact of transactional and toxic workplace cultures. As always, be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get all the notifications for this upcoming season, and you can follow us on social media. Maahq Also, we'd love for you to leave a review with your thoughts on this episode and let us know what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes. On behalf of cmaa, I'm Carly Trout with Nick Soto. Thanks for listening.