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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to season three, episode five of CMAA's Construction Leaders podcast. Have you ever wondered why some people are getting promoted faster than you, make more money than you, perhaps getting an unfair advantage over everyone else? What are you missing? Are you lacking the skills that are essential and could be directly impacting your career growth? Industry executives know that construction management is more than just overseeing building sites and schedules. It's about leading with vision, communication and adaptability. Whether you're a seasoned professional or aspiring to step into a leadership role, there are many ways to enhance your skills and stay ahead of the curve in the ever evolving construction industry. From effective communication techniques to crisis management and team motivation, there are books, courses, training and of course podcasts available for everything. In this episode, we're going to talk to somebody who literally authored the answers to those questions. So if you think you're ready to take your construction management career to the next level and become a leader who drives success and inspire others, then stay tuned in because this 30 year construction management executive is part of an expert, dynamic, inspirational leader of complex design build management with business development experience as both corporate executive and entrepreneur in the commercial construction industry and related tech spaces. Her name is Cody Fournier. Cody is not just any leader, she is a dynamic, inspirational trailblazer with a wealth of experience in the construction industry and her journey began in 1991 as a field engineer with Turner Construction Company in Miami where she excelled through the various superintendents, cost scheduling, controls, estimating and pre construction roles. Moving on to the owner side, she then served as the National Manager of the Construction Administration for Blockbuster Video during the height of their store development where the chain was averaging one new store every 14 hours and by age 29 Cody was named Vice President of Business Development for Miller Construction Co. And during her tenure with Miller, Cody won numerous awards including South Florida's Businesswoman of the Year, the Top 40 Under 40 Award and Fast Track Magazine's Movers and Shakers Award. Cody would later then go on to launch a tech startup called job site123.com which originated as US commercial construction industry's first open access, search and qualify engine. This would morph into profiling suite called Proview for the Blue Book Construction Network or thebluebook.com as an insightful, thought provoking management consultant. Speaker Coty has become a best selling author since her first publication which was titled Inside Commercial Construction MVPs. We've asked Cody to join us and share some of her wisdom with us. So Cody, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:53]
B
Hello. Thank you so much for Having me. I'm looking forward to it.
- [02:58]
A
I want to start by diving right into your unique career path in the CM industry, which I think can be summed up in one world as well rounded. I know you graduated with a CM degree from Michigan State University, which our CEO and president is a big fan of. So you've already won brownie points there and you were first hired as a field engineer with Turner. But can you take it from there and walk us through some of your most important career decisions and also share any lessons learned along the way to help emerging cms to seek the most beneficial experiences?
- [03:32]
B
Absolutely, yes. You mentioned a little bit in the bio intro there, but let me go into a little bit more detail again for the benefit of the listeners and for those who are like considering their career development path options. So yes, I did start as a field engineer with Turner back in 1991, and I think it's important to note that I had absolutely no construction experience whatsoever when I was hired by Turner. And I always share that just for the benefit of anyone listening who is concerned that they don't have any experience when they come into the industry. So I did not either. And it's okay to come into the industry with just some guts and some ambition and some willingness to learn. And that's what happened to me. So I started with no experience as a field engineer and spent about my first five years, plus or minus five years with Turner Construction Company, which I highly recommend, starting careers with very large firms like that because the training and development background that you can get, particularly in your early years, can be very helpful. But probably the most important thing that I realized coming out of those first five years with Turner was how fortunate I was and how smart I was to listen to this advice to stay in the field. My first five years looked like this. I started as a field engineer, then I became a cost and scheduling engineer, then I went back out in the field as an assistant superintendent, then I went in the office as an assistant estimator, then I went back out in the field as an assistant superintendent. And that kind of bouncing around with this well rounded foundation was very helpful. But if you notice, I started as a field engineer and as I progressed from there I stayed on the superintendent track as opposed to the project engineering assistant, project management, project manager track, which the vast majority of the people in the industry do. And you will note throughout our conversation today that I'm always carrying a torch for if you get a choice and if you can hack it, stay out in the field as long as possible and go the superintendent route. So I just wanted to share that in reference to my experiences with Turner from there towards this roundedness that you mentioned. I then purposefully left general contracting and went to the owner side of the equation because I wanted to experience it. I wanted to know what is it like to be on the owner side of the equation where you are hiring architects, engineers and contractors. And it was an incredibly good decision. Though I didn't spend a whole lot of time in this role as national manager of construction administration for Blockbuster Video, I was only there for just under two years, but it was pivotal in my career. It's interesting because when you have a construction management degree and you start off with a career in the general contracting or contracting side of things, you tend to think that the construction industry is all about construction. And that would be a logical thing to say. But once you go to the owner's side of the equation, you quickly realize that it's really not about construction. It's really about all the needs and wants and functionality of the building that you're building and the profitability of the business plan associated with the decisions to construct something. And it's just really important for contractors to learn that and as young in your career as possible. So that was a big thing that I experienced by going over to the owner side. The second most important thing that I gained from going over to the owner side of the equation was picture that. I started at Turner, where the projects are very large and very long. But when I went to Blockbuster Video in this kind of retail environment, it was the opposite. It was instead of working on a $50 million project that lasts three years, it was, here's these 350,000 to $500,000 tenant improvement projects that last six weeks long. So I bring that point up just to illustrate again this well rounded experiences that I was having. And after that, I became vice President of Business development back in the general contracting arena. But instead of working for a big global contractor like Turner, I was now working for a local regional contractor in the South Florida area. So again, contributing to this roundedness of different experiences. And if you've been listening to my career path, it was 100% operations oriented. But all of a sudden I was given an opportunity to be in business development. So again, I was jumping on this with the intention of all right, now I'm going to get to learn a new very important aspect of commercial contracting and get to be a part of the business development sales experience. And I could not have landed in a better place I cannot plug this company enough. Miller Construction Company is incredibly prestigious, highly reputable firm in South Florida. And can you believe how lucky I was to learn business development from an organization that competitively bids almost nothing. So for seven plus years I was there learning all about negotiated design, build and negotiated CM at risk work. Again from a contractor that participates very rarely in anything that is competitively bid. So that again was just a very fortunate experience. And then from there I went back to the owner side of the equation. I started a small boutique owner's rep firm that did nothing but healthcare and hospital related work and then ultimately started the.com that you mentioned in my bio. And so that gave me experience as an entrepreneur and raising capital and doing all kinds of things that I never would have predicted I would have done back in 1991 when we didn't even have email. So all of those things have led to me having a very well rounded career as you mentioned. And I cannot recommend that enough because the more experiences that you have and the wide variety of experiences that you have while you're going up the proverbial corporate ladder will make you a better executive leader because you will be more empathetic to all the people that you're leading. You will have a better understanding of everyone and all the different roles that are involved at any successful general contracting or construction management firm. And if you can experience the owner side of the equation, you will then be adding that value and that wisdom back to your construction management team. So I hope that gives you and your listeners a feel for what a purposefully well rounded set of career choices can do for you.
- [11:00]
C
That's great. I'm curious if looking back at your career path and you just said purposefully, I'm just curious if most of the roles that you landed in, if you selected those intentionally or if you, if it was serendipitous that you happen to be in those roles and then it benefited you in the long run. So I'm just curious if those were selected intentionally. And then I'm also just interested to hear how other individuals guided your career path and whether they had an impact on the decisions that you've made throughout.
- [11:33]
B
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say it was a combination of some luck and serendipity and good fortune that, that we're all blessed to have in our lives, but also some very kind and helpful mentors and sponsors that I happen to bump into along the way. So say for example, during my first five years at Turner, I met people that were apologetically very proudly, encouraging me to stay in the field and the real field, like actual superintendent field. And I'm so grateful to those people who pushed me in that direction. I'm not sure I would have understood the difference between the trailer and the field. I like to say now because so many people that have construction management degrees are pushed in the direction of the trailer and not the field. So I'm very grateful that those first few years of my career I was heavily influenced by some very strong superintendents who encouraged me to stay out there and learn the value of spending time with subcontractor coordination. Right? Just basically being enveloped in the daily grind of subcontractor coordination so that I could learn exactly what they do, how they do it, and have an appreciation for how things are actually built and develop an appropriate reverence for the people who actually do the work. So that was instilled in me by mentors early on and I'm very grateful. Another example would be I had this headhunter contact me about the position to be vice President of Business Development. And I want to share for the benefit of listeners here how much resistance I put up to that. So when this executive recruiter reached out to me and said, oh, I really want you to interview for this position to be business development at Miller Construction Company, I was throwing up my hand saying, why are you even contacting me for this? I have no business development experience whatsoever. I'm all ops. I love this company, I'm very interested in this company. But when they have a VP of Ops position open or something like that, let me know. But this particular executive recruiter was convinced that I was the right person for this job and he convinced the owners of Miller Construction Company to give me an interview of which then started happening. And slowly over time, I started opening up my mind to realize, oh my gosh, am I judging this all wrong. I should be open minded and showing up in gratitude for this exposure that I'm going to be given and this education that I'm going to be given. So I credit much of my career to that executive recruiter and the owners of Miller Construction Co. Who could see a good fit and a potential in me that I could not even see in the beginning. So those are some examples of ways where other people showed up in my life and really helped me. And because of that, it inspired me to write the book Inside Construction's Most Valuable Players where I was trying to provide the book I wish I would have had, right? So when I graduated with my degree, I had no experience whatsoever, as I said, and I really didn't understand even what the career development options were in general contracting and construction management. But because I was so blessed and fortunate to have good guidance along the way and then also some good instincts for myself, I thought, you know what? I'm going to leave a trail for the next generation about some things to think about. So your question really lends well into why I wrote the book and the positive impacts that it has now had.
- [15:35]
A
Let's take a quick break and hear from our sponsor. At stv, we see the potential that lives within communities. We believe in the positive impact that takes place when people come together and worlds connect. Helping to create that transformation is what drives us forward and fuels our optimism for a better world. STV Making Communities better Today and for the future.
- [16:04]
C
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up the book because I wanted to ask you about that. So I believe the subtitle is 7 Reasons why They Get Promoted Faster, Make More Money, and Enjoy a Seemingly Unfair Advantage Over Everyone Else. I know we don't have time to go over all seven strategies, unfortunately on this podcast today, but can you maybe highlight one or two of the key strategies or let us know? Are there some common themes throughout the book that you could share with us?
- [16:30]
B
Oh, for sure, some common themes. I think if I had to throw out the most common theme amongst the seven strategies, it would be that there's a lot of things you need to unlearn. So it's like counterintuitive, right? Ways of looking at the industry that really go against some of the common knowledge and common wisdom that's thrown out there. And so my book was an attempt to reframe a lot of things and help people to unlearn a few things that I found not to be helpful and then therefore replace some of these old paradigms with some new ways of looking at things that could really catapult your career. So my first answer to your question would be that it's a new framing and some counterintuitive strategies that can be extraordinarily helpful. Another theme would be my book is all about helping you to navigate a transition from the beginnings of your career, where your positions will often be project focused, but then navigating a transition into company focused roles. Most people fail miserably at making that transition. They're really good at project focused roles, but struggle tremendously to transition into any kind of company focused role. And so my book is in large part meant to serve as a foundation of new ways of thinking some early leadership Principles that are specific to the construction management industry and. And then the strategies will help you to make that transition. Like you said, we definitely don't have time to go over all seven chapters, but a couple I could just quickly mention it'll be things like chapter number two is called the Trailer Ate the Field, which we touched on previously. I'm trying to get people to understand that the vast majority of the time when you ask somebody if they have field experience, they will say yes. And you'll say tell me about it. And they'll say, I started as a field engineer out on this job and then I was assistant superintendent and then I was a project manager. And then I carefully but honestly reply and say that's wonderful, that's excellent experience, but that's not field experience, that's trailer experience. And then I tried to get people to understand what real actual field experience is and what it will do for you in your career because it made all the difference in the world in mind. So that's an example of some of the kind of counterintuitive reframing of things that can really make a difference in your career.
- [19:13]
A
I want to go back to your experiences and can you talk a little bit about the transitioning from CM operations focused roles into business development focused and senior executive roles within the industry and what challenges you may have faced and do you have for others who are making a similar transition or considering it?
- [19:31]
B
Yes. I cannot emphasize this enough. This was another absolute pivotal point in my career that I now encourage in other people who think that they may have the skills, the talents, the interest, the inclination to excel in business development. So let me share some good and bad news on this front. Number one, I would say this transition is incredibly hard. So the bad news is that transitioning into business development is not for everyone. It is incredibly difficult. I have an entire class in my professional development series of courses. I have an entire class called getting the work is harder than doing it. And that is a big wake up call that most people in the contracting world and construction management world need to learn by saying that getting the work is harder than doing it. Please do not mistake me. I am not implying in any way, shape or form that doing the work is easy. It's not. We all know that construction management work is incredibly hard. I'm simply making the point that serving in a business development capacity for any kind of, say, general contracting, construction management at risk firm is harder. That's all I'm saying. It's harder. It's harder to be a part of A team of people that are creating sustained, profitable growth and client acquisition for a company. So the bad news is it's really hard and it's really hard to make this transition. The good news is there are a growing number of people. I am an example of one of them, but there are others. There are a growing number of people who have successfully made this transition in the industry and therefore can live through it, live to tell about it and come back and share. That's why I developed a masterclass in business development for people that are trying to make this transition and you asked me if I had any advice for those people. One of the things that I'll just share up front is that you really have to reframe in your mind what success looks like and what a good day feels like when you switch from operations oriented roles to business development oriented roles. If you don't make that mind shift in your head, you will feel like a failure every day. Because when you come from operations roles, I'm sure I don't have to tell you guys this. You know that you are in this very task driven world. You're like, okay, form and pour on the third deck here. Check it off. Pass Roth plumbing inspection today. Check it off. There's all these things that you do. Complete schedule, send it out, do this rfi, make these submittals, check, check. Everything is very task oriented. But when you switch over to business development, if you're not careful, you will go home each day, each week, each month wondering and feeling as if you have accomplished anything. And that kind of emotional burnout makes many people fail. So just as a little bit of a tip to throw out there today for your listeners, this is part of what I teach in my masterclass on business development is literally the mind shift that you have to make in order to be able to recognize what delayed success and rare success looks like. Because in the world of business development, it's wonderful if you score two times a year, but you have to learn how to feel really good about the other 363 days.
- [23:19]
A
Just so our listeners know, those were end quotes that you didn't get to see. She didn't.
- [23:25]
C
So let's talk a little bit more about business development from an organizational standpoint. I know we've been talking about individual professional development, but if you just zoom out and look at the organization level, especially with your experience now in business development and growth strategy, what are some of the key strategies for firms to differentiate themselves in the field when competing against other firms?
- [23:49]
B
It's interesting. I Draw a parallel. I do this in chapter one of my book, which is called yeah, what else you got? I draw this parallel between the firm level, like your question is asking me what's happening at the differentiation game at the company or firm level. But I draw the same parallel to all of us individual construction managers who work for those companies. We're all in the same differentiation game. So here's what I mean by that. At the company level, this differentiation game is becoming incredibly important and incredibly difficult. And I make the point that in our industry we are past the industry's competitive tipping point, if you will. Meaning the most elite general contracting construction management firms, they all have essentially the same basic qualifications in the bag. In fact, if you don't believe me on that, just look at the way they all sell themselves. Look at their websites, look at their sales presentations, listen to their elevator pitch in an elevator. They will all tell you exactly the same thing. And it sounds something like this. We deliver top quality projects on time, on budget, with excellent safety records. Here's our list of clients projects that are very similar to yours so that we could prove those claims. And how do we do it? Oh, we have the best people. Everyone is saying the exact same thing and everyone is reasonably accurate in making those claims. So that's what I mean by our industry is past the competitive tipping point. And therefore those basic qualifications that everyone many years ago used to be striving to achieve those qualifications has now achieved them. And therefore they are not differentiators. So you can go out there and say all you want that we have all these projects on time, on budget, good quality, blah blah blah, it's yeah, so do I, so do they. What else you got? That differentiation strategy in game, if you will, is very difficult to play. Whether you're talking about it at the company level or all of us as individuals who work for them. But to answer your question, where have I seen some success in this differentiation game? I constantly encouraging people to stop promoting those basic qualifications and think of them more like the minimum ante to play at the poker table. Okay, here's our minimum ante. We have to ante up with these same basic construction management oriented qualifications. They're required but they're no longer enough to differentiate you. So what I'm known to say, this is one of the quotes I have out there in the industry is the critical path from good to great in the construction management industry no longer runs through construction management. You simply cannot get more gooder. Right, Let me just air quote that. You can't get more gooder enough at construction management skills and behaviors for them to mean anything anymore because all of your legitimate competitors can claim the same things. So then what else can you claim? And what I have seen be successful is when I encourage companies to realize that it's less about your construction management skills and it's more about what I call your experience management skills. What you're really trying to do is manage the experience that your client is having from start to finish on the job and to recognize that how the owner thinks and feels about you, underline and bold, the word feels about you is what really drives success at the end of a project and turns clients into repeat clients. And I often quote Dr. Maya Angelou as a way of inspiring this behavior. So her famous quote, people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people never forget how you made them feel. That should be like the ethos of every construction management individual behavior and the collective behavior of the company as a whole. What you are after is managing how that client feels about the process. And when it comes to feelings, the feeling that matters the most is fear. You need to be managing everyone's fear throughout the process. And there's a handful of construction managers out there who are really good at this and taking that differentiator to the bay.
- [28:44]
A
We're running a little short on time here, but I do want to get your 30 second thoughts as somebody who has had so many experiences as a keynote and as a workshop facilitator within the CM industry. Let's talk about your advice you would give to a woman or minority in this industry and what should they be looking at to help themselves excel within the industry.
- [29:05]
B
Okay, for sure. You can imagine how many times I've been asked this over the years having served as a keynote presenter in so many different construction organizations. Again, let me give you a good news and bad news answer. The bad news is it is a disadvantage. It flat out is it is a disadvantage to be a woman or a minority in the construction industry. Yes, it was harder for me. It is a disadvantage. That's the bad news. The good news is two things. Number one, it's getting better. And number two, here's the extra good news. Although I think being a woman has been a huge disadvantage, it is nowhere near the biggest disadvantage. That's the good news. The biggest disadvantage in the construction management industry is genderless. The biggest disadvantage has to do with personality characteristics. What matters is that you are wicked smart, you have grit, resilience, the ability to think logically. And reason from first principles, the ability to ask thousands of questions, the ability to have a tough skin, the ability to become an exceptionally good problem solver. Those are personality traits and characteristics. Also, by the way, you cannot be the kind of person who avoids conflict. If that is, you just run, pick another career. Do you get the point I'm making? The most important thing revolves around who you are as a person, what your natural tendencies are. And those are genderless. I think it's really important message to get out there. It's good to have eyes wide open. It's good to be understanding and cognizant that there are some disadvantages of being a woman or minority in the industry. But let me reiterate, it's getting better. And the most important disadvantages revolve around personality traits. And those are genderless.
- [31:05]
C
I think that's a great way to wrap it up. So, Kody, thank you so much for joining us today. It was really a pleasure to speak with you.
- [31:12]
B
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
- [31:15]
C
For anyone who would like to connect with Cody, you can find her on LinkedIn or you can check out her book available on Amazon. Again, the title is Inside Commercial Constructions MVPs. On the next episode of the Construction Leaders Podcast, we will be joined by Justin Ganshow from Caterpillar Safety Services. I think we can all agree safety is a critical element of the construction industry that we should all be committed to. But Justin's going to take one step further and discuss the concept of psychological safety and what that looks like on the job site. As always, make sure to download or subscribe to the podcast and follow us on social media. Maahq. Also, don't forget to leave us a review with your thoughts on today's episode. And please let us know what you'd like to hear on an upcoming episode. On behalf of cmaa, I'm Carly Trout with Nick Soto. Thank you for listening.