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Construction Leaders Podcast
Innovation, Leadership, and Delivering Top-Tier Results in Construction Management
00:23:10
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- [00:03]
Nick Soto
Welcome to the Construction Leaders podcast, Season 3, Episode 10. As most of our listeners know, we focus on some higher level thinking within construction and mastering the art and science of managing construction projects. Whether you're a seasoned professional or budding project manager, or someone who's fascinated by the world of construction, this podcast is designed to equip you with the knowledge and insights you need to excel in this dynamic industry. Your role is integral to the construction management community and we're here to support you. Beyond just talking about project phases in each of our episodes, we don't just skim the surface of construction management. We delve deep into the fundamental aspects from project planning and budgeting to risk management and workforce retention. Our goal is to provide you with practical strategies and best practices that you can implement in your careers, projects or organizations to make a real impact with the work you're doing. Today, we have the honor of exploring the operations of Dell Management, a construction firm that stands in the Midwest of the United States. Dell Management is not your typical construction company. It's a pioneer setting the bar in the industry with its innovative solutions, unwavering commitment to quality, and exceptional project delivery. We're thrilled to have the Founder and CEO Kyle Grindel, ccm, here to share how Dell Management is not just navigating, but shaping complexities of this ever evolving field, instilling optimism for the future of this industry. Welcome to the show, Kyle.
- [01:32]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, thank you Nick. I'm very happy to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you all today.
- [01:37]
Nick Soto
So why don't you start a little bit by telling us about yourself and how you started Dell Management.
- [01:42]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, yeah. So my, my background goes all the way back to construction. That was my roots. So I was an electrician first. That was my weekends, my night's job, my summer job, et cetera. Started doing that for a while when I went to school for electrical engineering. I transitioned into engineering role shortly after that and then a few years later hung up the tool belt. Didn't really do any practical work anymore with electrician yo trades work, but started doing engineering work. So I was doing controls and power system design for food and beverage manufacturers, going around the country to their various projects, helping out with the design work, but then also troubleshooting in the field, any installation issues, things like that. And then a few years into that I just got an opportunity. Construction manager talked to me, he said, hey Kyle, I see you're always in the field helping out with installations. Do you want to try being construction manager? I have a need for electrical Construction manager on a very large project. At the time I said I'm already in the field all the time. It makes a little bit more money, so why not let's go try it out. It's a little different, but more or less doing kind of the same thing. So then I did that was back in 2016 and that's when I started deal management. Basically I just haven't looked back since. It's been really fun to get out of the electrical world and be able to focus not just on electrical but all the other aspects of the project to the civil structural, the mvp, get involved with the project planning side, all the pre construction closeouts. So I've really enjoyed making that transition. And long story short, that's my background in a nutshell. From electrician to engineer and then ledger to construction manager. And now I'm just working on growing our company.
- [03:12]
Carly Trout
So Kyle, a lot of times we ask our guests to look into the future of construction management and what trends do you see coming in the future. But I guess looking back at your time as a CM so far, how have you seen construction management industry evolving over those years and what do you see for the next two or three years of construction management?
- [03:33]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, well the biggest things that I've seen it comes from the manufacturing side because I've always done industrial manufacturing projects. That's the niche I fell into. And so as you do it, you get more and more pigeonholed. But regardless. So on the manufacturing side what we've seen is an interesting shift. There's been a trend, a change from a lot of CM agency work or CMGCs operating at risk to now it's starting to go more towards the EPC design build models. And so there's really a difference in what role cms are playing on these projects as far as the clients are concerned. And, and it seems to be separable too. Over the 15 years I've been in the industry and the eight years of doing construction management, I'm starting to see this shift. So I'll be really curious to see next three to five and then 10 years or more if it goes back to that CM agency role, that CMGC at risk model again.
- [04:23]
Nick Soto
So how is Dell management leveraging some of those innovations and how are you planning on staying ahead of those curves?
- [04:30]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, our company specializes in owner's rep work and so we fall right into that CM agency, right into that particular type of model that our owners are starting to look at. Thankfully for me, coming from the engineering side, that's part of the value we bring is that we bring aspects and experience from all parts of the project, from the planning, the engineering, the design phase, and then obviously through the execution and the construction phases. And being able to do that allows us to have a unique advantage where we know what those owners are going through on the engineering side on the design and the pre construction, because we've been there, we've done it from our own experience. And so now that's gives us a unique position to be able to speak through that as their agents, as their consultants in these projects.
- [05:10]
Carly Trout
And obviously we all know that construction projects often face challenges regarding capital management. Can you share some of your biggest challenges that you've encountered and how you address them?
- [05:21]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, there's actually one that I would say is the most common and it's actually a part of value engineering. And it really comes down to on the front end, the pre construction planning, where the clients are trying to decide how many dollars do they want to put towards the engineering design versus how much can they accept from the field change order side. And depending on who you ask on which side of the fence you're on, engineers are going to say you need to spend all the money up front. You really got to have solid engineering, got to get all these details and plans and specs as lined out as possible. But sometimes contractors, they like the field change orders, that's where most of their money is made. So it's this interesting balance to take into account all the different constraints and all the different parts of the project and the site and then put that together and then really understand it from the dollars and capital management side and say what does make more sense? Do we want to have a full 100% design engineering package, do we need it or can we accept a little bit more money on the change order side, Are we okay with the contractors driving a little bit of the design too in the field? Because we just didn't have time or we didn't make the dollars and cents to do all that full engineering work.
- [06:25]
Nick Soto
I want to go back because you said you guys are typically the owners reps on these projects. So how does Dell management ensure that the needs and expectations of their clients are consistently met throughout the lifecycle of a project?
- [06:37]
Kyle Grindel
For us, it starts in the very front end. There's a lot of people that believe having a successful client relationship is asking for feedback and continuous improvement throughout the process. But we like to start before that. I like to go into a client meeting into a new project and talk to these clients and understand, all right, before we start what are your expectations and how do we meet them? What are your concerns with this project? What are, what kind of constraints? What things are keeping you up at night? A lot of people will just start a project, fill it up with resources, start the execution, and then hopefully it works out. But our difference is that we have the client onboarding meetings, we have kickoff meetings. We really want to understand what our customers needs and pain points are before we even get started. Because if we're going to set ourselves up for success, we have to at least meet the expectations. But obviously the hope is to exceed them.
- [07:21]
Carly Trout
Kyle, I wanted to ask you about technology. We've focused on different technological innovations that past few episodes on this podcast. So I'm just curious, from your perspective, in what ways has technology transformed construction management and what advancements are you most excited about in the future?
- [07:39]
Nick Soto
Yeah, and how your background in electrical engineering kind of coincides with some of this advancement in technology.
- [07:46]
Kyle Grindel
So it's really interesting you ask that question because there's a lot of trends, a lot of things that are happening that I think most of us in the industry see. For example, AI is a big one. Everybody's talking about it, and I don't think anybody really fully understands what it's capable of. So there's a lot of cool things that are being done on the customer side as well as we're starting to utilize it too. And the stuff we're utilizing it for, honestly is not very advanced. It's helping us generate some emails, helping us get properly worded things out, basically be more intelligent, our conversations and our dialogue. But there's so many uses for it that I don't think we even fully understand yet. And so it's going to be really cool, I think, to see how AI evolves over the next few years and really how it gets harnessed and used. Now with that being said, I do think that technology has other roles too. Other really important ones, such as the ones that I'm the most excited about personally, are providing clients with the most real time data and progress reports for what's going on sites. And there's some super cool technology, I think everybody's heard about it at this point, but augmented reality, virtual reality, there's some amazing tools out there and I've been fortunate enough to use some of them. Augmented reality headsets, for example, where you have your 3D model loaded in into this headset, you can go out to walk the job site, you can see conflicts as you're walking it. For example, H vac duct is running through a room and the electrical conduit that's in the way that could be critical for a project, because that conduit could have circuits that are absolutely critical for the plant that's operating or the other operations folks. And so seeing that stuff ahead of time could make all the difference in the world. So with that being said, technology like AR maybe isn't quite where it needs to be fully effective, depending on what project you're on. But seeing where that stuff goes is really exciting to me. I'm really looking forward to seeing the next three to five years as technology grows and changes. What can really happen with that?
- [09:29]
Nick Soto
So thinking back a few years ago during COVID 19, I'm sure you wish you would have had some of those ways to predict the issues that are going on on job sites. Talk to me about a little bit of things that happened with the supply chain disruption and how construction projects are now being planned or executed.
- [09:46]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, it's really interesting because what I really see in my opinion across the board is really an acceptance of it because it's really out of the control for most of us. Unless you're a very large company like the Amazons of the world, you don't have a lot of actual control over supply chain. You're more or less at the mercy. And so when you're ordering things like electrical distribution equipment or certain types of building materials even, it can be really long lead times or what we run into a lot in manufacturing equipment from overseas. There can be really long lead times. And so really the best thing that we do is we just plan for it. Because you really can't change it, we can't influence it, we can't make them produce. And so you end up just building that into your project schedule and planning for it and making sure that we have all the other pieces lined up so that once this does show up, it can drop right into place. And the supply chain ones is really interesting because it was a huge impact. We all felt it in the industry was devastating. It exposed a lot of things that were wrong with our industry and stuff that nobody even thought about or even had the mindset to think through as far as steps. But it's interesting because we just have accepted it now and it's become more or less the norm for the most part. A lot of things have, I would say, returned to pre Covid normal lead times in that stuff. But there's a lot of things that haven't. And there just isn't a whole lot we can do except for plan around it, I think.
- [11:02]
Carly Trout
Kyle, can you maybe share an example of a crisis that Dell management faced? Maybe it was regarding supply chain or something else and just how you navigated through it?
- [11:12]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, actually earlier this year we did a project for one of our biggest clients they had. And I can't say who it was, but it was very large, very important project for them where they had to replace a silo and this was a silo in their process line that was absolutely critical for the operation of their entire plant. It was a confectionary plant, making chocolate chips, cookie dough, that kind of a thing. And this was like their main sugar silo. So very important for those ingredients, those products. But they had to replace it. They had a very tight downtime window, about 10 days. And they came to us and said, we need help. We don't know how to execute this the right way. We need to make sure it gets done. Because as far as this plant goes and these people and their jobs, if this doesn't go well, we're at a big risk here because the business, the overall business for this product needs it and they're behind. So they came to us with this challenge and the challenge was we need to make sure this goes well no matter what. So what can you do to help us? And essentially what we did, like I said, we started out with what are your expectations, what are your big concerns, your big pain points? And a lot of those things were making sure we had the right resources and making sure we had the right coverage and that the front end planning was done well. So thankfully we had a good general contracting partner that does a lot of lean construction, a lot of front end planning techniques. We partnered with them to understand the schedule, the process and go through it, do dry runs, make sure the whole 10 days was lined out really well. We also had the right staff to be able to support 24, 7 work. So this was around the clock for 10 days. So we had two people that cover multiple shifts. But then on top of that, of course is also monitoring safety, making sure safety's forefront. You can't have anybody getting hurt. And ultimately we, thankfully it was a big success. The system got replaced in the 10 day window started up and from what I hear, six months later, it's been a success. So very happy about it.
- [12:57]
Nick Soto
Yeah, we definitely don't want the cookies to not have the sugar. And I thank you for that and making sure that was all in place.
- [13:04]
Kyle Grindel
So.
- [13:04]
Nick Soto
So I want to go back to challenges. So we've talked about a couple crises and challenges you had to deal with. But there's one that I am very particular about and we've had a few times on this podcast we partner with other organizations, that is cmaa, with people like the Construction Industry alliance for Suicide Prevention. Talk to me about mental health and how we all know it's become an emerging area in construction over the past few years. But what is Dell Management doing to lead the awareness and improvement efforts while still being able to execute their projects?
- [13:32]
Kyle Grindel
Our biggest thing is, I would say, awareness. And that's the first step for a big movement like this. And obviously we're very glad to see this happening because it's about time I came up in the trades 15 years ago. Things were a lot different back then. Nobody cared about mental health back then and it's finally time to see this kind of a good change. And so what we're doing is awareness. We're making our clients understand how important it is and helping bring that into our kickoff meetings with contractors. Because right now, as we all know, there's labor shortages that we're concerned of. There's the workforce is it's going away in the next few years, next 10 years, as people retire or pass away. And so there's a big issue here. And part of that issue is that there is a culture that is already in the industry, driving the industry. So trying to change that, trying to make it better is a concern. So we feel that it's our first job to bring awareness to all these tradesmen, these GCs as we're starting these projects, to really understand why it's important. And then also, of course, we're monitoring it during the project to make sure that we are following through on these things. The first, most important part of Lean Construction is respect for other people. And so we fully believe that we bring that into these projects. And we've had to unfortunately have, have people remove from sites because they don't understand and they can't wrap their heads around what that really means. But getting the buy in and getting the client backing, the customer backing on those projects is that's really the first big step is that's going to help us make this big shift in the industry.
- [14:58]
Carly Trout
So let's keep talking about the workforce a little bit and can you tell us how you cultivate leadership within your teams? And there's a lot of talk about the new generations entering the workforce and what strategies is Dell Management using to employ and develop that next generation of leaders?
- [15:16]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, the first step there is picking the right people, of course. And so we Do a pretty extensive process where we start a search. We're pretty small company, we have just a couple construction managers, but then we have a lot of partners we rely on for safety services, for discipline specific construction management services. So depending on what the needs are for the project, that's going to determine who we call for our partners. But then once we do call them, we start our interview processes and we go through to find the right candidates. And the right candidate isn't always the right person on paper, on the resume. But of course it's the person that has the right communication skills, has a similar background to what the client needs for the project. And so really it's starting with that foundation, making sure it's the right person getting with, but then beyond that it's keeping in touch with them regularly. A lot of companies I worked for, I was very shocked and surprised that you get sent out to a job site as construction manager and you may not hear from them for a month, two months, three months later. There's no check ins, there's no follow ups, there's no questions about what are your pain points on the ground, what's in the ground. Look, they're the ones that know what's going on day to day, the struggles. So if you're not staying in tune with them to understand what's going on, then you really don't know what's going on with your project. And the project's just running itself. So that's a big thing we do as well is constantly, weekly, daily, whatever the needs are, following up with our field personnel, making sure they're getting what they need and that we're able to address it and make the changes as necessary. So that could be, like I said, it could be daily, could be weekly, maybe biweekly, just depending on what's going on at the project. But the check ins to us are really big check ins in person, remote check ins, whatever the situation happens to be that makes the most sense. On top of that with the field staff directly, we also have internal field ops meetings where our leadership team internally discusses what's going on on the ground. It allows us to put our heads together, talk through issues that we can on the management side and then figure out, okay, are we doing the things we have to be doing? Are we being effective leaders in management for our field support staff to make sure that they are getting what they need to be successful. So those are two big things and that as far as the next generation and making sure that they're getting brought up to Speed the right way. It's mentorship, it's being with them in the trenches, in the field day to day. It's really making sure that we put the effort in to work with them and help them understand all the best parts of the industry and be excited about it. That's the most important thing. If people are excited about it, they're going to want to stay and they're going to want to help others too. Keeping them excited, helping them learn and then. But like I said, just being there with them to mentor them is really big.
- [17:44]
Nick Soto
You're a ccm, you're a founder of an organization. Talk to me about the degrees and the certifications versus not having one and the effect or image it brings in, the value from diverse backgrounds of experience that certification is allowed to enter this field in construction. And the values of hand on experience coupled with the mentoring. How do you as Dell management look at those kinds of things?
- [18:09]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, and if I just think back to let's say earliest part of that answer would be would it be like hands on experience? I think it's absolutely critical that people have experience at some point working with or around construction and it's necessary because it's hard to manage something that you don't understand what has to be done for those steps to take place. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm just going to say majority of the time having that experience in some fashion or at least getting the experience I feel is super critical. Now it could be training and mentorship while you're construction manager in training, getting your CMIT going through, through those levels of the, of the program, that could be a really great way to do it. But I do feel that the field experience, getting some hands on training to, to see what's really going on out there is critical. And now that leads kind of the certifications part. I'm a big fan of certifications. I think they're great. And the reason being is to me it establishes a baseline of what you can expect when you hire somebody, at least as far as their knowledge areas. And then of course with the great credential like the CCM program, there is also the experience behind it that backs it up too. So now you're hiring an individual that not only has the knowledge areas they've demonstrated, but they also have that field experience part, whether it's four years or more at least what baseline, what you're hiring into when you hire that person. And obviously too from the business side it looks great for the Businesses, too, because now you're putting out credentialed employees and credentialed field personnel that you can say to your clients, look them directly in the eye and you can say, you know what? I'm confident this person's going to do it. And they've also demonstrated they have the knowledge and the experience to do.
- [19:40]
Nick Soto
I think I'm ready to hire you for the team, Kyle. I appreciate the plug and the promo, but he was not paid for this advertisement.
- [19:46]
Carly Trout
So, Kyle, I think we just have time for one more question, and I was going to ask what advice you would give. We have a lot of younger listeners out there, folks just entering the construction management profession. So what advice would you give them entering the field?
- [19:59]
Kyle Grindel
Yeah, I have a couple of things and I'll try to keep it somewhat short, but I would start with stay hungry and work hard. It doesn't mean you have to be the first person there at the job site or be the last person to leave. But always keeping that interest and that focus and learning and being a sponge is so important in construction because anybody that's around it long enough knows that there are so many details to every process that you just can't learn at all, even in a lifetime, no matter who you are. So you can learn one skill or one trade very well, but there's always details and more to learn. So keep learning. It's one of one of my big ones. Another one, I would say is to be humble and ask questions. Asking questions is the best way to learn. It's the best way to confirm things that you may think you know, but you might find out you didn't know it as well as you thought you did, too. Asking questions. But the first part of that's being humble, of course, too, is understanding that I'm coming into this. I don't know everything, but I want to learn. I really want to learn. Another big one is making mistakes and owning them. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Anybody that works for a period of time, they make mistakes and they just have to own up to it and learn from it. That's what employers want. That's what managers want, is it's totally fine to screw up, but you need to own it and we need to learn from it. As long as we do, that's the fastest way, the best way to learn. And those are also the lessons that stick. A couple other quick ones. Look it out for others. We talked about respect in the industry, about mental health. We really got to look out for each other out there. The field can be a dangerous place, but it can also be a really great place, a warm place and a welcome place to work. And looking out for each other can create that environment to make it exciting for next generations, make it exciting for the owners to deliver good projects that people want to work on. God forbid somebody comes off the job site and they're really happy about it, they want to keep doing it, but unfortunately that just doesn't seem to be the norm yet. And I would say last thing is one of my favorites is just to watch you listen more and talk less. I've always felt that I learn a lot more by being quiet and listening to what's going on and observing than I do by talking. And a lot of people like to talk a lot and sometimes you find out they're really not the most knowledgeable necessarily in that area, but they talk out of insecurity. So I find that just watching and listening and observing, I feel that I get more information out of that and it gets me to have a better decision making skill going forward because of it.
- [22:11]
Carly Trout
Great. That was really great advice and great closing remarks. So Kyle, we'd really like to thank you for joining the podcast today. For any listeners who'd like to learn more about Dell Management, you can visit www.dellmanagement.com Great.
- [22:26]
Kyle Grindel
Thanks for having me, Carly and Nick. It was great. I appreciate it.
- [22:29]
Carly Trout
Coming up on the next episode of the Construction Leaders Podcast, we'll be joined by the Lean Construction Institute and a few of its members to discuss the benefits of using Lean Construction and its evolving role in the industry over the past 1010 years. As always, make sure to download or subscribe to the podcast and follow us on social media maahq Also, please leave a review with your thoughts on today's episode and let us know what you'd like to hear on an upcoming episode. On behalf of cmaa, I'm Carly Trout with Nick Soto. Thanks for listening.