← Content Is Profit
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, guys, and welcome back to continuous profit, baby. Today we have a special one for you. Have you ever felt intimidating by running ads? Do you even know how to do it? Or do you know a good agency that can actually do it and haven't burned a thousand people? Well, today we bring you Nick. Nick, we met through our incredible podcasting mastermind. And not only he has a very successful podcast, top 1% shout out, but he also has a business doing done for you ads. And I was like, nick, we gotta talk. You gotta tell us all the secrets. So today episode is packed with actionable things that you can do today, or you can literally grab that episode and send it to your, like, ad person and be like, do this. Because we go after, you know, we go over a couple of very important things. One is like, what is a very clear roadmap that is very simple that any single business, especially if you are service based, can run today, like legit. You can set that up today. Super simple. It's just a couple of steps that you can start testing your ads and move the lead so you can have these conversations. We also go over your offer formula. Like, what is actually an offer that we can put out there in the ads? Where does 80% of your attention to the ad strategy should go to? And then how do you actually pick the offer that you want to do? You know, we have, is it a low ticket, is it a high ticket, is it a mid ticket? Like, what's the first offer that I should pick to go test this system out? And then at the end of the day, you know, obviously we are in the world of organic content as well. Is it organic better than paid? Is it a combination of both? How do we do it? So anyways, I hope you have a blast listening to this episode because I had a blast recording it with that. Enjoy. Welcome to the show, my man.
- [01:55]
B
Thanks for having me. I'm excited, dude.
- [01:58]
A
Absolutely. So obviously we connected. We're in this mastermind group together. And when Alex first brought you on, we're like, holy crap, yes, we need to bring Nick into the show. And it kind of sucks that Funzi is not here. Being a dad and whatever.
- [02:15]
B
Who becomes a dad say that's an excuse. I mean, come on.
- [02:19]
A
I know. And obviously we've chatted here and there, but I'm super excited to kind of bring this because I feel like a lot of the pain points our listeners and the people here in the studio have can be resolved with what you do online very successfully with your agency.
- [02:38]
B
Love it. This is Great news.
- [02:40]
A
Yeah, absolutely, man. So obviously, you know, you lead a boutique agency, you focus on high converting media strategies, right? Using paid ads, short form content, lead generation for service based businesses. Is that correct?
- [02:55]
B
That's correct. We pretty much run the game on. I haven't fully niche slapped it, as they say, but service space is where we feel pretty comfortable with. Econ too, is great, but service, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.
- [03:07]
A
And I feel, you know, I go back to when we first started with distros. We're like, okay, we're going to start with a service. You know, six years later we're still here with a service. It created some cash flow, it brought some opportunity. But to be completely honest, we've never ran ads. So it has been. We've toyed with the idea of ads. And I think, I'll tell you the extent of ads that we did is when we first started, content is profit. We run what we. I say we. But Fonzie did some magic on Facebook and like exposed our content to, you know, the audiences of, you know, Russell Branson and Grant Cardinal. Entrepreneurial, you know, people that are looking online. Right. And then from that audience, we retarget them on the back end to go listen to more episodes. And at the time we, I don't think we had like a solid offer. We're trying to figure out like, what was the service that we're going to provide inside of content. And then we stopped. Right. And then we toyed a little bit with YouTube promotions and, you know, just experimenting here. But we've never really had a consistent ads and ad strategy. And I think for a lot of people that are in services, that might be intimidating.
- [04:11]
B
Yeah.
- [04:12]
A
Am I correct? Are those the conversations that you normally have?
- [04:15]
B
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you're right. Right up the same alley. I'm curious as to why did you stop running ads? Was it not the results or were you just like, I have referrals coming in, I'm good, we're set here.
- [04:28]
A
I think it's a mix of both. I think it's. At the time we're trying to figure out what the service was and I think we were very scared of putting an investment and not kind of knowing how it was going to come back to us. Right. Like we're trying to figure out the pieces of the puzzle, right? Like, okay, content, what is the offer? Is our offer actually validated? Right. Like, can we actually fulfill on this offer? Right. Not just that, but also the logistics of running the ads. Like we weren't paying any agency, we're trying to learn it ourselves. At the time we were like this and that. And that meant testing with dollars, which can be very intimidating, right?
- [05:07]
B
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Well, I think you're already ahead of the game since you have an offer. And I think offer validation, using paid ads to validate your offer is a great move because you can do very small tests without even actually having the fulfillment prepared for it. So as an example, if you're running a new offer per se, you could run ads directly to an application or a lead form and see what type of traffic you're getting. And you can play with the type of positioning in terms of who you're targeting. So you might think that business owners are the way to go, but really it's stay at home dads or something like that. And you can test each of those different audiences. And if you see one of those audience filling, you get 80 applications for this, this new offer, and you get zero on the next one. You've pretty much tested the market for, you know, maybe 100 bucks, 50 or, yeah, you know, 500 bucks, whatever the case may be. And then, you know, okay, this is the winner. Now I can set up the back end to fulfill on it and actually start selling. So offer validation, you can still be done with paid ads at a very small level so that you can scale quickly.
- [06:13]
A
So when you say small or small budget, like how many dollars are we talking about?
- [06:18]
B
Totally depends. If you're just doing offer testing in the sense of you might have three that you want to go through to see which one's going to have some legs, you can probably spend 100 bucks on each of them just to see the response and engagement to each, you know, and also, you know, especially when you're making small tweaks in terms of ad copy, messaging and headlines, like, those are good to really get nitty gritty in the beginning. But as soon as something is starting to catch, like throw, throw a good chunk, you know, maybe bump it up to 500. Usually when people come to me, I suggest that they start with 500 to a thousand because the first 30 days, let's say you find the quote, unquote, winning offer after you do the initial test of $100 or whatever the case may be, that's really when you're going to start getting a lot of real data because you're going to start taking calls at that point with that much ad spend. So, and that's where a lot of the juice comes from, is you're having conversations, these sales conversations are either going super swimmingly and you're like, oh, this is the perfect, like, people are hot and ready to buy, or it's like, this is a real grind to get somebody to buy this. And either my ads are off, or I'm just not getting the right people. So, yeah, those are some of the testing to do in the first 30 days, for sure.
- [07:28]
A
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I think, you know, part of obviously having a small business is, you know, sometimes you also depend a lot on referral sources. And we establish a little bit of a system with our show where, you know, our guests became, like, a source of an opportunity, right? That meaning it became a customer, it became a referral source. They were like, we would show them the demo. So we're having, like, this, like, very high quality, you know, three conversations a week, not only on the show, but also, hey, let me show you kind of what we do and see if we can collaborate. So it was, like, a very organic way to. To follow, and it worked really well. I think, like, we did the math on the first hundred episodes, and it was like 80% of the people that came on said yes to that follow call. Right?
- [08:08]
B
That's awesome. Yeah.
- [08:08]
A
And then from that 80%, about 60% ended up doing business with us, right? And that became, like. So it was, like, pretty high, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, like, this. This is great. And it felt good. It wasn't, you know, if I'm happy to share the process, but it was shady. I've known of similar scenarios where they're like, hey, yes, we're going to do this interview. And then the interview is like, 15 minutes. And you can definitely tell that the. The purpose of that conversation is to. And then they go for the pitch right away. Or it's like, it just feels, like, very sleazy at the end of the day. Like, we're very genuine on the way. It's like, hey, yeah, we 100% want to collaborate with you. Like, let's figure out a way on how we can do it, right? Like, we have something to offer. You have something to offer. And I think because we had some initial traction with that, we're like, okay, focus on that one thing, right? And obviously, you know, with a podcast studio, a lot of. In our product, you know, if they want to monetize, that's probably the fastest way that we found. But I'm curious, right? With service providers, you mentioned a couple of puzzle pieces on the flow, right? And I think in my mind, that's how I picture these Lego pieces of like, okay, first we got to figure out what will be that first base layer that we need, like an offer or a concept of an offer.
- [09:21]
B
An offer for sure. The positioning of it. And for anybody listening, there's a couple of ways that you can go about it. The easiest way would be I help X type of person get desired outcome without pain point in X amount of days. Like that's a very streamlined version of an offer. Or another template that works well is if I could help you get X desired outcome without doing Y, the thing that nobody likes to do in seven days, would you be interested? Those are very straightforward examples of offers that typically resonate with folks. But that's the first thing for sure is, is getting an offer. I've heard people describe an offer as an opportunity, I've heard people describe it as a promise. But it's essentially in my mind, I think the biggest way to view an offer is what is the point A, where your target ideal avatar is at and how can you get them to point B or Z, whatever. However far this transformation is, that's how I view an offer, probably. But yeah, that'd be step one for sure.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah. Okay, so now we have the offer, right? And we're like, okay, we take person from point A to point B, transformational, like through your process, your thing, your deliverable. Right now I'm ready to do this ad. Is the ad copy that exact formula you say? I mean we could start with those. Obviously there's a thousand ways that we can go about it, right? But it's like, and then it's like, how do we pick the platform? Like how do people on a service provider, is it depend if you have a local business or if it's like online business, how do you pick the location, for example?
- [11:06]
B
I do think it depends on the business for sure. Just as like a general note, meta is typically great for volume of leads, not necessarily quality. Like you're going to have to add some friction in between the person who sees the ad to then scheduling and calling. By friction, I mean you're gonna add a couple questions. They gotta fill out some qualifying answers before they actually get to your calendar. Whereas Google Ads, those are great, they cost a little bit more in terms of reaching folks, but they're usually a little bit more high quality because those are people who are actively searching. And you can think of a distinction in general of just how we consume on those platforms, like on meta. I'm not going onto Meta because I need A roofer. And I'm searching and I'm like, oh, nice, you know, I'm going to search for my roofer right now. Whereas Google is like, oh, my roof's on fire and I need to like find somebody immediately. So it's two different type of buyers for sure. But in terms of next step in creating the ads themselves, there's a million ways to do it. Of course, like you mentioned, if I was, if anybody's just starting out, I would keep it as simple as possible. They say that you spend about 80% of your ad budget on your headline. So think of a really good clear headline that's attention grabbing but also you, you don't want to confuse people. Like, if you do roofs, people should, I don't know why I'm on the roof example, but people should know that that's what they're going to get. They're going to get a roof built in 15 days or whatever the case may be. You're, you're off for there. So that headline is super important. And then the next thing that's really important is that call to action. A lot of times while read ad copy and it's like you have a great headline and you're really catching me with the ad copy in the middle. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get this, this and this. And then there's no clear next step. And the whole point of writing an ad is in part of building that trust, because it is cold traffic is people always want to know if you can do what you actually say you're going to do. And it starts with your ad. So if you say the next call to action is click this link and you're going to fill out a form and they click a link and it goes to like a YouTube video of you, like YouTube VSL or something, they're gonna be like, well, that's a little, that's not right now I don't trust you as much. So the whole part also with cold traffic, because that's what paid ads is innately is trying to build that trust as quickly as possible and as authentically as possible. To wrap it back to your example of the podcast guest, there's high trust there. Like you've met with them, you had a really great conversation with them. There was no idea of a sale in the initial conversation. Like there wasn't any of that. So like, they're very open and trust is really high. So when it comes time to have that conversation of how can we work together, it's A much more natural flow. Whereas coming from cold traffic, they really need something. Of course they have a problem. That's why they're on the call with you. But they don't. They probably don't know you unless you're running a ton of ads or unless your organic is killing it. This might be the first time you've ever interacted with this person. And now suddenly you have to build that trust. So there's a ton of different ways you can do that throughout your. Throughout your ads. But that's something to keep in mind of showing your credibility throughout the ad process. So by the time that they get on that sales call, they do know you.
- [14:39]
A
Yeah.
- [14:40]
B
Aspect of it.
- [14:40]
A
No, absolutely. I love, like, I love those mega merchant. I love that, the idea of doing that. And you know, I think like, locally for our studio, we. We run some very basic, you know, $200, you know, thing to keep us at the top of the search for Google. And that that gets us a few calls a week where people are like, hey, you know, I want to come in and I want to check out the plays and. And then we do the tour. And then after the tour, we kind of find out a little bit more, right? I personally, if you have a physical location, like to bring them to the location and kind of, you know, show and tell type deal. But I think a lot of people get so caught up on. On the ad itself or maybe the copy of, like, you know, obviously, you know, pay attention to that, but then we don't pay enough attention to like, what's the experience after you say, like, keep it simple, right? Keep it relevant at the end of the day. I remember when I was running the fitness studios, that was a big part of it, right? Like, corporate would run these ads for, like, the whole area. And like, that was our battle because we were like, these ads suck. It's like corporate approved. You know, it's like banners that the entire country was running. But we're like, how can we make these ads more personal to us? Because at the end of the day, they're coming to meet us, right?
- [15:51]
B
Yeah.
- [15:52]
A
And then, you know, they see these random coaches like, oh, I want to see coach Mike. And we're like, oh, spoiler alert, Coach Mike is a corporate guy. But we really focus on that experience kind of coming back. So not just that, right? But also with this whole online world, there's a mix of things, right? You have a service, right? But you also, you know, the landing page and the sales page and the thing. And, you know, we Think we need a funnel of like a thousand pages, right? Like what, what is that? What does that look after when people click? Okay, I fill the application. You mentioned a path that is very simple, right? Add to application to call.
- [16:29]
B
That's it. That's it. That's super easy. That, I mean that's, that's not super prescriptive across the board, but that is something that I have seen consistently work. And it works, I think, because it's simple and it gets you everything you need and it's simple for the person who's doing the ad. So. Or sorry, filling out the form. When I say you could even do lead forms inside of meta, a high intent lead form. So basically as soon as they click on the ad, meta will populate, bring up a form, so they never even leave the site, which is great. They fill out all the questions that you want them to, you have all that information, then they can schedule a call. The benefit there is, it's still quote unquote, an application. So you can, you could even not have them go to a call if you wanted to reach out and be really personal and be like, I qualified you myself and you can, you can go to the next step. Another thing you could do, which is another very simple ad structure that there's pros and cons to both of these. This one I would say is a little bit more of a con because you don't get folks email addresses, which I think if you have a lead form inside of the meta, you're getting their email, you can put them into a drip, you can set them up with a bunch of lead nurturing and things like that to reach out to them. But you can also do ads straight to your DMs on Instagram. And that works well for people who are, are really relational like yourself, who want to have a conversation before they even happen to get them on a call. You're going to do appointment setting either way. With the high intent lead form, you're probably going to have to call them to schedule the call. But if you're doing appointment setting inside of your dms, one advantage you have is that everybody is addicted to this app and is getting on it every single day. So the likelihood that they're going to see your message is going to be harder for them to ignore making, making your likelihood to book more calls higher. The downside is you might not get as much qualifying in terms of they're filling things out and you have the answers right away. You're going to have to probe that out of them throughout the conversation. Yeah, but it's still a really easy funnel to set up because it's one ad straight to your dms. That's it. There's. That's as much setup as you need.
- [18:42]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And I think like in today's day and age, a lot of people are like, you know, operating from like their mobile devices. Right. We had a little girl that came in and recorded a podcast and we sent the files and you know, we record a little techno bubble here, but like 1080 or 4K depending. Right. And those files can be a little heavy. And remember sending those files and actually, hey, how are you going to edit? Do you have an editor or like, you want to process that? And she's like, no, no, I'm going to edit myself. I'm like, sweet, awesome. So assuming she has a desktop or a computer, right? Then she goes, hey, your files are not downloading into my computer. And you know, Google Drive. I'm like, this is very weird. I'm like, check your storage or whatnot. It's like, can you send me a screenshot? And the screenshot I receive is the phone. She's trying to download this like 50 gigabyte video to a phone which probably do not have 50 gigabytes of memory available. And I'm like, yeah, this is not going to be possible. So to me, like, that was a reality check. A lot of people are just using this as like the main device for that. So it's really interesting because that also translates to like, let's put ourselves in the shoes of that person that's consuming that ad. Where is the platform that they're consuming at? And if I remove the friction between that outreach and the conversation, that probably, you know, be a, a good place to start. The more you mentioned friction, right? You mentioned like add friction if you are more qualified, remove friction if you want higher volume. Yeah, right. When you say friction, that means, you know, a couple of questions in the form. Right. Or an extra step in the process, like why would people add friction or remove friction, you know, for a specific service based business. Right. What are some case studies that you worked on that you know, that you guys balance that out?
- [20:32]
B
Yeah. Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's more of if you are getting so many leads and you're finding that most of them are unqualified, you want to add some steps. So you might even have like a lead form in there and for whatever reason, you're just getting a bunch of Jabronis. Yeah. Then maybe you want to have one more step in the process so people can, can make it through. That's typically the rule of thumb. If you want higher quality prospects, the more friction you add, you will be paying more per lead to get them, but they will be higher quality. That's, that's the thing. So there's a, there's a quote in marketing. Whoever can pay the most for their, their lead or to acquire their customer usually wins. And it's because by the time that they get to you, they're, they're warm, they're hot. But that's it, I think, you know.
- [21:23]
A
Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, I remember like initially we were like, okay, let's just have, you know the goes to have conversations at the end of the day, right. I think like with people that we're in a very unique situation because we've always been trying to design like a product. Basically like when we started creating content, we will go to small businesses and we will go to do the content there. And we started the show because of COVID and then people started asking with multipurposing content and that was like pretty new. So a lot of people, we had to educate people on like what that was type deal. And you know, now I feel with the studio is a little bit more streamlined. Like studios, like the way into our world through, you know, podcasting and then there's like other options that people can go do. Right. We have the online platform with business creator club. We have content momentum which is just not the podcast but like full on content ecosystems. But somebody that's brand new might not go there. So I think I'm thinking in my head a really cool scenario is like, okay, how do people initially start interacting with us? Where can we create the most amount of trust relevancy? Where it's like, okay, well there's a physical studio, people go there that by association already is like, okay. It separates us from maybe somebody else that might not have a studio locally, but can we do this digitally? So how do people pick the offer that they want to start promoting? Like is there like a framework that you use? They might have six different offers, right? Do we go low ticket? Do we go high ticket? Do we do in person stuff? Like how do. What are some indicators to help people find that main offer?
- [22:54]
B
Yeah, very dependent on the business. But let's use coaching like a high ticket coach as an example. There's a really streamlined version for those folks that I think is pretty repeatable for most businesses. And it's Done for you, done with you or do it yourself. And you always want to start with the done for you high ticket service because one, it's the most lucrative and two, you have the opportunity to actually build out everything as you sell it. So you might offer a done for you where you haven't built it, like I mentioned earlier, you're testing it. You make your first sale, you start building out that fulfillment and over time, as the fulfillment develops and you create that process, then you can start offering the done with you. Because now you no longer you have the whole process set up. And then if the process is set up, you can even downsell to a do it yourself by turning it into a course or a community like we've discussed. But that those big three are great because it puts you in a position to have the ability to downsell which is a good place to be. Because as long as the core thing is if you can solve the pain point of whoever is coming to you, that's all that matters. So whether it is a done for you service, but they can only afford the done with you, as long as that transformation is still happening, that's fine. And you now have that process in place. So that's good. Another way to look at offers in terms of you mentioned low ticket, low ticket is really good. I'm assuming service based, not digital product based is good for butts and seats. So you might, and this is, this works really well. You might do a transparent offer where you have the price in your ad creative and it's, it's very low. You have a low ticket guy, it's like 100, 200 bucks, 250 bucks or something like that. But you also offer the 2000 thing. When somebody gets on a call with you, all they know is they have a pain and they need it solved. So you might get somebody for the cost of somebody to come on for a low ticket $250 offer, but they end up selling or purchasing the 2K offer just because you have it as an option. So back to the volume thing. People are more likely to be attracted to the low ticket offer to take the call, but they're still open to paying for that amount if you qualify them. It's very interesting. It's fascinating how it works.
- [25:22]
A
Makes sense. Yeah, I love and I think at that point obviously when they jump on the call, that's more like on the sale team or what is your skill on the sale? What would be the script that we follow on different things. But I don't think I've heard the take of go from low to high. You always hear, okay, price anchor high. And then if you have the downgrade, great, that will be really interesting to take. And when we got the studio, obviously the upfront packages or the production that we offer, they're on the lower side. A minimum edit, 200 bucks. And then it kind of goes from there. So if they want to repeat, there's different content plans that they can do, but it can go up to 5k. We have somebody at 10k for example. Right. They're massive content maps. They're like higher production, different things. So when people are like, okay, 200 and then they hear 2000. I remember when we were first having that conversation, they were like, wait, what? They were like, this is insane. Right. So we started receiving, okay, well maybe that's not the right customer for the type of product that we're offering. Right. We started understanding that they might not have a business on the back end and this is something that they're doing a little bit more for hobby or try things out. Right. Or maybe people that don't have an infrastructure to support that kind of stuff. So we're like, okay, well what came out of that offer was the community, they're here. Here's where you learn these things and you can come record here. You're a member. Like, that's totally cool. But it's like total do it yourself offer type, type stuff, you know? And I think like that's also a key. Like that feedback loop is so important. Right. And I think some people are like so caught up, oh, I didn't sell like this one offer. But there's still opportunity to solve that problem. Right?
- [27:12]
B
Right.
- [27:12]
A
Do you deal with that? Like how, how often should be people looking at like their offers and revisiting based on that? Or like, are they like, I'm going to run this ad because this is the product that we sell. Like, how often do you see evolution of the services that they offer?
- [27:27]
B
All the time. And it's more in positioning than it is the service themselves. Because you can be selling the exact same thing but doing micro offers and testing what's actually catching. So that is the same. And I do agree with you that there can be sticker shock there if you do go that route of jumping up. But the thing that comes to mind is twofold. One, this comes up in discovery. So ideally you'll uncover in that first, however long you talk to them on the sales call that, okay, I know you can actually only afford this lower ticket thing that's Totally fine.
- [27:58]
A
Yeah.
- [27:59]
B
Or you uncover that they have an actual pain point that requires the big guy, but you start the customer journey at the low ticket guy. And that's where I think is really crucial is because if you start them on a low ticket and you have a customer journey that ends up building to the high ticket, your lifetime value of that customer is much longer. And that's also the beauty of paid ads is if you get somebody on that low ticket and they become a customer for, you know, two years, three years, whatever the case may be, and start low and end high, that's great too. It's just a matter of getting them into your ecosystem, like you said, because they, they trust you. And you constantly prove yourself with the trust that you fulfill on. I love coming by.
- [28:46]
A
You're good. I was like, that sounds familiar. Did I have lots to think about Fonzie if he was sitting here? Be like, I told you so. Yeah. So I'm imagining like that customer generators, people coming to our world. We can speed up the process with the ads, right? Whatever platform. You know, let's use Google and Facebook for example, or Meta. Meta, you know, probably good at higher, higher volume. We can add friction in order to. As in like a little form to start qualifying them. You know, Google's high intent. Because people are searching already for like that solution that you might have. You jump into like a quick application, qualify them, move them into a call, then you decide like, what offer you might have, like done for you, done with you or done for you, done with you, do it yourself type offers, and then you can move forward, right? And then if they go at the low ticket, then on the back end, you have a customer journey that can help you escalate that. For example, membership a membership long time, you know, lifetime value type. How do you. This is great. So little map so people can follow my crazy mind. Now my question here is like, how do you define success on an ad campaign? Right? I've heard multiple things. I've heard, okay, if we break even, right? How do we calculate, you know, the lifetime average value of our customer? They stay six months. Am I willing to spend six months of that product in ads so we can get that person? Right. That's obviously going to put us under a little bit. But like, how do people play with that?
- [30:26]
B
I think it's a great question. Typically the first thing that you're going to want to look at is your return on ad spend. So if you're putting $1 into ads, are you getting $2 out or if you're breaking even, are you getting good enough information? So if you're doing that test in the very beginning of your different offers and you're breaking even, but you have information that you can tweak and then grow from there, that's great. So return on ad spend is probably the biggest. Your cost per lead and your cost per acquisition of a client is super important too. So you might be willing to spend like if your service is $1500 a month, but the contract length is 12 months, you might be willing to spend 1500 to get one customer because you know you're going to make 11 months of profit on it. So I think it depends. I think all of those things do, are worth looking at to see if you have a healthy campaign. Like your click through rate. Are people clicking through and not filling out the form that might mean you have a bad form. That's too many questions. Like the form you should be able to fill out while you're at the grocery store. You know, like it should be easy for people. But if I had to say one answer, it would be return on ad spend. Are you putting $1 in and getting $2 out, $5 out?
- [31:39]
A
Yeah.
- [31:40]
B
Three is like an incredible baseline for sure.
- [31:43]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's definitely so many pieces. I remember when we were supporting Chet Holmes International with their book launch and you know, we on our side, we were producing podcasts and then we were also producing some supportive content that they were selling as an upsell in their funnel. Right. So they're running ads to a book funnel. And then that book funnel had a bump offer and that bump buffer, like 7x the return on the ad. Right. It was incredible, like a 37 bump offer that it was just a piece of content that supported the lead magnet. Obviously, you know, maybe a little techno bubble here, but like for, you know, service based. I think a lot of people get so lost in those little details that they're like, oh man, I don't have a bump offer. How to. And I, and I think I give you so much credit, Nick, because you gave us like a roadmap of like a very simple thing to like start testing out. At the end of the day, it's like, how can we trigger more conversations right? At the end of the day that's what we want. We want more conversations, right? And then from there, so to start wrapping up, obviously there's always been, I think, a battle of the contents. You know, the organic content versus the paid content, you know, where, where do you sit on it? Like where, where's your stance?
- [32:54]
B
My stance? That's beautiful. Question. My stance is paid ads are great for predictable lead flow and I think that's exactly what most businesses need. They struggle with getting leads. And there's the age old saying, you double your leads, you double your business. And paid ads is the virtually the quickest way to do that. Organic can get you leads, but I think the best use that I'm seeing for most small businesses right now is lead nurturing. So the majority of people that go through your funnel before their call, they're gonna, they're gonna scope you out online. They wanna know that you're legit, you're a professional business that you, like I mentioned earlier, can do what you say you can do. So having content that supports your paid ad campaigns is crucial and that the best way to, I shouldn't say the best way, a very good way to utilize your organic content with your campaigns is let's say somebody goes through your funnel, fills out the form, you have their information and you're talking with them back and forth before your sales call. Send them your organic content that is already providing value on how you solve problems because it immediately positions you as an authority, it showcases your process and it gives you a launch pad for that sales conversation when somebody hops on. So all that organic is not in vain. You could be getting 5 views, 10 views, but if your prospect is watching it before the sales call and they're like, oh, this guy knows his stuff, that's a game changer. It's huge.
- [34:20]
A
Yeah, I love it, I love it. It's a combination of both. I pitched my brother on an idea on Friday, I think a couple days ago, and I stayed up way too late after a movie and I was like, let me have a conversation with ChatGPT. And when we kind of took over the studio, we kind of let the, the social accounts of the studio kind of alone. We haven't like really touched them. It has always fell into the beastrose brand and you know, the Google page that we have with destroyers and different things. But I'm like, what would be, I mean, for me to create content as a content creator, I need to have fun. I need to enjoy it, right? That if that's not happening, it's not going to get created. Right. I have a ton of friction on that side. There's people can get through it. I admire those guys. But for me, I have to enjoy this process too at the end of the day. So I'm like, how can we do this? In a way that can be fun. And I've been seeing these videos that are almost like mini TV shows. And then we did a breakdown in business creator club of a car dealership that they had like these three ladies and they come in and you know, they're having these skits that are like situations in the dealership, right? And sometimes there's a customer, sometimes somebody else. And turns out that a lot of people started like, you know, obviously these videos go viral. They're a little bit different than anything that goes in there in that industry. People start coming in, asking for these ladies. Turns out these ladies are actresses, actors.
- [35:46]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:47]
A
And they're like, what? They're like, yeah, shock. But then brought people into the dealership. So I'm like, man, this is genius. Right? I started looking at some of the content. It's hilarious. You know, sometimes there are situations to the industry like, man, you know what? I want to create a little bit of a bizbros sitcom in studio podcast suites, where studio is a place. But you know, we have these situations where it's like podcasting, creators and entrepreneurship are the main topics. And it's almost like a little bit of like the office type, you know, And I think like that, that thing that's different, you know, because you have these categories of user generated content, you know, talking, talking head content, you know, obviously paid, like teaching, you know, share your screen. Like there's always like these categories that are very common at the end of the day that people can also put ad money behind it, you know, with a call to action type deal. Have you worked with somebody that has like a unique concept like that that were like, man, like, how can we make this very different than what's happening in the industry and testing it with ads if you have like, what has been the results? Like, how do we merge both of those?
- [36:57]
B
Interesting. I haven't had anybody create a sitcom like content to run their ads through, but I think it's worthwhile. I mean, I'm big on return on ad spend, like I mentioned. So a lot of our ad copy is designed to convert. I think that would be great for something like brand awareness. Like you could run ads, so. And really the main point that you're bringing up is getting people to know you, to like you and to trust you. And I think the paid ads could get people to know you're alive. And then a sitcom that's on your socials or something like that could get them to like you. And then obviously the topics that you cover would get them to trust you.
- [37:36]
A
Yeah.
- [37:37]
B
With those three pillars, I think that's usually a good bet. Personal brands are doing really well too right now for. For social and converting with ads.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah, that's. That's a lot of feedback that, that we've been getting. That's awesome. And that's awesome. How to. Okay, to wrap up. Obviously, you know, podcasting, my. My. My favorite medium, mainly because of the relationships that we can build. Right. Like, that's number one long form. I also enjoy talking way too much. So for me, if it's, you know, we can keep it consistent. How have you. Like, how do you. How do you run ads on a podcast that has a business on the back end? Like, have you had. Have you done that successfully?
- [38:24]
B
What I have seen work thus far and the way that I've been doing it myself is I've been using the podcast as part of the lead nurturing process. So running a campaign and then sending the podcast itself to these folks or a lot of times what happens is a little sneaky move is I'll have my podcast and my email signature, and when I email them, I know they go and listen to it and then they tell me about it as soon as they get on the call. So that's. That's been great. Other things that you can do is you can either extrapolate the email list that's coming from your podcast, so having all of those emails of listeners and you can target them directly with a campaign. And that works really well too, because they already know you and they. They trust you a lot. So when they see the ads, they're much more likely to convert.
- [39:08]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Ah, dude, so good. You gave us so many roadmaps to think about and to play. I'm like, overwhelmed with opportunity.
- [39:19]
B
I think that's the thing that happens with paid ads. Just keep it simple. That's the thing. And if you get worried about qualifying your buyer, like with lead forms and all that stuff, just qualify your buyer in the headline of your ad copy. Like, if you only serve agencies that need an ad spend of 3k or need a budget of 1500 to work with you, like, toss that at the top. Like, yeah, qualify people right away and then don't even worry about the rest. Like, just have people come through.
- [39:44]
A
Yeah.
- [39:44]
B
So sorry I had to toss that in there. Keep it simple.
- [39:47]
A
Oh, I love it. I love it. There's an ad that keeps popping up, maybe because I keep looking for ways to work out, but it's like this guy is like, if you do not make A hundred thousand dollars a year if this ad, this is, you know, but if you do make a hundred thousand dollars a year, I will make you a Greek God. And I'm like, damn it, I want to be a Greek God. Come on. Yeah, legit. And it's really interesting, right? Like, him, like, I've seen a lot of it. He must be doing, like, really good. Also, you know, Chris Doe, we had him on the show a long time ago, but he's big time designer and he's amazing. And his workshops on pricing is incredible. Right? Like there he's like, that's the first question I ask is like, hey, you know, what's your budget for this? Like, is it going to be worth it for both of us to even have this conversation? Right? And I think it takes a lot of gut. And like, what you're saying is the same thing, you know, on that, you know, ad headline or ad copy, it's like, qualify them. And I think it's like, we just need to rip the band aid and you'll see, you'll find better people. Right? Let's not be scared to do that. So, dude, so good. Thank you so much, Nick. I appreciate it. How do people connect with you? How do people, you know, hire you to go around, you know, their ads and making tons of money?
- [41:05]
B
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Just listen to the podcast. I got a podcast Nicholas show. I'm sure Luis is going to be on it here pretty soon, so it's only a matter of time. Let's go. That's it. Go listen to the pod. There's more of. More of this information I just yapped about, so that'd be great.
- [41:19]
A
That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming out. Is there anything else you want to add before we head out?
- [41:26]
B
It's been a pleasure. Something that I really enjoy about all the content that you put out as I prep for this is how authentic and genuine you are with people. And I think what you mentioned earlier about meeting with guests and then they ultimately end up working with you is. And how you described your process for that of, like, intentionally building that relationship at the forefront shows a lot about your character. So I appreciate.
- [41:47]
A
Thank you, man. Oh, wow. Change of camera. Here we go. No, I appreciate it, Nick. Thank you so much for those comments. Means a lot. We have a saying, cbb, it can be better. So there's always a way that we can improve. And dude, thank you for helping us level up and maybe we do a little more tactical workshop inside of Business Creator Club for the people there. I think it'll be, like, really interesting to, like, maybe show a roadmap and be like, what are the pieces of the puzzle that we need to put together that you can put together, you know, and go from there. Sweet, guys, thank you so much for tuning in Content Profit Podcast. I'll see you on the next episode. Take care.