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Content Is Profit
Behind the Scenes of a 7 Figure Publishing Machine, Myths About Niching Down & Standout Even in Crowded Markets with John Lee Dumas
00:31:02
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A
What a surprise. We had the one and only John Lee Dumas in the house. That's right.
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12 years of publishing experience and making lots of moolah.
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That is right, guys. We talked about how to build your network faster for growth and success.
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We also share why he shares all his numbers, sales reports and everything. All the secrets to his community and.
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A
One of my favorite, how he gets to keep his community engaged and how he retains such a big community in a world where people just fly from one community to the other. Great episode. So make sure you tune in, listen all the way to the end. And with that being said, let's go have fun. We've got some. Hey, I'm Luis and this is Luis.
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B
And welcome to the Content is Profit podcast.
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In here you're going to get the insights, accountability and drive to create consistently and increase revenue.
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You'll hear from top entrepreneurs, creators, and anything and everything you need to know about content. All this while having a good time.
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A
The golden spot has a simple Entertain, educate and turn your content into profit.
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Let's go guys. If you're enjoying this show, go ahead and hit that bell and follow you on your favorite podcasting platform because you don't want to miss today on all the other episodes. Just going to say that that is.
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A
Right for you to follow us in social media as well. And if today's guest help you move one step closer towards your goal, which I am certain he will, please don't forget to share this episode and leave a five star review.
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B
That's right. So fancy, what are we talking about today?
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A
Today we have one of the OGs, the legend. And honestly, honestly, I just want to dig for gold. I want to. I wish we could his 10 plus years of experience into a headline, but reality is, is we're on discovery mode today.
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B
All right, so buckle up because today, like Fonsi say, we have one of the OGs of the PODC world here with us in continuous profit.
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A
That's right. He started over 10 years ago and now he's one of the flagship podcasts at the Hotspot Podcast Network and one of the most recognized podcasters, I would even say, in the worldwide world.
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He has published over 3,800 episodes, he has over 130 million listens, and he has earned over 24 million macaroos with his podcasting brand.
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Simply mind blowing. We don't have a sound effects I'm making myself. Please welcome the lord of the podcast, soon to be named Prince of Puerto Rico, the entrepreneur of fire himself, Jolly Dumas. What's up, John?
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C
Gentlemen, I am ecstatic to be here. The only problem with being called an OG is that means you're old. So, you know, that's one negative. I kind of miss being the young fresh face in the podcasting space 10 years ago. But you know what? Time marches on now. I'm the prince of Puerto Rico, you know, living in a mansion by the sea. I got no complaints. What am I talking about?
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A
I know you're the young fresh face in content is profit. You know, just saying.
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B
It will always be that. But, yeah, I know. Every time we talk with you, we're.
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C
Like, guys, it's like 80 degrees here.
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B
When are you guys making it to Puerto Rico? And we moved to Florida thinking it was just gonna be good weather. But anyways, today we're not talking about weather, guys. Today we're talking about podcasting gold. And I remember the first time, John, that we saw you speak live, and that specific presentation really changed our output on content, our thought process around content and frequency and consistency. Right. And obviously, you've been so consistent over a long period of time. And the main problem that people come to us is it's like, how can I actually be consistent?
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C
Right.
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B
When they're starting out and you were preaching daily podcasting.
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C
Right.
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B
Everybody's like, what are you talking about? That's so hard. Right. So do you want to share a little bit of, like, why the daily podcasting or the daily higher frequency? Right. Like, what's your point of view around that specifically?
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C
Sure. First off, what was that conference?
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B
That was podcast movement in Dallas, Texas.
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C
Yeah, man. Good times. Good times. Yes. So for me, like, listen, I'm a big believer in the following. It's like you as an individual need to identify a problem in the world that's not being solved and become the number one solution to that problem. That's why, you know, I've always loved your focus and your content because it's like, hey, what's one thing that people are struggling with? For sure, it's not making content, because anybody can make content, but it's profiting from that content that people have such a hard time doing. And so you are providing amazing solutions to that major, real problem. And so back in 2012, I said to myself, what's a. What's a major problem in the podcasting space? Because I wanted to get into a podcasting space. And I said, well, there's a lot of podcasts, you know, a lot less than there are now. There's still a lot of podcasts back then. Yeah. And I said, well, what is not existing in the podcast space that needs to exist? What's something that I wish I could press play on and, and I would love? What podcast would I subscribe to? And to me, the answer was pretty simple. I loved interviews with entrepreneurs. I loved consuming that content. And the shows that were out there were one day a week. And I said, well, what if I did a show that was two days a week that would be twice as many episodes as, as, you know, Pat Flynn's podcast, You know, podcast that I loved when I was just listening to podcasts back in the day. And I'm like, well, if I do two, why don't I do three? And I think you can see this is going. I eventually just said, I'm going to do a seven day a week podcast interviewing the world's most successful entrepreneurs. It's going to allow me to talk with 30amazing people every single month, build my network faster, you know, just connect with people better, all these things. Like, I was so excited about that. And guess what? The day that I launched Entrepreneurs on Fire, it was the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. And you're saying to yourself, that sounds kind of arrogant. Well, guess what? It was the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. And that's why I won, because I owned and dominated the space. How can you do that with your life and your business? And so that's what I was preaching to people wasn't even necessarily doing a daily show because I don't think that is for everybody. What I was preaching was find the, the void in your marketplace that's not being filled and fill that void better than anybody else's. If people are currently filling that void, then, then find out if they're actually filling it. Well, if they're not, then come in and dominate them. If nobody's filling that void, awesome. You're going to win because you're going to dominate and you're going to, you're going to be the only, only game in town. And, and for a long time, Entrepreneurs on Fire was the only game in town. So if you wanted a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, love me or hate me or somewhere in the middle, I was the, I was all you got. Like, it was it. So come and listen. Let's go.
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A
Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty curious. You mentioned the value of, you know, building your network right now. That was one of the things that you, like, briefly mentioned. You know, 30 entrepreneurs every single month, you're building your network faster. You're growing. And I'm curious, how much did building your network play a role in your success overall? Right, because now you're meeting a lot of like minded people.
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C
It was everything. Because listen, I think one of the inspiring things about my journey, if I'm being honest, is that I started with from nothing. In the entrepreneurial space, in the online space and the social media. I had nothing, I had no background in any of this. I was starting at ground zero. So everything I built was built upon the daily podcast, the connections that I made with the people that I was interviewing, the ability to get to know them, to network with them, to be on their show, or whatever their content platform was. Back then, blogs were big. So maybe they write a blog post about me. Twitter was huge. Maybe they tweet something about me. Like it allowed me to have this just supercharged network where if I'm doing one show per week, that's four amazing people I'm talking to. That's great.
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B
Yeah.
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C
But you know what's greater than 4, 30? You know what's greater than 52, 365.
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A
Yep.
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C
And that's how many people I was interviewing every year.
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B
That's so good. I mean, obviously you mentioned here like you're your differentiator, right? Like I was the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. And that to me is a super interesting concept around people designing their publishing platforms. Right. Because there's now there's so much. But we can also go niche on the type of things, the type of conversations, the topics, but also niche on the. Your distribution strategy, like how frequent and how consistent can you be? And when you mentioned this for the first time, it was our first time listening to that concept specifically. Right. So how, how were you able to conquer right, over, you know, 3,800 episodes, so consistent over a long period of time. Because on the back end, right. A lot of the conversations is like, well, that sounds great. And people get very excited, like, all right, perfect. My decision is to do it. And then you start, you know, you open the hood and then you start looking at the intricacies of running a daily interview show and it can get very daunting. So how was that process for you? Initially we're like, okay, how do you set it up so you can for success?
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C
Right.
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B
And clearly it has paid off in the, in a good way. So how was that process for you trying to design your show?
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C
Listen, at first it was just hard freaking work. It was just me waking up in the morning, working all day, and then going to bed. And then waking up and doing it all over again, because I was doing everything. I was finding the guests, I was reaching out to the guests, I was scheduling the guests, I was interviewing the guests, I was editing the episodes, I was letting the guests know the episode was going live. I was sending them the assets, I was writing the emails. I was doing everything. And so it was just work. And I look back on that time very fondly because I had to acquire the skills to build the right team. And the only way that I was going to acquire the skills was to actually do the work, put in the reps, acquire the skills. And so by just, you know, grinding my face off for, you know, a decent amount of time, you know, months and months and months, it allowed me to understand deeply what I had to do and then what I had to train when I did hire that first virtual assistant, how I, you know, wanted them to do the. The. The work that I no longer wanted to do, the things I could take off of my plate. So that was just a very important part of my journey, was that I was willing to work my freaking face off, gain the knowledge and skills that I needed to then hire and train the first person to start taking some of those things off my plate so that I could, number one, get some of that time back and maybe relax a little bit so they don't burn out. And number two, start looking in other ways that I can build the business so I can monetize, create revenue and, you know, find some profits in this world.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Now, I'm. I'm pretty curious about something. Something you mentioned was, you know, you were the best in the category, but also you were the worst in the category, so, meaning you niche down at that time so hard that you were the only authority whatsoever in that category, right? So, you know, fast forward, you've been podcasting, what, 12 years now, somebody trying to niche down, right? And I don't know if you have an answer for this, but I'm curious to. To hear your thoughts. But I feel like the more you niche down, obviously, the smaller the audience gets, right? It might be a little bit more challenging to find that audience. It might be a little bit more challenging to grow on the podcast numbers on that side of things. So I'm curious now, right? Like, somebody. Can somebody come into a category like entrepreneurship, right? Let's just put it broad and have success in there, or do they need to niche down into that category of one to find some sort of success? I'm curious on how do you see both of Them working, maybe in tandem, or you need a strategy that, you know, appeal to both, right? Maybe you're recording certain episodes that is appealing to a broader audience, but at the same time you have those episodes that are niching down.
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C
Step one is to identify your big idea. What is your big idea? What's that huge, awesome, exciting idea that you really have? Excitement, enthusiasm you are fired up about because you love the topic, you love the idea of doing it, but that also you have the skills, the knowledge, the expertise. It's got to be that combo of both things because you've got to be able to add value in an area that you're excited about. But step two, and this is to your question, to your point, and this is where so many people fail, is they just stay at step one, which is their big idea, which is a big idea, and it's probably a great idea. But guess what? So many other people have had that big, great idea and they're doing it. So the competition is fierce and you're going to get swallowed up. It's a red ocean. You're not going to find how to get traction and momentum because that's the hardest thing to do as entrepreneurs. So step two is discover the niche within your big idea that is currently not being utilized in this world. A void that is being ignored, an undervalued part of a market that is not being served right now. Like, you really need to step back and say that is the next step. So not only do you have to think about niching, you have to niche your flipping face off. If you're not willing to niche till it hurts, to go all the way down to where you can look around that niche and say, I'm the best in this niche because either one, I'm the only, or two, the competition stinks, you're not going to win. But if you can niche down and become the number one solution in that niche, then you're going to get what almost every entrepreneur never gets. And that's why they fail, which is traction. You're going to get traction, you're going to get momentum. And that is so key and so hard to attain. But you're going to get it because even though the audience might be small, it will be mighty. And then over time, as you gain momentum, traction, notoriety, brand influence, authority, fill in the blank, then you can broaden that niche out and do other amazing things.
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B
Yeah, yeah, this is so good to action, momentum, niche, till it hurts. I love it. I just put it in like big, bold letters. Obviously you have not just one show, you have multiple shows. So I'm very curious, right? Like, we've had the conversation now for a few weeks, if not months of like, okay, what's the next. What's the next show? Right. What's the next property? And it's been always, it's been always in our heads, right? So obviously content is profit has been our full focus when it comes to publishing. Why did you decide to open different verticals, like in the podcast or brought your podcast in real estate, in a sense. And how were those initial steps into building that?
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A
And I want to add to that question just for context for the listener and all right, your main show, Entrepreneurs on Fire. But then, and I'm looking over here by your name on the Apple podcast app, and you have a free podcast course that I'm pretty sure that thing is still getting traffic. And I think you recorded in like 2018, you have podcasters paradise that I think you stopped recording a few years back, but I'm pretty sure still get some traffic, some listeners. Then you have Daily Fire, which is still active. I think it's been published for about 5 years, 60 seconds of daily Inspiration with John Lee Dumas. And then you have the Daily Refresh, which is also active. And you do it on a daily basis. Very short episode. I think they're like three minute longs. And then you actually have memoir, audio biographies. I found that one curious. I didn't know you actually had that one. But that one you stopped a while back. So I see that you have a lot of like podcasting, real estate. Some projects you have stop here and there and sudden you're still very, very consistent. So I just wanted to add that context for the people listening.
- [16:44]
C
Once I got Entrepreneurs on Fire humming, you know, I built the team, I had the sponsors in place. I was working on Entrepreneurs on Fire five hours a week and that's currently what I do every Thursday I'm in the studio that you're looking at and from 1pm until 5pm I'm doing back to back interviews for the show. That's the only time I'm working on the podcast Entrepreneurs on Fire. My team does all the rest as far as everything else that it takes, post, interview. So that is something that's, you know, I've been able to create. So I had the system, the team, the process in place so that I'm putting in four to five hours at most per week. Yeah, for Entrepreneurs on Fire, that gives me a lot of free time. So I decided I'm going to Try some different things. Let's try a daily inspirational show for 60 seconds. Let's try the daily refresh, which is a quote, gratitude, and guided breathing. Because I'm a big person about, you know, breath and breath work. So these are just some things that I've been excited about. Memoir, you know, I've always been into history. So I said, I'm going to try, you know, doing a. A series around Alexander the Great, because I wanted to learn about him anyway. So I'm like, why don't do a podcast about it? So I did a podcast about it, and I'm like, who's the next person? I don't feel like doing anybody else. All right, must need to show up. But I'm not going to record any more episodes. So I've just been able to try a lot of different things over the years. Courses, coaching, mastermind, conferences, journals, books. Because I've built my core business, my main revenue generator, entrepreneurs on fire, into just a machine. And that machine gives me the freedom to try other things and to just have some fun.
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B
I love it. Every time we're, like, driving, you know, with my wife Katie, she. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's a great podcast idea. And she's like, oh, my gosh, Add.
- [18:39]
C
It to the list.
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B
Add it to the list, Louis.
- [18:41]
A
So anyways, we need to get content, this profit to your level, so then we can start, you know, hitting all those ideas. Yeah.
- [18:49]
B
And you mentioned revenue, right? Like, one of the things that was super interesting to me, it's like how open you are with your numbers, right? Like, you go to your site and it's, like, right there in your face, right? And it's full transparency on, like, how you monetize your show. Is this part of your strategy with the people that you help with your community? Like, why? Why being so open with the numbers around your. Your properties.
- [19:16]
C
Back in 2011, when I was first kind of starting to think about getting into the online entrepreneurial game, you know, I stumbled across a couple individuals who are publishing monthly income reports, and I was just so intrigued. I'm like, this is so interesting. It allows me to learn so much about them, about their business, about what works, about what doesn't work. And it was really during those days that I pledged to myself, hey, if I ever get to the place where I'm creating real revenue, where I'm generating a profit, like, I want to share this with the world. Like, I really want to share, like, how we're making our money, where we're Spending our money, the successes we're having, the failures we're having. I want to do that. So at the 13 month of Entrepreneurs on Fire, we hit the six figure mark, made over a hundred thousand dollars and I started publishing a monthly income report. And we just haven't stopped. We actually just published our 114th income reports.
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A
Wow.
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C
And that's 114 months. And we bring on our lawyer for a legal tip, we bring on our accountants for a tax tip and to validate the numbers. And we just are really excited. And you know, it's one of the most visited sites on our, on our website because it's doing what I, I'm hoping that it does is show people our successes so that they can emulate our successes. It shows our failures so you can avoid our failures and just kind of gives you some great tips and tactics in the, in the tax and legal side of things as well. Yeah, no, I love it.
- [20:51]
B
So I'm, in my head, I'm going through like, okay, imposter syndrome. 100%, you know, like how, like I guess in your head, right? Like when, when we come, when we help people starting to publish. So we ran a 45 live publishing challenge where people had to go live for 45 days straight, right. On whatever platform they chose to do. In that case for us, it was Facebook. Right. And a lot of it is like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to share all of this or I'm going to have to share this story, right? And it tends to be like that first hump when it comes to publishing, kind of opening up a little bit on, on that side, right. And obviously right now with your reports and the way that you conduct your business and the way that you conduct your interviews is full transparency, like right off the bat, right? Like, this is what I do. This is how I do it. This is why we do it.
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C
Right.
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B
So was there obviously inspiration from the story I just told, but was there a moment where you were like, oh, maybe we should not do this? Or what's your tip on people that are like in the fence? Right. Because it seems that it works, right? You put it out there and you are definitely helping people, inspiring them. So many.
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C
Right.
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B
So what's your tip for people that are like in that space right now that they're trying to publish but something's stopping them?
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C
Well, number one, like, you need to realize that. No, like, and trust, like, it's so important to build with your audience, but it's so difficult to build with your Audience and, you know, the fake it till you make it. That crowd that they just never are able to build the real know like, and trust. Like, you want people to go along with you on your journey. So there's so many people that are listening to this right now that are like, you know what, When I make my first $5,000 a month, you know, then I'll start, you know, publishing content or when I make my first 25,000amonth or whatever that number is you have in your mind, that's when they think that they're going to start. And the reality is you start today, you start with what you have. You start with where you are. Because frankly, people at this stage, and I get this, so I'm saying this like, with, you know, some disappointment, but also some understanding. They really have a hard time relating to me because I'm over a decade into my journey. You know, I've been making seven figures a year for 10 years now. Like, it's a business that a lot of people can't relate to. And it seems unattainable to them, even though it's not. It seems unattainable to them. But that's why you as a listener right now that are saying, like, you know, I don't know why, like, I just can't sit down and create the content that I know I need to do. It's because you're not understanding. The truth is that people actually want to see you at your most vulnerable. They want to see you at step one of your journey. They want to go along with you because that's where the real learning is. That's where the real authenticity and transparency is. That's where the know, like and trust is built. So do it today where you are, just be open, be honest, take people with you and they'll be rooting for you.
- [23:45]
A
Incredible. John, I know we're getting here close to the end. I do have one question that I've had for, for a few minutes now and is, I think it's incredible the community that you have created. And I find that even more incredible the fact that you've retained a lot of that community for a very long period of time. Right. And I know community is now the buzzword in the marketing ecosystem. Right. Everybody is building their own communities and it is extremely important. Right. But how have you managed to retain so many people? Especially too, I feel like when communities get too big, it is a challenge to keep them involved and retain them for longer periods of time. So what specifically, you know, maybe if you can pinpoint one or two things have helped you with retaining that community on the long term.
- [24:45]
C
Number one, we're always sharing the latest and the greatest because things are always changing. Things are always, you know, appearing out of nowhere. You know, we can talk, you know, as an example, chat, GPT and just the whole AI movement. I mean, this is changing everything. And so we're always sharing the latest and the greatest. We're always testing new things, whether it be podcast advertising like we did with mopo. We just had, you know, a big share, you know, on our income report last month, about our three months podcast advertising with mopod. So we're always trying new things, sharing the latest and the greatest. So everybody in our community knows that if they stay in our community, they're going to stay up to date, they're going to have their finger on the pulse, because our fingers are on the pulse and we're sharing everything. So that's such a key thing. Also, we really foster the individuals in our communities to be sharers as well, to be supporters as well, to share their journey, their truth, their thoughts. You know, no question is a dumb question. No share is a bad share. If you just got your first 10 listens on an episode, be proud of it, be loud of it, share that. And the next month when it's 23, you're grew by over 100%. Like, let's celebrate that. Like, let's celebrate together, let's share together. Let's be in this together. You know, really foster this sense of we're all here for each other. You're going to stay, you know, up to date and relevant on what's most important to you in the podcasting space. And just the fact that they know that Kate and I are there. We're there every single day in the Facebook group. And right now, I'm speaking about Podcasters paradise, which is the biggest podcasting course and community in the world. We're there in Podcasters Paradise. We're answering people's questions question by question by question, and the value is clear, so they stay month after month after month. I love it. I love it.
- [26:41]
B
Thank you. The whole episode has been a massive ball of value. And, you know, Fonzie wanted gold at the beginning of it, and it was so John, to wrap up the show, there's a question that we love to ask is, and where will you be if you never started publishing?
- [27:00]
C
Great question. I tremor at that thought because I was pretty lost back in 2012. I was in a career I wasn't excited about. Going nowhere. I was, I was searching for inspiration. And if I hadn't started publishing content, it's, it's, it's very unknown, but I would definitely not be standing here talking to you today for obvious reasons. So I shudder at that. I'd be in probably in some very unfulfilling traditional 9 to 5 job, counting down the years till retirement. Now I have the exact opposite life. I live, you know, in a dream house overlooking the Caribbean, and I spend almost every day just by the pool, you know, hanging out with my dog and my wife and, and having a blast and doing what I do, travel when I want to travel, you know, being philanthropic and the causes that, that I believe in. And it's, it's all because I decided to publish content.
- [27:56]
B
That's awesome.
- [27:57]
A
Yeah.
- [27:57]
B
For those having questions around publishing, go ahead, start. The roadmap is in this episode. John, this has been wonderful. Fonzie, anything else you want to add?
- [28:05]
A
Nice one. Say thank you. I know you said there for a moment that you can stop being relatable when you get too big, but John, you do a great job of being relatable, you know, and, you know, one of the best memories I've had from podcasting movement is when we went and had dinner together and I was like, wow, it's so cool to see that John is actually how he is in the interviews. Like, you know, a lot of people, you see them online and then when you meet them in person, they're not the same person. Right. And I can vouch for, you know, everybody, like, you are the exact same person. You are as genuine as they come. And I also want to thank you, man. It was an absolute pleasure having you here.
- [28:51]
B
Anything.
- [28:51]
C
It was a blast. Thank you, guys.
- [28:53]
B
Yeah. Anything else you want to add, John, as we wrap up?
- [28:56]
C
Nope, that's it, man. Just enjoy chatting with both of you today. And HubSpot Podcast Network for the win.
- [29:01]
B
Yeah, that's right, guys. All you got to do is scroll down and all the links are going to be right there to connect with John, their team, and find out more information about what they do in their amazing community. And with that said, thank you so much for tuning into the contents Profit podcast. Go ahead and follow the show in your favorite podcasting platform and on social media. Izzbrosco.
- [29:21]
A
That is right. And if you are on fire after today's interview with John Lee Dumas, make sure you share this episode and and leave a five star review. See ya.
- [29:31]
B
Bye, guys.