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Content Is Profit
How To Outsmart Google in 2025. They’ve Been Doing It For 20 Years. Ft. Jason M. Barnard
00:55:59
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- [00:00]
Luis
Hey and welcome back to continuous profit. This is Luis, half of the bees res and I'm welcoming you to this incredible start of 2025 in the 10 episode series on where we go all the way from frameworks to how to monetize your content in a very specific way. Even how to outrank Google or how to land your dream sponsors. So I think these 10 episodes are going to really help you. If you haven't listened to any of the other ones, go back and they start on January 3rd all the way to January 12th. So super excited to share these with. Enjoy. Hey, I'm Luis.
- [00:36]
Louise
I'm Louise.
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Luis
And you're listening to the content is Prophet podcast. Guys, I'm so excited to introduce you. The person that is on the other side of the screen right now, he educates Google knowledge algorithms. He has figured out how Google understands the world and how to educate it. He can amplify your online authority and credibility without zero additional pr. He sounds like a superhero. And he also played the role of a blue dog in a cartoon for kids that air 25 countries. I had my theory of what cartoon that was. I was incorrect.
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Louise
Were you thinking Dora?
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Luis
No, dude. A blue dog.
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Jason M. Bernard
Blue.
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Luis
Bluey, bro.
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Louise
I don't know. I think, I think Dora has a blue dog.
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Luis
Okay.
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Louise
Actually, I have no idea.
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Luis
We're being sidetracked.
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Louise
All right, sidetracked. Tangent.
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Luis
Tangent alert. He's also a multi award winning songwriter. Guys, I am so stoked and so excited to introduce, please welcome the guy that has been outsmarting Google for the last 25 years, Jason. Oh, Jason M. Bernard.
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Louise
What's up, Jason?
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Jason M. Bernard
Brilliant. Lovely to be here, guys. That's a delightful introduction. Excuse me. And blue dogs, they're everywhere. It seems like this really weird idea, but they're absolutely everywhere. And that's a great point about Google and human beings is it's ambiguous.
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Luis
That's right.
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Jason M. Bernard
That is the hugest question Google has. And that we all have a problem of ambiguity with things that are named the same. And that's going to be a huge part of this conversation.
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Luis
Jason, you absolutely blew my mind. The couple hours that we spent together this week one was on your show. I was coming there. But you also gave me very incredible practical advice. You actually showed up my Google search on the personal brand side and that's something that for me, honestly I haven't been aware of that or intentional about building a personal brand because we're building a business on the side. But it was incredible. And at the end of the call, you answered a ton of questions. And I was like, this is actually a lot simpler than I thought it was gonna be. And I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. So obviously, you know, you've been doing this for a long time. Where do we start? I'm like, tell me all the secrets right now, Jason.
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Jason M. Bernard
Well, I mean, actually, you've already said most of what I need to say. Number one, you start by being intentional about it. We all have a personal brand online. Whether we like it or not, we're all public figures. If we're intentional about how we communicate with our audience, we will be able to get these machines to understand us. And I say these machines. It's not just Google. Yeah. It's Microsoft, it's Apple, it's Facebook, it's Twitter. It's all of these machines. All of the big tech companies are trying to understand the world. They're crawling the web, finding information about you, me, the other Louis, and they're trying to figure out who is who.
- [03:48]
Luis
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
And they're trying to figure out who is who and who does what. And if they can't figure that out, they will just exclude you from everything they do. If they can figure you out, they will include you in everything they do. And obviously, they all have these huge audiences, and you're using them as a marketer in order to get in front of their audiences at the right moment.
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Luis
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
So you need to be intentional about educating these machines. They are AI. They understand the world like a human being, and it's up to you to educate them like you would educate a child.
- [04:26]
Luis
I mean, when you. When you mentioned that, I remember. I mean, you were going through an example, right, of like, hey, you know, we're. We're putting all this content, all the things that we're saying, into almost like a book format, right? Like. Of like, how do we explain these in buckets or pieces or things? And then that goes back into either your company or your personal brand as these, like, content pieces or content pages. Right. And then you basically put it out there for Google to be like, okay, here's the page that says about me and who I am and what I do, and here's the page of my service number one and my page of service number two. And let me tell you, we. I personally, you know, we've been doing a lot of exploration on our service, too, and trying to categorize it of, like, you know, capacity and things and what we do. Exactly. Obviously. Now, with the podcast studio, and I had a question for you where it's like, look, we have all these things, like now personal branding as well, but then we also have the studio, we have the service that has been very fluid for a point. You know, there when we first started, we had no idea, you know, how categorize or how do we sell it. And that conversation, that how with you allowed me to prep a document that explains exactly, you know, what the service does based on the information that you gave me. And when I sent it to the person that was asking, it was so clear to them, that allowed the conversation to continue and move forward. So it was so, so, so valuable. At that point, I'm like, wow, if we could do this with every single person or part of the business and put it out to the world on Google to read it and understand it, it's going to be so much easier.
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Jason M. Bernard
Yeah. And you make an amazingly good point. There is, I'm saying let's educate the machines by identifying the company, the person and each service. And each one has a dedicated page that simply explains what it is, what it serves, what problem it solves, or who they serve and why they're credible. Google loves it. That's how you educate Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, all of these machines. But it's also what humans are looking for. So by pleasing the machines, you're pleasing the humans, but also by pleasing the humans, you're going to be pleasing the machines. So it works both ways, and it's so powerful for that reason. And we're using the machines, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, as an insight into what we're doing wrong for the humans. We correct for the humans. That rectifies what the machines are understanding and representing about us. But at the same time, the humans are getting this incredibly consistent message.
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Luis
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
So what I love is we're using the machines for insights and as a KPI for how well we're making that digital ecosystem clear and consistent in terms of our audience and relevant. Clear, consistent and relevant are the keys.
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Luis
I remember having a conversation with my coach right after, Right after the conversation with you, Jason, I was like, you know how related is? My wife came to me one day and he's like, hey, my co workers were asking me, what do you do? And I have no idea what to tell them. Right. So it's almost like, how do I define myself and what we do in a simple way that my wife can, you know, tell her co workers what I do at a basic level. Right. But that would trigger almost like, same thing like telling Google exactly who we are and what we do, which way you Say, and I didn't see it until you actually put it in front of me. So I really hope that this conversation right now is encouraging people to see it and be like, wow, it's actually not that hard. Like we as content creators, right. Or people or marketers. I feel like there's this thought that we're against the algorithm. How can we beat it? Right. How can we go against it? In a sense, I feel like that's a narrative instead of like, how can we help the algorithm to show what you know, they're already wanting us to show to the world. Right. Is that. Am I correct on that statement or am I just saying weird things?
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Jason M. Bernard
No, no, no. There are multiple things in what you just said. Number one is explaining what we do, whoever we are, to somebody who knows nothing about the industry we're in is a hugely difficult task because we don't necessarily understand that the person doesn't have the context. And we think sometimes they're stupid, which is terribly rude, but actually they're just uninformed. And you were talking about the blue dog earlier on. I'm going to bring the blue dog into the story.
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Luis
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
The blue dog was called Boo B O O W A and his best friend in the whole wide world was a yellow koala called Koala K W A L A and B's role in the cartoon for children aged up to six years old was to explain the world to Koala. Kuala was super afraid of the world because she didn't understand the world. And Buwa's role is to explain and guide Koala in a world she doesn't understand. So Kalikube, which is my company, K A L I C U B E are here and I'm here to guide and help and reassure everybody in the world that you can educate these machines, but you can bring context to the machines, explain to these machines exactly who you are, what you do, who you serve and why you're credible by giving them a clear explanation with the context they need. So explaining to the machines is very much like explaining to the colleagues of your wife.
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Luis
If I get a bunch of pharmacists to understand what we do with one.
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Louise
I'm curious, how did you get to this thought process? Right. How did you? Obviously you have a big story, engaging with the algorithm, seeing the evolution of Google testing things, but when? Because I feel like most of the message out there is to, like my brother said against it or you hear a lot of the message hack, right? Like you have this tricks, you know, this is gonna make you do X, Y and Z rank better, but it seems like you have a different point of view, which in my opinion is obviously perfect for marketing. Right. Because people don't just necessarily want new. Right. They want something different. Right. They already tried all these other hacks. You know, let me go into somebody else's article and copy it and see how many words they have, and I'm gonna write more words than they do. Who knows, right? All these other Google hacks that are out there. I don't know. I'm not that knowledgeable about SEO. But I'm curious on how did you get to that conclusion of, I guess, collaboration with the algorithm?
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Jason M. Bernard
Oh, I like that question. It's really well put. The point, I think, is that the algorithms are all trying to do the same thing as you are, which is serve the audience. And your audience is a subset of the users of Google, Microsoft, Apple, whoever it might be. So their aim is to serve the subset of their users who are your audience. Your aim is to serve your audience. So we there immediately have Google, Facebook, Twitter, Bing, and yourself having exactly the same aim. At that point, you can take a step back and say, well, how can I be empathetic to this machine and help it to solve its own problem, which is also my own problem? And that's where I come in and say, well, if you look at the problems the machine is having, you can understand where you're going wrong with your audience. If you can then correct that, get it right with your audience, the machine will see that you're getting it right with the audience. It will understand, it will better serve your audience, and it will use you to better serve its audience because it has the choice of you or your competitors. But if you're the one who's helping it serve the subset of its users who are your audience, it will use you, it will recommend you. And that is the key.
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Louise
So good.
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Luis
It's almost as you explain this, I'm imagining a situation where you have the dad and you have the kid, right? You're. You're teaching your kid, I guess, how to be a good person. But let's say you tell your kid to be a good person. You're telling him, hey, this is how you. You are a good person. But then he sees you not being a good person, so then he recognizes that, and then he acts that way, which is not the way that you want your kid to act versus if you're a dad and you show the kid how to behave and you behave correctly and you're. And you show him exactly how to do it, the kid will understand how to behave, and then he'll do exactly what you want him to do. Is that. Is that an accurate representation?
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Jason M. Bernard
Yep. That's a brilliant. A brilliant point and a brilliant way of putting it. The SEO outsmart the machine. Let's trick it. Let's beat the algorithm. Is I talk the talk, but I don't walk the walk. What we're doing is walk the walk, and the machine will follow you. And it's, as you say, exactly like bringing up your kids. So it is a child. All of these algorithms are children. They need you to set the example. They need you to educate them. You are the adult in the room. You are responsible for making sure these algorithms understand who you are, what you do, who you serve, that you're credible, and that you have the right solution for the right people at the right time in the right place. And if they can understand that because you're walking the walk across the entire Internet in front of your audience, you've won the game.
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Louise
So, so is. I actually have somewhat of a little argument in here that I'm a little. Interesting to hear your opinion.
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Jason M. Bernard
Right.
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Louise
Most people, I feel like, like my brother said, right. They see the algorithm as the enemy, right? Something that they need to hack, something that they need to. To be. And the main argument of them is, well, you know, the algorithm wants to keep people in their platforms. And I'm expanding here a little bit beyond search. Beyond search algorithms, Right. Obviously, I'm talking. I think this is mostly representing social media algorithms, you know, that keep you looped in the scroll of doom. And the argument is that one, right, they want to hook you to keep coming back, to not leave the platform. Therefore, they make more money. So at least on search, Right. How is that to the benefit of the company that owns the algorithm? Right. How does the. Because I see this as two different point of views. Right. I'm trying to play a little devil's advocate and be like, yeah, I've said that before. The platform wants you to stay in the platform. But I like more your positive view, which is, I'm collaborating with this thing, that its goal is to serve the same audience that you want to serve. Right. I think there's. They're kind of like polar opposite points of views. But what would you tell somebody that comes like, no, they just want to keep people on the platform to make money. How would you approach that conversation?
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Jason M. Bernard
Which is a brilliant question. I come from the Google world, where Google wants to solve the problem. Of the user, and to do so, it recommends the best solution it can find. And your aim is to make sure that it's recommending your solution as the best solution. And we use Google because we're looking for a solution to a problem or the answer to a question, and we trust Google. So Google will try to keep people on its platform to generate ad revenue, but ultimately we'll always look for the perfect click. And it's officially called the perfect click, which is the click when somebody goes through and buys converts, solves the problem, whatever that might be. So that's my perspective, coming from the world of search engine optimization. You mentioned social media platforms. Their aim is to keep people within their walled garden. They're saying, the longer I keep the user, the more ad revenue I can generate. And there's no reason for me to send them elsewhere because we're simply having a conversation, whereas Google's trying to solve a problem. But that actually ultimately doesn't matter to you, because if you can educate the algorithms of Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Apple, it doesn't matter. All these machines the same Amazon, if you can educate them as to what you, who you are, what you do, who you serve, that you're credible and which solution you can offer to whom, at what time, they will put you in front of their audience, keeping that audience, your audience, the subset of their users who are your audience within the platform. But ultimately you want to convert. Once you've got their attention, satisfied, their curiosity about you, thanks to these algorithms who are presenting you to quench the thirst that they have for that curiosity about you, then you can sell to them.
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Louise
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
And ultimately, I think we all have to remember that we don't sell to people without them knowing who we are and trusting us.
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Louise
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
Stories. Who we are, what we offer, that it solves their problem and that they trust us. So whether it's on social media and we don't get them until the very last moment, or it's on search, where we do get them often before the last moment doesn't make any difference. We're looking for these algorithms to bring people down the funnel for us. And that brings me to another point, which is generative AI in search, which is what's coming next in Google and in Bing and Perplexity and chatgpt, is that we have to educate the machines about our funnel. What does our perfect click look like, and how do we get people to that perfect click, and who do we want to get to that perfect click? And if we can educate them about that they will all bring the person to that perfect click. So this is a universal approach and a universal strategy, which is what I love. If you found something universal and it's simple like this idea, you've got it right and you've nailed it.
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Luis
So good. Actually, this morning I had an example. So we're uploading the podcast episode to YouTube, which is part of Google, right? There's a section where you can actually list it as a category, and I think is the how to or the education category. Then it opens a sub menu that I've never seen before. I don't know if this is new. And we, on our episode on our podcast, we don't categorize education, but what happens was like, how do you. It starts asking you questions like, what problem are you solving? How are you problem this. How are you solving this problem with the video, for example, right? And it's like three or four questions that help you describe what's happening in the video, which is probably helping Google on YouTube know how to place this video for better exposure to help more people. And I thought it showed up literally after a conversation. And I just sat there. I was like, this is exactly what Jason was talking about. How do, like, by doing this, we're educating the platform. What are the problems that we're solving in that case with YouTube videos? Right? And we dove deep in the mastermind, where you were talking about how YouTube and video content now on the back end is grabbing the transcripts and the things that you say and your name and all these things. And it's fitting the database. So that's why we have to be so consistent not only on our websites, but also on the things that we say on the podcast interviews that we are in, right. On the podcast that we host. Because all this information is educated the platform. And the more consistent we are, the more we're going to be ranking for the things that we want to rank. Am I correct on this?
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Jason M. Bernard
100%. And you bring in the point of multimodal. That's what it's called. Multimodal is actually multimedia. So the geeks in the world will say, oh, multimodal. And it's the new mum model that a couple of years ago Google introduced it. Everyone got overexcited. But it actually just means Google is using multimedia content to. To solve problems instead of just text, which was the historically what they did. So we bring in video, we bring in podcasts. And I didn't know about the multiple questions, but yes, they are analyzing the audio of this podcast on YouTube and on the podcast platforms. And they're trying to figure out what's the category, what are the questions, what are the answers and what problems are we solving? And it's problems within an individual video.
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Luis
Yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
Or a podcast or even an article. And these machines want to break your content. Sorry. They want to identify what the category is, number one. And get that right. They want to identify what the overall problem is with the overall solution and then break it down into the mini sub questions, sub problems and sub solutions. And if they can do that, then we've got what Google call, excuse me, I would call it fragmented indexing and fragmented work on their part to understand what the different chunks are, the different fragments they can bring out that solve a problem quickly. Because if you turn that around, as a user, I don't want to watch a 30 minute video to solve a very simple problem like how do I bang a nail into a wall? I want to jump straight to the part where the guy or the woman bangs the nail into the wall and says make sure it's straight or whatever it is. I'm very bad example. Yeah, that's what they're trying to do. Because video is something that people want to consume. A lot of people prefer to consume but don't want to watch the whole thing. They want to jump straight to the part that answers their question or solves their problem. That's where they're coming from.
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Louise
I have two questions. There are sort of different way before that question.
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Luis
Before, before that question. I just want to give an example of what you just said yesterday. I was looking for a specific solution on, on a specific software, right. I was like how to do X on this software. And the first couple of articles that came up, the second one gave me a solution right away. The first one was a massive blog post with like, this is the software, how to use the software. I'm like, I don't want to know any of that. Like, so I started scrolling all the way down to. I'd find like the one paragraph that said actually how to do the thing. Right. So like two total opposites. And I guess like that's the new trend or that's the new behavior, right. That we're seeing.
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Louise
Well, I've been on Google. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Jason.
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Jason M. Bernard
No, no, it's a great point because those long articles that tell you everything are traditional SEO because that's how you could rank on Google. Get to the top with Google by writing a complete article. And as you say, it starts with what is the software who published it? When was it published? You're going, I really don't care. I want the solution to my problem, which is very specific. And I've just remembered the word. It's not fragmented indexing, which I've just called. It's passage based indexing. And they break the content into passages so that they can send you to the right one. So Google are trying to play the double game is either they send you to the one article that simply solves that one problem, which is preferable for them and preferable for the user, or if they can't do that, they will send you to the traditional SEO article, try to send you directly to the passage. That makes sense. But they can only do that on Chrome browser. They can't do it on Edge from Microsoft or any of the others. So that's obviously limited. So it's not the preferred solution. So traditional SEO is dying or has died. SEO hasn't died because SEO is just packaging content for Google. Yeah, but traditional SEO, the way we used to work with word counting and link counting is no longer relevant.
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Louise
So rather let's say I search for how to start a podcast rather than the first article that's going to pop in there being a 2500 word. Starting by the history of podcasting. Right. Going all the way to eventually showing you the couple steps you need to start a podcast. It'll be something more short and concise, straight to the point. This is how you start a podcast. You know, get your equipment. Step one, two, three. Interesting. That's. That's good to know. I feel like that could be a relief for people. Feel a part of the monster of SEO is I have to write 2500 words for every single article so I can rank first part of the deal.
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Jason M. Bernard
Right. Well, there are, there are two monsters of SEO, as you call them. One is it's geeky. It's not. It used to be 80% geek, 20% content. Now it's 80% content, 20% geek. That's a relief for us all.
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Louise
Yeah, yeah.
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Jason M. Bernard
But the content is no longer let's write amazingly huge amount of content. It's write the amount of content that solves the problem that the user is looking for. Yeah, don't write more, don't write less. And Google is moving from search to answer to assistive search is when it says here are 10 choices. Go and have a look. Louis just said, I went to two different articles, didn't like the first one, went to the second one because Google's saying, here's a choice of 10, because I'm not sure if it was sure, it would send you to the one answer and it would say, here's the website with the one answer. You don't need to look further. Yeah, assistive is. I'll send you to the answer to the question you've asked, which is, how do I start a podcast? Once you finish that on the serp, which is the walled garden, let's keep you on the serp, which people content creators hate, it will then say, here's the solution to problem number one. How to start it. The next step is this. Do you want to know the next step? Do you want to know that step? Do you want to know the next step? At which point your job as content is profit or the as a company is to make sure that as Google guides you down or guides the user down, that assistive, conversational approach, it is educating the user, its user. Always remember, it's Google's users who are using Google because they trust Google. They're not your user. Until Google says sends them to you, it guides them down the funnel. At some point, they say, who can help me with this? At the point at which the user asks that question, or Google suggests that as a question, which often happens, which is what assistive engines are all about, it will say, the company who is best placed to help you specifically is bizbros, because I have understood that they can serve you, the audience, because they do B2B podcast production. Then it can bring them down your funnel. How much does it cost? What services are included? What's the client support like? To get to the point when they click on the last link, which is the perfect click that we talked about earlier on, and they're already ready to buy. So what we've done there is create your entire funnel in Google's brain or ChatGPT's brain or Bing chat's brain, and it can then draw the user down the funnel in a conversational manner where Google OR Bing or ChatGPT are recommending you at the point at which the person is ready to buy, and that last click is the perfect click for them and the perfect click for you.
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Louise
Yeah. All right, Jason, I'm going to back up here a little bit. I think all the questions build up upon each other. I'm going to share all three questions and then you can tell me which one we should start with first. The first one is, you know, you've been talking in. I'm making quotes here. Perfect base scenario in the sense of, you know, you Put your content out there, and then Google will direct traffic to you. Yeah, but there's a lot of competition, right? There's a lot of people. If I put. I just search in here, how to start a podcast. You know, a massive company like bosssprout pops in first. Obviously, there's some sponsored posts, but then the first organic one is Boss Sprout. So how do we get Google to share us instead of the competition? How do we outrank them? Now, the next side of the question is we're talking about a podcast. We're talking about specific solutions. Who are we? What solution are we offering? And you did talk about that kind of, like, fragmented type of content, but let's say a podcast like ours, right? We're talking content is profit. There's multiple different ways you can create profit through content. Right? Different solutions. Like today we have you. Right? The goat of SEO. Some other days we might have somebody talking about YouTube, somebody else, you know, talking about podcasting. When we're not. I mean, I guess the main problem we're solving is a bit general of, you know, content creating profits. But when we go into the nitty gritty of each episode, it's a very specialized. Different problems. And even inside of the conversation, then we have different problems that we're solving. Right. A lot of the times, the conversation might go into mindset, and then we go a little bit into the tactical part of whatever topic we're covering that day. So how do we solve that? How do we rank when you have, let's say, somewhat of a general conversation podcast, and the last one is how much importance do terms still have? Right? Like, do I want to rank on how to start a podcast, or do I want to find a term that might not have as much competition, if that's even a thing. Now, right? With a whole new type of SEO, should I go for how to start a podcast, or should I go with how to start a local podcast in Florida? Right.
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Jason M. Bernard
Yeah. Okay.
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Louise
I mean, I can go back to the questions because I know, I know. I just drop a bomb on you. I drop a lot of them. So I can go back if you need a refresher.
- [31:25]
Jason M. Bernard
Right. Well, I hope I can remember number one. And we'll start with the last one, which is do we focus on keywords, which is traditional SEO. The answer is no. We focus on intent, problem, solution. So what you need to do is make sure that you have all of the content on your website that answers every problem. Every question, sorry, solves the problem. So the first question you Said, I've got this global huge solution.
- [31:51]
Louise
Yep.
- [31:52]
Jason M. Bernard
But you need to break it down into all of the questions that people would ask with the ultimate intent of solving that huge problem. But they will approach it either from the huge problem and then realize that that's not the right way to do it and then approach it from the micro problems. Or Google or the other machines will guide them towards that approach of micro problems rather than the whole problem. Or give them an overview and say, well, here are the micro problems that you'll need to solve along the way. So from your perspective, you're saying, I need to focus on the micro problems within the macro problem. If I can give one page that solves or gives the overall overview of the macro problem with links to the micro problems, I've solved Google's problem of being able to present that in a systematic and helpful manner to the subset of its users who are my audience. And that's how you beat the huge corporations, the hubspots of this world. Because, number one, they will never be able to do it in the detail that you can. Number two is you can focus on a specific Persona audience that they will never do. And number three is Google prefers specialization, I. E. You guys are specialized in something very specific. HubSpot are generalists. And people often say to me, and I hear it all the time, and I saw an article today where somebody was complaining about Google and saying, oh, the big companies always dominate. And there's a lot of people who complain about Google's approach, about what Google is doing. And they fail to realize that the reason Google is prioritizing the huge corporations, buzzsprout, whoever it might be, is not because they prefer them per se. It's because the smaller corporations are not presenting the information that they need and they aren't proving the credibility that they need. Because for a niche audience, you're always going to be more credible. If you're a niche company, you're going to be more credible to the audience, you're going to be more credible to Google. Google will recommend a niche solution when it can, but its problem will always be understanding that that niche solution exists in that niche company and that that niche company is truly credible within its industry. I think I answered all three questions. Did I?
- [34:11]
Louise
Yeah, absolutely. And sounds to me like there's actually a main skill here and this skill is not that tactical. Right. Or that technical. Actually, it's more tactical. It's not that technical in the sense of, you know, I gotta go on the back end of this website and Put the metadata and all these things and the keywords and do the keyword research. I think the skill that people can take away from today's conversation is learning how to properly spot problems and then break them down in logical micro problem steps, if you want to call them that way, right. To reach the solution, right. Or we can say we have the main problem. What are the steps that we need to take to find the solution to that problem? And by breaking those down, then create specific content around those, right? So in a way, we are becoming a little bit of a problem sniper out there.
- [35:07]
Luis
Problem sniper. So let me see if I can maybe create out like a visual example, right? So let's say we have a conversation about how generate profit from your content under the lens of investing in relationships, for example, right? So we have a new, new thing coming that we're inviting people over to, to see our system or how we've done it with the podcast, right? We call it Pipeline Platform. So let's say we talk a full episode Piper platform and go into obviously, you know, how that was born. We tell a little bit of the story on the, on the show. We have a conversation back and forth and then we're like, well, here are the steps, right? And step one is like, okay, well the first thing is you have to find a collaboration platform, right? For us was podcasts. Here's, you know, here's a couple of steps on how to start a podcast. And step two is, you know, maybe we need to track the conversation. So we need to use a CRM. So here's how, you know, this is the CRM that we use.
- [36:02]
Louise
He's.
- [36:02]
Luis
Here's how we use it. And then the last part is like, how can we structure the conversation so we can actually generate opportunities, right? So we have the macro problem, which is how do we actually generate profits through Pipeline platform framework. And then you have three micro ones which are start a podcast, track your conversations in a CRM, and then what are the things that we actually say? Kind of scripting, right? So then that's the main episode. So to be able to serve Google on this new thing that's happening and the evolution of SEO, you'll be, will have a macro article on the full Pipeline Platform kind of overview. And then when we get to the, the micro problems, right? It's like, okay, here's how to start a podcast. People can click there. And it's a very specific way on. Here's how you start a podcast, right? You go to this platform, you do X, Y, z, blah, Blah, blah. And then the second problem is like, here's, you know, how to choose your CRM, for example. And then step one, step two, step three, something very specific that way. And then the last one is like, hey, by the way, here are three examples of scripts that you can say after your interview so people can actually, you know, so you can generate opportunities. Would that. Is that accurate? That's how that, that's what I was picturing with our model of podcast today, which is conversational, but we can still extract little ones. Does that make sense?
- [37:21]
Jason M. Bernard
Yeah, it does, 100%. It's a really good way of explaining it. I would take it another. Perhaps another step further is to say if you think about your funnel and all the questions in the funnel, you start answering the questions, every single question you can, starting at the bottom of the funnel and moving upwards. So first of all about your company, who are your bottom of funnel prospects, who are your clients? Answer all of those questions first. So it's very much branded and very close to your products and services. Then you move up the funnel and answer the more and more general questions. That's the best way of doing it because it's the micro questions about your company that closest to your company that are going to be the ones that drive small amounts of traffic, but very, very, very relevant traffic. Ready to convert. The perfect click is much closer when you're at the bottom of the funnel. So we're aiming at the perfect click. The fastest way to results is to answer the questions that are closest to the perfect click. The second thing that I would. Oh, sorry. The second thing I would say here is answering them is this huge task. I mean, there are literally hundreds of thousands of questions we could all answer. And what we've done at Kalicube is used generative AI to our own advantage. So we have what we call Kalibot and it's been trained on 2 million words of things that I've said or written over the last two years, plus our website. And then we simply ask Kalibot what questions would our prospect ask for Knowledge Panel Services. And it will spit out 50 questions. And the answers to the questions are more or less correct. We correct them and then we have the FAQ. All of these question answers spat out by generative AI human corrected always. Because generative AI GPT4, for example, or Gemini at Google is not very good at the moment.
- [39:17]
Luis
Yes.
- [39:18]
Jason M. Bernard
But what we then do is we can feed those question answers back in to the Kali bot, which is trained on GPT4. It's our bespoke version or our adapted version of GPT4 ChatGPT. And we can then feed the questions, answers back in and then ask it more. Can you give me more questions and answers? And it will. And you can have this iterative process of just generating questions and answers. It goes very quickly. But always remember to human correct absolutely everything, publish it publicly, then the bots will get that and it will get your specific approach and your specific niche. That helps it to understand that you can answer the questions, solve the problems of the subset of its users who are your audience. Which brings me to the final point, which is never forget, all of these machines are simply the interface between two human beings. You're a human being trying to sell to another human being. That human being is looking for a solution to a problem, and you are potentially the company or the person who can solve that problem.
- [40:21]
Luis
Yeah.
- [40:21]
Jason M. Bernard
The machines are simply trying to match the two together. So they're always an interface. And you're communicating with another human being initially through that interface. So you're simply trying to, let's say, manipulate that interface to push its users to your solution. And if you can do that and you understand that, then you're winning the game again.
- [40:44]
Luis
So good.
- [40:45]
Louise
Yeah, this is very, very interesting. I'm assuming the person listener is hopefully taking a lot of notes. Right. And learning a lot, and I think in a way redefining a little bit of their SEO knowledge. That has definitely happened to me right now in this conversation. Right. It has made it less scary. But at the same time, now I have questions on, okay, how do I start? How do I, you know, where do I go to improve my SEO on my website? How do I do this?
- [41:22]
Luis
Obviously go reach out to, you know, Kylie Cube.
- [41:25]
Louise
That's obviously step one.
- [41:27]
Luis
Step one, yes. And then step two.
- [41:30]
Jason M. Bernard
Well, I mean, at Kalicube, I'll be really clear. We have an approach which is. I, Jason Barnard, kalicube as a company. 20 people working at Kalicube, a hugely talented team, have figured out the solution to digital marketing. It's not, we think we found something that might help. It's we have the solution full stop. Because this is so powerful. Because it's digital marketing for a company or personal branding for a person or marketing for a podcast. That's huge. We can't serve everybody in the world. We don't have any hope of serving everyone in the world. But we're the only company, and I'm the only person who has this approach. We share everything for free on our website. Kalicube.com K A L I C U B E.com or search Kalicube K A L I C U B E Because we know everybody can do it themselves. You said this all suddenly sounds less scary. It's simple. It really isn't complicated. When I. When you figure something out that's universal, simple and easy to implement for anybody, you know you've got it right. Simplicity is the hardest thing to get. Yeah, we share it all free on Kalicube.com come to Kalicube.com, we've got PDF downloads, videos. I think we've got hundreds of hours of videos, millions of words written PDF downloads. Take it all. It's free. Yes, because.
- [43:01]
Luis
Sorry, just excited. Let's go.
- [43:05]
Jason M. Bernard
Well, there are a couple of things, is how are we going to make a living if we share everything for free, which we do. Oh, and I'll tell you the reason I share everything, everything for free. It wasn't a strategic decision initially. It's that if you ask me a question and I know the answer, my nature is I cannot not give you the answer. And my team tell me off for giving everybody the answer to all the questions they ever asked me. But that's my nature and I'm not going to change it. What we then do is say, well, everybody can come along and do it for free. When you do it for free, it takes you time to learn everything that we've learned. We can do it much more quickly and more effectively and we won't make mistakes. So you might want to take us on to serve you because you want to avoid the mistakes, you want to save time, you want to save resources, you want to save money. Or you come to us when you've messed it all up, or you come to us because the problem is too intricate for a general explanation that you will find for free on our website. It's so specific, we're never going to explain it because it's such a detail specific problem. Then you come to us and we've got that somewhere either in our database, which contains a billion data points drawn from Google. It's Google's data that we've taken from Google. And that's ironic. Google takes data, information, content from other people and a lot of content creators are complaining about it. We've flipped it on Google. We're taking that data, using it to beat Google, which is delightful. We have the data, we have the experience, we know what to do. If your problem is super complicated, super specific and completely out of left field, we will solve it for You. That's the client we want. Because that's the interesting work.
- [44:47]
Luis
Yeah. So good.
- [44:49]
Louise
I'm just gonna say I just googled Jason Barnard and there's so many results about you. This is everywhere. Just go, yeah, that's the proof is in the pudding, right? And I just keep scrolling and scrolling and so much stuff about you. Even the beginning. You know how Google has those, like, nice pictures. It's you.
- [45:09]
Luis
And I can confirm is yes. By the way, this is a pro tip, right. You're wearing a red shirt right now, and every single picture online is a red shirt of you. Is that on purpose? I know the answer, but is that on purpose?
- [45:24]
Jason M. Bernard
Yes. It's branding. And the last eight years, I have never appeared in a professional environment without the red shirt. And it's really difficult to do, but it's hugely powerful because when I'm on sales calls with clients who understand that Kalicube can build their personal brand or solve their digital marketing problems as a company better than they can, more effectively than they can, more efficiently than they can, and cheaper than they can, they come on the call and they say, I was researching this. Every time I searched this or I found something online, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Twitter, I see the red shirt that has nailed it. And it sets me up as the expert in the field, not only because we're always present and I'm always present, but also because I'm visually very easy to recognize at a glance. Not because I'm pretty or because I have no hair or my glasses. It's the red shirt, full stop. So literally, a minute before I came on screen with you guys, I was wearing a blue T shirt, and I changed.
- [46:31]
Luis
Yeah.
- [46:31]
Louise
I was gonna ask, why red and not blue with, like, buoy?
- [46:37]
Jason M. Bernard
It's a. It's quite a long story, but it's actually. It comes from my musical career. I was playing on stage, a music concert, and I was wearing a red shirt in the first half of the concert and a blue shirt in the second half of the concert. Somebody filmed the whole concert instrument in the first half with the red shirt. And as soon as I've got the blue shirt, I disappear into the background. So I will always wear a red shirt when I'm playing music, playing the double bass and singing. And I just thought, probably work in conferences, too.
- [47:15]
Luis
New brand collar for biz Rose.
- [47:17]
Louise
Interesting. Interesting.
- [47:18]
Luis
How many. How many Richards do you have? You go to the store, be like, give me all of them.
- [47:26]
Louise
Yeah.
- [47:26]
Jason M. Bernard
No. Well, exactly. I was in Thailand five years ago, and I was Walking past Taylor and I just walked in and said, can you make me a red shirt? And he said, sure. They measured me. I said, just give me three. And they built. They made me. Sorry, three red shirts. They lasted me four years and I've just got these made. I've got two. But yeah, I've always got multiple shirts, but people always think I'm wearing the same one. And in conferences, when there's three days of conferences like podfest when we met, people think I'm wearing the same shirt every day.
- [47:58]
Luis
But you smell good.
- [48:00]
Jason M. Bernard
Yeah, exactly. But I smell fine. Don't run away. Yeah, but in conferences, what was interesting is podfest, I didn't know anybody. And thanks to you guys and Alex Sanfilippo from PodMatch, I was introduced to a lot of people. But in fact, that isn't necessary because if I turn up the first day, nobody talks to me or I don't talk to anybody, but I wander around. By the next day, people come up to me and say, oh, you're the guy in the red shirt. And they think they know me. Not because they do know me or they've talked to me, but because they've seen me with a red shirt and they've noticed me. And that's a trick I learned from being a musician, is when you're a musician standing on stage because people have seen you and have watched you, they think they know you and they will talk to you significantly more easily. The red shirt does it every time.
- [48:47]
Luis
So cool. Yeah, so awesome.
- [48:49]
Louise
You have some guitars in the background. I warned you, Jason. I warned you. You know, and you, you brought it up. You brought your musician background. Is there anything you're going to play for us today?
- [49:01]
Jason M. Bernard
I won't play, but I can sing.
- [49:03]
Louise
Oh yeah, sing, sing.
- [49:06]
Jason M. Bernard
What kind of song do you want? Do you want a children's song? I wrote 96 children's songs and you mentioned the multi award winner. I won two awards, Davey awards for children's songwriting. Or I can sing the intro song to my podcast. Or the punk folk musician from 30 years ago I wrote.
- [49:27]
Luis
Let's do that. The. The. The podcast intro.
- [49:30]
Louise
Yeah, yeah, definitely the podcast intro.
- [49:33]
Jason M. Bernard
A quick hello and we're good to go. Welcome to your own show, Louie Louise.
- [49:41]
Louise
Nice. I love it. This is awesome.
- [49:45]
Luis
Yes.
- [49:45]
Jason M. Bernard
Studio clap.
- [49:46]
Luis
Let's go.
- [49:47]
Louise
That was epic.
- [49:49]
Luis
Today has. I have hope, you know, I've always seen SEO on that very, you know, world is like, ah, kind of like the thing that's there and we avoid it and we don't Want to talk about it or want to see it or tinker with it, right? And we found video and podcasting like a refugee in content side of things. But this week has been, I think I've, you know, personally, I pass a page and be like, okay, it's time to welcome it. It's not as crazy and hard as, you know, it might seem. It's not as technical as it might seem. It's like, again, very simple. What do we do? How do we help people, you know, consistently over a long period of time? Which is the same thing that we talk about on the, on the content and video site, right? Like, I think there's obviously a lot of synergies and there's a reason and I love, I love where he goes, I love what you guys are about. And it's been a pleasure, man, having you here on the show and educating our community on, on, on this stuff. So I'm sure there will be some comments and some questions. So we'll, you know, we'll send them your way. If you want to connect with Jason, right below you find all the links, go get your resources, go get educated, go tell your company to go reach out to Jason and Calicube so you guys can work together. But is there anything else that you want to add?
- [51:02]
Jason M. Bernard
Jason, I would like to add one philosophical thing which is you were mentioning SEO is scary. It's technical. It's not technical. It's all about content now. 80% content, 20% technical. Don't let the technical aspect scare you. But also we can flip the whole thing on its head as marketers is that SEO is the last in line. The first thing is brand the red shirt, for example. The second thing is the marketing materials that serve your audience. If you've got branded marketing materials that make sense to your audience, you're placing it where your audience are looking so they can see you've got the solution and then invite them down the funnel. All you need to do is package that branded marketing for Google. SEO is simply packaging your branding and your marketing for search engines and the other machines, whatever it may be. LinkedIn, Apple, Twitter, Facebook, SEO and optimizing for machines. Optimizing for AI is simply packaging your branding and marketing for the machine. Simple as that. And if you want to find me, search Jason Barnard, J A S O M B A R N A R D on Google or ask ChatGPT who is Jason Barnard? And it will say Jason Barnard is a world renowned expert in brand search knowledge panels. He's been working in SEO and digital marketing since 1998. He founded Kalicube in 2015. Kalicube is an expert company in managing personal brand and digital marketing strategies for companies.
- [52:41]
Louise
I'm asking. I'm asking ChatGPT right now.
- [52:44]
Jason M. Bernard
Oh.
- [52:47]
Louise
You nailed it. You nailed it. That's pretty good. I'm gonna take a screenshot of this so we can put it on the video, but that was pretty on point.
- [52:55]
Luis
Hey, I. I mean, that proof is the pudding, baby.
- [52:58]
Louise
Let's. That's so epic.
- [53:00]
Luis
What a. What an incredible demonstration here, man. Of exactly, you know, what you guys do. And so, so cool. We're gonna keep this episode as a resource for the community as well, man. I think it's a great introduction to. To what you guys do on and all this craziness that's information and the Internet and it's gonna create some path and light into a lot of the companies and the people that we help. So thank you so much again. Fonsi, is there anything else that you want to add?
- [53:26]
Louise
No. This was extremely entertaining, educational. I appreciate you, Jason. It was awesome. I learned a lot today.
- [53:34]
Luis
Sweet, Jason.
- [53:35]
Jason M. Bernard
It was a lot of fun. Yeah, no, it was a lot of fun. You guys asked the right questions. You asked them in the right way. That made me reiterate what I've been saying for the last 12 years that I've been working on for the last 25 years. But you've encouraged me and helped me to say it in a way that makes a lot more sense to people who don't come from the geeky world I come from. Thank you so much.
- [53:59]
Luis
Absolutely. Well, with that said, guys.
- [54:04]
Jason M. Bernard
Thank you.
- [54:04]
Luis
So much for tuning into content Profit Podcast. Going to follow the show in your favorite podcasting platform on social media @bizbrosco.
- [54:12]
Louise
That is Randith Jason here help you move one step closer towards your goal. Please don't forget to share this episode and leave a five star review. And don't forget, guess how many alms my brother had. We got surprise for you.
- [54:25]
Luis
This has been the highest so far.
- [54:27]
Louise
See ya.
- [54:28]
Luis
Bye, guys.