Quickest Way to Get Paid: From Zero to Sales in 5 Days: The Tiny Challenge Playbook

Summary

Podcast Summary: Content Is Profit – Quickest Way to Get Paid: From Zero to Sales in 5 Days: The Tiny Challenge Playbook

Podcast: Content Is Profit
Hosts: BIZBROS (A & B / “Luis” and “Fonzie”)
Guest: Richmond Dinh
Air Date: November 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

This high-energy episode is all about demystifying the fastest, most straightforward way to generate sales and validate your offer online—through what guest Richmond Dinh calls the "Tiny Challenge." The BIZBROS and Richmond dive into how this one-on-one, five-day challenge approach helps not just beginner coaches and consultants close their first clients, but has also netted veteran entrepreneurs multiple six-figure windfalls. The discussion covers the origins, framework, psychological underpinnings, and real-world results of the Tiny Challenge, with plenty of tactical advice and personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is the Tiny Challenge? (04:08–06:20)

• Richmond: The Tiny Challenge is a super-focused, five-day, one-on-one challenge (not a group event). Each session is 30-45 minutes. It requires no audience, tech stack, email list, or pre-built offer. The format removes most friction and quickly validates an idea while getting paid.
• Key Quote: “You don’t have to worry about big marketing, a big launch, or the tech. You just need to start with one person.” — Richmond (05:18)

2. How It Beats Traditional Launches and Funnels (06:22–08:53)

• The hosts compare the Tiny Challenge to other approaches they’ve tried: drawn-out podcasts, group challenges, large Facebook events—all of which required a lot of logistics, heavy marketing, and resulted in either slow sales cycles or great relationships without many paying customers.
• Fonzie: After running both, the one-on-one Tiny Challenge made “100 times more money.”

3. Who Can Use This? (08:53–10:02)

• Richmond: “Anybody can use it, in any niche.” He’s never seen it not work—mortgage brokers, B2B, trainers, grief coaches—because ultimately, it’s a simple, scalable customer acquisition method.

4. The Framework of the Tiny Challenge (13:00–15:46)

Richmond lays out the framework:

• Identify Your “Tiny Who”: Niche down who you want to serve.
• Find Their Top Problems: Use tools like ChatGPT to clarify what marketable pain points to target.
• Invite to the Challenge: No fancy tech—just reach out one-on-one.
• Five Day Breakdown:
  • Call 1: Discovery, uncovering the “four Fs”—future, frustrations, fears, and failures (15:05)
  • Calls 2–4: Teach and guide—core content that helps them solve a part of their problem.
  • Call 5: Reveal your offer, tailored to their needs identified during the challenge.
• Key Quote: “Quite often, your offer is just created on that last call.” — Richmond (15:46)

5. Framing the Sale & Building Trust (17:35–18:44)

• Fonzie: Loves that the offer is “pre-framed” on Day 1, which eliminates anxiety about the sales moment. Setting expectations keeps everything transparent and positions the sale as a continuation of value.
• Richmond’s Metaphor: “It’s like telling your kids, after dinner, we’ll brush teeth, then go to bed. You mention it multiple times—it doesn’t come as a shock.”

6. How to Condense Value & Focus on Outcomes (20:01–24:12)

• Richmond: Don’t stress if your calls run over; people give their time before they give their money. But aim to trim through experience—delivering outcomes, not just duration. Use the “dentist story”: people pay for quick solutions, not hours.
• Key Quote: “People always give you their time before they give you their money.” — Richmond (20:13)

7. Scaling the Tiny Challenge: Shadow Seats (24:30–27:19)

• After 100 one-on-one coaching sessions (or 20 Tiny Challenges), you can scale by inviting “shadow seats”—others who observe your 1:1 challenge and are shown the offer at the end as well.
• Results: Richmond ran a 10-person shadow seat challenge and closed 6 new clients in one round; later repeated with 150 watching (and buying).
• Key Quote: “That’s how you make hundreds and hundreds of thousands from a Tiny Challenge—through shadow seating.” — Richmond (26:36)

8. The Power of Shifting Belief (29:33–31:54)

• Tiny Challenge isn’t just about info; it’s mostly about shifting customer beliefs:
  • Belief 1: The challenge will work.
  • Belief 2: I (the coach) can help them, even if I’m just a step ahead.
  • Belief 3: I’m worthy of getting paid.
• Key Quote: “Believing that you’re one chapter ahead is all you need to transform someone’s life.” — Richmond (30:46)

9. How to Find Your First Participants (32:39–37:05)

• Forget ads and funnels for your first few—just reach out to people you know. Everyone should have at least 10 warm connections; message or DM to invite them. If you don’t, focus first on building authentic relationships.
• Script Example (by Richmond): "Hey, I just listened to this podcast about a one-on-one challenge and thought of you. Would you want to be my first participant?”
• Key Quote: “If you don’t have 10 people to invite, just focus on being a likable person first.” — Richmond (34:30)

10. Overcoming Fear of Selling or Reaching Out (37:29–39:25)

• Most fear comes from focusing on yourself, not the person you’re serving.
• “It is impossible for you to feel fear when you’re focusing on someone else.” — Richmond (37:58)
• If you believe in your product/service, it’s a disservice not to tell people about it.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “No list, no complicated funnels, no selling skills required. Zero friction. That’s why we brought Richmond on.” — A, opening (00:05)
• “I read your book and executed—within a few weeks, we had a few thousand dollars committed.” — A (02:19)
• “The only reason you get self conscious or scared of failing is because you’re focusing on yourself. You can’t feel fear when you’re focused on serving.” — Richmond (37:58)
• “People always give you their time before they give you their money.” — Richmond (20:13)
• “The shortest way is the right way.” — Richmond (39:37)
• [On scaling] “We did a shadow seat Tiny Challenge... presented the offer to 150 people instead of one, and that’s how you make hundreds of thousands.” — Richmond (26:46)
• “I want to give you outcomes, not time. If you get the outcome in 15 minutes, would you want that?” — Richmond (23:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:08 – What is the Tiny Challenge? Why most approaches are overcomplicated
• 13:00 – Tiny Challenge framework, call by call
• 17:35 – Framing the offer early & building trust
• 20:01 – Condensing value + “people trade time for outcomes”
• 24:30 – How to scale: Shadow seat model
• 29:33 – The importance of shifting beliefs
• 32:39 – How to get your first challenge participant
• 37:29 – Overcoming fear and the mindset behind reaching out
• 40:49 – Case studies, results, and “one in three” close stats

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Tone & Style

The episode is dynamic, playful, honest, and super practical. There’s lots of bro-banter, mutual encouragement, and transparent sharing of wins, fails, and learnings. Richmond is approachable, humble, and generous in his tactical knowledge.

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Final Takeaways

• The Tiny Challenge is an accessible, actionable marketing method for getting paid and validating offers—fast.
• It works for nearly every niche and has a proven structure that ANYONE can use without a list or much tech.
• Outcomes and belief shifts matter far more than complex funnels or lengthy content.
• You already have all the relationships you need to start; focus on serving, not selling.
• Once you’ve mastered the basics, you can scale massively with “shadow seat” delivery.
• “The shortest way is the right way.”

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Resources Mentioned

• Richmond’s Book (Free + shipping): [link shared by Richmond in show]
• [Hosts’ clarity challenge at bizbros.co/monetize]

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This summary provides a comprehensive synthesis of the episode’s actionable frameworks, mindsets, and memorable moments. Listen for the full context, energy, and camaraderie!

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys. And welcome back to Continuous Profit. Today we're going to be talking about the quickest, battle tested way to get paid. That's right. Tiny challenges. No complicated funnels, no need for a list, no selling skills required. Zero friction. It's made brand new. No list coaches and consultants. Their first $10,000. But it has also made big time entrepreneurs multiple six figures in one single challenge. And it works. We closed over $8,000 in two by reading the book. That's why we brought Richmond in. The mastermind behind the tiny challenge. To tell you how you can run your first one right after this episode. Why they work and how to structure them from personal experience. It has been the fastest way to get paid and validate an offer risk free. Enjoy the episode. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Content is Profit. Today we have somebody really special. If you have been part of the Content is Profit world and email list and everything, you probably came across one of our messages that we're running one on one challenges, baby, with this guy right here. That is Fonzie. I'm sitting on.

[B]

Yeah, let's go.

[A]

And we have the inspiration and the, I guess the mastermind behind you. Originator, master challenge maker.

[B]

Right here with us.

[A]

Right here with us, baby.

[B]

That is right.

[A]

Richmond. Welcome to the show, man. Welcome to the show.

[C]

Super excited to have you guys. I'm assuming I said beyond, actually. This is going to be, I can tell already this is going to be one of the most funnest, like, coolest podcast I've ever been on.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

High expectations are high. No pressure, no pressure. I will say this. I had a baby not too long ago, seven months ago. And I think this is the first podcast I come back to the studio to be in the same room with my brother because I'm like, Richmond deserves all my attention, all of the energy, and I'm pumped.

[A]

I'm just going to say the podcast numbers are better than ever. We're climbing high and this guy right here has been doing it all alone, carrying the team. I'm just saying maybe you don't need to come back to the show. Today is going to be your tryout, Fonzie. But enough about us. Rich, my man, welcome back to the show. You're joining us from Australia today. I appreciate you being here and you know, we've consumed a ton of your content. This guy here read your book and executed. Executed on your book. And within a few weeks we had a couple thousand dollars committed. Well, a few thousand dollars committed in, in a new program that we launch. You know, a little background. We have a production company. Right. We have a podcast studio. We provide services, and then we've been trying to figure out what the offer is that doesn't involve services, dude. And you were the one unlocking it. So thank you so much, man. Thank you so much now.

[C]

So good, man. So good. So glad you. I had no idea you read the book. I had no idea you did. Tiny Challenge. I had no idea you made money. And so, so good to hear.

[B]

I'm telling you, Richmond is one of the books that I. I love reading for context. I love reading, you know, learning new stuff. And yours was one of the few that I've read. And I'm like, I'm going to execute this asap. Is so. I don't know. This is definitely not the right word, but it's so executable, you know, like, you read it and I'm like, I have to take action on this. That is shift your belief from. It is so challenging to maybe sell as some sort of coaching program to actually getting it done. So that's what I want to do and talk about here today with you. Right. Of course we want to talk about the Tiny Challenge and all these things, but at the same time, it's like people believe that coaching is so difficult. Get started. You know, and I love your messages of is not about making money quick, but about, you know, getting paid quick. And I might be butchering this a little bit, so I want to hand the ball to you.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

How. How was this born? The Tiny Challenge.

[C]

And.

[B]

And a little bit of context for those that are listening. They say, what are they talking about? What is the Tiny Challenge?

[C]

Yeah. Cool. So in order to get paying clients or customers online, you need to market yourself. So you can't just open up a website, have a link there to book a free discovery call, and then suddenly you launch a website, and Tomorrow you've got 20 calls booked in your calendar. That's not gonna work. Like, you need some active marketing. You can't even have even. And I'm very close to Russell Brunson, but you can't even have a sales funnel and have your $2,000 course, then launch the funnel and to you just made money while you sleep. So you have to actively market yourself. And so the problem is there's so many ways to do it. And so which way do you choose to do a webinar, a group challenge, a VSL, a podcast, a YouTube channel, sell by chat? Do you do cold DMINGS do you cold outreach? Do you outbound, do you email this, like all these things to market yourself or do you just run ads to cold traffic? Now if you think about every single one of those strategies, they work, but all of them require some sort of foundational skill set to make it work. For example, you guys ran an awesome podcast here. In order to run a podcast, you know, a lot of people are starting a brand new podcast now to build their list, but they don't realize it's not that easy. There's some skills involved. You have to be great at asking great questions and timing and getting the right people on and getting the most value out for your audience. You have to better market the podcast. You have to be able to create content from it as well and make sure your listeners come back and grow. So many things about that. And so imagine if you've never made your first 100k online, then it's extremely overwhelming. And so which methods do you choose? A tiny challenge simply is like a five day group challenge, but it's done one on one, you and just one other person and that's it. So you don't have to worry about a big list. You'd have to worry about big marketing campaign, you'd have to worry about the tech. You'd have to worry about not being super clear on your niche or your offer because you get clarity during the challenge. You'd have to worry about a big launch or sitting weird dates and times like do I do it at a.m. or 12pm or do I do it 3pm because it's a one on one, five day challenge done anytime. And usually the 30 to 45 minute calls done over a period of five days. And that's essentially what it is. It just makes it so easy, so simple for anyone at any level, in any niche to get started online.

[A]

Oh man.

[B]

So it's so good.

[A]

So, so here's, here's a little comparison chart on like maybe some of the stuff that, that we're doing with. This is what like we were so excited to bring you because a lot of the people that reach out to, I mean the show is called Content is Profit, right? So everybody's like, how do you connect the content to profit? Like the fastest way possible. And you know, before we met you or heard about you, we were really close with Amanda Holmes and the June 100 and Chet Holmes and it's a similar take. And you know, we, we were able to monetize our podcast through a similar way to do Dream 100, right. And then we dove really into it and we're like, oh, this is really interesting. And the podcast became that vehicle. But it was still slow to, to my point of view. Like, you know, we. We dragged it out and it was like a lot of pieces, right? And then we decided to do a 45 day Facebook Live challenge, right? We had 100 people. And then it was awesome. During those 45 days, I think it was a little too long for a lot of people, but it was that, you know, meant a lot to us. But then, no, no customers came out of that on the back end, right? Really great relationships, but no customers, right? So we're like, okay, what else? And then we did a 15 day challenge. And then with the 15 day challenge, we were hosting it within our group. We had about 400 people in our Facebook group, right? And we had about maybe 20 people signed up. One person signed up to like a community side out of it, right? And then we did it the same 15 day challenge with incredible partners, which it got some traction.

[C]

So.

[A]

But the issue there was the marketing behind it. It's like the thing starts this day and like we probably send like 30, 40 different emails to a bunch of lists to get people in it and then the logistics of it and like how do we.

[B]

And then keep them engaged.

[A]

And look, it worked like, it was amazing. We had a great experience with these partners. Like, the people are great, they're transitioning to our community, but it was a lot of work. And if you don't have the assets or like you mentioned, like the tech, it can be like so overwhelming that a lot of people either get distracted, they change, and then they never really grab. And Fonzie was running this one on one challenge, like at the same time, I was like, okay, I take care of this one, you take care of that one. And he made 100 times more money doing this tiny challenge. I'm like, man, this is the way. How can we deploy this within the studio? How can we deploy this with Quantum Momentum, which is our high end service, Right? It's so good. So have you seen, is there a specific type of customer or a specific type of Persona that can run this more efficiently or is there's really a framework that anybody can use?

[C]

Anybody can use it. Now I say that because there's always going to be someone watching this or listening to this, thinking, it won't work for me. I'm B2B. It won't work for me. I'm a personal trainer. It won't work for me. I'm a Real estate agent. It won't work for me. I'm a grief coach. It won't work for me because I am an affiliate marketer or I'm in the sales industry. There's one person who has a mortgage broker that won't work for me because I'm a mortgage broker. I have not yet seen any situation where it has not worked for them. Because at the end of the day, let's just say you're a mortgage broker. How are you getting customers? You're getting customers through a webinar, a group challenge, a VSL, a podcast, a YouTube channel. An email is called Outbound, Direct to message. Like, you have to find a way to get customers. And so it's a marketing method to get customers in the easiest, simplest way. So whatever way you're doing to get customers, this is. I want. I don't want to say it's a better way, but it's a faster way to make money now because you don't need to be launch a big marketing campaign. And so I would just challenge anyone. Whatever you're doing right now, it will work for you, guaranteed, because you have to market yourself in some way, shape, or form.

[B]

Anyway, I love this. I actually heard you on a different podcast talking about selling how you are. Like, you know, I try to sell like Myron. And, you know, for those that are listening, don't know who Myron is, Myron Golden. You know, I try to sell like Russell Bronson. I try to sell like Grant Cardone. But then you're like, you know, I finally settle on selling my way. You know, like, the. The beliefs and the principles are the same, but you are doing it your way. And this is what I see with Tiny Challenge, right? Is a vehicle. At the end of the day, what we're trying to do with marketing is we want to build trust, right? We want to give value to people so they're like, they can help me achieve my objectives, right? And the Tiny Challenge, it's such a fast way of doing that. Like, the value per interaction is absolutely amazing. Like, after every single call I've been having, people are like, this is awesome. Like, I love it. I will say, and I apologize in advance, Richmond, I butcher. I butcher a little bit because it's like, you can have it in 20 minutes. I go over by a lot. I'm like, an hour in each call, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I hope I'm making Richmond proud. But there's a whole structure to it. And again, like, I was mentioning right there's so much value in those one on one interactions. So I'm curious, how do you then condense that value? And I'm talking now from, I've run this challenge. I've seen some of the things that I'm like, okay, I need to improve here. Right. And those are the things that I want to talk to about. One of them is how do I condense the value into the 20 minutes so I can have now more one on one challenges. Right.

[C]

I think various ways to scale that. Yeah, definitely. If your outcome is to get more one on one. Yes. Sorry, you're saying.

[A]

No, I was going to say like before we go into that, I think we should, can we give the framework for the people that might not be familiar with the challenge? Right. Because you know, we're like diving deep and it's like, okay, all selfish. I know you're like, I, I already know it. I'm asking, you know, sixth grade level question when we're in first grade still. Come on, Fonzie.

[C]

Yeah, we are. Well, you must communicate like a first grader.

[B]

Like true, true, true.

[C]

Have you guys heard of the game Cash Flow by Robert Kiyosaki? Yeah, yeah, like Rich dad, Poor dad, this board game called Cash Flow and it's, it's pretty advanced game for adults. But I thought, you know what, I'm going to teach my 8 year old to play this and if I can explain to her what an asset and a liability is in eight year old language, then you know, great communication. So you always want to speak like you're speaking to a one year old, like a 1:1 first grader or second grader.

[B]

I love it. He knows that because he has a first grader. That's why. That is true.

[A]

That is true.

[B]

But yeah.

[A]

So can we lay out the framework of the challenge for those that are listening right now and they're like, okay, I kind of want to understand like what it takes and then we can go into the question of fancy answers.

[C]

Yes. So let's lay out the framework. So I want you to think about a one on one challenge is kind of like when you go to a personal trainer at the gym. Imagine they did a five day, one on one personal training session consecutively. So that's kind of the concept there. And so the framework, number one, you must, first of all, you must know who the challenge is going to be for. So if you're like a personal trainer, is this for a moment that's looking to lose baby weight, Is it for a dad that's Looking to lose their beer belly. Is it for. Is it for a corporate person who's looking to get fitter? Is it for someone who's training for a marathon? Like, who are you looking to serve? So decide on your who. I call it the tiny who, which means niche down. Who's that? Is it a corporate woman? Is it a mom? Is it whatever it is. So find out you who, because that will allow you to determine what problems you are able to solve in a tiny challenge. And the beautiful world of chat GPT now is the moment you decide your who. You just go to chat and you say, hey, what are the 10 biggest problems they face that is marketable to them right now? And chat will give you the problems better than you can think of on your own. So that's kind of a hack, that's kind of a cheat. I never had the luxury of doing that because I started writing these years ago, before ChatGPT. And now you've got a list of 10 problems that you could potentially do a tiny challenge on. And once you decide on one of them, you just start to market it. Now you got the chat, you got the who, you got the hook, which is the problem you're solving. Now the framework to actually run the tiny challenge. The first call is all about discovery. I call this the four Fs. So the first call is like your typical sales conversation where you want to elicit the future, you want to find out what their frustrations are. So the future meaning where they want to be in 12 months time, where they want to be in six months time, what's their goal, their frustrations, what's holding them back? You want to listen their fears, whether they most afraid of happening, if they were to get that result or if they were to try or put themselves out there. And then finally, where have they failed in the past? You want to know what they are trying right now, if anything, what's working for them, what's not working for them, what are they not willing to try anymore? Because it's like they're just skeptical now because every other guru told them to work and it didn't work. So yeah, when you get all those bits of information that's on call number one, that's the framework core number one. Then it'll allow you to kind of build out Core 2, 3 and 4, which is the content pieces. So now you're going to teach your content over the next three calls. And then finally core number five is the offer reveal. And so you reveal your offer and most people don't even need to have an offer before they start running a tiny challenge because they'll tell you what they want during the first four calls.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so quite often, your offer is just created on that last call.

[B]

Yeah, that's it. I want to add something in here that it was very valuable. I am not the biggest fan of hard selling, you know, and not because it doesn't work. I know it works perfectly. It's just more of an internal, probably fear, you know, like, me, too. And what I love about your friend, when I was reading it, the book, I was like, you pretty much frame at the beginning on day one. Part of what you do is you frame that there's going to be an offer at the end. Right. And I love the way you phrase it because you tell them, hey, if you find this valuable, we have next steps. Right. Something else that you can have. And I love that because first, it kind of, like, puts the ball back in my court in the sense of, like, I need to deliver value. I need to make this valuable for them. But also, they already know what to expect at the end of five days. And you're not, like, you know, kind of, like, surprising them on the very end, like, all right, well, now here's, you know, an offer. I want to keep working. But you're like, hey, you know, like, we talk on day one, if this was valuable to you, which you already told me it was. You know, like, we have something else. Like, do you want to hear about it? And everybody that has gone through the challenge, they've always been, yeah, absolutely. And actually today I just finished a challenge which the person wasn't a fit for that next step. And it actually felt great because I told him that, hey, look, like, we do have the offer, but I don't think you're right there yet where we can help you. So I think the best thing you can do right now is just stay in our community, stay active, jump on the Q and A's, and we can keep going. Right. And I think it's such a great way of framing the sale. Right. What's going to happen next? So.

[C]

Oh, yeah, go ahead, work.

[B]

Sorry, sorry. Go ahead, Richmond.

[C]

Like, there's a reason why that works because both of you have kids, right? So, you know, if you want your kid to go to. You go to sleep. You can't just say, okay, time for bed. That was just too abrupt. It's almost like presenting an offer without even planning or seating at first. So it's like before dinner, say, hey, kids, we're going to go eat dinner. After dinner, we're going to brush our teeth, and then we're going to go to bed. And then when you're having dinner, hey, kids. So right now we're having dinner. After dinner, we're going to brush your teeth, and then we're going to go to bed. And then after dinner's done, hey, kids, time to brush your teeth. After you brush your teeth, it's time to go to bed. And then after the brushes, okay, kids, it's bedtime. But they've heard it three times already.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so then they can go to bed. And that's how you build trust and compliance. But also, you don't shock people by just hard pushing and hard selling them. So that permission frame on call number one, we talked about. Yeah. Asking permission. And then you ask permission again on call number four before you open call number five. And you finally ask permission again on call number five. Hey, remember what I said on call number one. Is that okay? It's. So basically, you ask them is okay you brush your teeth or go to bed after three times before you make the offer, and now they're more open to actually listening to your offer.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Actually, one of the people that, you know, became a member of the. The offer. They asked for the offer. They were like, all right, are you going to. Because I actually, like, I told you I've extended myself quite a little bit on some of these calls. So I actually gave her a call number six. I was like, you know what? Like, I'm just having so much fun doing this. Let's have a call number five, and then we'll do the last call. We'll do it next time. We'll do a call number six. And she's like, well, you're gonna tell me the offer, right? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I promise. I promise you're gonna do something. So it's. I love it. It's been a lot of fun. So I want to go back now to condensing the value. Right. Because I definitely see a couple of challenges here. Right. I think I picked a problem maybe a little bit too big for the challenge, and that's why I'm going a little bit longer on some of these calls. And I think that might be a problem for people that might, you know, try to do it on themselves. By the way, if you want Richmond's help, he has an awesome program. Go join him. We're gonna put the links in the description below, so make sure you jump on that. He'll Help you do it perfectly so you don't have to make the mistakes that I'm making. But how do, how do we condense the value then in this 20 days? How do you make those choices of what to teach, what to leave out?

[C]

Yeah, this is the great question. Well, first of all, if, if you're running your first few, and it went over an hour like some of our students the first time, like that first call went for two hours. Because sometimes it's not your fault. Like sometimes the person just doesn't know how to stop talking and they keep on going and going. And so you, then you have to build boundaries of saying, hey, I've got an appointment, that kind of stuff. So, so it's okay to go over and don't beat yourself up, because the reality is people always give you their time before they give you their money. And the more time you give them upfront, the more willing they are to give you their money. And we all know that studies these days show that the amount of touch points you need with someone in order for them to buy and trust you is so high now. And that's why podcasts like this are so powerful. Because when they've listened to you guys for an hour, that is like watching 60, 60 second shorts. And not many people will watch 60, 60 second shorts of yours, but they'll watch a one hour podcast or listen to it. And that trust is so high. And so they always, people always give you their time before they give you their money. So if you go for an hour, not a big deal, it's definitely not a loss. However, you don't want to be doing that all the time. So that's very frustrating. And there's a couple of things you can do. And I'm going to show you two ways to either get it down shorter or to scale those one hour calls in a much more effect, which will completely blow your mind. So you can, you can literally make hundreds of thousands of dollars from every single tiny challenge that you do. And that's not having a $200,000 offer or $300,000. You make hundreds of thousands. So I'll show you that after I show you how to condense it. So condensing it does take experience, and that means just doing more of it to realize what you don't need to do. I used to be an optometrist before I was a coach, and that was more almost 10 years ago. And a typical eye test at the end of my career, I could do it in 10 to 15 minutes. Because I knew what to do. But when I started, my first eye test, took two hours in the chair for two hours. And so you learn from getting shorter, from doing more. So that's number one. However, you can always pre frame them as well because one of the misconceptions that you might have by doing it shorter is they're not going to get as much value. And we want to train them to think very differently. So I kind of offer, like, open up with a metaphor. And I'm sure maybe you guys have heard this before. I don't know if it's a true story, but there's a story of a guy who had a big toothache and, and it was really bothering him and he didn't do anything about it. And it got worse and worse to the point where he couldn't drink cold water anymore because it's too painful. He left it for a couple of days, it got even worse. Now he couldn't eat, left a few more days, got even worse, and now he couldn't even sleep. And it was waking him up at night. And so he called up a dentist, said, my teeth is killing me. It's aching. I need something fixed right now. I can't even sleep. I can't function. The dentist slotted him in as an emergency patient, and he went to the dentist and he sat in the chair, and the dentist opened up his mouth, took some tools out, looked at a few things, did a few things. Two minutes later, the problem solved, and he comes to the front desk to pay the bill, and it's fifteen hundred dollars. And the guy's like, fifteen hundred dollars for two minutes. It's like, you're a ripoff. You can't charge me that. It's like, okay, well, let's crack in the chair and I'll do the same thing, but I'll take four hours.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And then the guy's like, ah, I see. So now it's all about trading outcomes, not trading time. And so the lesson there is over these next five days on this tiny challenge, I want to give you outcomes. I don't want to give you time. And if we can get the outcome in 15 minutes, would you be up for that? So got a 45 minute early mark. And it's like, yeah, I want that. And so now you can help them believe and think that outcomes are more important, which it is. Most people think, oh my gosh, I need more time. But they don't need more time. They just need more outcomes. They just got a time or money trade. Thinking mentality, which doesn't serve them.

[A]

Absolutely. I think that's so important for a lot of people starting out. And I don't want to. I have a question here loaded up, but I want to make sure you mentioned scaling the part. So Fonzie, you took notes right on the.

[B]

Oh yeah, 100% good.

[A]

Yeah. You like to talk. So you mentioned then a second. It's like, how can you go then and scale those calls?

[C]

Right?

[A]

So like, what's the, who's the ideal person for that? Is that somebody that has been doing it now for a while, like, at what level can they do that?

[B]

Or like, like when should you step on that? Because I can, I can easily see somebody like me, for example, be like, right, I ran a few, I made a couple money, I'm ready to scale this thing to the moon. When in reality it's like n. I know that it would be better for me to do it like a couple hundred times, you know, as much as I can.

[C]

A couple hundred?

[B]

Yeah. And then be like, all right, now I'm good, now I'm good to scale.

[C]

This thing now you don't need to do a couple of hundred times. That is, that is way too much. I do say that you do need to do 100 hours of one on one coaching. 100 hours or 100 sessions. So now if you came from the one on one coaching model and you've. And you're fulfilling through one on one coaching and you've done 100 one on one calls, that would allow you to be qualified or good enough to scale tiny challenges. Or that's 20 tiny challenges. Because 20 tiny challenges is 20 times five one on one calls, which is 100 calls. At that point you can start scaling a tiny challenge and make hundreds of thousand through a tiny challenge through what I call a shadow seat. And so for example, most people, and this is how this came up, like most people, like, but Richmond, I want to see how you run a tiny challenge. Like, I want to see how you do it. And the only way I could show them how to do it was to give them a replay of my tiny challenge. And then they watch the replay and it's all good and stuff. But then they wanted to actually be in the room and I'm like, you can't be in the same room because it's one on one with another person. But I thought, what if, hang on. So what if I could have them in the room, just get permission from the person I'm doing it on? And so this is About a year and a half ago, I picked a person to do a tiny challenge on. And I said, normally I would charge $25,000 for it, but I said I would only charge you 5,000 for it. But here's the caveat. Will you allow me to have up to 10 people in the same zoom room watching me coach you so they can understand on how I'm actually doing it so they can do it themselves? And she's like, yeah, okay, I'll let you do that. And so it was a win win offer for her and also for me. But here's the kicker. When I got to call number four and call number five and I presented the offer, the offer was presented to all 10 people in the room and not just one. And then that first time I did it, six out of 10 bought my next level offer. And that's how you scale a tiny challenge through having a shadow seat, watching your one on one calls, and then you present the offer to many. And now we do shadow seat tiny challenges every quarter. And the last one we did, we had about 150 people on. Presented the offer to 150 people instead of just one person. And that's how you make hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars through a tiny challenge scaled through shadow seating.

[B]

Yeah, that's really. That. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, I can see yourself doing that maybe a little bit in the future after I master, you know, the tiny challenges.

[A]

I'm gonna be your handbrake.

[B]

You're gonna be my handbrake.

[A]

I'm gonna unlock it for you.

[B]

I will say this. I will say this. Richmond. It's been one of the most enjoyable marketing things I've done. Like, it's so much fun to help people, you know, so you're like having them on a call. And as weird as some of the calls have been called number one, I will say when you go into. Tell me a little bit of your fears and frustrations. I've had some people cry. Yeah. I'll tell you. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm. I don't know if I'm doing this right.

[A]

I think it's also like our medium, right? Publishing. There's a lot of personal development, entrepreneurship. It's a lot of personal development. A lot of people that we get other people starting out, big stakes, right? People like, you know, putting everything on their business. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very emotional.

[B]

Absolutely. It is very emotional. Right? So some of those calls, I was like, all right. I'm like, taking notes on like, how can I improve in here and all that stuff. Like the emotional buy in is there. I will tell you.

[A]

You know how he broke the news to me originally? He calls me, it's like, dude, I don't know if this is for me. Like, I, I'm making people cry, man.

[B]

I don't know if I'm doing the challenge or am I doing challenger therapy. Which one we doing out here?

[A]

I'm making people grab my man. Like, okay, let's, let's watch this call. But he was good. He was good.

[B]

Yeah, but it's been again, yeah, it's been so enjoyable, like so, so enjoyable actually. Helping people and helping them move forward. But like I told you that I already spot some places where I can shift my attention, fix it, right? Like maybe even change what the challenge is about. And I'll tell you what it is, right? Like the challenge that I'm doing is like, I'll help you gain clarity on a content strategy. And then the sell party is more of like the implementation on a coaching program. Right? But as I'm doing it, I'm like, there's a lot of elements to a content strategy, right. So that's why the calls are expanding a lot and doing all these things. So I'm not. Now I'm trying to think after what you said or what could be a smaller problem. So.

[C]

Yeah. What's the first three things they need to know? Like, of course they need to know a lot of things, but what's just the first three things they need to know compounded by what's the one belief they need to have? Like, content is the way.

[B]

Yeah. So talk about the beliefs, right? Because you do mention a lot of that in inside of the book. And I think that's actually the most important part is not about just giving value and teaching them how to do things. All that stuff is actually about shifting the belief. What do you mean by that? Right. For people that are listening right now, they're like, okay, because that is also an element that goes into your content. It's not just an element that goes into your, into your tiny challenge, right? It's part of your message and you get a shift, a belief. So how do you go about that? How do you craft that and how do you actually help people shift their belief?

[C]

That's correct. Well, the first belief someone must have when they're running a tiny challenge is that they must believe that tiny challenges work. They must believe it works. Because if you have any doubt that this may not work for me, I'm just testing it out. I'm just, I'm still a bit skeptical. Then you're going to look for reasons as to why it won't work because your focus becomes a filter of everything that you experience in life. And so you must believe that tiny challenges work if you're going to do tiny challenge. And the more you believe it works, the more you will make it work. That's just how life is. That's step number one. Now step number two, after believing that tiny challenge work is, then you must believe that you are the solution to their problem. And that can get a lot of people like, but I haven't had an experience, but I'm not sure if I can answer all the questions. But what if I don't get the right offer? What if I don't deliver all those set aside? Believing that you're one chapter ahead of the person you're coaching makes you qualified to be able to coach that person is all you need to be able to help transform their life. And sometimes we have different expectations of how we should be, of how we should show up of all these shorts in our lives, and that's why it destroys us. So that's the second belief that you can actually help the person. And then the third belief you need to have in order to make it successful is that you're worthy of getting paid. This is like for a person that is just starting out and money being transferred to them is a big deal because the moment money gets transferred to you, it's not just the dollars in your bank account, it's a shift in your identity because now it's legit and now it's real and now you're a brand new person. So that's ultra important. I love you talking about beliefs because if people don't believe it, then they're not going to, they're not going to follow through and, or they're going to sabotage.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think that's the case with what your book instilled in me. I mean, and I watch a bunch of interviews, I watch, you know, we love Russell Brunson. We got into this world because of clickfunnels, right? We went to the events and everything. And I read your book and I told you I've read multiple marketing entrepreneurship books and I'm like, it's always okay. I can see how that works. But there's, there's some sort of lack of belief of am I going to be able to make that work. But the tiny challenge was like, huh? I can definitely, I can talk to people. Yeah. I can, I can help people take one step forward. Right, so you do, you do a great, great job at instilling that belief for people. Now we're talking, I know we're talking a lot about beginners.

[A]

Wait, clearly you've been hugging the mic. Podcasting. Hold on, hold on. Because there's a lot of people out there that are like, okay, well this all sounds great, but how do I get my first person?

[B]

That's where I was, where I was going right there. I'm making relatable. Sure.

[C]

Okay, sure.

[A]

Okay. You know, and I, and I heard your interview with Russell.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And you, you go over this framework, right? How do, how do people get into, in touch with those, like, first 10 people?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And everybody, like, probably in Internet marketing and all, like, do I run an ad? What's the ad I need to create? What's a funnel? I need to have so for people that opt in, in my email. Like, and it's a lot simpler than that. It's like, it's not freak out. It's not freak out. Right. So why don't you go over kind of like your version of it and then we can add to it. I don't think we need to add to it, but we'll add our bloopers. Easy, easy peasy.

[C]

Firstly, people say, oh, should I run an ad? I'm like, what for? Like, to get one person, like, put $20 on Facebook and then turn the ads off. Like, you know what I mean? Like, now you have to copy or, or build a funnel. For what? For to register one person or build.

[A]

A whole YouTube channel. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It'S, it's so funny. And then, and then you gotta send them an email confirming, like, it's, it's such a. Because it's a one on one challenge. No, Everybody that's watching right now, and I say this, like, I mean, should have 10 people that you have great relationships with that you've met any events or you've met online and you got a relationship. They're kind of like your family, friends or acquaintances that, that's going to be the first 10 that you present an offer to, to work with you for five days on your tiny challenge then. And, and if you've been somewhat, I guess, a reasonable human being, you should have 10 relationships around you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you, if you don't, then I think the next step is not to even do a tiny challenge. Just become a likable person.

[B]

Just make friends, go out there and make friends.

[A]

All right. Make some friends.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's just some people are just. They got no friends. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's hilarious because, you know, we go to events, marketing, podcasting, like, all the time. And, and I think people, because they're like, scared to do the thing that they actually need to. To do, right? Like, they add all these things to their list to be like, feel busy, right? Like in our podcasting conference, like, people, like, with the list of, like, I won't start a podcast until I get like all this equipment, right? And we're like, like, guys, just use your phone, right? Like, you can just do this. And that's a podcast, right? And then on sales, you know, it's like, I need to build the funnel and I need the perfect sales page and I'm like, I need the email list. All these things where. Same thing, phone number, you know, let's call this person. We have people in the community that are amazing. Like, we can tell there's amazing value. They have communities already. Like, this lady had a hundred people in a Facebook group that she's been like, engaging with. And I'm like, we need to reach out and send a DM and I'll send them a little voice note on your phone, like, reaching out, one on one. Do you think, like, do you. Do you feel like people are like, scared of that human interaction? I feel like there's a level of like, I'm freaking out. I don't, I don't know how to communicate other than behind my computer like that. To me, that's my personal theory. I don't know. Am I wrong? Am I freaking out?

[C]

You're not wrong. And it's. I guess it's hard for us to understand what we think is easy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And how you make it harder than it is. And reality is what. There's nothing like, there's nothing hard about. Like you said, if you've got a Facebook group with 100 people, even with 10 people sending them a voice clip saying, hey, I like this. I just watched this, Listen to this podcast by these two brothers and they were awesome. They interviewed this guy from Australia and they're talking about this one on one five day challenge. And I thought, you know what? Like, I've known you for the last two years and I'm thinking of running a one on one, one on one challenge to help someone like you become a better mum.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Guilt free, less overwhelmed, something like that. And. And I don't Know, I thought about you. Would you, would you like to be my very first, my very first participant in this and help out, Help you out together? Something like that, you know, that's awesome. Someone you know.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, it's very organic.

[A]

Here's your script. There you go. Go back like a minute. That's your script. Literally uses as an excuse be like, we heard on, on these guys, they're crazy.

[B]

Yeah. If you're a, if you're a personal trainer, don't go like, hey, I met you for like two years and you're like 100 pounds overweight now. Like, do you want to do this challenge? You know, maybe that, that, maybe that's not the approach.

[A]

I see the potential in you.

[B]

Yeah. But it's, it's very simple. I love that approach. Again, very organic. And it's just such a. We always talk about this with all of our clients. Right. It's a frame of mind and this is like a copywriting thing, which is what's in it for them. Right. And that's how you present it. It's like, hey, look, we're doing this five day thing that is going to help you do better in whatever it is that they're doing. It's like, are you interested? It's totally free. Right. We're going to have a lot. We are going to have a blast. I say it's 20 minutes, but we're going to go for like an hour and a half each now. I'm kidding.

[C]

That's such a good point. You brought up focus on what's in it for them. The only reason why you get self conscious, or you're scared of judgment, or you're scared of failing, or you're scared of not wanting what to say is because you're always, you're only focusing on yourself. And it is impossible for you to feel fear when you're focusing on someone else. It's impossible for you feel afraid when you're grateful. And so, and that's like public speaking. Like, I'm so scared of public speaking. It's because you're not focused on the room. You're focused on what I need to say. No, you're not focused on who you're speaking to. And the moment you shift your focus outward to the person you're serving, all fear goes away.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

There's a phrase that I heard, I can't remember off the top of my head who said it, but it was one of these events and he's like, hey, actually probably might have been Myron, when we did the Mastermind in Boise, he's like, he was teaching us how to do an offer. He's like, go outside and literally call people, telling them that you have something to sell, right? And a lot of people in the room were about 16 in the room, room were like, freaking out, right? And he's like, do you believe that what you do or what you deliver is going to change their lives to the better? Like, are you going to be able to help them right now then is a disservice if you don't call them and you tell them that you can make their life better. Like, and that I remember, like, that phrase, like, shifted everything to me because I'm like, this is just going to add value. Why am I so afraid to help them to change their life? At the end of the day, it's.

[B]

Because people want shortcuts, right? But. But as I heard somebody once say, is the shortest way is the right way.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

For those listening. That is a Richmond phrase right there. We gotta make a share with that now.

[A]

You gotta do it with the Australian accent. Come on.

[B]

Yeah, no, but I love. I heard that. I was like, dude, let me write this down. I have a book. I call it Compendium, which is. I use, like, phrases that I like to remind myself, you know, often. That phrase is now on that book is. It's so true.

[A]

How big is this book?

[B]

I mean, it's like a little notebook. A little notebook, you know?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, but.

[B]

But I love it, you know, and it resonates because actually, when we first got in this space, my whole idea was like, dude, I'm so ready to be that marketer that is eating chips in their couch and just making a bunch of money. It's not like that. It is not like that. Right. So, like, that's why your message resonates so much now. I do want to transition here towards the end on talking about some of the results that you're giving people.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I know you have a huge community. You got a mastermind of people that, you know, very successful. And I think they've actually come through also the Tiny Challenge. Some of them as well. Right. So tell me a little bit about those results. Like, what. What are some of the cool things that you've seen?

[C]

Yeah, so the probably the coolest thing I've seen is we're talking about Myron. Myron is. Has made the most from the concept of tiny challenge. $700,000 from one tiny challenge, then followed by Russell May, did two tiny challenges made $100,000 each from each one. And obviously, they're very advanced entrepreneurs from the beginner level as well. And I was in my studio only a couple of months ago, and he just asked me just a question, like, so, Richmond, like, what percentage of your students are making money from this? And I sat down and I thought about. I thought, well, all of them make money from it. That's not the question. The question is, how many do they need to do before they get their first paying client? And at the time, the worst result we had was they had to do 12. And then the 13th tiny challenge, they got the first paying client. And you can do 12 in a month. Just do three a week, which is very easy to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I thought, wow. I think what I'm really saying. And he confirmed is like, so what you're really saying is 100% of your students are getting results. They just have to do enough of them to get the result. And I was like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. We haven't had anyone yet not make money unless they've only done one or two or three and they stopped doing it. The average person makes their first dollar through a tiny challenge after three tiny challenges, like, one in three. And that's the average person. Like, the worst result was 12 in a row. They got 12 nos in a row. And then number 13, they got the first. Yes. So to answer your question, these are complete beginners, complete newbies, and it sounds like too good to be true that 100% are making money from this, but, I mean, you might break the record. You might have 13, they say no, and then 14 say yes. But don't try to do that.

[A]

No.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

I think this is so good. I mean, you. The first person that did it.

[B]

The first one became a client. Yeah, I think it was the first one, the third one, and the sixth one. And I need to count how many I've done, but I'm definitely within the stat.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Like, one in three. And that's awesome. If you got a $3,000 offer, you do 10 of them. That's 9,000.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's so good, I think, for people starting out to wrap up, because we need to head up. But I remember we have this page that I call the six Figure sales letter.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And people are like, what is that? And it was literally the page that we had up on business here way back when we first started the service. And it was like this thing that I wrote that I thought it was a great sales letter, right? It was not. It was horrible. Yeah. I mean, we will frame it because of what it means, but we put it out there and I show it to people and they're like, wow. Like, did it actually make this sick for you? They can't believe it. Either they're like, like, it's too bad, or they like, this is too good. And I reckon I don't recognize that it's too good. I'm like, no, it is definitely bad. But what he allowed us to get to the first six figures was reaching out to people, having them on the podcast and having that real conversation. Right? And it's. It's very similar, but it took us a while and we had that to put the podcast on top. Like, there's more logistics to it. And when Fonse were telling me about this, I'm like, man, when was this? Where? Like, where was this? Like, five years ago? It would have been so much easier. And that's why today in our community is one of the things that, you know, we bring people in, and as soon as they jump in, in the community, I've been referring them, everybody to funds because I'm like, dude, like, you are a great fit for this thing. So maybe Richmond or not, maybe we have to collaborate some somehow in the future, because everybody coming, like, they need this. So I don't know what we need to do to put your content in the community or to refer people your part. I don't know, man. It needs to happen, happen. But it's. It's such an incredible tool, man. And everybody out there, if you have a message.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

If you have a message to share, if you have a product that helps somebody, this is. This is the way to do it. So cool. So, so cool, dude. Richmond, thank you so much for coming to the show, man. Is there anything else that you want to add before we head out?

[C]

No, you. You boys have been amazing. You guys have been great. I'm just, again, super grateful to be here. And I. I could tell this is going to be a super fun, super fun podcast, and I can tell your synergy is just amazing. Are you guys, like, legit real brothers or is it.

[A]

No, we are legit real brothers, unfortunately. No, I'm kidding.

[B]

Yeah, we're brothers with the same name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We say. We say our mom. What's a secret marketer?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Your parents couldn't decide, so it's like, same name.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much, yeah. It's been a pleasure, man. Richmond, next time you're in Florida because I. I think you're part of Myron's community and I'm pretty sure he lives in Florida.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So next time you're around here, let us know. We might. We may have to take a trip to Tampa.

[A]

Yeah, we'll come to you. We'll hang out.

[C]

Yeah, we'll do. We'll do. Awesome, boys. Thank you so much.

[A]

Anything else fancy on your side?

[B]

No, I just grateful. I'm. I'm very excited. This has been a blast. I mean, I miss this conversation.

[A]

Welcome back. I can tell your energy level went back up. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to, you know, like the show. And also bizbros co forward slash monetize. For your clarity challenge with Fonzie. Go to the links below right here. Richmond, if you want to share what you're promoting right now. What is it?

[C]

Yeah, it's easy way. It's just my book challenge. It gives you the whole framework how to do it. And it's a free book. Just pay for shipping, which is like $10 or whatever it is. You get your book for free. Yes.

[A]

Such a good deal that. That has to go to the starter in the in the studio podcast and content momentum.

[B]

This one has the fancy seal of approval, 100%. I mean, I can tell you I've read a lot of books. I'm sure some of the revenue we've made has been tracked to some of those. But with this one, yours is the first one that I can say specifically, you know, how much we've made with this and how much more we're going to be doing because it's a lot of fun. I'm going to keep doing it.

[C]

Just.

[B]

I'm going to keep Richmond. I'm gonna make you proud. You know, I'm gonna make you proud.

[A]

Just wait when I start doing them, dude, we need a little tally.

[B]

Yeah, we can make it a competition.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Which actually we say we're leaving. But real quick, talking about competitions, you have the next top speaker. New business with Russell Brunson. I saw, right?

[C]

Yeah, that's it. That's it. That is this magazine as well.

[B]

Oh, that's.

[C]

That's pretty epic with it. 33%. A third. A third. A third. So it's awes bought into it.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Very cool, man.

[B]

We're gonna have to bring you back to talk all about that.

[A]

Yeah, baby.

[C]

Yeah, that would be. That would be fun. That be fun. We're running the tournament right now as we speak, and got 3,600 people registered.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Wow. So cool.

[C]

Gonna be one winner. That's huge.

[B]

Yeah, that was good. Are you gonna. Are you gonna run, like, a challenge to the tiny challenge? The tiny challenge challenge.

[A]

The tiny chance challenge.

[C]

Into another tiny challenge.

[B]

Into another tiny challenge. Whoever makes the most wins, and they take everybody's profits.

[A]

That's awesome. Well, man, thank you. Very grateful to have you on the show, man. And with that, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you in the next episode. Take care.