Referrals & Hidden Revenue Growth Playbook with Michelle Page

Summary

Content Is Profit: Referrals & Hidden Revenue Growth Playbook with Michelle Page

Episode Release Date: December 17, 2024
Host: BIZBROS

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Content Is Profit show, hosted by BIZBROS, listeners are treated to an in-depth conversation with Michelle Page, a seasoned business development leader with over 20 years of experience in revenue growth and sales strategy. Michelle shares her expertise on harnessing the power of referrals and uncovering hidden revenue streams to significantly boost business growth.

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Guest Introduction: Michelle Page

Michelle Page joins the studio as a highly respected figure in the business development arena. With a client base where 58% originated from direct referrals and 63% consisting of repeat engagements, Michelle's strategies have proven exceptionally effective. Her company, Revenue Chasers (revenuechasers.com), specializes in providing tailored strategies and tools to startups and scaling organizations, addressing common growth barriers and facilitating the next level of business expansion.

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Key Topics Discussed

1. The Importance of Referrals

Michelle emphasizes that referrals are not magic; they require intentionality and genuine value delivery. She states, "[...] referrals are not magic. They have to be intentional. Yes, you do have to ask for them, but first and foremost, you have to deserve them" (00:25). Michelle explains that establishing meaningful relationships with clients is fundamental to earning their trust and willingness to refer others.

2. Building Meaningful Relationships

Michelle underscores the notion that "people buy from people" (00:38). She advocates for a relationship-centric approach where understanding client needs and delivering consistent value are paramount. This approach ensures that referrals are a natural outcome of satisfied and engaged clients.

3. Overcoming Sales Intimidation

The conversation delves into the common intimidation associated with sales and cold calling. Michelle counters the belief that sales is merely a numbers game, arguing instead that quality and strategy are crucial. She asserts, "Sales is not a numbers game. It takes focus, it takes understanding what you're doing, it takes training, it takes coaching and a purpose" (19:12).

4. Strategic Networking and Proactive Outreach

Michelle shares her own experience of shifting her business strategy to incorporate extensive networking. By scheduling numerous one-on-one calls and building genuine connections, she significantly expanded her referral network. This proactive approach highlights the importance of intentional networking in generating consistent business growth.

5. Assessing Business Fundamentals for Growth

When discussing self-assessment for business growth, Michelle advises defining specific growth objectives and analyzing current business metrics. She outlines a strategic planning approach: "Define specifically how do you want to grow, why do you want to grow? What are those specific parameters. SMART goals" (30:08). This methodical assessment helps businesses identify leverage points and actionable strategies for growth.

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Notable Quotes

• Michelle Page: "People have forgotten that people buy from people." (00:38)
• Michelle Page: "Referrals are not magic. They have to be intentional. Yes, you do have to ask for them, but first and foremost, you have to deserve them." (00:25)
• Michelle Page: "Sales is not a numbers game. It takes focus, it takes understanding what you're doing, it takes training, it takes coaching and a purpose." (19:12)
• Michelle Page: "We are all in. If somebody that wants to work with me is just going through the motions, I lose interest pretty quick." (32:12)
• Michelle Page: "Content is profit. So if you're going to develop those relationships, ask for those referrals, keep those repeat customers coming back to you and back to you and back to you and generate revenue and profit, you've got to have good content." (17:21)

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Insights and Strategies

Earning Referrals Through Value Delivery

Michelle’s core principle is that earning referrals begins with delivering outstanding value and building trust with clients. By understanding their needs and consistently exceeding expectations, businesses can organically cultivate a referral-rich environment.

Quality Over Quantity in Sales

Contrary to the traditional sales mantra of quantity, Michelle advocates for a quality-driven approach. She likens it to a batter at a batting cage with a coach: "You are going to hit a lot more home runs if you practice with intention and guidance" (19:30). This analogy underscores the importance of strategic practice and targeted efforts in enhancing sales effectiveness.

Proactive and Purposeful Networking

Michelle’s strategy involves proactive networking through numerous targeted interactions. By actively seeking out one-on-one meetings and focusing on building genuine connections, she has been able to expand her referral network and drive sustained business growth.

Strategic Business Assessment

Michelle outlines a comprehensive self-assessment framework for businesses aiming to grow:

1. Define Growth Objectives: Establish clear, specific, and measurable goals (SMART goals).
2. Analyze Current State: Assess financials, customer base, market position, and competitive landscape.
3. Identify Barriers and Opportunities: Determine areas lacking knowledge or resources and address operational challenges.
4. Implement Strategic Plans: Utilize tools, training, and coaching to overcome identified barriers and achieve growth targets.

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Guest's Contributions and Experiences

Michelle shares her transformative journey of expanding Revenue Chasers through strategic networking and relationship-building. By committing to frequent and meaningful interactions, she transformed her business model from one-on-one engagements to scalable content-driven products, allowing her to assist a broader audience.

She recounts, "[...] the number of repeat clients. I have the percentage when I started Sales Chasers, which has evolved into Revenue Chasers back in 2009. I still have clients from 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, still coming back to me" (32:38). This highlights the enduring value of maintaining strong client relationships and their impact on long-term business sustainability.

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Conclusions and Takeaways

The episode with Michelle Page serves as a masterclass in leveraging referrals and uncovering hidden revenue opportunities. Key takeaways include:

• Intentional Referrals: Actively seek and deserve referrals through exceptional service and genuine relationships.
• Relationship-Centric Sales: Focus on building and nurturing relationships rather than solely pursuing high quantities of sales leads.
• Strategic Networking: Invest time in meaningful networking to expand your referral network and uncover new business opportunities.
• Comprehensive Business Assessment: Regularly evaluate your business fundamentals to identify and address growth barriers effectively.

Michelle concludes with an empowering message: "Y'all are incredible. You are the resources that you are, the giving souls that you are" (34:17). Her encouragement reinforces the importance of community and mutual support in achieving business success.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Content Is Profit offers invaluable insights for entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and business leaders aiming to enhance their referral strategies and unlock hidden revenue streams. Michelle Page’s expertise and practical advice provide a clear roadmap for transforming content and relationships into tangible profits.

Listeners are encouraged to visit Revenue Chasers for tailored strategies and tools to drive their business growth. Additionally, the BIZBROS hosts invite listeners to engage with their podcast on social media and leave reviews to support the show’s mission of turning content into profit.

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Notable Timestamp Highlights

• 00:25 - Michelle discusses the intentionality behind earning referrals.
• 00:38 - Emphasis on "people buy from people."
• 17:21 - The concept that "content is profit."
• 19:12 - Sales is not merely a numbers game.
• 30:08 - Strategic planning and defining growth objectives.
• 32:12 - The importance of passion in business relationships.
• 34:17 - Michelle’s empowering closing remarks.

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For more insights and detailed strategies on turning your content into profit, subscribe to the Content Is Profit podcast on your favorite platform and follow BIZBROS on social media.

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Timestamp References

• <span id="timestamp-0025">[00:25]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-0038">[00:38]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-1721">[17:21]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-1912">[19:12]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-1930">[19:30]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-3008">[30:08]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-3212">[32:12]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-3238">[32:38]</span>
• <span id="timestamp-3417">[34:17]</span>

Transcript

[Michelle Pay]

You can't just say, I want to grow. You've got to look at, okay, where am I today? Where do I want to go? Define that and say, okay, what's my path to success? That's where I come into play.

[Luis]

And then also sprinkle a little bit of passion. Right?

[Michelle Pay]

You're going to need to sprinkle a little bit of passion.

[Fonzie]

It's a numbers game, right? You hear all the time. Specifically in sales.

[Michelle Pay]

Only if you're delivering quality.

[Luis]

How do you actually achieve those referrals and the people that you've helped over the years?

[Michelle Pay]

Referrals are not magic. They have to be intentional. Yes, you do have to ask for them, but first and foremost, you have to deserve them.

[Luis]

Obviously, you had 20 years of experience. You came across so many companies like, what's the pattern?

[Michelle Pay]

People have forgotten that people buy from people.

[Luis]

Guys, welcome back to Content. Is profit happy? What's today?

[Fonzie]

Wednesday.

[Luis]

Wednesday. Wednesday.

[Fonzie]

Happy Wednesday.

[Luis]

Happy Wednesday. I'm glad Katie's back. I have my days, but I thank God. Summertime.

[Fonzie]

I thought you said I miss my wife. Her so.

[Luis]

Not at all. No, I'm kidding. I do love her. So I had a meeting this morning with LUCA teachers and we're talking about it. And I told them this is the moment where you learn to appreciate your significant other so much more interesting. So very exciting that she's back.

[Fonzie]

I already have two clips. This one for when I feel like doing something nice and showing it to Katie.

[Luis]

Blackmail me.

[Fonzie]

And the five seconds before when I feel like I need to blackmail you. I can show that to Katie too.

[Luis]

She knows exactly what I'm thinking. I've said both comments to her. She left. Roll her eyes. I'll get you. I'll let you guess which one is which. But enough of that. We have a special guest in the studio today. I'm very proud of this person and we'll chat a little bit. Why? But she has a stellar reputation and clients are raving fans. I've seen this firsthand. Since 2009, 58% of client base has come from direct referrals and 63% of clients send or repeat engagement.

[Fonzie]

So that's very nice.

[Luis]

Everybody listen, please, please, because you should be learning some stuff today.

[Fonzie]

We'll be taking notes.

[Luis]

It will be. Yes, we'll be definitely taking some notes. She's a seasoned business developer leader with over 20 years of experience in revenue growth and sales strategy. Kaching. Kaching. And then she offers her expertise as revenue growth and business development leader, assisting organizations and achieving their sales Objectives. And just recently we've been working on a project together, which I'll let her kind of like show.

[Fonzie]

I like the little shimmy there.

[Luis]

Shimmy, yeah. Please welcome guys, the one and only Michelle Pay.

[Michelle Pay]

I'm so excited to be here with you guys.

[Luis]

Let's go.

[Fonzie]

We're excited to have you on.

[Michelle Pay]

Thank you.

[Fonzie]

Some people say you go also by the name of Michelle.

[Michelle Pay]

You know, that's one of the many names.

[Luis]

One of the many names, yeah.

[Fonzie]

We're excited. We're very happy to have you. My brother's been working closer with you, so I feel like, you know, he has more of that internal knowledge.

[Luis]

We're besties.

[Michelle Pay]

Absolutely.

[Fonzie]

I'm super curious about all that, you know, referrals part, which I'm sure we're going to dive into, but I'm going to let my brother kick it off here.

[Luis]

Well, first of all, you know, Michelle, we met when probably like a year.

[Michelle Pay]

Ago or so spent a little over a year.

[Luis]

Over a year. You came here in the studio with your then co host and, you know, I think a few months ago you came in and you're like, luis, I'm ready to dive into the podcasting world. You know, full on gas.

[Fonzie]

Like, I'm ready to spread my wings.

[Luis]

And on the content side, I've seen you develop immensely. We're going to obviously put your go go grow show right below in the notes. So please, guys, go check it out. No, please, it's in order.

[Michelle Pay]

Good job. You're demanding. I like that authority.

[Luis]

I've learned. I've learned I have to do it with him all the time. But apart from that, obviously, you know, people see your content, they'll see that you're incredible. We want to dive in here, especially on the referral side. Right. Obviously, you know, when it comes to selling a product or, you know, dealing with customers on this, a lot of people want to ask the monetization aspect and that back end or like that relationship with your customer is so important. But most people just focus on like the first sale. Right. Everything they see online is like that first sale and not developing. So how do you actually achieve those referrals and that incredible rapport that you build with your, your customers and the people that you've helped over the years?

[Michelle Pay]

That's a great question. And referrals are not magic. They have to be intentional. And yes, you do have to ask for them, but first and foremost, you have to deserve them and you have to give someone a reason to say, you know what, you have delivered value to me, I understand you. I understand your product or service, and I understand why I should share that value with someone else and why that's meaningful. So if you're not working with your client, your network colleague, anyone that you're looking to partner with and want to be referral partners, then you don't have the right to ask for a referral. So when I develop those relationships with a client, I really want to understand what it is they need, how I can deliver that for them, help them grow. And in the course of conversation, who else do you know that can benefit?

[Fonzie]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

From what I do.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

I have a, you know, a question here. You said you need to just serve it. Right. How do you know at which point you deserve it? Right. Because I feel like some people may want to look for. So maybe they have a product that takes a while to deliver results, you know, and my initial thought would be that people think they deserve it when they deliver results. Right. Again, my initial thought it might not be that, but when it's a good point for them, you know, to again say, I think I have earned the right to ask for a referral, is it, you know, great customer service, again, on a product that maybe takes a while to give results, or is it when you get the results right? I don't know if there's any other scenarios in there.

[Michelle Pay]

It's. That's a great question. And think about what situation it is now. If you're, if you're selling an item, a widget, a transactional deal, obviously at the point of that transaction, you're going to ask for that referral. Hey, who else do you know that needs a red chair? Who can you imagine that doesn't have a place to sit? And they like the color red.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

So if you are giving a customized software solution, it is just ingrained throughout that entire process. I mean, you're asking questions about their business, their pains, how we can bring them solutions. So it is proving your value each and every day, just the way you interact, the way you ask the right questions, the way you understand their business. And it should be part of the process of saying, wow, this is what I'm seeing in the industry that people are dealing with. I'm guessing you've probably talked to some of your peers. What are they saying? Who is that? Because that's somebody I should probably talk to as well.

[Fonzie]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

No, I mean, think about if Fonzie. If somebody was building a house, would they wait until they were done and moved into the house before the builder could say, do you have, do you have a referral for me?

[Fonzie]

I mean, now I would, I don't know, probably throughout the process. I haven't, I haven't built a house. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I'm putting myself in the shoes like me, as a customer, I would want to refer, you know, especially if I'm referring to other people that, you know, they trust me and all that. Like after I seen the value of the end product.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

That being said, if the value of the process is very high, you know.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

I think my, my conclusion is gonna be the end product is gonna be good because this relationship is so, well, you know, they take care of us so good. They ask all these questions, these details. My assumption is going to be the end product is going to be incredible. So probably I would be more apt to do the referral throughout the process before the house is done. But I'll let you know when I buy a house.

[Michelle Pay]

You know, realtor, a great mortgage lender through this process.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, yeah, there we go.

[Luis]

I, I remember now, like, we remember this analogy, right? Like, you know, we look at my five year old, he loves this like little pieces of gum that, you know, he earns with reading, right? To chew for a little bit. So, you know, he, he'll ask for this gum and then let's say I give him a couple, right? He just gets a couple. But for the sake of the example, we're gonna do more gum. So I end up giving him five pieces of gum, right? And then maybe I'll take one back. He might not be mad at me because I took that one, but if, if I gave him one and then I took away that one, he might get like really mad. So the way I picture it with the asks, right, like the more value we give, the more, you know, maybe updates, the more like, hey, here's the process, or here are the things. Those are like the little pieces of candy that we might be giving. And then with that ask me like, hey, do you, you, do you know anybody that could, that this could be useful for? That's the nas. That's where we take the candy away. So the more we give, the more also room that we have to, to get those ask. And I like that analogy a lot because we use it for, for our podcast, right? Like we, we have incredible guests just like you here today, right? And at the end of the process, which by the way, if you haven't checked out the last episode, go check it out because we do that process One of the questions is like, well, first, like, what else can we do for you?

[Michelle Pay]

Always.

[Luis]

So that's. That's has been really good. And then we also asked for, hey, do you know anybody that could be a good fit for the show? And in our specific case, a good fit for the show is not only a good fit for content, but also a good fit for an opportunity down the road. It could be referrals, it could be clients, it could be speaking engagements, events, like, all these things that could lead to more business. So in our case, like the podcast and the assets and the experience and all those are the little pieces of candy to then go do those asks. And it tends to be really good and we get really good response. So I think, like, on that side is very exciting to experiment and if you haven't done it, you're listening, go try it out.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah.

[Luis]

On the sales side, right? I think, like, if you put the sales word ahead in front of it, a lot of people might get intimidated just because it's like a sales process. Do you find that? Because I remember when we first started, like, just the sheer fact of going called on somebody and be like, hey, we offer this service, like, it was very intimidating, Right? So do you find, like, in the companies that you help, Obviously you had 20 years of experience. You came across so many companies, like, what's the pattern? Right? Are people, like, intimidated doing that? Is that something that maybe they just forget because the process is pointing them somewhere else?

[Michelle Pay]

People have forgotten. And I'm saying this is a huge generality. People have forgotten that people buy from people. They don't say, hey, somebody's knocking on my door, I'm going to answer it and see what they want to sell me. They need to realize that every single transaction, every single introduction, every single sale begins with a relationship. And if you don't treat me as a person and, you know, hit those Maslov's seven basic needs, then I'm gonna have no motivation or interest in even speaking with you, let alone developing a business relationship or helping you in a way that doesn't help myself. So when I made a big shift in my business over the last couple of years, and it's pushed me to do a tremendous amount of networking. This was right around two and a half years ago. And that push made me proactively kind of get out of my comfort zone and join a lot of different networking meetings online. And, you know, I started moving out into in person as well. And I would schedule not only those Great Big virtual 60 person on a Zoom call, meetings. But I would go out of my way and schedule one on one calls. I would have five or six meetings a day, three or four days a week. So now you're talking 20 to 30 calls a week.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

And you would be surprised how many people would say, well, what is it you wanted to talk about? Why were you interested in talking to me?

[Luis]

Wow.

[Michelle Pay]

I'm like, well, I just wanted to understand you and your business better and see how I can support you and your network.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

Why? Yeah, well, you're human. I'm human.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

We both have businesses and I always start off by saying, how can I help you? And then they talk and they talk and they talk and they talk.

[Luis]

Yeah. And that will lead to a solution, right. That it could be you.

[Michelle Pay]

A possible.

[Luis]

Possibly.

[Michelle Pay]

Right, possible. But at the end I kind of wait and like, okay, well, thanks for reaching out. And I'm like, okay, well, to wrap up, is there anyone in particular I can introduce you to? Is there anything particular I can do for you? Well, no, I can't think of anything. I'm waiting for them to say, was there anything I can do for you?

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

And if I. If they don't say it, I'll say, well, the one way that you could help, if you so choose, is this is the kind of person I would like to meet that I could add value to.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

And people just don't think this way.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

Yeah.

[Luis]

So. So who taught you that? Like, do you remember, like, initially, was it. Because we've noticed, right. And I think with the different personalities that we've had on the show, that, you know, more people are more proactive when it comes to, like, human relationships. Right. So it's like, maybe they grew up with a certain type of background that makes it easy for them to relate to other people. Right. Like, you know, I remember in our case, when we first started the show, the reason we do conversations is because we love it so much. Right. We're like, we love meeting new people, we learn. We love learning new things. But as we started to help others, right. That something that for us maybe was maybe a second nature, as in, like, we're having a conversation about this topic. For others, that was not the case. It was like they felt like, very intimidated by it or. Or they're like, I'd rather do something else or, um, I don't know what to say. And then for us, like, in our minds, like, initially it was like, well, but it's so simple. You ask these questions that you're curious About. But for them, it. That meant that they needed to, like, level up their skills at some point. Right. So something that came natural to us initially, which, by the way, there's a lot of other things that don't come natural, so we have to learn. But that specific example, that's what it is. So I feel like with you, that part of relationships was something that was natural and. And it just happened that your career path went that way. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Michelle Pay]

You would be shocked to know that I am just now admitting that I'm not an introvert. I've always considered myself an introvert.

[Luis]

Just like Fonzie.

[Fonzie]

Well, actually, I think I got. I got both, you know, but when he's in the room, I like to observe because he likes to talk a lot. So I'm like, you do the talking, you go do your thing.

[Luis]

Thank you for this space.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, that's all good.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah, I like having my space.

[Luis]

Yes.

[Michelle Pay]

But, yeah, I. I would always. And there's been many things over the last five, six, seven years that have kind of shifted in my life, shifted my priorities, shifted my focus, and it's bringing me out of the shell. A lot of that's been this podcast, actually. It has been. But as far as, you know, what made me be that people focused and that, you know, how can I help you? I think a lot of it for. For me was just a generational thing, a family thing, an educational thing. I went to private high school, grade school, college, and I mean, it's just the way people treated each other. For some of us, it's a cultural thing, just very warm and social. So in the digital age now, I think people lose that. It's very short, to the point, you know, text rather than. I'm an email girl. I'm an email girl and I talk too much. Makes me a natural podcast person.

[Luis]

Yes, absolutely.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah. But if you break it down so, you know, content is profit. So if you're going to develop those relationships, ask for those referrals, keep those repeat customers coming back to you and back to you and back to you and generate revenue and profit, you've got to have good content. And that relationship is the content you deliver.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

So whether it's a podcast with tips, tricks, the latest algorithm for. For how to monetize something or productize and. And get your voice out there, or if it's delivering a professional service or whatever the case may be, people buy from people, and you are your product, you are your brand, so you are your contact content, and you've got to create your profit based on your relationships.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean, obviously I'm not going to go into the AI because that's a whole different topic. But I feel like there's a constant optimization of relationships, outreach, all that stuff I personally think we're going into. People will want more human connection just because they won't know whether they're talking to a machine or somebody else. You know, honestly, when I get messages and I can tell you didn't craft this or, you know, I'm just part of another number, another big list that, you know you're hitting it, it's personally for me is a turn off. So I do enjoy more of that. Personable. Right now, the other side of the equation is it's a numbers game. Right. You hear all the time, specifically in sales. You need to have a lot of conversations and all these things. So there we go. I'm curious, what is your point of view on that?

[Michelle Pay]

It's a numbers game only if you're delivering quality. So if you are, if you have a thousand at bats and you have a blindfold on, how many are you gonna hit?

[Luis]

All of them? Not many.

[Michelle Pay]

I'm not gonna hit any because I'm gonna be like. But if you go to a batting cage every day for three hours for three months and you have a coach and you concentrate and you set yourself a goal, then how many are you going to hit? A lot more.

[Luis]

A lot.

[Fonzie]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

So it takes focus, it takes understanding what you're doing, it takes training, it takes coaching and a purpose. So it's not a numbers game. You need to know what you're doing.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

So if you go out into the middle of a lake and you go out on a rubber raft and you have a pole with a string on it, you go out there for an hour and say, well, I didn't catch any fish. Fishing is dead. Okay, well, I didn't have the right equipment. I never learned how to fish. I went to polluted ocean or polluted pond. You're not setting yourself up for success. So it's not a numbers game. And when people say that sales is a numbers game and that cold calling is dead and that the outreach is automated. Okay, well, you're setting yourself up for failure.

[Luis]

Yeah, I. I love that because. Well, first of all, Fonse went this weekend to Orlando to a place that there's no fish or the fish were trained enough that were being fished.

[Michelle Pay]

They were trained.

[Fonzie]

It was my. The first time I feel like fishing has Been a scam. I mean, luckily, the. The bait wasn't too expensive, but they're like, yeah, there's a fishing pond over there, and you got. You cast it.

[Michelle Pay]

Did it have goldfish in little bowls?

[Fonzie]

No. Is it like a big pond? But you cast this, like, immediately. But immediately you're like, oh, they're biting. This is good. Some. Some fish in here. And then you pull out the. The. The line. And literally they would eat everything except for the part of the worm that was on the hook. And you're like, all right, let me try again.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

And then finally, after like, an hour, my friend was there with me. He. He caught something. It was like a fish 2 inches. This is, like, too big. I like, there's no way this. This fish know what they're doing.

[Luis]

Which is funny, because at some point, point when we're like, in this sales journey or content journey, right? Like, some groups and relationships feel that way, right? Like, they. They know the tactics, they know the tricks, and they'll walk around it. You know, a good example of this is, like, you. You give a lead magnet. You have your product out there, and people are downloading them, but. But maybe with the wrong email or, like, they just put a phone number that you need for to, you know, maybe text them and give them more resources, but maybe they put a fake number. Right? Like, those. Are those fish, you know, biting the debate and not really grabbing the hook.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah.

[Luis]

So I think a very big shortcut. And I love the fact that you say, like, sales is not a numbers game, because, like, for a long time, that was a belief that we had. Remember initially when we first started selling social media services door to door, Right. I remember one day that I go out to my job and foster is like, this is the day I make all the calls, right? And we sell stuff. And he had his headset on thing, and then we, you know, I come back a few hours later, and he's still, like, pacing in the room. And it was, like, very intimidating, right? It was the first time. And I don't know how many calls you did, but we closed nothing. And that, you know, we're so new in this game. But, you know, even if we can go past, like, situations like that because they're so intimidated, and on top of that, we might not have the best resources. You know, what got at least us on talk and we unstuck and we seen other people, too, is the conversations with the. With the right people. The first time that we did the 45 life challenge, which was we're trying to publish a piece of content a day for 45 days straight on Facebook Live. We did a very small call to action where it's like, hey, we just need five people to have a conversation with about this topic. And we'll give you, you know what, we'll share the, you know what we Learned so far. 20 people decided to book a call on that very first thing. And those 20 people gave us the information that we needed to execute the service that we still do today, which is crazy. Out of that conversation, out of relationships. And these were all people that we met in person at an event that were following what we were doing. So it led to a massive opportunity down the road that has helped us kind of grow, grow the business. So I love the fact that you're, you're sharing that this story because, you know, it's is about the resources, is about your tools, is about the right medium. Right.

[Michelle Pay]

Well, speaking of that, I want to, I want to give you a little adjacent information. So if you're putting lead magnets out there or any type of content and you're getting fake phone numbers, phantom emails or anything like that, you're targeting the wrong audience. If it's a good audience for you, they're going to want your content and want to be able to be reached for future information. If they're giving you just a one off to grab your information, they're not a prospect.

[Luis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Fonzie]

My brother has that problem since college. He'll go to bars, all the girls will give him phantom, phantom emails. You know, he was that weird one that would ask for emails at the bar.

[Michelle Pay]

But he's so cute.

[Luis]

Thank you. That is true. That's a lie.

[Michelle Pay]

That's true.

[Luis]

Okay. I've been dating Katie since 2011 and man, you know, first I got, I got her. She's the best.

[Michelle Pay]

What kind of bait were you using?

[Luis]

Myself.

[Fonzie]

The Hispanic bait.

[Luis]

The accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, for her, like poutine. The Canadians love poutine. So I just put a place of poutine out there that sounds like French fries and gravy. She loves that. Yeah, we don't, we don't eat it often, but every time we see poutine somewhere, she's like, I want a little.

[Michelle Pay]

Bit of cheese on top, dude.

[Fonzie]

I thought about the Russian president, Putin. I was like, wow. Didn't know she was, she was into that.

[Luis]

She was into that. Nope, definitely that food. You are right, Michelle.

[Michelle Pay]

My mother's husband is French Canadian and the first time I experienced that was interesting.

[Luis]

Yeah. I mean, it's delicious. It's, you know, she orders her thing, she. It's just a little bit and then I finish the plate, I'm like, oh. But she put that bait on me. That's the, that's what it was.

[Fonzie]

The reverse bait.

[Luis]

Yeah. So, you know, Michelle, as you know, we get to the end of the, the second part of the episode, right? So, you know, today through Revenue Chasers, your new platform, which is revenuechasers.com go check it out. So good. You are providing startups and scaling organizations with tailored strategies, right?

[Michelle Pay]

Yes.

[Luis]

And tools, which is what we were just talking about to drive business growth. A lot of people that listen, they might be solopreneurs or entrepreneurs that are doing their thing, it might be on the side, but we also have some awesome B2B people that listen. Right, how, like, what are some of the most common problems, maybe the top two issues and friction points that you see in these organizations that you help them unlock and move things forward?

[Michelle Pay]

The common issues I find is either it's a lack of passion, a lack of knowledge, or a lack of resources. So oftentimes people will start a business because, hey, this should make me a lot of money. And it's just not something that moves them and drives them and keeps them invested. So if they are encumbered by having to do everything that they don't love, and maybe they've fallen out of love with the reason they went into business, I can help them make sense of all of that so they fall in love with their business again or help them make their business into something they do love. Okay. More likely it's going to be a lack of knowledge or lack of resources. So the resources, training, tools, coaching that I provide are based on a lot of the fundamentals because many of my clients are solopreneurs, startups and scale ups. So they're right at that point where they have some barriers to growth and they want to get to that next level, whether it's from 1 million to 5 or 5 to 10 or 10 to 20, whatever that may be, maybe they're 50 and they want to go to 100 million, but they can't get over that hump. That's where I come in. And so we'll look at the fundamentals. Many of them don't know who exactly they should be selling to, how they should be selling. Maybe they have operational challenges. They may say, well, we need more sales, so we'll do a deep dive assessment. No, you don't need more sales. Your problem's over here, you're leaking all your revenue. And then the last one is lack of resources. So maybe they don't have bandwidth. And I will help them find whether it's technology, human resources, human capital. Yeah, sometimes they'll call it. Or any type of supplemental growth opportunities that is going to help them get where they need to be.

[Luis]

Cool.

[Fonzie]

So if I were to do a self assessment, right, of my business, when you say looking at the fundamentals and then, you know, maybe spotting what is the problem or let's say the best point of leverage, right. For me to have an initial growth, why would that self assessment, like, how would that self assessment look like? What would be the, the questions I will guide myself through to find that point of leverage that I could, you know, take action right now?

[Michelle Pay]

You know, it's interesting you ask that because right after this recording, I'm recording a module for a training session which is strategic planning.

[Fonzie]

Ooh, look at that.

[Michelle Pay]

And it's all about determining what your goals are and how to reach them. So that is the first step. You want to grow. Okay, define that. How do you want to grow? Do you want to go revenue? Do you want to grow your product line? Do you want to grow your number of customers? Do you want to grow your number of locations?

[Fonzie]

Yeah, my brother, his height. His, his height.

[Michelle Pay]

Well, I've got some nice boots.

[Luis]

I decided that I want to grow my bel.

[Michelle Pay]

Oh, I've got some experience there.

[Luis]

And now.

[Fonzie]

All right, so let's go back to define the growth.

[Michelle Pay]

You have to define specifically how do you want to grow, why do you want to grow? What are those specific parameters? Smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time bound. And then you have to break it down to say, okay, well where am I in my current state? And look at all the different areas of your business. So your financials, look at your data. Hopefully you have good data. If you don't, we need to get good data. Yeah, every company has data. And if you don't have a good data plan, whether it's your CRM, whether it's your, your financials, whatever the case may be, that's usually the first starting point because you can't make data driven decisions without data. You want to look at the competitive market, the industry and other competitors, you want to look at your customers market, you want to look at the geopolitical financial markets, you know all of that to say, okay, what's impacting my business today, what's going to impact it in the future? So you can't just say, I Want to grow, You've got to look at, okay, where am I today? Where do I want to go? Define that and say, okay, what's my path to success? That's where I come into play.

[Luis]

And then also sprinkle a little bit of passion. Right. Because if you're not passionate about what you're doing, all that's going to be really hard to. You're gonna start.

[Michelle Pay]

You're gonna need to sprinkle a little bit of passion.

[Fonzie]

The whole thing.

[Luis]

Bucket. Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah. I'm a very passionate person. I love working with passionate people because that means that we're all in. Yeah. If somebody that wants to work with me is just going through the motions, I lose interest pretty quick. And I'm at the point in my career that I want to work with people who want to work with me.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

And one of the big changes that I've gone through and the kind of the refocus is we mentioned the number of repeat clients. I have the percentage when I started Sales Chasers, which has evolved into Revenue chasers back in 2009. I still have clients from 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, still coming back to me. And the thing is, instead of working one to one with those clients, I want to reach out and work one to many, which is why I'm building content and taking all the content I've developed over the last 20 years and making it into products so that I can help the many.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pay]

Yeah. So if somebody has that passion and wants to work with me, I can do it in the format they want, the budget they want, the pace they want.

[Luis]

Yeah. So awesome. And we're gonna leave all the links right below. All you gotta do is scroll with a little thumb or your favorite finger. Click on it. Yeah. Fonzie.

[Fonzie]

I'm just gonna say I hope you scroll with your thumb. If you find yourself scrolling with your index. Your pinky.

[Luis]

With your pinky.

[Fonzie]

I don't know.

[Michelle Pay]

Spraying your finger.

[Fonzie]

No. Trying to be too mean, but, you know, it might be a little old in there. Just kind of like with your.

[Luis]

Well, if you. If you ask Luca, dude, I don't know. He likes to scroll with his tongue for some reason. I don't know. It's weird.

[Michelle Pay]

I think it's his father.

[Fonzie]

That's a new generation.

[Luis]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

He must have picked it up from somewhere. Just saying.

[Luis]

Yeah. He knows I don't like dirty phone screens, so, you know, he does the opposite. But anyways, Fuzzy or Michelle, any last thoughts that you want to share with everybody here on the show?

[Michelle Pay]

The only thing that I want to leave with is y'all are incredible.

[Luis]

Thank you.

[Michelle Pay]

You are. When I started my relationship with you and my initial co host, Dasha Tishlick, we came here to get some production help. We knew nothing about podcasting. We thought, oh, well, we can do it ourselves. But, you know, when we want guests, we'll have them do it in here. You are wizards. You are the greatest guides, Sherpas, if we shall say through the podcasting world. I love that I am now a retained client for you because it has helped me. It has helped me grow in my understanding. I always coach my clients. Don't just outsource something. If you don't have a working knowledge that you can at least speak the language when somebody else is helping you make a decision, you can't make that decision.

[Fonzie]

No.

[Michelle Pay]

You've got to understand the basics of language. And you've taught me that, and you're still teaching me that. I listened to your podcast. 5. What did I say? 5:27. 5:37. On my way over here.

[Luis]

500 freaking episodes.

[Michelle Pay]

So I want to thank you guys for being the resources that you are, the giving souls that you are.

[Fonzie]

Thank you.

[Michelle Pay]

And for helping me propel my business forward.

[Luis]

Thank you, Michelle.

[Michelle Pay]

And helping me go, go, go grow.

[Luis]

Thank you, Michelle. I really appreciate it. And, like, you've pushed us in ways that are incredible also internally for us to continue to grow and be better as a business. And I appreciate you coming in. And I'm sure everybody here listening will get some golden boulders, as we call them here on the show, and just.

[Fonzie]

Like, golden nuggets just way I need to trademark that one.

[Michelle Pay]

I'm gonna steal it before you trademark it.

[Luis]

That needs to be a show. We need the retail with, like, all our phrases. But, yeah, Michelle, we love you. We're honored that you come here to the studio and, you know, choose us to help you with this. And, you know, it's just a matter of time that, you know, you make this incredible impact. You're already doing it, so I'm excited. And tonight we have a awesome networking event, so I'm gonna see you in action. I'm gonna be taking notes and be like, yeah, Fonzie, any last thoughts?

[Fonzie]

No. I just want to invite you listening right now to go through the self assessment. Right. That Michelle shared and listen again to the episode, take some notes, and of course, reach out to Michelle, you know, if you have any more questions or you need some guidance on your strategy to go, go, grow.

[Luis]

Thank you so much for tuning to the contents Profit Podcast. Go ahead and follow the show in your favorite podcasting platform and on social media at Bizbrosco, that is.

[Fonzie]

Ryan, if Michelle here helps you take one step closer towards your goal, please don't forget to share this episode. And of course, don't forget to leave a five star review. See ya.

[Luis]

Bye guys.