The 6-Step CTA Framework That Converts Listeners Into Buyers with Alex Sanfilippo (Podmatch Special)

Summary

Content Is Profit: Episode Summary

Title: The 6-Step CTA Framework That Converts Listeners Into Buyers with Alex Sanfilippo (Podmatch Special)
Host: BIZBROS
Guest: Alex Sanfilippo
Release Date: July 24, 2025

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In this insightful episode of the Content Is Profit show, hosted by the dynamic duo Luis and Fonzie of BIZBROS, listeners are treated to an in-depth discussion with Alex Sanfilippo of Podcasting Made Simple. The episode delves into the critical yet often overlooked aspect of podcasting: Crafting Effective Calls to Action (CTAs) that transform passive listeners into active customers.

Introduction: Bridging Content and Revenue

Luis kicks off the episode by sharing their recent participation in a Podmatch-hosted event tailored for podcast hosts and guests. Highlighting the success with over a thousand registrants, he emphasizes the importance of strategic CTAs in driving traffic and revenue. This sets the stage for the core discussion on optimizing CTAs within podcast content.

Identifying the CTA Challenge

Alex introduces the central theme by addressing a common issue among podcasters: "I'm not getting any results from having a podcast, or I'm not getting any results from being a podcast guest." He posits that the Call to Action—rather than the content itself—is often the stumbling block preventing listeners from taking desired actions.

The 6-Step CTA Framework

The conversation systematically unpacks Alex’s 6-Step CTA Framework, offering actionable insights for both hosts and guests.

1. Develop Know, Like, and Trust

Alex (08:50):
"Give it all away. You can develop that really strong relationship that bond with the listener as a host and guest."

Luis and Fonzie concur, emphasizing that sharing valuable content builds authority and trust, which prepares listeners to respond positively to CTAs. They caution against withholding information to make sales pitches appear genuine and trustworthy.

2. Singular Call to Action

Alex (12:16):
"It needs to be one thing. It's called the call to action, not a call to actions."

The trio highlights the importance of focusing on a single, clear action, avoiding the overwhelm that comes with presenting multiple options. Fonzie references a study on consumer behavior, illustrating how too many choices can lead to decision paralysis.

3. Relevance to Content

Alex (14:34):
"If you're on a podcast, it's all about alignment with your call to action."

Luis shares an example from their own show, where a monetization-focused CTA proved highly effective due to its direct relevance to the episode's content. The key takeaway is to ensure that the CTA flows naturally from the discussion, maintaining coherence and enhancing listener engagement.

4. Simple to Understand

Alex (15:00):
"It should have the aha moment... easy to understand."

The hosts discuss the necessity of crafting clear and memorable CTAs. Fonzie appreciates frameworks that help listeners quickly grasp the action being requested, such as comparing a service to a familiar concept like a dating app.

5. Easy to Follow

Fonzie (26:55):
"Perfect, right? It's easy to remember."

Luis and Fonzie stress the importance of using simple, sticky URLs that listeners can easily recall and input later. They recommend tools like dynamic ad insertion to ensure CTAs remain relevant over time, preventing outdated offers from causing confusion.

Alex (23:09):
"If you're going to put combined information, make it simple, short, and sticky."

6. Value-Adding and Engaging Landing Page

Alex (28:26):
"When they follow through to the call to action, they should feel it's continuing to add value."

The discussion underscores that the landing page post-CTA must reinforce the value offered without immediately demanding personal information or payment. Comparisons to social interactions illustrate the balance between providing value and encouraging further engagement. Fonzie elaborates on aligning landing pages with the podcast’s content to avoid confusion and maintain trust.

Dynamic CTA Implementation

Luis highlights the effectiveness of dynamic insertion, allowing hosts to update CTAs without altering existing podcast episodes. This ensures that CTAs remain timely and relevant, enhancing listener response rates without creating logistical challenges.

Gamifying the Listener Experience

The conversation takes a creative turn as Fonzie suggests gamifying CTAs to increase listener engagement. Examples include secret codes and interactive challenges that reward listeners for active participation, thereby fostering a deeper connection and incentivizing action.

Conclusion: Action Over Consumption

As the episode wraps up, both Luis and Fonzie emphasize the importance of translating content into actionable steps. They encourage listeners to test and iterate their CTAs, ensuring alignment with their business goals and audience needs.

Alex (37:16):
"Don’t be like, cool, great information. I know what to do. No, no, go do it."

They collectively stress that while consuming valuable content is essential, taking decisive action is what drives business growth and revenue. The episode concludes with a mutual call to join their Business Creator Club, fostering a community centered on accountability and actionable strategies.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Build Trust First: Share valuable content to establish authority before presenting a CTA.
2. Keep It Singular: Focus on one clear action to avoid overwhelming listeners.
3. Ensure Relevance: Align CTAs with the content to maintain coherence.
4. Simplify: Make CTAs easy to understand and remember.
5. Facilitate Easy Action: Use memorable URLs and dynamic tools to keep CTAs current.
6. Add Value Post-CTA: Ensure landing pages reinforce the value offered without immediate demands for personal information.

By implementing this 6-Step CTA Framework, podcasters can effectively convert engaged listeners into loyal customers, bridging the gap between content creation and revenue generation.

Transcript

[Luis]

Hey guys and welcome back to continuous profit. Today we have a treat for you. Last week we were part of an incredible event put up by Alex and Filippo and the Potmatch family. They had over a thousand registrants. We promoted it like crazy inside of our business creator club and gave free access to the entire day. It was basically an event designed for podcast hosts and podcast guests and we were so proud to be a part of it because our session was like the very first guest session that was throughout the day and we talked about something that most content creators ignore till the very end. And it's probably one of the main things that could drive traffic to their offer their websites to the next step. And Alex called us a couple months ago, he's like, hey guys, do you guys want to be a part of this event? I am down to come to your studio and record about this topic. So we obviously said yes and we haven't. We've been like itching to release this episode. And after the great feedback that we had at Podcast Made simple with him and his company and his community, we decided that it's time for to let it run while here at Content is Profit. So I'm going to read you real quick, kind of like what the event is all about if my windows here allow me to do it. So six steps to a podcast CTA that converts a call to action. So we actually go over these six very specific things that you can do in your content. And this is not specifically for podcasts, but it also applies to every single piece of content that you put out there, whether it's like a YouTube video, whether that's short form content. And it was a crazy, it's not a presentation, it was a full on conversation that we have with him and he brings this topic. And it's funny because Fonsi has some points of view, I have some points of view. We go through like different case studies and examples and things and out of the mind like out of these world examples that you could potentially try and have a lot of fun with it. So here's the description Alex wrote. Alex, along with Louise and Fonsi shares 60 framework to help podcast hosts and podcast guests create focused, compelling calls to action that actually get results. Baby ka ching ka ching. Get ready to simplify your message, got your listeners and turn listeners attention into action. So with that said, enjoy the episode.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

You're listening to Podcasting Made Simple. Hey, Alex Sanfilippo here. Welcome back to Podcasting Made Simple. I am so excited today to be joined by Two of my close personal friends that actually met through podcasting, but we've become really close. I really love these guys. I got Luis and Fonzie here. Fellas. Welcome. Hey.

[Fonzie]

I got a little confused because you said Luis looking at me, and then you said Fonzie and you looked at my brother.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

I wanted to. Okay, you both are Luis, and I wanted to call you all that, but I know that when you're recording, we go, Luis and Fonzie. Sorry, everybody.

[Fonzie]

No, it's so good.

[Luis]

That is right. Original Luis here. Alex, thank you so much for having us, man. It's a pleas an honor. Dream come true.

[Fonzie]

Yeah. I owe you an apology, first of all, because yesterday we went fishing, and I promise you we're going to catch a big catfish, and we didn't catch anything. So it's a public apology.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

I got a little bit of a chip on my shoulder today, but it's okay. We're. We're here recording. And by the way, this studio is this. These guys right here, Biz Bros. Podcast Studio Suites. They were kind enough to open up their. Their doors to us today. So thank you, guys. I'm really excited to have. Thank you.

[Luis]

Absolutely.

[Fonzie]

I'm excited.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Sweet. So I, you know, I got to share one. One little fact here. I don't know the year, but I was on your podcast years ago, and you all said, this guy's got the best hair in podcasting. Fast forward. Years later, I come back on your show with a group of people and someone goes, alex has almost no hair left. And so, like, for everyone, that's how long we've known each other. That's how long we've been doing this podcasting thing. Anyway, you guys are two of like the. You guys bring the best energy in podcasting since the beginning. Like that first interview I did with you guys, I still hold it as one of my favorite I've ever done. It's just always a good time to create with you guys. So thank you.

[Luis]

It means a lot.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah, for sure.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm. I told you at the beginning, but I haven't jump on a podcast in about two months.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Two months.

[Fonzie]

I became a dad. And, you know, I've been a little busy. Thank you.

[Luis]

Thank you.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Congratulations.

[Fonzie]

Thank you. But I wouldn't have it any other way. You know, come back here with you. It's exciting.

[Luis]

He has a lot of words kind of like bottled up. In case you hear more of Fonzie than anybody else.

[Fonzie]

That's why been two months.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Here's a question, though. Did you continue listening to podcast, and I asked, you guys consume a lot of podcasts, and you all do something I think that's really unique. You don't just listen to, like, learn from the podcast, but to learn about how the podcast works. Did you continue that trend at least?

[Fonzie]

Yes, yes.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Okay, good. Okay.

[Fonzie]

I did listen to a lot of podcasts.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Great. So I want to talk to you guys about this because we've. The three of us have seen a lot of what works in podcasting and also what doesn't work in podcasting. And today specifically, I want to address one of the big questions that comes up, both from hosts and from guests, which is, I'm not getting any results from having a podcast, or I'm not getting any results from being a podcast guest. And I'm just going to kind of go right into what I think it is. It's the call to action that's the problem. It's not the content itself. Typically, the content can be really good. Like, I know a bunch of indie creators that are just absolutely incredible. The problem comes into play when we're telling listeners to take action, and that's where we either miss it by not doing it, or we tell them, here's 30 things, right? And we'll get into all that. But the idea of a call to action is what I want to discuss with you guys today. So any initial thoughts on that before we dive into it?

[Luis]

Yeah, 100%. I think maybe listeners are overwhelmed by the options that they are presented. And also the creator itself is overwhelmed maybe by opportunity. Right. Because we talked about, you know, not only sponsors, so there's a call to action to go check them out. But then if you have a product, you know, what product do I send them to? Right? And it's interesting because it's probably one of the platforms that you have those options. You have pre roll, meat roll, post roll. You're doing the episode organically. Like, what do. And maybe in our heads, like, limiting to, like, one call to action might be very intimidating.

[Fonzie]

Now, I think from my point of view, an idea that has been very attractive to me lately, and by lately, I mean the last probably year or so, is the fact that every business is pretty unique, right? Every podcast is going to be very unique. So I don't want to sit here and be like, you should do this. You know, this is the one good call to action that you should take. I think everybody should take this, you know, with a grain of salt and actually test the thing, right? Like my brother, he says, approach it As a hypothesis. Right? Like, what is, you know, if I do X, will I, you know, see Y results? And then you go test it out and then you're going to have a baseline enough of that, then you can go on and improve. Right. I think, you know, the tips that we're going to share, like, all the things that we're going to be talking about, I think is going to be a good, I guess, like, initial, you know, kind of like first step for people to craft some good, you know, call to actions. But then at the end of the day it's like, all right, what is your hypothesis? Like, you need to go and test it out. You know, make the same call to action for, I don't know, 10 episodes. Go back into the data. What is the percentage of people that actually visited this site due to the podcast? Can I improve that? All right, next hypothesis. Let's test it out.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah, these are both really good points. I mean, there's the overwhelm of, for both the host and the guest of, like, hey, I have options to put 20 things in here. Hey, guests, give us everything. Right? And for you, there's no one size fits all. Like, and I totally agree that on both sides of the microphone, like, test it. Being willing to let it evolve and grow as you grow. So what we are going to go through today, though, are six steps for creating a really effective call to action as a host or as a guest. And so we'll dive into each of these and we'll kind of all share a perspective a little bit here. But I'm excited to dive into this because, yes, it's gonna be different for everybody. But there, there are some clues. Like, success leaves clues, right. That will really help you figure out how to frame this out. So the very first one I have is kind of like a. It's point one, but it's a prepoint and it's to develop, know like, and trust. On the podcast episode, we've probably all seen this happen before where somebody like wants to hold back because they know their call to action's coming. Kind of like they wanted to feel more like a sales pitch than like a, a value adding episode. I think that's a huge no go. I actually had one guest on podcast, this is going back years, and I asked him about a point on chapter four in his book and he literally said, you know what? Like, I really like kind of spilled the secret sauce in that, in that, in that chapter. So I'm going to tell everyone to do is I can't Share that here, but buy the book. You'll be able to learn it. Listen, like, I was like, okay, well we'll move on to chapter six, right? Like, but like the reality is I know people are listening are like, that feels icky, right? Like that didn't develop no like, and trust that tells me you're hiding something from me. What is it? Right? And so I always just tell people, like, give it all away. You wanted to. So you can develop that really strong relationship, that bond with the listener as a host and guest. We both have that opportunity to do that. So that then when you have a call to action, they are now primed and ready to listen and to respond. Well, any thoughts on this, guys?

[Luis]

I think I agree 100%. I think I personally was one of those that were like subconsciously trying to be like, okay, not sketchy, but it's like, okay, it's pretty intimidating, right? Like when, let's say you have an info informational based business, right, where you might have your own frameworks, right? There's that fear that when you're going to share, be like, okay, what what's then like what do I actually sell? Right? And I think that comes maybe as a newie, maybe at that point in the business. But like you said, the more you share, the more you develop that trust or how we call it art, you know, authority, relevancy and trust. And then they're still going to listen. They'll be like, this applies to me. And then what's next? And then the what next is like complete. Read the chapter or like the entire book or the course or whatever comes. And I think that's good. And we've seen it over and over and over. And the people at the top, that's what we've seen happen, right? Like the more they share, the more it comes back to them.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, I think that comes from a scarcity mindset, right? It's like, oh, if I put this out there, somebody might steal it and use it in their own stuff. I'm like, guess what? Flashing is like. You know, you're probably not the only one that that does that one thing, you know, like maybe you have your own unique mechanism, but it can be probably somewhat similar to what other person does. And they just change the name of it or you just change the name it at the end of the day. So I mean it's more than important to just build that rapport inside of the episode. People are going to connect to, to you, to your personality, like who you are. Like, sure, your Product can be selling some sort of transformation, but they're going to be asking themselves, like, can this person, like, do I see myself trusting this person to deliver that transformation at the end of the day? And if you're somebody that is holding up, secrets are going to be like, why are they going to hold up if I buy into their product, right? Like, am I going to have to purchase, you know, the $100,000 mastermind for them to, you know, sell me the next thing that I. That I need? Or are they going to, like, pour openly and just share and, like, genuinely help me out on the next step that I need to take?

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Fonzie. A little bit of experience there, I'm hearing. I don't. I don't know. Has this happened to you?

[Fonzie]

Am I resentful?

[Alex Sanfilippo]

I'm, like, holding the microphone, like, $80,000 level. I'm not doing it again, right.

[Luis]

I think as a consumer, we. We've had very positive experience, but also very negative experience. And that's, you know, once you're in there, you're like, man, like, maybe that's something that we don't do as a business, right? That we. It's crazy. We have consultations here in the studio, and people are like, well, let's say we want to launch a podcast. I'm like, sweet. Here is a blog with all the information for this. In, like, 30 minutes, you'll be able to do it in, you know, right there, like the same day. And then it's like, well, if you want us to implement it for you because you don't want to do it or you don't have the time, perfect, we can do that. But here's the thing. And do it. And it's incredible because people are like, oh, they appreciate that. And then more often than not, they come back and they end up buying the product.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

That's great, man. I love that. All right. Sake of time. I'm gonna keep on moving here. Moving on to number two. This is kind of like getting into it, and you kind of hinted this a little bit, but it needs to be singular. A good call to action is going to be singular. And so both for the host and the guest. And I see this done wrong a lot. Host, ask for ratings, reviews, subscribers. Follow me here. Go to my website. Share the, like, all the things, right? And then the guest, typically, maybe the guest only wants to have one, but the host will go on and be like, okay, well, where else can they find you? And so it kind of. I get the idea is like, hey, here's everything. But the reality is it just needs to be one thing. Like, it's called the call to action, not a call to actions.

[Fonzie]

Right.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

It's called something singular, something specific, because that's what we can remember as human beings. Thoughts on this, guys?

[Fonzie]

Yeah. I mean, personally, my mind goes to a confused mind, always says no, or almost always says no. Right? And there's a. I feel like a study. I don't know who it should be attributed to. So I apologize in advance, but they did a study with, you know, consumers buying jam, and they had this group, they offered them three jams, and then another group, they offered them like, you know, 20 different flavors, and the group that had the least amount of flavors but more than the other one.

[Luis]

Right?

[Fonzie]

Because you get overwhelmed, you're like, okay, what do I do? Me personally, that happens when I have a lot of options. I'm like, geez, this is crazy. The other day, actually, an ad popped up, and I love going into ads and seeing the offers and the offer, I was like, I thought it was pretty decent, but then I scroll down to the bonus side of the offer, and there are like, 20 bonuses. And I'm like, geez, do I need all this stuff? I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, I'm out of here. You know? And I think it's the same exact thing with this call to actions. Like, people will easily get overwhelmed if they are presented with too many options. Right? And so you got to be considerate of your guests, right. If they are there to also promote something, you know, whether that is a course, a book, whatever it is, like, give them a general opportunity. And I know you do something really cool with your guests to, like, promote their stuff, right? But yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's like, kiss, right? Keep it simple, stupid. At the end of the day, Yeah.

[Luis]

I mean, I think at the end of the day, people are in there with you listening to that. So apart from singular, it's also relevant to the topic that you're talking about, right? So, you know, especially in. In our show, for example, we talk about many frameworks and many stages of, like, content and profit. And that's something that openly, I'll say, like, we've struggled to be like, okay, where do we actually send people? Right? And then there was a stage recently where we talked a lot about the monetization side of it, and the call to action was, hey, bistrose co monetize. And that has been one of the most successful ones because he was like from the domain to like the solution that was in there, that was relevant and the feedback was great. So be like, okay, perfect. And maybe in the next few episodes we're not talking about the monetization side, but maybe we're like production. Well, what's the relevant call to action for that? Relevant single call to action.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So that's the next point I want to get into here, which I love.

[Luis]

I'm like mind reading, just, just way ahead of us.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

But I call that relatability. But I think that relevance is probably a better word for it. I should have rewritten that. That's good.

[Luis]

I can your word right? Spanish.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

But relatability, relevance, that, that's really key. Here's the thing, like if you're on a podcast, it's all about golf and you're talking about golf for 20 minutes and then you want to sell your like high ticket coaching package. It you're like, okay, my coaching for golf or coaching for business. Like, what? How, why? Right? Like you want to go on that. That's a great first off sign to guests specifically to get on the right shows. Like go on the shows that are going to align with your call to action, but also align your call to action, right? So like maybe don't go on golf podcast if that's not what your product or service is. Or perhaps if you're the host, like find the thing, right? Like you said, you guys did a series on monetization. Your call to action was monetization driven. Anyone who's listening to episode, you're developing, know like and trust from a monetization perspective with them. If you tell them, the one thing I want you to do now is to go learn more about monetization, that's a pretty easy flow for somebody to follow. There's not a lot of like stretching of the mind that has to happen there. And so I love that you brought that up and that to me, that again, that's point three. Fonzie. Any, any follow up to that?

[Fonzie]

I mean, just be coherent, right? And just put yourself in the shoes of the person that is listening, right? It's like if they listen to this after listening to the whole episode or you know, whatever, you place your call to action, are they going to be confused? Right? So for example, a coherent call to action that I've seen from other podcasters at the beginning of the episode where they still haven't delivered any value is, hey, if you're enjoying this episode, make sure you share it with your friends or somebody that you believe this is going to help them out. That is a coherent call to action. Because it's like, okay, well, I can get behind this. You know, you're prepping them. It's like, if you find value in this, just make sure you share it out into the world. But then after one hour of X Topic, if you hit a call to action with totally something totally different, you know, offering guitar lessons or whatever, and you know, you're talking about monetizing content and then obviously people are just going to be confused, like, wait, what? Why do I need the guitar lessons for? You know, I came here for totally something else. Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So the other point I want to mention here is I think that Evergreen is really important when it comes to this. And a great example. And we've probably all had this happen. You have someone come on your podcast that's an author pre release, and they're really big on, hey, I want to mention like a pre release discount code. And I had one guest on my podcast. This is going back many years. I really didn't know how to handle it, but they were like so forward about like, hey, you told me the date. That's pre release of the book. You gotta mention the pre release, you gotta mention the code and stuff like that. Well, two weeks later the book was out. And so now this whole pre release stuff, I'm getting emails, people are like, how do I get the discount? I'm like, oh, you can't, it's out. I'm like, wait a minute, why did I do that? Right? What was I thinking? We gotta think about the future as well. And is it gonna hold up on an Evergreen perspective? And for me as a host, the way that I've done that is I use dynamic insertion and I bust out my phone here. I don't. You guys don't have to direct me on how close this needs to be, but I want everyone to hear this. What I use is dynamic insertion. So what I do is I only have a call to action on my podcast for me, when it's relevant. And right now it's relevant is the time of recording this. A new version of our monthly industry report came out. And so for four days, it's on my podcast. Before my introduction, I use dynamic insertion. I press a button, basically, and it's automatically in every single one of my episodes. So I'm just going to play it because it's like a few seconds long because I think, perfect. Yeah. And you'll tell me if I'm like too close or whatever. So, hey, Alex here. This month's independent Podcasters report is now available. To see important podcasting related insights like listenership data, active versus inactive podcast numbers, industry download milestones, and many other data points that matter for both podcast hosts and guests. Please visit podmatch.comreport and now let's get into today's episode. Sweet. It rolled into my regular intro and the reason I like dynamic insertion as a host like that is again, that's not relevant in 10 days from now. Like, right, it's, it's done. But right now it is relevant. And I like putting the beginning before my introduction because anyone who's a long term listener, they're used to hearing that, that, I don't know, call it like that sound. And like me saying, you're listening to Podcasting Made simple, when they hear hey Alex here, they already know that, like.

[Fonzie]

Hold on, it's a message psa.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

This is this. There's something else here. This is not what I usually hear. And your mind is like, hold on, I need to hear whatever this is. So, yeah, anyway, we need to keep on moving. Do you guys have like a quick. You have a. You look like you had something there.

[Luis]

Well, to me, I think that's super smart, especially for a lot of the, let's say, new podcasters. Maybe they're getting into this. Dynamic ad insertion might be something that could be intimidating because not a lot of the platforms offer that. So I love that you brought it up because it solves a big problem for a lot of people. So I would just recommend people like, hey, just Google dynamic ad insertion. What happens? Like, where do I do it? And if you are in a platform that doesn't offer it, start considering be like, where can I go and do that?

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah, that's good.

[Fonzie]

I think that's super clever, honestly. I mean, your business evolves, your products, your offers are going to evolve, right? Like, why don't have something that allows you to change those in all your episodes? Because I'm guessing, hopefully, you know, the person that's listening to this, they understand that a podcast has a long tail, right? You're going to keep getting listeners on those episodes, hopefully years from when you first publish it. Right? So you want to definitely make it relevant for them at that moment on how you can help them. And that still serves your business at the end of the day.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah, those are some good points there. And the last thing I'll mention on this is because I don't want to go too deep into it, but I like that it leaves Room for my guests, call to action. When I don't have mine in there all the time, there literally is just one call to action for a guest. I think that's a really great thing because there's only one thing on that episode for the most part, unless it's like my industry report. Right, that's going to need to happen. So moving on to point four. Now, point four is simple to understand. And listen, I think that this is where you laugh a little bit, because I think so many people get it wrong. If I have to spend five minutes explaining my call to action before I can give it one, I don't know if I know it well enough. But also, I can't expect other people to know it. It has to be simple to understand. And I always say it should have the aha moment, which is like, somebody hears like, aha, like, example. When I'm describing pod match people. I'll go through my little bit of a spiel, but I always say it works kind of like a dating app, but instead of connecting for dates, it connects you for podcast interviews. And every time people go, ah, I get it. I get that. Right? Like, I understand that you want someone to hear your short call to action. Like, easy. It's simple. Understand means it needs to be short. But they need to be like, oh, I know exactly what that is. Like, I totally get what that is. To me, that kind of makes or breaks it. Like, what do you think?

[Fonzie]

Yeah, I mean, I've told you this before, but I love the it's like type of framework.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Right?

[Fonzie]

Because you immediately help somebody visualize that one thing that is might be common. You know, they. You know, they will probably know about and then immediately put your thing on top of it. I'm like, wow, okay, it's very easy to understand. And you want to create those images, those feelings when you're sharing your call to action. Now, I do. I think my opinions has changed a little bit in here. That simple doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be short. Right? But. And the reason I say it is because there's different levels of intent. Right. If I. Not Everybody's gonna consume 100% of your episode, but if you have somebody that consumes 100% of your episode, I think you can maybe take a risk. And again, it would be a test. Right. By sharing a longer call to action that really makes them feel, you know, maybe the pain points, you can probably take more time to highlight some of the pain points that, you know, the other side of the offer the Other side of the call to action is solving. And you know, they already gave you a lot of time they invested in you that you can probably build rapport with them. Unlike somebody that, you know, they might just consume the first 30% of the episode, you might want your call to action to be shorter in there. So depending on where you place it, I think, you know, simple. I don't necessarily believe that simple has to be short, right? Definitely simple. But then, you know, you can play with it depending on the level of engagement and rapport you build with your audience.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Man, that's. That's insightful. You've been thinking that for two months while you've been taking off, right? He's just been right there, like rehearsing in the mirror.

[Fonzie]

That was my only thought I have for two months, guys, when he comes.

[Luis]

Back to content is profit. We're gonna have some fire content. Just get ready, man.

[Fonzie]

So I passed the test.

[Luis]

Yes. I personally like a lot of personalized domains. So, like, if the domain itself already gives a hint of like what's coming, it helps people remember that. So you know whether that's like a forward slash or a short domain.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

But so real quick, you actually. Which is the next point easy to follow was the next. And you literally mean the URL that don't like the website that you're sending people to.

[Luis]

And we can talk about it in detail, please.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Let's go ahead. This is a good segue.

[Luis]

But I have a second point to like with piggybacking of what Fonse he said about the end of the episode. I think about the movie, like Marvel movies, right? And they have these like after credit scenes and the loyal fans, like stay there and they watch all the credits or they're on their phones watching all the credits and all this. Oh, they Google. Is there an after credit scene? Right. So you could also pre. You can prepare the audience to something that's coming. Be like, hey, guys, by the way, at the end of the episode, we have something special surprise that's coming. And you could put it at the beginning of the episode, like, oh, what's coming? So either they listen or they can skip to that where it's like a more detailed stuff. So that could be like a very interesting, interesting test that you can do. Imagine a graph at the beginning of the episode, right? The most amount of people, but then maybe the least amount of like total listens, you know, for that. And as the episode progresses, that audience is going to go down. Normally that's the graph of the podcast at the end, those guys are your true fans. It's like, why can't we hide at the end of the episode? That's like a true Easter egg that every single time they come in. I think that will be like a super interesting test to. To perform.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Dude, that's. That's really smart. I'm actually going to try that one. That's great. I like it.

[Fonzie]

Hear me out, hear me out. A secret portal on your website that requires a secret code, let's say a ten letter word. And throughout a series of ten episodes, you drop the letter, you know, as a secret and people type it. And at the end of the series, if they had the whole world, they get like something cool on the other side of the portal.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yo, this is fun. You're gamifying podcasts. Come on, that's fun. Guys. I like this.

[Luis]

Thank you. Taylor Swift, she does that across all her albums. Just saying.

[Fonzie]

I had no idea.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

I had no idea either.

[Fonzie]

I had no idea.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

I'm not a swiftie. I mean, we know you are.

[Luis]

My wife is a swiftie.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So. Okay, you kind of already segue to this fifth point. Easiest to follow. And that's when you were mentioning the URL, so. And I didn't mean to cut you off on that. I just want to make sure it was understanding. But go ahead, please riff on that.

[Luis]

Yeah, I mean, big fan, right? Like, at the end of the day, it's like where we got to put ourselves in the shoes of the people are listening to the podcast. You know, maybe they're listening and they don't have a computer in front of them. They cannot go to the description and click it right? Like, think about the people that might be driving. I am a podcast consumer. Every time I'm driving, that's what I listen, right? Or you're doing an activity or you're running or you're exercising, right? Like, what's easy for that person? And I think another good test to do is like, okay, survey your audience. Like, hey, what do you guys listen to my podcast? Right? At the end of the day, your email list. Are you listening to my podcast?

[Fonzie]

Where.

[Luis]

And then you can find these locations and then you can adapt that. So what I like about domains is like, if you have a simple and sticky domain, people are going to remember that, right? Almost like a jingle, right? Like if you have a jingle, even better with the domain, right? But something like, you know, that for us, I think that helped a ton. That business monetize that word. It solves a pain because it's Helping people solve that problem. That that's why they come to our podcast. So be like, oh, easy peasy. It's like their website and monetize, right? And then we have another one that we'll share a little bit later. But I'm a big fan because it's very easy to remember. And then when you get home or whatever, you'll be like, okay, perfect. This guy said that. I'm just going to type it.

[Fonzie]

I'm going to go with the example for a main website, bizbros co. Every time we share, we're like, it's co not.com, noam. You know, like, you have to explain it. And if you have to explain, it's like, it's probably not that simple, you know, to follow. We get people that send us email and we never get them because they put dot com at the end, right? So, like, can you make something sticky like you mentioned? I like the ones that have humor as well, you know, so a little play of order, whatever. I think those are fun, but I think they align to your personality. Right. If it's somebody that, you know, maybe they don't like to have that much fun on their podcast, you know, they might put you something serious.

[Luis]

Podcast guests, secret code at the end of the episode dot com. Go there to redeem your secret code at the endothepisode dot com.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So I, I like this. I think that we can actually go beyond just the URL. Like, I've seen some people do this really successfully from a guesting standpoint with SMS marketing. So text message. So they're like, hey, shoot me a text. And they give them like the quick number. And like, I think that's a really efficient way to do it as well. Like, I'm all for having a great URL as well. Any of that stuff that just someone can remember. And even better if it's reinforced by the content in the episode, right? Like, if it's already what you're talking about, you're like, man, I can remember that very easily. Real quick, My name's Alex Sanfilippo. I have never told anyone ever to go to alexsanfilippo.com I own the domain. Yes. No one can say it or spell it. That's not a good call to action.

[Fonzie]

I still struggle to spell your.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So do I. All right.

[Fonzie]

Yeah, that's a tough one.

[Luis]

Yeah. I mean, I think traditional marketing, if you see like billboards and like marketing where attention spans might have to be like, very. Like they're compressed like what are they doing? 1, 800 a word.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Right.

[Luis]

You know, and like you're driving by, like, what caught your attention? It's like, how can we model something like that in our shows? Because it's very similar.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah.

[Fonzie]

I think it goes back to A confused mind always says no. Right. If you have a confusing domain there at the end, people are gonna be like, eh, forget about it, you know? So keeping it simple, short, sticky. Simple, short and sticky.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

That's it. I'm gonna move along. Point six. Yes, sure.

[Luis]

Sticky. Okay. That's more like a tinder.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Point number six. You all ready? We're gonna bring it back right here.

[Fonzie]

Yes, sir.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

So value adding and engaging point number six. And to me this is what happens when they follow through to the call to action. So this is like where you land, right? So it's like, cool. I like that sticky domain. I like this, this website they sent me to. I like seeing what we've got here. And what's important is when they get there is that they feel that it's continuing to add value on what it already was. Like, you wanna see that it's in alignment. You don't want any confusion with, did I just land on the right website? Is this the right place or did I go the wrong place? Like you wanna be like, this is what I just listened to. This is what I just saw. You want to immediately reinforce. The other thing I always say is I don't think immediately it should have anything. It shouldn't require an email address or phone number immediately or credit card, anything like that. Like there should be some value presented there. Before that happens, I always go back to the example. And I've been married way too long to use this example. I'm gonna do it anyway. Like if I go to a bar and I wanna, I wanna get a girl's phone number, I don't say, give me your phone number, then I'll buy you a drink. Like, at least for me that would've never worked for some people, they got it. I don't know. But for me I would have to be like, here's a drink, let me talk to you a little bit. Can I get your phone number? Right. I think some of us were like, hey, give us your phone number and then we'll, we'll give you some value. And I just don't think that's the way to do it on these pages. You want to reinforce it once again to help somebody know in their mind, I made the right decision coming here today. Yeah, this is the right Decision for.

[Luis]

Me, I think that's an interesting idea, especially in our world, because some people might consider.

[Fonzie]

Sounds like you asked for the number first.

[Luis]

No, no. I mean, if you're online dating, you ask for the number first and then you ask them out, hey, hey, saying no. But jokes aside, right? Like some people, and this is an interesting debate because some people might consider that the episode was the value. So then people can go to these sites and go and get it. So like I said, treat it as a hypothesis. What do you do if you have a page with information first, provide a ton of value and then you ask for that versus what happens if you ask for that information first? Right. And you know, it all comes down also to you as a creator or as an entrepreneur. Like, are you a value first person? Yes, absolutely. But there's also people that care probably about optimizing this as much as possible. So where do you fall? And it comes down to understanding, like, who you are as a creator or a business owner, or like, what do you want to give? What's the energy that you want to share with the people. But that will be an interesting concept because everything that, you know, at least that we've seen is like, yeah, as soon as the value is, let's say in the content that he's sharing, 100% there, once they get to that page is because they've consumed that, for example. Right. And that's the path. But that would be super interesting to see me, like, perfect. Yeah. I mean, maybe the headlines already providing a ton of value. It's like, hey, click here, you download that if you want the second part. Like something like, I don't know, that will be like a very cool test.

[Fonzie]

Yeah. I mean, to expand on what you said, I agree with what you said that some people might perceive like the main episode to be, you know, the main value. And then you wanna, you wanna build your list and you hear that everywhere, especially Reddit markets, that you wanna build your email list. If one day Facebook shuts down and you don't have access to anybody else's, like, like, okay, it's not, it's probably not gonna happen.

[Luis]

20 years, it's been a while.

[Fonzie]

You know, but at the end of the day, it's like what I said at the beginning. Every business is different, right? Like, your needs are gonna be different. You might be at a stage in your business where you need a high volume of conversations. So maybe your thing is like, hey, dude, like, send me this message and I'll send you the resource for free. You don't need to opt in, but now you have access to that conversation with somebody, right? Or you might be actually in a stage where you are, you know, trying to see if an offer actually works and call, you know, calls people's attention and you want them to vote with their wallet. So you're actually taking them to a sales page of, you know, a low ticket product or something else. Like look into your business, find what are the needs that you have and like make it relevant to that, you know. And I know it's a little contradictory to, we're talking about simplicity and, you know, not complicate things, make it simple. But I think it all starts by looking a little bit inwards into your business and say, okay, what do I need? What are my needs Right here. Can I align my calls to action where I want to lead people to that thing?

[Luis]

You know what could be an interesting test? Almost like, hey, you know how you get sometimes, like you receive this service and just pay what you want, like donation style. So imagine that as an opt in page and the donation is the email or the phone number. So you put everything optional and be like, hey, just click here, you can download it for free. We're not gonna ask for information, but if you wanna, if you wanna get.

[Fonzie]

Spammed for the rest of your life, put your email in here.

[Luis]

In all seriousness, right? Because like, maybe that triggers people to share their information. I don't know, like that will be super cool to be like, you know, instead of like this being like a must. I get turned off every time I have to put in my phone number form, for example, right? I'd be like, yeah, the phone number is like, I don't, I don't know if I want this. Right? So that will be also very interesting. Be like perfect donation wise.

[Fonzie]

You can be like, if you want. Chapter four, put your email in here.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Back to that chapter four. I don't know what it said. I read the book. I read that book, guys. This has been, here's it. I learned from this today. And that's one of the things I love about you guys. I think that as we kind of bring this thing to a close, like our own call to actions, I feel like we have to have them here. And like, pressure's on today, by the way. Like, you know, like pressure is on which one? No, I just mean, like we just talked about it, but like, like I love the unique mind you guys have. I love the way that you guys approach podcasting. And I'm gonna do your call to action for you today because I think one of those powerful ways for a guest to convert well, with a call to action is for the host to do it for them. And so host, I also think it's a pro move. Like, your listeners know, like, and trust you already. They're just learning that with their. With their guest, maybe you'd be the one. And so, like, I wrote this down here because this is kind of like my thoughts, what you guys do, but you guys have created a community that also focuses on accountability for savvy business creators. Like people that are the podcasters and. Or YouTubers even, I guess. Right? Like both those. Those individuals. Video creators. Yeah. Like the people that are actually creating content and just that. That want access to the mind that you guys have. And so I wrote down the URL. I know it's, like, about to be public, so by the time this is out, it'll be public. So see, no pre order. Right. But it's business Creator club. Business creator club. And I think what you guys are doing is just like, like I said, I learned today, like, inside that community, I know there's gonna be so many, like, aha moments for people to be able to say, yeah, I'm taking my business to an even savvier level than it already is. Do you guys have anything to add to that before I. Before we end?

[Luis]

First of all, thank you. Thank you for that. Second, we just hosted our first our people party.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Nice.

[Luis]

For the club. Yesterday at the time of this recording was awesome. We had about 20 business creators in there. It was a great time. It turned out to be, like, a great networking opportunity for everybody. Everybody's like, oh, my God, you live across me.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

What?

[Luis]

Let's connect. Let's do some business. So I'm just very excited. This is something new that we've talked about it for, like, two years. And thank you for helping us put it out out there.

[Fonzie]

Yeah. This is a message, a text message I sent to my brother the other day. And I'm going to actually send it in English. I was going to say I'm going to translate because I send it in Spanish. Says there's nothing that bothers me more than a course with all info and no action. Right. And I think it's the same with, like, communities and what we're trying to build here, which is not just about information, but, like, help people take the step that they need to take. Because I've been in that position, right. Where I love consuming information. I love reading books, I love, you know, watching YouTube videos and all these things. But I think I did it for long enough. There's. There's like a diminishing returns curve to consuming information, right? At first you start consuming it, you're excited. I can certainly do this. And I think that's the point where you need to start taking action. But a lot of people just keep consuming information, right? And maybe finding out other things, and then all of a sudden you're overwhelmed. Like, this is way too much. Can I actually do that? And then doubt starts creeping in, and your bias to take action actually starts decreasing. And then eventually you just, like, are in a hole down there just consuming information, trying to find that motivation that you had maybe a couple years ago, months ago. Whatever time frame it is that you're experiencing, I've been there, you know, So I texted that to my brother the other day. I was like, this is what we need to do. Like, this is what I want the community to be like. You know, the people that we surround ourselves. Like, I want them to be like these guys. Sure, they got great info, but they help us take action, right? Like, whatever it is or hypotheses, we're testing them thanks to them or with them, you know, and see if it actually works or not. And helping us grow our business.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Yeah, that's great. And for the Podmatch community and podcasting made simple communities, we believe the same thing. Action, right? And if anyone's ever heard me speak, even when I do something solo, I'm always looking, like, what's the takeaway that somebody can implement? So after listening, this whole idea of call to actions, having it singular, having it focused, everything we talked about, what is your next step? And I encourage you, if you're watching or listening to this, don't you be like, cool, great information. I know what to do. No, no, go do it. Start implementing, Start learning, start growing. Luis Fonzie, I appreciate you guys. Thank you so, so much for being here today.

[Luis]

Thank you. Alex. Definitely don't go to alexandfilippo.com please don't.

[Alex Sanfilippo]

Thanks again, guys. I appreciate it.

[Fonzie]

Thank you.