A (2:09)

Yes.

B (2:10)

This challenge is specifically for you. Now, we'll say we've had people on the challenge that they don't have an offer yet, so the challenge works. It might be a little bit different. So if you're interested in that way, feel free to join. But my recommendation would be to go to Business Creator Club and that'll be a better place for you. But again, if you do have an offer that's been proven you've sold before, you have sales coming on through a different channel that is not content. And you want to unlock the content side of things, the challenge is for you. So go to Bitrose Co slash monetize, and let's have a blast.

A (2:54)

All right, so just now we literally had a conversation in one of the masterminds that we're in, Shout out to podmatch and the Podmatch Elite group. And there was actually a very. I don't want to call it heated, but it was like a very opinionated art discussion. The prompt was like, what is missing in podcasting today? And I'm going to take a little further. What are we missing in content in general? Because I think what we talked about applies to every type of content creation. So I'll go over a little bit of what, you know, the general consensus was. And I literally, I think I went like third or fourth in, like, arounds. And by that time I have a list of probably 10 different things, the friction points or observations that I've gathered from people that come to create, you know, inside of the studio, or even the conversations that we have. I'm sure Fonse, you have some comments on here too. But before that, I want to show you a clip of Shout out to Colin and Samir. Incredible show episode. I recently, recently listened. This is probably the first like 30 seconds, so I don't know if you've yet, but here, here it goes.

C (4:02)

The focus has shifted away from the creativity part of creator and shifted towards the economy part. You don't have to fit in a lane, there's a million lanes. And if your lane doesn't exist, just go ahead and start it. If you're in it because you want to make money, you want to get the views like you, I don't care.

A (4:16)

About you what you think. Do we have to watch it again?

B (4:23)

I mean, I feel. I feel like I lacking tons of context. So, like, I don't know necessarily what he meant exactly at the. At the end. Like, if you're in it for the money, fuck you, I don't care. Or is it more like, if you're in it for the money, there's still a road for you. Do whatever you want. Like, what did he mean?

A (4:45)

Well, obviously, like, this is the intro for the episode, obviously creates curiosity to go watch it, right? I Did watch it and they talk a lot about cases, leans heavily into the creative mode.

B (4:59)

Right.

A (4:59)

And obviously they're talking context on YouTube and creating content on YouTube specifically with brand deals and searching, monetization and like, obviously, you know, monetizing through the platform is really, really challenging for the majority of the creators. Right. And I think this obviously, because we're, we're a podcast that talks about and we serve people that have businesses. I think it does apply and it creates a debate on how are we framing our creation process based on our business. Are we creating to support a business or are we creating in a sense to make some other kind of fulfillment and personal growth. And I think that's the discussion that we had inside of the Mastermind earlier when we talked about what is missing in podcasting or content specifically. And the initial question turned out because Alex, the guy that runs the pod match and the Mastermind, he talks with some industry leaders and they've seen the data shows that over the last two years there has been a plateau in new podcasts created or new podcasts maintaining the total amount of podcasts active podcasts in the world. Obviously we saw a surge in Covid, but it's pretty interesting that over the last couple of years that has been the case. So there's same amount of people like starting it, but there's also same amount of people, you know, stopping their journey of creation. And I am pretty okay to bet that probably YouTube bigger numbers, but I think it's probably similar.

B (6:35)

I mean it could be personal. I think podcasting is a difficult channel. Right. It takes a lot of effort. Growing is not like social media that pretty much every short form piece of content is like a lottery ticket that you're putting out there. Right. It's not like YouTube per se, where there's like so much discoverability. I mean it is getting there now so that there's on YouTube. Yeah, but I mean in reality is a. Podcasting is a difficult platform and a lot of people maybe come in with the wrong expectations of I want results quicker. All right. And again, it's a long term play, very long term play. Takes a lot of effort to do craft, craft a good episode. I mean, obviously that depends a lot of what type of podcast you're creating, but it takes a lot of effort. Even if it's just show up consistent for 30 minutes, you know, every single week, it is an effort. So I'm not surprised that it gets stagnant. I mean, and Covid obviously when it got that spike, because everybody was at Home. And they were all like, all right, cool. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna make a podcast. I got nobody to talk to. I'm gonna talk to myself.

A (7:55)

Yeah. Yeah. I'll share some of the responses that, like, the people in our mastermind share, and then I'll talk about it, and then I'll go over. Mine was more of a rant, I think, but we'll go from there. But, you know, Courtney, I would be.

B (8:09)

Curious about what are the listener. The listener numbers, right? Like, has that number increased? That for me shows the opportunity, right? Obviously, more number on podcast is the competition in a sense, if you want to put it that way. But honestly, that's better for the standing podcasts that are actively publishing, right? If the numbers of consumers is increasing but, you know, your supply is staying the same is actually way better for. For podcasters. So I'm curious, do you guys talk about that one? We.

A (8:47)

It came up. There's no specific numbers on. On listenership, but Vinnie brought in a very important point in there, like, as well. So I, I think that that's one of the things that I, I put in here to kind of research. I specifically, like, numbers of. Of listeners is murky waters too, right? Because, you know, Spotify has their numbers. You know, Apple has their numbers. You know, YouTube now as a platform, they're claiming to be the biggest podcasting platform out there, right? Like, and then we go back to the definition, like, what is a podcast, right? It's a video conversation or is actually RSS feed. But anyways, like, those are topics for a different episode. But now I think, like, you know what? I guess within the context of what's happening, like, why creators in general, right? Maybe why are we starting? Why are we stopping? Especially on the business side, right? So Courtney mentioned education gap. There's big education gap as far as like understanding what is a show. Understanding, like what it takes maybe for a successful podcast, right? We'll go into the different examples. Junaid mentioned, you know, the owning your own audience when it comes to, like, are we collecting emails, right? Are we communicating with the community? Are we communicating. Came with those people, right? He mentioned the example with Kevin Hart when he first started doing his comedy tours, and Dane Cook was the one showing him how to collect the emails before their shows so he could own his audience and then going into different networks and creating his own platform. Right? Alex, you know, are we. Are we actually good creators? Right? Like, and this is one of the topics that you and me have talked about, you know, are we Actually good at sharing these stories. Are we actually good at providing solutions, giving value? What is good, Right? Ash touched a little bit on the point of like creation for art, which is I think like the clip that we just watched from, from Casey, you know, is this art or not art, right? Like, and how do we frame that, the creation? Are we okay with the results if we lean towards like, not art versus fully creative endeavor? Right. Vinny did touch about, hey, what's missing is the audience, right? Like, this is a guy that, you know, shout out to Vinnie. He's been on, uh, but you know, he works for some of the biggest TV networks in the country. And right now he has incredible, you know, clients that he helps at the top tier of entertainment. And you know, with that background on broadcasting and tv, he now is seeing the same thing here on, on. On podcasting, for example. Like, so Nick also mentioned this super interesting is like lack of monetization programs, you know, from specifically the podcasting platform like YouTube, for example, has a. For YouTube creators. TikTok has. For TikTok creators, right? On. Specifically on PodC that does not exist. So those are some of the answers in there. It's like, why are people maybe not tackling this? Maybe why are they not lasting in long form, you know, content creation and so on. And I think like, at some level you could see that with YouTube, I think, but with YouTube and video content specifically, there might be some programs in place that kind of continue to motivate people to go into, into the space and continue to try things out. What do you think?

B (12:09)

I think in a way too, it could potentially be the lack of immediate feedback in comparison to some of the other platforms you publish and pretty much rather you give feedback. I think the publishing cycle for a podcast could potentially be longer than some of the other ones. Probably comparable to a little bit too. To YouTube. But yeah, probably that lack of immediate feedback or immediate dopamine of some sort of results just turns people off and be like, all right, well, it's not, it's not that viable, right? Also, the cost of, of doing a podcast, right, if it doesn't have to be expensive, but it can get very pricey, just like anything else, right up. I mean, you can have a reel that can be pretty pricey. You can have YouTube videos that can be pretty pricey. But I think people that want to do it and look professionally, right, and they have to invest on microphones or go to, you know, studios and rent them. Like, we know, we know that firsthand. That, right? People that Come to the studio and they don't know really what. What to expect. I mean, it's not only that, but then they got to pay for, you know, the edits and all this things. So, yeah, it can build up on cost rather than. But again, it doesn't have to because you could just go live. What we're doing right now, I couldn't have this microphone and I could just be speaking from my headphones and still be a podcast. Right. That's why we make emphasis on quality of the message over quality of the production any day. But again, I think there's many cases. My question is, am I upset that not that many people are coming into the podcasting industry? Honestly, I don't know. I don't. I don't. Because at the end of the day too, I'm like, well, I want quality podcasts. Right. I want the quality podcast to stay and like those be easy to find.

A (14:09)

Yeah.

B (14:10)

And then if you have a whole lot of noise, like, will that make those podcasts more difficult to find? Not sure. So that's interesting.

A (14:18)

No, I love it. I have a list here of different things that I mentioned in that conversation, more as like, what is wrong? But I want to, like, reframe them. I was like, you know, what are some lessons that we can take as a creator and kind of, you know, move the needle in the right direction, kind of shift the focus on maybe actionable steps here for. For you as a creator and obviously under the lenses of a business creator, like we talked in business creator club and with the challenge. Right. So one is. And this is also based on conversations that we've had all week, especially a couple of days ago, I had one person kind of reach out. They really want to get into the podcasting game. But everything, everything that he was describing, my head podcasting was this thing. And then when he described what his podcast was going to be, it was closer to short form content with influencer affiliate deals. Right. And you're like, well, that brings me to my. One of my first points is education around the type of content that we want to create. Right. Like, have we done the research to see what is the type of content that we really want to go dive in? And is there industry standard that we can base or start from? For example, what are the right expectations? I think a lot of people come, especially the conversations that I have with a lot of people that want to get started in this space with the studio is they come in and they show us some references that are people that have been in the industry or creating content for seven, eight, nine years. And that's, that's a reference that they have on how it has to look, how the flow of the show, the caliber of guests, you know, the caliber of editing, all these things. Right. And obviously, you know, there's, there's a mismatch expectation. Any comments there? Fonts?

B (16:13)

Not really. I mean honestly, you're like expectations on whatnot. But I'm like, you make your podcast whatever you wanted to make it at the end of the day, right? It's like if you, if you get listeners and you have a podcast that it's a one minute format, right? Like a snackable podcast and people listen to it like good, that's great. You know, it's working out for you. But then like, does it have to be of a certain length? I. I don't think that that really matters. Right. It's just a distribution channel, right? It's a different distribution channel. So yeah, that is not.

A (16:54)

I agree with you.

B (16:55)

That is my thing. It's like the, I think the only thing actually this might be of challenge, you know, for people to challenge. But it's like it's mostly audio first platform, right? It's an audio first distribution channel. So people leverage it now that they do the videos and they publish it on, on other platforms, they distribute it in other platforms. But again is. I don't think there's any, any specific set of rules on what is a podcast. If you have a valuable message, doesn't matter how you want to share it, you can distribute it through a podcast and if it's good enough and if it's, you know, catches people's attentions and retain people attention that you're doing a good job.

A (17:38)

Yeah, I'm coming more from the place of, hey, we're launching our new podcast on let's say on a very specific niche market, let's say real estate. Right. And then the reference that they bring us is a very popular Entertainment podcast with 500 episodes, right. And a high production level and high caliber guests. And the expectations on results is, was mismatched. You know, it's like, okay, what can we expect to get millions of views? I've literally have that question asked a couple times. Well, there's, you know, different ways that we can get there, right?

B (18:13)

I mean from the consumer side, I think yes, there's of course some sort of education that you have to provide and in there would be a sense of, you know, a big budget company comes and they want to produce super high quality podcasts. And then they're like, all right, how many, you know, listens can we expect? It's like, that's an honest conversation I have to have with them. And I say, well, if you just publish it, if you spend all your budget on the production side of things and just publish it and don't tell anybody, you can expect very little views, very little listens, right? But if you are putting money in the marketing, right, into advertising, you know, cross promotions, whatever it is, then you can probably have some sort of estimate of how many downloads you can get, right? I mean, yeah, just for an example, right? When we. When we. When we first started with Hopspot that we had that deal with Mopod, and I think we got. I think they gave us like 10 grand to put into advertising for the podcast. We got a downloaded for, like, I think it was like every 50 cents. We would get, like, a new download, right? So based on those numbers, you could give them an estimate. It's like, okay, look, you're gonna get, you know, 20,000 downloads for this episode, you know, guarantee, because I know you're putting this money behind now. The game becomes them. How many people are actually going to. How many people you retain through the episode if you put money behind it? So those are definitely conversations to be had, clear expectations for the people that are coming into the industry. But if they want to do it organically, it's going to take work. You're going to have to potentially do some sort of outreach. Let people know that you have this. If you have a list, lean into your list, send them. The fact that you have a podcast, again, that is always clarifying those things.

A (20:19)

Yeah, that was one of the points here, is like, a lot of people think that the podcast is the marketing or the content is the marketing, but an extra layer there that, you know, we normally have to have the conversation.

B (20:29)

You got to market your marketing.

A (20:31)

Exactly. We still got to market the market. Yeah, completely agree. Right. And. And those are, you know, there's a thousand tactics and things that you can do there from episode swaps, feed fit drops, where you, you know, your episode drops in somebody else's feed and vice versa, right? Like that you can run an ad inside of a different platform. They can give you a call out, you guys can exchange interviews. Like, there's many, many ways, again, that you can place your. Your show in a newsletter. You know, where is your audience? Where is the people that you want to talk to? Where are they hanging out online in person, right. Events has been like, one of the biggest drivers for us, apart from showing up on other shows inside of the network with proven aud, I think there's also a sense of pride for a lot of creators, and I think this is probably lack of education between organic marketing versus paid marketing as well. A lot of people are like, well, you know, the paid option don't even compute. Maybe because of lack of resources or lack of knowledge. But we also have shows, you know, that run in the studio of that we've seen that all they do is like, they run ads because, you know, their benefit for them is like that face value of the channel maybe. And that's pretty much it because it opens doors to new relationships.

B (21:42)

Right.

A (21:42)

I recently had a conversation with one of our newer shows in the studio and they had no idea about, like, the promotion tab inside of YouTube. And I just showed him a little bit of other shows and they're like, this is perfect. And they started implementing it, and guess what? They got the conversations with the guests that they wanted to have because that is the thing that they're looking for. Right? So defining your own goals in your show and then based on those ideal goals, like, okay, how can we get to. To that point?

B (22:12)

Yep, 100. I was next. What other points do you guys cover?

A (22:18)

I think that this was. This was mainly on me. I think a lot this is a general conversation is blaming the algorithm when your content doesn't do good. My take on this is that's an external factor that not. Except the person that designed the algorithm knows how it works. In my specific, very, very personal point of view is these platforms want your content to do good because the better you do, the more people watch, the more money they make, right at the end of the day. So we really have to look inside ourselves and be like, are we actually good at delivering this content? Are we actually providing value and providing a product that people want to consume? So we're very fast to, you know, point the finger out and blame external factors. But truly, when it comes to content and publishing, I think every single successful person out there will tell you that it's also a personal development journey. When you first start creating and when you first start putting your message out there, and there is a process that we have to follow by, you know, understanding what's happening or, you know, mentioning. You mentioned some of the metrics that are interesting, you know, how many people are actually listening to the show, how long are they listening in for, and how many people are dropping off and start making changes. Almost as a scientific approach to your content, to be like what if we make this change and then what happens? Right? Stephen Barlett in one of the.

B (23:47)

I mean, go ahead. Sorry. No, real quick. It's content regardless of the platform. That's the thing is can it get attention? Can you retain attention? And that's what the platforms care about. I mean, just look at let's say traditional media, right? If you have a TV show that, you know, the ratings are pretty low after a while to say they're not retaining people through the show, the, the TV station is probably gonna cut that show, right? They're not gonna air it anymore. Because what they want is people stick to their TVs so they can watch the advertisement that comes, you know, during the show. And that ways of the TV station is going to make more money. So social media is the same thing. Like we are the programs and you know, the social media, they're just the TV stations. So if our content is not good enough to attract people and retain them, why are they going to show it to people? Because if all they do is show bad content, people are just going to, you know, go away from the platform. They're going to go somewhere else that's going to be way more interesting. So at the end of the day, you got to be objective, leave the ego aside and ask yourself, okay, well, I'm not getting the views that I want, or I'm not, maybe I'm getting initial views but I'm not retaining people. And you gotta look at it through an objective lens and ask yourself some hard questions. You know, maybe is my idea good enough? Right? Maybe my delivery is not good enough. And that's how you make changes. Talking about that we, we go through all that stuff in the five day challenge that we do pretty much is scientific content method. Again, the scientific method going back to school. And if you want to learn more about that, just go to bisphros.co/monetize. It's a one on one, five day free challenge is going to be a blast. And by the end of the five days, you're going to have a strategy in place that you can execute for the next 90 days and you're going to know exactly who you're going to be talking to, what you're going to be talking about, how you're going to be creating all this content. You're going to get tons and tons of clarity. So join us at bizros.co/monetize5days for free. Join us. It's going to be fun.

A (26:06)

Yeah, we're here to help you and Support you on taking action because we're done with, like, yeah, I consume that. I didn't take out. No, man. Like, we're here to, like, legit keep you, you know, hold your hand and be like, here's how you take action on this thing and. And create some. Some momentum and, you know, going hand in hand, you know, on that same event that I. From the clip I played, Stephen Burley had an interview too. And he talks about the tiny change that, you know, that increase something like 300%, their. Their podcast consumption and so on. And the principle behind it was sweat, the small stuff. Like, obviously, they have a massive platform, They've been publishing for a long time, and they have a lot of resources. But he mentioned an example of, like, you know, when a guest comes in, they play the music, their favorite song, for example, and they collect that information ahead of time. They do some research on that person, right? They monitor the oxygen levels in the room, right. Like, to that point where it's like they have to maintain it above a certain. A certain threshold. So they're both sharp, not having the conversation and not feeling drunk. Right. Obviously, this. Go ahead.

B (27:13)

I will say real quick, obviously, that's amazing. And you're like, the new ones, like, it's. It's pretty impressive. But then somebody that's starting, they listen to that stuff and they're like, dang, I don't have an oxygen machine that I can put in there for my. For my guests, okay?

A (27:29)

And then they shut down there. And I, like, this is. Of course, the point that he is making is, like, a lot of people out there, and. And I agree with him. It's like, okay, why are we looking for excuses of whatever, like, work with what you got. Like, the. One of the things that I think helped us get this show off the ground and now that we're massively successful with the show, but I feel like our show has created opportunities for us to do this full time and on our own business without having to do anything else, for example, right? So it's like, how are we different? And one of those things were, like, the live intros with our guests initially. And we have music and, like, work with what you have. How can you create an experience with, like, little details, right, that might mean something for your guests, for yourself? Like, how can you do that 1% improvement? Is it, like, maybe you saved. And this is an example for somebody in our community, right, where, like, they saved, you know, for a full month to get a better microphone, right? A couple hundred bucks extra and that for them, that was like the 1% better that month. And then after that is like, maybe I get a sidelight or maybe, you know, I leave work early so I can, you know, record with natural light instead of like, you know, if you don't have any lights, like, for example, those are little things that we can control. And every single week, if we go back through the process and we get better, or like, how do I deliver a better hook? Like, how do I, you know, deliver a better title, a better headline? You know, am I continuing my education on, you know, on the craft? And then that leads me to an explanation like, are we enjoying this process? Do you enjoy working with the partners that you're working right at the end of the day? It's like all these things that will help you move the needle forward.

B (29:12)

I was going to say something and I forgot, but Yes, I agree 100% with everything you're saying. Yeah, just what you got. I remember now what I was going to say. Alex Orosi talks about this a lot, which is you can be different just by doing like 10 minutes or 15, 20 minutes of research before the thing that you're going to do. And that applies. He usually talks about that in the sales environment, conversation. But it's the same with podcasting. Like we've been in shows that you can tell, like, dude, they didn't, they haven't listened to anything on that that we talk about. They don't really know us. And that was differentiator when we first started doing interviews is that we would spend before the show, couple of hours literally just creeping over the guest social media trying to learn what weird things they like or what songs they like. Right. Like one of our guests, we noticed that they always walked out on stage for live events to a specific song. So guess what? We got the song. We loaded up on the Rodecaster. When they come out on the show, we play that immediate report. They were like blown away for that. Some of them we make jokes. Right. About the things that we notice. And then during the conversation we bring them up to just create that feeling of report as well. So you can really differentiate yourself by doing just a little bit of research. And not just on the interview based conversations. Right. But any other sort of podcast that you might want to be doing.

A (30:45)

Yeah. Even with, even with short form content. I mean, you know, if you have one of these guys, I'm showing a cell phone, you know, you have a pretty decent camera and microphone that will allow you to create at the end of the day. So it's like, how can we be a little bit different? Is it like what I'm wearing? Is it like maybe a message on the back of the wall that I'm recording? Is it like the angle that I'm recording at the end of the day? Right? Is it. What I'm saying, like, that's the thing. Like, people, I think, put a lot of attention in, like, the way that it looks versus, hey, what's coming out of my mouth is that actually good, valuable content for the audience that I'm talking. And value will be different for, like, any different types of audiences, right? Like, there is content literally for everybody. What was the example? I think it was like, Alex or even with these guys. Oh, yeah, Casey, on the. On the video I showed you that full interview, he talks about. They ask him, like, who's a creator that you've been, like, obsessed with lately, or you've been, like, consuming? And he names this guy. I forget the name. And it's like, guess the topic. And he's like, World War II history. And the guy is like, I've seen this guy evolve over the last five years, but the topic for him is fascinating. And to me, personally, I can care less. But for him, he likes it. And so two other million people that subscribe to this guy's channel, right? And as a creator, you know, he initially was a talking head video, and then he became better, and then he got some resources, and then he continued to evolve. But he has probably, like, hundreds of videos in the platform, putting in the time, putting in the reps, learning and moving and. But he has the audience for, like, that niche content. So at the end of the day, it's like, what are we saying? What we're saying? Does that make sense? That adds value to the people, and we appreciate every single person that has, like, stuck with us in content profit over the last few episodes. Because sometimes I know that we chat and we create in a way that maybe makes not a lot of sense, but here we are.

B (32:41)

So done with love.

A (32:43)

Yeah, we're here with love. So. And again, like, we've said it repeatedly, right? Like, we create the show first also for us, right? It's a way to communicate, a way to, you know, bring energy to document the things that we're doing and to share what we've been learning. So sometimes it's going to be raw, and sometimes it's going to be a little more structured. Fonse, are you good?

B (33:04)

Yeah. 100.

A (33:05)

I mean, am I delayed in your.

B (33:07)

No, no. You get. The thing is, Okay, I got, I got people in the house right now, so I'm like muting myself and I'm muting.

A (33:13)

Oh, okay, okay, okay. Makes sense. It's fine. We can still hear them. But anyways, I think, I mean, I think that concludes. I think it was a little bit of a, you know, rant or like, what's happening in the space. I'm, I'm definitely interested if you are a creator, if you're, you know, creating on YouTube or social media or even podcasting and you're facing some of these challenges or you're like, oh my gosh, like, what's next? Like, how can I, you know, how can I do this? Or maybe you find a solution for your show. Like, how do you define success for your show, for your content? And you're moving the needle forward. It's giving you results. We want to hear from you, we want to showcase your story. One, if you want to, want to be a guest on the show. And two, we'd love to, you know, share the business and kind of what you're doing with content in there. If you're that person that is looking a little bit extra help. Bizarre. Co monetize. Jump on. That five day challenge is going to bring massive traction to you. And if you want a little more general open Q and A kind of session with the community business creator club, we hang out there every Thursday at 11am and there's other resources that you can lean on to do that. Today I was working on our special studio podcast with podcast editing process. Baby, let's go. It's almost ready. So we can put in there. If you want to just record or you have just recorded, you want to edit, use your own tools. I am sharing everything in there, guys, so I'm excited. Fonzie, anything else before we head out?

B (34:39)

No. I'm excited to see you guys in the, in the challenge. And don't be afraid to create. Regardless of the platform, regardless of the distribution, if you feel like you really want to jump into short form content or you really want to jump into YouTube or podcast and just do it right at the end of the day, the first one is never going to go viral. It's never going to go great. But the whole, the whole game is a game of improvement, right? Can you get a little bit better on your next round and then a little bit better on the next one after that? And that constant improvement is what's going to make the difference and was going to help you, you know, leverage your content for profit.

A (35:23)

That's right. All right, guys, take care, and we'll see you on the next episode.

B (35:27)

See you.