A (3:59)

As I say, did zver help him, Freddy? You know, we talked a lot on this show about Zverev. You know, can he win a Grand Slam? You know, it feels like that was his moment, right? Serving, serving for the match in the fifth set. You know, we've known from time to time he's, he's not being able to, to go through the door. When that door's open, is, is this going to be a one that he's going to be hurting from? I know he put a brave face on. Obviously it was a gigantic effort by him as well. But is, is this also part that Alcaraz was lucky to come up against Verev, who's not quite ready to go through the door in those key matches?

C (4:38)

That's not, not how I saw it. I think obviously a big thing for Carlos was that he was up two sets of love when he started to, to feel the effects. And when the match came to the conclusion, he had enough time to kind of survive and fatigue Zverev. And for me, in my point of view, it was all physical at the end. Zverev was gassed. He was not getting pop on the serve. He was not moving particularly well after the first ball and making some easy mistakes that he usually doesn't make. He didn't really have. He wasn't very animated physically. And the way I saw it, I just thought he was physically gassed. You can say he helped him, but I actually felt like he was in a good frame of mind. I thought the hold to five three in the fifth was fantastic. And I thought, okay, got it over the line there. Carlos had a few break points, came up with a huge forehand to end the game. I actually felt like he was mentally in a good frame of mind, and maybe that's why it wasn't. It might not hurt him as much this time because he was. I think he was just dead, like, physically toast. And, and when it comes to that, you know, that racket speed Carlos has is a little more natural, whereas Sveris is a little more, you know, big swings, heavy heaviness, and might not be as, as easy to generate that kind of whip on the ball that Carlos does. And I think that kind of made the difference at the end. He had some fantastic shots, and obviously when you've been on the court for that long, you just need a, A bolt of energy. And Carlos was really, really feeding up the crowd as well. I think he did well there. It was maybe a bit much at the end kind of celebrating like he, he won a, he scored a goal in football every time he won a game, but I don't think it was too bad, but I think he did a good job for himself feeding off that energy and using whatever he can, he could to. To. To generate whatever adrenaline mentality, belief that he needed to win that match. And obviously also when you're, when you're that tired, it can be tough to see the end of the tunnel when you have to win a whole set. And, and the, the third and the fourth was, was. Were obviously very close sets, but he had a cushion somehow because he had the first two sets, but fifth set, five three, it's kind of now or never, and there's no way back. And I think it was a whole combination of things, and I don't actually think that Zverev had much to blame in this situation. I think he actually, I was impressed

A (7:06)

by him and Vozy. Another, I guess, medical question, really. Obviously, Alexander Zverev is, I believe, 28 years old. He's been around for a long time. It feels like this is the most we've heard about his Diabetes than in any time. You know, obviously he, he's been dealing with that for, For a long time, but it feels like it's come to the forefront and that's something, you know, maybe he's bringing it out so that we can respect him a little bit more. Rightly so. You know, I know, you know, how. How big of an impact is that on. On Zverev, you think in a match, five hours, 27.

B (7:44)

Huge. Yeah, huge. Huge. Huge. Huge. Obviously, you know, you'll have. He'll have sugar spikes, sugar lows. And so, you know, he, you know, we've seen him take the pen out in matches and inject himself, so, yeah, it definitely affects him, but ultimately would I say it affects him as a, you know, make it to the top of the game or winning slams. No, but obviously he's very experienced and knows how to manage it in matches, and I think he plays it down a bit, really. I mean, you know, I think even in this last one, you know, he, he was like, you know, I don't want to talk about the injury timeout that Carlos took thinking, you know, he, he was clearly cramping, but said he had an injury. It's very ambiguous the, the rule and how players can. Can manipulate it. He. He didn't, he didn't want to talk about that. He said, look, it was a, it was an epic match. It was a great match, and you didn't want to. You didn't want to take any of the limelight away from that. And, and I think it's the same. Same with this, his diabetes. I mean, it's, it's obviously it's something that's very manageable, but, yeah, he's got to be careful. But, you know, it's not, it's not do or die for him on the court, but, yeah, he's just got to be aware of it.

A (9:00)

Yeah, no, I think he came across well at the end.

B (9:03)

That was one of the best interviews he's done.

A (9:05)

I agree.

C (9:06)

Yeah.

A (9:06)

Yeah, because he doesn't always. He often carries an edge or he. Correct, you know, but, but I do. I think he really did.

B (9:13)

He handled the, he handled the question really well because obviously I was talking to the supervisor in Germany, you know, and he basically summed it up. He said, you know, you know, basically, I think, you know, it's. Was. Was his summary. It's, it's. It's not an interest cramp. But he said, I don't want to talk about it. Let's, let's, let's, you know, let's not tarnish a great match, which it was.

A (9:35)

No, it was, it was. And it felt like day 13 was needed, you know, after the first 12 days, you know, we were, we were building towards that. But Freddie, I want to. Before, obviously there's lots to kind of unpack. Obviously we started on the, on the men's side and I, I think we, obviously Djokovic. We're going to have to move to, we're going to have to move to Sinner. There's, there's, there's some different story lines, but just on Alcaraz, you know, the, the youngest ever career Grand Slam, you know, we, before our eyes, you know, before a little quiz for you guys. Before age 23, Alcaraz has already won seven majors. How many Novak Djokovic won at that age?

B (10:18)

Was it three, four?

C (10:20)

Yeah, something like that. I was going to say maybe, maybe even two. Two or three.

A (10:25)

One. Roger, Roger Federer.

C (10:29)

Two one.

B (10:30)

I'm going three. Also one. Also one. Yeah. He won Wimbledon, didn't he?

A (10:34)

Beyond bog zero.

C (10:37)

Ah, he quit at 26, didn't he? With 11. And he had five and five.

A (10:40)

I mean four six.

C (10:44)

I thought you put that was a trick question.

A (10:49)

You guys, on flying with this quiz, I'm gonna give you the Nadal Nadal 6 as well. We also, we also known. So Carlos Alcaraz is 290 when leading two two sets to one. He has beaten Novak, Djokovic and Sinner en route to every Grand Slam he's ever won. He's 7 and 1 in Grand Slam finals and 30 against Novak. He's also on his way. I think this is interesting to having the most ATP points at one time of all time. You know, he's in a position where he could be absolutely kind of slamming the records left, right and center. You know, we talked about it before the event. You know, Juan Carlos Ferreira. What effect is this going to be? We talked about it in 2025. Can this guy focus? You know, is this guy able to turn up week after week?

C (11:39)

Yeah, I was just gonna say let' Hope he'll start focusing sooner. Let's start. He'll get his head right and focus on the, on the task ahead.

A (11:45)

I mean, what, what, what else can we say about. And he does it all with a smile on his face. He does it. He does it with absolute joy. He does it whilst holding doors open and giving fist pumps to the security guards. As he's walking through the corridors, you know, he just seems like this is, this is someone who is getting life Right. What, what, what, what, what can you say about Carlos Alcaraz, Freddie?

C (12:08)

Well, what I can say is that what you just mentioned there is so important to me because my impression with the youngsters out there and the players coming through is that it's almost illegal to have fun while playing tennis when you're young. It has to be serious. You have to want to be a world champion and all this and that. And I just think this proves that there's a way to get the most out of it. And I think it's also very healthy. I think he's gonna be, you know, whenever this life ends, I think he'll, he's gonna be fine in his post tennis life because he seems like he's very sound, he's got his friends and family and it makes it, I think it's so nice to see in a tennis world that's become pretty sterile and PR. Manufactured to see a little bit of life, a little bit of, of joy for the profession and go out and say that he needs to party with his friends and all this. I'm all for it. I'm a big fan of it, and I think the world needs a little more joy, especially the world of tennis. I want to see more joy. I want to see people enjoy their tennis more. I don't want to see 13 year olds being in such agony because it's such torment for him to play tennis and watch matches and feel the pressure of their parents and surroundings and whatnot. I prefer to see this. This is inspiring to me. This is a role model. You can say, hey, look at Carlos. You know, you can say to your kid, well, the world's best player does it. He smiles, he enjoys his life, he works hard. He works as hard as anybody, but he enjoys it on the way. So I'm all for it. Love it.

A (13:46)

A few words, Fozzie. Carlos Alcaraz.

B (13:48)

Yeah, I mean, I mean, as long as he keeps perspective, right? You know, you're a long time retired. We know what happened to Bjorn Borg at a very early age. As long as he got the right advisors around him and, you know, the right, the right circle around him that he can continue to enjoy what he does, but, but have the right balance. The balance is the most important thing. And so I don't, I don't want to see another sad story where, you know, we don't see much of him after the age of 26, 27, for whatever the reasons. So, you know, that's a, that's a combination of what's happening Outside of tennis, managing his, his tennis load and volume, managing the team around him. I mean, the team, I mean, I saw it's, it's massive. It's huge. I mean, I didn't realize. Yeah, that's, that's big. So I think there's 11, 12 people there. I mean, it was like, like a football team, you know. You know, gone are the days where it's just the coach and the player or coach, player, trainer. I couldn't believe how many people were there. So, yeah, it's just managing that and, and managing which I'm sure, you know, they, you know, they can have the right people there to make sure that they haven't got hangers on, etc. Etc. Or people there for the wrong reasons.

A (14:57)

Do you know what, though, that hits me because I've. I've just got back from Melbourne. There is, there is a big team, but I often see him without them, so I often see him. Like sometimes you, you'll see players and they're walking around and they've got their entourage constantly walking with them or they're bringing food for them or they're, you know, they almost kind of doing everything for him, whereas he. I'll share really quick little, little story that I think for me is everything about what I love about Carlos al us. And there's a couple of guys, actually, one that trains at the Academy, my Academy, Tom Lindley and then Adam Jones, who, you know, who's also going to be coming onto the pod. We might even get him on later, actually in this episode for 10 minutes because he was warming up Carlos Alcaraz and, and Rabbakina for the whole two weeks. And, and I was actually. It was before the semi final that Gabby and Louisa were playing and I was getting an expresso for Gabby, she was getting a taping and all of those things. So I was up at the coffee bar and Jonesy and Tom were there. And as they were there, Alcaraz walked with his plate of food and sorry to, to spoil your nutrition, Carlos, but he had a massive plate of chips. He had like a steak and like big French fries. This was the, this would be the day before his semi final. It wasn't the day of. And as he then walked past, he came up to Tom and Jonesy because he'd been, he's been hitting with them and he just fully came over. He came over, he said hello to me, but he was literally just bantering like they all the same age, 22 years old. And there was all of this banter flying around basically about the practices, about, you know, how it's been, how he's handling the spin that Jones is putting on his forehand and how he's doing this. And it was, it was just such, like, light heart. He could have just been one of the hitting partners. There was no difference. There was no, like, feeling of anything of like the humility, the. Just every. Everything about it. And not one of his team was in sight. And then off he goes. He has his food. You know, he. And I think that normalization is, Is what we see with Carlos Alcaraz that we just don't see by many. So I do think he's in good hands. I do think he's. He's also got his head screwed on. And obviously lots of things can happen this world, but I, I certainly don't see this story going downhill from a mental health or welfare perspective in injuries can happen and things can happen and, you know, touch wood, they won't. So if, let's say he does stay fit and healthy over the next 10 years, is it. Is it. Do we start talking about him? That 20, that 24 number, not feeling so far away?

B (17:53)

No, it's too early, man. It's way too early. I say the next four, four years, five years will. Will have a big say in where you'll end up with the Slam. The Slam count my opinion, a lot can happen.

C (18:06)

There's also a lot of wear and tear in a very young age.

B (18:08)

You know, physically, it's way too early to tell. You've been a typical media mogul. You are just throwing it out there. I'm not having that.

A (18:17)

You know, we're now at nine majors in a row. One between, Between Sinner and Alcaraz. You know, the most consecutive Slams ever won by two players. Same two players was. Was Roger and Rafa. 11. We talked about pre event. Is anyone gonna get close? I don't think they are. You know, it's. It feels like the, the next few are gonna go again to Sinner and Alcaraz. But what we didn't see coming was the old boy, the old man. You know, we, we. We talked about it. Vozi, we made you an Instagram superstar with your little clip of talking about Novak. And what you said, rightly so, before the event is you don't believe that he's able to win those matches when you have so much tennis in your legs already. Well, the last, the last set that he won was in round three before he then found himself in the, in the semi finals. Yeah, against Janik Sinner and, and we saw what he was then able to do against Yannick Sinner and get over the line in five set.

B (19:25)

Yeah, I still stand by what I said. I mean like, like you know, obviously, obviously around a 16 walk over and he's done two sets to love against Mercedes. So I think all of those put him physically in good stead going into, into the semi finals. I think it would have been a completely different ball game if he had played five sets in round or four sets in round of 16 and taken Mercede to five in the quarters. He would have had too many miles on his legs. And then I, I think, I think that just, just playing that one five sets against Sinner which by the way was an unbelievable match and, and you know it was like winding back the clock. But then Novak couldn't recover quick enough and be the same player against Alcaraz. But, but then also having said that, I think Alcaraz has too much variation on, on, on ball flight and ball pace that basically messes up his rhythm versus say somebody with Sinner who's hitting it flat all you know, through, through the air. And then Novak, Novak, Novak's backhand line was, was a key shot through that whole match. But yeah, no, no, no disrespect but yeah, I mean he, he, he's 38 and these guys are in the early 20s. You know, these guys by just nature forget, forget going in hypoxic chambers and, and doing all, all the oxygen tests or whatever, but just by, by, by age they've, they're going to recover a lot quicker than a 38 year old. And, and you know, and, and Novak finished what at two in the morning? So his recovery time and, and he did look, he didn't look physically as honest as he was in the semis. You know like when you, when you

C (20:57)

finish at 2, right. Vasi, what, what time did you go to bed then? Probably around seven.

B (21:01)

So yeah, so I mean Wayne, Wayne Ferreira played Richard Krychek when I was working with Wayne and he by midnight he was done two sets to love and Wayne won and five. And so we finished at hop past two. Then we did our cooldown jog in the underground car park at Rod Laver Arena. Then he did press, we got back to the hotel five and then he did a full body massage which, so I was in bed at six and then so, and then on that Saturday afternoon, so he played on the Friday, the third round. Then Saturday afternoon he, him and Dave Adams played doubles and then On Sunday he was playing Concero, you know, the, the Millers love matured cat and he just, he was gassed. He lost in straits. You know, Wayne lost in straits then. So to answer your question. And back there, back then, the recovery modalities and, and science used was. Was nowhere near what it is now, you know, 20, 26, 27 years on. But we tried, we tried our best within that. But yeah, you know, you're going to bed at that time, you're behind the eight ball straight away. And Novak probably didn't get to sleep till probably similar time, maybe, you know, five, six o'. Clock.

A (22:11)

The adrenaline and the thinking, all of

B (22:13)

that,

A (22:15)

it's one thing going to bed, it's another thing sleeping.

B (22:17)

Yeah. And then, and then there's nothing sleep and nothing having good sleep. And then what you're doing that whole day on Saturday is firefighting, completely firefighting to get ready. And yeah, he gave it a great shot, but yeah, he was, in my opinion, he was. Was a different player in the final.

A (22:32)

He started very, though, Freddy, and it, it seemed, in the final, it seemed very, very clear, right? He was, he was going after Alcaraz's forehand, you know, a very, very clear strategy. It was working for a while, right? And you could even, you know, Alcaraz was talking to his, to his box. You know, what do I do on my forehand? I'm struggling on my forehand, My forehand, you know, his, his comments to his box were very forehand dominant. I did like the adaptation that Alcaraz made. I think he shortened the swing a little bit on the forehand. I think he was swinging a little bit big at first and he was getting caught. But it was interesting the way Joic started that match and maybe he's given other people a little bit of a. Bit of a. Bit of a print there on, on the way to try and play Carlos Alcaraz.

C (23:18)

Well, he's always been a very smart, tactical player that understands how to, to hurt his opponent in the best way and he still does that. And he, like he beat Carlos last year, right? He did a lot of good stuff there. We saw him in French Open last year hitting the ball bigger than he has in a long time because he knows what's needed of him and he'll come in and do exactly that. But like Vasi says, it's just too much to ask to recover. I mean, Carlos was done with his match five, six hours before. While having the age advantage is a huge advantage for him in that final. Going in and yeah, he started off great, but he knows, Carlos knows, they both know that there's a long way to best of five and, and, and it just shows that it is a difficult task.

B (24:06)

But you know, Novak at best has to win that in three sets.

C (24:09)

Yeah, exactly. And, exactly. And, and he gets down a break early in the second and then immediate. I mean after the first set for about two minutes, I'm like maybe, I mean after. I didn't expect him to beat Sinner, but I, I always say, you know, the big ones of the sports, the, the, the, the Jordans, the Rogers, the Novaks, the Messi's, the Ronaldos, never, ever ruled them out as long as they're going on to the court or the pitch or whatever they play on. And I feel the same with Novak and he's just proven that. But it still shows that it, it only goes so far because he did probably do the best he could and he still came up short.

B (24:47)

Like I said, like if Novak play, if that tournament's best of three, Novak's got a shot. Yeah, but I even go down that road of, of the cumulative effect of best of three. But he's got a better shot at best of three. But best of five.

C (24:59)

I think, I think he even has a, I think he even has a D. Has a better chance. If his semi final against Sinner was the first of the day and Alcaraz plays the second, I think that even plays, that plays a part.

A (25:10)

But he did have a break point at the end of the fourth.

C (25:14)

He did have the break point, but I mean there's still a long way to go.

A (25:17)

No, no, but there is, but that he wins that breakpoint and it was a bad forehand miss. You know, it was a pretty run of the mill forehand.

C (25:27)

But, but why, why did he miss that?

A (25:30)

Well, of course, and I know it's, but it's. I guess it's the beauty. What I love about our scoring system and, and one of the things I did here was, was Yannick Sinner won 52 of the points against Novak Djokovic in the semi final. But Novak Djokovic won the match in five and Carlos Alcaraz won 52.5% of the points in the final, but won in a relatively comfortable four set match. You know, and this is, I guess the, the beauty of our sport, right, is it's winning those, keep those key points and, and I think Djokovic obviously did win the key points. I believe he saved 14 or 16 of 18 outbreak points against Yannick Sinner. You know, he, he found a way of winning those key, key, key points in that match. He didn't quite manage to do that against Alcaraz, but it still felt to me watching if he did. And I know it's, I know the percentage chat the chances are against you if you're not the one that's building the pressure, you know, but if he did win a couple of those key moments, I think that would have been a very interesting fifth set. I really do. And I think he was, he was a little bit closer than maybe. I think a lot of people gave him credit for actually, because when you. He was, he was hanging on in that four set, but he did hang on and then he put, he get. It was one shot, one point. Okay. You know, and to, to win tennis matches you normally need more. But I thought before we move on, because I wanna, I wanna jump into Yannick Sinner as well is his interview I thought at the end was very, very interesting one. I thought he was very endearing actually, which I think he's getting better at. I think, you know, clearly one of his, one of his life ambitions is to be loved in the sport. And I think, you know, he was obviously made up with the kind of adulation that he's receiving from, from the crowd. But was he saying goodbye? You know, was that, was that Novak Djokovic finally, finally admitting that maybe, maybe the time is coming to the end?

C (27:32)

I mean, just to your point about being endearing storyboards is I, I like this chip on his shoulder that he's coming out with more. He's much more. I like it much more. He kind of gave a bit of a pushback to a question and oppressor as well about being chased. And he's showing much more his natural side. And I like it because he's got versatility. You know, he's got so many good sides. He's got a little bit of an angry sides. He's got the whole thing and I like that of him. I feel like he's really come into a more to a way of being natural more. And I actually think that instead of, you know, wanting to have people like him and trying to make that happen, people are liking him more because he's just more genuine and the genuine side of him. I mean the downside is not as big as the upside because he has so many good things. Like you genuinely, you know for a fact that if somebody needs something in the, like if there's a, if a charity race in Australia, if there's A whatever or if people need help or whatever. I feel like he's the one that's most likely to help out. So it doesn't bother me that much when he gives a little bit of a spiky answer or have pops here and there because that's part of it. I like that side of it and, and I think it's definitely helped his, his legacy and. Yeah. Was he saying goodbye? I don't know. Too, too much interpretation into these interviews. I don't give too much. I actually don't like the post match interviews. I always turn away. I find them cringe worthy to be honest.

B (29:02)

Yeah, for me that was just theater. Yeah. Just, just creating, creating emotional drama at the end. I mean I think he's, I don't think he's going to be Novak's. I don't think Novak's gonna say at the end of one tone, right, I'm done. I'm not playing anymore. I think there'll be announcement of I'm finishing on at this event in this year or whatever.

A (29:22)

If he'd won, would he have quit on the spot?

C (29:24)

I said that, I said that to my wife. Watch him do a mic drop here and just say that's it.

B (29:30)

See you later on on that. That would be the Novak way, I think, I think that would be, that, that would be Novak to a T if he had won. And I think I, I look, I genuinely think the, the, the best, best slam for him to win would be Wimbledon.

A (29:46)

Yes. The issue that he's got is the same issue that we talked about before physical. He's not gonna get given two matches. You know, that was massive for him. I mean he won in straight sets, first three matches then, then he, he got the walkover. Then he was, he was done. He was, he was cooked. Against Musetti he was done. He wasn't even running for balls. He was finished. He was mind made up out of there. You know that, that was like, just like from the gods sent him that. So I don't even think physically he used that much against Mercedes because he actually wasn't even running for balls in the second set, you know, so, so to be given those two matches is, is unlikely. And I know what happened to Yannick Sitter times. You know it happened to, to sinner against Amitro at Wimbledon. Had happened to sinner last year with the net against Holger run in in Australia. And then obviously this year he looked like he was done, you know, early, early rounds. And I think that that brings the questions on Yannick Sinner as well from a physical standpoint as well. Vozy, because he's yet to win a match ever over 3 hours 50 minutes. You know, every time the match has gone over 3 hours 50 minutes, he's lost every time the heat is, is up and I know he's fair skinned and it's, and it's difficult, but it seems like he, that, that is a real kryptonite. Yannick Sinner as well. Yeah.

B (31:15)

Yeah. So for me the whole, the whole thing about playing a grand slam is to, to play in the adverse conditions, have night match schedules, have midday or mid afternoon schedules. But you know, these, these, these top players are protected, 100 are protected with, with their scheduling. I, I do question, I do question his physicality that when, when it's hot now, whether that's a physical thing or whether it's a tension thing. But I do question how, you know, how, how physically strong is he. But he seems to bounce back pretty quick. I mean, you know, I've watched him, I watched him in Beijing, one set all one all against Dan Evans going into full leg cramp, full leg cramp and managed to manage somehow to, to turn around and win six three in the third. But I do, I, I do, I do question, I also just question his pain threshold as well. Like, you know, and I remember Darren Cahill talking to me in, in Vienna indoors saying that's one thing that they're trying to improve with Janik is you know, the, the physical visuals that he shows to the opponent and you know, how, how bad is it and is it, is it, is it necessary to, to be like that? But, but you know, he's a wiry worry physique, but I, you know, I think he could obviously get fitter and stronger. Yeah.

A (32:41)

Do you think these guys are. Because you can get like things like you can get IVs if you get a TUE, which, which yeah, you have to be careful. Yeah, yeah, you have to be careful. But you, if you, but you can get, if you get a tue from water and from the, from the tournament to say okay, this is needed. Do you think in that situation where

B (33:06)

this is needed for what?

A (33:08)

Well, let's say Alcaraz and Sinner, the cramping episodes. Do you think that they would have been given IVs after that?

B (33:17)

Oh, I, they would have to have to clinically be signed off for the reason for that, that it was potentially a, for, for a health scare if they didn't. I, I mean I'm, I'm, you know, I'M not too sure. Also, I'd be worried about what, what they're putting back in their bodies and,

A (33:39)

and often they're just kind of these saline. Saline drips.

B (33:43)

Yeah, the saline drips. Yeah, but you'd want, you'd want to, to put in, you know, like the, I mean, that look, they've, they've all, they've all got these, you know, they've all had their, their blood analyzed, their, their sweat analyzed. So, so they'll, they'll have the right mix of, of electrolytes specific to their specific bodies that they need to take in. And they would have had the sweat swabs, but, you know, obviously, you know, I remember Rafter used to cramp a lot, but, you know, he had sweat swaps done and stuff. Stuff. But they never really came conclusive on the reason why. He just, you just had to manage it, you know, and look after it. But yeah, I mean, look, it wouldn't surprise me if it came out or came out that they had, they had IV drips.

A (34:24)

But the reason I asked the question. So Gabby, Gabby Dabrowski. So Gabby Gabby got a stomach virus halfway through the tournament in Melbourne and was in quite a bad way. You know, diarrhea, vomiting. And in the quarterfinal match, they, when she finished the match, they won 6, 1, 7 6. If it had gone to three sets, she was done. She couldn't, she was done. She could barely stand up. We then they were playing the semi finals the next day and she wasn't keeping any food down. She'd been. And when we went to speak to the doctor to see what could be done, you know, basically we were told nothing. But they, they would, would like to maybe put an IV in to help replenish. However, it's going to take three or four days to get a tue. Come through from, from water. And in my head, if you've clinically decided or can see that the player for very, very valid reasons needs. Needs.

B (35:33)

Yeah.

A (35:34)

And it's very legal and it's. Yeah, I would imagine if that was Alcaraz and Sinner. Yeah, you're waiting three or four days for that.

B (35:40)

Yes. I was just about to say, why is it taking three or four days when we've got, you know, electronic communication and phone calls and WhatsApp etc.

A (35:48)

And the, the reality isn't Gabby's a warrior. And she went out the next day in the semi final. Under, under, you know, still in. And then she, she at 3:1 up in the third set, started cramping and was, you know, that wouldn't be normal in doubles, but she just had nothing in her system and was just, was, was, was basically running on empty. Right. You know, and just you know, a little, a little bit of support maybe in that. Now I, again, if it's not, if it doesn't get passed, then obviously you don't do it. But I just, it's just one of those things where it still feels like we're, we are dealing with these situations where the, there is this specialist treatment. I understand specialist treatment on practice court timings and you know, things like that, because I understand that these, these guys have got all the big media that they've got to do. But when it, when it comes to medical treatment or the sinner Spazziri match, I was led to believe that that match was called five to 10 minutes before the outside courts were called, which is with the heat. With the heat. When it goes to number five, then it's an objective thing that all of the matches are called. My understanding, and I might be wrong on this, but what I was told is that the sinners match was called five or 10 minutes before the outside courts. And again that's, that's this kind of uneven treatment I think that obviously the players seem to struggle with.

B (37:14)

Yeah, I mean, I mean if that's the case, it's a disgrace. Right? So I mean I've always said that, you know, they, they get, there's no hiding it. They do get preferential treatment. There's no hiding it. And, and I'm not saying they don't deserve it but, but don't, don't deny it. You know, just don't deny it. If those, if that, you know, if those are the, the, the kings of the sport and we need to protect them to get them as far in the sport as possible, then, then fine. But if, if you make a rule, you make a rule and when you, when you make that rule, you, you call it, no matter what call, you're on your call. At the same time, if, if what you're saying allegedly is what you're saying.

A (37:50)

So, and, and Fred, the, the next, the next crop, obviously we, we, we, we talked about them lots and there's a couple that I'd like to mention. Ben Shelton, you know, one that I certainly believe is, is a one. I love what Ben does. I love, he's, we talked about the UMB match, you know, that was going to be a tricky potential first round tie. Took care of it and he took care of it with, with a real kind of assertiveness in his game. But ultimately his last four exits from. From majors have come against Alcarazzo Sinna without winning a set. He doesn't seem like he's getting any closer. And the one that I want you to start and give your thoughts on was, was the match. So Alex D. Manua, who. I was so impressed with him during Australian Open. I really feel like he'd taken it up a little notch. I loved the way he was talking. You know, he was talking with confidence, assertiveness, and he put in, I thought, was what was one of the best sets of tennis that I've. That I saw throughout the Open was against Carlos Alcaraz. But he ultimately still got played his best possible tennis, still lost the set 7, 5. And he's now lost in all four of the last slams quarterfinals. And he's on 6 against Alcaraz and he's on 13 against Sinner. That is. Can't make any dent on these guys.

C (39:11)

He's a great player, but like you say, he's, he's just one of the best of the second ones. And he, he's gonna beat a lot of the guys that he's supposed to beat, but he just lacks a little bit of quality to, to threaten those guys. And I find it also, I found it really interesting the way Carlos was talking about him after the match, basically saying how they, they always, always. Yeah, it was weird. It was very weird. Like, yeah, we see these patterns and we were quite confident, like, okay, okay, but, but, but I mean, obviously he lacks a little bit of ability to just win a point quickly. He, he works his points, he grinds down his opponents. He, he doesn't just consistently step up and take three points on the serve. His forehand is a little bit old school in the sense. He needs a little bit. Bit of pace to work with. He's got his more of a setup forehand to move forward and, and I feel like you can kind of see that sometimes and that, that he knows that he, he can't play his usual counter attacking quite solid, and then he starts going for a little bit too much at a, At a strange time. And he's just. I think that he, he might have a run when the, when, when it was one point, the draw opens up for him and stuff like that. But, but a lot of other guys, if they hit their day, they just have more ability than him. From a purely tennis point of view, and to a certain degree, the tenacity he has, the movement, the ability to win matches, can't really Compete with sheer tennis quality. You know what I mean? And I think it's a little bit the same with Shelton here. Obviously, he has a little more easy power, but. But he also needs the big ones to kind of go his way so that he doesn't have to beat them as it looks right now. Very impressed by him, but it just feels like they both lack a little bit of that final quality that will really threaten Sina and Alcaraz. But if something were to happen, one of them has a shotgun, loses a match early, the other one is injured, and the draw opens up. I think they have as good a run as many of the other guys to.

B (41:24)

To be honest, Shelton has lost 22 sets in a row to Sinner.

C (41:28)

Yeah, exactly. And. And then. But. But you.

B (41:31)

But if you watch it. But if you want. If you watch him play, he just seems to be. He seems to go for too much. He's forcing himself to overplay. Yeah, he's over playing. Yeah, yeah.

C (41:42)

But he gets to the match against Sinna a lot, though.

B (41:45)

Yeah, he gets to that match. And then he must just. 22. 22. He must just thinking. 22.

C (41:51)

Yeah. Hey, it's tough. What are you gonna say? It's this pokey player, but he's still young.

A (41:57)

There was an interaction in Cincinnati last year that I had the pleasure of seeing, and it was between Ben's dad, Brian, and the coach of Sinners. Coach. Yeah. And Ben had just won the week before in Toronto.

B (42:17)

That's right.

C (42:17)

Canada.

A (42:19)

Yeah. And. And he came up to. To Brian. I was actually speaking to Brian at the time when he came up, and he said, hey, massive congrats. Amazing. You know, and Brian kind of in his very humble manner said, yeah, but it's not. Not the ones that you guys are winning, you know, like, and big congrats of Wimbledon. And, you know, there was kind of a really nice interaction and he. And he turned around to Brian. He said, look, if you. If you look back, it wasn't so long ago that. That Yannick was struggling to win those. Those events. You know, stick at it. Ben. Ben's on the right path. And I thought it was. It was a really nice little interaction, you know, but it does feel that there's. There's quite a big distance. But I. I just want to bring it quickly back to Demono because it's something that. It's more of a. Maybe a bit of a coaching message really, if there's. If there's players listening to. But it probably like my big. One of my big takeaways or one of my big. We have confirmation bias when we start thinking of something. And unconditional effort is something that I, I'm big on. But it's like Alex D. Manure. That's the biggest thing I love about him. He. He's. I think he's one of the only players on tour. There's also Marcello Aravello on the doubles tour who has this. And I, I was lucky to sit in his box box because he was playing mixed doubles with Louisa, where it is completely unconditional. And so many of the players, even that I'm watching an Australian Open, there is a condition to their attitude. There is a condition to their effort. There is a condition to what they're doing. You know, and then you go down to the juniors and it's in. It is so conditional. I, I do this when I'm playing well. I do this when the score's going right. I do this when I feel 100. And I just think Alex D. Manua is absolutely a player that we should be singing about from the rooftops because he is just the ultimate that I, that I'm seeing on the, on the singles tour right now in terms of, in terms of what he is bringing to every single day. And, and, and he's, there's going to be no stone unturned. You know, he's gonna, he's gonna keep work and he's going to keep working. And I would absolutely love it if one of those draws opened one day and we could see Alex D. Manua lifting, lifting one of those big trophies.

B (44:38)

Yeah, I mean, I, I totally agree with you. I mean, I, I use A, E. Unconditional attitude and unconditional effort. And what I mean by that is attitude positive at all times and effort should be no less than 100. And if you have a player in any, in any sport that, that gives you. That you can't ask any questions of him or her that, you know, they may not have executed the plan, but, but if they've, if they execute that A E, then as a coach, what can you do? There's nothing more you can do. Yeah. And I, I think Sinners. Sinner's first master series was, Was in Canada and he beat Diminow on the final four and one. I think that was the first one that he ever won. It's just ironic. But. Yeah, look, it's unfortunate because I think there, there is a gap in general. I think the gap is very big between Sinner and Alcaraz and, and the rest. But There are days when you, you know, you play, you play, you play good, you can get close to them. I mean, look, look at Zarif as an example, but, and, and Novak, you know, Novak had his day in the sun in the semi, but I think as a general rule, they, they're just, they, they are just better than everybody else. And everybody else needs to look at why they better and what they need to do to, to get to, to bridge that gap. And they're just having that dominance like, you know, the previous generation had before when players, and you know, they're going up and they're already a setting to break up before, you know, before they've even served. You know, people can't just don't believe they're going to win.

A (46:11)

There's a little anecdote on, on the unconditional efforts or with, with Aravelo. So before the event, not many people knew about this, but obviously we saw the one point slam, which I think everyone loved. You know, that was a big hit. But they also had a mixed double showdown, which wasn't highly advertised, but it was, you know, 30, 000 US Aussie dollars for the winning team. And there was only six teams that got in. So Aravello was playing with Louisa Stefani, Gabby's, Gabby's partner, and they had to Dr. It was 10 minute matches and they had to draw their last match to make it through to the final. And there were 136 up with 10 seconds to go. And Piers, John Piers is serving against Arevello. Well, majority of tennis players would play that point, but they, they've won, right? They're seven points ahead. They can't win seven or eight points against them in 10 seconds. So Pierce hits us, this kind of sliding serve down the tee. Now Ravello kind of stretches for this forehand, like full grub, fully locked in. Like it was like your last point he's ever gonna play. He makes it and then Gidecki, it's at the net and knocks the volley past Louisa. But Arabella keeps on running and he keeps on running and he's like, dives for this ball and he misses the forehead, gets to it, misses the forehand in the net. And I looked at him and he's, he's like, he's annoyed that he's missed. You know, he's so in that. He's in that moment. And then the umpire was like, time 13 7, Stefania Arevello. And then he walked up and he shook hands and for me it was like, that was it. That Was. That was the moment that you just do not see in our sport. It did not matter to him that it was a mixed double showdown. He was on a court, so he was going to give his absolute best. So. So as they. So he became my hero, basically. Basically, I've coached against Arabella, but being like on his side. So in their first round, I'm sat in the box and I've. I'm like, I want to get one of these vamosas that he gives to his box. You know, I really. I need to feel this. You know, he like to. So. So every point, I'm like, vamos, Marcelo. Vamos, vamos. Any first four games, he didn't look at me once, and I'm like, geez, right? I need to change my tact here. So I started calling them cello go. I'm gonna go with what most people call them. So then I'm like, come on, two games. Doesn't look at me. And then they go, five, two up. And he turns at me, looks me in the eyes, and he just gets his fist and he goes the top of his voice. And I was. I was made up. You know, I was completely made up. And then the rest, the rest of the tournament, we were. We were going after how many we could get. We were getting 20, 25 in a match. He was. He was fist pumping, he was chest roaring. And it was. It was. It was a nice. It was nice to just feel that sort of energy from. From a player. But anyone that wants to know what unconditional effort looks like. Alex D. Manua, Marcelo Aravello, you know, go and watch them and, and model yourself on. On those guys. They deserve every bit of success that comes.

C (49:23)

Arevalo is fantastic. We played him in Davis Cup a few years ago in El Salvador, and he put himself in the hospital, just absolutely destroying himself. And he played. So he played singles on the first day. The next day, he started off doubles, three sets. Then he played the singles. He was down and out, and he won in three sets. It was very humid, very warm, and he was destroyed after the match. I mean, destroyed. And he still wanted to come out and support his guy at 2 all, you know, so they put him on a plastic bee, like, garden chair, and four people carried him out so that he could come out and support his guy. And after a few minutes, he had to give in. He's like, I. I can't do this. And he was. I mean, the poor guy the rest of the day, but that's. I know exactly what you mean. Fantastic guy you want to go to

A (50:13)

war with, that's for sure.

C (50:14)

Absolutely. But we, we were just like, okay. He. Yeah, this guy was, yeah.

A (50:20)

Amazing. And as we, before we move into this, into the women's event, Vozy, we're talking about Aro and, and the doubles. And obviously on, on the men's side, we have another British winner. Seems like it happens pretty much every event. You know, Neil, Neil Skopski now moved up to world number one, Christian Harrison. You know, a new partnership this year. I must admit that was a partnership I saw and thought, poor. They're going to be really dangerous. I think they were the best team throughout the event. And now as of today, I believe it's Neil Skopski. One, Lloyd Glasspool two, Julian Cash. Three. The Brits just continue to, to smash and, and completely dominate men's doubles. Fozzie.

B (51:00)

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's obviously great, great for, for British tennis. It's great for the lta and you know, the support staff that they use at the lta, probably more the unsung heroes outside of Louis Kaya, the people we don't hear of. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's great. It's. It's a shame for Joe Salisbury.

A (51:19)

Yeah.

B (51:19)

So, you know, for every action there's a reaction. Right. So it's going to be interesting to see what he does when, when he picks up a racket and starts playing and who he can hustle. But I very doubt that new Neil will. Will be available options.

A (51:33)

But not Neil, I don't think. Won't be an option.

B (51:36)

No. I'd say that ship's left. Left and sailing pretty well. Yeah, but a bit on the whole, it's. Yeah, it's great.

A (51:43)

And a shout out to Luke Johnson as well. Freddie and obviously we talked about on our group and obviously Calvin as well, who's normally on. On the show as well. What a great job he's done with Henry and, and Luke. But Luke Johnson is just honestly incredible. I mean, I remember Evan Hoyt when I was coaching Evan hoyt, that was 2017. They got a wild card into, into Wimbledon and Luke was way off the level. That was in 2017. And someone who was. What an amazing story. Someone we're going to get on the podcast to tell that story because again, that is the sort of story we need out there. You know, people need to know that there's, there's always a chance and you know, he's playing phenomenal tennis. A semi, semi final in Australian Open. Put himself in a in a winning position in the third set. But a massive. I don't know how much you've seen of Luke Freddy, but an incredible story and something that seems to. Someone seems to keep getting better and better as well.

C (52:43)

Absolutely great guy. Fantastic attitude. I had the same impression you had. I played him twice or at least twice in 2018, and I did not see this coming. I got to be honest with you. I got to be honest with you. But he stuck to it. Worked well. Also, credit to Cal. He's a, He's a fantastic coach. You can't argue that. And these, these guys, they just have solid hits on their shoulders. They work very well. They buy into the system. Obviously, you can really, I think in, in doubles more than singles, you can surrender a bit to a system and a way of playing where there's. There's a little less room for tactical flexibility or, or. Or natural skill as there is in singles. So you can, if, if you really boggle down and you buy into it and, and you focus on executing it, you're going to get results. And I think that's one of the things the Brits have really bought into. They really. They. They buy the scouting, they buy the, the tactical. They. They buy all the, the fundamentals that especially Louis has been a big proponent of. And you can just see it and, and I think if you're looking to, to have scouting reports or, or. Or see what's going on, you would, you would go to Brits because they know, understand completely what's going on. I think they're very also on the forefront of how the game develops and, and how, how it can be played. Louis always been big on changing essential. Oh, now this is kind of what we're focused on now. This and this and that. And you can see Luke, he's not maybe the, The. The. That's also one of the things that there's room for Both. Both. I would say Luke and Neil are both not your typical British doubles players in the sense that they maybe play a little bit more from the back, they're a little more flary, but still there's room for it. And, and, and yeah, within the principles.

A (54:27)

They're still within the principle principles.

C (54:28)

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But there's, there's ways to, to implement those principles and I like it. And they're. They're great guys. They're great representatives of, of their, of their country and, and where they're from in the region and, and they and their families because they're great guys and easy to root for.

A (54:46)

Yeah, Amen to that. And, and Vozi Rabakana Rebakana is, is the one. I wouldn't say that we didn't, didn't

C (54:54)

discuss it or you think she stopped celebrating by now? Will somebody just tell her to calm down? Yeah, exactly.

A (55:04)

She's, she's now had 10 consecutive wins against top 10 opponents. You know, like she's obviously WCA Finals winner. There's, there's an argument that I know she's moved up to world number three, but there's a, there's a pretty strong argument that she's almost becoming the, the one to be gone gone into the rest of 2026.

B (55:28)

Yeah, I'll definitely say that. I think, you know, started at the back end of last year. At the end of your finals. I had her or Anna Samova as, as the one to win. I chose Ana Samova. But I, I think I've always said that if she's healthy and, and she's, she's on point, she's, she is the best player in the world because she's got the firepower, she's got the big serve, she's tough to play and I stand by that. But the physical issues are, are and I hope she's fine. I hope she's okay with all of that. And you know, it's, she's back with her coach. Well, she was never gone but he's now okay to go back on the tour and they, they're back back winning. So you know, well, well done to her. Well done to her team. Yeah. And I'd probably say she, she was the best. She was the best player of that in that event and deserved to win. Of course she was because she won it. But, but just in terms of, there was no luck along the way.

A (56:21)

There seems to be a lot of technical work that happens, Freddy, which again we kind of get told, we, we get get told these different stories, right? If you haven't got your technique by the time that you're 12 or 13, you and you know, but we did, but the before matches or even in matches, you and I, I like that we can hear coaches talking, but there seems to be a lot of kind of quite basic technical work that's done but very detailed but basic work done in the pre match. But also there seems to be a lot of technical cues on the court. Is that, is that something that actually just helps some people? And maybe first for too long, we've, we've kind of gone down this road of saying you shouldn't ever be Focusing on technique. It should all be about, you know, tactical or, or just playing, playing the game. What's your take on that?

C (57:15)

I think it's very individual, situational based, what the situation calls for 100%. There's a room, time and space for it if it's needed. I mean, if you have a tactical plan, but your technique doesn't allow for that, you gotta adjust the technique so that the tactical plan can come to fruition. And it is true that even at the top level, people tweak all the time. There was a story, this is Australian Open, about how Carlos's serve looks like Novak. Now that doesn't just happen that he doesn't smoke up. He, he tried to implement something in the serve. We've known, seen how Sinner has changed his serve. We saw how Rafa was changing a lot throughout his career.

A (57:55)

Even another change, his backhand last year.

C (57:57)

Exactly. Even in other sports, we have like Tiger woods changing his swing after winning multiple majors. I think this is a, is the mind frame of a champion dude. They always have this attitude of, of, of improving to, to maintain their quality. And I think it's, it's natural. So in the heat of the moment in the match, it obviously depends on what, what the coach is seeing, what's important, what's playing out is, is the technique sound. Do we need some tactics? I would always say rule of thumb. I mean, don't, don't, don't work too, too much on the, on the, on the technique. But sometimes you gotta buckle down and get something right. Like you said that the. Carlos shortened his swing. If you want to implement a tactic and he's just taking two big cuts in the swing, you got to get that right before you, you implement something else. Because otherwise he won't have the ability to do that. So I think that's where the, the, the quality of the, of the coaching and the eye of the coaching and the understanding of the player comes in as to what can you say to this particular player in this particular moment. And that's where it's, you know, it's. It that's difficult. That's where you, you earn your money, right. As a coach, where you, you know, like, maybe you've coached several players. You can't say the same thing to all the players and have the same outcome. I know that with all my players here, the, in the Danish federation, like a lot of them are as different, as different as possible. And there's not even a chance that I can go even ballpark and say the same things and get get the same results. So. So yeah, I think that's what, that's the beauty of the sport sometimes as well.

A (59:31)

And on technique. Fozzie Emma Radicanu I was actually working for BBC. I was doing a did a few shifts for 5 live on the day that she lost but not only the day that she lost, the day that she kind of threw her coach under under in the press conference, you know one from a, one from a technical standpoint, you know and I was asked that question on on air, you know, about the forehand swings got much bigger. She basically said she didn't like it you know, in the press conference after her loss and she also said she didn't like the way that she's been told to play. You know, it wasn't a surprise that then that relationship ended in the next few a few days after. What's your take on the, the Emiratakano situation? Situation?

B (60:19)

My take on it is, is obviously Francesca Roy just a, was Nadal's right hand man for a long period of time. Any technical stuff that Nadal wanted he would turn to him. I I know him a little bit so I, I also think it's the patience of of and I'm not just talking of Emma but the patience of of a player in terms of buy in in terms of this is not going to happen overnight but you know, if you where you where, where your game is going to be and you know, two years time or years time, these are the changes that need to be made in order for you to make that jump. You know, Emma just wants to swing from the hip and hope for the best. So I don't agree with the sacking but then, but then I don't, I don't know enough about it from, from behind the scenes. But but based on on just on, on face value of what she said, it, it appears to me that a bad workman blames his tools rather than just going, you know, I'm working with basically catalogs for short. She lost the match and then said she's not buying into it.

A (61:18)

It.

B (61:19)

That's basically what's happened. But before the match she was buying into it or before, you know, whilst she was with, with this process with Francesca she was buying into it. She, she had, she had two, three months off at the end of last year to buy into his ethos and so if he was, if she wasn't buying into it then, then you finish it there and then and say no, no, I don't see my game that Way I see my game like this, you know, but. But I've had. You've hired a, you hire a coach for one reason, one reason only to make you better, to improve your game. And you hired the best coaches for, for that, for that reason. So I, Yeah, I just, I mean, I think it's a poison chalice working with Emma, you know, she's. She's very young girl and she's had 10 coaches in her career already or looking for her 10th coach in her career. It's just. It's just ridiculous. But you know, she can always. At least she, at least she has the backing. I saw Louis. Kaya was on court with her last week at the, at the ntc. So she's got backing of the LTA stuff, support as and when she needs it, you know, so she can always, she can always jump back in and, and get the help as and when.

A (62:23)

Well, I, I experienced my first trolls. They call them trolls when you start getting a bit of abuse online.

C (62:31)

Yeah, yeah, because your comments made the, made the papers. I saw.

A (62:35)

So my comments seem to get into lots of places and obviously they take little tidbits that you, that you say that, that are. That are put out. You know, they did in fairness to. They put it out in a, in a podcast as well, where, where hopefully the context came through. But. But I was getting. I was getting a little bit of abuse online, but. Which is, which is completely fine. But it's. The point I was really trying to make is see this whole thing about the best coach or the good coach or who it's. It. The best coach for any given person at any given time is different. Right. You know, and it's. However, the point I was making on Emma, it feels to me like, like she doesn't know herself well enough to know what that is because she's not being given the space to be able to do that. You know, I don't know the ins and outs of why, you know, whether that's parental or agent. So I, I don't know what it is, but I do know from the outside, the two coaches she's probably had the most success with was one Andrew Richardson, who, Who she. Who she had a connection with, which for me it's. Everything is about connection. Right. And it's, you know, connection. Connection is a person. Connection is a purpose. Connection is as an identity connection of how you like to work, how you like to express yourself. And, you know, she was obviously able to express herself under Andrew, maybe from the relationship she had as a junior and then the other one is Mark Pechy who she's had some success with Petch and I think that is also a long term relationship where she maybe feels comfortable. And I know there is a strong connection. Like Petch is a little bit of her kind of tennis father, you know, who, who she, who she looks up to. But it's, it seemed I, what I was actually saying is I, I was being asked the question about a forehand and I was being asked the question about what she should do coach wise. And, and I actually made the point. I don't know if people agree with this or what you guys think, but I said I actually think maybe not having a coach for a little while wouldn't be the worst thing actually for her, you know, to, to, to actually just. I know she's traveling with Alexis Kanter. I would imagine that's more of a hidden partner situation, you know, this, this week. But, but something along those lines for a little while. Make your mistakes. And I was trying to connect it to like let's say Alcaraz. We've seen Alcaraz grow up, but Alcaraz is very comfortable in his own skin and Alcaraz has made some errors. We saw it last summer. You know, Alcaraz had like, you know, there was Cincinnati breaking the rackets. He wasn't really talking to his team at US Open that year when he lost to Vander's Anlop. He was maybe going out a bit too much. He was maybe getting that wrong. But, but you've kind of got to do that when you're young to maybe understand yourself. And it just feels to me that Emma Rano hasn't had the space to actually be able to, to make those mistakes and understand herself. Because then once you understand yourself then you can put team in place for you. But if you don't understand yourself. And then the other example I use is then at Arena Sabalenka, you know, do you ever heard of Arena Sabalenka's coach before she started working with him? You know, like. But, but Sabalenka knows herself very well and then she's then being able to build the team around her because she's very comfortable in her skin and, and yeah, it feels to me like still Emma, Emma's got a long way to go. But until she, she's all, I think looking for a coach to solve the issue is not the right way about it. I think she needs to solve some of her issues and problems and understand herself and grow.

B (66:23)

Yeah, but what, what are Issues and

A (66:25)

problems, I don't know. But, but what I do, but, but if you, what it, what it does seem very clear is this. If you're still changing in quite a dramatic way the type of tennis you're trying to play, you know, how does Emma Radicon want to play tennis? How does she want to express herself on, on the tennis court? That, that needs to be aligned with the court she's working with. How does Emma Radicon like to learn? How does she like to receive information? How does she like to, you know, that these are things at this stage of a career you'd like to think she knows now she, she should only be aligning herself with coaches that work in that type of way, you know, and Ro, I'm sure, is a fantastic, amazing coach, but is he the right Coach for a 23 year old British girl who, who maybe doesn't know herself so well? That's very different to Raphael Nadal who's, you know, one of the greatest male players of all time and the Spanish mentality and, and I don't know, it just feels there's, there's no, there's no space. She's not going any space in her world and that's, she has to obviously take responsibility for that. And that was the point that I, that I was making. The second point I was making is that she does come across quite soft, you know, and, but that is for a reason. She's, there's obviously a bit of a cry for help somewhere. Something's not quite right. You know, there's a lot of validation, excuses and things like that. We could probably copy and paste that conversation into lots of tennis players. Right. It's not just probably Emiratakano that's dealing with those, with those issues, but also

C (68:00)

as an extension to that, she, professionally, she should also be aware of the fact that, okay, she's an attractive job from a coach and she'll probably always be that to a lot of coaches. But the more this continues, some coaches will just not even want to give it a go because they'll be saying, well, why would I want to do this? So it's going to limit the pool of coaches that you can choose from if this keeps going so professionally. She also needs to buckle down and make sure that, that the, the, the coaches that she wants to work with want to work with her because it's been a very popular job and everybody would probably want to have that job, all the, the big coaches in the world. But it's getting to the point where it's getting maybe less and less attractive for coaches and may, may maybe some of the coaches that could be good for her, they don't want to be part of that. So she also has to be mindful of that, in my opinion.

A (68:51)

Is it not the same as that? Like, we all had. There was always that guy at school who all the girls all wanted to have a go, going out, out with that guy because they felt that they'd be the one to change him.

C (69:02)

Yeah.

A (69:03)

You know, and it's like. But actually nobody could change him. He would have to change himself first right before he's then ready to be with the girl, whoever that is. And that's the bit for me that it feels. That's the point I'm trying to make here. It's like, I think it's the wrong way around and I think too many people do this. They. They look for their. They're taking shots in the dark, hoping they're going to just get this coach that's going to come along like the knight and shining armor and everything's going to just be amazing. Whereas a coach's job is not that. A coach's job, in my opinion, is to add. It's not to create. It's to.

C (69:43)

No. And to. To go even further than that. Coaching is overrated.

A (69:47)

Yeah, for sure.

C (69:48)

Coaching is massively over. I say that as a coach. Coaching is overrated. But, but that you can't, you can't work with players that don't want to be worked with or you can't move players that don't want to be moved. I mean, it's all about, like you say, add to what the player brings to the table. Like if you, if you, if you go out and like you say, if Emma Raducano plays without a coach, he'll probably do all right. But it's, it's, it's. The coach is there to help with those small things. And it has to come. It has to come from the player. It has to come from the player. Coach. A coach can only do so much, but if a coach is not allowed to coach, you can't do anything. And that's why I think it's very important to remember that coaching is overrated

A (70:31)

or it's overrated in terms of being magic. I think it's sometimes underrated and understated when done well with the right player at the right time. And then you. And an example I would actually give Andrew Bettles with Svitolina. You know, we saw Svitolina beating Coco Golf, you know, Svitolina and, and a big shout out to Svitolina and also benchic. Now there's two, two mums in the top 10 in the world as of today. Which is, which is, which is incredible. But Andrew Bettles, you would look from

C (71:07)

the outside also not far off top 10. Sorry.

A (71:10)

Yeah, but you go young, young British guy maybe going in and hitting some balls with her. But actually they've got a lovely relationship and he is adding to her tennis experience. He's fully aware that she would probably be 15 in the world without him, but he's helped speed up that process a little bit or just add some of those missing bits to just maybe get her up another two, three, four spots. And I think that's the kind of, of, that's the natural connection, player, coach, relationship that, that I love seeing. You know, I don't like seeing this like someone appoints someone and, and I often ask that question on the podcast as well. How did you appoint that person? And they're like, oh, well, my agent said that they were quite good and I gave them a three month contract to trial. And it's like, what? Like, no, they should, that should be like a massive job in my opinion, to be finding the right person to connect with. That is going to.

C (72:09)

Have you, have you ever heard of a tennis coach giving a job interview? Well, it's crazy, but it's very important for me to point out. I said overrated. I didn't say unimportant. I just said. I just mean that it's, it's overrated. It's certainly important, but it's, it's not like you say, you can't just put in a new coach and then all of a sudden you can't, you can't just take Carlos's coach and then you get Carlos's results. You know, you can just put Juan Carlos Ferrero to some other player in the top 10 and then you're gonna see. Here we go.

A (72:41)

The room is out. Vozi, have you seen the rumor the last couple of days?

B (72:45)

What's that?

A (72:45)

Juan Carlos Herrero in negotiations with Sinner to be a part of Yannick Sinner's team.

C (72:52)

Well, I heard today somebody in our team said that he was coaching a golfer.

B (72:56)

Yeah, the mental. On the mental side.

C (72:58)

Exactly, exactly. So I hadn't seen that. That was pretty weird in terms.

A (73:04)

So that last, last couple of little points I want to make little topics. IGA Xiontek is not liking the amount of cameras at the Grand Slams, especially at the Australian Open. We're like animals in a zoo is what she said. Coco cough, bless her. And I don't think it's a big deal really, but Coco Goth was kind of walking along the corridors looking up, where's the cat? Was like someone who was about to rob a bank looking up, is the camera on me? And. And tried to hide behind. Behind somewhere where she thought there wasn't a camera just to then absolutely demolish her racket. As we all watched it live on tv, which is kind of a bit of a strange one that they have at Australian Open that you're kind of watching live backstage. What. What do we do that. Is it talked about? Do we just need.

B (73:57)

I don't think it's right. I don't think it's right. I think, I think there's times like we. It happened with Zabalenka a few years ago at the U S. Open when she, she. Yeah, and she did it, she did it in that. In where the, where the racket stringer is. I think there's, there's certain areas that need to remain private and, and not be heir to the world in terms of like, you know, if they're breaking down, showing emotion, whether that's crying, whether that's, you know, smashing rackets, I, I don't, I don't agree that that needs to go out. And I don't know what the consent is of, of the players. You know, what can. Can. Can Taunos just put cameras everywhere without the consent? I mean, I'm sure they draw the line of putting them in, in. In the locker rooms for obvious reasons, but I think that needs to be. Well, this is where the ptpa, if they're a strong voice, should really be. You know, these are the things that they pretty much stand up for. Those are the things that when they put in their. In. In the bargaining agreement at tournaments, certain things that criteria or whatever that, that collector bargain agreement that need need to be remain private. I don't, I don't agree with it.

A (75:02)

Wrong with what's wrong. And where does it. Where does the sport lose out or where does the player lose out that we've seen correct. Or golf smash a racket? Does anyone.

B (75:11)

Because she may not want the world to see it and, and she's done it. She's done it in. In pure emotion and, and she's done it because she's upset that she's lost and she's, she wants it to remain private. I mean it's, it's no different. Like, you know, I mean, Tim, Tim against Richard Krychek at, at the US Open last went in the locker room and, and smashed glass. A full full from roof to, to bottom glass mirror. And you know, I walk in and he's lost a match and he's sweeping it up, but at least the cameras didn't see it.

A (75:43)

I maybe would like Tim hemmed and more as a player if that was the case, like, because he's more human. Like, like we all fell in love with Andy Murray when he, when he cried.

B (75:53)

Yeah.

A (75:53)

After losing the 2012 Wimbledon final against Roger Federer. And that was, that was the day that everyone went, oh my God, this human, he's human. That vulnerability, like, I think, like, like, yeah, there's different, I love Coco.

B (76:09)

That's the thing. I think that's a completely different analogy. I mean, if, if, if Andy was on my point, if that was on center court and Andy got all eight rackets out and just smashed them and on center court, that, that wouldn't have been a good look. The crowd would have gone, what, you know, what, why are you doing that on center court? But and, and so if you want that quiet moment to mangle rackets and put them in the bin, I don't think the public should see that. There's certain things that the public can see for, for, for forget, you know, the emotion, the crying. And you know, I, I, I'm trying so hard, hard to win. That's completely different. But, but you know, people, people have different opinions on, on racket smashing. And I just, I, I just think it's, it should be that, that's something that should be behind closed, closed doors. That's my opinion.

A (76:51)

We're talking about it.

B (76:53)

Yeah,

C (76:55)

I agree with Vasi. It's, I don't think it's, it's, it's necessary for a tennis tournament. I personally quite like to see what people do in the gym just from a purely, that's perfect.

B (77:05)

Like, like, you know, warm ups, cooldowns, you know, how they warm up. You know, how they're interacting with the team. You know, you, you can, you know, then, you know, like, for example, it was great that, you know, Novak went up to Alcaraz when, you know, when he won, you know, on the bike against Zara, if, and you know, had a chat. There's that, you know, you can see that, you can see those interactions because, you know, like, the, the normal, the normal person doesn't see what goes into the preparation. They just see these people on the court and they don't know, you know, what's happening behind closed doors. So, so getting a little bit of snippet of that, which they are just snippets is for them, it's like, oh, my God, they do this, they do that. You know, this is how they warm up, blah, blah, blah. And, and the players are now starting to do, you know, the day in the life of Yannick or the day in the life of so and so. They're starting to do more and more stuff where they're showing, showing stuff just to give a snippet to the, to the fans.

C (77:53)

But in those situations, you can turn it on and off as you want. You know, I, I was actively thinking about it this time around that, that there are cameras everywhere. First of all, there's so much pressure on a lot of these players. Second of all, there's so much attention and everybody wants the result. So if they have to go around and be actively conscious of what they're doing when they're off the court, it's going to drain, it takes energy, it might sound heavy.

B (78:16)

And they'll stop being themselves.

C (78:17)

Yes, exactly. They'll stop being themselves. It's going to get more boring. It's not going to sell the tennis experience. They're going to sell the Big Brother, the clicks, the sensationalism of it. I don't think it's, it, I, I don't find it funny. I don't find it interesting. I don't think it's, it's nice to see. And I don't think.

A (78:37)

Are you, are you, are you to the, and by the way, I don't necessarily agree with it either, but I am playing devil's advocate because I think, you know, it's important we look at all sides. Are you to the market for that? I don't think you are.

C (78:49)

You're no 100%, you're right.

A (78:51)

But you two are on the inside of the sport. But, but let's say, say, let's say someone who's flicking through the channels and, you know, someone who's got options of watching different things and, you know, that type of story might, might attract them a bit more to the sport. It might open up. I don't know. Okay, Coco Golf, let me go and look a little bit of coke. Golf's Instagram. Let me do this. Maybe it leads. I, I don't know. I, I, I, I, like I'm playing devil's advocate on that.

C (79:19)

But that, I think you're right, I think you're right and it will attract somebody and it's with the going with the time. But my point of it is, you can be above that. I mean, you're not trying. Tennis is doing great without it. I mean, you don't need that. You don't need to sensationalize it. You don't need those extra YouTube clips and all this. You can sell a different product and if shit hits the fan and tennis is starting to struggle, we can have a conversation about it. But it's not struggling right now. I mean, I'm sure that it was the most visited Australian Open of all time. I didn't see the figures. I'm sure there's enough figures on tv, there's enough traction, there's enough social media content with what's happening on court. I mean, and then it's up to people themselves to create a narrative that does create something like that. For example, Osaka's entrance I thought was ridiculous, but then she can control the narrative and it creates a story, but it has to. And these video blocks or vlogs, whatever Vasi is talking about, it's something that they can control. They need to be able to have a moment where they have to worry about what's going on here, what's going on there. What if people see me in this and that way. I think it's too much. It's too much, Big Brother. I mean, it's a sporting event and I think if you keep it at the sports, like I said, let's see what's going on in the gym. That's quite interesting. How do people work? Work, whatever. But, but the other stuff, it's too much. I think it's too much.

B (80:53)

I agree.

A (80:54)

I don't disagree.

C (80:55)

Yeah, good. I also don't disagree with you that there's a. There's a market for people that want to see this. But you can, you can, obviously you can control the narrative yourself by sending by. By patrolling what you want to send out.

B (81:07)

Yeah, but the bottom line is tv. TV dictates everything. And if, if they, if, if that's what they want, that's what they get. I'm afraid they pay the big. They pay the big money. And the players don't have a side.

C (81:17)

Yeah, exactly. But the tournaments can. They can say, but we're going to draw the line here. We want some privacy with the players.

B (81:22)

Yeah.

A (81:23)

Last couple of shout outs, because it's important. Elisa Merton and Shang, the winner of the women's doubles big, well done to them. Elisa Merton also moves up to world number one. I believe that's a sixth or seventh major with Four or five different partners. Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic doubles player. We also had John Pierce and Livia gi winning their second mixed doubles in a row. You know, 2025 and 2026. Hell of an effort for the Aussies. On the wheelchair tennis we didn't quite have. The Brits didn't come to show so much this year. But the Rafa of the wheelchair tennis Taquito Order won, won the singles crown. He's, he's the age 19. He's the young, youngest man that can currently hold all four Grand Slams titles across any format of professional tennis at age 19. Credit if anyone gets a chance to watch him. And then in the women's wheelchair tennis, Lee celebrated maiden Grand Slam title to defeating the Groot in the final as well. And before I let you guys go, 2026 has obviously started with a bang. We talked about a little bit earlier, 12 days where I was thinking we were going to be talking about the three love sets, the two love sets, you know we kind of had a record breaking, I remember, I think was French Open last year or the year before. We had a record breaking five set matches that happened that wasn't happening at all. But luckily the, the tournament very much came alive on the singles court. I think doubles matches were fantastic throughout but on the, on the singles court it came alive on semi finals and finals weekend and it wet our appetite going into the resting of 2026. Give us a little storyline to look out for over, over the next few months before we come together. Getting ready for Roland Garros preview in in May.

C (83:20)

Guys, I think what's going to happen outside the court we have some. Carlos, is he going to stick with his current coach? I don't think he's confirmed him to be the permanent coach yet as of now. I think he's, he's makeshift. What's going to happen with some other key coaching decisions and can Nova keep up this disruption of the top two? I think that's the what, what to look for on the men's side and yeah on the women's side I think it's, it's very open. There's a lot of storylines to be won. I think the biggest one we're talking about now everybody's talking about is if. But more, more clearly when is Serena gonna come back? Because you don't enter the anti doping system unless you intend to play. Nobody in their right mind would do that just because. Oh maybe or what. That is a pain.

B (84:13)

So Sereno, I think, I think will, I think will either come back on the grass or through the US Open swing. I think, I think, yeah, that, that would be my call.

A (84:24)

That would be a story.

B (84:25)

And then obviously we didn't talk about Serrano Christia's handshake with Naomi Osaka in the second round. Yeah, that was a, it's not just

A (84:35)

week to week with some of, some of these players.

B (84:38)

Yeah, a little icy. I think Jack Draper comeback could be a sensational story. You know, hoping he's playing this week in Oslo Davis cup and I think he will have a very good grass court season. He hasn't gone past round two at Wimbledon's yet. So I think this is the year where he'll make the breakthrough. I hear he's doing some really good stuff with Jamie Delgado and his team. So I think that will be a good story. But not, not for, not, not till later in the year. I think Ben Shelton could, could be one that comes through. I think you'll learn a lot from, from this, this Australian trip in terms of what he's doing right, what he's doing wrong. And I think if he just plays within himself, he, he, he, he probably will get closer to these players than, than he actually thinks. He's definitely got the firepower to do so. So he's just got to play with a little bit more maturity. And I think Diminar just needs a whole world, world of luck. Otherwise he's always going to be that one who, who's in, in, in a top eight finisher which is, which is still good. But he's a good guy. He's got a good team. But yeah, there's a difference between him and the rest.

A (85:49)

Well, I've got three quick ones to finish us off. One, one. I think we're going to have the most consecutive Slams won by the same two players overtaking Rafa and Roger at the end of this year. I think we will see Alcaraz and Sinner move that to 12 by the end of this year and have a new record I think finally on controller controllables. At some point on one of these, on one of these panels we're going to get some, we're gonna get some, some decisions. Right. You know, we're actually gonna, we're gonna showcase a little bit of knowledge. We didn't mention that and Boko was a pretty good shout and also Yovich so we, we have some credit. But yeah, we're gonna maybe get a few more things right as the air goes on. And I think for me the women's tour, I think it's going to be very much condition related because I think what we have is we have three big tall, long levered ball strikers in Sabalenka, Rubakana and Anisimov against the movers of Srionetek, Coco Goff and Mira Andreeva. And I think that's going to be the storylines that we're going to see. Depending on court surface, court condition. Indian Wells obviously maybe favors the movers a little bit more. The clear court might favor the movers a little bit more. Whereas our quicker surfaces and the hard courts I think are going to favor those long levered, big, big, big hitters. So I think that's, that's going to be interesting. You know, I actually saw an interview with Emma Radicano today and, and she was, was in Romania and she was asked the question, if you could ask Simona Halep one question, what would it be? And she said, I'd like to ask Simona Halep how, how did you deal with the big ball strikers being someone who was a little bit smaller and couldn't probably live with that kind of, kind of strike? And I think these are some of the, the problems that a lot of the women out there have got to solve with the, with the women that are at the top of the game right now because they just, they're just out hitting people in certain conditions. But I think we've got lots of, lots of excitement to come. I thank you both again for giving your time up. You know, it's, it's, it really, really is appreciated and you almost come across that you got a little bit of intelligence at times. A big, big thank you to you both and, and Freddie, all the best with the Davis cup tie with Croatia this week as well.

C (88:10)

Thank you.

B (88:10)

Thanks guys. Pretty good luck, mate.

C (88:12)

Thanks Wazi. Have a good one.

A (88:14)

And there we have it, guys. Another Grand Slam panel over some of my absolute favorite podcasts to record just to talk tennis like minded people and hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did having, having that conversation with Kieran and Freddie once again, I, I don't ever want to take for granted the time that these guys give up to come and share their knowledge, their insights. And if you want to get any messages to the panel as well, please do send them through. You will see in the show notes the way that you can get in touch with us. Please do get in touch and let us know what you want to hear from us in 2026. I think we ended up with an amazing major. So many talking points and so many storylines that continue developing our incredible sport. I will be back in the next week or two with some with some brilliant guests. I mentioned Adam Jones, who has been the hitting partner for Carlos Alcaraz and also for Rebakana throughout the fortnight. Anyone that has been following Adam Jones on Instagram, four hands and flat whites. We're going to have a funny conversation, but also an emotional conversation with with Adam and many more people that are looking, we're looking to bring on over the next few weeks. So look out for that. But until next time, I'm Dan Keanan and we are control the controllables.