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Control the Controllables
Day 8 Wimbledon Recap w/ 1995 Wimbledon Boys' Doubles Champion, Martin Lee
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A
Foreign. Welcome to day eight of control and controllables live from Wimbledon. And today once again brought to you by Novellas. And we will be going through the major moments of the day brought to you by Soto Tennis Academy our tennis athlete player of the day. And then we have our guest. We our guest was a champion here in 1995 as a junior he was a top hundred player in the world. He retired in in 2006, got as high as 94 in the world. And Martin Lee is our is our guest. I'm looking forward to hearing that story. A winner of the of the junior event is kind of cool, right? So so looking forward to hearing that. But to start with, I guess that the word been saying now for quite a on the back of the football that I stayed up to watch last night is wow, wow, wow wow. And I was saying that all day as I was as I was watching the football in the middle of the night and then I'm now saying it again because the youngster he's done at the Brit has made it to the quarterfinals. Arthur Ferry has beaten Grigor Dimitrov 76 in the fifth set for the second round in a row. Down a break. He was down two breaks of serve in the fourth set the other day against Easy Bergs. Today he was down two sets to one and a break in the fourth set. And he's come back and once again he has he has made his way through this time on center court. The other day it was on court 18. It was wild out there. It was incredible. The hill was going crazy. It just it just brought so much so much to to Wimbledon to have it. And I always think that at all the Grand Slams if you have someone from that nation that's doing well it just it work right. We it keeps the keeps the energy with the crowd and a big big well done to Arthur Ferry and all of his team. And next he plays Flavio Kaboli in the in the quarterfinals in a couple of days time where I know people are saying it and he did beat him in the Australian Open. But I think it's obviously a very different match now. You know, Cabali's just made final in Roland Garros. Going to be going to be an interesting interesting match in in a couple of days time. But that's not for Arthur to worry about right now. He needs to enjoy. He needs to cover. And I think everyone here on the grounds at Wimbledon just needs to just take a bit of a breath after after the last 24 hours as a Sports fan in, in this country. And if I move to the other major moment of, of the day brought to you by Soto Tennis Academy, Taylor Fritz, we've said it for the last few days. The pick, my pick to come through that bottom half of the draw. He's just kind of sneaking through. You know, he started off with what seemed like a terrible draw to be playing Jack Draper in the first round. But that's just kind of, you know, once, once Jack pulled out. It's almost like as he even played Jet Taylor and he's now in the, in the quarterfinals. He won in straight sets over Alexander Bublik today and he, he is, he will next play. It is the winner I think of the Zverev match. Yeah. So he plays the winner of the Zverev match. We know that he's got that crazy record against Vera. Right. As well. So if Verev does get, get past Laheka today, they've just gone on to center court. The, the graveyard shift. Right? They've got a, they've got. They can only play tennis up until 11 o'. Clock. You know, we saw that happen with Coco Golf last night. She was told there was one more game as she was serving at 54 and she managed to serve it out and she celebrated tapping her watch. Well, they have. I was out there because my, my nephew's here. So managed to get him on the court before I ran over here and I looked at the clock and it was like 2 hours 10 minutes. Basically they have to to play this match tonight. So basically unless that's a straight set drubbing, we're going to find that that match is going to be called off on the women's side who was going to be the, the 10th different champion in 10 years. You know, we're not getting repeat champions. We don't have the Roger Federers winning eight years. We don't have Novak Djokovic, we don't have Pete Sampras right now it's kind of changing hands every year which is kind of. Naomi Asaka will play Carolina Mova, Jess Pula against Coco Golf. We know that they played yesterday. But then we have Linda Noskova who beat Madison Keys today reaching the quarterfinals for the first time at the All England Club. Yeah, just nos again. Sneaky good man. Just sneaky. Good results over over the last couple of years. Nova players Merton's Costube also came through to beat qualifier Ashlin Kruger and, and improved to 10 and all the season against players from the little fact for you and Marostu as well. We talked about this around Roland Garros, just that that mindset shift that she's had, you know, talking not so much about winning, you know, talking more about enjoying the experience and having a bit more gratitude to be out there playing. And she certainly seems to be playing incredibly well. She will play against Jaz, against Jasmine Paolini who beat Alexandra Iala 63 in the third set. And I think for Paolini, I think all of us, it's great to see her back to. To of her top tennis. You know, she's had a difficult last few months. Maybe it's coincided a little bit with not playing the doubles and oh her and Sarani pulled out. She's played a little bit less. I think she was a bit burnt out. I've mentioned that on the podcast a little bit over the last few weeks and there she now is back in the quarterfinals. I know she was, she was in the final here a couple of years ago. Obviously plays incredibly well on the grass courts. So. So there we have it. We will have a new champion. Nobody that's. I don't think any of them that have won it and it's a new champion of the 10 out of 10 years we've had it. We've had a different champion on, on the woman's side and Paolini actually the news that I guess coming out of Wimbledon is Roger turned up. You know, Roger turned up and everyone's kind of talking about it in their, in their press conferences but also on the court. And Paolini said stepping onto this court is something special. I was looking forward to it. It's an amazing atmosphere and it's something else to play tennis here. I feel so lucky to have this opportunity and feel lucky to get the win and I want to thank Roger because he's my idol and I did think that about Arthur Ferry as well. And obviously he mentioned. Arthur did mention him as well in his on on court interview. But he's playing against Greek or Dimitrov. The basically plays like Roger Federer and then Roger Federer's in the front row watching and he's British and has got the whole country nation on his shoulders. It's. He's playing in his first fourth round at Wimbledon. He's playing his first time on Centre Court. He's playing all of these things. For him to be able to handle that, I know that he has been our tennis athlete player of the day earlier we didn't give it for the winners easy Bergs even though we probably should have. But I don't think we can have anybody else today. That is our tennis athlete player of the day and that is Arthur Ferry. So a big, big shout out to Arthur and his team on on another, another brilliant, brilliant, brilliant day. An experience no one can ever take from him. On the DOU are moving into the quarterfinal stages in the men's doubles. We had, you know, yesterday we know that Harry Helar and Henry Patton won a big match. There's been a lot of close matches. Arabello Pavic beat Julian Roger and Theo Winiger in three sets. Julian Cash like Glasspool last year's winners they won seven five in the third Today we had a bit of an upset. Christian Harrison and Neil Skupsky went out to to the alternates Kokonakis and Kovacovic and then the big result is as Kryk and Mektic beat Favasori and Bellelli and K mekt were actually 94 down in the third set tiebreak in the round before and here they are finding themselves now in the quarterfinals where they will be playing now against Kokonakis Kovacevic, Hellevara, Patton player Andreasi and Guinard and then Aravelo Pavage play cash and glass Paul and Kravitz Putsbury Dumbia Rebel on the on the women's side before Martin Lee is coming on. He'll be on in the next minute or so. A big, big shout out to Ingrid Neal and Juju Almas who put in a brilliant result today. Brilliant performance to beat the third seeds Danolina and Krunich Perez ensures get the walk over. Marta Costuke has decided too much to play doubles and sing. We've talked about that a lot this week. It's not so easy for these players to combine the two, you know, which is why we end up with players that end up specializing in singles or specializing in doubles as well. Ayama and Liang took out Su Wei Sheikh and and Wang, you know Shuko and. And Liang put in a put a great performance of French Open as well. So well done to all of these teams and then the last one would be Yang and Jiang and Zhu who beat Siegmund and Zvonareva. So that's. So that's hotting up as well the doubles our girls tomorrow. Gabriella Dabrowski and Louisa Stefani are on Court 12 at 1pm tomorrow. So if you're at Wimbledon, come and support get behind the team. But now a big welcome to Martin Lee. How are you doing Marty? How's things?
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B
Good Dan, how are you?
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A
Very good. Thank you for, for joining us. And it was the last time I saw you. We were not in the pub, but we were in the Long Bar on Saturday, the Bishop Abbey reunion. You know, we all trained all those, all those years ago and it was nice to see a lot of old faces.
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B
Yeah, it was great to see everyone. It's great to see the old coaches that we used to work with. I think that's the first time we've all been together for probably 20 years, I think.
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A
Yeah. And I think the thing for me, Marty, that was quite special about it is how we're pretty much all still involved in the sport. Right. Like it goes back a long time. We all went to school together, we got stories that we can't talk about on this podcast together, but, you know, just, I think we all just kind of filter straight back into, you know, being good mates. Kind of gone through so much, so much together. But also we're still hopefully trying to pass, pass something on to the next generation as well.
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B
Yeah, I think that's, that's the, the big thing is that, yeah, we were so young when we met and it's sort of 30 years later and we're, most of us are still involved, involved in tennis and all at quite a high level, which is fantastic for the British tennis and everyone involved, really.
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A
And Ian Barclay and many of you that are, that are listening, you will know Ian Barclay and the Barkers is an absolute legend of the sport. You know, the coach, he was well known obviously be the coach of Pat Cash when he won Wimbledon in 1987. I think he, Pat Cash was the first player to climb up into the stands. And Barker's basically looked the same in 1987 as he looks now. You know, he had his gray hair, he had his gray mustache and you know, we were then very fortunate to have him looking after us at Bishop Abbey, which was the National Tennis Centre at the time. And here he is, 88 years old, he's managed to get on a plane from Australia to come and see us. And that was pretty special to have Barkers there as well.
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B
Yeah, it's amazing. He tries to come over every year. We always meet up and I think the thing with Barkers is when he sort of took over the National Tennis court school and started coaching us, we sort of, we, we sort of knew, knew about him but didn't not like what he'd done in the game. We knew he'd coach Pat Cash and I think the thing with what he did with, with Kashi was that he he coached him from the age of 12 or 10 all the way up to win Wimbledon, which doesn't, doesn't happen now. It's. It's something unique. So. And yeah, sort of we, we got to know a lot of stories about Barkers when we started sort of playing the junior Grand Slams. And every single person in the locker rooms knew him and it sort of. Barkers was just famous for, for being Barkers. He was such a. He's such, such a nice guy and just, just had so many good stories and just, just made sort of training fun, didn't he?
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Fun on the edge. We. There was, there was. I mean, incredible. And that's where I want to start, Marty, because were at Wimbledon. It's. It's during Wimbledon bringing people on to share their stories. I, I remember this well, that we were there 1995, watching you guys every round, all of, all of the Bisham lads together and you and Trotters, James Trotman, who's coach of Jack Draper, you know, playing. But after you won the semi final. I don't know if you remember this, but we had to go on a. Go on some trip somewhere. So we actually missed the final. We'd been. We were gutted. We were all like, what? We've got to go and play a tournament. Like, we can't watch Marty and Trotters in the final of Wimbledon on court one. Like, what the hell? Like, this is like ridiculous. But it was. I just remember that being like myself and I wasn't, I wasn't playing. But I just remember that week myself was like an unbelievable experience to kind of live that through. What you guys were doing, it is, was 31 years ago, which is like, what the, what has happened? Go back to that. 31 years ago, you're playing juniors. You find yourself in the junior Wimbledon final. I know that in that final it was caught one and it was actually famously, I believe it was Boris Becker said, are you telling me there's something more important going on right now than the men's singles final? Because of the noise that was coming from court one, the old court one that was obviously right next to center court. And it was, it was Martin Lee, James Trotman winning the junior doubles at Wimbledon.
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B
Yeah, it was. It. It's probably still one of my best memories. It's. I remember we were in the changing rooms and the old changing rooms were sort of under court to the old court too. And we're in the changing rooms and Barkers, we're just sort of warming up. We're probably going on in about 10 minutes time. And Barkers walks in and we're sort of. We're very, very nervous and we don't know what the crowd is or anything. And we, we said to Barker, so have you been out on the court? And he goes, yeah, I've been out there. And he, we said, oh, how many people out there? And we've. And he goes, about eight.
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So that's what.
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B
So that sort of relaxed us because we thought there's no one on this call. And then we sort of walked to the court and you can't see the court, the old court one, because it was attached to center. You sort of, you walked sort of under center and then you walk through this sort of gangway and then just walked up to the, up to court one. And then we walked in there and it was full to the rafters. It was. And we turned around to Barker's and we gave him a few swear words and. But it was just as I said it was. The memory is probably my best memory at Wimbledon. We, we played. We were nervous, but we, we started really well and sort of just. I always felt we were going to win. We were, we were just. We were playing better than the other guys. And then we, I think we got to, we got to sort of match point and maybe lost that one and then just won it. And it was just that feeling. And. Yeah. And what you said about Becca. So Becca was playing Sampras. Sam Pros beat Becker. And in Becca's speech he said, yeah, I don't know what was going on on court one, but it was a lot more exciting than, than this court. Yeah. So it was, it was amazing. And then it just, it sort of rolled on from there. You. We won it. We. We got to go on center court to collect our trophy from the roll box, which was fantastic because that, that we got that straight after the, the men's final. Then we were straight into the, the locker room because. Because if you win one of the titles, you've got to go to the Wimbledon ball. So we were trying on tuxedos and then we got in. They laid on a limousine for us. We're in the limousine. And this was the time when there was no, no social media, nothing. The driver of the limo had Capital Radio on. And then the first thing, the main headline was me and Trotters winning the boys doubles at Wimbledon ahead of Sam Perez beating Becker. So it was. And then I think the paper, the next, every paper next, next day, it
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was a big deal.
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I remember because I think we were the first British pair in singles or doubles to win a winner title, Wimbledon and a juniors. So I think it was, it was something that was quite special. We didn't really sort of know that at the time, but we, yeah, it was something that was really. I still remember it today like, it
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A
like it was yesterday and today we've had a British guy that's done something pretty special as well in, in Arthur Ferry, you know, and you talk about noise, you talk about Hemon Hill, you talk about all of those things that we, we know, we know about Wimbledon and, and what's, what's your take on that? You know, as someone who's obviously still heavily involved in the game, a highly respected coach, got all of your experience for, for a, for a lad who is outside, he's now inside the top of, outside the top of the world to win those matches. Seven, six in the fifth set. When the British players over the years, you know, we go back to them, the Chris Bailey's, you know, matches against Gori Manisovic, you know, so many kind of almost, almost got through, you know, what have you got to say about Arthur Ferry?
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B
It was amazing. I was sort of on, on court. I sort of own a tennis academy now, so I'm still heavily involved in tennis and I was on till about 7:30 and then came in and watched the last sort of close to two sets and it was amazing. It just Eve's. He just sort of looked at home on the court as well. He just was just, just it was like another match to him and he, you could see he was nervous but he was relaxed at the same time and he was getting the crowd involved when, when it needed to be and he was just, yeah, he just sort of played such a solid game and didn't make, didn't make many, many errors. But he just looked, the longer the match went on he looked like he was getting stronger and Dimitrov was getting a little bit more tired. But yeah, no, it's fantastic to well, to be a wild card and, and make the second week. I, I think I made the second week once and that's not because I won four matches. I won my first round main draw one year and then it rained for six days non stop. So I made the second Monday but I only won my match.
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A
We'll still take it. Are you ready for our quick fire round that we've been having with our guests over the last few days?
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B
We can go for this.
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A
Yeah, your best ever Wimbledon memory as a Fan.
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B
My best ever memory as a fan was when I was about 7 years old and a long, long time ago, you probably remember, it was short tennis and I got to play short tennis at Wimbledon and I met the Queen.
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A
Wow.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I play. I did that a couple years after you and I met John Lloyd and Virginia Wade. How did you get the Queen?
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B
I got the good year, I think
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A
then nothing against your John Lloyd, Virginia Wade, but do you know what I mean? The Queen would be. Finish this sentence. When I think of Wimbledon, I think of Henman Hill. Who would you most like to play on Centre Court, past or present?
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B
Andre Agassi.
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A
What song would you like to walk onto Centre Court?
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B
2. Wonderwall.
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A
If. If the whole tennis calendar in your era to your time was played on grass, would there have been a different top five in the world on the ATP and WTA?
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B
No, because I've sort of. When I was playing the grass was really fast and it was the. It was the serve volleyas and. And the ones that did well on grass always did well on grass. So I would say it's the San Francis.
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A
And what about now?
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B
Now I think it's a bit different. Like today the ferry match was. Was. Was good because it was. There was. They were coming to the net quite a lot, which we don't really see. Yeah. And the grass has got so much slower each year when I was playing. So I think it probably would be different now maybe because I don't think tonight Pete Sampras serve might not be as good now as it was because it was really fast then. But. Yeah, difficult to answer that one.
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A
Who's your favorite ever Wimbledon champion and why?
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B
I think Goran just. He was one of my idols because I was a lefty as well and I. I knew him quite well and we practiced a lot and he was a good character and he just. That year when he was. Because I think he was a wild card, wasn't he?
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He was, yeah.
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When he won and it was just. We all wanted Hammond to win and then as soon as Tim didn't get through that semis, I wanted Goran to win. And that. That was amazing for him because he. He had about. I think he had two or three finals before that that he didn't get over the line.
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A
What is your guilty pleasure in tennis?
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B
Guilty pleasure in tennis for life? I think my guilty pleasure. I think my guilty pleasure in tennis is when I'm not playing well and making the other player not play well at all as well. Bringing them down to my level.
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A
You were good at that.
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B
Yes.
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A
I remember playing you in doubles in Nottingham one year. It was like maybe Nottingham Challenger or something like that. And I'd never knew. I've never known anyone hit such slow returns. It was like. But it was like it would end up on my bloody feet every time. Like, literally just bunting the ball at my feet. Looking back, I think, why didn't people used to poach more? But maybe you then would have held it and gone and gone down the line. And it was like. Yeah, it was. There was some ugly times playing against you, Marty and you. And another one of my big memories was watching you play Grosjan in the final at Roehampton on grass in the juniors under 18. And I think you were maybe playing for world number one junior that day. Was that. Is that the right memory? I've got.
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B
It would have been very close. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Because I think when I played him in Mexico and we were. I was number one and he was number two. And then he beat me at Roehampton. He might have gone to number one when he beat me, actually. Probably.
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Right, okay. I lived your junior career. I lived. We all lived your junior career as well. You know, we all. And I think that was nice.
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B
Right.
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A
We all cared about each other as well, how everyone else did in our group, which I think that Barker's got that right with us all as well.
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B
I was just. I was going through a few of my results before I came on here. And when we won the doubles at Wimbledon, me and Trotters, the two weeks before at Thames Ditton, me and Trotters beat you and Davey Shirt six, one, six, two in the doubles.
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A
Did you? We got in. Yeah. That's a good win. It's a good win over Me and Davey Show. We were. We were a decent doubles team. So we. So we played a role. We played a role in setting you up. What's. What's one thing that you change about Wimbledon?
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B
I think I would quite like the known net rule.
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A
Okay.
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B
Because it's in the juniors. And then I think that'd be quite interesting for some. Some interesting points at some interesting situations.
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A
What's the best advice you would give a young tennis player that they should really remember through their tennis journey?
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B
You've just got to be an unconditional competitor. You've got just never give up and just try your best. And it doesn't matter if you lose to someone. Six love. Six love. You keep trying. You keep. And then next time you might win two or three games off them. And the next time you might get a set, but if you just an unconditional competitor and you just try as hard as you can every single day, you'll improve and you'll maximize what you're meant to do in tennis.
- [25:13]
A
Brilliant. Brilliant answer. And last, last question. Marty, before you can jump off, if I answer a couple more of the questions that are coming in. Who's winning the World Cup? Is it coming home?
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B
I think we've got a chance now. France looks very, very good at the start, but hopefully they've peaked a bit too early. I think if Bellingham plays like he did yesterday, I think we're gonna be, we'll be all right.
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A
Marty Lee said it's, it's coming home, guys. Marty, thank you. You can jump off now. Thank you so much for coming on, mate. And hopefully catch up with you really soon.
- [25:47]
B
Cheers, Dan.
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A
We've got a question here coming up before, before I jump in, guys. We got before with dear Dans. We've got a question here that I've just seen come through. With Elisa Mertens getting knocked out of doubles, did you expect, how surprising was her win against Rebakina? I, I, I rate Mertens very highly and I think she's, I think you have, you have certain players. This will be my take on it. You have certain players who, who have a, a very high range or, or level. You know, so on their good days, they're, they're, they're hot. Hot, like really right there and then. But sometimes the range, if you imagine almost like a boat, you know, the range of a bit too far. So, so in fact, on their great day, they're fantastic, but on their bad day they're really not so good. And then maybe on their medium day there, they do okay. They do okay. Was I, how I see Elise is, is, she's got quite a small boat and her, her kind of base level is very good and her bottom level is very good. You know, maybe she doesn't quite have that top, top level that you're Rebaken or Sabalenka and these players have. But I also, the second thing that I would say alongside that, I think she's a brilliant competitor, like absolutely brilliant competitor. So I think when she plays these top players, if they're not absolutely honored on that day, then, then I think Mertens is a nightmare for them. I think they really are. So, and that's, you know, was I surprised winning? Is Rebaken a little bit surprised, maybe, but I know the Rebakina seems to have gone off the boil a bit the last few weeks, you know, it doesn't seem like that I said this the other night. I don't know. I don't have any inside knowledge on this. But there's something not right. And we know historically the last two or three years when Rebecca has kind of upset in his, in her personal life, that it does tend to, to go onto the court as well. And so the worst person you want to play when you're not feeling confident that you've maybe got a few things going on is you don't want to play against Lisa Mertens, you know, because she will just make your life hell. And so because it's taking all of that into account, I wouldn't say it's a massive surprise, her chances against Noskova. I actually have Merten's as favorite for that match. I know Nozkova is playing very well, but again, for that same reason, I think Nozkova has to play at her very, very high end, you know, and, and I think Mertens will just bring a really strong level, her base level. And I think if they both play almost their base level, I think Mertens will win with pure determination and fight. If Noskova plays her highest level, she maybe hit, hit Mertens off the court. But Lisa Mertens for me is maybe favorite in that match. And, and, and I think, yeah, I think it's a real opportunity for them both. So, so, so let's see, let's see. But yeah, big, big, big, big fan of what she brings to the, to the court and very, very difficult player to beat. A couple of little dear Dan questions before we go today, guys, and thank you for Betty, thank you for those questions and thank you as ever, for the, for the support of the podcast. One from here, from Claire. Claire Fielding. What do you think other tournaments could learn from Wimbledon? Difficult question, I think. Look, what I love a bit like my analogy on this is you go to everyone's wedding and weddings are different in their own unique way. Like my brother got married and, and they did their, their wedding party at a pub in London. London. And it just worked. It worked for him, worked for the family, worked how it was. I've been to weddings that are in beautiful castles. I've been to weddings that are in, you know, they've got marquees. I've been to weddings which are much smaller and, you know, you've got a more intimate dinner and, and I think it's, it, it can work in lots of different ways. There's lots of. As long as it's authentic and, and I think my thing to, to bring that back, to tell us if I've made any sense on that is Wimbledon is just so unique and authentic to what to Wimbledon. Just everything about it, how it's manicured. You know, you look around the grounds and like the detail of everything. You know, the, the ivy that's coming off the center call, the, the flowers, the, the positioning of, of the finishing touches to, to everything that they do. You know, obviously they're carrying a lot of tradition and history, whereas if you try and take some of that to select the U.S. open, maybe doesn't work because the U.S. open is new York and authentic to New York is the hustle, the bustle, the, the, you know, people everywhere, the, the loudness, the, the lights, the glitz, the glamour, you know, that's what makes New York special, you know, so it's, it's. I think it's difficult sometimes to compare tournaments. You know, obviously from an operational standpoint. There's lots of things that I would have personally that Wimbledon better as I would lots of tournaments, but also that they do very well, you know. But from just an event of, of of of of what Wimbledon is about and what most of these tournaments are about, I almost wouldn't like to compare because I think it's about being true and authentic to yourself, to the culture, you know, and that's, that's something that obviously Wimbledon does incredibly well, but sort of. Sort of lots of tournaments do that incredibly well as well. But thanks for asking that, Claire, and getting in touch. We. We have one last question. I through this evening before we get out of here. I've got. Got a match to. To plan for to tomorrow. We need to, you know, make sure everything's in place for, for that at 1pm tomorrow. But one from Sam Evans here. Hi, Dan. What aspect of doubles has evolved the most since your playing days? I would, I would say this one's relatively, relatively simple actually. Is, is I think the, the. The serve and terr. You know, the understanding of the territory geometry of the court and linking that into set plays is. I would say everyone's well informed on that now. And because the serves have naturally improved over the years as well, the success of the serve or the quality of the serve hitting the spot and then understanding the position related to that means that returning in this is men's doubles more than anything, but means that return becomes very challenging, you know, because we. The spaces are closed down and, and I think whereas what we used to see a little bit more in men's doubles is that the return got past the service partner more, which probably makes for a little bit more. And we had Johnny o' Mara on the other day, and I've seen he's been. Been tweeting this a little bit as well. And, and I think there's context to what Johnny's saying that men's doubles is a bit boring. You know, Calvin Betton hears me say that. He's gonna, he's gonna be saying, no, it's not. And I'm not. I'm not saying that it is. However, I do get that people like to see maybe a little bit more creativity. So we used to see maybe like John McEnroe player first volley, and then there was like a bit more angles and a bit more touch and a bit more, you know, it's maybe become a little bit more sterile. And I think that's related to how good the serves are on the positioning, which. And, and how now are a service partner. You know, whereas I talk about this a lot, I think in women's doubles, the starting point of a point is that the return is of a higher quality, so they avoid the partner of the server more or they hit a higher quality ball at the service partner, which makes it harder to finish the point. So now we're starting from that position of ball three where you've maybe got to be a bit more creative, a little bit more tactical. You need to have maybe a. A few more tools in your box. Which, which is why I do relate women's doubles a bit more to junior doubles and also club, you know, club players looking to learn a lot about doubles. I would recommend watching women's doubles over men's doubles because in general, men's doubles is dominated by the serve spots being hit and then the territory and geometry of the court being covered. And this, which is why we're seeing. We seeing a lot of these men's doubles matches here on. At Wimbledon. I. A bit slower than it used to be, but it's still a somewhat fast surface. But is. Is, you know, is it comes down to you have one or two opportunities. I was watching Glass Glass, Pool and Cash today, and they got to 65 break point and you're kind of watching in the third set, you think, well, this is your chance. Because if you don't take this chance, this could be ace, ace or ace finish. And now you're in a tie break and fair play. Lloyd stepped up in a clutch way. He made a return a bit chunky, but then hit a great backhand. And that's it, that's your one chance. But it's very easy to be after that match if you've maybe you've missed that backhand going, oh, my God, we should, we had that chance, but it was just one. You know, you don't get as many. The margins are a lot smaller and I do think that that has evolved and, and it's probably going to continue to, to evolve. You know, the, the information's out there now. The statistics are out there. The data's out there now on the ATP. You now, everyone gets the insights now as well. That's just come out in the last few weeks on the double side. They've had it for the singles guys for a while. So kind of watch this space a little bit on that because I think people are getting better at it, you know, which is why in general as well, players that are playing a lot of doubles, they might not be as good at a tennis player or singles player as the top singles players, but in general they'll beat the them because they do the doubles thing so well and it's become a real craft. Obviously, sometimes tennis, just pure tennis, can beat doubles, but in general, they've become so good at that skill of doubles that they often come out on top. Sorry, going on a bit too long, Sam, but hopefully that answers the question somewhat. And we will be back it. Tomorrow is day nine. Wow. We're going by, we're, we're going by fast. Lots more great tennis to come tomorrow. And I will be back again tomorrow, tomorrow evening. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are controller controllables.