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- [00:00]
A
So as a former professional tennis player loosely and now a professional coach working on tour, one thing that I see constantly, even at the very highest level of the game is players working incredibly hard, but not always smart, not always in the most structured of ways. Now there's so much information around strength and conditioning that it can become a little bit overwhelming for people. You know, players are just adding more hours, more sessions, more volume when what they really need, they need clarity. And I've seen technically excellent players out there plateau in their tennis not because of their skill level but because their physical foundations weren't strong enough to support their game and their talent. That's why for me, tennis athlete is the platform that sets the standard. It provides a clear, structured approach to strength and conditioning. Every program is age appropriate, it's research informed and it's delivered by SC coaches with proven track records of long term results. It's the platform that I trust when it comes to physical development. And if you're ready to take your development seriously, head over to sototenis.com tennisathlete that's sototenis.com SL Tennis Athlete because physical preparation is one of the biggest controllables that you have. Welcome to episode 286 of Controller Controllables and brought to you by Novelis. This is our French Open review and it's coming the night that the final of the men's singles has finished only only a few hours ago as Alexander Zverev wins his first major title as does Mirandreva win her first major title. Whereas on the doubles side if you're world number one and ranked number one in the world number one seeds it was a full sweep in the men's doubles, the women's doubles and and the mixed doubles. And I'm joined this evening by Freddie Nielsen who's been an ever present or he did tell me he did miss the review back in 2021 after the Australian Open to to which I joked with him that that was our most listened ever episode. Freddie. So maybe that was saying something. And also Calvin Betton who the coach of Henry Patton who as as of tomorrow move Harry Helavara after their final appearance at Roland Garros. Lots to talk about in this one. We've had an incredible two weeks in Paris. I'm going to pass you over to our French Open review panelists. So a big welcome to our French Open review panelists Freddie Nielsen and Calvin. Ben, how are you doing?
- [03:10]
B
Great, thanks. How are you?
- [03:13]
A
I'm good. I'm. I'm good. I'm yeah. In. In London. Paris to Malaga to london in. In 20 calva. A big congrats. A couple of congrats from all of us at controller Controllables. Another Grand Slam final, I believe. A first Roland Garros final for the boys and then moving to world number one tomorrow. So Henry Patton and Harry Heliovara. Big, big well done from us all.
- [03:43]
C
Yeah, cheers, mate. Cheers. Yeah, the lads have done well. Like, you know, a little bit bittersweet with not winning the final yesterday, but I think once a couple of days have gone, it'll settle in and officially they become world number one tomorrow. Harry said that after the semi, the only way they couldn't have done it was with a default. A little bit of a shaky moment when Harry threw his racket at his bench halfway through the second set yesterday. I saw that where that was going to bounce was a little bit. A little bit heart in mouth. But yeah, no, they've done. The lads have done great. I mean, they had a chance to be world number one. They had a match to be world number one exactly 12 months ago in the quarterfinals at the French and lost that match and they haven't had another match to do that since. Even though they've been pretty much the dominant team on tour for the last nine months. I'd say since post US Open they've been the dominant team on tour, but haven't actually ever come close to being world number one in that period, which was strange. But I mean, like I said to them the other day, kind of kind of fit in because I feel like if we'd have done it a year ago, that opportunity kind of came out of the blue. I think we were among the best teams in the world, but I don't think at that time we were the best team in the world. Are of Alopavic were on a phenomenal run of form at that period and by sort of freak of ranking points we could have become world number one. But I feel like this time they actually are the best team in the world and I think it's kind of fitting that they've done it now and they've kind of got. They're in a great spot now, Henry and Harry, because they don't have a whole lot to defend between now and the Asian swing. So anything that they get is just opening up a gap really. Whereas the teams around them have got quite a bit to defend in that period. Like Lloyd and Jules obviously got a load to defend over the grass and going into the hards. Neil Skbsky has got Wimbledon semi US Open final, Toronto final to defend Granola Zebios got Wimbledon semi US Open win to defend. So you know, they've, they've kind of. Henry and Harry don't have any of that. They have a couple of quarterfinals. I think that's it.
- [05:57]
A
And just while, whilst we've got you, you know, we on the doubles actually side of things, I know we're going to jump into the singles and we predominantly talk about the singles in these, in these reviews that the top seeds in every doubles event, the, the men's doubles, women's doubles and mixed doubles was won by, by top seeds, which is, which is maybe the opposite to the singles, which we'll get into in a bit. But how do you prepare for a, for a Grand Slam final like that? And, and tell us a little bit about the final as well. I mean I, I did watch it pretty much most, most of the match and it just, it always just felt it was going the way of Granola Zabayos. It felt that they just kind of had their claws in the match and it was going to be a tough match to turn around sometimes hard to put your finger on it, but just as a, as a tennis fan you sometimes feel that as well. But tell us about the preparation first and then a little bit about the final.
- [06:50]
C
Yeah, the. We had a day off the day before and we had a hit on, we had a hit on Chatrier then and knowing that we were going to be 11 o' clock in the morning, which thought was a pretty, pretty crap organization. They playing a Grand Slam Finally 11 o' clock in the morning, I don't think is, you know, no one should be doing that really any standard. What can kind of concern me the day before was that we got there for the practice. To practice. I think our practice the day before was 1045 to 1145 and the court was damp, it was really wet. And I was told that we'd already practiced on Chatra a couple of days before that early morning. And we're told that they drenched the court every morning at 8am but they normally don't start matches until midday on Chatriere. And I was a little bit concerned. If they're drenching this court like this at 8am and this is what the court's like at 10:45, it's going to be extremely slow when we play the next day because I knew that the roof was going to be closed. The weather forecast wasn't great, so it wasn't going to get any sun on it. And it actually transpired that that was the case. They still drenched the court at 8am and by the time we had our pre match on it at 9:30, it was still very, very damp and very wet. And then by the time the match started it was extremely wet and damp and slow. And when they shut the roof, it just kind of makes everything a little bit more humid and it just slows the conditions down. And that was never going to work in our favor the way that we play on top of that, like Harry had. Harry had sort of struggled a little bit with his first serve percentage during the week. But what he had done exceptionally well is hit his kicker, which is an extremely good and aggressive kicker. And it was almost as effective, not say almost, it was as effective as a first serve in the first week when it was, it was hot and it was dry and the ball was just bouncing and the conditions were lively. And his first serve, his second serve, his kick serve in the first two or three rounds was just like say was. He was, he was barely losing points on it. I think he was, I think he won 85% of second serve points in the first two rounds. When we get to those conditions that we had yesterday when the court's wet and it's damp, it just doesn't take a kick at all. And so the ball was kind of coming in just at a nice height for Granola Zebios and it kind of, you know, Harry struggled on his service games, then Henry struggled on his in the second set. And I knew kind of early on in the match, in the first game of the match, Zeballos took a full swing at Henry's first serve, which no one does. And you could see then how, how slow the court was. And yeah, we just struggled. I mean, you know, we actually broke, we broke twice and we had 1540 in another game and we had a couple of 30 alls as well, but we just struggled to hold our own serve. And that was, you know, they're a very, very good slow court team. And Zeba Else's coach, who I've come to know pretty well afterwards, he said to me that if that match should have been played in the first week, the scoreline would have been reversed. And I think he's probably right in that. But you know, it wasn't, it was played in those conditions. And that's when you.
- [09:58]
A
And how do you make that shift? Because on Chatria as well, you're so far away from the players, it's very difficult to get messages to Them.
- [10:08]
C
And again, it's how things work out, how, you know, how situations work out. Like, Harry was struggling a bit with this, with his serve, but he was serving at the far end as well, away from us. And you're so far away that you just. We just felt like we couldn't influence anything from. From where we sat. I mean, I know you were sat there, I think, a couple of days before, maybe in the. In the mixed final. And, you know, I just don't know how some of these tournaments, I just don't know how they managed to get it so far wrong. You know, they've all seen what Australia does and that's the ultimate. That, that. That's, you know, it's excellent what Australia does. They have the coaching pod on the court. You're literally at the side of the court. They can get the TV cameras on, you know, they can hear what you're saying, and it just feels. Everything feels more. More involved. Those boxes, those coaching boxes in Chatriere are miles away. You can't.
- [10:59]
A
No, no. Miles away.
- [11:00]
C
I don't know why they're there, because there's. There's. I counted it. There's eight rows of seats before the coaching box. Well, I don't know why is the coaching box. You know, they're still quite far away, even if you're on the front row, but at least you're on the front row. Why do they need to be eight rows back for the coaching boxers? But like most things at Roland Garros, there's no explanation to it and you just get a shrug of the shoulders when you ask why. So. But yeah, it was, you know, it was difficult. We. We felt like we just couldn't really grasp anything and get anything back. And then they got granola and Zevaos at that moment when we did kind of get it back, they got a little bit lucky on a couple of points and, you know, it just felt like we just didn't. We couldn't find anything on the day.
- [11:46]
A
Really well done. Well done. And also a big well done. Sara, Ronnie, Andrea Vavasori as well. M. Mixed doubles champions.
- [11:56]
B
Is that a way into getting attention? Up to you now.
- [12:00]
A
No, no, I'm. I'm flashing well over that. And coming to singles, Freddy. Don't worry about that.
- [12:05]
B
But no, you got to give yourself a. A second of credit. You had a good tournament, too, with your players.
- [12:10]
C
Absolutely, yeah.
- [12:11]
A
Yeah. No, fantastic. Yeah. I mean, the, the players. Look at. At the end of the day, I think. I think, as you guys well know, the, The Deeper you get into those tournaments sometimes the, the harder the fall feels in those, in, in those big matches. You know, when you, you, you feel so close. But I think exactly what Calvin says, you, you, you have a little bit of time to reflect and, and you actually look at it as, as the, the result means, means more a little bit later. And I know for Gabby Dabrowski that's her first semifinal of, that's her first SEM at Roland Garros and she's obviously had a great career but never made the semis. Same same with Louisa Stefani as well. It is her third French Open mix doubles final loss, which I made the error of telling her how nice the trophy was two minutes after the match in the gym, to which she told me it's just the same as the other final losses that I've had. So that was maybe a bit of a learning, bit of a learning for me coaching wise. And then also I think a good tournament as well. I think as many people know, recently started work with Andre Goranson who's playing with Evan King. I think they had a, I think they had a strong tournament as well. They've had a pretty good clear court season from the ranking that they're at and you know, had a couple of good wins and came across the best team in the world in the third round. You know, I didn't went head to head with Calvin and got. Got our asses whooped. But fair play, it, it was, it was also a pleasure to actually watch. I mean obviously I know Harry very well, but to see Henry up close in that match, it was like, wow. He was, he was super, super, super impressive. It was like this guy, like where do you serve to him? What do you do against him? Like really it felt any body touch. So, so yeah, I think over overall a fantastic tournament and, and nice to be a part of that and a big shot and fair play at Cyniaka and Townsend, they've won their third major. They, they played an incredible semifinals against, against my girls and then went on to win the final. Like I said, the top seeds in all of the, all of the sync, all of the doubles, which wasn't the case on the singles. Freddy and I, I can I just
- [14:22]
B
say, can I just say one point you both said about the, the toughness of the losses. Don't you also feel that sometimes when you go deep in a big tournament like that it feels like because it's so much hard work and you know how much goes into going deep and you don't take it for granted that once you're there, you're. And you lose, you're kind of like, we were this close and now we have to do it all over again. Whereas if you lose in the first few rounds, you don't have that feeling as strongly, I think.
- [14:48]
A
And Carl, if you jump in in a second, I think. I think for me on that, I as a coach will never take for granted that the players that I'm working with are in that situation, you know, so. So it might be the last time, right? It is. Is the reality. And it might be the last time for the players, you know, So I think naturally you feel that you. I think you naturally are already very tired. So I think there's like. I think there's. There's a. There's a stronger emotion that goes with it. And again, I'm not speaking for you, Cal, but I think you're. You know, I certainly felt it. I mean, even another player work with Cleve Harper got into the event actually, as fifth alternate. So there was. There was a lot going on throughout the whole of Roland Garros. And it did feel. I must admit, my last two or three days there, I felt absolutely exhausted, you know, so. And then you're like. And, and for us on the women's side, playing a cynic of a Townsend, you. You feel, you know, every shot they're gonna hit because I've watched them so much and you've scouted so much, and you. You kind of have this. You're just completely engrossed in it, right? So. So I think all of those things, and you're obviously so connected to your players. You know what it means to them. You know, that what they're not just what they've done those two weeks, but their. Their. Their whole careers. You've. You tend junior coaches that are involved in some ways or, you know, you know, like the. The family or, you know, everything that's gone on the 20, 25 years to get there as well, you know, and it feels. It all comes to this head and this period, but you're then trying to just keep the player in that moment. And, and you. You. You're talking your game plans and you're trying to stay absolutely in that present moment. And so I think it's a whole kind of host of. Of different emotions. And maybe. I don't know if this makes sense for anybody. It's like if I said to. I sometimes do with kids at the start of a session in an academy, I'll say, right. First one to Get a rally of. Not first one. You've got to get a rally of 50 before you do anything else. And if they get to 48 and miss, it's like, oh, and. And it's then very hard to start the rally again because it's like you're dealing with that. Whereas if they miss the first couple of shots, it's like, I've got another goal, you know, And I suppose there's probably a little element of. Of that as well. But, yeah, it does. It feel. Everything feels bigger. Everything feels. But that's also. It's a big privilege to be. To be a part of those experiences as well.
- [17:19]
C
Yeah, I think. I mean, it was a different experience for me yesterday because it's the first time we lost a Grand Slam final. Obviously, it was a bit strange because, like, you know, the lads won't mind me saying this, we didn't really perform and didn't play very well. And I think it was like. I remember, like, the Wimbledon final and the Australian Open finals that we won a couple of years ago. I don't know whether it would have felt worse or better if we'd have those matches. We actually play very well. Both matches were very close, and we could have lost either. Either of them. They could have gone the other way. And I don't know whether it would have felt how that would have felt. But yesterday just felt a bit like it was more a frustration rather than a disappointment. I was disappointed, without a doubt, but it was a frustration that, you know, I. I don't know that, you know, we didn't really make them do much either. I didn't think that. It's not any criticism of. Of Granola Zebes. I don't think they played particularly well. It wasn't like, oh, they were just too good. Like, they were too good for us because we didn't play well, but. And they might have had another couple of levels to go up. But that's where the disappointment came for me. I suppose that felt like we didn't really leave it all out there, to be honest.
- [18:30]
A
Freddie.
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B
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I was just wondering because sometimes from a. When I was there as a player, it felt once you get in there, you know how much it takes to come back, and it's. It's hard work, like, you guys have been through, and obviously sometimes the. You guys have so much more to do outside the court than the players. I've not been going that deep into a tournament as a coach, so I haven't experienced that From a coaching point of view, but it feels like obviously you guys had. It's been a pretty extravagant two weeks from you guys and it must be tough. You said physically then of course, but maybe also because when you get that deep, you also feel like this was a good chance to maybe get something out of it.
- [19:14]
C
I mean, it's also like it was different for us this run as well in that, you know, we. We had quite a nice draw admittedly, you know, in that the kick Kino's team, Evan and Andre were the only set doubles pair that we played against before the final. Like we played, we played first round, we played two singles players. Second round we played two singles players. Then we played Evan and Andre. Then we played a doubles pair who just repaired to get in the tournament in Demolina and Bellagi. And then we played another couple of singles players. So, you know, we've never really had that. Both our slam wins, we've actually had pretty tough draws in them. And we played almost. I think we've played in both slams that we won. We only played one singles pair in, in those 10 in those 12 matches. And this time we played. We played three right there and then. So it was kind of like a bit. It did it, you know, like when you go to the Slams, you feel like you. You've got to. In order to win it, you've got to beat the best players. And it was a bit of a strange one getting to the final. I mean, admittedly like Hallease Herbert are in particular a very good singles doubles pair like her Bears won five slam titles and Hallease.
- [20:31]
B
Yeah, he's got all four. Right?
- [20:33]
C
Yeah. But still they haven't won anything as a pair, you know, so it was kind of like. It was a strange way to get to the final, but it was a strange tournament all round. The men's dou.
- [20:45]
B
Yeah, but you got to pull it, put. Put in the. The home side thing as well to have them in the semi final. They're playing well. They're at home. That's not easy.
- [20:52]
C
It's not, no. But again, like the, you know, the French, like it was a strange atmosphere out there. There was a lot of kids and it felt like a bit of a circus more than anything. I don't think by any stretch they've got that chant, you know, that chant that they do. The Bull fight Enchant. The. And it got to a stage during the match where it was just silly, you know, like you. Anyone who's played in France like you, you guys have both Played there and coached there and that kind of thing. You get that chant five or six times a set. Usually, like during this match, it was relentless. It was because there was so many kids in there. It was. It was seven or eight times a point, seven or eight times a game, you know, and it was. It got to the stage then where it kind of like, it was noisy, but it wasn't particularly intimidating. Like, I was on the court next to. We played our first match on the court next to Suzanne Longlon when Kwame played the lad from Paraguay. And that place was bouncing. Long Lon was bouncing that day.
- [22:02]
A
And I was like, long, long microphones around the hall, especially if you're around that court, 8, 6, 9, like area.
- [22:11]
C
And there were people. I reckon there were 5, 000 people around Longlon as well, watching the big screens on that, on that day.
- [22:18]
A
Yeah.
- [22:19]
C
And I remember thinking that this lad, like, I mean, he didn't cover himself in glory afterwards, to be fair, but I remember thinking, like, this lad who's playing Kwame, to have that coming in on you, I think he was only like 19. To have that coming in on you, like, it must have been a hell of a lot of pressure. Whereas the day we were there, when we played, it just felt a bit silly.
- [22:42]
A
I think the big one for. I think the big one for me, Freddie, to reference Sabalenka and Sinner in this, the one that I see at major championships is that feeling of like, I've got to put myself back into the fire again. I've gotta. I've gotta go again and I've got to be that performer again and I've got to step onto that court and I've got to step up again and I've gotta, you know, do that in front of not, not just the crowd that are there, but the crowd on the tv, the country that are. That are watching behind, you know, a lot of these players, you know, let's take Louisa Stefani and the whole of Brazil watches. You know, it's. It's a big deal. It's shown on ESPN in Brazil and everyone's. And. And you're, you know, I think any of us have that situation. I think it's like, it's one of my biggest challenges. Running an academy is like. And I. And I go back to the academy, it's like, right, I've got to be the director of the academy again today and I've got to come in with that, you know, enthusiasm and I've got to speak to parents and I've got to. That's hard. That's a hard thing to do. And it's something I have so much respect for tennis players that are able to do it, you know, and I think sometimes we watch and we think they're almost robots, right? You know, and that being, having that look firsthand and being involved in these, these elite athletes because it is the ones that are, that are achieving that and sustainably achieving that. They're elite, they're elite in mindset, you know, whereas we, we do see certain players can nip in and have a good run, but then we don't see them for a while. You know, we've seen it a lot on the women's side and, and that was actually one of my feelings going into this event was with Yannick Sinner of how he was going to do that again, right? How was he gonna, you know, we all, we almost take it for granted or he's just gonna win. That's just what he does. But it's like it's not easier to just keep, keep putting yourself into that fire in, into that mixer. But, but Freddie, what, what it did achieve, I, I, and we talked about it kind of mid tournament. For me, it produced a quite incredible Roland Garros this year. You know, I think there was, there was so many storylines there on granted. I think on the men's single side, everyone almost ran out of steam and we kind of limped over maybe the last, the, the kind of quarterfinals on, became a little bit of a limp. And even the final today, I know we had a five setter, but it was, it was a little bit of a limp from, from both players really in terms of, you know, created a lot of drama certainly at the end of the fourth set there, but it maybe didn't quite produce the, the highest, highest level of, of tennis. But what was your take? I know you were there for event, but watching on from, from afar was, was the event as special as it felt being involved? Like there was a certain middle period there that like, it felt like it was just every match was five sets, every match was doing this. The crowd were going crazy. You then like threw in psg beating Arsenal in the middle of it while all of it was kicking off. And it felt like the real epicenter of the world was, was happening in Paris. For a, for a moment there, honestly,
- [25:54]
B
I felt like it, it was something that I didn't know tennis needed before it happened, but I felt like it kind of, I felt like it was a bear coming out of hibernation. Whereas for so many years, the Grand Slams have kind of been given until the later stages, and you kind of knew who was there. And it got a little bit predictable, particularly on the men's side. And even though it had been less predictable the last few years, the constants of Sinner and Alcaraz kind of prolonged that feeling that came from the Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray times of tennis. And now I kind of felt like it was back to the days where Martin Fikirk would make a final. I think we spoke about that on the podcast as well. And I was sitting today with the feeling that this was kind of 2003 Gaudio against Korea final. This one. I had the same kind of feeling that these kind of finals are now possible. And I thought it was wildly entertaining, and I was pumped to follow it to. Whereas I hadn't had the same enthusiasm because it was kind of given. And for example, we spoke on that live stream, and I was. I kept saying, felix, Felix, Felix. And then last minute, I go, nah, let's go for Cyrundolo. And then the next day, he loses to Swider. It's like, there's no logic to this, but this kind of Wild West, I kind of feel like people need it. And there's been so much talk about the tournament. Everybody has been following it. I know some. Some of my acquaintances and various threads are saying, like, okay, Sver wanted, but it almost didn't feel like a Grand Slam. But this is what it was. I mean, this is how it used to be. Sometimes there were some wild tournaments. You know, I think back to, was it in 96 when Krychik played Washington in the final Wimbledon? I feel like we're back to the times where this could happen or Gustavo Kierden can make a run. So I think it was. I thought it was really entertaining. And I feel like every player in the draw will be thinking, okay, this could happen. You know, there are variables. You know, Carlos is out, Musetti is out, Holger is out, or whoever is out. And then like you said, you called it before the tournament, that Sinner was probably going to have a bad day, which on the live stream, I also said I thought was a little bit becoming an old story, but it proved to be true. Then, despite he was the. I think he was the biggest bookmaker's favorite. And basically a long time, I think he was a bigger favorite than Rafa ever was. And. And still this could happen. So I'm all for it. Give me more.
- [28:44]
A
Was it. Was it the biggest upset in Roland Garros history. Calv sinner going out in the second round.
- [28:49]
C
Yeah, but I also.
- [28:51]
A
6, 2, 5, 3. 6 2, 6351 up.
- [28:54]
C
I think we also have to analyze it in a different way than that. It's been a bit disingenuous to say that he was, for all intents and purposes, it was an injury. Like he could have just retired at that point for all that he was, for all that he offered after that point. If he'd have pulled his hamstring at that point and withdrawn, we wouldn't be sat talking about it like it's a massive upset and that kind of thing. Something happened. Now we can talk about why it happened, like his preparation, that kind of thing. But he was not, he was not there at all from that point. He could have, like I say, he could have just retired at that point and we wouldn't be talking about it like a massive upset. And, and that's.
- [29:32]
B
Didn't he say that he felt like that all day long?
- [29:34]
C
He said on the morning he woke up feeling that way, but then he said he was fine. And then at that point it felt he. He got a lot worse. But, I mean, I can't keep doing it.
- [29:47]
A
You can't keep doing it. Human beings can't keep doing it.
- [29:50]
C
I went and watched the match on the court and. And he, he just, he couldn't perform, you know, and fair play to him that he stayed out there, you know, and I think he was staying out there just hoping something would change. But like I say, if that's an injury, and it was a type of injury, what he had, it was an illness that I don't think we can put it in as, like, he just, it was just a loss, you know, something happened in the match and, you know, like, if, like, was it an illness?
- [30:17]
A
Was it an illness or was it. Was it just.
- [30:19]
C
No. Well, he said it was too many matches. No, at the time we thought it was a. At the time we thought it was. We thought it was just a heat exhaustion thing, but he said afterwards that he'd been ill in the morning and then it had gone and then it came back during the match and he couldn't perform or anything. I'm sure there was a certain level of heat exhaustion in there. It was brutally hot. But I think, like I say, I think we have to take it in some context and in that regard, that's why I don't think it was. I don't think we can count it as the biggest upset that we've ever seen, because you can only count that if the match gets finished on normal terms. And it just didn't more than half the match. Sinner just wasn't there as an entity that we expect. I think soddling, beating Rafa, whatever year that was, was a much bigger upset because Rafa was fully fit and he just couldn't find it that day.
- [31:12]
B
But your line of questioning then, does that mean that you think it was something, a mental exhaustion that manifested itself physically?
- [31:19]
A
Yeah, I do. I think. I, I, one thing and I don't, I don't think I said it that strongly on the, on the preview, but it's something I felt strongly for a while is I could not believe that he played Indian Wells, Miami, then he went Monte Carlo, then he went Madrid, then he went Rome. I could not believe he did that. Like, like, for me, that was absolutely. If we're talking Roland Garros is the big one, and if we take Novak Djokovic right now, right at his stage of his career, he basically only cares about Grand Slams. That's, that's ultimately what is going to define someone's career. Now, obviously, Yannick Sinner could win all of the Masters 1000s this year and that would be an incredible achievement. And that's going to. Watch that, watch this space for that. Because I would imagine that that's something that's in his mind right now, especially with Carlos Alcaraz out, you know, so there's, there's a bit of an argument there that that's, that's going to be a historical year to do that. Right. But you ultimately are defined by Grand Slams, by major titles, and for me, Yannick Sinner and his team have got this one wrong. I really believe that, you know, like, this was a Roland Garros that he could have pretty much strolled through, but I think he overplayed. I think playing five, those back to back, basically back to back five masters 1000s was too much, too much tennis. And to refer to my point that I've made earlier, do not underestimate, yes, we're watching Yannick Sinner win 2 and 2 and 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 and these sort of results. But he's having to get into that space, the nervous system being fully switched on, the preparation, fully switched on to jump into that fire and be Yannick Sinner, the world's best male tennis player. That's not an easy space to go into time and time and time and time and time again. And, and I think he already showed signs in Rome people were talking about the panic attacks they were talking about. I think he does have, he does have some anxieties linked to how his body handles the heat and handles long matches and you know, 1 and 8, 1 and 8 record in best of five sets. It's something crazy. Like he, up until Australian Albany never won a match over 3 hours 15 minutes. You know, the. I think he does have some serious issues mentally with how he is able to handle that and that on top of all of the, all of the matches, I think it was gonna, it was going to catch him out at some point. And, and, and I, and I'm absolutely convinced that, that that's played a big role in, in what probably would have been his easiest major title to date to, to pick up and tick off the list.
- [34:08]
B
But maybe, maybe his team will say the same now and say, cool, that was a mistake and maybe he won't do it anymore. But he's also young and you know, maybe, maybe Darren Kale should have, could have advised some more, but it is still a young team and they live in the. As they learn. And we've also seen some of the other players throughout time also have some, some questionable scheduling. So maybe this is just part of the process and maybe they thought let's keep it rolling.
- [34:36]
A
You know, when he finishes on 24, like Novak Djokovic is gonna, maybe he's, he'll look back at this as he's 25th, just like Nova will look back at the time that he hit the, hit the ball or hit the racket into the, into the lines. Judge at U S Open, you know, when he's weird to winning that one, you know, so it's gonna happen. But the one thing I do want to pick up on the back of that, Freddie is obviously Italian tennis has been talked about a lot, but it's, they've kind of lived in the shadow of Yannick Sinner a little bit, right. The men. And then all of a sudden it was like, Yannick's gone. We're here. Look at us, you know, we're, we're, we're all here as well. It was that, that top half of the draw where they all kind of came about, you know, an Aldi against Berettini to play, to play Cabolian in, in this, in the semi finals. We have talked about the Italians before, but they're doing something right. You know, it feels, it feels like a team. It feels like they're all on each other's side even playing. I know the mixed doubles Final it felt like you were playing against a bigger thing than just two players on the court. You know, they, they seem to be doing something that really not many of any other nations are doing right now.
- [35:49]
B
It seems like they're doing some very good investments that are paying off and have been doing for a while. They have a lot of tournaments, they have a lot of momentum from what I can understand. I'm quite interested in how they support from a federation. They've changed the way they support. Instead of centralizing the national center, they let people do their own thing and then support that financially. And they have a very good system from the juniors and up. And it really seems like they're doing something really right in creating a long term sustainable funding system. And you mentioned Yannick Sinder, but they've also, haven't they won Davis cup like three times in a row or something like that. And
- [36:32]
A
as well.
- [36:33]
B
Yeah. And Koboli and, and Analdi are some players that I was gonna expect more of based on what I've seen in an Alti, particularly when he, I think he clinched the Davis cup for, for Italy three years ago or two years ago. And I thought he was a fantastic player and Coppoli as well. So for me it's, it's not fantastically surprising, but it is interesting to see that it's going so well and it kind of looks like it's going to keep producing well because they're doing something structurally and fundamentally right by the looks of it, to make success sustainable. And then from what I hear, a lot of the finances they get is based on the success of Sinner. So it certainly doesn't help hurt them that they have a guy like that leading the way.
- [37:17]
A
But also culturally, that's the one for me. We can talk about investment, we can talk about finance, we can talk about tournaments. But like they walk off the court, they're waiting for each other. There's a. They seem to have this team, they seem to have this team. Calv. Like what? Like that's, you know, like I always go, I always talk about this. Not that anyone needs to be congratulating me at the World Tour fight the, the, the WTF finals, but I saw, I saw all of the different British people the week that Gabby and Aaron won in, in Riyadh. And I saw them every day and not one of them ever said, well done. There was no. There's never a collective, there's never this collective community. And, and I don't know if you would have got it this this week, Cal for, you know, you'll be seeing lots of different British. Different British people, whether they're working in the media, whether they're working for the federation. But it. It's always something to me here. I think the British tennis culture, which I can talk about, there's almost been a jealousy over the years. I always thought the Australians had it pretty good A few years ago, I felt I'd go to certain tournaments and the Australians will be watching each other and there was quite a collective. I don't feel that as much anymore. But on it, the Italians just seem to just all be supporting each other. There seems to be this incredible culture. And I. It actually was one of our strap lines at the Academy, which was team environment, individual pathway, someone I really believe in. Like, I know it's an individual sport, but create a team environment and then you have individual pathways within that. And I feel like the Italians have nailed that.
- [38:56]
B
It's basically what we try to do in Denmark. That's exactly the thing we try to do.
- [39:01]
C
It's yes and no in that you're right, they are very close, but that it's a lot more natural, I think, than sort of putting a pathway and putting any sort of, you know, this is how we want to do it. What I know, because I know quite a few of the Italians relatively well through Fava and Bellelli and also know. Come to know Caboli quite well over the years because Henry actually played against him a couple of times in challenges in doubles and they're kind of quite friendly with each other, but it's sort of. I don't think you can create what they've done because the thing. What stands out, they're actually mates, they're actually best friends. Like Caboli's best friend is Berrettini and they grew up together playing Berettini's of. I think he's three or four years older, but there's a great clip that went round last year of them, like they're both trained at the same academy and sort of Caboli following Berrettini around when he's about four years younger than him. I think he's about. Berrettini is about 16 and he's 12 and they're very kind of just hanging around with each other. And he's quite a cool video. And when they won the Davis cup last year, I think it was an amazing video. When Caboli wins it. Berrettini and Kaboli were the two singles players. Berrettini's won his match. Then Caboli wins it, and Berrettini runs on. He's the first person on to go and hug him. And it was like, it's really touching that. Like, not only you've won it, but you've also won it with your best mate in the world. Like, that must be quite something. And I think that's different, I think, from creating a culture of people who know each other and get along with each other and. And can sort of, you know, you can tell them, this is how we operate, this is what we want to do. I don't think you can force people into being actual mates outside of tennis. And they all are. So, like I say, like, Kaboli and Berrettini are best. Each other's best mates. And Vava is. Is very close with. With Berettini as well. And Vava is also very close with Irani, obviously, who is close with Paolini. And then you have all these other sort of. Around them. Balelli's a little bit older than the rest of them. He kind of keeps himself to himself, but he's still friends with them. But I don't. I think it's very natural in that this group of players, male and female, grew up with each other, and they're. It's kind of like they're just very, very close outside of tennis. They go like, when it's. When it's the United Cup. Like, you see videos of them. They're all on the beach together. They socialize with each other. Other. And I think that that's. They socialize with each other out of choice in that they're. They're each other's best mates. And I think that's where you get that closeness as opposed to having a philosophy on. On it. I don't think the Italians have their own philosophy. I think they've just happened to have got a group of people who are each other's best friends in the world.
- [41:44]
B
There's a little bit of chicken and egg to it, because it also has to be an environment where that kind of. Of relationships can thrive. And I've played a lot in Italy and played some Liga matches, and it just seems like everybody knows everybody across every level. And you have a guy who's ranked a thousand, and he'll know a guy ranked 50 pretty well, and they all know each other. It's incredible.
- [42:09]
C
I think what I'm getting to with this lot is you've got quite a unique situation wherein you've got a group of people who are all around about the same age. I mean, they all get along with Sinna, but I don't think Sinna's as close with the rest of them as this group are. Like, you got that group of kind of Cabali, Berrettini, Vavasori, Pellegrino's in there who's kind of just breaking the top 100, Arnaldi, a couple more whose names pass me by. Nardi, I think, is mates with them all. And then you've got the two. Then you've got Paolini and Arani as well. And I think what you've got is this group of people who all happen to be around about the same age and who also are really, really good at tennis. And I think it's those things combined that you don't often get a group of sort of 10 people who are around the same age who are all mates and are all really good and are all coming through at the same time. And I think that that's where they've been. There's a. You know, it's kind of more natural, I think, than what we have in Britain. Like, you know, like, Britain, we have. You know, I know through Henry and Luke, they have friends who. They're people who they're really friendly with in tennis and, you know, their friends in 10. Like, Luke and Henry are kind of mates outside of tennis, but they have other people who they're friends with in tennis, but they. They don't really, you know, like Luke had said, we were about some asking. I think Louis asked Luke, who are your best mates, best friends in tennis? And he was like, well, you know, Henry's my mate outside of tennis. But then there are other people who, you know, Louis mentioned. He was like, I'm friends with them, but I don't really message them about anything other than tennis. And I think that's a kind of a thing in. In Britain. I don't think anyone dislikes each other in Britain. Whereas this Italian group, you know, I think they. They socialize with each other. They're each other's best. Best friends.
- [43:52]
A
Okay, I'm gonna throw something else out there, then. So is it an emotional thing? So, like, Italians are highly emotional, right? I've even gone to, like, the Italian. You know, if anyone's watching this on YouTube, you'll see what I've done there with my fingers. But there is that kind of strong emotion that they maybe don't mind. Like. Like Italians, like, they don't mind hugging each other. They don't mind probably kissing each other. You know, there's this. There's this closeness.
- [44:18]
C
Three of them have failed to finish the tournament for all intents and purposes.
- [44:21]
A
Yeah. But I'm moving away from the Italians. I actually want to move it to Brazilian culture as well. So. Because for me, the Brazilian culture, it's that similar thing. It's this. There's this closeness there. They're a bit more open with their emotions. There's like. And I had the absolute fortune of sitting with all of the Brazilians when Fonseca played Djokovic, which for me was match of the tournament. It was fifth set of the tournament. Incredible. And, and, And I want to throw this to you in a minute, Freddie, because I think we saw. We saw two things that day. We saw the. The. One of the next biggest stars in the game was born on the big stage. I know we've been talking about him for a while. He finally showed it in the biggest of moments. And I thought. And I think we also probably saw the last. The last match at that level, maybe at Roland Garros of arguably our greatest male. Male tennis player, Novak Djokovic. And he performed incredibly well as well. However, when I looked around, you've got. You've got the. You've got the Brazilian. The Brazilian, sorry, Fonseca's players box. And you add his parents who were highly emotional and involved, you know, which kind of wouldn't be deemed right probably in. In our culture. You. Then I looked around. I don't think there was a Brazilian tennis player. I didn't see him that stadium that night, but it was 9pm at night and. And quite a lot of them were still in the tournament. Now, that shows also an incredible closeness of. Of what they're doing. Why. Why it's like that, I don't know. I guess we can speculate till the cows come, come home, you know, but that wouldn't be the case. If Jack Draper is playing a match, a night match at the French Open against Novak Djokovic. You will not have all other British tennis players. I don't know about Denmark. I don't know. I would. But I would imagine there's very few countries as well. So I think that there is. That. There is that feeling as well with the Brazilians. That's my long winded way of saying, Freddie, how impressive was Ciao Fonseca this French Open? And did we finally, finally see what everyone's been talking about?
- [46:33]
B
I think there was a little bit of a momentum going for the Brits after the COVID break where the Brits had all those. Those tournaments at home. And it seemed like at the first few tournaments back that they actually did come out to support each other a little bit more than they used to. But so. So maybe it's also because that the. That the Brazilians, for being such a big country there, they haven't relatively got that many players, so. So they're quite supportive of each other. And. But yeah, to, to get to your point, it was pretty impressive. I mean, that last game, serving it out against Novak was. I think I don't insult him by saying that was pretty tight game to go down 30, 40, and then just came up with Ace Ace. So, I mean, he's dead. He's definitely not scared against the match against Casper as well. He just let it all fly. And maybe there's still a little bit to go because it didn't quite go his way against Mensik, but he's definitely getting closer and closer and you'd kind of fancy him against anybody in a given match, especially on clay court. Right. I don't think if he was playing Carlos or Senna, you would kind of keep an eye out for him and expect it to be tight. So it seems like he's finding his way. He's got some pretty solid people around him. He's fun to watch. And is he maybe the most supported guy in the world? It feels like it. I mean, he creates a certain hype and, and, and, and buzz around the crowd, as you witness.
- [48:03]
A
And I think, And I think that can go for him and against him, because I think it's also pissing off some of the other players, actually. I think the Brazilian crowd goes a bit over the top and we've now seen numerous players that have like, got in his face when they've beaten them, actually. And I think he's a lovely young man, but I think that's gonna. He's gonna carry the benefits of that, but also maybe a little bit of the. The downside as well.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah, maybe you don't want to give the. Give the opponents an extra chance to. To an extra motivation to beat you. But on the other hand, I think if you're Fonseca, you'll take the support. I mean, he certainly. I don't know if you guys were there, if you saw it, but when he played doubles in, in Rio, for example, and the support was insane and he was playing quite for them, a legend with Melo, and he was letting it rip and getting so excited, and I think he thrives of it. I think he's going to be better for it.
- [49:03]
A
I think his forehand is the most exciting shot in tennis right now.
- [49:07]
B
I hadn't thought about that, but could be. Yeah.
- [49:10]
A
It's the feeling I had. And it's the first time maybe where he's, he's managed his forehand well. I don't think he managed it so well against Mense. He went back to his old, old. He was playing too flat and too low, but almost like, you could almost feel the gasp of the stadium when the ball went to his forehand. Almost like a bit like. And I don't like talking about Man United, but a bit like probably Ryan Giggs in his prime. You know, when Ryan Giggs got the ball and you were like, the whole stadium would be like, whoa, what's he about to do? He's about to go down the left wing. He's about to take on the players. You know it. For me, it's had that sort of feeling, that sort of anticipation of like, it's, it's, he's about to let loose here, you know, for me, I think
- [49:53]
B
I told you about this, right? And the first time I saw him, I was, I was coaching a junior at French Open when he was there as a junior walking in the first morning and I was just watching people practice and I heard the sound from the court and had to stop and, and turn around and see what, what the hell is going on here. And he was a junior. And then he came as a junior to, to be a sparring partner or a six guy or whatever he was for the Brazilian Davis cup team. And I was almost thinking, I'm happy he's not in the team because it looked like he was tearing everybody up in practice and the way he was hitting the ball back then was, yeah, head turning, literally.
- [50:30]
A
And Calv, I know you love him and we've got this far, we've not mentioned him, but first time Grand Slam champion Alexander Zverev.
- [50:41]
C
I was texting in the podcast group earlier on and James, who host, said like, this is not a great match in terms of level. And I said that, yeah, but fortunately for Zverev, he's the best in the world. Maybe the best in the world currently, maybe the best ever at winning crap tennis matches. And he just has a way of, just as a way of winning him. And it's, he's, he's a, he's a really strange phenomenon. Zverev, like, even if we take apart that, you know, I, I don't think he's the most pleasant individual out there. And I don't Think I get much disagreement on that. But just look at him as a tennis player. He's just such an odd tennis player in that how many times I think, think through the years now and he's been around now for eight or nine years, how many times you ever seen him and thought, I'll tell you what, Zvera's playing well. Well, he just doesn't ever.
- [51:35]
A
Only when he's serving really well, maybe.
- [51:37]
C
No, but that's the thing. So, so, so James said that earlier and I said, yeah, but then that would be okay if he's like identity was a serve bot and he can serve exceptionally well. I mean what he's, what he does exceptionally wise. He serves at like 75 all the time first serves and that when you've got that serve and you can get in three out of four in, you're going to be tough to beat. But he's not really a serve bot. You know, I feel like he's, he's more than a serve bot. So you take that out and you know, he's in a lot of long rallies but he never ever seems to be playing that well. But, but does have a way of winning. Like he's kind of got this.
- [52:14]
B
And he also never seems to be playing really terrible either, I think to your point.
- [52:20]
C
No, he did. No, he doesn't given but I mean he's forehandy. Like he shanks two out of every five forehands that he hits until he
- [52:30]
A
cramps and then he hits his farm bloody well.
- [52:35]
B
And I think he actually hit his forehand better than he has been in this tournament in general.
- [52:39]
C
No, he has, he's on. But then again today in the final, I didn't think he did like until
- [52:43]
B
like he hit one, until he hit one forehand return on the break point in the third set. I think that was,
- [52:53]
C
I think then he's shocking stuff. He kind of knows he's got to but I, I just find him a really strange, really strange player. I mean even today he's made. He's. Bear in mind he's. He's hit I reckon, three of the worst volleys I've ever seen in a Grand Slam final today.
- [53:09]
A
Is that in the game that he got broken at three all?
- [53:11]
C
Yeah, I think there was, there was two in that game, I think.
- [53:14]
B
Right.
- [53:14]
A
Yeah. Although Caboli hit a couple of. Of shockers and overheads as well.
- [53:20]
C
So he was molly in the one on set point. That was a really bad one. Initially I thought it was a drop in concentration, I think then when I saw the replay. I think he just choked. You could see, you could see that the, the arm just collapsed. The arm just turned to jelly on it. But then he hit a great shot. The point.
- [53:37]
A
After Gabby said we need to invite him to some doubles practices, she, we were watching it together. She was like, oh, I think we need to get these guys into some of our doubles practices. Stuff that flip it.
- [53:47]
C
Yeah.
- [53:48]
A
Never seen so many overheads and volleys. Volleys missed. That was, that was his.
- [53:52]
B
My wife was saying the same. She's going, what's going on with these matches? She's not into 10. He's like, I did not.
- [53:58]
C
Well, the thing is though, as well is that I feel, and I do feel this about. I, I don't think, you know, I don't want to sound like negative about this. I actually, and I hope, you know, there's certain things to believe that it could change, especially with Fonseca coming and I think Kwame's coming as well. I actually don't think men's tennis is in a great spot at the minute. And for a few reasons that, I mean, my friend messaged me and my friend's a writer for the Guardian and he does the Guardian, the Guardian blog on the tennis. And he messaged, he messaged me a bit, asking him sort of, you know, what's going on here with the tactics and that kind of thing. And he said, what's Kabolly's like game plan today? And I said that this is where tennis is in such a strange spot at the minute in that all the players basically play exactly the same way. Like they're all ball striking baseliners. And I don't really know how much tactics is discussed anymore. Like, it feels like every match is just, they play from the baseline and one of them just hits the ball better. And like today, I was watching the match today, I was baffled that Caboli hit. I reckon he hit probably 65, 70% of his balls to Zverez backhand.
- [55:02]
B
I couldn't agree more. In general with everything you said and it.
- [55:06]
C
And I find that, that what worries me is this. The players are just the same. There's not a real load of variation in it and there isn't even many left handers. There's only Shelton, who's a left hander. So basically what we've got is all these right handed, relatively complete, you know, they're all pretty solid, clean ball strikers from the back of the, the court. None of them can really volley. Like, who would, who, who is the good volley is in the men's game now. I mean, Alcaraz is quite good. You know, when I say this, Fred, I think like, you know, around, you know, shoulder height, when they've hit a great forehand, I think, you know, they're all pretty competent on that, other than Zverev, who can't volley, but the rest of them, I feel like it's like they kind of all play the same. You know, their tactic is, is there anything interesting going on tactically in any of the matches with it? It just feels like think, you know, they just go out there and play their game and see if it's enough. And I think that's a little bit of a concern. I also don't think we're just not getting enough matches. Like, you know, an interesting thing, I read earlier on that this, these two on their way to the final of play, they played one top 10 player combined between them. You. You'd think, you would hope that in Slams in particular, we're just not getting enough of those. Those matches. I mean, there's various reasons for that in the Alcaraz and Sinner just chop everyone up. But even in this one now, we're just not getting those, those big matches. You know, I would like to have seen like a Rublev versus Verev in a quarterfinal or something like that, or, you know, Shelton against Kaboli in a semi or something. But we're not even. We're just not getting enough of that. There feels like. It feels like nobody between the r ranking of 4 and 20 has any level of consistency at the minute to be able.
- [57:01]
A
But what I think we've got, which I think is exciting, I think we've got Fonseca, I think we've got Mensik, I think we got Kiwami, I think we got these players that are, that are. That are also. And I think you said it Cal on a podcast, maybe it was our live podcast, but you said you hope one of the next gen Hodar, you know, win wins it. Because it's almost like if someone like Zverev wins, it's almost just like, yeah, well, yeah, well, he's won, but he once, once Alcaraz and Sinner are back, he's just going to lose to them again because he doesn't believe I stand by that.
- [57:36]
C
I don't think this moves the needle at all.
- [57:38]
A
No, I don't, but I. But I do think we are seeing. I think some of those young guns have got a bit of something about them, actually. And, And I think I Think. I think tennis is potentially in an exciting. Actually, I think that's where I'm hope.
- [57:54]
C
I'm hoping that is the case. But, you know, we're still probably a couple of years from that, though.
- [58:00]
A
I'm convinced on Fonseca now. Convinced. I'm convinced that he. He is gonna, he's gonna push Alcaraz Sinna over the next couple of years.
- [58:11]
C
I think he's going to be a very, very good player. I think he's going to be a top five player. I'm not certain he's going to be a top one or two.
- [58:19]
A
I think he's gonna win at least four Grand Slams.
- [58:23]
B
Tough call, but then again, at one point, the generation is gonna fall, and then he's gonna be mid-20s. It's tough to predict what's gonna happen,
- [58:30]
A
but I just saw sometimes, and look, we can all be wrong. I remember I was once. When was it that. But, but, but, but it's like there was a moment. There was. There was. I felt, I accepted, experienced a moment that night. There was like. And I remember Andy Murray, 2012, being, you know, lucky enough to sit in his box that night when he played Novak Djokovic, and he won the third set, 7, 6. And for me, there was this moment of belief of like, I can do it. And he didn't win that match, but then he went on and he won the Olympics and he won US Open that year. And, And I, and I really felt there was the moment there, that set, that fona. Fifth set against Novak Djokovic. For me, there was a moment of like, yes, yes, he's got it. He's got it. The belief system has got it now. He, he believes in it. Physically, he's got to maybe get a little bit, little bit stronger to be able to get himself through, through the Slams. But he, for me, he took it up two or three levels this Roland Garros. I really believe that. I think he went from there up to two or three levels in terms of what he did, you know, in terms of how he, he, he served, in terms of how he defended the backhand corner and was able to counterattack. Felt his movement was better. And his forehand is just an incredible shot. And I, and I just think. I think I'm really excited for what he's got and bringing. I don't really particularly get that excited over Mensic in terms of his type of tennis, but he's bloody good, I think. Men.
- [59:57]
B
But he was just so disappointing in his attitude in the semis. I thought, did you guys have any, any belief that he believed he could win?
- [60:05]
A
No, I think, but I also think he played too much tennis. I think it was a miracle that he did. Did you see him earlier on in the tournament? I mean he was 20. He had 20 minutes on the floor, couldn't get up.
- [60:15]
B
Yeah, but then he trolled. He, he, he routines. Fonsega.
- [60:20]
A
Yeah, well, he stepped. It was a great, it was a great end to the third set. I think these guys played too much tennis. I think what the taller tournament brought was just there was almost too much tennis happened for, for so many of them and they weren't quite ready. They weren't, they weren't quite ready for, for the, for the amount of tennis that that's needed to win a Grand Slam or to go, to go deeper. But I think Mentic, I think Mantek's the real deal as well.
- [60:44]
B
I'm yet to be convinced. What, again, what's the real deal? Yeah, give me top 10 for sure. I think that's, that's definitely going to happen. But what is the real. I mean it's a high ceiling, right? Top 10 is pretty, you're pretty much a deal if you make top 10, then you win Miami. How old was he when he won Miami?
- [61:03]
A
I think Mensik and Fonseca are Grand Slam winners.
- [61:06]
C
Kaylo, do you think Fonseca wins one of the next eight Grand Slams?
- [61:11]
A
I think he has a shot.
- [61:15]
B
Are you in the running to be a politician? It was pretty unambiguous question as I understood it. It was a multiple choice of yes and no.
- [61:24]
C
I'll let you think in a bit because I'm going to tell you. Why I ask is I, I have a thinking on this, that when those players break through those, those guys who are going to be at the very top in the same way that Djokovic did. Murray was a little bit different. Nadal wasn't, Federer wasn't. But they beat, they start beating those top players early. Like I think, for example, I think Murray won his first match against Federer. Nadal had. Nadal either won his first or second match against Federer. Djokovic had won a Slam. He won the 2007 Australian Open. They have these, it's all right, you know, having these matches where you're beating like you know, 40 year old Novak Djokovic and that kind of thing. But if that was one of those guys they'd started already beating or soon they'd be beating Federer and Nadal and you know, Djokovic, that kind of thing. And I worry that if these guys don't win one of the next eight, because that's another two years away. That's another two years. If they don't do it, then, then the scar tissue starts to come.
- [62:33]
A
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a fair point. I, I think, I think Fonseca will win a Grand Slam by the end of 2028. So.
- [62:40]
C
Yeah. So one of the next eight to 10, you're saying?
- [62:43]
A
Yeah, and I think he has to. I agree with you, by the way, Cal. I think he has to. If we're, if we're talking about him being. If he's. Unless he's going to be as Vera or a Medvedev, right. If we're talking about him being someone who is that multiple Grand Slam champion, who's. Then, then, then I think I, I agree. I think he has to. If he's someone that's going to be pushing Sinner and Alcaraz over the next few years, I would agree that in the next two, three years, I mean,
- [63:14]
C
how old is he now? Is he 19? Fonseca?
- [63:16]
A
I think he's probably turned 20. Has he?
- [63:19]
C
I don't think it's possible. And this is where the last generation of players struggle here, like, you know, City Pass and Rublev and Zverev to a degree and that kind of thing. You can't be getting to kind of 22, although 22, still, still young. You can't be getting to 22 having not won a slam and having like a 09 record against sinner and Alcaraz, because I don't think you recover from that.
- [63:44]
A
I think then you're in the 20 in August.
- [63:47]
C
I think then, then you're in the spiral of like, I don't know if you turn it round at that point.
- [63:54]
B
And I think to add to your point about the lack of tactics and stuff, I think also that the modern way, because they hit so hard and it's so much about emotional energy. I mean, the interaction between the box and the players now, it does my head in a little bit. It's too much in my opinion. And I think these young players should not. Should. Could help by getting their floor up a little bit so that they can cruise through some matches a little bit more. It seems like it's battles and it's world class tennis and it's screamers in the corner and it's fist pumps to the core, to the box and whatnot. Instead of give me some boring 3, 5 and twos or something where they're Cruising. You don't see the good tennis and then bring out the good tennis when they're really forced to bring it out, because I think it drains them. And I think maybe all that emotional energy he spent kind of. And lack of tactical awareness made him kind of run out of steam against Mensik. And I think the ceiling is not the problem. We've all seen that. But if you. I think if you want to win multiple Slams, the wind's got to be coming a little bit more automatic, and you got to be able to win a little bit easier when you don't bring your best stuff. And I think that's the issue with a lot of the young guys. And I think that's why Zverev is so consistent, why I think he was the. The overwhelming favorite to. To win this tournament after, besides the center and usually also Carlos, because he just has that high of a floor, and that is more important in many ways to compete at the Slams than the high ceiling, because these guys all have high ceilings. But it's about controlling that. I think that's going to be the key for the youngsters.
- [65:41]
A
Freddie, great point. 19 years old, Fonseca turns 20 in August. The women's champion is also.
- [65:52]
B
Can I just say one more thing also to that? I remember, I think it was. I think. I think it was Australia. Australia. Last year we talked about who was going to have a better career, Fonseca or Pericard. Look how quickly that got away from Pericard. And he's. It seems like he's got a mountain to climb to get back to where he was supposed to be. Huh?
- [66:10]
A
Nowhere near right now.
- [66:12]
B
Exactly. So it can go quick. I mean, he looked very promising, and we were kind of. I remember I was asked who was going to have the better career. Kind of thinking with the serve, blah, blah, blah. I think I ended up on Fonsega, But. But still, he was in. There was a legitimate talk about it, and now it's. It's. It looks like it's going to be tough. So there's so many things that could happen on the way. Right?
- [66:32]
A
Well, Pericard's not 19, so you're making my smooth transition much more difficult. But Fonseca is 19, and guess who else is 19. Calvin. Also the women's champion, who I picked. Did I pick her? I'm sure I saw on Instagram that I'd picked her anyway. Mirandre.
- [66:51]
B
You see your Instagram. Wow.
- [66:56]
A
And. And to be honest, she kind of. She kind of cruised. Right? It was kind Of. I know the draw opened it almost, you know, you're talking about, like, the dramas I always. I always felt with Mirandriva and I've. I've commentated a few of her matches and it's such a drama. So what is she. She's, like crying, she's shouting, She's. It's all happening. It's, you know, she wins a set easy, then she goes down 5 love. And. Whereas it just felt like she was pretty mature this whole. This whole event and just kind of just cruise. Cruise through Calv.
- [67:27]
C
Yeah, she did. I think she was helped by a lot of stuff as well. I mean, the match I was. I was looking forward to was. Was Kostyak and Andreeva, but Kostyak, you know, she couldn't really handled the day. I don't think she. She really struggled and then she was given a bit of a lifeline. She got back into it and then crazily, then just. I think she was a set number. She lost the first set easy, and then she was break down in the second set, got the break back, worked really hard to get the break back, and then just handed it straight back to Andreeva, just absolutely leathering four balls as hard as she could. That all went out and. And, you know, I think that was. I thought Kostya was going to win it at that point, well before she played Andreva, but, yeah, it didn't. It didn't happen. And Andreva kind of. She had a pretty easy run of it. She wasn't really challenged in terms of.
- [68:20]
A
She went first round, three and three, second round three, six, six, one, six one. Third round, six, four, six two. Last 16. Six, three, six, two. Quarterfinal, six love, six, three. Semi final six, one, six, three. Final six, three, six, two.
- [68:37]
C
No, she was the best player. There's no doubt she's the best player. I think it's good for. It's good for. For the game that she's. She's won. I think she's a, you know, she's a very good player and she's a star. She's compelling, she's interesting. And, you know, when she speaks, I think she gives really, really good interviews. She seems like a funny girl.
- [68:54]
A
She thanked herself.
- [68:56]
C
Yeah, thanks herself. She did. We've got this kind of. There's. I think what has been interesting is for the first time in a while in tennis and we've had a kind of like a little bit of a. There's been a little bit of a political debate going on, especially on the women's side with the Russian things and that kind of thing. It's a little bit of strange seeing, seeing how that's playing out. I think in the, that Kostiak was very aggressive. Kostyavan. And I'll let you pronounce the other girl's name, Kino. The other Ukrainian girl, Oli and Kova is it or.
- [69:31]
A
Okay, yeah, I'll let you have that.
- [69:34]
C
She sort of made some comments. I thought she made us a really good comment when she lost to Schneider, I think in the fourth round maybe. And she sort of said that, you know, Billie Jean King fought for like people to have sports spokespeople and role models. And she said like role models and, and speaking up is not just about we should be earning more money. It's actually about other things. There are bigger things in, in, in this world than just earning more money. And you know, and I think she was right in saying that it was a bit con. I found it a little bit concerning both when Andreva and Schneider were, were questioned on, on this stuff about Russia and the war in Ukraine. They both pretty much had the same answers. Well, almost exactly the same answers. And it looked like they'd been fed. This is what you're gonna say. And I found that a little bit worrying in that regard. And then Kostchuk raised it again. I don't think Kostiak went the right way of doing it. She went mega aggressive and didn't really get anywhere. But you know, I do think it's interesting that the women's game, there is some debate on that.
- [70:41]
A
More so than in the men's game, huh?
- [70:43]
C
No high profile Ukrainians and there's no Russians really that are getting, I mean Hatchinov, I never seen him interviewed. Rublev, same like he's not, he's not winning, he's not winning enough big matches to be getting interviewed. But yeah, I think it's more, I think it's more the Ukrainian women who are up there. What I find strange and I'm interested to know why, like they're, they're sort of PR people are not saying this because I know that Kostchuk came in with it. All the Ukrainian girls came in with that. You know, I don't know how those girls sleep at night when they, they're not willing to speak up when people are dying. People are getting bombed, children are dying and they can, they don't seem bothered. I don't know how they've managed to get through days. I don't know how they sleep and all that kind of thing and I think it would be more. What I don't get is why Kostric didn't say something like, look, I know why they're not speaking because they're scared. They're scared of what might happen in their home country to their own families if they speak too much about it. But I don't hold them responsible. I know that I would be scared as well. And I empathize and I empathize for them. I think she'd get more by saying that than just going on the full aggression of, of sort of name calling them those players.
- [72:03]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's, look, it's, it's very, it's, it's a challenging thing for, for us as, as grown men to, to talk on these things and we don't have a high profile, we don't have a platform to do that. You, you put a 19 year old girl there that, let's be honest, probably doesn't know much other than the tennis world, you know, out there. And, and, and absolutely, I'm sure she is completely afraid of, of saying anything. Probably isn't massively informed in her world that she lives, you know, she's, she's, she's traveling the world with like, like the rest of us in this kind of traveling circus. You know, she probably doesn't know a whole lot what's going on. But also like you say, what can she say? You know, what, what, what, what can Mira Andrea say that isn't going to have a potentially a negative effect on her family and her family's world?
- [72:56]
C
I have more sympathy with, I have more sympathy with, with Andreeva and Schneider or I have more empathy with them than I did with, I was quite critical of a lot of the American players in the, in the Australian openness still am where I thought that they just weren't interested in standing up for anything like they were questioned on. I think that was when the war in Iran maybe started and they were just like, oh, I'm not here to talk. I'm just focusing on my game game. And I was thinking now you, you know, they're not, there's no reason for them to be scared in America. They're just basically thinking, I don't want to lose any sponsors here. Whereas I think that in the Russian situation is, is quite a bit different. And I do empathize and I'm surprised and I think that they would. What I don't is I think that those Ukrainian players would get more traction if they said that and they kind of Throwing it back on, they're kind of throwing it back on those, the Russian girls. And I think that they would look a lot more human as well. I was really hoping that. And I get, listen, I'm not going to criticize Kostyuk whatsoever because it's a horrible situation that she's in as well. Her family still live in Kiev. But when I thought there was a split second, I thought at the end of the match where like Andreeva looked up and sort of was hoping that Koscuk, I think was going to shake her hand and there was kind of like maybe it was just me imagining it, but there looked to be like she looked up and there was a dish. Disappointment and I think it would just, just be more powerful if, if she went, look, I'm not holding against these girls. These are, these are 19 year old girls. I know why they're not talking. They, they're, they're scared because that's the way that that country operates. And I think that would be more power, more powerful message, to be honest.
- [74:38]
A
Yeah, I mean the, the, the message of love is, is a, is a more powerful message than the message of hate. Right. Yeah. You know, and that's, you know, if, maybe that maybe the platform could be used for that.
- [74:50]
C
But because apart from anything else, what, what's happening at the minute isn't working. It doesn't seem to be affecting the, you know, I think what they, what they hoped was that this would look bad on Russia and then that that would affect somehow stop what's happening. But they haven't been having their flags on for now for four years. The player, the other.
- [75:11]
A
No, everyone, everyone's numb to it all now. It's just whatever.
- [75:14]
C
Yeah. And I think that that's sad in itself as well. You know, I think that's not ideal that, you know, we just don't talk about anymore when it's still going on. But at the same time, I think
- [75:23]
A
maybe I'm talking about with it. With what, with what the sport's doing and with the flag.
- [75:27]
C
Yeah. I think maybe a different, a different tax would, would come in. But like I said, I don't know why it can't be like Costchucks. People can't be talking to her and say, look, maybe try this. This might be a better way of, of doing it.
- [75:40]
B
Also, don't underestimate the message that it brings back in Ukraine. You know, just internally they, sometimes it's also to speak to them and to show, you know, that it's not only outwards, but Also to send a message back home.
- [75:57]
A
Yeah.
- [75:58]
C
A little bit more nuance would help everyone, I think. But again, like I say, I was a bit dodgy that Schneider and Go on and Draver both had the exact same lines. And that just reeked of, you know, the word coming from the Russian government. This is what you're going to say if you're asked about it. And it was. It was both. When I'm out there playing, I'm only playing the ball. I'm not playing an opponent. I'm just trying to do what's good for my tennis and that kind of thing.
- [76:26]
A
We have to mention the finalist, Hoelenska.
- [76:30]
C
Yeah.
- [76:31]
A
I mean, what a, what a story. I mean, obviously, what if that closed
- [76:36]
B
dead would have been.
- [76:37]
A
That was, that was a serious, serious dark horse, you know, coming through, through qualifying. She got into qualifying as well. Sometimes we pick dark horses that don't even get into qualifying, but she actually got into. She actually got into the event. Yeah. Incredible. Really. And never previously beaten the top 50 player. She beat four on the way to the final. She's only the second qualifier in the Open era to reach a Grand Slam singles final after emiratakan of the 2021 US Open. The Roland Garrett's final was her first top 10 battle in professional tennis. I mean, it just. You go on and on. She ended 2023 ranked 349th in the world. And she climbs up to world number 21 on Monday, but will be in Wimbledon qualifying the following week unless All England club give her a wild card. These are the stories we like in tennis for anyone. And I think these are the stories that just show how close the level really is, you know, and I think we know it. You know, we know that a player ranked 130 in the world is absolutely capable of beating a player ranked 20 in the world. You know, sometimes they're kind of pushed as second class citizens. She can seriously play. She played with igaontech in the juniors. There's some nice videos come out of them. Playing at Aussie Open and kind of growing up together. Very, very skillful. Lefty. Maybe didn't quite show up in the
- [77:59]
B
final, but definitely did not see that one coming. Very good effort. We'll say she looked pretty composed in the semi finals though. Unfortunately I didn't get to watch much of the final. But the semi finals she looked pretty composed, as if she belonged there and she played well. I think it's a great story for everyone to show that everybody has their own individual path and there's no right or wrong way to do it. And if you keep plucking away, who knows what's going to fall your way? And I also like that she played a little bit unconventional and shows that there's also a different way to do it. Kind of like. Yeah, like what? Cal just said that a lot of it is big hitting. I think that's also a lot of the case on the women's side. But it was nice to see somebody who played very differently. And, yeah, a lot of. A lot of time for that story. So. So well done to her.
- [78:52]
A
I think the slowest average forehand speed in the whole of. The whole of the women's draw, I read.
- [78:57]
B
Yeah, there you go. And it was also very. I think I saw a stat that she was winning a lot of her points from defense, so she was obviously a good runner. And I mean, let's be honest, it doesn't seem like that game style is going to have longevity on the tour at that level. I would be surprised that after French Open next year, she's going to have a rank similar to where she is now. But I will be happy to be surprised if that's. If that's different. But nevertheless, it's a great story. And she's basically earned herself now a year of being at the best tournaments after having played mainly on the challenger circuit so far. And she seems like a lovely girl, Very composed, calm. Maybe she can keep it up. I just feel like that game style is going to be tough on the grass and the. And the North American hardcourts and the Asian hard court, so. Well, we'll see. Maybe she's adaptable and.
- [79:57]
A
And her fellow countrywoman, Calv, I guess, Viontech, she's changed cultures. She's tried different things, but she looks in a bad place. You know, for me, watching Cost, that match with Cost Duke, it was like. Like, who's the multiple Grand Slam champion in this match? You know, we Cost. You got this kind of different mindset. I know fell apart a little bit in the semis, but she's got this mindset of, like, ah, it doesn't matter how I do. I can handle it. She doesn't seem as attached to the results as she once was and used to get highly emotional on the court, whereas Eager looks miserable. She doesn't look right. She. She looks in. In quite a. Quite a dark place, really. I. Out there.
- [80:37]
C
Yeah, I mean, she's. She has no capacity at the minute to be able to withstand any pressure on her. You know, it's like the. The Nobody who's as good as she is should be losing as many sets as she does by six. One and six, love. It's incomprehensible to me that she keeps losing sets so comfortably. It's when she goes behind, she just can't settle herself at all. She can't rescue herself. And, you know, there's. I think there's. There's certain factors in that that I have opinions as to why that might be, but it's probably like we can't go into that now. And I. I think it's. Yeah, it's not a good place to be. I'm. I'm not. And I'm not sure I think she'll find her way back, but I'm not certain she will.
- [81:25]
A
It's that we can't fully go into that, probably, but it's independence versus dependency.
- [81:32]
C
Yeah.
- [81:32]
A
It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't feel that she. That she has any independence in terms of who she wants to be. Like, even like Mirandriva. And she talked about her sports psychologist and, you know, making a choice on who she wants to be. Who does she want to be on the court? You know, and I always think that that's. That is the player's choice, like that identity of who you want to be, how you want to act. Act, you know, what type of. It doesn't look to me that eager's really making any decisions of that regard. It doesn't. She's not in that headspace in any way. You know, and even the way you can see that she looks at the box con constantly. There's this. There is this dependency there, and. And she feels like she needs to break free and be Igus Fiontech, who she. Who she wants to be on the tennis court.
- [82:22]
C
Yeah, I'd agree 100. But with the situation and the people around her, I'm. I'm not sure that I see a pathway to that directly.
- [82:35]
A
And then. And then the last one we have to mention, Irina Sabalenka, she's never struggled with independence on the tennis court. Does our arena, you know, and I actually commentated the match against Osaka, and I thought, poor, she looks good. Serving beautifully, you know, look like she meant business. Woke up a couple of days later, the wind. The wind was winding pretty heavily. Chatrier has, as Calvin alluded to in the. In the men's doubles, you know, on those days where. Where those. I think the. The court does get extremely wet and those conditions get very heavy, there's a lot of clay On Chatrier in the wind. And she. I was watching that match and what set in? Five set and four one up. And then she was four three setting four three up. And she was going crazy at her box. And I was like, you know, it's easy to look from the outside, but it was like, look, you're setting four three up. You're doing all right here. And then she went five three up. And you thought, well, okay, now rein yourself back in. But she didn't. She just kept on that train, whatever. You know, she obviously felt uncomfortable. You know, she obviously, you know, in, in those conditions. I know she doesn't. She's quite outwardly and being open about not liking, liking to play in windy conditions. And then she lost 10 games in a row and we saw a meltdown that wouldn't look out of place at a junior tournament. Freddie.
- [84:05]
B
I think that will help the legacy of the last few generations of consistent winners a little bit by seeing how difficult it is to sustain this kind of quality day in and day out and keep going deep in these lamps, because it takes a toll. I think a little bit of what you talked about with Sinner might come into play here. And yeah, it might be windy, but it was windy up until a set in 4:1 as well. So if you can get that far, you could probably get it over the, the goal line as well. And, you know, if there's a little bit of stress, it doesn't take much to kind of trigger that. And then anything can be the reason why you, why you lose the plot a little bit. And that's why the sport is difficult. And I think like I said, for many years, players have made it look easy and it's not. It's very difficult. And I think also nowadays it might even be even more difficult with all the stuff that goes on outside the court. There's a lot of scrutiny. People know everything that's going on and these players are human. It's pretty clear that there was some. That there was lag, that she lacked a little bit of calmness in her competition frame of mind there. And that's what it's all about. That's why we laid them up. That's why we play the matches, and that's why. Yeah, that's why sports is difficult.
- [85:28]
A
Last little debate. Nothing to do with tennis players per se, other than Roland Garros is now the only Grand Slam in the world not using electronic line calling in Strasbourg the week before WTA. It's not, not a French thing because Strasbourg had electronic line Calling. The French Tennis Federation defended its decision by saying, we. It will continue to show off the excellence of French umpiring which is recognized across the world. I certainly, first hand as a coach, had quite a few and incidents that happened. In one of the matches, Evan King hit a volley. I swear down he was three feet from the net and he hit the volley and the, the ball then hit the net and that went over. It was seven, six. This. At the time, it was seven, six, four all in a. In a pretty, pretty tense match. And then 15 all. And he was called for touch. They said he touched the net. There was now nothing he could do about that. I mean, he was nowhere near the net. There was another big point where Gabby hit a great return, landed on the baseline, the. The opponent hit the ball back and her partner was about to knock the ball away. They called that ball out. Obviously it wasn't out. They came back and saw it. That seems to happen a lot. We saw in the final today, there was a serve that they showed on TV that even my eye, it was set point.
- [86:49]
B
I think it was the third set, third set point. We've gone from 40 love to 40, 30. And then that happened.
- [86:56]
A
Yeah, so. So it. We. It seemed to be happening a lot. Are we trusting that the friendship is great at their jobs and they don't need it, or is it. Is it time, Freddie, for. For Roland Garrus to. To get on. In line with. With the rest of the world?
- [87:13]
B
I'm. I'm always. I've always been of the belief that there's a little bit of. I don't know, with the, with the clay and the, the surface change, that it creates an anomaly. That might be that the Hawkeye isn't as credible on clay as is as it is on the other surfaces. However, there's also the human element that there's an element of error as well. And what it just does is that it takes. It takes subjectivity out of the equation. I think it helps every player to move on from that. But I think. I don't know about it, but I think this is all just comes down to a, To, To a clothing contract for the line umpires to wear for people to see. Right. I think that's basically what it is. Then whenever that contract's up, then I think we're gonna see the, the technology come into play.
- [88:02]
A
Cal.
- [88:02]
C
I mean, I think from what I'm told, there's a little bit more to it than that. I mean, the French have a very, very strong competition structure and not all the clubs can have electronic line calling, so they need umpires. And in order to have umpires for those tournaments, you need to offer them something else, which is the payday at Roland Garros. However, it is archaic, it's just silly now, but there's a lot. I don't think the French won't be pressured into it. There's a lot of stuff at this tournament that is crazy. And every time you raise anything, they don't care. They don't care about anyone's outside opinions at all. I spoke with a tournament director of another tournament, a big tournament, ran into him on the street and had a chat with him for about 20 minutes. Don't want to say it, don't want to get anyone into any trouble, but needless to say, he's a tournament director of a very big tournament. And he told me just. He said, in his words, I can't believe it's a major tournament, this one. There's so much stuff that is so far away from how any other major tournament deals with things. And he said that the root of it all is they do not take any feedback at all. They don't care for any feedback. You know the stuff about earlier on in the week with those advertising boards that a couple of players got injured on, you know, that stuff came in and their response was, we'll look at it, but. But we don't think there's any need to change anything. The court covers at the back of the court, which two players slipped on. I know Matej Pavic got a bad injury on it. He was told about it. Didn't care. I know on Jeanboin, which, for any listeners who don't know, is the main practice site, which is just across the street from Roland Garros. Lovely facility, really nice club, really enjoy being there. But on each of the courts, they have floodlights strangely positioned on the courts, where they're kind of like. They're not in the corner, they're at the side of the courts and you can run into them. And I know that it's been suggested by various people over the years, because some three people told me this this year they've said to them, look, you can't move the floodlights, but you have to put some padding on those floodlights because they're dangerous. People are going to run into them. And they said, they've been saying this for seven years, and every time they just get a response of, we don't think there's a problem. And that sums the tournament up. You know, every year, every year the food is notoriously, by far the worst of any major tournament.
- [90:38]
B
I can't believe it. I literally can't. Every time I go I'm thinking, am I being too harsh?
- [90:44]
C
Nothing changes. The same menu.
- [90:48]
A
I had a classic where, so I had three, three different teams in the event. So you, as you guys know, but, but you go and you speak to the ATP WTA and also the, the referee's office and you fill out a form to let them know that, you know, I'm coaching these teams and if you could, if you could consider that when you're doing the schedule and the first round, the first round of the doubles runs across three days and, and all of my pairs are playing other doubles teams, so there's no singles players involved. So there's no, you know, obviously that can sometimes be a little bit of jeopardy in terms of the schedule. And the schedule comes out on the Wednesday and all three of my pairs are playing 11am on Wednesday morning. So, so anyway, I don't say any further. You know, I've got, that's whatever. It's just the, the players will all work out that they don't even, they don't need me, which is probably my bigger concern. You know, at least I can pretend that they need me if I'm there. And so I go and speak to them afterwards and they just went, ah, we try, but the computer, we can't do anything about the computer. I said, what you mean the computer? They said, ah, we put the information in the computer and the computer does the schedule. We try.
- [92:09]
C
Yeah, they, they don't. That's the response all the time. We don't, it was too, it was too good.
- [92:17]
B
We don't care just to add to the food thing. Just because we're not, it's not like real first world problems here. They charge a lot of money for that food.
- [92:25]
C
That's crazy. It's crazy.
- [92:27]
B
It's not just that it's low quality and these are for players who have to compete at the Slams. They charge a lot of money for it.
- [92:34]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. It's absolutely wild. And also like little things like they won't open the restaurant before 11:00am you know, Henry and Harry's match yesterday are playing a Grand Slam final yesterday at 11am and they need some food and you really have to argue with them on it. And you have to get basically the ATP supervisor to come down and go, you need to come, you need to produce, you need to cook. Them some rice.
- [93:00]
B
Like, that's absolutely next level. The thing with the restaurant that starts at 11 and matches start at 11, it's. It's. It's insane.
- [93:07]
C
It's absolutely wild. And it's not like, you know, the other Slams, they have breakfast done on a morning. I go into Australia, they've got a full breakfast menu on Wimbledon, the same French Open. No, there's no food whatsoever. We open, we start serving food at 11.
- [93:21]
A
You got some candy. The candy shop was over. Dangerous, that candy shop. Guys, you've. You've been amazing as always with your time. We. We're in grass court season. Very quickly, give me one story for us to look forward to as we move while we're already in the grass court season, which seems a bit wild, but what's one story line for us to look out for?
- [93:44]
C
It's going to be for me, who's. Who's sin are going to play in
- [93:47]
B
the final at Wimbledon, Serena's comeback.
- [93:50]
C
I'm not getting involved in that nonsense.
- [93:53]
B
Yeah, I, I don't disagree, but it's got to be a big story, however way you want to put it.
- [93:58]
C
I find it a remarkable situation that no one is, like, commenting that she's, what, 45, hasn't played for four years and is just coming back. And I'm told, I'm told with good authority that she's basically been paid by the. What is it, Ozempic company that she gets sponsored by. They've paid her to come back a phenomenal amount of money. Money to basically come back and promote their product. Yeah.
- [94:29]
A
Does that mean we're all going to be skinny soon? Not with. Not with the sweet shop at Paris. I tell you.
- [94:34]
C
I mean, what. What cracks me up with Serena is the amount of lying she does. And no one comments on anything. So she comes back on the doping register. When you come back on the doping register, that's. She's coming back at that point, because there's no point in going back on the doping register unless you're going to play tennis again. She goes back to the doping register and she gets asked, are you coming back? Don't be silly. I'm not coming back. Guys, stop asking silly questions. I'm not coming back. And then she's back and then everybody knows her intention is to play singles. And today in her press conference, which apparently she turned up for a press conference three hours late today on her first press conference back, and people are asking about. They're asking about singles and she go, it's not on my radar at the minute. I've no intention of playing singles. Singles. Everybody around her knows she's planning on playing singles. So the lying all the time.
- [95:25]
B
Yeah.
- [95:26]
A
I thought you were going to get involved. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. As we talked about at the start, lots to discuss and I'm sure there's lots more that we could have talked about because it was quite an incredible two weeks in Paris or three weeks weeks, you know, with people coming through the qualifying event as well. We didn't even discuss the heat, you know how hot that first week was to. To then the, the more French like Paris like weather in the second week. But yeah, it's just that the drama that these, that these major championships bring us. We're very lucky to be involved in this incredible sport and already here we are. We're. I'm here in London just outside of Queen's Club, not so far away as. As that gets underway. The qualifyings happened this weekend. My players Gabby Dabrowski and Louisa Stefani, they'll start their doubles campaign on Tuesday or Wednesday as the same day that maybe Serena Williams is making her much anticipated comeback. Not anticipated by Calvin but by everybody else. I think people are anticipating that one. And and then we will have a tog and Bosch stut. We've got all Ilkley, all of these different places where you can see grass court tennis and before you know it we'll be chatting about SW19 and the Wimbledon that we all know is gonna is gonna deliver as it always does. I hope that the rain stays away. The the forecast is not so good in London this week. We will aim to be back with a couple of guests before we bring you the pre preview to get some of those stories out there over the next couple of weeks. But until next time, I'm Dan Keenan and we are control the controllables.