← Control the Controllables
Control the Controllables
From Louisiana to the ATP Finals: A Tennis Family’s Journey with Christian Harrison
01:32:31
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- [00:00]
A
So as a former professional tennis player loosely and now a professional coach working on tour, one thing that I see constantly, even at the very highest level of the game is players working incredibly hard, but not always smart, not always in the most structured of ways. Now there's so much information around strength and conditioning that it can become a little bit overwhelming for people. You know, players are just adding more hours, more sessions, more volume when what they really need, they need clarity. And I've seen technically excellent players out there plateau in their tennis not because of their skill level, but because their physical foundations weren't strong enough to support their game and their talent. That's why for me, tennis athlete is the platform that sets the standard. It provides a clear, structured approach to strength and conditioning. Every program is age appropriate, it's research informed and it's delivered by SC coaches with proven track records of long term results. It's the platform that I trust when it comes to physical development. And if you're ready to take your development seriously, head over to sototenis.com tennisathlete that's sototenis.com SL Tennis Athlete because physical preparation is one of the biggest controllables that you have. Welcome to episode 272 of Controller Controllables. And today's guest is Christian Harrison. Christian comes from a big tennis family. You will know his brother, ryan Harrison, the 2017 French Open doubles winner and former top 40 player in the world. And his dad Pat has coached many players over the years at the famous IMG Tennis Academy in Florida. Now, Christian has had a year that I think all of us in the tennis world are a little bit in awe of. You know, himself and Evan King have come together playing the challengers at the start of the year have made their way all the way to the ATP finals in Turin. He's a delightful young man. I loved having the opportunity to talk to him and I know you guys will too. Pass you over to Christian Harrison. So, Christian Harrison, a big welcome to control the controllables. How are you doing?
- [02:37]
B
Doing great. Happy to be on. Thanks for having me and looking forward to the talk.
- [02:41]
A
What a pleasure to have you on, Christian. And a big well done on a fantastic 2025, you know, making making year end final berata for fun in Turin is a nice way to end the year.
- [02:56]
B
Oh, it was, it was crazy. You know, obviously started the year, you know, where the rankings were at. You know, you don't even have a set partner going into, you know, this time last year it's just about getting in a Tournament. So then to achieve a milestone like that, you know, it feels surreal. But then at the same time, from the competitor side, you're always looking, you know, how can you build on it?
- [03:16]
A
Absolutely. And do you know what? It's a funny one, because when I was with Mike, Mike Venus and Nicola Mektic at the start of the year in Auckland, obviously they were due to play you in the final with Rajiv, you know, and obviously your ranking was down at about 85, I believe, at the time. Yeah. And not many people will know this, but Rajiv pulled out of the final.
- [03:37]
B
Yeah.
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A
But for the center court crowd, you guys played a set, a practice set. Yep. A demo exhibition match. And you played with a young kid from New Zealand, a decent player, but not at the level of you boys. And I remember watching thinking, either my boys aren't playing great here, or this, this kid's bloody good. I remember, like, you just rocketing balls back. And actually, I blame you for the. That partnership, the Mechtic Venus partnership, because. Because actually, like, they won the tournament, but they came off losing the exhibition set. Seven, six. So you and some unknown New Zealand kids. And I don't think it ended up being the best preparation going into Australia and Open, which was then not the best preparation going into the rest of the. Yeah, little did I know it was actually down to your quality at that time, because I saw that the rest of the year as well.
- [04:31]
B
No, I mean, Michael was like my older brother. So I just. I was honestly just trying to just hit him with any kind of forehand or backhand I could. I could rock it at. And it was hot, so the balls were moving. But we had. It was an Oklahoma State Cowboy I was playing with. And it was fun. We were playing great that day, but it was fun to do the exhibition. But, yeah, you know, for me, it started there, you know, because Raj and I were able to make the finals. And then that actually allowed my ranking to go up to, you know, get a partner that was around the same ranking as mine. And, you know, Evan, I guess, became available at that time, and I knew that he had a lot of game, so then I was able to jump on that as soon as he was available.
- [05:11]
A
Well, look, we'll jump into a little bit more of this year after. But where I want to start, Christian, actually is 198 in singles, career high 15 in doubles. That number's important. We might get to that number also later in the podcast. The. The question everyone wants to know who makes more money. The guy, the singles player at 198 or the doubles guy at 15?
- [05:33]
B
Yeah, doubles for sure. You know, doubles I was at least from. But it's different for me, though. I don't. Because when I was 198, prize money was, you know, okay, was a little lower than at times. And it just. At 198. Also, it depends on, did you get into the Slams? Did you win your matches at the Slams? Did you get your. All your points from the challengers? You know, because a couple times I had, you know, qualified at Slams and then those prize moneys went off and then made a bit more. I got one of the years, had qualified one round at Wimbledon, so then good paycheck from that one. But that was a year they didn't have ranking points. Okay, so then, you know, so they didn't even get to get like any benefit from that. But yeah, for me now, the stability that I've been able to provide for myself at 15, I would have to say 100%.
- [06:25]
A
And in terms of which one's more fun, is it more fun being a doubles player playing the biggest events in the world or a singles player playing maybe the slightly, slightly lower level event?
- [06:37]
B
Doubles, for sure. I mean, it's getting to the bigger tournaments. I think that's the goal. You know, however you get there, playing those tournaments and just being there, you know, on the biggest stages and playing, you know, for me, I would, I would take it every day of the week, which is why I made the switch into doubles and started doing that.
- [06:56]
A
So there's a theme here. I'm going to stay on this for a little bit longer because I've got a couple more things. And the next question I want to ask on that is, is around. And I guess it's a little twofold. When I say which one is viewed as more successful, I'm talking about almost how the, the tennis world would view it. But then I'd also like to ask that from how you would view it and has that changed? Would you have viewed that differently when you were playing singles to now, the fact that you're playing doubles in terms of successful?
- [07:28]
B
Yeah. No. So there's, there's sometimes, I guess a bit of, like, dilemma on it, rivalry. But obviously where you're at in doubles being 15 compared to, you know, 198, the recognition that I'm getting just from casual tennis fans, friends, people around, you know, my area, the clubs, when you go to, obviously being 15 in doubles carries a lot more weight even compared to 198. And singles just for me, even growing up, you know, we were always taught, my dad always had us play singles and doubles. So you would always put pride into both, you know. And I think just from the last, you know, few years or so, there's just, I wouldn't say a stigma, but there's just like a rivalry on, you know, should you try to make it in doubles or singles, you know, and longer and. Because sometimes the so called double specialist, I think sometimes that's where, I don't know, players have a hard time with sometimes. But I think that's just more that all sorts of different kind of player, you know, players are just wanting more prize money at the end of the day. So then it becomes just something that it's just taken out on, you know, like on so called doubles players and double specialists. I don't take it as a personal attack because I think that just growing up being a singles player at first where you, you know, were younger, you had, you know, ability in game, my brother achieved so much. But I don't think there's ever been, you know, a time where you look down upon guys playing doubles. I sometimes just think that that's frustrations from other areas. That's just an easy way to vent it, that players are just wanting more. Yeah, that's how I look at it.
- [09:04]
A
And in terms of obviously you'll get. I don't want to jump in that too much. It's been spoken about a lot. We've spoken about a lot on the podcast. Yeah, I don't want to bring the negatives too much, but you do get your boob lick. So you get these comments that are made. But I guess just from like a professional standpoint of, you know, and anyone that's seen you around the, the events, you're the ul ultimate professional. You know, you're always, you're on the practice court, you're taking care of your physical, you're absolutely putting the work in is there sometimes I think there's a sense that people think it's easier to maintain that level of being a top 20 doubles player than it is, let's say, to be a top 200 singles player. Would you say that's accurate? What's your take on that in terms of kind of the work work that goes in around that from a physical standpoint, but also I guess from a match preparation standpoint, a watch and film standp to a number of hours on the court. All. All of those pieces of the puzzle.
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B
Yeah, no, I wouldn't say that it's easier to maintain because there's still, you know, players that are trying to now take your spot even in doubles. Like there's, there's a lot of guys I know they're top 100, top 200 singles, you know, and they, they, they have their little routine that can maintain. And I don't always think that their routine is more than what other doubles guys or double specialists, so called are doing. There's less movement that goes on into the matches. But, you know, nowadays I feel like there's so many more guys specializing and playing doubles that are playing it the right way that, you know the skills that go into mastering it. You got to really be doing it every day. Because there is fewer spots in doubles, like in terms of just how their ranking is required to qualify for tournaments that, you know, that you got to make sure that you're, you're staying sharp enough and you know, whether it's the top of singles or top of doubles, there's always going to be some guys that just have the ability, just because they've done so much to get themselves that good that then they know that when they can take off and maybe do a little bit of less and maintain their game. But I find it's pretty similar on, on both sides of the tour.
- [11:09]
A
I always think the word humility is very important for all tennis players. And you know, we take like an Austin Krychek, who, you know is a good dude, puts the work in. He was world number one and then all of a sudden, 10, 12 months later, he's almost outside the top hundred. Yeah, Lamin's, you know, he's dropped out. You know, he's gone from being kind of a number 10 in the world, number 15 in the world, whatever it might be, to, to being 130, you know, still putting, still putting the work in. I know his is a little bit more injury related. That spot's not there forever, right?
- [11:43]
B
No, not at all. That's why I think players are aware that there's a lot of guys that are, that are, that are there playing. There's no easy matches and it's just the right promotion. You know, there's going to be negative stuff here and there, but I honestly, to simplify it, I think it's just players want more from a single side. They feel like they have the most weight on it. You know, it's, you know, shown and televised more and they're just looking for ways to try to get more. So then sometimes it's just taken out on in different areas, so I'm now
- [12:15]
A
going to go to where I normally start, Christian. So I normally start with, with my guest on, on their, I guess that their journey into tennis, you know, how, how it gets into, into your blood. There's, there's a lot of common stories. There's common stories of my parents, a coach, you might know that one. You know, I, I live near a tennis court. You know, I live near a tennis club. You know, you come from, from quite a famous tennis family. You know, your dad, Pat, you know, is, is very well known and has worked with many, many players over the years. I haven't had the privilege of actually spending time with him, but I've heard nothing but amazing things about your dad. Your, your older brother Ryan is, you know, Ryan Harrison, who has been top 40 in the world in singles, had a, had a fantastic playing career. Certainly the Brits out there will be hearing them on Sky Sports over the, over the last few months as well. And then also your played to play to a good level as well. So take us back Louisiana. And that's a big connection of ours. We've just learned that your financial advisor was my old doubles partner at lsu, you know, Louisiana, Shreveport, Louisiana, go back to that time. Not, not really a hotbed of tennis. Louisiana. You know, how were your early years? You know, how did that tennis, tennis bug start for you?
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B
When I was growing up playing, it seemed like finding an academy once you got to a certain level was like the way that most players who were going to be serious about their game were doing. You know, my dad obviously taught, played, so I was lucky that you could grow up around it, develop a passion just from literally going to work with him. He was a coach, you know, so just grew up going to the courts with him. And then once we, you know, I was 10, Ryan was a couple years ahead, 12. You know, you're doing well at national tournaments, you get offers from academies. It seemed like it back back then when, when we were younger. This is 2004, you know, there was a handful of academies that were starting to open up. You know, everybody knew Bolletary ever. John Newcombs was the one that was in Texas that just happened to, you know, approach. My dad knew them. One of the guys that was a director at the academy and once we just felt like we needed more players, you know, that was when my family decided to, you know, relocate to Texas. And the years kind of go by quick, you know, once you start playing it, you know, and it seems like you kind of grow up and that was just, yeah, literally how we just, we went from place to place and then just always loved it. So then just. I was lucky that I always had a good support system, you know, and family that was involved. It's hard. You know, tennis is a very tough sport if you don't have a parent or someone close to you that's there with you. Especially, you know, if you don't have the financial backing to pay for coaching and stuff because it can be very expensive. I think that's why, you know, a lot of, a lot of the players who are pros had someone that was a parent, family member, close friend that was a driving factor to their success.
- [15:19]
A
How important was it to when you look back now that the family stuck together? Because I think that's one thing we see a lot. I've got, got, I've got a tennis academy in Spain and I often get asked that question by parents, like, is it better that we come or is it better? And I always say absolutely, the more normal you can have away from the tennis court, the, the better. But obviously not all families can, can move, move in that way. So a lot of people, so, so how. Because you, you've always struck me as someone and I've got to know you better the last 12 months. Someone who's very much got your head screwed on very, you know, in where's a lot of tennis players can be, you know, live the, have these kind of wild, wild minds maybe. How, how much do you attribute that to the fact that the family was able to kind of move together and stick together?
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B
A hundred percent. You know, like obviously if, if you can balance that out. I don't advise anyone to go away from, from their family. Like I think sometimes that's the mindset. I'll hear from some like random coaches and like people in the sport that I just think is just misguided, I think trying to get, you know, because, because if you're a coach and your family's going to be involved, you know, they make just as much sacrifices as the player does through the years and they take it as emotionally. You know, sometimes I think that's frowned upon, but I don't agree with it. You know, you're going to care about your family members and tennis is a tough sport that it's year round so you're just forced to do it even on the days that you don't want to do it. So I think sometimes when players are, you know, struggling emotionally, which is just going to happen in this sport, it's just Kind of, you know, oh, I was forced to do it, or, you know, but you're. Sometimes I think you're, you're just forced to do things. But I still believe that the passion is always there for those players. Otherwise, they just wouldn't have been able to put the time to get as good as they were, you know, if they weren't enjoying it for those days. And then the only time, though, is I think sometimes it can be a negative, and that's up to the people to find their balances. It's very easy to emotionally vent, and it's easier to do that when your family is there because those are the ones you vent to. So then when they're your coach or somebody that's close to you, I think it can negatively impact the player's development because you spend so much time and frustration because you've just gotten, you know, to where you almost vent too much. So I would say that's the toughest, like, thing to navigate. But you always got to have, you know, especially if, if your family's close and involved and, you know, like that it's, it's going to be a positive. And obviously would never recommend people getting away from their family just to say, oh, you need that to be successful, or once you turn 16 or 17, you know, you're at those teenage years and, you know, get away from your parents because that's when you're going to fight with them. I just think that that's just misguided.
- [18:11]
A
And was your. As your dad coached you all the way through?
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B
Yeah, 100%. Like, I've had other people here and there that will travel, because he doesn't always travel, you know, but for me, I mean, I would have just given from my background, I spent so much time just away from the sport with various injuries. So then for me to just have a support system and somebody close to you like that that, you know is always there when you need, based on certain days, I would have never been able to financially provide. And, you know, so then for me, having that, it's, you know, you'll see players sometimes complain that their parents, their coach, but then when they sit there that they don't really realize the financial cost of things because you've never really had to do that, then you realize that, okay, like, I got it pretty, pretty good. I need to stop complaining. It's okay to vent. But, like, you get used to venting almost too much.
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A
And how did you, how did you guys navigate those junior years, kind of those adolescent years?
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B
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think the hardest thing about it at that time, when you're, like, younger and you're trying to, like, do it, is the. The outside voices of people in the sport that are always saying that that would never work and just giving their opinion on it. And anytime you, like, have like a fight or an argument with your dad or something, it's okay. Here it goes again. You know, this is why it doesn't work. So then that stuff, I think, can sometimes play with players. I mean, our thing is, is, you know, you just try to forgive a lot. You're both going to make mistakes as you get older. I mean, Ryan was two years older than me. Like, he had other people coaching him as. As, you know, he was 18, 19, 20, you know, so then just because it was just, yeah, like I said, it was sometimes just battling with dad and coach and then sometimes need new voices here and there. And then also I think some of it's just outside influence of listening to, you know, people that don't always know not to say that's what happened there. But I see that happen to, like, a lot of other players, I would say. And then I think sometimes it's okay to be stubborn and just, you know, your parents are going to be the ones that are there for you no matter what. There's. There's a lot of great coaches out there who are like that, but there's also a lot of really bad ones who are just there passing the time. And then. So then when you're really passionate about the sport, you know, you can spot that pretty quickly. And it's also really tough to find good coaches who the players really trust. So I think now I see so many people where the traveling schedule is tough, and for me, you know, you see players struggling. I think it's because they. Maybe part of. It's just, you know, finding like a good support team. It's really tough to find that with somebody that you're traveling with all the time, that you're paying, you know, and then, you know, because there's a lot of coaches that I find that players just have a hard time connecting with, that have been there with them, you know, the whole time, where they feel like, okay, like, if I wasn't doing well or doing this, like, would they have my back? Sort of, sort of energy. And I think that, you know, I think that, you know, your parents are always going to have that. That you. That, you know, even if they're making mistakes themselves. So I think that doesn't always get
- [21:25]
A
Talked about of what makes a great coach for you.
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B
For me, it's just somebody that will put the player first. You know, obviously, it's. When you're on the road, you put the player first because obviously, emotionally, there's a lot of stress that's going on that the player is feeling. So then the player has to feel okay about being a little bit selfish, you know, sometimes. For me, it's not always about the forehands and the backhands. It's somebody that's just, honestly just wakes up with a smile on their face and just loves what they're doing. Isn't there to just, you know, pass time almost and just, you know, get there to enjoy? You know, you can find that balance between the player and the coach. You know, everybody's different in what they need, but I think for the coach, it's understanding the player that they're. That they're with and then just making sure that, you know, that the player is taken care of with what they're looking for each day. You know, a lot of, like, for me, mine is just, I like to practice, so my needs are just, you know, it doesn't matter if I feel like if somebody's telling me wrong things on forehands, backhands, volleys. It's just, you know, let's go to the course with a smile and enjoy just being intense and practicing. You know, like, I love playing somebody else. It might be, you know, what they need, you know, an hour and a half, but making sure that the player is engaged and you're. And you're practicing with intent to improve as opposed to just saying that we're going to do it, and it sounds easier said than done, but just getting out on the court and going, you know what, like, hey, like, let's, let's warm up and then let's. Let, let. Let's improve something today. You know, like, let's. Let's work and let's make some mistakes and be okay with, you know, making some mistakes and practicing some stuff that we're not good at. You know, just instilling that in the players and having maybe just a coach that really reinforces that behavior. And then I think that as a player, you. You can really trust the person that you're with because you feel like they're taking it as emotional. They. They care as much as you do. So then the days that it's not going well, you know, you can really. Where you need guidance and you need somebody to listen to. I feel like it's Just so easy to just be like, man, this person's there with me. And they're really trying their best, just like I am. I trust their opinion from the outside, from what we're trying to do, from the conversations that we've had. They've listened to what I've had to say. They know how I'm thinking and feeling. So now I trust their input back and forth. And I feel like that's just how a great player, coach relationship bonds to where then, you know, then it's just like. Like, for me, yeah, I think that's like, just very important.
- [23:54]
A
But do you think, Christian, in terms of what you're seeing there.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which I think you've described very well. That's a traveling coach with a pro player. How much do you think the skill set is different from a coach that's needed on the tour with a player to. To what. How. What's needed. What's needed from a coach in those kind of informative years, growing up as a junior and. And I guess my take on that is where. Why it is quite difficult that we don't see that many stories of a coach sticking with a player all the way through that journey, because maybe the skill set shifts as you go into different stages.
- [24:35]
B
Yeah, I feel like the skill sets, the technical thing, I. Honestly, for me, I think technique is very overrated from what I've come to know. I think technique change has changed with generations. You know, I was actually on the court thinking about that yesterday, and I'm like, there's so many pros now that are playing with technique and the way that they move and hit open stance, backhands and, you know, just move around the court, their. Their forehands are coming out this way. Like when we were younger, and coaches would say, oh, you can't. You have to play with your racket face open. You know, if you turn it out, you're going to be losing time. You can't, you know, step out this way and do certain shots. Like, obviously, you got to learn the right, you know, skill, the technique a little bit. But I think just. Honestly, just practicing with intent to do things. I guess, like you said that that's more on the coaching side for me, the development and the skill set, that stuff that is developed, you know, from when players maybe start playing that are on tour at like 8 years old, you know, 8 to 12 to 13, 14. By the time they're 14, they start catching things a little bit easier. If you tell them a technical adjustment, you know, on the volley to shorten up, it's a little bit easier for them to grasp those things, you know, that you shouldn't have to just sit there and tell them every day for three months, like, hey, this is how you need to hit a volley and, like, shorten up. I think a lot of times, like, their volley might not be perfect, but if they're just, you know, doing it and getting, like, the little cues and things like that, then. Then they start to get it, you know, like, they. By that time, they have the skill set to get it. So, yeah, I think, yeah. But for me, I'm like, there's no one way to do technique to do all these different shots that we sometimes, like, instill that you have to do. But sometimes I'm like. And I think, like, I've spent a lot of time, like, trying to work on a certain technique throughout my life that tons of pros are doing now that they've just, you know, proven that it didn't have to be that way. But also from a coaching standpoint, it's understanding, like, when's the game changing and when are some of these certain things on how we were taught? Like, how important is it or how, like. Because then sometimes I feel like I've held myself back by not doing what's coming natural to. You know, sometimes that's also very important. Like, if somebody's not, you know, if they're doing something well, but it's not necessarily, like, the right technical way to do it. I would say maybe don't spend so much time changing it. That's probably the simplest way to put it.
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A
You know, the way I always think of that is stylistic versus functional.
- [27:05]
B
Yeah.
- [27:05]
A
And. And I think as. As coaches, especially people that coach where it's. We almost coaches that aren't in the tournament life, that aren't traveling to tournaments, it's almost like coaching becomes the sport or hitting forehands becomes the sport.
- [27:22]
B
Yeah.
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A
It's like they can then obsess over a certain style.
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B
Yeah.
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A
It has to look in this very stylistic way, but obviously there's. There's certain functional you want to make sure kids at younger ages have that aren't going to hold them back, but allow that authentic style and natural way that the player has. And I think that's the. That's the trick, really.
- [27:45]
B
Yeah. It's like if you watch how Medvedev's technique happens, and you're like, you know, what if he would have spent all this hours trying to, like, get that out of, like, how he could have wasted A lot of time, maybe changing that, that could have hurt him, but then it's. It might be different. If it comes to a time where somebody, like, has been successful and then all of a sudden they feel like they're not playing as good as they once were, then it's like, okay, like, I feel like I've been better. Now's the time that you open up into changing something. Then. Then you might look at changing technique or making, like, an adjustment to something because you feel like it's become, like, maybe a hole in your game at that point. But if something's, like, not necessarily a hole at that time, then sometimes you can throw yourself out of whack by trying to.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Make too many adjustments with what's been said to be right or. Or wrong on how to play well.
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A
Like Alcaraz, I think Alcaraz. I don't know if it's been talked about or if this is factual, but it looks to me like Alcaraz made a bit of a shift technically on his backhand last year to be a little bit kind of straighter back a bit early. You know, not quite as high, to almost be able to maybe deal with the faster ball and be able to get. Get through it a little bit, but there for a very specific reason, to function in the way that he wants the. To function. It doesn't necessarily look better or, you know, it's not. It's not a style thing. It's. It's very much that he. He wants to do. And I know same Holger Runa on his forehand made a bit of a shift because he. He was. And. And that all links into the data that these players are getting. Right. You know, you're losing the forehand to forehand battle against Casper Rude or you against these guys. You know, we've got to do something now to be able to repeat with quality, to be able to do it. So these players are adjusting, but they're adjusting in a. In a. In a functional manner, right?
- [29:35]
B
Yeah. And it's not something maybe like, hey, change the grip or change this, like, technical things like that. Maybe it's something where it's like, come lower, go straighter. With the, like, Alcaraz adjustment, you said, might have been, like, what, straighter with the arms and maybe a little lower.
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A
You know, that's what it looks like to me. It looks like. Yeah. So rather than. He was going a little high and then. Yeah, you know, like kind of a
- [29:56]
B
loss, and then I'm like, somebody else might come and say, you know what? He got a little bit more, like, bent in the elbows, and it helped him, you know, stay shorter on it. Then he can just, you know, extend the arms and accelerate and accelerate, and you're like, you know what? That also, like, makes sense to me also, you know, so then that might be something for him that we don't know. We weren't there. But he just said, you know what? This feels more comfortable. So, like, I'm gonna stick with it. Because then also, too, it's like we were always taught, hey, like, have like, the elbows, like, slightly bent, because then you can just like, turn and like, extend them. But then a couple players just start doing it with, you know, their. Their arms a little straighter. Novak, maybe when he turns, it's like a little, like, straighter at times, but then you're like, Serena seen, like, she was little like that. So then you see somebody just being, like, so successful doing that, where you're like, you know what? That works. You know, because then there was a period of time where it was like, just get the racket back quick and then just go forward on it, you know, so it doesn't matter how you get there. Just get around to the point of contact. So then it's like whatever allows you to get there faster. So then find your way to do that. What. What's more comfortable for you that way.
- [30:59]
A
And I think the other. The other one that we don't talk enough about in our sport is I guess there's like, this conform technique that everyone talks about, but it's actually about adaptive technique to the. To the tactical situation, anyway. Yeah, you know, you guys are always. But in a natural way, you'll be naturally adapted. Adapting. Yeah. What, what. What you're doing with your feet, your body and your racket. Depending on the situation you're in and.
- [31:24]
B
Yes.
- [31:24]
A
And depending on the situation that you're trying to. You're trying to achieve as well, we can get a little locked in. I'd be. I'd love to. As much. I'd love to go down that rabbit hole even further. Yeah, I'm conscious I'm not going to have you for hours and hours, and. And I want to get into some other things. And the one. One thing as we're talking about you growing up, you obviously, Ryan, who. Who is a couple of years older than you, you know, he was number eight in the world juniors, you know, obviously went on and had it. Had his pro career as well as the younger brother growing up, was there a rivalry there? You know, we talk. Andy Murray, Jamie Murray, talk a lot about that. You know, how there was a. That helped Andy a lot because he. He had this older brother he was trying to get after. Was there ever a period where you felt you in his shadow? A little bit, you know, because Ryan even. I remember being at LSU in Louisiana, and people were talking about Ryan as a junior. Right. You know, and that was back in like, 2000, 2001, you know, as he was starting to come through and, oh, there's a younger one as well, you know, was kind of the. How. How. How was that for you growing up in terms of rivalry versus living in the shadow versus having an inspirational figure to look up to?
- [32:39]
B
Honestly, I would say it was neither. Like, like, no shadow, no rivalry in terms of, like, animosity, like, the way we were. I mean, we're very close family no matter what. So anytime he would do something, well, like. Or if he didn't do any, like, play well or win a match, I feel like I would hurt more than he did sometimes, whenever he lost the matches, because I feel like that's just how much we were taught to care about one another. And for me, it was just nothing but support always. But it was always a very good objective of something to look up to, especially if he did something where it was like, okay, he's doing it like, we're doing the same things every day. So then when you're younger, if you're like, it's working for him, then. Then there's no reason why it shouldn't work for me. And so for me, it was always just anytime he would do something, it would be like that. That's the reason on why it can be done. You know, we're same coach, same family, you know, everything. And then, so any kind of success that he would have, like, we almost. I almost felt it as well, because it was just. I feel like that's how close we were, and that's how bad I wanted everything for him to come true as well. And so for me, it was just nothing but support all the time.
- [33:51]
A
And what about. What about your sister as well? Who. You know, she. She went on. Played at Mississippi State, you know, where. Where did she kind of fit into that dynamic?
- [34:01]
B
You know, she. She loved playing, but I feel like she loved tennis more once she started looking at colleges. And then that gave her something like. I don't know if it was just because we were boys and going to work with my dad all the time, and, you know, obviously he would push us very hard, and he Always had a hard time pushing my sister because he felt like when she was younger that she just didn't like it as much as we did. So he just, that's what he always told. He just didn't push. Push her as hard. But she loved playing, but she just always had different, different goals. You know, I think from a younger age, Ryan and I, we wanted to dedicate ourselves from, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 to it every day. And that's just, you know, sometimes, like, what you have to do. But she was probably the best athlete out of all three of us, I would say, in terms like, like, she's an unreal athlete. So she's always like, man, I wish I would have, like, you know, pushed through it harder because, like, how once she started taking it more serious in her junior year of high school, she was able to like, get like to a D1 SEC school, which was like her goal ultimately. But we always took it, especially my parents, just the same as, especially once she started, you know, really caring emotionally about it more and more. You're going to naturally care more as a sibling as well. But yeah, for her, she just, when she was younger, she just. Yeah, she just didn't want to play as much, I would say.
- [35:24]
A
And then, and then yourself, Christian, and obviously the family as well, you talked about the move to Texas, but I guess the almost the higher profile one and the one that we, we know you for. I'm talking to you and you.
- [35:36]
B
Yeah.
- [35:36]
A
You're only a mile away from, from that site right now, right? Yes. You know, Politeris, I think it was, you know, it was, it was the place in the world. Right. It was the place in the world where tennis, the tennis mecca. It was where everybody talked about, you know, Nick was kind of the. Almost like the superstar coach. You know, he. He talked big, he. He looked big, he acted big in, in, in. In every way. You know, he had, he had the, the stars Bradenton. So, so what, what took you guys there? And that was. I believe you were about age 14 at that time when you made that move.
- [36:14]
B
Yeah, honestly, it was something that my parents were trying to figure out the best thing to do. A lot of these parents are sometimes learning what's, what's to do. You know, they make big decisions to reloc. And at that time we had signed with IMG and it was just what they felt was best for us in order to be around more players and more competition.
- [36:38]
A
So IMG had taken over as taken over bolletaries at that point had they
- [36:42]
B
yeah, at that time, Volletaire's name was still on the tennis branding side of it. So when we got here, we called it Bolletary, and everybody said, oh, well, it's IMG is the tennis side of it. Because at that time, I didn't know that. I just knew that IMG was connected as it. So then it was just. Once we signed with img, then our manager at the time, Ben Crandall, you know, was living here in Bradenton and was like, it'd be great to come around here with a lot of great players. All the clients, you know, are here. You can train for free, have all the facilities. At that time, Nick was here pretty much every day at the academy. And, you know, you'd see him all the time, and obviously his reputation, you could go on and on how great he was, you know, but so it was just a way to just come and be around more serious tennis players and people that had dedicated themselves and were passionate about it as we were. And we just, my parents and us, we just trusted that it was going to be the right spot. That's ultimately what. What brought us to. To Bradenton.
- [37:42]
A
Tell us about Nick. I was telling you.
- [37:44]
B
Yeah.
- [37:45]
A
You know, Nick Bolletari, our, you know, God. God rest his soul and bless his soul. But, you know, he. He was our hundredth episode on. On the. Such an incredible honor to kind of sit across a video call from him. And just. Even at that time of, you know, his. The age that he was, he just oozes aura. He used so. So much that came through. Tell us. Tell us about some of those experiences. Maybe share a story or two on. On Nick.
- [38:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's like Nick, you'll see a video of him talking now on Instagram. It'll be. Could be a video from 30, 40 years ago, something. Talking to Andre or somebody. And it just has a way to somehow just make you feel connected. It always feels like he's talking directly to you or something. He's saying, you feel that you can connect with emotionally, you know, Nick, it's. You never know what he was going through personally or anything like that, because he just. As soon as you would see him, he just had an ability to make you feel like you were the most important thing right then in that second, ask you, you know, what's going on? How you doing? What can I do for you? And then whether it was something good, it'd make you feel better if something hadn't gone good, tournament or something else. If he could. Felt like something else. Was bothering you. He just had a way to be direct and ask, you know, and make you feel comfortable to share things with him. And he just, you know, he had a way to lift you up. And I felt like that's why so many people respected him all the time, because it didn't matter what was going on with him personally. He just felt like, you know, he wanted to be there for somebody else. And I felt like that was just his gift, and he learned to share it through tennis initially. That gave him, you know, a lot of power. And I think that's why so many tennis players, you know, use them. And why they respected him so much is because I think he initially understood that. And then he was able to just find all sorts of ways to just connect. You know, he would speak West Point. You could. You could go on and on naming it, because people just realize that he had something to say, and he had. He has a way, a passion that a lot of people can appreciate. And I think passion in anything is what people respect the most. You know, they can recognize that in somebody else. And passion, work ethic, and selflessness. I think those are qualities that Nick had, and I think that's why so many people respect him and why he's such a legend. I'll live on forever.
- [40:11]
A
And was he. Was. Was he able to have that impact across the. Across the environment at img? It's politeries. For me, it'll always be politeries.
- [40:22]
B
Yeah.
- [40:23]
A
Was he, when you went, I would imagine in the earlier years, for sure, he was. He was. It was kind of him. Right. And I don't know the guy, but I know Red. You know, everyone talked about Red, and there was kind of two or three of his people that seemed to be able to kind of spread that as IMG got bigger. Was he still able to have that impact across the environment, or did that start to dissolve a little bit almost as it became a little bit of a bigger. A bigger machine, really?
- [40:53]
B
Yeah. So when we first got there, it was, I guess, img, it was like, from how I know it, I might not even be telling it exactly, but Vollettary was a side, like the tennis side. And, you know, it started as tennis, and then I think that IMG took over, and then they started to expand it into other sports, but then they still want to use his name from a branding for the tennis side of it. So he was always involved. You know, at that point, it didn't matter, like, even once it officially became img. I mean, Nick. Nick had such a. Just aura about him that no matter where he's going, if he's talking, people are listening, people are paying attention and just feel, you know, honored to be around him. And I think how most of the true tennis players knew it growing up was it was voluntary. And he would have all these great players, you know, that he was coaching, and they're all at once. And then I think at a certain point, just more academies like, were opening up. So then players started just naturally, like spread around a little bit more because there used to be, you know, Nick was, you know, the one that started. It almost seemed like academies. And then people were like, you know what? That's a great idea. This guy like, like almost pioneered something here. So then, so players started to spread around a little bit more. But no, Nick never lost his, you know, ability to take command or even, even here on the grounds. Like, if he was walking around people, people were always paying attention and he always knew exactly what he was doing.
- [42:21]
A
And, and you, when we, when you look back at your, you know, you, you still, you know, you've. If you want, you've still got a long career ahead. You know, if you're going to be Roham Bepanna, you've got another 14, 15 years, you know. So who've your big influences been and what are some of those philosophies that were ingrained in you from a, from an early age or mid age?
- [42:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, my, my influence was always just, you know, my dad, you know, if you're gonna do something, be, be passionate about it. And you know, I got a passion for tennis from a work standpoint, it's just what, what I love doing. I would never see myself doing anything else. And I just, yeah, I just wanted to play as long as I could to make, make a life out of it now. And you know, whether it's singles or doubles, like, honestly, the passion for just going out there and practicing and playing for me is never going to change. So for me it was always like pretty simple because I just like, I just love doing it.
- [43:18]
A
And when you talk about your dad. So this is Pat, you know, Pat Harrison before you guys move to Bradenton. Was your dad working with high level players? I know he'd been a coach and he'd done. Because it feels like once you at img, he still works at IMG now, right?
- [43:38]
B
No, he's got it. He, he's not, he hasn't been there since 2020 actually.
- [43:43]
A
Right.
- [43:43]
B
He started. Yeah, yeah, he started his. He's just got his own, like, not, not just, just pro. He just started teaching privately essentially. There was a couple players that wanted a. To hire him privately that just as he was getting older, you know, we, Ryan was getting towards the end of stop and playing and then I was looking to switch into double. So it just seemed like it made more sense for, for our family than at that time.
- [44:09]
A
But it seems like certainly from the outside that, that he's also made a bit of a name for himself as a coach. And was that something that came more when he moved to Bradenton or was that something that had been happening for years and years before?
- [44:24]
B
I would say more in Bradenton when it became. Because he had never worked with pro players before we got here even he had, he had always worked with, you know, Ryan and I and then just top junior players. And then when we were in Louisiana it was just strictly like adults and almost beginners. You know, he had, he had a decent program but it was no players that were making an impact on the pro tours, ATP, WTA. Once we came to Bradenton, you know, and obviously just from where he had helped Ryan and I get from the junior rankings, you know, obviously that just is something that gives validation to our other players. Like, okay, like it's worked for these two guys. You know, you've coached your, you know, your kids and at that time then you start hitting with other players and they like you. So then that's how his reputation started to develop because there's so many players here and then he was always free to hit with anybody and so then anybody that wanted to hit with him and coach, that's how he started working with so many other players. And then obviously players are going to stick with who, who they like to work with. So then that was kind of how his coaching side of it started and he's gotten the reputation he has.
- [45:30]
A
Great. A great family move it seems.
- [45:32]
B
Yeah, exactly. And his thing is, is like even now, I mean he just turned 62 and I'm texting Ryan a day like got to figure out a way to get dad off the court so much but he just won't stop. Like, like he went 7am to 5.30pm today just with only a 30 minute break and on the 30 minute break like he was watching me hit like because I'll hit next to him on the court and he's only stopping at 5:30 is because it started to get dark at 5:30, you know, like. But that's just how much he loves just being on the court. Then that's obviously I think too why so many players liked working with him and being on him, because no matter what, he was always going to be switched on and engaged and just love being out there. And I think that that's just something that's just. If you're going to be a coach in tennis, you know, you can be a really successful coach, I find, by just. Even if you're sometimes saying the wrong things, but you're also openly, like, willing to change something when you've been proven wrong. But just if you just love being out there and. Because sometimes I feel like players want to talk to their coach and prove them wrong sometimes, and then just have the coach be like, you know what? Like that one. Maybe that one. What I was saying is right, but it doesn't work for you. So I'm going to listen, you know, and then let's just adjust, you know, and. And then if the player might come back there, I'm just being. I don't know. It's just things, like, there's just simple things, I think in coaching that people love, you know, like. And. And he's always found a way to get along with players and everybody he's working with and have a good time doing it. So then I think that's. I think that's why he just likes being out there so much.
- [47:05]
A
Put the impact. There's something that. The reward of impacting people is. Is massive. Right. And. And there's no greater gift than passing on that passion to somebody else. And, you know, come. It comes through in you, you know, and I actually. A little story with Ryan and I, I did. I spoke to Ryan about this, but last year at Wimbledon, it was that kind of rainy Wimbledon, 2024. And he was. It was Danielle, wasn't it? Daniel Collins, he was with. Yeah. So we were. The. The secret of Wimbledon, that's no longer a secret because I've talked about it too much on the podcast. The indoor tennis center, changing rooms.
- [47:43]
B
Yeah.
- [47:43]
A
So. So when you're a male coach of a female player, you know, Mike and Mike and Mechta were always too tight to give me a credential, so I always would have a credential from Gabby and Aaron. So that meant you couldn't get in a locker room at all these big events.
- [47:58]
B
Yeah.
- [47:58]
A
But at Wimbledon, you've got the indoor tennis center. So that was often where Ryan was as well, you know, so it was kind of hanging out Ryan quite a bit. And Danielle was playing a match and she was full of down, maybe in the second set anyway. And he came in and he's like stripping off. He's stripping off. And I'm like, you know what's happening, dude? He's like, ah, she's playing terrible at night, but she's getting on the court indoors now. And he's like taking his clothes off and he's, he's like, he's like getting suited up up. And he comes back in 20 minutes later dripping in sweat.
- [48:37]
B
Yeah.
- [48:37]
A
And he's like, I've really, like, I've gone through her here, but I've gone through her with tennis. Like we've really, we've hit. I've gone like side to sides with her. Like we've got a, got her moving and we're going back out there on the court now and we put, we put it on in the indoor tennis center and fall off became 4, 1 full 41 before came 4, 2, 4. And she ended up winning the set. 6 4.
- [49:03]
B
Yeah.
- [49:03]
A
Then he walked back into the, into the locker room and you know, I had a little word with him and said, look, it was so impressive to see that as a coach you were like getting down and dirty with the player and, and, but that. What I'm trying to connect here is it was interesting that that was Ryan's way. That was Ryan's way with a top 20 WTA singles player. That seems to very much be your way. You know, when I see you as you're on the court, you know, people love practicing with you because you know that there's, there's there fire coming. Right? You're not holding back. The, the intensity is there and that's your Dad's way. At 62 years old, being out there on the courts and it feels like the gift that he's passed on to you is in not do as, not do as I say so much, but actually do as I do, which is, which is the more powerful way of passing on a message.
- [49:56]
B
Yeah, and sometimes. Yeah, and I remember that day too. And then sometimes to everybody's different, but. And I think too that goes back to how well that he knew Danielle and like from a coaching relationship at that point. I think it was like he knew that there was stuff going on with Danielle that, like that day, like she was comfortable to say, like she had some stuff going and she was just not ready, you know, she didn't want. And so then like the warm up and everything was like not good. And she started off like 40 down, just was not ready to go. Luckily it was a rain delay and I remember because I sat next to him in the match. And then he went. He's like, yeah, we just, like, hit. And I, like, got her like Warren. Then she came out and played some, like, the best. Best tennis I've seen, you know, and that was, you know, at times, it's like, I think sometimes you just gotta, like, go for it and love being out there, too. But also, as a coach, like, that's not always gonna work for. For everybody, you know, and then realizing, like, when's the right time to, like, switch on and go into that mode, and then when's the right time to back off because the player needs it. And I think that's like, one of the most important factors in coaching that you can sometimes only get with experience,
- [51:03]
A
I'm sure, you know, and linking that into. To your. Your journey, your and your injury journey. And forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but eight separate surgeries between 2009 and 2018. Left femur, right hip, left hip, right shoulder, right wrist, right. A doctor, left a doctor and left femur.
- [51:29]
B
Yep.
- [51:29]
A
Eight surgeries, nine years. And there's. I don't know if I've missed any, but how have you cope with that? But I guess before we jump into that is your way, your way of training is. How much of that do you think is linked to the fact that you just almost overloaded the body because it was your way that you did it?
- [51:51]
B
Yeah.
- [51:52]
A
What. What was the. What was the story there on. On. On why so much of that happened? And then how have you mentally coped and. And had the resilience to come through all of that?
- [52:01]
B
Well, honestly, this is one of the times where I say, as a players like to be stubborn. It's like, because yes, I like to work hard, but I know my injury stuff, like, 0% of it had to come from my training because I just know that, like, the first surgery I ever had was a bone infection that was just. Just a fluke thing like that. It wasn't even, like, sports. And then the reason why I had so many surgeries was because I went in for, like, literally just like, a minor adductor, like, hip strain that probably didn't need surgery. And it was after, because I played Isner in the summer, like in Atlanta, where his serves bouncing even higher than, like, it always does, apparently in Atlanta. And so after the match, I was like, man, I've, like, gotten, like, a little strain in my adductor. That was how it started. And then it just. So that strain just became, you know what? Like, I did an MRI on It that you got a strain. And then I was just connected because at the time signed with the academy IMG and that, you know, where they connect you with just all sorts of. With doctors that are top notch. And I was connected with this guy who was supposed to be, like, the best hip surgeon. And the problem is, I just think he thought he was, like, maybe, like, too good. And ultimately it was my fault. But I went in for, like, one little hip operation, and they're like, you know what? Like, let's do both, because we will just make it better. And then, hey, is anything else hurting you? And I was like, well, you know, I never missed time. Like, sometimes just my shoulder's a little sore, you know, like, only in America.
- [53:39]
A
Christian.
- [53:40]
B
Yeah, you know what? Like, I would have never gotten my shoulder checked. But they're like, yeah, let's just do it. You know, you're doing an MRI on your hip. Everything's right here. This is, like, the best care. They're like, yeah, you got something going on on your shoulder. You know, you might tear it. You know, when you're, like, 23, you're doing your hips right now. So, like, let's just take care of this. And then by that time, you've gone one hip. And I've done two additional surgeries now that I wouldn't have even done. And then that's when problems really start to kick in, because you've got atrophy. I'm rehabbing. I haven't even hit a ball. I've, like, torn some ligaments in my wrist because my muscle had atrophied from my shoulder surgery. And then they tell me that they've made a mistake, that I didn't need the hip surgeries, that I should have just done the adductor surgeries. And because it, like, caused, like, more problems than was ever even there in the first place. So then I ended up with the adductor surgeries. So then I end up, like, having all these sort of surgeries I just never would have, like, even had. But I do.
- [54:37]
A
Sounds like when you go in for Botox and you come out with your lips done and then you've got a job before, you know.
- [54:43]
B
Yeah. Like. Like, ultimately. And you're like. And it wasn't as bad as it, like, seems, because, like, I mean, I always had a great time. Like, I made, like, the rehab in those days fun and, like, just always, like, couldn't wait to get back to playing. So, like, I always found something that, like, I would look forward to, but at that Time, Like, I was having all these surgeries and I wasn't even, like, really training, you know? And then I think it was just, like, honestly, just the fact that, like, I love playing and working so hard, which is why I was able to, like, push through that. Because then when you've had surgeries, like, you're gonna have setbacks, you're gonna have aches, and you're just gonna, like, feel, like, off. Like, even now, I can't lift my shoulder, like, certain directions, like, but it's just like, my. You find a way to work around it, you know, and you. Like, like, like, I don't know, like. And I feel like that's just why, like, I was able to always, like, keep pushing because, like, you know, you'd have a setback and you keep pushing and you find a way and you adjust, and then, yeah, I would spend a lot of time on it, but I also felt like that was what I needed because I missed so much time that I was just like, you know what? Like, I missed a lot of time on the court in those developmental years. It's the most important years of a player.
- [55:47]
A
Yeah.
- [55:48]
B
Because ultimately those. Those are the years that you can improve the most, that you can then see a lot of the game. Like, sometimes I'll see players, like, I feel like they got to 20 years old, 21, and they just got so good at that age, and then they just felt like they just knew how to just maintain and, you know, then they made a career out of just, like, knowing how to maintain themselves and just feeling good on the body standpoint, and that works for them. So you're like, you know what? Like, that. That's great. That's what they're happy doing. And then there's other players that. That, you know, they weren't maybe as good from those years, and then that was you. I feel like I missed a lot of developmental years there. And so then I felt like I needed to figure out a way to improve, to give myself a chance to be good enough to somehow make it in the sport.
- [56:34]
A
Do you think that stopped you being a top hundred singles player?
- [56:37]
B
The. Which part? The.
- [56:38]
A
The. Your body, ultimately.
- [56:40]
B
Oh, the body? Yeah, the body 100. Because I just can't put a ranking goal on it or anything like that, because then you just. You just like. I feel like that just is always going to sound bitter, but, I mean, I got to 198, and obviously your. Your ranking was held back no matter what because you just weren't playing consistent, you know, like, and ultimately, because then at that point, like, I was. I felt like, you know, most of the time when I was playing, I would come home and it was like I would have a hard time. Like, if I played two or three tournaments in a row, coming home and like. Like doing anything but hitting, you know, just stationary, you know. So then I felt like I wasn't able to have really training. It's like I would spend time on the court, you know, hitting a lot of balls, but then, like, the match play and all that sort of stuff. Like, I would spend a lot of time not really doing it, but I would, you know, but I would find ways to hit, you know, and play. But then when I would go play tournaments and I was running so much side to side, then that's where I would then break down because I was going into so many more stretch positions that I felt like if I was training for all the time in those positions, that then I would just get injured too much. So then I was actively just always training at, like, 70, because I felt like if I was, like, pushing harder than that, you know, like, then I would break down. And for me, 70%, like, I'm still putting time into doing it, but I'm just not, like, going side to side and doing. I'm still, like, you know, just stationary more so and just spending time doing it. That was the way that I learned to adjust. But I felt like I was at least improving forehands and backhands and shots and repetitions. So then that was what I felt like, because I felt like if I wasn't doing that and I wasn't able to really play matches, then I wasn't going to be very good anyways.
- [58:22]
A
Did you have any moments of darkness where you were. Where you were thinking of stopping?
- [58:28]
B
No, never stopping. Because I felt like I would always. You know, I felt like I was young enough at those times, and I loved it enough, and I felt like I had done well enough to at least see a little bit of progress to want to keep playing. But I did know that, like, when I, like, won the first match at Wimbledon in 2022 at the Slam there, after I qualified, I knew that that was going to be the last significant thing I ever did, like, in singles. Yeah, because, like, at that time, like, that was over.
- [58:55]
A
Jay Clark, huh?
- [58:56]
B
Yeah. And I just knew that because, like, I was struggling. Like, if I didn't win the third set, like, I was gonna retire. Like, I was, like, at that point in the match, like, I was really struggling to move. I Went up two sets, and I stood up after the third, and I just couldn't stand on my foot. Like, I'd had some plantar fasciitis going on for a while that was coming and going with some pain, and then it just, like, got very severely. We had a long break after the second, and then, you know, I was kind of like feeling it a lot through QALYS already, but it was manageable. And then there was just a movement I had made at the end of the second that I felt. Didn't feel good. And then I'd had a little piece of the bone chip off, like a little cavity, almost like, not like a fracture, but it was like some damage to the bone as well as the plantar fasciitis that I was feeling. So then I, like, when I. When I played that, Matt, like, I knew. So that was like, the one moment where I knew that, you know what. And for some reason, like, I always thought I was going to feel bad about stopping singles, and I just always felt, like, at peace with it, you know, because I. I honestly, Michael Venus is my closest friend in the world, and I've seen what a great career he had, and I knew that, that, that would be something to strive for as well if, you know, if I wasn't able to play consistent and, you know, so I ended up having to pull out of my next round match, but I felt like. I just felt like. I don't know, I felt somehow like, like even at peace with it, and I was just like, you know what? Like, I missed a long time after that. I took a protective ranking, 20, 23. I played a little bit of singles, but. But, you know, like, I knew I wasn't training and really playing for it, so I knew that that was going to be. That I was going to start looking at going into doubles then.
- [60:34]
A
Okay.
- [60:34]
B
That. That was what I did. And I just always. I always felt at ease with it.
- [60:39]
A
And you mentioned Mike. We've mentioned Mike a couple of times. Legends, if you're listening. Mike, we love you, man. Yeah, you know, absolute legend. But were you good, close friends with Mike when he won French Open with your brother?
- [60:55]
B
Yeah, Mike had already lived with us for years.
- [60:58]
A
How cool is that? How cool is that? 2017, huh?
- [61:01]
B
Yeah, that was. That was pretty special. What. So 2017, he'd already live with. He, like, 10 years actually at that time, you know, because I had 12. He started living with us actually in 05, so 12 years. And then he was always like family right away, you know, and then I say living with us, but he was always basing in the States, in and out of college. So his home was always here in Florida when he needed a place to train because then his parents had moved back to New Zealand. So he, he had two homes at that time, but he was in the States a lot more but he was always with us. So then that was like, that was incredible to see. And just honestly even at that time like Ryan was still a successful singles player and you know, like 40 at that time. And just like I remember like my dad was like balling, crying watching it and like back home just so even then I'm, I guess my point is there's. Michael was only playing doubles. Ryan was so successful in singles and then just went in like a doubles championship like that. The amount of like joy and gratitude that are just like, I don't know just how significant like that moment like could, could mean to like everybody that, that knew them and you realize that there's, there's a lot to be done from winning a lot of doubles matches.
- [62:13]
A
We need, we need another Harrison Venus Grand Slam title. You know, this is, you know, Mike's a, yeah, he's a young pup still in, in mind, in mind and body, you know. Yeah. Don't don't believe the age next to his, next to his name. So.
- [62:27]
B
Exactly.
- [62:28]
A
That's, that's what I, that's what I'm pushing for one day over the next few years and on the, on the doubles just to, to kind of go into the doubles as I think we, in this year, of course. But you know, if we go back to firstly 2012, you know, as an 18 year old, you, you know, got a wild card with your brother into, into US Open and have a run to the quarterfinals again. One, how was that experience? But two, how much did that almost plant a seed in your mind that actually, you know what, I was doing this at 18. Doubles is a sport that I'm going to be able to make my way in as well.
- [63:05]
B
Yeah, I mean honestly like we, we would always play singles and doubles growing up and then I think always showed us like just the chemistry that you can have to be a good team and that aspect of doubles that's sometimes you can build with and play well off of. But it showed that. Yeah, I felt like, it showed me that like, you know, you can do it. I knew I had a good partner and my brother at the time. But then obviously through the years when I would play doubles, I felt like guys were getting good at it. You Know, like everybody's like playing and you feel like you somehow have no, like, space to play. And so then, you know, sometimes I see that now where there's always this back and forth on double specialist and you know, all these guys didn't play single, but I'm like, shoot, like, yeah, like we did, we made quarters in 2012 at 18 and like, I wasn't even playing doubles. Like, like we didn't play it the right way from how you have to play it now. Otherwise I feel you just like, you know, you aren't like going to win too many matches. So then for me, I'm always like, yeah, I just feel like, you know, I would play doubles back then. You know, this is 15, 16 years ago. But I just feel like the depth of it and the way that guys are playing, I feel like it's like improving and the level of it's going up and I mean, it's like anything. I feel like the, the better the level is getting at something, the more appealing it should be to anybody.
- [64:25]
A
Yeah. Do you think I actually had a, I had a bit of a moment earlier this year where, and, and it was when it was, I think it was maybe Wimbledon. There was a practice, practice set that Mike and Nick Nicola played with you, you and Evan at Wimbledon over the courts.
- [64:45]
B
Yeah.
- [64:46]
A
And, and, and I, I would say you guys. But then maybe I'm trying to think of the other team that I sought that you guys almost started and in particular, you start. Started also to make me think that Aravelo, that was the same day they played a set with Aravelo Pavic and then they played a set with, with, with you and Evan. And it was, it feels like the way you were playing doubles and the way Aro is playing doubles is almost shifting the sport again a little bit in terms of, you know, if we think of like a mech ditch or we think of, you know, the positioning but also the touch and the, and the way that these guys, a lot of these doubles guys were playing. It feels like you, you are Aello and maybe a few others are almost taking the game to a level of like just that like the ball is just being hit so hard, you know, serving so big but hitting so big from the back. Maybe a little bit less tactical and a little bit more almost just like ball strike quality. Do you. How, how do you see the, the doubles as evolved? If we go back to 2012, you know, you've, you've been, you've obviously had certain successes along the way at different Ages, you know, and, and, and where do you think now doubles is going and where does it go next?
- [66:07]
B
I guess I think it's just the level of everything is going to be going up. I think guys, it's going to be more guys that are doing a little bit of both, you know, hitting from the back and also have the skill set at the net, you know, and then also. But doubles is always going to be a team, you know. Like how I feel like I was playing this year is just because I knew that I was also playing with a guy who has insanely good ground strokes, you know. So then we can, you know, be back and, and hit a few more balls at the back and then you utilize the, the strengths of the, the players that you're with, you know, and then, you know, so then the other stuff around the net, that's what I'm going to look to continue to improve on, you know. So then it's like if you're playing and your partner's at the back and I'm at the net, just continuing to work on, on those things to where hopefully I don't have to sit back there and try to just bang, bang the ball around. Because you're only having to do that because guys are so good at the net that you feel like it's just if you leave one hung that they're gonna do something and, and knock it off. So that's what forces you to try to learn how to play and adapt differently. Because then when I used to play with Ryan, like he had the power and I was trying to play the ball down and around and over and then I kind of adapted that maybe as I just got a little stronger and hit the ball a little harder. But I feel like over time though, that's, you know, you're going to need to develop both. I think doubles is just improving as a whole. You know, guys are taking it more serious. I feel like guys are 22, 23, 24, out of college and starting to like, you know, look to go into it more. So, so the level of. It's just naturally going to go up and improve.
- [67:46]
A
Yeah, because any, any sport, the best at any sport, it's about controlling time and space. Right. You know, messy, messy in, on, in soccer or, you know, the best, I'm sure basketball players, their ability to, to control those two things you talked about. Now it feels like there's very little space on the, and the best players. I did a double session actually with the academy kids today and I actually showed a video and showed a freeze frame that I use of your partner next year actually Neil. But with Joel, you know how in the wall position they're almost connected in the middle the way that they're squeezing space and doing incredibly well. And I guess one of the ways of trying to beat the space is by controlling the time. And one of the ways of controlling the time is with bolt with power. Right. And having just raw power. It's fascinating for me on how this next phase goes actually because you are going to get. You're going to get more and more people that are. We see it in singles, right. The balls are being hit bigger know on a more regular basis with, with one the physical specimens that people are to the strings, the technology, you know, all of those things. It's, it's. I think it's going to be really interesting what happens in doubles in five years time because I think you go back and you watch videos of the Bryans who were absolute legends of the game. And I was very fortunate to have had an experience playing them at a Grand Slam back in Wimbledon 2005.
- [69:19]
B
Yes. How'd you do?
- [69:20]
A
We. We lost. Yeah. Which you know what we lost in full set second round.
- [69:25]
B
It's not bad.
- [69:26]
A
But we actually. There was a moment. We had a moment of being a set up, maybe three, two up in the third and actually feel like I think we're getting on top. On top.
- [69:38]
B
Yeah.
- [69:38]
A
And I had 1540 and James Auckland, I apologize, I'm not blaming you, I'm not a blamer but I kind of. I had a good backhand return single handed but I would, I would sit in my backhand grip.
- [69:52]
B
Yeah.
- [69:52]
A
And Bob hit a big serval wide to me. So I kind of had like a continental forehand. I didn't. Couldn't change my foot and I kind of played this kind of grass caught forehand right at his feet. And James Oakland went to porch rather than kind of what I like my players to do, just go in just going and blanket and he. And he just knocked the volley down the line.
- [70:16]
B
Yeah.
- [70:16]
A
Then he went ace. Unreturnable. Unreturnable Chest bumped Mike. And then 30 minutes later, 35 minutes later, we'd lost in four sets and I felt like a. A bulldozer had kind of just kind of rolled over us, you know. So we, we had one moment. We had. That was out one moment in there
- [70:35]
B
and then hey, it's not bad right there.
- [70:37]
A
Then they were on us and that's. I dine out on that. That's the only. That's the only thing I've got. But it was a loss. Yeah, but. But you watch videos of them. Them and, you know, I put the freaking ball away, boys.
- [70:50]
B
Yeah.
- [70:51]
A
You know, it was so much. It's a, it has massively evolved even in, from, from that era, right?
- [70:57]
B
That area. Yeah. 100. I feel like guys, it's easy to say, like, oh, yes, they're on top of the net, like, lob them. But also guys have the ability to know how to get in close, knock them off. But you're also watching the grip chains and you, you know, and you're. Yes, like, the lob can be used, effective. That. That's what the returners have to get good, you know, and work on disguising it. Because then the net guys are also getting good at, you know, reading when the lobs come in and immediately moving back and, you know, covering the space. And then, you know, guys understand the positioning. You know, it looks like the line's always open, but from where the serve and where the guys are impacting the ball, the line's not really open as much as people. Like, I'll text people and they're always saying, oh, go down the line. It's not always there. You know what I mean? Like, guys are knowing it. Like the positionings and understanding and reading the shots are also improving as the net player. So then that part of it's, you know, getting good, but then obviously guys are closer. So then that's where if you have the ability to hit through guys and make them, you know, lose space. And that's where that's like, kind of like the little chess match, like, back and forth where players are adjusting and guys are trying to add tools to their, to their game, I guess.
- [72:10]
A
Absolutely. And just last couple of things before we move in our quick fire round on that, it's. I, I can't have you on and not talk about your year. Right. 20, 25. I don't know your exact ranking, but 85, 90, start of the year, it was, it was, it was impressive. You know, it was again, kind of being involved in, in, in the, in the Tour and seeing it. But like, you know, you could see, actually it was in Indian Wells when I think people started to go, shit, these guys are real. Like, you know, you'd, you'd won in Dallas, I think you'd maybe won in Mexico as well. Or you had it. You turned up and obviously had your big run. I remember speaking to Mat Pavic and all those guys got you in the semis in Indian Wells. But like, they were like, mat was like, no, no, these guys are good. Like, really good, you know, and so. So tell us, talk us through. Give us your kind of quick synopsis of. Of 2025.
- [73:04]
B
Honestly, I started 2025 and my goal was, you know, just get the ranking at a point where you're going to get those chances. And then I got a chance early on with Rajiv, and we were able to capitalize and get a lot of points. And then once Evan and I started, we were able to do the same thing pretty quickly. You know, I felt like we played two Challengers at the end of 2024 and just loved playing together. I felt like we were going to have chances. So it's just a matter of, you know, playing enough together and getting those chances. And honestly, we were able to just capitalize on them right away. You know, from there it feels surreal. It feels like it's gone by the year really quick. But, you know, we started out initially it was like, okay, like, let's play together for like, you know, these like, four tournaments, you know, five tournaments, and then we'll see how. How it goes, you know, and then we were doing well, so obviously you just couldn't. Couldn't stop then. And you know, it was pretty cool that we were able to go all the way through and make Turin like we did, you know, because that was something that, that, like I said, we started out the year just going for five weeks and that was it.
- [74:12]
A
Because it was almost like you guys had this incredible first kind of five months that felt it. The result. Result wise anyway. Yeah, it almost felt like, oh, they're gonna blow up. They're not quite gonna make Turin. And then, then, then you. You came strong in the last couple of events to, to get into. Into Turin as well.
- [74:31]
B
Yeah, we were able to. Honestly, like, we. We won Brussels, which was a big match because we, we played the number nine team and in the finals and because we were going to go Stockholm. But then everyone's like, oh, these, you know, the guys are behind us, are in Brussels. Like, do you want to just try to play the same event?
- [74:48]
A
Nice.
- [74:48]
B
And so then that was. That was. He made a great call there and we were. We had a great week there and then that helped for what ended up being solidifying, you know, us, us getting in. So then obviously we were pretty thrilled about that and we. Honestly, it was. Yeah, it was great year all around. We had a lot of success at, you know, early and then, but as you know, there's a lot of good teams out there too. So we definitely don't take. Take it for granted, that's for sure.
- [75:17]
A
I have to ask you because you're now a doubles player and yeah, they. I've said this for a long time. It's like the doubles tour should be. Netflix got it wrong. Following.
- [75:27]
B
Yes.
- [75:28]
A
Verev and Rune and people like that. They should have followed. Follow the doubles players get the insights to all the conversations. And I've said. I've said for a while, it's like Love island on steroids. You know, the doubles tour, you know, like all of the, the relationships and the. And it's just part of what it is, right? It's, you know, part and parcel of. Of how the doubles world works. It doesn't have to mean that people don't like each other. It's just professional people move on from relationships and, and there's always some at the end of the year you're a bit shocked at. You're like, well, hold on. They've just, they've made the, They've. I've had it with this year with, with. With my girls, Gabby Dubrowski, Aaron Routliff, people. I'm sure a lot of people are like, why that they've just won the US Open. What. What are the. What are they doing? Why does. Do we see so many teams split up, do you think, every year? What, what. What is it in the doubles world that that makes it difficult for. It's very rare that you see partnerships last longer than two years, really. Unless maybe they're. They're. They're childhood friends or they've got. They've got some different. Different connection is you just spend so
- [76:35]
B
much time, I think also with just the player. Sometimes it's logistics reasons, you know, like you might want to spend a little bit more time, switch. Oh, this person's living closer to me. You know, we're more similar or hey, I'm more similar in it. It could be so many different factors. You know, there's not always necessarily like a problem, I think for teams splitting up. You know, sometimes I've seen it where guys are just like, you know what? Like, like I want to play with somebody from my country or I want to play with this person, they live a little bit more closer or I think my game's just going to match up better with this person. You know, I feel like we're both good players, we got a lot of potential. You know, then that's. Sometimes it's just. It. It just depends, you know, and Then sometimes it's just, hey, they weren't getting along. You know, like, there's no hiding that and some reasons on, on some teams, too. And it's just there. There's no one factor, honestly.
- [77:30]
A
It's a relatively short career as well. Right. You know, that's what I always feel as well with the doubles players. It's like there's, there's not a long period of time potentially to be at that ranking to, to make the money while they can.
- [77:46]
B
Oh, 100%. You know, it's a short career. And then this is, like I said, like, we were in such a good position that we created for ourselves for this year. And, you know, you just. Sometimes there's just no reason for teams splitting up other than. And you just. One person wants to play with somebody else that they've known for a long time that became available. That you got to remember, too, at the end of a lot of years, sometimes guys will switch or stay together because they're. The person they want isn't available, who is like, might be their good friend of somebody that they really get along with. And then sometimes a team might split up that you don't expect to just because somebody else is available that's a close friend. Like, there's so many different factors I think that goes into it that it would have been nice for Netflix. Yeah. To. To follow. To follow that There'd be a lot of, A lot of good drama here and there. I'm sure with something there would.
- [78:39]
A
And I have to ask you about 2026. Obviously Neil. Neil Skupsky, you know, good friend of mine, you know, lsu, another LSU boy. Neil is also probably. I think I, I need to double check this, but I think he's the most, the most capped guest on Control. The Controllables. He's been on maybe six or seven times.
- [78:59]
B
Okay.
- [78:59]
A
You know, so. So it's, you know, you, you, you coming on as well kind of cements the control. The controllables theme. How are you feeling about that partnership? Obviously, we've heard a lot about Joe taking. Joe Salisbury taking a bit of a mental health break for, for the first part of the year. You know, how did that come about with Neil and. And how you look. Looking forward to starting 2026 with him?
- [79:23]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah, Joe's taking some time away. So you feel for Joe, obviously, he's one of the most respected guys out there, I think, especially on the double side, just too professional. So it's, it's pretty impressive that he's doing as well as he has, but he just knows what he needs. And so I think, you know, everybody's thinking about Joe, but for Neil and I just, he became, was just, just great friends, honestly. I've known him for a long time and sometimes, you know, it just, it just kind of worked out that Evan and I were switching up and then Nil was available and so I feel like I, I kind of looked into it and just looking forward to playing with him.
- [80:03]
A
So are you the switcher you're moving to juice side?
- [80:08]
B
Yes, I am. Yeah. Because also I've always played deuce side more so. Okay. So Nils obviously good on the ad. Seems like he's only played on the AD side. The do side is what I'm most comfortable on, I find. I just always played it growing up.
- [80:24]
A
And then real tennis players can play both sides.
- [80:28]
B
Christian, they, they say that too. Of course you can adjust, but every, hey, every real tennis player has a forehand or backhand preference too, you know, so then there's always a preference on, on somebody's going to have, have, you know, a straight strength or weakness, you know, and, but I think there's going to be certain players that are a little bit better on one side or the other. You know, you're gonna have your preferences. So I'll be the, I'll be switching sides to the do side. So I'm, I'm looking forward to that for sure.
- [80:55]
A
And how do you handle. So let's say I'm not delving into your agreement with Neil, but yeah, as, as time gets closer to Monte Carlo, when Joe's talking about coming back, you know, I, again, I'm not saying anything that I've not. That's not been said in the public that, you know, you get. You're playing with Neil, obviously, you know, Joel, I think has come out himself and even said, you know, he understands if you guys are doing great, Neil's not going to be available. Right. You know. Yeah. Does that add a little layer of pressure for you knowing that there's this little this. And apologies if I'm putting it into your head, but giving you that little kind of time pressure of. Right. We've got this period of time to, to make it work. Otherwise there's a five time Grand Slam champion kind of waiting in the wings.
- [81:41]
B
Yeah, no, not at all. Because you know, that's enough time. If you're doing well, you're not going to switch up mid season and if you're not doing well, you're going to switch up mid season anyway. Because that's like the time that if guys and new partnerships haven't started well, that they would be looking to switch up. So for most of the viewers, yeah, that's what how it normally works. You know, new partnerships, it's like, hey, you try it for a couple months want. And that would be the time to. Time to switch around. But nobody's gonna. Gonna change while, you know, middle of the year when you're winning a lot of matches like that. So I know that Neil knows that. Yeah. So no pressure there. But yeah, it's obviously stuff that we've talked about and discussed as well.
- [82:19]
A
Well, I think it's a. It's a good place for us to end before we jump into the quick fire round and. But I just want to say, Christian, before we do, just thank you for your time and I've had some conversations with you over the last 12 months, obviously around Mike, but I. You're always someone that I've. I've wanted to delve into more chats with, not. Not just on a camera, because you're a delightful young man. You know, I wish you all the very best. I want nothing but the best for you and Neil next year. And a big, big thank you for. For coming onto the show.
- [82:50]
B
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
- [82:52]
A
Are you ready for our quick fire round?
- [82:54]
B
Yes.
- [82:55]
A
What does control the controllables mean to you?
- [82:59]
B
It just means that control everything that's in your hands. You know, tennis has so many things that you're reacting to. You know, what your opponent's doing, what somebody's done to you the night before. But what you can. Can always control is your mindset and how you choose to respond to the situations that are happening.
- [83:18]
A
Who had the highest doubles ranking career high, yourself or your big bro?
- [83:24]
B
I think myself.
- [83:26]
A
What we. I said early on in our chat, I said, remember that number?
- [83:30]
B
Yeah.
- [83:30]
A
The number 15. You know what. Do you know what your brother's career high was?
- [83:35]
B
I don't.
- [83:36]
A
16.
- [83:37]
B
Okay. Yeah, there we go. The only reason. The reason why I thought mine got slightly higher was just because I knew they, you know, they. They qualified for Turin but won a slam. But I knew that him and Michael started playing later in the year, and so I didn't. I just was thinking about that. Yeah.
- [83:55]
A
So you. Not that I'm trying to create a rivalry, but you've just kept them. What's your. What's your favorite snack?
- [84:03]
B
Oh, my favorite snack are Oreos.
- [84:06]
A
Pre match.
- [84:07]
B
Pretty much. I would say I love Skittles if I'm Gonna like, snack on something I shouldn't you.
- [84:15]
A
The amount of energy that you burn up, you can eat whatever crap that you need. Need. What is one pre match routine that you refuse to skip no matter what?
- [84:26]
B
Just whenever it starts at the beginning of the day. But it's just. Or, but right before the match is tying my, my left shoe first. Always before my right shoe. When I, when I go to put my shoes on, I like, that's the only thing that's like, I'm like, I gotta do this one for sure.
- [84:40]
A
Don't tell your opponents that someone might have some of their sleeve. What's your, what's your unpopular tennis opinion?
- [84:47]
B
My unpopular tennis opinion, I would say, is Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady. I don't care about the rings. I just think Manning always had a. Brady had a better team. So I think that, like, no one ever agrees with me, but I think Peyton Manning's better than Brady.
- [85:05]
A
But hey, we're going with it. I'm not here to disagree. What's one moment in your career when you, when you knew that you proved somebody wrong or you proved people wrong wrong? That felt good.
- [85:17]
B
I would say, honestly, just probably this year, you know, for sure, you know, I had a lot of people that weren't my family, but then people I knew in tennis that had told me to stop playing. And, you know, by that time you become 29, 30, where people, you know, tennis, you're, you're used to having people around, but people will always almost like overshare. You get used to people kind of like, like talking to you. You know, it could be casual fans or just people, parents you barely know, you know, but they're a little bit older, so you kind of respect. But they try to give you like, guidance on how to live your life. And at that time was when people are starting to tell you, you know, stop playing and this and that, looking at things. So this year, 100%. Because there's a time where you're old enough to, where you feel like you should be doing something, well, there's that pressure. But it's also, you know, the time where or you're not 21, 22, and if people tell you stop playing or you're like, you know what? I got time. You're more like, you know what? There's a lot of people that have tried to like, influence your opinion to do something else. It just wasn't meant for you, you know, you had a tough road, whatever. But yeah, I just never, never wanted to listen to that.
- [86:27]
A
Well, Done. If you could steal one shot from another player in history and add it to your game, what would it be and why?
- [86:36]
B
John Isner served because I think it's the best shot in the history of tennis.
- [86:40]
A
You'd win some doubles matches with that, wouldn't you? You know?
- [86:43]
B
Yeah.
- [86:44]
A
Roger or Rafa.
- [86:46]
B
I always love Roger. I just like the way he played. You know, I just, just, I love, I love watching Roger play.
- [86:55]
A
Serena or Venus. You must have hit with those girls a bitter with him.
- [87:02]
B
It's just like I like Venus. I pick her only just because I feel like she just always like seems so supportive. Like Serena's just Serena won so much and just dominated for so long. So I'm like, you know what? Serena's got that going for him. But Venus also like found a way too like that. I just seem like she just always seemed like even happier than Serena when Serena won one somehow. And I always like, yeah, I, I really admire that about her.
- [87:33]
A
Can't believe you went for the older sibling.
- [87:35]
B
Yeah, but you gotta sometimes the older sib. The older siblings sometimes have it tough too, you know.
- [87:41]
A
And the medical timeout or not.
- [87:44]
B
No, I don't agree. Yeah, I would say no medical timeout.
- [87:48]
A
Why?
- [87:49]
B
Just because you've started the match. I think sometimes the rule gets abused and I think once you've started the match, like, like any serious injury you're not going to fix on within three minutes. You know, injuries take a long time to heal and there's no injury that you're going to, that you're going to fix within three minutes. You know, there's just impossible unless it's like, you know, something where it's like an obvious like scrape where somebody's bleeding that you know, you can, that just needs to wrap up. But if it's like for injury of like something that's like my knee or this or that, like, like I just, yeah, I, I, I just, I think you're not going to really fix an injury within three minutes.
- [88:29]
A
I'm with you. 90% of tennis players say yes, you should have it that have come on this podcast. Yeah, but I'm, I'm with you. What's one rule change you would have in tennis?
- [88:39]
B
I would say no lets because you don't play them in the Once the
- [88:45]
A
point started I again I agree with that one. Especially in you know, obviously college has got a it tennis Europe, itf, juniors,
- [88:53]
B
all the ways to seed up the game too. And there's so many times I'm stretching, I'm like, you know, What I'm gonna wait till, I'm gonna hold this position till after, like the point and then it's a let. I'm like, damn, now I gotta go another 30 seconds.
- [89:08]
A
I see how your brain works. Yeah, I, I do that in the gym sometimes on a, on a, on a match or I'll, I'll stop on this machine when the set finishes, guarantee it's like a 1412 in the 13. And, and my last question, who, who should our next guest be on controller controllables.
- [89:26]
B
I say Robert Cash because I like him a lot. He was part of a very successful team this year with Tracy. I think Robert Cash, if I'm not mistaken, could have gone to medical school.
- [89:41]
A
Okay.
- [89:42]
B
I believe, and I believe he's put it on hold or something. I'll have to get the details on that. But from what I've heard, I believe. And he.
- [89:49]
A
We'll get the details on here. You hook it up, you set it up. I'll, I'll find out.
- [89:54]
B
I'll find out all about choosing to play doubles, which has been seen as the less, you know, way to go, like in tennis. But what he also could have chosen to do right out of school, you know, would have been very successful. So obviously he's, I think, has a lot of insights to figure out what, what's given him so much joy about playing double. And he's so good at it. I think that would be a great, great person to talk to. Awesome.
- [90:20]
A
We will be in touch to see if you can hook that up for us. Christian, you're an absolute star. Thank you for coming on.
- [90:27]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [90:28]
A
So there we have it. Our Last guest of 2025 and what a great way to go out. And before I move on to wish you guys a big Merry Christmas, it's just about saying what a brilliant guest Christian was. You know, I've got to know him quite well over 2025. He talked there quite candidly about his relationship with Michael Venus, who I coached for, for the majority of 2025. And I always think in the tennis world, when you've got a player, that one is the level of Christian. You know, he's a fantastic tennis player and if you ever get a chance to watch him, the serious ball speed comes off his racket. He's a good looking boy. He's got a lot of things going in his favor. Yeah, he holds that thing that we all value so much, just humility in, in everything he does. He's one of the hardest workers on the tour and to hear his story, all the injuries that he's come back from. To have that relationship as well, I think with his brother is quite special, you know, because it's very easy, I think, to feel a little bit like you're inferior when you have a brother who was such a high level as a junior. But I think all of those things sum Christian up extremely well. And then for British tennis fans, it's exc because they get to watch him alongside Neil Skupsky, certainly for the first part of 2026, and I have no doubt that they will be a formidable pair on the ATP tour this year. So a big, big thanks for Christian. He's someone I'd love to get on again down the line because I think he's got so many different angles that we can, we can get to with Christian and so many learnings to take from it. But wherever you are in the world, wishing you a fantastic festive period with your family, with your friends. Thank you for all of your support. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are controller controllables.