45:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0za7dr7c2y81~.js","/_next/static/chunks/03klviw01y.ih.js","/_next/static/chunks/0gx_3vy1-syt4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 47:I[63625,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0za7dr7c2y81~.js","/_next/static/chunks/03klviw01y.ih.js","/_next/static/chunks/0gx_3vy1-syt4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"AddToLibraryButton"] 48:I[29721,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0za7dr7c2y81~.js","/_next/static/chunks/03klviw01y.ih.js","/_next/static/chunks/0gx_3vy1-syt4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"ShareButton"] 49:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0za7dr7c2y81~.js","/_next/static/chunks/03klviw01y.ih.js","/_next/static/chunks/0gx_3vy1-syt4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 4a:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0za7dr7c2y81~.js","/_next/static/chunks/03klviw01y.ih.js","/_next/static/chunks/0gx_3vy1-syt4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"SignupCTA"] 3e:["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2026-02-05T10:14:24.000Z","children":"February 5, 2026"}] 3f:["$","span",null,{"aria-hidden":true,"children":"·"}] 40:["$","span",null,{"children":"01:48:49"}] 46:T4a5,

In this episode, Xavier Bonilla has a dialogue with Hugo Drochon about elites and democracy. They discuss how elites always rule in democracies, why we need elites, dynamic democracy, social movements, distrust of elites, Nietzsche’s eternal return and circulation of elites, elites in non-democratic societies, and many more topics.

Hugo Drochon is a political theorist and historian. He has his PhD from Cambridge and completed his postdoctoral fellowship there as well. He has also had fellowships at Yale, Princeton, and Royal Historical Society. His main interests are in Nietzsche’s politics, democratic theory, and liberalism. He is the author of, Nietzsche’s Great Politics and the latest book, Elites and Democracy.

Get full access to Converging Dialogues at convergingdialogues.substack.com/subscribe