Conversations with Tyler 2025 Retrospective
Podcast: Conversations with Tyler
Host: Tyler Cowen (A), Lead Producer Jeff Holmes (B)
Date: December 23, 2025
Summary prepared for listeners seeking a comprehensive review of the episode’s substance (advertisements, intros, and outros omitted).
Overview: Reflecting on a Decade and a Prolific Year
This special retrospective brings together Tyler Cowen and producer Jeff Holmes to review the highlights of the past year (and decade) of Conversations with Tyler. The conversation covers guest and episode rankings, lessons learned, the evolving production process (especially with AI), underrated gems, audience questions, and Tyler’s annual pop culture picks. The discussion is richly peppered with Tyler’s characteristic candor and insight.
Year in Review: An Unprecedented Pace and Quality
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Record Output
- This year, the show released its highest-ever count: 36 episodes (up from the standard 24).
- Tyler also worked on the Marginal Revolution Podcast (6 episodes in season two).
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Did Quantity Harm Quality?
- Jeff (B): “Did that come at the cost of quality or do you feel good about this roster?” (03:00)
- Tyler (A): “I thought it was a very good year ... maybe three were not great and the others were... good through excellent.” (03:02)
- Credit attributed to the diversity and expertise of the guests.
Popular and Underrated Episodes: The Numbers and Their Stories
Tyler’s Predictions and Reflections
- Predicted Top Episode:
- “I'll predict a clear winner will be Sam Altman...” (03:48)
- Underrated Picks (per Tyler):
- Johnny Steinberg (on South Africa): “All of his answers were deep and thoughtful.” (04:16)
- Ian Leslie (on the Beatles): “Very good... truly a popular culture topic.” (04:30)
- Amy Austin (YouTube/gaming): “Excellent and magical at times.” (04:34)
- Jeff: “Austin did well. Still one of my underrated picks for the year.... As it turns out a popular YouTuber appearing on your YouTube channel is very good for you.” (04:49)
- David Robertson (classical music conductor): “Probably way less popular than average, but he was very good.” (05:35)
Insight: Value of Single-Subject Episodes
Jeff: “The single subject episodes were actually some of the best this year... pick this person's brain about the thing they know well.” (05:43)
Examples include David Commons on Saudi Arabia, Lopez on Buddhism, Dan Wang (with extended debate), and Cass Sunstein on liberalism.
Tyler: “I learn more from the prep because I know what to prepare... But they are much harder preps, like the Buddhism prep. That was a good four or five months for me.” (07:39)
Memorable Quotes
- “How violent Buddhism is, that Buddhism is shrinking somewhat... what I would call American Buddhism, while itself interesting... is not actual Buddhism.” (08:02, Tyler)
Big Names vs. Eclectic Mix
- Name recognition still predicts popularity:
- “It’s more about name recognition coming in... it’s gonna be Sam Altman. It’s gonna be the big names.” (11:09)
- “Even who are the big names is a little hard to say. Right. Like Ezra Klein, big name. Right.” (11:27)
Listener Q&A: Candid and Wide-Ranging
AI Surprises and Podcast Production
Patrick McKenzie: Biggest AI surprises and impact on production? (12:17)
- Tyler: “How good the O3 model was... by the old definition of AGI that is just as good as human experts is largely true.” (12:17)
- “We could not have done as many episodes as we did had it not been for large language models. So it did change the production function.” (13:15)
On AI in Workflow:
- Jeff: “Brainstorming new guests... Some prompting techniques necessary to avoid only getting big names and repeats.” (14:14)
The Elusive Magnus Carlsen Episode
Tyler: “Had a very good dinner with Magnus... His wife had a baby with, I would call, imperfect timing (for us). There's a good chance it will still happen... I give it 50:50.” (15:09)
Interview Styles and Laughter
- On interviewer role reversal: “Anyone who I think would be good at that. So many, many guests... I'm very open to that.” (16:49)
- On Tyler’s reserved affect:
- “Probably the correct answer is never. Like, literally never in my life [uncontrollable laughter].” (28:49)
- “Isn't uncontrollable laughter in some ways a kind of displeasure? I don't know, since I've never had it.” (29:32)
On AI Risk Dialogue
- “People who are more worried about AI risk than I am should try to go through peer review and develop a literature... as far as I can tell, they still refuse to do this...” (21:19)
- “Peer review is super useful. You have things where there's a deliberate exchange... And it works for every other science. It's worked for climate change.” (22:21)
- “I volunteered to do some refereeing for free. I'm still waiting for the phone to ring, to use the proverbial metaphor.” (23:34)
On Hotels and Travel
- “Is there a swimming pool? Are there enough outlets in the room?... Is the pillow sufficiently flat?” (17:13)
- “I swim every day. If I'm away from home, if I have a pool. Okay, absolutely.” (18:17)
On Honesty with Influence
- “When I was recording with Alison Gopnik, I accused her of laboring under delusions. And I actually don't think I would have said that 10 years ago. So maybe in some ways I'm more honest.” (18:40)
Moderation & Speech Online
- “If some big tech company... decides they want to take content down. I'm not like, ooh, boo hoo, free speech. I'm like, yes... It just doesn't bother me at all.” (31:29)
- “We should be very tolerant of more dominant suppliers doing the same thing.” (32:34)
Pop Culture Picks: Revisiting 2015
Movies
- “This was the worst year for movies since I have been watching them... very little on it that has stuck with me.” (35:50)
- Picks: American Sniper, Red Army (“the best movie that year”), Ex Machina (“good, not great”), Meru (“behavioral economics on the screen”), Sicario (“good, but it feels like a tired theme”).
- On Pixar/Inside Out: “A lot of Pixar seems worse... at the time I loved it.” (36:44)
Nonfiction Books
- “[Robert] Toombs’... English history... is probably the clear winner for best book of that year, and everyone should read it.” (40:49)
- Other key mentions: Ashley Vance’s Elon Musk biography, Charles Moore’s Margaret Thatcher bio (“one of the best biographies of the last 10 years”).
- “Mercantilism to me looks worse than it did 10 years ago, now that I have to live under it.” (41:40)
Fiction
- Michel Houellebecq’s Submission: “The most classic work of fiction of the last 20 years, I would say... In a sense, it’s a work of philosophy.” (43:35)
- Noted as a “stellar year for fiction,” also citing The Mersault Investigation.
Music
- “A big chunk of rap and R&B centered around Kanye West, Frank Ocean, Kendrick Lamar, Drake, and D’Angelo… It was a peak time for that kind of work.” (45:10)
- “It’s over... Maybe now it's country western. I'm not sure.” (45:30)
- Choral music with Rick Rubin: “That blend between the two of us, he wanting the pure [choral sound], I'm always wanting something weirder sounding, I thought made a very good podcast.” (47:09)
2025’s Top Episodes: Ranking by Listenership
Announced after a time gap during Tyler’s travels (from Oman):
Top 10 (First Week Podcast Downloads)
- Sam Altman
- Ezra Klein
- Steven Pinker
- David Brooks
- Nate Silver
- Jack Clark
- David Commons (“I like that episode a lot, but I thought it would be about the least popular of the whole year.” – Tyler)
- Blake Scholl
- Annie Jacobson
- John Arnold
- Tyler: “It’s just celebrity here, right?... There’s market failure here. The famous people are getting more fame. This is the Matthew effect. I thought one of our purposes was to counteract this trend.” (51:28)
- Only David Commons stands out as a relative “unknown” in the top 10.
Tyler’s Travel and Reading Habits
- On planes: “Pretty much always reading... 80-85% just reading books.” (54:55)
- On driving: “If I’m with someone, I’ll just talk to the person. If I’m alone, satellite radio (music). I don’t like listening to podcasts while I drive.” (54:55)
- Visiting Oman: “Maybe it's the most relaxed part of the Persian Gulf... People here seem happier. Not that uptight... It’s comfortable, it’s quite safe.” (48:29, 56:06)
Memorable Moments
- On uncontrollable laughter: “Like, things just aren't that funny... funniness. There's a maximum. It does not bring me to uncontrollable laughter.” (28:49)
- On AI in scholarly debate: “The spontaneous order... wisdom embedded in a literature is just sorely lacking here.” (24:07)
- On the future of writing and knowledge: “That you need to be writing all the time, that should never go away... I strongly believe... in the process for humans and not just the outcome.” (25:39)
- On hotel choice simplicity: “Most of my travel is connected to events and the hotel is chosen for me... Is there a swimming pool?... Is the pillow sufficiently flat?” (17:13)
Acknowledgments and Community
- Listener & Donor Thank-Yous: The episode ends with a shoutout to donors and the production team.
- Tyler: “It’s very important to me personally that I’m able to continue doing this, so I’m extremely grateful.” (58:05)
Conclusion
The 2025 Retrospective is a candid, self-reflective, encyclopedic recap not just of the podcast’s trajectory—its hit episodes, hidden gems, and production evolution—but also a rich, idiosyncratic tour of Tyler Cowen’s intellectual world. For new listeners, it’s a window into the show’s interview philosophy and evolving style; for regulars, a treasure trove of recommendations, inside jokes, and thoughtful answers to both weighty and whimsical questions. As Tyler enters a second podcasting decade, the underlying theme is one of curiosity, rigor, and the ongoing quest for conversations that matter.
Notable Quotes (with timestamps):
- “Maybe the biggest surprise in AI was how good the O3 model was, which I called AGI at the time...” – Tyler (12:17)
- “It just seemed so egregiously off to me... And it is her field, right. If someone else said that, whatever. But it's the main thing she works on.” – Tyler (19:24, on pressing Alison Gopnik)
- “For someone to adopt some version of my style, they both need to be strong enough intellectually to be a guest, but also deferential enough to want to be a host... it’s a weird personality quirk of mine.” – Tyler (27:46)
- “Peer review is super useful... and it works for every other science. It’s worked for climate change.” – Tyler (22:21)
- “How violent Buddhism is, that Buddhism is shrinking somewhat... what I would call American Buddhism, while itself interesting... is not actual Buddhism.” – Tyler (08:02)
- “There’s market failure here. The famous people are getting more fame. This is the Matthew effect. I thought one of our purposes was to counteract this trend.” – Tyler (51:40)
- “No, it’s possible [I’ve laughed uncontrollably], I can’t rule it out, but I don’t recall it.” – Tyler (30:57)
Timestamps for Key Segments:
- [03:00] Discussion on episode quality and output
- [04:16] Underrated episodes of 2025
- [12:17] AI surprises and production impact
- [18:40] Honesty versus caution with influence
- [21:19] Productive discourse on AI risk
- [35:50] 2015 movie picks
- [40:49] Best nonfiction of 2015
- [43:35] Best fiction of 2015
- [45:10] 2015 in music
- [48:29] Oman trip and top 10 2025 episodes