Conversations with Tyler: Noam Chomsky on Language, Left Libertarianism, and Progress

Date: June 14, 2023
Host: Tyler Cowen (A)
Guest: Noam Chomsky (B)
Produced by: Mercatus Center, George Mason University

Overview

In this episode, Tyler Cowen sits down with Noam Chomsky for a wide-ranging exploration of linguistics, the nature of liberty, critiques of technology and media, left libertarianism, progress in social justice, and Chomsky's personal reflections on activism and intellectual life. The conversation skillfully bridges Chomsky's foundational linguistics work with his influential political thought, challenged by Cowen’s incisive questions on contemporary issues, the legacy of leftism, and future prospects for human development.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Linguistics, Language, and Liberty

[00:39 – 05:42]

• Connection to Wilhelm von Humboldt:

  • Chomsky highlights the shared principle between himself and Humboldt: the “right of every person to be free from illegitimate external constraints” and the “instinct for freedom” intrinsic to human nature.
    • Quote: “The fundamental right of every person is to be free from external, illegitimate constraints, free to inquire, create, pursue people, to pursue their own interests and concerns without arbitrary authority of any sort restricting and limiting them.” (B, 01:28)

• Human Creativity and Language:

  • Human language allows for “infinite use of finite means.” The capacity for endless creativity is uniquely human and is now better understood thanks to theories of computation (Gödel, Turing).
    • Quote: “The fundamental property of human language is this unique capacity to create unboundedly many new thoughts...” (B, 03:12)

• Platonism, Leibniz, and Evolution:

  • Chomsky situates himself in the tradition that sees language and thought as properties intrinsic to human nature, shaped by evolutionary processes, not as an evolved communication system from animal ancestors.

2. Critique of Evolutionary Theories of Language

[05:42 – 12:14]

• Misunderstandings of Evolution:

  • Chomsky clarifies he is not skeptical of evolutionary approaches per se, but of “misunderstandings of evolution” that assume language evolved solely as communication, like animal signaling systems.
  • He supports the view that language arose suddenly with Homo sapiens, with no analog in the animal world, and is a species property unaffected by natural selection in the simplistic Darwinian sense.
    • Quote: “There seems to be no distinction among living humans in this regard, including the descendants of those who separated maybe 150,000 years ago. That indicates that these capacities were already in place before the separation.” (B, 09:33)

• Archaeological Evidence:

  • The sudden emergence of symbolic activity, such as cave paintings, supports the view that language (and the associated cognitive revolution) distinguished modern humans from their ancestors rapidly and totally.

3. Chomsky on AI and Large Language Models

[12:14 – 15:55]

• Criticisms of Large Language Models (LLMs):
  • Chomsky concedes that LLMs (e.g., ChatGPT) achieve statistical competence but are fundamentally incapable of capturing the true nature of human language and thought, since they work equally well on nonsense or “impossible” languages.
    • Quote: “They work just as well for impossible languages as for possible languages... would tell us nothing about chemistry. That’s what large language models are.” (B, 13:13)
  • LLMs lack the built-in biological constraints and reflexes that make natural language acquisition possible for humans but impossible for animals.

4. The Manufacturing of Consent, Media, and Power

[15:55 – 21:51]

• Origin of 'Manufacturing Consent':
  • Chomsky attributes the phrase to Walter Lippman and describes its meaning: a system where elites shape public opinion through propaganda, facilitated by media structures and “necessary illusions.”
    • Quote: “Lippman called it a new art in the practice of democracy... the public have to be, can be spectators, but not participants in action.” (B, 18:08)
  • He connects this idea to the consistent separation of the economy and broader public affairs, enshrined by liberal economists and intellectuals.

5. Optimism, Crisis, and Social Progress

[21:51 – 27:08]

• Balance of Pessimism and Optimism:
  • Chomsky is cautious, citing existential threats like nuclear war and environmental destruction, but finds hope in historical and ongoing popular activism, especially among young people.
    • Quote: “If you look over history, people have organized, resisted, stood up, overthrown repressive autocratic structures, created a broader reign of freedom and justice.” (B, 23:07)
  • He references civil rights advances since the 1960s as evidence that progress comes through struggle.

6. Nuclear Weapons and Public Attitudes

[27:08 – 29:31]

• Critique of Nuclear Policy and Public Indifference:
  • Game-theoretic analysis (à la Schelling) is dismissed as academic while the reality—actual nuclear war—remains “literally insane.”
    • Quote: “Even contemplating the possibility of nuclear war is insane. Literally insane.” (B, 27:14)
  • Alarm at public and media neglect of existential issues like nuclear war, as seen in public polling priorities.

7. Left Libertarianism, Political Change, and the Legacy of the New Left

[29:31 – 38:15]

• Persistence of the New Left:

  • Chomsky disputes the idea that left libertarianism is weak today, citing its impact on societal norms, even if the movement splintered.
    • Quote: “It's not a movement, but it’s all over the place. It’s changed the way we see and think of things. Almost everybody.” (B, 30:36)

• Left Critiques vs. Right Populism:

  • Comparison of “deep state” rhetoric is misleading; the current right merely co-opts anti-elite language without substance, serving elite interests.
    • Quote: “The right wing of the Republican Party are just servile worshipers of the very rich.” (B, 33:08)

• Flirtation with Maoism:

  • Chomsky explains some intellectuals’ brief interest in Maoism as naive or based on incomplete information, and notes Kissinger’s admiration for Mao was even stronger.

8. Debates on Cuba, Nicaragua, and Panama

[38:15 – 44:12]

• Circumstances of Latin American Countries:

  • Chomsky challenges comparative claims about progress, emphasizing US intervention as a destructive force in Nicaragua and Cuba’s relative success (under severe US sanctions) in health and scientific development.
    • Quote: “Despite US sanctions... if you look at things like health statistics, quality of life and so on, it’s one of the best in the hemisphere, even better than ours.” (B, 43:35)

• US Policy and International Isolation:

  • The US enforces sanctions globally, making independent development for nations like Cuba extraordinarily difficult.

9. Reflections on Influence, Method, and Personal Practice

[44:12 – 49:54]

• Admiration for Young Activists:

  • Chomsky avoids ranking individual thinkers, stating his greatest admiration is for grassroots activists battling existential crises.

• Intellectual Vitality:

  • Commitment to intellectual and political work driven by the “overwhelming” nature of today’s problems.
    • Quote: “We now have to decide within a couple of decades whether the human experiment is going to continue or whether it’ll go down in glorious disaster.” (B, 46:02)

• Practice of Responding to Emails:

  • “Because I take people seriously. I think people deserve respect.” (B, 47:26)

• Biggest Misconceptions:

  • Misconceptions propagated by media, such as misrepresenting his positions on Ukraine.

• Biggest Mistakes:

  • Regret not being involved earlier in anti-Vietnam-war activism; stresses the importance of early action.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Language:
  • “Language enables what he [Humboldt] called infinite use of finite means.” (B, 03:29)
• On Technology:
  • “[LLMs] tell us nothing about language. There is some... innate capacities. There’s something about a genetic endowment that determines that the embryo grows arms, not wings. And there’s something about the genetic endowment that says that an infant... can instantly pick out parts of the noise that surrounds it and say to itself, those parts are language.” (B, 14:25)
• On Social Progress:
  • “It happened by lots of popular struggle. You go back in history, there’s more and more examples of that.” (B, 24:53)
• On Nuclear War:
  • “Even contemplating the possibility of nuclear war is insane.” (B, 27:14)
• On Left Ideas and Power:
  • “Unpopular ideas can be suppressed without the use of force, just because of the class nature of the society and the subordination of intellectuals to power.” (B, 31:35)
• On Responding to People:
  • “Because I take people seriously. I think people deserve respect.” (B, 47:26)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 00:39–05:42| Language and Liberty, Platonism, and Humboldt | | 05:42–12:14| Evolution of Language & Critique of Darwinism | | 12:14–15:55| Critique of Large Language Models (AI) | | 15:55–21:51| Manufacturing Consent and Roles of Media | | 21:51–27:08| Optimism, Social Progress, and Existential Threats| | 27:08–29:31| Nuclear Weapons and Public Priorities | | 29:31–38:15| Left Libertarianism, New Left, and Maoism | | 38:15–44:12| US Policy in Latin America (Nicaragua, Cuba, etc.)| | 44:12–49:54| Chomsky’s Influences, Practice, and Reflections |

Conclusion

This episode frames Chomsky’s undiminished energy and critical thought, connecting deep theoretical perspectives to urgent contemporary problems. Whether defending linguistic creativity, skewering political propaganda, or calling for grassroots action in the face of existential threats, Chomsky’s insights challenge listeners to examine the structures that bind or liberate human potential.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking a substantive overview and thematic roadmap of the discussion between Tyler Cowen and Noam Chomsky on Conversations with Tyler (June 14, 2023).