Dustin Everett of Fish Cheeks

Summary

Cooking Issues with Dave Arnold

Episode: Dustin Everett of Fish Cheeks
Date: July 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode welcomes Dustin Everett, chef and partner at Fish Cheeks (NYC and Miami), to the standard roundtable of food nerds led by Dave Arnold. Joined by co-hosts and regulars (Quinn, Joe Hazen, and occasional guest input), the discussion ranges from kitchen horror stories, international food experiences, and kitchen tech, to deep practical culinary science. The episode explores insights into restaurant and cooking culture, Southeast Asian food, the joys and frustrations of fish bones, shifting technology in professional kitchens, and Everett’s career journey through the lens of current restaurant culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Wellness and Ulcer Stories (02:04 - 10:18)

• Opens with the group discussing recent health issues: colonoscopies, endoscopies, and stomach ulcers.
• Medical journeys, including H. pylori, treatments, and the camaraderie of shared gut struggles.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dave Arnold: “It’s the ulcer family.” [05:47]
  • Dave Arnold on colonoscopy prep: “You’re like a swimming pool on the inside. You’re totally clear… You basically take a book into the bathroom and you sit there and… take care of everything.” [06:37]
• Discussion of regional differences in medical prep—pills in LA vs. traditional liquid in NY.
• Discussion turns to the suffering of pre-procedure fasting; only yellow Jell-O and broth allowed with jokes about urine mimicry in commercial coloring.

2. Recent Travels & European Food Experiences (10:34 – 14:39)

• Joe Hazen shares about his recent trip to Portugal and London:
  • Portuguese rice and fish stew (Arroz de Marisco), rustic bread, olive oil, and coriander.
  • The Portuguese sardine sandwich ritual (whole, pan-fried, not boned) and confusion about “boned” vs. “boneless.”
• Family travel discussion in UK restaurants, changing family-friendliness (“the English are just too polite” [11:34-12:01]).
• Food Pro Insight: Segment on the significance (and customer expectations) of bone removal in fish, chicken, and seafood service.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dustin Everett: “One person gets one little pin bone that I missed out of, I saw 120 to 160 of these a day. One. And then it’s the first thing on a review…” [16:18]

3. Eating with Hands – Bones, Shells & Food Culture (17:13 - 20:39)

• Discussion about bone-in vs. boneless eating, hand-eating cultures, and the “American” aversion to picking at bones.
• Cross-cultural hand foods (Kenyan and Ethiopian traditions, masa-like starches, sticky rice in Thailand and SE Asia).
• Sticky rice prep – traditional techniques vs. modern equipment and why old school can often be objectively better.

4. Traditional Techniques vs. Kitchen Technology (20:52 – 26:48)

• How young cooks get too reliant on combi ovens, CVAPs, sous vide, etc.; losing "the old ways" of knowing how to cook when machines break.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dave Arnold: “This is the problem with science… unless there’s an industrial monetary reason… no one will check and see whether or not something has a [better] way.” [22:31]
  • Dustin Everett: “It’s taken a lot of cooking out of a lot of chefs… I take pride… because now everything is such… it’s the scientific… it’s taking the mistakes out.” [25:18]

5. Symbol vs. Flavor: Grill Marks & Restaurant Theatre (26:00)

• Extended metaphor: grill marks are like fake gabled roofs—don’t symbolize without function.
• Dave Arnold: “Be what you are… unless you put [food] on a grill long enough to flavor the outside, it’s the same thing as one of those roofs on a strip mall.” [26:29]

6. The Portugal Seafood Deep-Dive (26:56 – 28:54)

• Hazen describes Portuguese clams (likely cockles), sardine sandwiches, and octopus techniques (beating and line-drying for tenderness, using rocks and “washing machine” methods).
• Everett shares firsthand experience of seeing these techniques in Portugal.

7. Squid, Fish Cheeks, and Everett’s Approach (28:45 – 33:44)

• Discussion about Fish Cheeks restaurants, locations, and Everett’s menu.
• Debate: Frozen vs. fresh squid – why Everett uses frozen for fried calamari (“it’s tender”), but fresh for ink dishes.
• Dave Arnold shares anecdote about Josh Niland’s waterless fish butchery in Sydney.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dave Arnold: “They do all of their cleaning with paper towels. Including squid. If I told you you’re gonna clean this squid with no water… you would punch me.” [30:27]
• Technical talk: Osmosis and “dried” fish, the effects of fresh water/rinsing on fish storage and flavor.

8. Experimental Cooking & Noodle Pedantry (34:12 – 39:14)

• Quinn describes a basil-less “green pesto” featuring Swiss chard, scallion greens, pistachio, and sweet potato noodles—sparking debate on what qualifies as “pesto.”
• Philosophical aside: Where does a green paste stop being pesto and start becoming a “saag” or something else?
• Recollections of veggie trends: the rise and fall of Swiss chard and colored cauliflower.

9. Neighborhoods, Restaurant Real Estate, and Gentrification (43:23 – 44:59)

• Riff on the endless search for affordable NYC neighborhoods as Brooklyn and Williamsburg become unaffordable; Norwalk, CT, dubbed the “Williamsburg of Connecticut” (with skepticism).
• Joking that soon only “Long Island or Staten Island” will be left.

10. Advanced Bread Experiments (45:21 – 47:39)

• Quinn’s failed bread involving fresh-milled flour, cultured butter, and buttermilk. Discussion on gluten structure challenges when acid and bran are both present.
• Arnold gives troubleshooting tips, emphasizing controlling variables (“if you’re challenging the gluten and you’re adding bran at the same time, you’ve double challenged your gluten” [46:19]).

11. Patreon and Liquid Intelligence Data (48:48 – 51:56)

• Updates for Patreon members: Data spreadsheets covering sugar and alcohol content for cocktail development, request for beta-testing, and future resource plans.
• Dave reveals his old career as an Access database designer for lawyers.

12. Chef Dustin’s Journey: Sambar & Restaurant Culture (52:44 – 57:44)

• Recollections from Momofuku Sambar (NYC), including the chaos and fun in joint spaces, the rise/fall of duck, rotisserie stories, and memories of Christina Tosi (Milk Bar) and the first NYC HACCP plans.
• Dustin’s early career at John Besh’s Restaurant August in New Orleans: discussing the fallout for cooks who worked under later-canceled chefs and how kitchen cultures have changed.
• Dustin: “You stop talking about it… I don’t put it out a lot anymore… Especially when the stuff like that getting canceled… I was long gone when all that happened.” [56:35]

13. Evolving Kitchen Management Styles (57:51 – 59:50)

• Everett reflects on the difference between necessary stress and excessive, toxic pressure. Nowadays, he aims to “take it and… slowly bring it onto them,” providing support but not insanity.
• Dustin: “Happy kitchen, happy food. The more stressed you are, the more mistakes happen… just a handshake or a please and thank you goes a long way.” [58:25, 59:41]

14. Rapid-Fire: Thai Ingredients & Fish Cheeks Menu (60:01 – 63:35)

• Thai soy paste: Everett mixes cuisines/products; nothing is sacred if the flavor fits.
• Fish Cheeks chicken wings: Marinated overnight, bake then flash-fried, tossed in “Zab” seasoning—includes toasted rice powder, makrut lime leaf, lemongrass, galangal, dehydrated lime, and secret ingredients. Not breaded, double-cooked for crispness.
• “Thai oyster dog”: Fried oyster dusted in pork rind powder, cold-smoked for a hot-dog-like effect, mango-acid for brightness, Nam Jim seafood relish; a cross-cultural and culinary mind-bender.
• Wild Edibles nostalgia—lamenting loss of high-quality fish sources for home cooks.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “It’s the ulcer family.” – Dave Arnold [05:47]
• “You’re like a swimming pool on the inside… you have to take what amounts to like 5 gallons of Pedialyte on a stove and reduce it down to a tiny cup.” – Dave Arnold [06:36]
• “One person gets one little pin bone that I missed out of… one. And then it’s the first thing on a review.” – Dustin Everett [16:18]
• “People assume you’re trying to murder them [if you leave a fish bone].” – Dave Arnold [17:13]
• “This is the problem with science… unless there’s an industrial monetary reason… no one will check and see whether or not something has a [better] way.” – Dave Arnold [22:31]
• “Be what you are… unless you put [food] on a grill long enough to flavor the outside, it’s the same thing as one of those roofs on a strip mall.” – Dave Arnold [26:29]
• “They do all their cleaning with paper towels. Including squid.” – Dave Arnold [30:27]
• “Frozen calamari…it’s the best.” – Dustin Everett [33:21]
• “I make all my bartenders read your Liquid Intelligence.” – Dustin Everett [51:07]
• “You stop talking about it… I don’t put it out a lot anymore… Especially when the stuff like that getting canceled…” – Dustin Everett, on working for John Besh [56:35]
• “Happy kitchen, happy food. The more stressed you are, the more mistakes happen.” – Dustin Everett [58:25]
• “Chicken wings. Zab powder. That’s it.” – Dustin Everett [60:57]
• “It tastes almost like a hot dog, but it’s oysters.” – Dustin Everett [62:43]

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:00-02:03: [Ads/Intro]
• 02:03-10:18: Health updates, colonoscopy/ulcer banter, group camaraderie
• 10:34-14:39: Portugal trip recap, family & food reflections
• 14:40-18:31: Fish bones, hands vs. utensils, culture
• 18:32-22:31: Sticky rice, real cooking vs. tech reliance
• 22:31-26:48: Traditional tech vs. combi-ovens; hands-on skill vs. automation
• 26:49-28:54: Portugal seafood, octopus prep
• 28:55-33:44: Everett on Fish Cheeks, squid, waterless cleaning, frozen/fresh trade-offs
• 33:45-39:14: Pesto debates, “paste” philosophy, veggie phase jokes
• 43:23-44:59: NYC real estate, Norwalk = Williamsburg?
• 45:08-47:39: Experimental bread, gluten structure troubleshooting
• 48:48-51:56: Patreon, Liquid Intelligence data
• 52:44-57:44: Dustin’s career, Sambar, Momofuku, Milk Bar backstories, kitchen culture
• 57:51-59:50: Healthy kitchen management philosophy
• 60:01-63:42: Thai paste, Fish Cheeks menu, oyster hot dog, Wild Edibles nostalgia
• 63:42-end: [Ads/Outro]

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In Summary

This episode is a quintessential Cooking Issues mash-up: equal parts practical kitchen know-how and boisterous food philosophy, scaffolded by personal stories and technical deep-dives. Dustin Everett adds authenticity from years on the line at some of the nation’s top restaurants, and the regulars keep things grounded in both nerdy analysis and classic "kitchen confessional" humor. Highly recommended for pros and home cooks who want the real deal on restaurant operations, modern food scenes, and honest chef talk.

Transcript

[Dave Arnold]

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[Dustin Everett]

Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues.

[Dave Arnold]

This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan. Rockefeller Center, New York City Newsstand studios. No John in the house today, but I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?

[Joe Hazen]

Hey. Hey.

[Dave Arnold]

Welcome to the show.

[Joe Hazen]

Sorry for the delay. We're all here though.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, well, it's delayed. But on the other hand it's also a day early, so we're 23 hours and however many minutes early. So you know, there's that on the upper left we got Quinn. How you doing?

[Quinn]

I'm doing all right.

[Dave Arnold]

Good, good, good. And then down. Actually not in Los Angeles. On the road somewhere. I'm not sure where. We have Nastasia, the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?

[Quinn]

I'm good. I have to go.

[Dave Arnold]

What state are you in right now?

[Quinn]

New York.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, but like, not like New York. Upstate, as they call it. Right.

[Quinn]

Finger Lakes.

[Dave Arnold]

Finger Lakes. And how do you like in the Finger Lakes region?

[Quinn]

Oh, we don't get to do anything.

[Dave Arnold]

Did you even drive past the lake?

[Quinn]

No.

[Dave Arnold]

No. Are you familiar with the anti Finger Lakes rhyme and also anti Cornell rhyme? It goes like this. Way up by Cayuga's waters. That's one of the Finger Lakes. Way up by Cayuga's waters, there is an awful smell. Some say it's Cayuga's waters. Some say it's Cornell. You like that? Anyway, I didn't write that. I had a history professor in high school who used to a huge percentage of my high school, for some reason, I went to high school just north of the city. Went to Cornell. Crazy number. And he just used to say that rhyme constantly. Literally, like every week, apropos of nothing. We'd be talking about, I don't know, Civil War. And he's like, you know what? And he would just bust out. Anti Cornell rhyme. So weird. I'm sure Mr. Damon is no longer with us, but anyhow. All right. And we got Jackie Molecules as well, back in Los Angeles now. Everything good?

[Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

How's your exclusion diet treating you? Are you excluding joy from your diet? Have you excluded joy yet? That'll make your insides feel so much better if you just exclude all joy from your life. And I'm gonna buy you special glasses that are monochrome. What?

[Quinn]

You know, I said I had a colonoscopy, an endoscopy, CAT scan, and. Yeah, so it turns out stomach ulcers, first thing. Geez.

[Dave Arnold]

But that's real. That's now verified?

[Quinn]

Yep. Oh, yeah, I've got the pictures. Oh, man.

[Dave Arnold]

Are they on your fridge?

[Quinn]

No, no.

[Dave Arnold]

How do they fix that?

[Quinn]

Well, we're waiting on some other results to make sure it's not a bacterial thing, but can you got me on some?

[Dave Arnold]

Can you get an ulcer from the bacteria?

[Quinn]

Yeah, apparently H. Pylori, they call it.

[Joe Hazen]

Welcome. I have the same thing.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, my God. And right now. Or you had it and you got rid of it?

[Joe Hazen]

I had it. Got rid of it, the same thing. Did the endoscopy, colonoscopy. And I want a very intense medication. And I eradicated it. We had to check the whole family.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, but that's good news, though, right? That's really good news.

[Joe Hazen]

My butt. My gut health changed for sure.

[Dave Arnold]

For better.

[Joe Hazen]

Way better.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So not to get too into the weeds on it, by the way, I'm just going to introduce now Dustin Everett's here, Chef Fish Cheeks. You know, we work together a long time ago. Anyway, well, so you're welcome. You can chime in at any time.

[Dustin Everett]

Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. I actually had an ulcer as well.

[Quinn]

Oh, really?

[Dustin Everett]

I had a couple of them.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, nice.

[Dustin Everett]

So I know what you're going through.

[Dave Arnold]

It's the ulcer family. So a couple more questions. And I know Nastasia wants me to ask this. So when they're doing the colonoscopy, endoscopy, do they do that at the same time and meet in the middle? Because that would be sick.

[Quinn]

I wouldn't know. I was out cold.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, yeah. Anytime someone does something horrible to me, I don't have the money to be put out. Actually, that's not your colonoscopy.

[Dustin Everett]

They put you out cold.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

You know, but like, I just had my first, so. Yes, I know.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

I just hit that age where it's like, okay, now I gotta do it.

[Dave Arnold]

By the way, for any of you who can hear me, who are not yet of that age, remember, eventually, either you're gonna go first or you're gonna get to that age, because those are the two choices. So assuming you make it to that age, pay the extra money for the less volume prep.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So basically, they tell you that it's for you, right? It's for them. So they don't have to look through a bunch of stuff when they're going through you. So when you get a colonoscopy, which is the one where they go in from you from the backside, you have to get cleaned out. Like, cleaned out. Like, you're like. You're like a swimming pool on the inside. You're totally clear. And so you have to take what amounts to like. Imagine if you put like 5 gallons of Pedialyte on a. On a stove and reduced it, like, down to, like a tiny cup. Right? But the old school, you'd have to drink like, a gallon of that. And then, you know, you basically take a book into the bathroom and you sit there and. And you take care of everything.

[Quinn]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

Let it all out.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

But now they make a two cup solution. So boom. You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Yep. Comes right out real quick.

[Quinn]

I had pills.

[Dave Arnold]

You had pills.

[Quinn]

I had pills.

[Dave Arnold]

This is an LA thing. We don't have that.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I don't have that. I had the cup.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. Wait, wait, so you just swallow a super salty pill?

[Quinn]

No, it was like. I think it's like 20 pills within 40 minutes or something. Take a pill every five. I forget what it was. It's like an extreme concentrated dose of many pills. And you know that that previous day and then the morning of. So it's just as brutal, believe me.

[Dustin Everett]

Yes.

[Dave Arnold]

So much fun. You know, you guys like, you guys haven't had it yet. You don't know what you're missing.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Quinn]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

And then how hangry surly did you get during the fasting period? Because that's my other part of my favorite.

[Quinn]

Oh, miserable man. Oh, ye. Yeah, Brutal. Yellow and jello and broth. That's about it.

[Dave Arnold]

Jello. And not only that, not only that, they're like no red jello.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You're like, what? I know what.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You can only choose colors that are the same colors they use to mimic urine in diaper commercials. Like, that's it.

[Dustin Everett]

Very good way to put it.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's a good stand in for healthy pee, it's good.

[Quinn]

You know what I mean?

[Dave Arnold]

Otherwise, you know. Yeah, it's a nightmare. Hey, you know, I don't think there's anything you can do to make your actual urine blue. Poop green I can do.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I've had some colors, but no blue.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, no blue. Nastasia and I were planning on and we decided it was unethical to surreptitiously make a bunch of our friends poop green with FNDC blue dye.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Dave Arnold]

But we decided against it.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Right.

[Quinn]

Stas,

[Dave Arnold]

she's still there. She already hung up. All right, that was it. Five minutes, in and out. All right, well, she's on the move. All right, so when are they going to figure out whether it's bacterial? How long? How long until you have to figure out what your course of action is? Hopefully not long. I love it when they tell you what's kind of wrong, but then they're like, we'll figure it out someday.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

Wednesday is my big day. But my big day. You know, it's. It is what? I'm happy to get clarity. I'm eating again. It's. It's fine.

[Dave Arnold]

So, like, what does that mean, though? Like, no acid, no blah, blah, blah.

[Quinn]

I mean, they tell you no, look, I asked, I said, will anything I eat or drink make my condition worse? They're like, no, you're just. You'll feel bad. And I was like, all right, fine, then I'll eat whatever I want.

[Dustin Everett]

I'll suffer.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As long as it's not making you all crispy.

[Dustin Everett]

Been suffering for 20 years.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Quinn]

Right. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Suffering's life.

[Quinn]

Sure is. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Sweet.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Without suffering, how would you know? You're here. All right, so there's four of us left. So what are we, a five? Joe. Joe doesn't usually chime in on what he's done during the past. Sometimes. Sometimes he likes to keep his cooking to himself. Most of the time.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, I do a lot of eating.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, I was in Portugal.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh yeah?

[Dave Arnold]

Last week?

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, last week I was in Portugal for four days with the family. Was in London seeing mom and dad. That was okay. Well, mother, my mother in law fell and broke her hip. It was really tough. We were supposed to go have dinner or lunch at the River Cafe. We were invited by Ruthie Rogers. Unfortunately we got the reservation and then she fell and broke her hip and then we decided not to go without her.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, well, I had a question, but here's my question about London. Cause I haven't been to London with kids in years because my kids are they grown now. It used to be that like. As opposed to Paris where you can take your kids anywhere. Right. In London. They didn't love for you to have your kid with you at the restaurants, you know what I mean? Or at the pubs. And here I think it's 50. 50. I think it depends on the restaurant.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. How, how did it feel going with kids now?

[Joe Hazen]

Oh no. And there's no problem at all. They were, I mean, well one, the kids were very well behaved. I have a three month old, so she just was kind of either sleeping or feeding from a bottle. The four year old, he's entertaining himself. He's all over the shop. So he's running. He thinks he's a bartender. He's one going behind the bar. But no one really minds. No one really, no one said anything. The English are just too polite.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know, so that's their fault.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, exactly. So we're just.

[Dustin Everett]

I 100% would have said something here

[Dave Arnold]

behind my bar, you know, kids, adults, this is a sacred space. You don't get behind the bar. That's the one thing. You know, for those of you that don't know, anytime do never reach a. There's a magic line. Even if it's not drawn sometimes it's literally, you can see it. It's where the drain rail is. But like there's a magic line on the bar. Once the bartender pushes your drink over that line, that is yours. And the bartender is allowed to reach over that Line.

[Quinn]

Oh.

[Dustin Everett]

Do not cross that line. You're not allowed to cross that line.

[Dave Arnold]

Do not.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

The crazy thing is, like, you know, one or two drinks and people will just reach across the rail into your, like, your garnish.

[Quinn]

Whoa.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, it's wild.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

The olives. The olives are always the big one. I always get the people. Like, they'll grab a pick and then hit the olives. You're like, hey.

[Dave Arnold]

Or what if they used a pick they already had in the freaking guy? What are you. What are you.

[Quinn]

You know what I mean?

[Dave Arnold]

What are you.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

Come on.

[Dave Arnold]

I'm sure you got that black back at Black Crest.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Definitely got that back at Black Crisp. That's where. That's the PTSD of it.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people used to get pretty turnt there.

[Dustin Everett]

Yep, yep. I mean, probably, you know, probably still. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

All right. Okay, so Wednesday, you figure out what's going on. All right. And. Oh, we're back. I skipped over London. So what do you have in Portugal that was good to eat?

[Joe Hazen]

We had Delicious. Well, we had the traditional rice and fish stew. I can't remember the name of it. It's absolutely phenomenal. Every living creature in the. From the sea in this, like, lost, low cooked rice starts with a P. I can't remember exactly.

[Dustin Everett]

Not yet. Were you in Lisbon? Are you South?

[Joe Hazen]

No, we were south in Faro.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, wow. Even farther. Saluca.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a beautiful town.

[Quinn]

Old school.

[Joe Hazen]

I mean, sardine sandwiches were off. We had. That's basically what we ate a lot in the daytime.

[Dave Arnold]

And how do they do a sardine sandwich? I've never been to Portugal, by the way.

[Dustin Everett]

You gotta go sardine.

[Joe Hazen]

It's on the. Well, you know, I thought I was gonna find that. Those, you know, those delicious Portuguese buns and couldn't find any of them. They had their own homemade rustic bread. It's just olive oil. Salt. Excuse me. No salt. Usually some type of green either. Like, they really do like coriander a lot. I was very surprised.

[Dave Arnold]

Good product.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, yeah, it's great product. And then they basically just put the. In between and they kind of use a knife to split it and kind of smear it.

[Dave Arnold]

So it's. But it's a fresh panned sardine or

[Joe Hazen]

it's fresh pan dry. It's usually dried dry.

[Dave Arnold]

So a dried sardine.

[Joe Hazen]

A dried sardine that's very.

[Dave Arnold]

Still, very wet, so not dried. Like, you can buy canned Italian salted sardines. Not those.

[Joe Hazen]

Not those.

[Dave Arnold]

All right. But not fully fresh. Like semi.

[Joe Hazen]

But not fully fresh.

[Dave Arnold]

Semi sick.

[Quinn]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Dave Arnold]

They're panned or they're not panned.

[Joe Hazen]

Panned.

[Dave Arnold]

And they're boned or they're not boned.

[Joe Hazen]

Boned.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Hazen]

Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Not boned.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

That takes a lot.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not boned. I always forget when someone says boned is like the bones are out.

[Dave Arnold]

That's a good point. I never thought about that. We should say deboned.

[Joe Hazen]

I guess that's what I would think.

[Dave Arnold]

But you know the parlance on. I guess boneless is what, boneless?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Boneless.

[Dustin Everett]

Boneless.

[Quinn]

Skinless.

[Dustin Everett]

Boneless. Boneless. Chicken bone. Less.

[Dave Arnold]

And you're like. I thought that just meant there are fewer. I left some in you.

[Dustin Everett]

Cover yourself, right. There's a gray area. If there's one bone, hey, it's still boneless.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, exactly. Fewer. Although I had someone in. I forget who it was. Chef. And maybe a writer. I think it was a chef. And I was like, you know, they said, I thought this was interesting. That, like, if you're going to leave all the bones in, fine. But if you're gonna say it's boneless, if you miss even one, I hate you.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean? They couldn't tolerate it. You know who's like that? My wife. I make one mistake with the. Okay. I think I said this on the air, but you know when you're boning out chicken thighs.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

And there's always. As you bone it, if you're knife boning it, there's that little piece of cartilage that stays on the one side. And then usually you can either knife it out or you can take shears, pop up. But if I miss one of those, my wife's like, you suck.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

I deal with it a lot because a lot of our stuff is deboned. Right. Like, my bronzino is boneless head to tail. And, like, one person gets one little pin bone that I missed out of. I saw 120 to 160 of these a day. One. And then it's the first thing on a review. It's like there was a bone in it. I'm like, my gosh, come on.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Come on. Look, you're gonna make a mistake with these things. You can't always feel them. People. I gotta count every. What am I gonna. I know exactly. I don't know exactly how many pin bones there are. I should maybe.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

I don't exactly.

[Dustin Everett]

I don't. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

I don't know the anatomy of every fish and every pin bone.

[Dave Arnold]

I don't know. So, you know, you run your finger over it, you don't feel it. You look twice. You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

I mean, half of it might have broken off in the tweezer, right? You got half of it, but there's something underneath.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. And you know what? You're not going to choke on that bone. Yeah, you're not going to choke on that bone.

[Dustin Everett]

You're not.

[Dave Arnold]

That's the thing about fish bones, especially a chicken bone. Whatever. But like, people assume you're trying to murder them.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, 100%. And it's just like. So I don't understand because, like, you know, in Thailand, everything's bone in. Yeah, yeah. And you, I mean, you're sucking on the bones. I mean, that adds flavor. I mean, bones are flavor, too. Like, I love to cook with bones. I love to cook with shells as well, like shrimp shells, because that's flavor. Like, I eat shell on shrimp.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. But I leave the shell on when I eat it.

[Dustin Everett]

That's what. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I leave, I eat. And people think it's like I just had to change a dish recently because of that. Like, it's one of my better dishes. But people, they didn't want to peel the shrimp. But I was like, well, you're not supposed to peel the shrimp. They're wok fried. Like, eat it. It's crunchy, it's texture.

[Dave Arnold]

If it's good, I usually leave on the plate the eyes and the antenna with the little beak and the little end of the tail.

[Dustin Everett]

Exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

They're like, suck the head and then eat the shell. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, here's the thing. It's like my family likes boneless items. Also, bones get in the way of speed. Maybe Americans just don't like to bother. And some of it is not wanting to deal with the bones or grab bones or pick bones up because we're not a hand eating cult. Strangely, even though we have pizza, we have bagels, we have hot dogs, we have hands.

[Dustin Everett]

We eat a lot of things with our hands.

[Dave Arnold]

A lot of our iconic foods actually are eaten with our hands when we're eating food. Food. Not. You know, what am I talking about? When we're eating food that's on a plate. You know, we don't like to eat with our hands. We're just not. Oh, my God. My old head bartender who was also at Existing Conditions but also at CO for a long time. Theo Uya. He's Kenyan. I'm trying to get him to get me to do a pop up sometime in Nairobi. But he was saying that they have. I forget the name of it, but the starch that they use to eat in Kenya, you literally mold it like play doh and then use it to like make a spoon with it.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. Then you grab with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had. It was actually funny. The only time I've had Kenyan food was in Italy. But it was very much. It's like Ethiopians do the same thing. Like they do. They use the starch. Whatever it is not coming to me. But like whatever they make, they do that to use as a spoon so you don't get your hand like dirty. But that's how you eat.

[Dave Arnold]

Right, right, right. But I'm used to the Ethiopian. Like the injera. I'm used to injera, but like, I just never thought of like basically making a. Out of a Play Doh consistency corn product whose name escapes me.

[Dustin Everett]

It's almost like a masa. Like they make it with like masa, right? Like I'd like some kind of corn but not mixed moss, but not.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. But like, I was like, man, I was like. And so like when people are trying it for the first time, do they mechanically suck at doing it?

[Dustin Everett]

He's like, oh, yeah, oh yeah. It's gotta be hard. I mean, honestly, in Thailand they do the same. It's sticky rice, right. Like, I cook a lot of southern Thai food, but you get North Chiang Mai, Shanghai, Isan very like you mold the sticky rice and you use it as a vessel as well.

[Dave Arnold]

Do they wet your fingers first? Is there some sort of like wetness on the.

[Dustin Everett]

You don't have to. You can just like the sticky rice is when it. Cause like they cook it for every. Like they cook it every meal and then whatever's left over, we make something else with it. Right. Like it's always fresh. Every meal you're going to have a fresh rice. Like you make it in the morning and they leave it out all day and it's. There's a reason it's sticky rice, not jasmine, because sticky rice will have that consistency where you can mold it and you basically fold it in your hands like this and then do the same. Just like pick it up.

[Dave Arnold]

But you don't have to wet your

[Dustin Everett]

fingers first to wet your fingers. You can get in there. Doesn't stick to Your doesn't, like, does it? No. Doesn't get too sticky the way they do it. Yeah, it's pretty. It's cool. It's not like you have to wet it or, like, worry about it. Like, we literally just go in.

[Dave Arnold]

What's the difference when I'm making sticky rice of doing the actual real way of doing it where you have to freaking, like, soak it, drain it. I put it over a freaking conical McGilla or whatever. I steam the hell out of it in the basket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's. What's the difference between doing it that way and just the chump way that I do it, like, in a rice cooker or, like, on a stove?

[Dustin Everett]

I mean, I think, honestly, like, so even on a stove or like, in a perforated pan with, like, cheesecloth. Right. Or even in a combi ovens nowadays that. Because we're just the master. Yeah. The mass people. I still. At our. Even at our restaurant, we still use the baskets and the conical. Because I think it comes out. You can't overcook it. Like, I think it's perfect. The thing is, the key is making sure you soak it right. Having it soaked and then in the vessel. It's 30 minutes at the first, and then you flip it and go 15 minutes. And then you can shut it off. You can eat it all day. I love it that way. I think it's the simplest way. I don't like even the combi oven. Like, it gets. The alder gets. It gets sticky or even on the oven, like, if it's too much water, like, if you don't, like, poke enough holes in it, if you don't have it properly the way that you need it done in a hotel pan, like, the outside's gonna get cooked and the inside won't be as cooked.

[Dave Arnold]

So you're saying you can keep it warm with the traditional technique all day without it over watering?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, without over watering. Just, like, keeping it standard and, like, just keeping it like that all day. Like, you can't overcook. It's almost crazy. Like, it's more of a foolproof than our combi ovens that we built to be foolproof.

[Quinn]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

To take the cooking out of the cooking. Like, it's almost like I've done it, and you can sit there and you can forget about it. You're still fine.

[Dave Arnold]

This is the problem with science. The problem with science is that unless there's an industrial monetary reason to do so, no one will check and see whether or not something has a Anytime something works better, there's a reason. And so we all have our theories, what they are. Most of the time, they're wrong. Me, you, anybody. And there's not a lot of money to investigate why certain traditional things work the way that they do.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

It's weird, right?

[Dustin Everett]

I think it's crazy. Like, I had my combi ovens broke in Brooklyn. Just. This is exactly what we're talking about. I thought my chef's heads were gonna explode. And I'm talking, like, steaming corn. And like, they called me and they're like, we don't know what to do. We can't prep.

[Dave Arnold]

They didn't have a backup thing.

[Dustin Everett]

I was like, in their hand. Have you ever heard of a pot and water? Like, how do you think they used to cook corn? Like, boil some water and cook corn? I'm like, guys, it's not the end of the world. Yeah, but it. We're so dependent now on that. The combi ovens, the, you know, the C VAPs, the pressure cookers, like, everything. And it's like nowadays, like, even for me, the circulators and stuff. And it's taken a lot of cooking out of a lot of chefs and a lot of cooks, like, if one thing happens, they can't. And in my head, it's like, what did you think happened 100 years ago?

[Dave Arnold]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

When they were actually doing.

[Dave Arnold]

But here's the thing, right? So you know, you started in the early 2000s, right?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, cooking. I started in the early 2000s.

[Dave Arnold]

Right. So people now who. People now are in their 20s who were born in the early 2000s.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So if you think about that. And so I remember, I don't know, even three or four years ago, and the first post pandemic lecture I think that I did at Harvard. Cause I go there every year to do that thing. I was like, this is interesting. You were the first class that was born after low temperature cooking became a kind of normal thing in high end restaurants. It's like, so your intuition is not shaped by the same kind of weird things that my intuition growing up was about how food was. But the flip side of it is what you're bringing up now, which is that they also don't have the mental backups to the old ways of doing things that we were growing up doing. It's like, even me, I'm old, right? 55. I still, like, sometimes if I know a piece of equipment is going to be broken or gone, I'm Like, I think about. I'm like, you know, because my work. Anytime your workflow changes.

[Dustin Everett]

Yep.

[Dave Arnold]

You're like, well, you know, it's not so much of a big deal at home, but professionally, if you're working, if your system is going to break, you know, like. Like when they run out of ln at the bar, they're. They're losing their minds. I'm like, well, look, this is 86, and this is 86. Do this, do this, do that. You know what I mean? But it's like, totally.

[Dustin Everett]

And that's what I mean. I take pride in that because I don't think a lot of people have that as much anymore because of what you said, because now everything is such. Like, it's the scientific. At the low, low temperature cooking. It's taking the mistakes out, which I understand. Don't get me wrong. Like, I still use a sous vide. I still use some of those things, but I always go back to a lot of my cooking is I always keep it pretty old school. Like, we're gonna do it because that. I like the human error. And I want somebody to, like, if they. If they are really good at it, it shows in the dish. Like, if I just ask somebody to put something in a bag or then cryovac it and then cook it in a circulator, and all they're doing is like, hey, just put grill marks on it. You know, I enjoy that.

[Dave Arnold]

I have my issue with grill marks.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

I don't. I don't like things that are symbol of.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Showing you, like, hey, it was on the grill for a minute.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like a. You know how when you go to a strip mall and there's like a fake roof, gabled roof on the front of the. Of like the single rise, like, you know, flat top building, and they have that fake, like, roof on it on the front. I hate that.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

I'm like, be what you are.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean? To me, like, unless the grill. Unless you put it on a grill long enough to flavor the outside, it's the same thing as one of those roofs on a strip mall. You know what I mean? It's like, anyway.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Because a roof, there should be an attic behind it where I can store crap.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Anyway.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, 100%.

[Dave Arnold]

Joe, when you were in Portugal, did you have any of their. And I think this is not Southern, so maybe not. I'm a huge fan of Portuguese thistle. Rented Cheeses.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Hazen]

I did not. Yeah, they ate a lot of clams. Really delicious clams. They. The people, they slave over the clams there, for sure.

[Dave Arnold]

What variety of clam in particular?

[Joe Hazen]

Very small, probably maybe double the size of your two thumbnails, depending on.

[Dustin Everett]

Probably cockles. Right? They look like cockles.

[Joe Hazen]

I said cockles to them, and they didn't know what I was speaking of.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, but I mean, do they speak English?

[Joe Hazen]

They spoke English.

[Dave Arnold]

I mean, cockles, though. A very specific word.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like you would know. Cockle.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

But the.

[Quinn]

All right.

[Joe Hazen]

The octopus is phenomenal. And there's so many different types of. So many.

[Dave Arnold]

They're huge. Yeah. I mean, huge meaning large.

[Joe Hazen]

Very large in size. And they're delicious.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

I wonder what they do. I wonder what this classic prep in Portugal is. I wonder whether they're a washing machine people or not.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. With the rocks. Yeah, yeah.

[Quinn]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

You throw it. You tumble them in there.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

Or if they. I think they don't. They line dry them. I thought they. I think they beat them on rocks, and I think they hang them on the lines. From what I. I spent a lot of time in Portugal in 2019.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. So is that what you saw?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I saw, like, there's like a. So, like, you beat. You come out of the water and like, they literally just. On rocks, take the heads and they're just beating them, like, breaking them down. Basically the washing machine method.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

But before the washing. Before the washing, and then they hang them and they kind of sun dry them.

[Dave Arnold]

So in Portugal, you think there's someone being like, what do you think they did before washing machines?

[Dustin Everett]

100. They need to. But also they should buy some washing machines.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

It'll be a lot easier.

[Dave Arnold]

Exactly, exactly.

[Dustin Everett]

Exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, well, while we're on the topic of cephalopods, I noticed. I looked at. So Dustin's at fish cheeks. Both or. Which one are you at?

[Dustin Everett]

I oversee all of it. I'm the chef. I just became a partner a couple years ago, so I'm a chef partner. So I got chefs at both of my locations, but I'm usually in NoHo. I've been in both today, put it that way. Like, I'm in Brooklyn, I'm in NoHo.

[Dave Arnold]

So you have right now. I saw on the Internet a squid and squid ink situation. Yeah, yeah. And in that one, you are. You're a crosshatch. You're a crosshatch, man. On the exterior of your squid. What is your theory?

[Quinn]

On.

[Dave Arnold]

First of all, let me ask you this. What is your theory on. I like frozen squid.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Because I think it's more tender when it thaws out. This could be me. I've never side by side because I don't have a really awesome fresh squid.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. Purvaer.

[Dave Arnold]

You wanna hear something crazy? This is off topic. You know Nyland in Sydney? The fish guy?

[Quinn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

I don't know him personally. But you know him.

[Dustin Everett]

I don't know him, but I know.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So Wiley Dufresne, my brother in.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Just gets back from Sydney. He was doing an event at that restaurant right. In Sydney, and he said to me, he's gonna blow your mind. He's like, they don't believe in. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, this is a famous restaurant. I think he was the first person really to push this, like, age for a long period of time. Not like traditional Japanese. Like, oh, your tuna is a week old. Not traditional. Like, past that. And he believes that that water is the enemy of fish. That once the fish comes out of the water, he gets all of his fish and other products whole into the restaurant. Not gutted whole. And no water touches him. He believes. I don't know whether salt water would hurt in his theory, but, like, theory is fresh water. So you ready for this? They do all of their cleaning with paper towels.

[Dustin Everett]

That's wild.

[Dave Arnold]

So including squid. So, like, they get. They get squid, which for any of you that have ever cleaned. Squid. And if I told you you're gonna clean this squid with no water.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You would punch me.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. You know, punch me or walk out.

[Quinn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

But, you know, and we're talking professionally. This isn't in, like, your house where, like, you're like, oh, this person's just a lunatic. I'm gonna have to do these paper towel things, but I'm never coming to this house again. Imagine going to your crew and being

[Dustin Everett]

like, you're gonna do this 100%. I mean, even all my fish, I mean, I let them rinse it. I don't like it to touch. Like, I don't want it soaking. But, like, you know, after they pin, bone it, like, kind of just rinse it off, Right?

[Dave Arnold]

The thing I said a million times, I was like, what if. What about the backbone? Because, like, to me, like, if you don't clean the backbone of the fish, what the hell, you know what I mean? Get that gross stuff out. I was like, what if they pop the bile duct and, like, you know, like, no. Cause they gut them all whole and they're just very careful when they gut them out. But yeah, water is the enemy. Isn't that a crazy thing?

[Dustin Everett]

That's crazy. I didn't realize that. But I mean, it makes sense to his brand because of what he's done with the dry aging and stuff. And, you know, there's restaurants that can afford that amount of time, and then there's restaurants that have to, like, hey, I'm open from 12 to 12 all day and busy all day, so I gotta get that done.

[Dave Arnold]

Right. His argument is that when you put fresh water onto a fish, it's osmotically improper. And so the fish absorbs water. And therefore. And what I think he might be right also is that you're enhancing. So if you store your fish on ice, for instance, there's like a. There's like a wet zone there where bacteria can thrive as opposed to if the fish dries out. Tacky.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

We all know what quote unquote dried fish looks like. If you've ever done fish storage high in a box with. Not that. With minimal or some. But minimal circulation. You know what I'm talking about? Fish gets a particular look where the mucus dries. But it's not bad. It's just. Anyway.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I mean, it kind of makes sense. It's osmosis, right. Like, you got fresh water if it's sitting in there. Right. Like, maybe some of that salt comes out of the flesh. Especially a saltwater fish.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. And water goes in.

[Dustin Everett]

Water goes in.

[Dave Arnold]

What if you use saltwater? Right, yeah, exactly.

[Dustin Everett]

Like, that's why you do a brine. Some like, you know, you do your 5% brine.

[Dave Arnold]

Just go. Go down to the ocean and pick up water. I mean, like, the restaurant's like five minutes from Bondi Beach.

[Quinn]

You know what I mean?

[Dave Arnold]

Like, anyway, so first of all, what are your thoughts on frozen versus fresh squid?

[Dustin Everett]

So it's interesting to guess that I actually use both. It depends on my cooking, depends on what I'm doing. So for that dish that you described, I use only fresh because I also harvest squid ink from the squid. So I only have a certain number of those dishes a day. And don't get me wrong, I buy cuttlefish ink because I have to, just to make up for the sauce and make sure I have. But I like the fresh in that because it's a little more buttery. Now, my fried calamari, I'm with you. Frozen.

[Dave Arnold]

Frozen.

[Dustin Everett]

It's tender. It's it's once I hit, like, because, like, I do a very light batter, and once I get that for that frozen calamari and then right into that hot fryer, kind of like tenderizes it and it's just the best.

[Dave Arnold]

That's a good point.

[Dustin Everett]

Different uses, different usage. Because I don't cook too high in the wok. It's a wok stir fry. But I'm not like. It's not like a jet flame. I'm not like, cranking it. Cranking it.

[Dave Arnold]

Interesting.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

All right, Quinn, what do you got for the last couple of weeks? Since we have been gone for a little. We were gone for a little while. Did we just come off break?

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. All right, so what. What do you got?

[Quinn]

Let's see. A few baking duds. I think the best thing I made in the last few weeks, though, is I did like sort of a farmer vegetable based pesto. Like, you might do a kale pesto.

[Dave Arnold]

I might not do a kale pesto, though. You would never catch me doing a kale pesto.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't do it.

[Dave Arnold]

I understand that that might be what you're doing.

[Quinn]

Yeah. This was Swiss chard, scallion greens, blanched, and then pistachio cheese and then lots of basil for garnish. Stir fried with garlic scapes, because we had those instead of garlic. And then actually instead of a regular pasta, we did the Korean style sweet potato starch noodles.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. How were they? Well, first of all, let me ask you a separate question. Separate question. At what point does your quote unquote non basil related? In other words, nothing in the mint family? No square stalked aromatic items? Right. At what point does that just become like a palak or a soag sauce?

[Quinn]

Well, I mean, pesto means paste. Genovese pesto is the basil.

[Dave Arnold]

Pesto means paste.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

And prosciutto means ham. I mean, come on, dude, play that with me. All right, go ahead.

[Quinn]

There's many different

[Dave Arnold]

in Thailand. Dustin, how do you do a green pesto versus a red pesto? Come on, dude. Pesto has meaning here. In the United States, we call them curries.

[Dustin Everett]

Taste.

[Dave Arnold]

All right, all right, point taken.

[Quinn]

I'm not in the United States, man.

[Dave Arnold]

We know, we know. Not yet. Not yet. I'm kidding. All right, so you honestly, in your heart, when you think pesto, you're not like something that is either basil or is replacing basil a mixture of Parmesan, Parmigiano and Romano pecorino, or one or the other of those, a pine nut or pine nut Replacement salt and oil and pepper, maybe garlic. I also add to mine lemon rind.

[Dustin Everett]

I was gonna say lemon. Yeah. A little acid.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, but I had some acid, but I had a lot of rind.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

To brighten it.

[Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

But you're telling me honestly that your mind just goes paste.

[Quinn]

Well, isn't that what I'm showing you?

[Dustin Everett]

That was a pause right there. That was a pause.

[Dave Arnold]

What do you, what do you got? What are your feelings?

[Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, I'm, I, I'm calling the dish a green pesto. All right? It's not basil pesto. It's not Genovese pesto. All right.

[Dave Arnold]

How was,

[Quinn]

was very good. And then the very, you know those Korean style noodles they use for like a japchae, they're very much like, literally just texture, like no flavor. So it works very well with the pesto.

[Dave Arnold]

I think most noodles are low in flavor if you think about it. But like, how do they absorb my memory? They're not hyper absorbent. Right. It's just what sticks to them. They don't soak. Right.

[Quinn]

Yeah. So again, they sort of, they get, if the sauce is the right viscosity, it clings to it very well. And then, you know, even as they get cooled, they're still a pleasant texture.

[Dave Arnold]

You know, I haven't cooked with Swiss chard in a long time.

[Dustin Everett]

I actually haven't either. It's been a very long time.

[Dave Arnold]

It's not a bad product. It's just there was a time in the 90s when everyone was like, you know what you need to cook with Swiss charisse chard.

[Dustin Everett]

And then it became rainbow Swiss chard. Now there's colors.

[Quinn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

You're like, it's the same thing that happened with cauliflower. It's like, oh, there's purple cauliflower now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

It's like, nope, too much.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know, at home, I started cooking cauliflower again only recently because, you know, for those of you that have kids, right. A lot of kids go through this no green vegetable phase. Maybe they come out of it, maybe they don't. So I was like, you know what? Fine, to hell with it. I'm going to do old school. And I did the old school. Just steamed broccoli, cheese sauce, a lot of cheese sauce. I'm like, I didn't add any flavors. This is basically Mac and cheese with cauliflower underneath. It's going to be fine. Both kids burst into tears, wouldn't eat it. Screaming matches, yelling. And then I was like, hell, this Even though cauliflower is straight delicious, I only use it as dish components. Never as prime side or anything. Just because triggered from that one event. Now my kids laugh about it. I don't.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I remember that. Just because you forgot about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Exactly, exactly.

[Dustin Everett]

Well, now you deserve. When you go to their house now you deserve.

[Dave Arnold]

You.

[Dustin Everett]

You should throw a tantrum if they give you cold block.

[Dave Arnold]

God damn it. Yeah, like. All right, Jack, have you been eating anything for your stomach food? Do you have a beef tea equivalent for your ulcers?

[Quinn]

No, I'm just doing. Like I said, I'm just dealing with discomfort and eating whatever I want. I was at Firstborn our friends at Firstborn the other night and really, truly fantastic meal. I don't know if you. Did you eat there, Dave? I forget.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, I ate there when I went for the last McGillic. You know what they have that they're trying to get rid of? They have a Koch Industries. Not the Koch brothers.

[Quinn]

Okay.

[Dave Arnold]

They have a Koch Industries vacuum machine, which is one of the. You know, you don't see it as commonly anymore because multivac and mini Pak and you know, a couple of other people kind of own the US vacuum machine market in restaurants.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

And they have a Coke. It's fine machine. It's, you know, it's not digital. And the circuit board fried. Right. And they don't have the. They don't want to. Or they don't have the money to fix it. They don't want to fix it, so they want to find a home for it. But I think the pump is still good. And I was like, listen, there's got to be a maker somewhere who. There's gotta be a maker somewhere who can use this because the bush pump in that thing alone is worth like $800 a grand or something like that. And if the tubing, if all the tubing and stuff still works. Anyone who can do basic circuit work with, with solenoids, you know, and you know, and relays.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Can make that thing do. I mean, you know, I wouldn't use it in your restaurant, but like, you know, like. But yeah, I would use it.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean? Someone constructed a vacuum safe container. They put a very expensive oil based vacuum pump on it and a release solenoid. It's all there.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Just the electronics are fried and for like $30 you could buy the electronics to make that thing work. So anyway, go over there, you know, go on their Instagram, send them a dm, tell them I sent you.

[Dustin Everett]

I'LL take it.

[Dave Arnold]

I'll take it. It's the kind of thing that I would take for. You should only take it if you have a project you want to do right now.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it sounds like a lot because we're opening Miami, so I'm like, back and forth between Miami. We're getting Miami open in December. I don't think I have the project time, unfortunately, but I do get into those projects when I do have the

[Dave Arnold]

time now in Miami. Miami culture is still like Miami culture to my. True or false. There's still like a kind of a restaurant club culture that feels like almost like 20 years ago here in terms of, like, people still going out doing coke in the bathroom till infinity at

[Dustin Everett]

night and 100%, 120%. Yes. I'm a New York guy to the T. I do have to move down there for six months to get it open, but 100, like, when we went down to look at locations, that was one of the reasons we're not doing south beach, because we went there and it was like, what is this, the 80s still?

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

What is happening? It was such a club vibe, but it was a nice restaurant. Our bill was crazy expensive, but it was a club vibe. And it's just like, everybody just wants to be seen.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

Girls are dancing on the bar, and you're sitting there having a $400 per head meal. What is happening? It is. It's definitely a little different. We're in Wynwood. We decided to go to Wynwood. A little bit more edgy right there with Art Basel. I'm sure that'll get crazy. I haven't been down there for that, but it's a little bit more of our vibe. I consider, like, the East Village or Brooklyn kind of of Miami. So hopefully there's not too much of that.

[Dave Arnold]

Did someone earlier on this program say broke in Brooklyn, which should be either like a book or a movie? I think. Dustin, I think you said broke in Brooklyn.

[Dustin Everett]

Broke in Brooklyn.

[Dave Arnold]

Broke in Brooklyn. But Brooklyn's so expensive now.

[Dustin Everett]

It is. It's crazy. Williamsburg is basically. I mean, I moved to Brooklyn, and I'm basically paying what I was. I was living in an East Village for years when we worked together. I mean, we're talking when I started in 2009, 10 and at Momo, I was in the East Village and living happy. And now I'm, like, basically paying, like, SoHo money in downtown Fort Greene, Brooklyn.

[Dave Arnold]

It's crazy.

[Dustin Everett]

It's crazy.

[Dave Arnold]

It's crazy.

[Dustin Everett]

It's nuts.

[Quinn]

Okay, we are not far away. We are not far away from the next affordable neighborhood. Just being Long island all the way.

[Dustin Everett]

Or we're gonna start having to make the Staten island move.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, geez. You know, Staten island, like, has its charms. I have not been to Staten island to do the Sri Lankan thing. I need to go. I need to go. Where are you from originally, Dustin?

[Dustin Everett]

So I grew up in California, the Bay Area.

[Dave Arnold]

All right, so people who are from around here. Someone I know went to Norwalk for the aquarium and a bunch of other stuff. They stayed over one night in Norwalk, and I was like, oh, I haven't been to Norwalk in a long time. So Norwalk, for those of you that don't know, is just up the highway from us in Connecticut. It's like, it should be a 30 minute drive, but it's an hour. But it should be 30 minute drive, 100%. And you know, on a good day, could be worse.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

I could be a two hour drive.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's right on the water on the Long Island Sound. And I was like, oh, yeah. So what's like. He's like, well, they say it's like the Williamsburg of Connecticut. I was like, well, what's the Manhattan of Connecticut? Nothing.

[Dustin Everett]

Nothing.

[Dave Arnold]

Manhattan's the Manhattan or Connecticut. And I was like, all right, geez. You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

It totally makes sense, though.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, but we already have our own Williamsburg. It is Williamsburg. Anyways, Quinn, you got anything else in the cook zone? You've been cooking a long time there.

[Quinn]

What?

[Dave Arnold]

Duds. Listen, when I'm asking you for a dud, there's a difference between just this sucked and this sucked. But I learned something important.

[Quinn]

Well, I've been doing some experimental bread things. I tried to turn cultured cream into butter, use the buttermilk entirely as the liquid for the bread, and then reintegrate the butter into the bread. But that didn't work.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, what would the advantage of that? What didn't work about it? And what would be the advantage? Was the PH just too low? Did the acid, Was it too acidic and it broke the gluten structure?

[Quinn]

Yeah, I mean, that would be my guess. Yeah. But yeah, I didn't form gluten well enough. Basically, I was trying to maximize the, like, flavor of the cultured dairy in a sort of demi brioche style format. So I'm like, well, were you using AP flour, the cultured butter, nose bread flour, and again, some of my fresh milled flour.

[Dave Arnold]

See, that's the thing. Now You've now you've multiple variables at one time. Now you don't know. Now, if you really want to know, you have to test. Because if you're challenging the gluten and you're adding bran at the same time, you've double challenged your gluten. So you don't know where the line is. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you were going to try it again, you should try it with bog standard ap and then, you know, no, it's too acidic. You have a PH meter. Right. You could test it, couldn't you?

[Quinn]

My mom has a PH meter. I'll have to borrow hers. I would do that.

[Dave Arnold]

Because then you can rectify that.

[Quinn]

You treat as a buffer. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, I mean, I would just use, you know, something that's not a buffer. I would just use a base. Because you're trying to get rid of the.

[Quinn]

Of the.

[Dave Arnold]

You're not trying to buffer against. You're trying to literally neutralize.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

And so I would just use a base and that. And you know, I mean, you can't really get the base I would want to use. But you know what I mean? Like, yeah, just even just a little bit of baking soda just to get it within the zone where the. Just to get it within the zone where the PH isn't going to be too much for the gluten. It's like if you've ever had, well, your Bay Area dust and if, you know, the old school overly sour breads have that kind of like, obviously that bread was too sour texture, you know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

100%.

[Dave Arnold]

And those are done with AP. So if you tried to do that

[Dustin Everett]

with AP will help. Because if you use your own flour, it's hydration. Figure out a store brand basic flour and then what juice and then work from there. If you're going to add your. Because now you have a base of it now, you know, and then kind of tweak it a little bit how you want to tweak it.

[Dave Arnold]

Right. Because when you have the bran in it now you're. Now you have to add extra water to hydrate the bran to get the texture where you want it. But then that extra hydration isn't providing structure during the bake. And so I could see where that could be a problem. It'd be interesting to know where the line is. You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

I mean, when you asked him that, I in my head thought you were gonna say bread. I've never met you, but like bread is always. That's the one thing of like, hey, what did you try? And you messed up. What happened and how can we do better? Cause bread is a big. That's always a fun game. Like different time of year different. Like how has it been stored? Was it in a cold environment? Was it hot? Was it, you know what I mean? Was the humidity there? Was it open? There's a lot that goes with Brad and Bran.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, by the way, I forgot we didn't do this. And Joe will kill me. Well, first, we'll do this for those of you that in the next 13 minutes or so, if you're listening live. I know it's not our normal day, so you might not be listening live, but Patreon members can call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507 for our Dustin Everett. And then why don't you tell them why they might want to join the Patreon, Quinn?

[Quinn]

Right. You get, obviously you get to listen to the show live or you get the recording early. If you're at the higher tier, you get the video feed. If you submit questions, they get prioritized. We have deals with people like Kishnar, Grobend, Rhine Olive Oil and a few other friends of the show. And of course, access to the Discord where there is lots of like minded, in depth discussion about food and drinks.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, more in depth than you want. To that point, Eddie wrote in and said regarding Patreon, so let's take care of it right now. Eddie said, would you publish the list of juices and their acidity and adjustment to lemon or lime recipes here to Patreon? I have. Well, I thought you were gonna ask a different question, Eddie. Sorry I didn't read it carefully. I thought you were gonna write, could you publish all of the sugar and alcohol data for all of the syrups? But I have my juices, my alcohol, my liquor. So, like, if you need to know, like cafo Amaro, what is the sugar and alcohol level? I actually have that all published for all the Patreon people already. It's just you guys might not know it about two months ago or three months ago, I said, hey, there's some alcohol and sugar calculators going up on that. Basically only the Patreon people have access to right [e-mail] I was like, but, and, but I keep updating it. So there's a list of all of my ingredients on it that I use with all of the numbers that you guys are welcome to use if you're on the Patreon. Eventually it'll go public before I launch the Liquid Intelligence 2.0, but. But it's there right now.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I make all my bartenders read your liquid and tons.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, thank you.

[Quinn]

Thank you.

[Dave Arnold]

That's what I'm saying.

[Quinn]

Thank you.

[Dave Arnold]

Who knows when it's coming out? So it's 12 years old now. Who knows when the new one's gonna come out? But it's done.

[Dustin Everett]

Okay.

[Dave Arnold]

You know, so keep buying the old one. That's what I'm gonna say. Keep buying the old.

[Dustin Everett]

Keep buying the old one.

[Dave Arnold]

Keep buying the old one. Anyway, so that's on Patreon. And if you guys have questions, please let us know what you'd like to see. Cause we're also using you as a beta tester. Let me know what you want it to do. There's even. I don't want you to go to it yet because I haven't vetted it and it's very hard. Like for years, for decades now, I've been doing all of my cocktail development in a database that is Ms. Access, which is an old school database. That's how I used to make my money as a database designer. That's how I became who I am is I charged lawyers money to do their database work for them.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Arnold]

So I could back in the day do anything with an access database. Like anything. So stupid. I could do anything with an access database. That's how I built my cocktail database. I'm moving that to web based MySQL thing. There is a beta of that up there, but I can't guarantee any of that works. So if you go to it and look at it from my Patreon, I can't guarantee that it works. You know what I mean? And I'm also constantly changing it. So no guarantees express or implied. You know what I mean? Anyway. Okay, so now back to Dustin for a minute. Now, I first met you because you were a part of the momofuku empire at Sambar while I was over at Booker and Dax next door. Yeah, that was quite an arrangement.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, very much so. I remember cooking, roasting ducks in your bar.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So the way it worked was. The way it worked was the original Booker and Dax, there was Momofuku Sambar, which by the way was fantastic restaurant. It was a fantastic restaurant.

[Dustin Everett]

I still to the day think it was his best. I mean, I loved co, but Sambar was just more my style. Well, Sambar just Eating wise and like, being in an environment.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. Especially before. Like, before, like, there was a period in time when you could do a restaurant like that, and it was just fun and it didn't have to be hyped. And then. You know what I mean? And so it was just. Cause remember when Dave opened that restaurant, it was originally supposed to be, like, burritos in balsam style fast food during the day, and he couldn't get it to click. And then just because it was larger than noodle bar and it wasn't set yet, he just. He and Ten Ho and those guys just, like, they remember Chef Ryan Miller, too. Yeah. And so they would just go. They just busted out this menu that was just hitting on all cylinders. It was so good. You know what I mean? And it was. It was fun. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't that expensive. You know what I mean? And, yeah, it was great. And so then they took over the laundry behind them, turned it originally into Milk Bar. That was Christina Tosi's first joint. Right. Cause remember, for those of you that don't know, Christina Tosi, obviously, like, super, like, worldwide famous now, but started as a pastry chef and was working for, like, Wiley at WD and, you know, opens Milk Bar. She was at that time still literally writing people's HACCP plans for them.

[Dustin Everett]

Really?

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

[Dustin Everett]

That's crazy.

[Dave Arnold]

She was the first person writing HACCP plans after the Department of Health started cracking down on it. When they came down on it.

[Joe Hazen]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

She was the first person to start writing HACCP plans for New York City restaurants.

[Dustin Everett]

Oh, cool. I didn't know that.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. Because she had the connection to Chang and Wiley and they needed HACCP plans. Chang was the first person to get hit.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. Anyway, I remember that at Sambar. And also, just by the way, you know, Wiley saved my life. We'll get back. We'll talk about that later. But I was getting reamed by Chef Day, and Wiley came and literally saved my life. Like, he was like, yo, I need.

[Dave Arnold]

I was like, oh, God, it's so funny. Yeah. It was not a chill kitchen.

[Dustin Everett]

No.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

So, yeah, so they opened Milk Bar. Milk Bar closed, and then they opened Duck bar, and then they put that rotisserie in. And then every day, my bartender's getting their backsides blasted.

[Dustin Everett]

Every day. Yeah. When you get on that station, when you're like the Junior Sioux and you're on the meat station, right. And you have to run and get that boat, like, get that duck and you have to go across the bartenders while they're busy.

[Dave Arnold]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, geez. For those of you that don't know those rotisseries are not. They throw off heat even. I mean, when the glass is open.

[Quinn]

For sure.

[Dave Arnold]

Even when the glass is up. Yeah, yeah. It was a nice rotisserie, though.

[Dustin Everett]

It was a very. It was a very good duck.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, it was a very good duck. And so then. Wait, so before that, though, you were working in New Orleans for Besh?

[Dustin Everett]

I did. I worked for Besh and I worked a little bit for Susan Spicer, but mostly for Besh. I was with Besh for almost two

[Dave Arnold]

years, but I don't know. I don't know Besh. I mean, I've met him. When it comes to light that someone's done terrible things and then they get canceled out, what effect, downstream effect does that have on the people that have worked for them?

[Dustin Everett]

For me, it was obviously, that was a big come up for me. What Was he in 99? He was the best new chef. He had all the accolades. I moved there to work for him at Restaurant August. You stop talking about it. I guess, you know, I don't put it. I don't put it out a lot anymore. Especially when the stuff like that getting canceled. I just. It's kind of a past that I don't need to talk about anymore. I mean, it was years ago, right? It's 20 years ago.

[Dave Arnold]

Because the thing is, it's the same thing. Like at a certain point, you stop talking about where you went to school, because it doesn't matter anymore.

[Dustin Everett]

It's.

[Dave Arnold]

What did you do last week?

[Dustin Everett]

Just what did you do? Yeah, so, like, I just talk about my New York experience now, once he got. Because I was long gone when that all happened.

[Dave Arnold]

But it's just sad not to be able to.

[Dustin Everett]

Not to be able to talk about it, because he did. He sent me to Italy. I cooked in Italy so I could open Dominica for him. I've done a lot of stuff and it's just like, man.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, I hope you. I'm sorry to bring it up. I'm not doing it in an uncomfortable way.

[Dustin Everett]

Not at all. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, it's. I mean, the culture was. I could, I understood it, like, when it happened, the people that I was there with, like, I. I knew it was gonna. Something was gonna happen at some point.

[Quinn]

Right.

[Dustin Everett]

Like, even when I was there, that culture was there. Yeah, you felt it. But, you know, like I said, when we started a Lot of places had cultures like that. And it was just something that you dealt with, you know, whatever. It was not necessarily some of the other things he did, but like just the, the way the, the way it runs and like that. The heat, the heat of the battle, the yelling, the throwing of all that kind of stuff. Like that was just something I grew up with. Right. That's the kitchen.

[Dave Arnold]

But where are you mentally now on stress in a kitchen or applied stress? Let's put it this way. There's always stress in a kitchen, but then there's applied stress.

[Dustin Everett]

Exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

Like stress testing people in a way.

[Dustin Everett]

I think it was good to grow up in that because I think you need to know how bad it was and how good you can actually be. I consider myself a very low key guy. Excuse me. Very relaxed. I do. I deal well with pressure, I think, because I grew up with that, but I also know how to handle it and then release that to my workers where they're not feeling the pressure. I feel like I do a good job of I can take it and then I slowly bring it onto them, if you know what I mean.

[Dave Arnold]

Right. So you don't want.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

Cause happy kitchen, happy food. Like that always. Like, the more stressed you are, the more mistakes happen. You know how it is. Like somebody's berating you. And don't get me wrong, it's not like. I'm not saying I've never yelled. I've yelled. We've all yelled as parents, we've all yelled. But I do agree, like, nowadays you just, you have to. Happy, happy kitchen, happy kitchen, happy food.

[Dave Arnold]

The hard part for I don't have to do it. Cause I'm not in service now. But, you know, but even back when, like, you know, I was at Booker and Dax every day or whatever, you know, it's like the hard part is to get people to understand when you're just upset about a situation, but you're not upset with them.

[Dustin Everett]

Exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Everett]

Exactly, exactly. But, you know, and I think if you treat people the right way, like, they know when I'm upset and like, you can tell. Everybody gets. They can see it and they know. And like, I do the same way. And honestly, a lot of it is saying please and thank you. And also if you do get upset, I'm a big person on coming back around and being like, hey, it's not you, like, but this happened. Let's fix it. I appreciate it. Thank you for everything you do. You know what I mean? Don't walk out of the building. Without them knowing that, you don't recognize the situation that happened or just everyone flies off a handle. Now, again, you've been in service.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

It's a chaotic business. That's what it is. But I think people appreciate it if they realize, like, just a handshake or a please and thank you goes a long way.

[Dave Arnold]

Hey, Quinn, next week is no tangent. So can I get to these questions next week and I can ask some questions about fish cheeks? Yeah, we got, like.

[Quinn]

Should be no changes.

[Dave Arnold]

All right, we got, like, two. We got two minutes going on. So what's this story with. What. What's the story with Thai soy soy paste as opposed to other people's soy paste?

[Dustin Everett]

It just. I mean, it's all. I mean, honestly, Thai soy paste.

[Quinn]

It.

[Dustin Everett]

It's. It's really kind of what you want. It's just. Honestly, to me, it's in the person. I don't think it's necessarily, like, you got to use Thai soy paste. Like, I use Vietnamese products. I use green Korean products. I think it's more just about, like, what it is.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, your last place, you were doing, like, Filipino.

[Dustin Everett]

I was doing Filipino, yeah. So, like, I've gone.

[Dave Arnold]

I've only been to Philippines for one day. I need to go back.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I need to go back, too. But, yeah, that's it. It's just. But I do use a lot of Thai products, and I. I make my own paste, but Thai soy paste, like, to me, it just depends. Like, it's. It's on the flavor. And, like, even in Thailand, you see the same thing. Like, it's not always specific. Like, you'll get Vietnamese fish sauces. Like, you know.

[Dave Arnold]

All right, talk to me about your chicken wings.

[Dustin Everett]

Chicken wings. Zab powder. That's it.

[Dave Arnold]

Well, what kind of. Are you putting the toasted rice powder in it, too?

[Dustin Everett]

It's the toasted rice powder. Yeah. So basically, I don't know if you guys have ever had it, but it's a ramen noodle called Mama. It's an instant ramen noodle. Inspiration from my two partners, Jen and Chad, who grew up in Thailand. They would go around and crush the ramen noodle and empty the seasoning pack into it. So that's my play on the zap seasoning. So you have toasted rice powder, makrut, lime leaf, lemongrass, galangal, dehydrated lime, and then a couple secret ingredients I'm not going to give out. But we toss that so they're not breaded, marinated overnight, flash. And then we Just I bake them off and then it's basically a double fry.

[Dave Arnold]

But like, the first one's a bake, not a fry.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, first one's a bake. First one, I do a bake just to make them tender and get that skin crispy. And then I. And then I flash fry them very high. 3:80. So it's like very. So the skin's very crispy.

[Dave Arnold]

I'm gonna ask you two quick ones. I know we're out, but like, what is a Thai oyster dog? You guys did a hot dog situation.

[Dustin Everett]

So I did real quick. The oyster dog was a thing I did I had with Black Crescent. I also ran Wild Edibles, and I used to do an oyster dog. So it's my play with oysters to taste like a hot dog. So I cold smoke the oysters to give them like that nice smoky flavor. And then I fry pork rind and I make that into a powder and I deep fry the oysters in that. And then the rest was basically like my Chicago style with but like a Namjim seafood relish. Long red pickled long red peppers. Instead of tomato for the acid, I use mango.

[Quinn]

All right.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. And then I was doing a collab with Graza, so I use their mayonnaise.

[Dave Arnold]

The squeezy. The squeezy people.

[Dustin Everett]

Squeezy people.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yep.

[Dave Arnold]

Are you gonna bring that back next year?

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah, I'm probably gonna bring it back next July for.

[Dave Arnold]

You don't want to do all that work and then not bring it back.

[Dustin Everett]

I know. No, exactly.

[Dave Arnold]

It. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to do that,

[Dustin Everett]

but it's cool that it kind of plays with your mind. It tastes almost like a hot dog, but it's oysters.

[Dave Arnold]

I used to use Wild Edibles all the time. Do they still have consumer facing or is it wholesale only now?

[Dustin Everett]

It's wholesale only.

[Dave Arnold]

No, they used to be really good consumer facing because you could buy their professional commercial, like their restaurant quality fish you could buy as a human.

[Dustin Everett]

Yeah. I took over that restaurant, if you remember, at 30 fish 5th, between 35th and 36th on what? 3rd Ave. In Murray Hill. And that used to have a. It was actually like a seafood stand. And the restaurant, I took that over.

[Quinn]

Really?

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah. It used to be some of the best seafood you could buy as a consumer in New York. It's too bad. I wonder.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dustin Everett]

I don't know if they're around. I mean, I use Aquabest, so I'm a big Stephen guy. I like Aqua Best is my guy. I've been using them for years.

[Dave Arnold]

Yeah, most my son bankrupts me whenever I go to aquabest. All right, I had another question, but we're out of time time, so I'll have you back sometime. Go to Fish Cheeks, either in you

[Dustin Everett]

can go to Will Williamsburg, Williamsburg on Driggs or Noho on Bond Street.

[Dave Arnold]

Or it turns out in Miami.

[Dustin Everett]

Or in Miami.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Dave Arnold]

All right.

[Dustin Everett]

In Witwood.

[Dave Arnold]

Thanks for coming on.

[Dustin Everett]

I appreciate it. All right.

[Dave Arnold]

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