137: She couldn't fill her group anymore...(until Sold Out Group Programs)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Courage & Clarity - Episode 137: She couldn't fill her group anymore...(until Sold Out Group Programs)

Host: Steph Crowder
Guest: Janet Engel
Release Date: June 11, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 137 of Courage & Clarity, host Steph Crowder welcomes Janet Engel, a professional performing oboist and coach for musician entrepreneurs. This episode delves into Janet's journey of overcoming challenges in filling her group programs and achieving sustainable business growth through Steph's "Sold Out Group Programs Mastermind."

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Guest Background

Janet Engel is not only a talented oboist but also dedicates her expertise to running educational programs tailored for OBO artists. Additionally, she coaches musician entrepreneurs on building and sustaining their musical businesses without compromising their artistry and ambitions.

Janet introduces her role:

“I am Janet Engel and I am a professional performing oboist. But in addition to like actually showing up and playing my instrument, I run educational programs for OBO artists to help them to lean into their own artistry… and I also coach musician entrepreneurs on how to run their own musical businesses.”
[02:00]

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The Challenge: Struggling to Fill Group Programs

Despite experiencing significant success during the pandemic, Janet found herself struggling to maintain the same level of enrollment post-pandemic. Her reliance on a small, consistent group of clients was no longer sustainable.

Janet explains her predicament:

“I was feeling incredibly launch shy because… the last few launches… yielded results like three people, four people.”
[04:00]

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Pandemic Success vs. Post-Pandemic Challenges

During the pandemic, Janet's programs sold out effortlessly as many individuals were at home and eager to engage via Zoom. However, as circumstances changed, including economic uncertainty and increased personal busyness among her clients, enrollment numbers dropped.

Janet reflects on the shift:

“During the pandemic I had like several sold out programs… the more distant we got from that, the more I began to hear people say… I just didn’t hear anything at all.”
[05:35]

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Seeking Solutions: Joining the Mastermind Program

Determined to find a sustainable solution, Janet joined Steph's "Sold Out Group Programs Mastermind" in the fall of 2024. This program offered a structured approach to revamp her sales and marketing strategies.

Steph introduces the mastermind:

“...clients get an entire year with me inside of the program... you are in the first cohort.”
[02:39]

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Implementing New Strategies: The Five-Week Buzz Blitz Process

Through the mastermind, Janet learned to slow down her launch process, incorporate individual reach-outs, and effectively utilize waitlists. These strategies contrasted sharply with her previous approach of rapidly launching new offers with minimal interaction.

Janet describes her new approach:

“Using the templates that you have in the program… I felt that I slowed down and stretched out the launch a lot more than I had been doing previously.”
[10:56]

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Key Insights: Mastery vs. Sales Skills

A significant revelation for Janet was understanding that mastery in her field does not automatically translate to customer acquisition. She recognized the need to develop direct sales and marketing skills to effectively communicate her value and attract new clients.

Janet shares a critical insight:

“Music conservatory… they do not teach you how to do online marketing. And they do not teach you how to, like, directly ask for a sale.”
[09:01]

Steph reinforces this mindset:

“The misconception… [is] like, actually, you are amazing. It's just that sales and marketing is a different skill set.”
[09:30]

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Transformative Results: A Successful Launch

Implementing the strategies from the mastermind, Janet's recent launch of her "Invincible Oboist" program was a resounding success. She enrolled 13 participants—half before the official launch event—demonstrating the effectiveness of personalized outreach and a well-structured launch timeline.

Janet celebrates her success:

“I ended up with 13 delightful people in my program… half of them… came in before I even had a launch event.”
[11:00]

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Overcoming Hesitations: Embracing Direct Outreach

Initially hesitant to reach out directly due to her introverted nature, Janet found confidence through Steph's guidance and the supportive community within the mastermind. The concept of the "magic ripple" helped her reframe her approach to engaging existing contacts.

Janet discusses overcoming fears:

“I found that reframed the idea that it is not pushy to… reach out to people and let them know I can help them.”
[15:33]

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Program Impact: Comprehensive Support and Clarity

Janet highlights the invaluable support and resources provided by the mastermind program. From accessible materials to active support within the Slack group and personalized feedback, the program offered her the clarity and confidence needed to elevate her business.

Janet praises the program:

“There is a lot of support inside the Slack group where I can Ask for coaching and have a response within a day. … seeing the tweaks that you are making to my copy was really eye opening.”
[18:24]

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Advice to Aspiring Entrepreneurs

For listeners who possess expertise in their fields but struggle with sales and marketing, Janet wholeheartedly recommends Steph's mastermind program. She emphasizes the program's focused curriculum and supportive environment as key factors in her transformation.

Janet advises potential participants:

“For anyone who, like me, has mastery in your field but isn't sure how to sell it… your program is terrific.”
[24:21]

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Conclusion: Connecting with Janet

Janet Engel concludes the episode by sharing her contact information, inviting listeners to explore her work through her website, podcast, and YouTube channel.

Janet shares her platforms:

“They can find [e-mail] or I am the crushing classical podcast or I am on YouTube as the five minute read maker.”
[25:05]

Steph wraps up the conversation:

“Thank you so much for hanging out with us. It's been amazing, Janet.”
[25:17]

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Key Takeaways

• Mastery vs. Marketing: Expertise alone doesn't guarantee client acquisition; developing sales and marketing skills is crucial.

• Structured Launches: A well-planned, extended launch process with personalized outreach can significantly improve enrollment numbers.

• Overcoming Fears: Reframing sales as making meaningful connections rather than pushy tactics can empower introverts and reserved individuals to engage effectively.

• Support Systems: Access to ongoing support, feedback, and resources accelerates business growth and personal confidence.

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Notable Quotes

• Janet Engel on Program Impact:
  “…there was a lot more individual reach outs that happened early in my process… I was able to enroll half the program before I even did my official launch event.”
  [10:56]

• Steph Crowder on Sales and Marketing Skills:
  “It's just that sales and marketing is a different skill set. And once you learn how to harness that skill set…”
  [09:30]

• Janet Engel on Reframing Outreach:
  “Realizing that the people who were closest in were probably the most likely to be interested… that brought me around.”
  [15:03]

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This episode serves as an inspiring case study for female entrepreneurs seeking to transform their business strategies, emphasizing the importance of combining passion with actionable marketing tactics to achieve sustainable success.

Transcript

[Steph Crowder]

Hey there. Are you ready to learn the only process that you need to fill up your group program or really any signature offer anytime you want year round? I've got an upcoming advanced sales training class called fill your group program in five weeks. This is a three part roadmap to consistently sell out your offer year round anytime. In this training we are going to talk about my signature 5 week buzz blitz process. I'm going to show you the calendar for how to create a five or even six figure launch and also going to learn the three key ingredients for a step by step rinse and repeat sales cycle that brings you consistently full groups. You just have to go to stephcrowder.comworkshop to get all signed up again. It's on June 24th. That's a Tuesday at 12pm Eastern Time and I cannot wait to see you there. Welcome to the Courage and Clarity podcast. I'm your host, Steph Crowder. I'm a former sales training director who's helped thousands of entrepreneurs earn a living doing something they love over the past 10 years. On your journey, you'll need the courage to be bold, to take risks, and to do what looks crazy on paper. You'll also need the clarity, the brass tacks, simple strategies that actually work. And on this podcast we deliver both in equal measure. Oh and by the way, we've got absolutely no time for bs gross marketing tactics or get rich quick schemes. Just sustainable business strategies for good humans with big dreams. If that sounds like you, you're in the right place. Let's go. Janet, welcome to the podcast.

[Janet Engel]

Thank you Steph.

[Steph Crowder]

I'm so excited to have you today. So why don't we get started. Tell us about you and your business and how it is that you earn your living.

[Janet Engel]

Great. Hi, I am Janet Engel and I am a professional performing oboist. But in addition to like actually showing up and playing my instrument, I run educational programs for OBO artists to help them to lean into their own artistry. To like, because their artistry matters. And I also coach musician entrepreneurs on how to run their own musical businesses, their own portfolio careers so that they can so that they can make the money that they actually need to live on. Like everybody needs, while not sacrificing their artistry and their ambitions.

[Steph Crowder]

I love that. So good. It's such a fun niche and it's been really fun to get to coach you so far in the sold out group programs Mastermind, because you are one of my clients who joined last fall so in the fall of 2024. So we are going to have some conversation around what you've been able to do in the program so far, what you're working on now, because, you know, clients get an entire year with me inside of the program, which is still relatively new. In fact, you are in the first cohort. That is an entire year. It used to just be six months, which was really fun. But as I've shared before on the podcast, I typically found that a lot of people would go ahead and decide to resign anyway at the six month mark. But sometimes I had to say goodbye to people and it was like, oh, we're like just getting to the good stuff or just getting to the juicy stuff. So it's been really fun that I get to have clients like you, Jenna, for an entire year. So we're at about that halfway mark, a little bit, a little bit more. And you've been able to do some awesome stuff in the program so far. So we're going to talk about that. But before we get there, let's kind of just rewind the tape. Tell us to, you know, we met at least our first conversation was you considering joining the program in fall September of 2024. Where were you in your business? If you kind of were to flashback to the problems that you had and the things that you were hoping to accomplish, what was going on for you at that time?

[Janet Engel]

I think at that time I was ready to open up a new launch for a program that I had run many times before. But I was feeling incredibly launch shy because although I'd had so much success during the pandemic, so much success immediately after the pandemic, I had so many people, so many clients who had come to work with me and kept working with me and kept working with me. And the last few launches that I had run for this program or for any of my programs had yielded results like three people, four people. And the people were wonderful and I loved them and they kept coming back and kept continuing to work with me. But I was in a place of feeling like it was not sustainable to continue to monetize the same dozen people as I had been doing for five years or so, really needing to find my way to actually selling the offer, to actually filling my program with new people that I hadn't met before. And I didn't know what to do other than the things I had already been doing.

[Steph Crowder]

And would you say I hear this one a lot, but just to hear a little bit more, were those things that you had been doing, they were working? Had they been working better in like pandemic times and then stopped working or what was that trajectory like in terms of like how things changed over, over time?

[Janet Engel]

I think they worked great. During the pandemic I had like several sold out programs and met some of the people that I am still working with to this date. It felt easy for me during the pandemic when people were at home and people were bored and it was easy to have them show up on Zoom just because I announced that I was doing a thing. And the more, the more distant we got from that, the more I began to hear people say, well, yeah, I'd love to work with you, but I'm just so busy right now. I would love to work with you, but the economy, the chaos, I can't afford it right now.

[Steph Crowder]

Yeah.

[Janet Engel]

Or that I just didn't hear anything at all. I would put offers out. I felt as though I was just throwing spaghetti all the time. Like I had only three people in my main offer. So therefore I will throw something else out there and perhaps I'll see if I can do a little four week thing. Perhaps I'll see if I can do a little six week thing. And it's not that the things weren't working. Like I would always get somebody in.

[Steph Crowder]

Right.

[Janet Engel]

But it wasn't giving me the stability and the, and the ability that I wanted to just really dig in with a group of people and really get them some results, you know, I'm really.

[Steph Crowder]

Happy that you brought that up because it is, I think, a really natural pattern and something I see a lot where we have something that was working, it even felt easy. And then it starts to maybe have some diminishing returns or the signs start to be there that, okay, maybe this is not as easy as it once was. And it's interesting that you shared the reaction to that. Is the spaghetti throwing, right? I see that a lot where it's like, oh, okay, well, shoot, let me like cash injection over here, cash injection over there, let me try this, let me try that. When really it's. And like you said, it's not that it didn't work necessarily, like there was always someone there, but I think for folks like you and like me and the people that I help, there is this like deep craving to dig in with a group of people to really help. Like we haven't stopped wanting to give people that greater transformation that some of the deeper work does it. It has a different energy to it. Like it can be fun to spin up new ideas, but there's a groundedness that and a Peacefulness that comes from, like, I have my signature programs, and I'm just rocking with those, and I'm filling those, and I'm able to go really deep with people versus kind of some of the shinier objects, I think.

[Janet Engel]

Yeah, I think it's exactly that. And so where I. It's exactly that I really wanted to be able to show up with my full presence and deliver a transformation that, like, took a little while to get to. And I was getting very frustrated at not having that. And it felt as though. As though I just didn't know what I was doing. I have a great deal of mastery in my actual field, but weirdly, at music conservatory, they do not tell you how to do online marketing. And they. They do not teach you how to, like, directly ask for a sale. They do not teach you how to write copy that actually communicates to people not only what I do and how I can help, but that they should drop everything now and come work with me.

[Steph Crowder]

Right? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I actually have been thinking about this a lot. I wrote an email for people on my list all about this, about how a lot of times there's this misconception that mastery in your field should automatically equal customers. Right. Like, I've even had a client say that to me, where she had been under the impression she'd heard a mentor of hers say, if you're any good at your craft, the customers will come automatically.

[Janet Engel]

Like, that's such a. That's such a classical musician way to think. Also, like, we are taught to not do anything until it's perfect. Get into your practice room, stay there until it's. Till it's good, till it's right, till it's clean, and then the magic will happen, the career will happen, and that's not the way it works.

[Steph Crowder]

Yeah. And I think a lot of people are trained that way in different niches and in different industries. And so this is why I believe I'm here, is because people who are amazing at what they do will come to the conclusion they have no. And at the same time, they have no customers or fewer clients than they want. And so they end up deciding or assuming, well, I must not be as good as I thought I was. Right. And that, to me is like, the misconception that gets me so fired up is like, actually, you are amazing. It's just that sales and marketing is a different skill set. And once you learn how to harness that skill set, I've really been thinking about how it is this blend of the brilliance in your Brain with the psychology of selling and understanding it, then once that clicks for people, then we're able to create different results. Yeah. Yeah. So for you, I know that that's really exactly what you worked on when you came into the program. So I would love to hear the story of one of the launches that you did inside of the sold out groups. Group programs, Mastermind and yeah, tell us what happened and how you implemented the things you were learning and what your results were like.

[Janet Engel]

Thank you. It's funny, the last two launches that I had done for my Invincible Oboist program, I had had very, very small enrollment of beautiful people who I continue to work with to this day. But this time around, using the templates that you have in the program, using the calendar that you have in the program, I felt that I slowed down and stretched out the launch a lot more than I had been doing previously. There was a lot more individual reach outs that happened early in my process. There was a lot more enrolling a wait list and then reaching out to people individually off the wait list to like talk to them about the Invincible Locust. I had never done steps like that before and I was able to enroll half the program before I even did the, before I even did my, my official launch event. And previously, I think the, the years before this, I had just sort of flung a launch event out into space and had a two week cart open. And whatever happened, happened. And this time around it felt so different. I ended up with 13 delightful people in my program. Delightful people in my program. Half of them, as I said, came in before I even had a launch event. The others came in right up till the end. And I think the thing that really changed for me besides the stretched out scale of that launch was my confidence in just asking for the sale, saying directly. I think you would be a great fit. I would love to work with you here and, and having that, and having that magic work.

[Steph Crowder]

Amazing. And that, like you said, it's something that you hadn't done before. And when you say that you hadn't done it before, would you say that? I'd love to just dig into that a little bit more. Was it that it never occurred to you to do it or was it that you didn't know how to do it? Like, I'm curious about how you were able to. Like, that is a really new and different skill set to do personal reach outs. And for a lot of people I know that can feel the word that comes to mind is forward. It feels very forward to reach out and say hey, like, I call it making the first move. Right. It's like, hey, I think you'd be a great fit. I would love to work with you. Was that difficult for you to make that mental leap, or was it that once you had the. Because we do have the templates for this. Is it that once you knew the words, it clicked for you right away? I'd love to just hear a little bit more about how you got there.

[Janet Engel]

Thank you. I mean, it will. News flash here, Steph, you are not my first coach, and you are not the first person who has said, oh, you should reach out to people in advance of your actual launch.

[Steph Crowder]

Right.

[Janet Engel]

But there was something about the way you talked about your magic ripple with the little bullseye that you draw on your whiteboard.

[Steph Crowder]

Yes.

[Janet Engel]

Which really brought home how important this was. And so. And so I think it may have been that. I think it was just that reframing of. Of course I want to bring in new people that I've never met before, because in my imagination, the people who have been following me for years, the people who are watching my YouTube channel and. And subscribed to my emails, those are people who have heard about this program umpty ump times already. They're never going to be my people. I need new people, fresh people, people that I've never seen or worked with before. And I think it was your ripple idea that reframed that for me and that, interestingly, I've been using as a concept for a number of my coaching clients.

[Steph Crowder]

Great. Love that.

[Janet Engel]

Because realizing that. Realizing anew that the people who were closest in were probably the most likely to be interested if they hadn't unsubscribed from my email list in the last five years, they probably weren't going to do it over a friendly email reach out. And I think that it was that reframe that that brought me around.

[Steph Crowder]

Yeah. That's so good. I think it is. Really one of the things that we do in the program that is a light bulb, I think, is helping people recognize interest. Right. And for example, someone who continues to be on your list, continues to watch your YouTube videos, continues to open is that's interest. Right. And I always like to use this analogy of, like, it's, you know, that classic situation where you're out talking to somebody and then you go back to your friends and they're like, do you realize that person was flirting with you? And you're like, no, they weren't. Like, we were just talking. And you're like, no, no, no, There was something. You're like, no, there's nothing there. Sales. I often make this little parallel between sales and dating because both are so informed by human psychology. And so we forget that someone giving us any attention, whether it's a, like on Instagram, a comment, a follow, a listen to your podcast. Like, if you really think about how many choices people have in their day and how busy all of us are, it is no small thing that they're paying attention. And it's. I really appreciate you bringing this up, Janet, because it is so tempting to be like, well, they didn't. If they didn't convert before, they're not going to. They already heard me say everything. So I need brand new people. And it's not that we don't focus on getting new people. New people are great. But. But really there's so much magic that can happen in converting the interest that's already there. And I think that's why people like yourself tend to come into the program and be able to generate pretty quick results because those eyeballs just needed a little bit more, a little bit different in order to be able to finally say. I've been wanting to say yes the whole time, and now I finally feel like I can do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Okay. So amazing launch results. 13 people in your program. Love it. What have you. What. What's next for you in the program? What are you up to now? If you maybe kind of talk about some of the. And also if you. If. If you would like to share. For a lot of people too, listening. This is not their first coaching experience, just like you. So how is it different? How do you feel supported in maybe a new and different way or what's it really like now that you're kind of on the inside of this experience?

[Janet Engel]

Thank you. I think it took me a little while to. Of just sitting in the coaching calls and listening to the words washing over me and looking through your curriculum and your content to find the reframe I needed inside me, which is that it is not pushy to like actually reach out to people and let them know I can help them. And the fact that I wanted to have more than three people in my program wasn't me being selfish. It was me thinking that the experience would be better for everyone with more people, which it was.

[Steph Crowder]

Yeah.

[Janet Engel]

I really appreciate in your program the combination of there's a lot of very accessible material that I can access, like anytime that I want. There's a lot of support inside the. Inside the Slack group where I can Ask for coaching and have a response within a day. Having you and Cammie and now Hayley, looking at my content through the feedback submissions has been really valuable just to see, you know, I, I can write copy, I can write things I've written before. But to look at the tweaks that you are making to my copy, just to bring that much more directness to the process was really eye opening. So it has. It helped me a lot to just find that clarity in my own thought or to have that clarity, like distilled out of my pages of paragraphs.

[Steph Crowder]

Yeah. And have it reflected back. Absolutely. You know, it's funny having this conversation with you now because people sometimes are surprised that I, I hear this a lot, actually, that people are surprised that I remember so many things. I know my clients very well and I remember pretty much every conversation I've had with them. And I even. I'm thinking about our sales call that we had together. So for people that are thinking about joining this program, you can have an hour long sales call with me where I will really dive deep into what you've got going on and we'll put together this three part plan of what you're going to tackle with me over the year. And I remember everyone's, and I remember Janet's, and I remember one of the objections or hesitations that you had was, it's hard to give me one I haven't heard before. But you did, and I thought it was a really good one that other people probably have. I want to bring it back up now, now that you're on the other side. And you were like, yes, I want to do this. So you were a. Yes, you were like, I want to do this. But you were like, I have to be honest, the idea of like being the new kid and like learning all the new things and getting to know the new platforms. And you were like, I w. You said to me, I wish I could just fast forward and like be in it. And I thought that was such a great and honest hesitation because I've been in plenty of programs too, and I hate that part too, like orientation and getting comfortable. And I. It was so well said when you were like, I wish that we could just. I could get to the good part. Right. So it's. And I thought to myself, even though I've never heard that from someone before, I bet other people are thinking that. So now that you're on the other side of it, what are your thoughts about the part of you that was like, yes, I want to do it? But, like, I don't want to have to go through that part.

[Janet Engel]

You know, what I really liked on that hour long sales call that you did with me is that you answered that objection with, well, here's what you can do to ease in right now. Like, I put my money down and then immediately had access to the trove of previous coaching calls. And even though I didn't take a lot of action based on just listening to that podcast feed of old coaching calls, it did make me feel like after, you know, going for a few runs and listening to the voices sort of wash over me, it felt a little safer. It felt like, okay, this is. I understand what the language is that's happening in here and I understand what the questions sound like and what the feedback sounds like. And that felt very reassuring. And it was also fun to be able to, like, poke around inside the curriculum before we actually got started. So what is the question I'm answering? I still don't like orientations. I don't like that. I don't like that initial, like, uncomfortable couple of weeks where I'm like, well, can I ask this? Is this a thing I can ask? Is this a thing I can do? And I don't know a way to run a program without a certain amount of, oh, pussyfooting around in the first week. So I thought you did great. It was fun. Thank you.

[Steph Crowder]

I'm glad. I just thought that was really something that people have probably thought and don't bring up. And so I thought it might be. It would just be interesting to hear your perspective on it now. And I think that's a great answer. And that's something that we do on purpose with my program is when you join, you get this bonus time. That's what Janet's describing, this bonus time. With all of my previous coaching calls I've had people have crazy transformations and amazing launches before I've ever coached them because they're just listening to the calls and going through the material. And so, yeah, I think it is a good for folks to know that, like, you can jump in and start getting your feet wet and you can come into. I can always tell who does that by the way, because you come in with this energy of like, I've been here. I haven't been here, but I've been here. I've been, like, in the shadows watching. And now I'm ready to come in and just like, I understand how the group functions and I. And I feel more comfortable. So thank you for sharing that.

[Janet Engel]

It's really helpful as an introvert. I think that's actually very helpful. Yeah, my, you know, party Persona is also slinking around the edges until I see my way in.

[Steph Crowder]

Yes. That's so good. I love that. Okay, so as we kind of wrap up our conversation, Jenna, I would love to hear anything else you want to share. For sure. But then specifically, if you think about talking to the people who are listening right now who are really considering coming into the program and making this leap, they're sort of debating their own set of hesitations. If you think about the version of yourself that was making this decision or anyone else who might be in that boat right now, what would you offer? What would you say that, you know, might be helpful for them to really feel empowered? I always like to say, like, whether you decide to join or you decide that right now, I just love people to feel really good about that decision. Either way, what would you say?

[Janet Engel]

I would say that for anyone who, like me, has mastery in your field but isn't sure how to sell it, how to talk about it, how to bring people in towards you, I think your program is terrific. You've got such a clear and full featured curriculum around this exact topic. It's very focused, it's very specific, and the amount of support that actually happens within the program is fantastic.

[Steph Crowder]

I love it. Thank you so much for that reflection. Please tell the good people who are listening where they can find you if they want to check out what you do and learn more.

[Janet Engel]

Absolutely. They can find [e-mail] or I am the crushing classical podcast or I am on YouTube as the five minute read maker.

[Steph Crowder]

So good. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. It's been amazing, Janet.

[Janet Engel]

Thank you, Stephen.