← Courage & Clarity
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, real quick, before we dive in, I've got a really exciting announcement. My mastermind, which is a year long and it's called Sold out Group programs, is officially open for enrollment right now. You can go to stephcrowder.com SOGP to read all of the details and get your application in. If you've been wanting consistent, repeatable sales, you're tired of winging it and wondering when your next clients are coming and where they're going to come from.
- [00:26]
B
And.
- [00:27]
A
And if you like the sound of weekly coaching with me, deep feedback on your sales assets and a proven system that actually works for me and my clients in 2025, now is the time to apply. This is a limited capacity experience and we sell out every round. So again, go to Steph Crowder.com so GP and hit apply. All right, let's get into the episode. Welcome to the Courage and Clarity podcast. I'm your host, Steph Crowder. I'm a former sales training director who's helped thousands of entrepreneurs earn a living doing something they love over the past 10 years. On your journey, you'll need the courage to be bold, to take risks, and to do what looks crazy on paper. You'll also need the clarity, the brass tacks, simple strategies that actually work. And on this podcast, we deliver both in equal measure. Oh, and by the way, we've got absolutely no time for bs, gross marketing tactics or get rich quick schemes. Just sustainable business strategies for good humans with big dreams. If that sounds like you, you're in the right place. Let's go. Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I am so very excited to be welcoming one of my clients onto the show today. I have Mara Eller with me. Hi, Mara.
- [01:49]
B
Hi. Thanks for having me.
- [01:51]
A
Thank you for being here. All right, please tell everybody all about you, your business, and how you earn your living.
- [01:58]
B
Yeah. I'm Mara Eller. I am a writing coach, teacher, editor, book coach, and I do online classes and I've been doing Steph's program. Now this is my second time, well, kind of third time, but been around learning from her for I think two years now and just seen incredible growth in that time. Been really leaning into my one on one offer, which is book coaching and of course, professional editing on books, as well as starting a podcast and just trying to support writers and authors and lovers of literature in all the ways.
- [02:46]
A
You know, we were kind of organizing our thoughts before we hit record. And I forgot to mention that I wanted to touch on this part too. I think I'm going to Bring it here for a second because I think there are some people listening who have a very similar goal to the goal that you once had and might find it inspiring to know that. I think when we first met, you were sort of in this place, you were teaching in school, right. You were a school teacher and sort of were having these questions like, could it ever be possible for me to no longer do that and to do a business full time? Tell us about that and where you are today.
- [03:20]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because it's so easy for me to skip over that and forget it. Right.
- [03:26]
A
It's like your new normal.
- [03:28]
B
Right. Two years ago I was doing my business part time. You know, I was bringing in some, some side money. It was a really, a side hustle. I had a basically full time job teaching English and writing at a high school, also college level, but and also working as a guidance counselor. And I have three kids. It was like very busy, lots of hats. But I felt called to this work and it was something that I wanted to lean into, but I didn't know how to take it to the next level. And I definitely didn't know how to ever get to the place where I could leave the day job because the more I worked in my business then, you know, the. There was just only so much time. Right. And I felt like very constricted by that. And I didn't know how to scale, I didn't know how to grow in a way that I could actually manage while having a day job to then be ever able to leave the day job. So that's where I was when we came in. I could, I could barely even say what my business was about at that point. Still working on us.
- [04:37]
A
But that work is never over, right?
- [04:40]
B
How many times have you coached me on it already? Because it's always growing and developing, which is the same thing. But so long story short, this summer, this, this May was my last year, my last month working at the school. So I've been employed there for. That was my 11th year and I was able to step back and move into my own business full time. It is something that our family relies on for income. So, you know, it's not. There's some pressure there for sure. And I remember people asking me, well, how does it feel? Are you nervous? And I remember thinking, well, not really. And I think so much of that was being in your program. And I mean, having gone through a year of your coaching already, but then being back in the program and knowing. But whatever comes up like I'm going to be able to handle it because Steph's going to tell me what to do and help me through all of the, the mind nonsense that can happen. And, you know, I had enough confidence in my own abilities that I knew you could bridge the gap between there and my ability to talk about those and actually reach clients and bring people in to benefit from my expertise. So it's really been like very smooth compared to, I think, how that would be for a lot of people. And here I am working from home, living the dream.
- [06:19]
A
Exactly. I loved the moment, especially when like back to school came around and you were sort of looking around like, I'm not, I'm. I'm staying here. I'm not, I'm not going back into the school with everybody else. And it was, seemed like it was almost like a surreal moment for you where you were like, is this really happening? And here you are.
- [06:38]
B
Yeah. And one of the things that was important to me that I was working towards with all of this was being able to have more time, but really more capacity to be present with my children who are now 10, 8 and 5. And you know, I put in a lot of hours and on the nights and weekends over the last few years to get to this point. And I was really, really excited to realize just a couple weeks into the school year that because now I'm at home all day, I'm able to have that quiet like that concentrated time for work and then get in the car and pick them up and actually have energy to be with them and be more present.
- [07:28]
A
I love that. I really do. You know, you are someone who came into the program. So. So we'll talk about this in a minute. But just for context for everyone, we, Mara and I worked together for a year. Mara took a break, a six month break, and then has come back into the mastermind recently. And so we're going to kind of talk about what's happened since she came back because it's been just like, stay tuned because the spoiler alert it's like absolutely amazing. But I just want to go back to actually that when we first met and you first came into the program, you were someone. I think this is really important for people who are thinking about working with me or really working with any business coach making any kind of investment like this. There's something that comes up that I like to call coaching perfectionism, where you sort of feel like I have to have all my ducks in a row before I go into a container like this. Or I really want to refine some things. I. There's kind of this belief, like, let me get as far as I can go on my own and be, quote, unquote, be ready to fully soak in the goodness that's going to come my way from the program. Right. When I think back on when we first met, you are somebody who had a lot of questions and a lot of doubt and a lot of, like, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick on you, not more than the average person, but you. I really respected the way that you. If you had that perfectionism, you still managed to show up and, and, and be honest anyway. And you were like, what about this? What about that? And you kind of just laid it all out there. And I'm curious for your thoughts on this, because I think there is really that belief that we have to be ready, and I actually think it's the total opposite. I think coming to a space like this where you do have a lot of questions and not waiting for that moment to be perfect, like, that allowed us to really unpack. And it took time and it took a lot of coaching, and you were very coachable throughout, and that's a big reason why you are where you are today. But what are your thoughts on that as you sort of look back to being in that space of like, what if you had waited to, like, feel more clear before jumping into something like this?
- [09:39]
B
Yeah, I mean, okay, so I certainly can remember feeling a few times like, oh, there's a lot of people that are a lot farther ahead than me. And, you know, I mean, I still have that with, like, oh, these people have however many thousands on their email list and, you know, I don't. But I mean, that's going to happen no matter what. So, you know, we can find a million ways to make ourselves feel lesser. But I mean, first of all, I think the program, all of the times that I've been in it still now, you know, is a very welcoming place. There are people in all stages. And I think whether it's the people that you attract or the culture that you foster, combination, you know, there's no sense of competition or, you know, judgment from people. Like, every time that someone is particularly vulnerable in coaching, there's always, you know, on our live calls, there's always so many people in the comments saying, oh, I totally feel like that. Oh, this is so helpful for me. Thank you for sharing. You know, and there's been multiple times of people, you know, tearing up because, I mean, I'm getting slightly off topic from your question, but I'll come back to it. But I think one of the things I wasn't expecting that I appreciate so much about entrepreneurship and particularly coaching, your coaching and this experience, is that it's not just business coaching, it's life coaching. Like, it's character coaching. And that's something that maybe would happen no matter what because entrepreneurship just has so much of ourselves in it. But I think that's also an aspect that you really lean into as a coach, which I really love. So it's not just growing my business or making my business better. It's also making me a better person, which is pretty much priceless. So. But back to your question, I think. I mean, I just approach it like it was a big investment for me. I mean, it still is significant, but especially back then when I wasn't making as much with my business, that was a very significant investment. And so in order to justify that, I decided I was going to show up, like, very seriously. I was going to. I wasn't going to let this go to waste, you know, So, I mean, I think the whole reason I was there is because I didn't have that clarity. And your podcast title, you know, spoke to that. Like, I don't have clarity. I don't know exactly what I'm doing, and I don't know where I'm going, and I want somebody to help me figure that out. So that's, like, exactly what I was there to get coached on. And then I just figure, I don't know, maybe it's just a practice that I've developed in my decades on this planet, but I rarely regret being transparent or vulnerable in life. And if I do that and someone responds badly, then I just avoid that person in the future. But so many times, I mean, that's where the growth comes from. So I would just, you know, bring the messy questions and. And, like, let it be a gradual, messy process and, you know. But used to be called the messy middle when I joined.
- [13:24]
A
Right.
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B
And this is something we talked about back then, but that name really spoke to me because it did feel so messy. And I thought that by joining you would help me clean up the mess.
- [13:37]
A
I remember when you realized this.
- [13:41]
B
And then I remember saying, oh, actually, what you do is you help us get comfortable with it being messy and moving forward anyway.
- [13:52]
A
Right.
- [13:53]
B
Which was such a mindset shift that's been really powerful. I still want it to be tidier than it is, and I want myself to be more organized and all those things, but I appreciate that it's given me that permission. So business is messy. Life is messy. It's okay for the coaching to be messy. Just.
- [14:14]
A
Yeah.
- [14:15]
B
Sometimes, you know, we don't even know what our question is, but we come to coaching anyway and just ramble for a little while. And then you say, well, this is what I'm hearing.
- [14:23]
A
Those are sometimes my favorite conversations, when somebody's like, I don't know what my question is, but I just know I need to be here. I'm like, oh, it's gonna be a good one. So you don't have to have it all figured out in advance by any means.
- [14:33]
B
Definitely, yeah.
- [14:35]
A
So for you, you came back recently, and I'd love to kind of just talk about. Yeah. Before I get too far ahead of myself with what's happened since you came back, talk to us a little bit about that decision. And, I mean, obviously you had the experience of having worked with me before, which not everybody has, so you knew what it was going to be like. You knew what you were walking into. But other than that, if you think about, like, your reasons for saying, because you had mentioned before we started recording, that one of the reasons that you decided to take a break was, like, being a little bit more conservative with investments. Right. How did you make that decision to be like, okay, it's time for me to reinvest in coaching and being in this space?
- [15:19]
B
Well, I had always. When I. When I took the break, I. I convinced myself to do it because I knew I was going to miss it. But I thought, okay, well, I can. I can join back again in six months. And those six months went well. I felt like I had my marching orders from the coaching and I had some plans of what I was going to be doing during that time and had a lot of things I wanted to implement because there's just so much opportunity for feedback in the program. So it was like a chance for me to catch up on doing everything that I had gotten all this coaching to do. But so it wasn't like, oh, this is actually terrible. I can't do it on my own. It was like, okay, like, this is going well, but look how much I grew in that year. And what if I could grow that much again in the next year? And then, of course, stepping back from my day job, you know, I knew that there would be some new things coming up, going into working from home full time. I'm not always the best at using my time, so even just those little things of like. Like, I remember in the first year in the program, just Coming to the calls every Tuesday. I remember several times I would. I would start out feeling like I don't want to do anything for my business. Like, I'm tired. I have my other job. Like, I don't want to do this stuff. And I would start listening to other people being coached, and all of a sudden I'd be like, oh, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to do this thing. So there was just something really grounding about that and encouraging and motivating. And, you know, I just looked at my finances, and I mean, that. That's another just simple thing that your program has helped me with is I'm not a natural at, like, budgeting and marketing. Like, I. I do the more creative stuff. That's where I live. Right. And just thinking about, like, minimum viable income, like, okay, I had some idea of what I needed to make and where I was financially, so I felt confident that I could make the investment work. And, you know, also had a lot of confidence that I would make more as a result of the. Of being in the program than I would otherwise. So just decided to go for it. I mean, there's no guarantees in life, but I felt like this is pretty much as close to a guarantee as you can get that I would grow a lot through that experience.
- [18:09]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that I see in a lot of people that I talk to who are thinking about making a decision like this, where they're like, well, I could probably figure this out on my own. Like. And like you said, when you were outside of the program, things. Things were going well. It's not that things went so terribly that you were like, oh, my God, I have to be back in. But I love the reframe of, what if I could grow that just that much more? And what if I could. What if things could just go that much faster? I have been thinking a lot about this in my own investments, too, where there have been moments where I've been like, you know, I could probably figure this out on my own, but maybe it would take 2, 3, 5, 10 times as long. And if there's a shortcut available or a wheel that doesn't need to be reinvented, sometimes it feels good to be like, yeah, let me just. Let me just connect myself to that and maybe skip a lot of pain in the process or skip a lot of headache or a lot of, you know, like, being the rat who's trapped in the maze. I think sometimes it's there's this idea that we need to wait until things are really, really, really bad and we don't know what to do in order to make an investment like this. But I don't think that's the case at all. And so I think you're a really great example of that.
- [19:21]
B
Yeah. I think it's similar to, you know, taking your car in for a tune up or, you know, getting marriage counseling before things get really bad, you know?
- [19:31]
A
Right.
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B
You don't wait until, you know, you're talking about the D word to get counseling. You're like, hey, it's been a few years. Maybe we could, you know, like, grow closer or get better communication. Like, that's how you build a really strong marriage. And I think that's how you build a really strong business.
- [19:51]
A
Yeah, totally. Okay. I want to go to some of the amazing, fun stuff that has happened for you since you rejoined the program. It has been a really cool ride. So I don't know where you want to start to tell the story of what's happened with your Mara. We've been joking in. The program is like our, our celebrity because she's been going viral online. After years of being like, my Instagram won't budge. I can't figure out how to grow. It's felt stagnant for a very long time. So tell your tale. What's happened.
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, so I wish I had saved my post, my original post, but I did save your feedback. So it reminded me of the post. And I had posted something about how I was just really discouraged. This was probably late summer. I was really discouraged with social media and I kept trying to post stuff and nobody was engaging and I was stuck at the same number of followers for like two years. And maybe I should just give up because.
- [20:56]
A
Yeah, you were like, these platforms, I don't think they're a good use of my time.
- [20:59]
B
Like, it's just discouraging and maybe I should try something else with. Yeah, and you had a really great response. Basically, don't pay attention to the numbers. Just keep showing up. You never know who's watching. Lots of things like that. But then, you know, so I kept trying. And you, you had mentioned TikTok, which I had been avoiding. And then I finally joined TikTok and, like, started doing some videos there. And then the new Taylor Swift album came out, which, like, I wasn't a Swiftie. I might be in that category now because of all this, but, you know, I liked some of her albums and. But I was like, okay, new album and then I saw some posts about it that were really critical, which captured my attention. So I listened to the album a little bit more, which it was a little. Little surprising in some ways. And so trying to leave out some of the details there, but basically I thought, you know, I think there's more going on with this album than people think. And I'd been working on how to have more, like, assertive posts with better.
- [22:16]
A
Hooks and, you know, bold messaging.
- [22:19]
B
Yes, the bold messaging. And so I decided not to do what I was going to do post that day and actually post this thing. It was just like three things you need to know about Taylor Swift's new album. As an actual English teacher. So putting my authority in there. Just like one of the things I've been learning.
- [22:35]
A
Yeah.
- [22:36]
B
And then it was just three. Three simple things of like, basically, there's more going on here than you think. It's not all about Travis, which is her fiance, if you don't follow that. And it went viral on TikTok. Like I remember I first posted was like, oh, my Gosh, it has 8,000 views. Well, it now has 450,000.
- [22:58]
A
Wow.
- [22:59]
B
And like 3,000 comments or something. So, like, legitimately viral by any standard. And that was very exciting. Started getting some hate. Hate comments too, which was also a rite of passage, but I was prepared for because of other people talking about haters in the program and you sharing about how you handle them. So it took a little while, but then it also kind of took off on threads, which had been like, nothing. So I think I had a hundred followers maybe on TikTok before this, and, like, fewer than that on threads. And then later, some things started going viral on Instagram as well. So people started asking, like, oh, can you do a whole series on this album? And unpacking it. And at first I thought, oh, no, I'm supposed to be posting about book coaching, which I. Yeah. You know, working hard to do. And then people kept asking and it kept getting bigger and I thought, well, okay, I mean, actually, that sounds kind of fun. I've been a literature teacher for 11 years. Well, 15 years. So I started doing it and people started coming and watching. And then I decided, okay, I should actually make this into a podcast, which I've been. You've been coaching me to start for several months already. Not a Taylor Swift podcast, but it's time. Doing a podcast for now.
- [24:27]
A
Yes.
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B
Pop up podcast, so it could be available in that form. And, you know, just trying to embrace the moment.
- [24:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I gained 4,000 Instagram followers in like two and a half weeks or something, which I was starting at 1300. So it was a very significant increase. You know, still. Still small fry in the. In the scheme of things, but a huge difference for me where I had been stuck there for two years thinking, nobody cares. Nothing I do is of any interest, you know, and then it took engaging with this cultural moment, but still in a way that was authentic to me. Like, I. I couldn't have done that if I hadn't been practicing and preparing that. I was practicing using my voice. I'd gotten coaching in your program to do more talking head videos instead of text posts. Yep. Which is almost all of what I've been doing. I'd also been doing some posts about my offers, so that those were there when people started following me. So not only is it the vanity metric of, oh, I have 5,000 followers now, which is fun, but many of them have just organically, naturally gone to my links and signed up for some of my free downloads, signed up for my email list, and then several people have reached out with interest in my offers. Yes. When I wasn't even posting about the offers at this point because it was all Taylor Swift.
- [26:12]
A
Yeah.
- [26:14]
B
So I signed someone for book coaching off of. I mean, the whole reason she found me was somebody sent her this original Taylor Swift post and she thought, well, that's cool. I wonder what else she does. And clicked on one of my pin posts and saw herself in what I was talking about and said, I need that, and then reached out to set up a console.
- [26:35]
A
So that's absolutely amazing. So you tell us about. You went there and it's exactly what I wanted to ask about too. Of course it's super fun, like you said, to go viral and, like, finally feel like something is getting traction. But you have signed actual clients from all of this happening. So you mentioned one, but there were others too. So tell us about those. Those.
- [26:56]
B
Yeah, so I had the one. That one was Instagram. And then someone else reached out through TikTok. Who.
- [27:03]
A
Which is crazy, by the way. Like, people. I feel like people think like, oh, TikTok. Like, I'm not gonna get anything from that. But, Mara, how much is your book coaching offer? What's your offer?
- [27:12]
B
It's 6,000.
- [27:13]
A
$6,000. There are buy. And so this is what we had talked about in the group. I was like, get on TikTok. And you were like, no. And it's like, there are buyers on TikTok too. So. Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt. Keep going. It just. It Gets me excited.
- [27:26]
B
And I mean, that one was from one post that combined the Taylor Swift stuff with writing, coaching. And I, you know, so I thought I did a pretty good job with that little hook. But you know, it just goes to show, you put in the reps and maybe people aren't noticing them, maybe people are and you just don't know it. But all it takes is one post that hits someone at the right moment. And I mean, she said, omg, this is exactly what I need. I want to set up a call right now. And then. And then I ended up getting a third client in the month of October that I don't think was from Taylor Swift. But still it was a result of again, these reps that I'd been putting in of your saying, talk about your offers, talk about your offers, put them on social media, you don't know if someone's listening. And this one I think was also from social media just before the Taylor Swift era. And you know, we had a call at the beginning of October and then she wants to sign. So, um, something we have mentioned is that you did a 30 day fast track.
- [28:51]
A
Yes.
- [28:53]
B
Like what do you call it? A program, sort of within the program. Yeah. In September that was all about signing one on one clients even though your program is sold out. Group programs. And so I have also done group programs, but this was really great for me because what I've been working on since I came back into the program program into the mastermind is one on one offers, which is editing or book coaching. And I thought this would be pretty easy because I've been getting so many referrals. I never really had to promote this part of my business at all. And so I thought, oh, if I start talking about it just a little bit, then I'll get lots of other people. Well, it turns out it was a lot harder than I thought. First of all, because I didn't know how to talk about the offer. I'd never had to talk about it before. People just said, oh, can you do this? And I said, sure. But then when I had to say what I was doing and why they needed it, that was a whole different ball game. So spent a while refining that messaging, setting up an actual sales page for the book coaching, all those things. And then come September, I thought, okay, great, I'm going to do all the things. It was like a daily action.
- [30:09]
A
Mm.
- [30:10]
B
Focused on signing one to three clients in September. I thought, well, I've totally got this. I'll have two by the end of September. Well, come to the end of September, I did not have any signed clients. I'd had interest, I'd done almost everything, but nobody had signed. And I did feel pretty discouraged, which I shared, since I always share basically everything. So I can get coaching on it.
- [30:38]
A
Yeah.
- [30:39]
B
And I don't remember exactly what your coaching was actually on that, but I think you were pointing out, you know, the progress that I had made and celebrating that and just sort of being patient with the process.
- [30:55]
A
Yeah. I think I had also said, like, give it a little bit more time. It's. It's gonna like the snowball effect is coming.
- [31:01]
B
Yeah. And lo and behold, I've signed three clients in October.
- [31:08]
A
Yeah. Yep. I think it's so cool because I had created this 30 day fast track thinking, like, okay, what is everything I would have somebody do, like you said, one action a day for 30 days. If. If you wanted to sign one to three clients, what are all the things that I'd have you do and Mara did, if not all of those things? Most of those things you did. I think you did all of it or close to it. There was a lot.
- [31:28]
B
I think there was maybe two things that I realized, okay, I never quite did that.
- [31:32]
A
Right. And so pretty cool that here we are, you know, we've finished up October three, three clients. Right. It's like this stuff does work when you work it. And I also just love what you said about. It's something we talk about so much in the Mastermind. We call it launch magic. Whether you're quote unquote, launching or not. I use this term, launch magic as an umbrella term for exactly what Mara described where when you're putting yourself out there and you're doing this kind of work, it can just be one post, one message, one opportunity. I always make the joke too. Like good Morning America could call tomorrow and change everything. Like, you just don't know what's going to happen. And I just think what you have done with this whole Taylor Swift thing is such a masterclass in allowing launch magic to do its thing and to follow the creativity and also follow the fun in order to actually see it pay off. And the other thing I just wanted to touch on really quickly is you alluded to this, but I want to clarify it even more is especially for people, by the way, people are listening to this. And if you haven't watched my replay of my recent class that I did just on Monday called double your launch, I talk about this concept called the launch triangle. And the launch triangle balances the elements of eyeballs, interest and Sales. And what Mara's talking about is like, she is somebody who had all of the elements in place. Right. So when the eyeballs came, we were ready with the pinned post and the links were in the right place and we had our offer refined. Right. And then she also knew what to do to close sales calls. So it was like all of this other work that you had done inside the Mastermind made you ready to, to take advantage of going viral. I talk to people all the time and I think it's a very common belief that like, oh, if I could just go viral, that would immediately fix everything. But I think what part of what your story really shows is, that's great, but you have to also be ready to capture that attention. And like, where are people? Is it very clear where people can go? And then do we have a plan for closing them after they come?
- [33:38]
B
Yeah, that. I mean, it could have been, oh, wow, this is a cool post. And then you go to the page and either you're not sure what is going on on their page, on their feed profile page, or you're just not interested. Like, I've seen that because I've been sort of paying attention. Now my feed gets all these Taylor Swift posts and sometimes I look at them and like, oh, this is like what they do. This is, they do this kind of analysis. This is really interesting. And then other people, you know, that post has 35,000 likes, but then I go to their feed and it's like very, a very, very much a one off.
- [34:17]
A
Yeah.
- [34:18]
B
And that could have been me. That could have still been exciting. But just as you were saying, I had enough in place that people, even with that first post, there wasn't anything else about Taylor Swift, but there were other interesting things going on that I guess were enough for people to start being interested in sticking around and then exploring more. And I don't know if I could have found how to connect Taylor Swift and writing in all these ways because I've been getting coaching on it all along. So I'm just very glad that this happened at a time when I was able to take advantage of it.
- [35:01]
A
Totally. Will you also tell us about your upcoming class that you're teaching again, kind of just riding this wave that you've been able to catch because I think people will think that's really cool.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah. So I've been doing a literary analysis, deep dive into the whole album, the Life of a Showgirl. Like it's a novel. Like, so using my experience teaching literature for so many years. And you know, so I'm doing videos that are podcast episodes. You can check it out if you want. It's called lit112. So lit112, the life of a showgirl. Calling it is pretending. It's like a college class, which in a way, it almost is. It's like a college class without the deadlines and homework. Although I do have writing prompts as one of the ways that I'm sort of tying it with my writing coaching side of things. So if you're a writer, you've got those to check out as well. But now I'm planning to use this to provide fuel for a workshop that's going to be how to Write Like Taylor Swift, where we're going to.
- [36:12]
A
Are we calling it Write Like Taylor? We coached on it this week.
- [36:15]
B
Yes. I think. Why put her last name. Just something like that, right? Like Taylor Swift. Yeah. We'll be exploring different strategies that she uses in her songwriting and how those could be translated to other forms of writing, whether it's memoir or fiction or, you know, if you want to write, poetry can do that too. So I think it'll be a lot of fun. I mean, the whole thing has been a lot of fun, which I'm a very serious person in a lot of ways, and I think that's a big takeaway for me in general from all this is like, I don't know if it's 2025 or just. It's always been the case, but people really want to have fun. They also want to argue.
- [37:01]
A
Yep. Yep. Some good, healthy debate or sometimes not so healthy. Yep.
- [37:05]
B
But they. They want something that's fun. It doesn't have to be meaningless, though, which is.
- [37:10]
A
Right.
- [37:11]
B
I thought it had to be like dancing videos and random stuff that is just not ever going to be me. But it's. It's great to have fun. And so leaning into that has been fun for me.
- [37:27]
A
Yeah, I love it. Mara, please tell everyone you did mention the podcast just now, but maybe tell us the best place where they can go if they want to check out what you had going on. Who are you on Instagram, Your website, all that good stuff.
- [37:41]
B
Sure. Well, my website is maraeller.com and Instagram is Ara Eller. I think you can find all the other things by Googling at this point, at least when I've tried and. Yeah, probably following me on social media. Or you can sign up for my newsletter on my email list on my website as well. Either way, you'll be able to get updates. If you're interested in the bright like Taylor Swift class or just to follow along with the literary analysis on songs.
- [38:17]
A
Amazing. Mara, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me on the podcast. This is really fun.
- [38:22]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me.