← Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Leading in Ways No One Expects | Dustin Tavella, America’s Got Talent Winner
01:01:09
What if the key to your leadership isn’t what you achieve, but how you connect? In this episode, America’s Got Talent winner Dustin Tavella shares why putting people first leads to greater impact—and how to build connections that last.
Loading summary
Transcript124 lines
- [00:00]
Dustin Tavella
I think this guy kind of set me on this path of realizing that I can reach people by just being me and knowing my audience. When I'm writing a script, when I'm performing on a stage, everything is like, who is in this audience? What's, like, a need of theirs? Where do they maybe feel overlooked? What need can we meet? And that doesn't mean, like, these people are homeless and we need to get everybody houses. I mean, like, we might just be in a place where people need encouragement. I always start with, like, who is the audience? And then how can we shape something that will encourage them to believe in themselves more, to take more ownership of their life, to take more ownership of their businesses?
- [00:38]
Leadership Podcast Host
Hey, it's great to have you back for another episode of the Leadership podcast. And what I can guarantee you, and I promise you this is not only are you gonna get better today, but we're gonna have a good time. I have an amazingly interesting guest with me today. If you've ever watched America's Got Talent, you might have seen this guy because he was the winner of America's got talent in 2021. He's been featured on Ellen, NBC, Fox, CMT, NHL, ESPN, ABCDQ, whatever, every station around. He's been on the featured at the Olympics. He is one of the best storytellers I've ever heard in my entire life.
- [01:21]
Dustin Tavella
And.
- [01:21]
Leadership Podcast Host
And Dustin Tavella is using magic. That's right. We got a magician on the podcast. He's using magic to make the world a better place. He's got a show that's been in Branson for quite some time. He is a strong follower of Jesus. He is a very, very good friend of our church. He's a very good friend of you version. He's a very good friend to me. And so welcome aboard, man.
- [01:42]
Dustin Tavella
Thank you so much for having me. That was a very nice introduction.
- [01:46]
Leadership Podcast Host
Well, you have. I mean, your story is ridiculous. And you've performed on some of the biggest stages in the world, and you've won some of the biggest awards in the world, and the story leading up to it is bizarre.
- [02:00]
Dustin Tavella
Right.
- [02:02]
Leadership Podcast Host
And so can you tell me a little bit about the story behind the story of how you got started in this road?
- [02:08]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the short version is, you know, when I was young, my whole family was a mess. My parents marriage was in shambles. They're, you know, trying to get their lives back on track. They had me and my sister. My parents met on a. On a. On a drug run. My dad was a drug dealer. And what was, what was crazy was that my parents, you know, as they were trying to get better, at one point my dad was like, trying to get better. My mom's doing crazy stuff, my mom's trying to get better, and then my dad's doing crazy stuff. And at one point we started going to this church and their whole first part of their marriage was, you know, drugs, alcohol and affairs and all these things. And my mom was having an affair. My dad didn't know with who. He's talking to the pastor about what to do about this. And then it turns out the pastor was the one that my mom was having the affair with and. Oh, but, but, but here's the thing. I mean, thank you for saying sorry. But the good thing though too is that I feel like this was something that was used in my life to start to understand, like the behavior of people. You know, there's a lot of people who carry themselves with hurt from the past, with church hurt, with, you know, hurts from their parents or whatever. And this season of my life, I think really showed me how much people are able to overcome and life can be transformed because we had two people who stepped into my parents lives, them get sober and back on their feet, help restore their marriage, all this stuff.
- [03:20]
Leadership Podcast Host
How old were you?
- [03:21]
Dustin Tavella
And I was like around 9 years old at this time. Yeah. And then, you know, my parents, their marriage gets restored. Now my parents are like, you know, marriage counselors and they've been in marriage ministries and they've seen so many other marriages restored because of the pain and what they've walked through. Right. The disappointment and the infidelity that they walk through. And that couple that helped my parents out, they were people who, they didn't have an education or background in, you know, I don't know, like counseling people. They weren't, they didn't have degrees, they didn't come from a non profit. They were just two humans who were like, we should make an impact because we can see something more than what everybody else sees. When everyone else sees this couple whose marriage is in shambles, who's doing drugs and doing stupid stuff. These people were like, there's hope here. And I think the fact that they had eyes to see that is what really set me on this path of like, that's what I want to do in my life is I want to have eyes to see hope. And I saw what they can do. They transformed our family for generations by simply having eyes to see more than what everybody else saw. And so I think that was really the beginning of my journey of like, man, I want to take what I have and I want to do what they did for my family. I want to do that for other people. And then from there, you know, like any little kid I loved magic, got a magic kid and was learning to do that, learned to twist balloons at one point, went to this festival. This guy was twisting balloons and he was selling VHS tapes how to twist balloons. And then there was this ministry that had come and spoke at this new church we started going to. And he asked if anybody wanted to help with like the inner city kids. And I raised my hand. He was talking to the adults, but I was like, that sounds fun. And then he took me serious, though. You know, I'm like this nine year old kid that's like, I want to help. And so he asked me what I loved. I told him I learned to twist balloons, I do magic. He's like, what if you dress up like a clown and perform for the other kids your age? And, you know, I think it would be cool for them to see like one of their peers, someone their age, that comes from a rocky situation, using their gifts to be a blessing to other people. And I think that was also very foundational for me. It was just like this dude, he took me serious. I dressed up like a clown. I performed for these other kids.
- [05:19]
Leadership Podcast Host
It was horrible.
- [05:21]
Dustin Tavella
But there was something that was sparked there that I realized. It was like this thing of, like, man, I can use what I have to just give and to serve and to serve the people I'm in front of. Because this is a big thing, I think moving into just some of the leadership stuff, which we can get to later. But for me, that's such a huge part of realizing, like, who are the people that I'm in front of. I can give myself, I can figure out what I have that relates and connects to who these people are and what their needs are, and then use my gifts to best serve that specific thing in their life. And of course, I'm nine years old. I'm not thinking like this, but I think this guy kind of set me on this path of realizing that I can reach people by just being me and knowing my audience.
- [06:00]
Leadership Podcast Host
I just want to even pause there and say to, like, people that might have a nine year old that you. A lot of times we think we got to wait until they're older to really start trying to shape the greatness in them. And it kind of helps to see that, you know, a very invested leader or person, adult in a kid's life can make a big difference. I wanna fast forward and it's an amazing story that, you know, what your family went through and then to see kind of the healing and the recovery. And then you told me a little bit before, but I'd love for you to share with our audience. A show came around, America's Got Talent, and you were somewhere in the orbit of it. Tell me how you even qualified and tell us that journey.
- [06:40]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Yeah. So I had stopped doing magic when I was, like, 13 then because, you know, it wasn't cool to dress up like a clown anym. And so I just stopped and never looked back. I was really passionate about music and after high school was doing music stuff and loved every second of it. But I just got to a point where I just missed that connection. I missed that connective thing. And my wife and I had started doing some stuff with the homeless in Los Angeles, working with them. And it was just really cool to feel like we were doing something and we were seeing lives changed, but I was missing a bit of that creative element. And so through that, ended up meeting this dude who was a realtor, but he was a magician on the side. And we were having coffee one day and he just busts out like, a deck of cards and some coins in this coffee shop. And I look around, all of a sudden there's all these people gathered around, different ages, different skin colors, different, like, people who normally wouldn't be all engaging together, strangers engaging together, all because of, like, a deck of cards. And it was like a bomb went off in my heart. So I'm like, this is crazy. This. Like, it didn't take a platform. It didn't take anything. This dude just showed up with some stuff. And so I was like, I think I'm going to be a magician now. Again, just, you know, as an adult. We were three years into marriage. My wife didn't know anything about me doing magic.
- [07:55]
Leadership Podcast Host
I bet she was excited to hear that.
- [07:56]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, that's what I say. Yeah. So it's like, that's how you know.
- [07:59]
Leadership Podcast Host
I'm going to be a magician. Honey, I didn't tell you that three years ago when you got married.
- [08:02]
Dustin Tavella
I always say, you know, I heard someone say something similar to this before, but as a grown man being like, I'm gonna be a magician now, I feel like I might as well been coming out and telling my parents, like, I'm gonna be a pirate. Right? Like, it's just. But thankfully, my wife is crazy and she's like, that sounds awesome. And I'm like, Oh, I thought this was gonna be more of a discussion, but I guess I'm a magician. And so I had my. My parents, like, shipped out all my old magic tricks. You know, my mom had all these tricks in a box, and we didn't have a ton of money at the time. And I bought two decks of cards because I had this idea I needed two of the same card. And what was wild was that my wife went on a run one day and she just came back and she was like, I don't know what it is, but I feel like you're gonna win America's Got Talent, like, doing magic. And I was like, it's been two weeks, so I don't know if that's a thing that happens. Not very good yet, but. Yeah, but. So I had a friend I was catching up with, and she was an actress from when I was doing music stuff. And we were talking and she's asked me what I've been doing, and she had just done a movie with Tyra Banks. Tyra Banks was hosting America's Got Talent at the time. And I was like, oh, it's crazy. My wife was just talking about America's Got Talent, and she was like, oh, are you trying to get on there? Are you going to be singing or what are you going to be doing? Because she knew me as an artist, as a. As a singer and songwriter and producer and stuff. And I was like, no, I'm going to do magic tricks. She's like, you knew magic tricks on America's Got Talent? I was like, yeah, I know it sounds weird. And she was like, well, you should. You should send me some stuff. I'll show it to Tyra and see if she likes. I'm having lunch with her in a couple days. I'm like, yeah, cool. And I didn't have anything. I just started doing magic. So I got some of my friends, gathered them together, and. And there was this. We were working with, like, this ministry at that time, and there was an auditorium and stuff. And we all went. It was middle of the night. Got some of my friends. And I always say, you know, I don't want to say that we broke into the building, but someone left the door unlocked. And so we went in, we went onto the stage, we figured how to turn the lights on, and we filmed just a bunch of fake magic tricks, man. Like I said, I was like, I'm gonna give you this card. And you just be like, oh, just freak out and act like that's. You know, I think that I did Something. So we did that, and then I edited it with a bunch of other events, other footage on YouTube of, like, audience shots. So, like, I'll be like, is this your card? And my friend would be like, o. And then an audience full of people, like, what, losing their minds. And this is what I sent to Tyra Banks as my.
- [10:11]
Leadership Podcast Host
So you totally and completely faked it?
- [10:13]
Dustin Tavella
Oh, 100%. And in my mind, that was kind of a bit of the skill, right? It's how do you be bad at something and still succeed at it? I don't know. Maybe that is horrible thinking, but we sent this to her, and she was like, this is cool. They want to meet you. And I was like, well, now I have to actually know how to do something for the producers. So I put a thing together, failed miserably because I wasn't good, right? It's been, like, three weeks now that I've been doing magic, but they told me no for that season. Year goes by, and I was working on stuff and really realizing that within magic performance, I might not have been excellent at doing magic, but the thing that I loved was connecting with people. And as I continued to go back and make that the center of what we were doing, I felt like we were. We were, like, getting somewhere in the performances, and not because people were like, wow, that was a great magic trick. But people afterwards would be like, dude, that was crazy. That really, like, touched me. I feel inspired, I feel seen, I feel heard because of the way you were communicating. And it was because we weren't making the magic more important. We were making the people important. So after this year, after a year, you know, I practiced for a year, I went back, and I'm full of confidence now. And apparently, I was still horrible because AGT was like, nope for a second time. And then another year goes by, and we just really gave everything we had to just figuring out what was this thing that was happening, because it started off of being excited about connecting with people, and then that was just at the core of all of it. And so I then went back for the third time to audition, and that was the year that we ended up getting on. And it was a. It was a crazy thing, because on America's Got Talent, there's been so many magicians, incredibly talented people. But the thing we kept going back to was, like, I know that I need to perform and, like, wow people with magic tricks, but, like, for me, it just needs to start with the narrative of just telling authentic stories. And ended up winning. Never expected to win, and you know, it's been amazing since then to really keep that at the core of what we do is seeing people and starting with that.
- [12:11]
Leadership Podcast Host
So interestingly that I wasn't a. I didn't watch a lot of America's Got Talent. My kids did. And so during that year you're on. I actually caught by random, you know, I may not have seen any the year before, the year after, but I caught you on it a couple times and. And then I met you years later and it was so interesting. It seemed to me like magic was just the vehicle for you to serve people. Yeah, it was almost like. It's like. And then when I watched you perform live for the first time, your magic was really good, but it almost got in the way of everything else that you wanted to say to serve people. And then I couldn't with the first time that we met a mutual friend met you, brought you to the church and we met in a hallway. And genuinely within 30 seconds, I'm like, I like this guy. I like him a lot. It's cool. And so I wanna hear a little bit about the people part of what you do, because you do, if anyone watches you perform, be impressed by the magic. Watch beyond the magic is what I would say. Just watch beyond the magic for the greatness that isn't just the trick. Talk to me. Your care for people, where'd that come from?
- [13:35]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, I think really that comes from just going all the way back to my childhood of realizing that ordinary people can do extraordinary things in the lives of other people. Like this couple that came into my parents lives. There was nothing special about them other than they cared and they said we can show up. And I think one of the biggest ways that we love encouraging people is that if you're able to just see a person, you don't have to have all the education in the world. What humans love is connection. We thrive off of that. Right. And I've been in some. I mean, we say this all the time with like restaurants and stuff. There's a restaurant that we love and the food is not the best food I've ever had, but like the people there, the servers, the environment, we go in there and we feel important, we feel seen, and we keep going back because we're hungry. But what we're more hungry for is the community. More hungry than just a good meal. And we go in and it's still good food, but it's not like, isn't that interesting.
- [14:32]
Leadership Podcast Host
And you could go to a place that has great food and love the Food and maybe not even want to come back.
- [14:38]
Dustin Tavella
Yes, exactly. And this is the thing. Like, when we have people come into town, we take them there to that place, because we know that they're going to experience that same thing of being seen. And I think as that's become more real in my life, it becomes the basis of everything I do. When I'm writing a script, when I'm performing on a stage, everything is like, who is in this audience? What's, like, a need of theirs? Where do they maybe feel overlooked? So, for example, if it's with a bunch of young people who maybe don't feel taken serious as leaders, like, how do we call those things out? Because for me, that was a big thing. I was nine years old, and this guy's like, dude, I was talking to the adults about who wanted to help, but you raised your hand. So, like, what are you good at? And how can I utilize your skill set? What do you love? What do you do? And then he made that connection between, you know what? I think these kids could connect with you because you come from also a broken background. Maybe if, like, you're vulnerable, vulnerable about where you came from. Use your gifts to be in front of them. They can see you trying, even if you're not good at it. Like, they just see you showing up. And again, that's why I say that changed everything for me, because it's where. That's the angle that we come from, every space that we step into.
- [15:41]
Leadership Podcast Host
So one of the things I love about just having the platform, this podcast, is that I get to choose fascinating people to bring on. I also, like, sometimes people push back, and there might be somebody going, like, why would I listen to a magician to learn about leadership? What I would say kind of is as your advocate, because you're leading people all the time. I mean, like, literally, in some ways, you're misleading them to look in a different place and then to entertain them. And you're telling stories and you're creating content that moves people in a way. And then when you win something, and then you go create a show and have to do, you know, like, literally now you've got a brand, you got a whole team of people that are working together, and so you are leading. There's two parts of the leadership that you do that I want to focus in on. One is kind of the creative process, and then two is the communication process. Because as leaders, we're creating. We're creating products, we're creating code, we're creating a ministry that adds value and Then we all communicate. And those two things you're great at. Tell me if I'm exaggerating, but if I remember the story correctly, you kind of did, like, a big stage trick for week number one, and you got. They said, okay, you can go on. And then you went backstage and go, we gotta come up with something new. Is that true? And kind of you were creating the illusions in the story pretty much week.
- [17:06]
Dustin Tavella
To week as we went. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:07]
Leadership Podcast Host
Literally making up as you go.
- [17:08]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- [17:09]
Leadership Podcast Host
So number one, that's encouraging to know. You can be that dumb and crazy and pull it off naive and creative. And then when you're creating, what do you start with? The end in mind? Does the story drive the illusion? Does the illusion drive the story? How does it start?
- [17:28]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. So for me, again, and I cannot say this enough, I always go back to people. It's like, what need can we meet? And that doesn't mean, like, these people are homeless and we need to get everybody houses. I mean, like, we might just be in a place where people need encouragement. Right. We might step into a place where maybe they need some encouragement. But also they're a bunch of more businessmen or they're farmers or they're whatever. I think I always start. Start with, like, who is the audience? And then how can we shape something that will encourage them to believe in themselves more, to take more ownership of their life, to take more ownership of their businesses? Because we'll do corporate stuff, we do high school stuff, we do college stuff, we do church stuff. And all these audiences are very different.
- [18:09]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yeah. That's why you won. Right.
- [18:13]
Dustin Tavella
For real.
- [18:13]
Leadership Podcast Host
That's why you won. Because there are a lot of good magicians.
- [18:18]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [18:18]
Leadership Podcast Host
And that you connected with people.
- [18:19]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [18:20]
Leadership Podcast Host
Would you agree? Disagree?
- [18:21]
Dustin Tavella
No, I would agree. And I think that that's why, like, there was people in the magic community when I won who were, like, so mad because they're like, where did this guy come from? He's never been to a magic convention before. Like. But the thing is, is, like, I know that I didn't win as a magician, and this is what I always try and tell people is like, some people are like, well, I couldn't win agt. Right. But it's like, you don't have to. You can connect with people and prioritize that and then take what you're good at, fill in the blank. Do you love cooking? Do you own a restaurant? Are you, like, what is the thing that you do? And how do you. How do you kind of make connection? The center of that.
- [18:53]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yes. And again, I want to. And forgive me for drilling this in, but I want our community to hear this. Magic is the vehicle, but the talent is something else. Yeah, it really is.
- [19:02]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Leadership Podcast Host
And the talent, because you would find. You would find a way to be successful if you couldn't do magic, that would not rob you of your gift.
- [19:08]
Dustin Tavella
Right.
- [19:09]
Leadership Podcast Host
That would just. You just change vehicles, you'd get in a different car, and you still go somewhere.
- [19:13]
Dustin Tavella
Yes.
- [19:13]
Leadership Podcast Host
And so I want people to hear that, because there's something in all of us that, you know. Like, for example, you know, I'm leading a church. If you took this away and said, you can't be a pastor of a church anymore, I'd find a way to make a difference because it's not just the vehicle, but it's the heart behind it. And so I want you to talk a little bit about that. What do you do with that? You're someone out there right now, they're listening and they're going, like, I really do wanna make a difference, but I don't know what my vehicle is. I don't know how to use it. What advice would you have for them?
- [19:41]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, I would say. I always say just start small and recognizing needs. Because if you go right to, like, if you're trying to serve people and recognize needs just for yourself, I think it removes a bit of the authenticity, which is gonna remove a bit of the success of it. Because I think as humans and culture.
- [20:04]
Leadership Podcast Host
Is like celebrating that today. Meaning that's like insta fluence is like, I want to serve you all in my name.
- [20:11]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, yeah, for sure. People tending to care about global issues just because it's trending. And I think that as humans and what I've realized a lot within. Because of the magic, because of the psychology involved in magic, there are certain ways to connect with people, certain things that get people to maybe think a certain way or react a certain way.
- [20:27]
Leadership Podcast Host
And what I've realized, for example, what makes you.
- [20:30]
Dustin Tavella
Well, so I would say, like, some magicians will say, like, oh, I'm gonna read your body language to know if you're lying or not. I don't think it's that. More of the psychology behind this is how much time do I take to reveal that I knew the card that you picked? Or how do I reveal it? How soon do I. Do I do it quick? Does that make it more impossible? Do I wait a long time? Do I make it more personal? Do I use initials? Like, it's. It's the psychology of. And I Always use the example of David Blaine. Right. David Blaine came out doing magic tricks that a lot of magicians had been doing for years. But when David Blaine would do it, you have people crying, you have people freaking out, losing their minds, screaming, running. Yes, screaming, running. Because he took time to understand what makes people react. Right. He's doing the same magic tricks. You pick a card, you put it in the middle, your card's on top. This has existed forever. I don't know a magician that doesn't do that trick. But when David Blaine does it, the reactions are different because he understands the psychology of his demeanor, the tension that he builds, which, again, in itself is a story. Right? You're building tension and then the release of the reveal of the thing. And so I think understanding the psychology of stuff, what I've realized is that people also can tell when you're being authentic and when you're not. I think this is why people normally don't connect with magicians in an authentic way. They show up and they're entertained because you feel like the guy's already lying to you. Right. I feel like, as humans, we can feel when someone's not being honest. We can feel when somebody's being inauthentic. And so, you know, applying this now to a leader in any position, if you're in a place pretending to care about people, you might be reciting all the right words, you might be saying, like, you might be doing everything that every great leader has done before you. But if you aren't actually caring, if you aren't actually seeing those people, if your agenda is different, if you're telling them that you care and you don't, I think people feel that. And so I think that the greatest way to lead in this way is for it to be authentic, which I think starts with your neighbor. Most people listening to this might not even know their neighbor's names, let alone know their needs.
- [22:25]
Leadership Podcast Host
Okay, there's so much brilliance here. You're frustrating me because I got, like, five questions that I want to ask you, not in one little paragraph. So I want to go. I'm going to come back to authenticity because. Because it's so important. But you said something earlier. I want you to translate this from magic, from presentation, to someone who's pitching an idea at work. And so they've got, you know, they've got a project, they've got an idea, they got a mission, they want to start something. And you're talking about timing, you're talking about emotions, you're talking about reveal. Tell Me, how I'm walking into a meeting with eight people and I'm pitching an idea. Coach me. What do I do to maximize all of what you said?
- [23:03]
Dustin Tavella
Right? So the first part of this, and I'm not saying to go in lying or something, but I go back to that video that I faked on America's Got Talent, right? I wasn't presenting to them the best magic ever. There was something that was interesting to them about me as a. As a person. And that's why I say part of the skill in sending this fake audition video was more just understanding what will these people connect with. So I think part of going in first starts with believing in what you're doing and why you believe in that thing and why it's important. And I think that when you can go in as a person who cares, even if your idea is, like, mediocre, I think if what you're putting together is genuinely from a place of, like, man, this person has an interest in not only creating change in this business, in this community, and, you know, whatever that thing is, but this person is willing to do the work. This person is willing to show up and do it. I think that speaks volumes because let's say your idea is not that great. They can give you true, constructive criticism and say, hey, you know what? This might work if you do this, this, this, they can give you real criticism because they know you're going to go back, work on that thing and come back with a better version of it.
- [24:15]
Leadership Podcast Host
So they're not just buying into the idea, but they're buying into you.
- [24:18]
Dustin Tavella
Yes.
- [24:19]
Leadership Podcast Host
And I actually agree with you that a lot of times, just a really good leader that cares with a decent idea can get a lot more done than someone that doesn't really care. That's inauthentic. That has a great idea, it's gotta be a decent idea. If it's a horrible idea, it's a horrible idea. But the difference between, let's say an idea, that's a level 8 between 8 and 10 versus 1, that's 9.5. The right person with an 8 can go a long way. The wrong person with a great idea doesn't go as far.
- [24:47]
Dustin Tavella
And I just thought of this, too. So one of my best friends in the world, his name's Brent Braun, he's a magic creator. He creates magic for a bunch of different magicians for agt, for Fool Us. You know, Penn and Teller. Fool Us. And what I. I actually met him after my first audition on America's Got Talent. And I Was like, fangirling over this dude. I'm like, this is the guy. He makes magic for everybody. And. And I so desperately wanted to work with him. And we exchanged information. I remember the first phone call I had with him. He was like, hey, man, listen, if you have an idea, write it down. And he said, do this. He said, put it together in a script. Put the prop ideas. Basically, he gave me all this, like, tedious stuff, stupid work to be doing. And literally, as soon as I hopped the phone, I put everything together. I emailed it to him within, like, you know, as fast as I possibly could. And he called me back the next day. He was like, look, man. He was like, I didn't really need you to do that, but I just wanted to know how much you wanted this, if you were willing to do it. Because some people, they're hungry to, like, be the guy on the stage, to be the guy with the platform, but they're not willing to actually do the work for it. And he was like, I know that you're someone that if I say, hey, you know what? This is why this doesn't work. You're not gonna be offended. You're gonna go and actually, you're gonna make the thing work. If I tell you this isn't connecting with these people for this reason, you're not gonna storm off and throw some hissy fit. Cause you think that your idea was the best, but you're actually gonna listen to feedback to create something that connects in a way that is. That is impactful. And that moment stood out to me because, again, it goes back to what you were saying. He was looking less for what I was creating and more of what I was willing to do and how committed I was to seeing this thing through. And I think if you step into a place thinking you have all of the right ideas, people can't tell you otherwise, right? Someone's gonna be like, this doesn't work for this. And then you're like, oh, that guy's wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about. And you're never gonna be willing to implement what everyone else sees. And if you're there to serve everyone else, you should probably be listening to them, right? You should probably be willing to say, they didn't think what I did landed. Why didn't they think that? Because for some reason, what made sense in my mind didn't make sense to all these other people. And all these other people are the ones I'm. I'm trying to connect with. So I should probably listen to what they have to say.
- [26:52]
Leadership Podcast Host
There's so. There's so much there. So let's say you're looking to hire somebody, or let's say you're wanting to get hired. That if you're the person who wanted to get hired, there are some things you can do that are just number one, they're. They're. You're going above and beyond.
- [27:07]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [27:07]
Leadership Podcast Host
And you're willing to do. You're doing. You're. You're not just learning about the company, but you're learning about the people that are going to interview you. But what if you learn about their family members, not in a creepy way, but in a way that you genuinely care, and you can ask them about it or find out what their hobbies are and you come prepared like that. And then the next level is when you do create something and they give you feedback or you don't get the job, you don't go away. I hate those people. But you get better and you come back. And that's a quality that when you see it, it stands out. And it's just the willingness to do something. For example, when I saw you do magic, I thought of five different other things I wanted to help you. Meaning, like just. I'm going like, this is a guy that has so many other gears in him, literally. And I did. I said, I want to meet with you. And like, have you ever considered. And I listed a couple of other things, one of which you're going to do for me, which is preach, which is whoever has a magic guy preached, but you're going to do it because I saw it in you. Then you came in here two days early to our place to prep over and over and over again, have everything just exactly right, which is the extra something special that not everybody has. Tell me a little bit about what are some things a leader could do that would be out of the norm, that would not only set them apart for others to go, oh, they're special, but also would make them special.
- [28:41]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I'll start with just relating it to the A stage metaphor. So for me, I always think of that as being the things I do off the stage. Right. So the things when the things that.
- [28:52]
Leadership Podcast Host
No one sees that bring the results everybody wants. Exactly. Go.
- [28:55]
Dustin Tavella
Exactly. Yep. So for me, it's just basically on the stage means when people are looking, when people are watching, but being that off the stage. So one of the little things. This sounds silly, but when I go into a place, if I see some trash on the Floor or something. I pick it up, I throw it away. And this actually came from a thought before, because we were living in an apartment complex where we were, like, really wanting to make impact in this place that we lived. And someone had left, like, a slushie. It was just, like, on the elevator in the corner, just, you know, someone had just basically drank half of their slushy and threw it in the elevator and left. And I saw. And I got so mad, and I went to walk out of the elevator, and I thought, you know what? If this is a place I want to impact, that means this has to be a place that I own. And if this was my house, if this was my. If I. If I owned this place and I saw that slushy thing there, I would clean it up. So it came from this idea of, like, I can't have an impact on a place that I don't take ownership of. And so that was just one of those little things. Everywhere I went, I started picking up trash places and really trying to be intentional with small moments that people don't see. And what's funny is that I actually did a job. This was, like, semi recently, I did a job where I met the guy who hired me. And afterwards, he was like, you know what? I wasn't sure. And this is, like, a weird story, but this is a true sort of thing that happened. He was like. He was at another event, and he was, like, in the bathroom. He was in the stall. And I went into the bathroom. I was using the bathroom, too. And then he was like, I was at that event. I was in the stall. You were in the bathroom. I watched you clean something up, and then there was someone else in there, and I heard you encouraging that guy. You took time. You had other stuff in your room, but you took time in the bathroom to encourage a person. This guy ends up hiring me, then for a job later because of a thing that I didn't even realize happened. But it was one of those moments where it happened because of that thing being intentional, when I didn't know there was a guy, you know, watching me through the crack of the stall. You know, just, like, watching.
- [30:45]
Leadership Podcast Host
This is a little bit odd.
- [30:46]
Dustin Tavella
It's odd. It is. But. But this is. What I'm saying is, like, you have no idea what those odd moments could produce in your life. And it might not be that you might not get hired from a guy who's, you know, in the bathroom, but what that will do is it will create something in your character that when you step into that place, with that idea, with that pitch. If you're applying for a job, whatever that thing is, you go in with the mentality of, I need to take ownership of this place. And again, that's a thing that people feel. You can't fake that.
- [31:10]
Leadership Podcast Host
That's so good. And these are quality. That's why you would be successful in whatever field. It's the intangibles or even the tangibles, meaning the. And the quote, I wrote this down, I mean, this is so brilliant, is if this is a place I want to impact, is a place I need to own. And that's one of the biggest things that we do as leaders, is we don't want people being managers or doers. We want them being owners. And there's a big difference between the way an employee thinks, the way an owner thinks. An employee thinks, how does this benefit me? And owner thinks, how did this benefit others? Or how does this benefit the organization? What's in it for me versus what's in it? Do I spend money on certain things? No. An owner invests. And it's a different mindset. So that's a very powerful quote. And I need to loop back. I would be unfair to our audience if I didn't go back to the idea of authenticity you were talking about earlier, because, you know, we talk about that a lot. And I'll say people would rather follow a leader that's always real than one that's always right. And it's just super true. It's always been true. I'd say it's probably more true today than ever before. And what's becoming an airbrushed AI, you know, generate content. I think authenticity is going to be not just necessary. It's going to be the only thing that connects with people. Help me understand why I met you and believed in you and why I see you on a stage and believe in you. When I could see another magician or comedian or preacher or salesperson or CEO, and not necessarily. What are the qualities that communicate genuine authenticity? And how can I do that better?
- [32:47]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Yeah. So I think authenticity, it's kind of fun even circling back to the picking up the trash thing, Right. I think that there is something about if there's a thing that you want to accomplish, and this was a thing that I realized when I first started wanting to do the magic, right? Because I had these great ideas of things I wanted to do on America's Got Talent, and I wanted to make an impact with this stuff. And when I didn't get on agt, the first year, I was disappointed when I didn't get on. The second year, I was even more disappointed. And I remember one day, I just felt like, this question. I couldn't sleep at night. It kept going on and on in my head. I was so mad because I was like, I want to use this to make an impact on lives. This is my gift, what I want to do. And. And I felt this. Like, I just couldn't kick this thought of, like, if I want to make an impact with what I have, why am I not doing it now? Why do I need AGT to endorse this? Why do I need a platform to do this? And so in that same apartment complex, actually, there was a guy that lived in the building. He was, you know, struggling with some addiction, had some things going on in his life. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go down. I'm going to do a magic trick for this one guy every day. This is my New Year's resolution. Every day that he's in the office. So five days a week when he's at work, I'm gonna go down at some point, just gonna do a magic trick for this guy. And it sounded fun in the beginning, but then, you know, you get to, like, day, you know, 15, and I'm like, I don't think I know 16 magic tricks. What am I gonna do tomorrow? But it was pushing me to keep using my gift on a small scale for one person. And at the end of that year, you know, this guy, he gets sober, and he turns his life around. There's a bunch of change that happened. It was really because of the connection that was starting between us, the friendship that was built. And then I went on after that to win America's Got Talent. And. And this is the thing I still share to this day. At the end of that, I'm like, man, I won this huge competition. But I also saw this guy's life changed because of this thing. And so many more people would celebrate what I did on the stage, and it was great, winning America's Got Talent. But some of those people, they saw it and they were inspired. And then they scrolled through all their other content on the Internet. They watched all their other channels on their tv. My message became diluted as their minds became filled with so many other things over time. But really celebrating what took a long time that no one would ever see, that didn't get me any awards. I think authenticity comes from that. Doing that caused me to truly value it. And because I truly came to value it. It became an authentic part of now who I am. And so I would say, you know, for someone that's like, how do I even become authentic? Because I think you have to be honest with yourself. There's some people listening right now. And even for me, sometimes you're like, well, I actually don't care. Like, I have a hard time sometimes caring for people. I step into places where I'm like, these are people I don't really connect with. But I think when you start implementing these practices into your life, you almost like, it's a new kind of thinking. It's not normal in our culture to put someone else above you, to put someone else's interests above your own needs. But as you start practicing it, it becomes part of who you are. And that's when the authenticity starts. You can't fake authenticity, you know, to.
- [35:47]
Leadership Podcast Host
Have success without the story wouldn't be as meaningful. It'd be empty. And that's what a lot of people have. You could have won and not ever cared for people, and you'd be empty real fast.
- [36:01]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [36:02]
Leadership Podcast Host
I want to talk to you about the communication gift, because you genuinely have a gift. Some of it may be natural that you're, you know, but a lot of it's developed. Talk to me about how you get better as a communicator.
- [36:17]
Dustin Tavella
So one of the things just going, you know, and not to get, like, overly churchy mode or something, but I think one of the best examples of this is Jesus and the way that he communicated when he was on earth. Right. Like, you see Jesus communicating in so many different story styles. There was times where he went in and he was being very blunt and pretty offensive. Right. And then there's times when he's being very general, very vague, and. And I think we see this a lot in churches not working, because some churches are trying to just be blunt and trying to just be one communication style. And then you see other people who are trying to water stuff down so much that people step in and they're like, I feel like this was more of a talent show than a church service. Right. But I think what Jesus did so excellently was he knew his audience when he was telling a story. And Jesus was a storyteller. He was a communicator. There's times he goes in, and again, he's being very direct and very specific. Then there's times and he goes in and he looks and he's like, okay, I got a bunch of farmers here. These people own land. They understand this. So he Says, hey, guys, if you throw seed on this soil, it'll grow. If you throw it here, it won't grow. He's like, all right, see you later. And the disciples are like, wait, was that supposed to be a message? Like, what? But Jesus knew his audience. He knew where they were at. He knew their education level. He knew their profession. And he took that into account. And this is why Jesus, communication style, it was always the same Jesus, he always had the same intention of encouraging and empowering people, lifting people up, seeing those who felt overlooked. But the way he told those stories changed because he knew where people were at. He knew what their occupations were. He knew what they were interested in. And that takes getting over yourself. So it's weird to think, like, when I'm putting a story together, I need to first squash my pride and say, it doesn't matter what I like, because if it's for them, then I need to just think of what they like. And there's times where, like, super important. It's so important.
- [38:05]
Leadership Podcast Host
Like, communicators all the time will say, how, you know, how'd it go? Well, I liked it. Like, it really doesn't matter if you liked it or not.
- [38:10]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [38:11]
Leadership Podcast Host
Was it effective? I know somebody else. Yeah.
- [38:13]
Dustin Tavella
And I. And, you know, this is the thing I learned, too, even doing stuff within the church, because I used to lead worship a ton. And we would go into a place, maybe we were leading worship for a church of, like, older people. And you see this a lot in, like, young worship. They want to play their new, young, cool songs and all these things, and then they lead this worship service, and no one's connecting, and they're so mad at everyone else. And it's like. But you just came in, like, this is a demographic of people who maybe don't like that music. And I get that you want to make a statement by playing the loud cool, but, like. But then that's not you serving them. You're wanting them to like what you like. And if your job is to step in and serve them, then, like, you need to start with understanding who they are. And you might need to choose some songs that aren't your favorite, but you know it's gonna best serve them. And I think so from a storytelling aspect, from a creating aspect, I have to say, who are the people? What are their needs? What do they connect with? And then how do I intertwine that into still being authentic to who I am?
- [39:07]
Leadership Podcast Host
So what do you do when you feel. Certainly there have been times where you feel insecure you feel inadequate. So, you know, let's say, I mean, people can't see what you look like right now if they're listening. But you got your hat on backwards, you've got two earrings in. You look, you look like probably pretty cool. But let's, you know, but let's say you go into an environment now you got a bunch of 45 year old guys in business suits, and that's not you. How do you connect with them?
- [39:34]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [39:35]
Leadership Podcast Host
If you feel like you're not them, how do you work through your insecurity?
- [39:38]
Dustin Tavella
Yep. And this is a position I found myself in many times as we've done corporate stuff. And it's intimidating. I mean, I remember I did a thing for Skechers, right? Skechers shoes. They, they're like the number three, I think, number three in the world, two in the country. Skechers just grew into this massive business seemingly overnight. Right. And all these people who are so great with business and all this stuff. But what I realized is like, at the core, there is a part of everybody that is human. And when you can take what's human about you and what's human about someone else and find that connection point, it's beautiful. So when I step into a space that is, is full of these business people who just think different than me, like you said, they're in suits, they're in all these things. I always try and get back to the basics of like, what does it mean to be human? What do these people like? People like being encouraged, right? They like feeling empowered to know that they can make an impact, they can do something important. What do they maybe need to hear that they're not normally. That they wouldn't normally be used to hearing? But how can I communicate that in a way that gets their guard down? So for me, you know, to share stories of personal failures that might connect with failures that they can also relate to. Right. Of having dreams that maybe didn't work out at first, but continuing to do that thing. And someone said this to my wife before that I try and carry with. She said what's most personal is what's most universal. And I think sometimes we try and go in with these very general and vague messages that makes it hard to connect. But when I can share a personal story of who I am and a thing that I overcame, it's weird how that thing that feels more specific and more personal actually ends up connecting more with the people who seem like they're less like me. And I think I start with that too, is how Do I just be vulnerable in this space? I'm here to be, again, authentic. I'm here to connect in a way that's gonna make them be like, okay, I don't have to have my guard up because he doesn't have his guard up. And then all of a sudden, I found myself connecting with people that maybe normally wouldn't even give me the time of day, because they're like, you don't look how I look. You don't dress how I dress. And so I think I like to do that, too. I think, again, I don't care how tough you are. I don't care how successful you are. I don't care how nice your suit is. People, as humans, like, we love connection. We need it. We thrive off of it, for sure.
- [41:51]
Leadership Podcast Host
But what's personal is universal. I like that. And everybody. Everybody wants to be liked. Everybody wants to matter. And so that I always kind of try to tell myself the four words that. That I want them to feel is like, I notice and you matter. Like, I noticed this about you, and you matter. And that's. Doesn't matter where you're from, how old you are, how cocky you are, what you've done, what you've done, but you want to be noticed. You want to matter. And I think that you're saying you communicate that. What's interesting is, how do you define success? You were successful when you were doing card tricks for the one guy, and so that's private success. And then you had public success. It wasn't overnight. You worked for several years to get there, and then in one year, it did happen. Pretty big, pretty fast. Everybody would kind of say, hey, I like that. I want that. That's kind of cool. What's the downside of success?
- [42:42]
Dustin Tavella
I think the downside of success is definitely from, like, an emotional, personal level, I think expectation, right? Because what I struggled with a lot after Omerica's Town is people have. Have this expectation, and I still love those small, personal, intimate moments where it's not all big and flashy and all the lights and these things. And I would go into spaces thinking, oh, are they expecting this? Like, I would go in and do an event. I'm like, oh, the stage doesn't look like America's Got Talent. And then they're going to think that I need to look like that. And then they're. And then I also. One of the biggest struggles is now, do people only value me for this lane. And like, what you said earlier about, like, the magic is the vehicle, but Sometimes it in the way of the more. Sometimes it's like, well, I feel like I do have more to bring the world, but now people only see me as this. So do I stay in that thing? And then if I divert from that, will people not like it? And I, I think just that idea of people's perception of you now, it's. It's so much heavier, right? Like, because you feel like the minute you. You shoot up to a certain amount of success, people are expecting something of your performance. They're expecting something of how you carry yourself. They're expecting something of. Of how professional you are. And, man, there's times where it's intimidating too, because they're like, okay, what are you going to do? We need to set the stage for this. And I'm like, I don't know if I know this technical language. How do I explain this in a way that sounds right? So that was one of the big things, I think, also the pressure of feeling like you need to maintain that, because, you know, I think there's always ups and downs in any business.
- [44:10]
Leadership Podcast Host
Well, you win the Olympic gold medal and you're depressed next day.
- [44:13]
Dustin Tavella
Yes, that is very, very real.
- [44:16]
Leadership Podcast Host
And so one of the things I want our community to hear and what I read in you is I ask you one time, like, do you ever wish you didn't win?
- [44:27]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yeah. Which is a weird question because you're really thankful that you did. And sometimes you're kind of like going, well, I wish I could be known for other things, too.
- [44:36]
Dustin Tavella
Yes, exactly.
- [44:37]
Leadership Podcast Host
And so this is interesting because I get this a lot. One of the criticisms I get is people like, going, like, you know, you're a pastor, so why are you talking about leadership? And I'm going, like, actually, I don't see those as competing values. I see them as, you know, or, like, you know, you're a pilot. Like, why do you have time to do that? Like, you know, or, I'm an investor, I am an investor. Or how doesn't that. Aren't you just like, you know, greatness tends to find new lanes to run in. And not to say I'm great, but to say, like, that you have to give yourself permission to be multidimensional. And that's what. When I saw you and the, the first time I just said, there's so much greatness in here. I mean, I literally did, like, it can't be just magic. And so I honestly, I mean, you know, I met and met with you and said, hey, let's talk about some other Things.
- [45:25]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [45:26]
Leadership Podcast Host
And then let's. How can we. What can we spin off of this, and I just want our audience to hear this, is that when you do start winning in one place, why would you not win in others now? Not to the point of diluting what special meaning. I will never let this podcast dilute my drive for the church. It's always first. This is an overflow, and there is more. And so you have that. Talk to me about that. When you start, when you're known in an area, what do you do to continue to add value broadly?
- [45:58]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Oh, and just one thing, too, that I want to say, because you just made me think of this also, I think what has made you so successful again and what makes you so successful in these lanes is your ability to step into a space and see value that no one else sees. And that's the thing. I think it partially comes naturally, but it's partially a thing that you've trained yourself to do. Right? You see people, you raise up other leaders because you see a person who might normally get overlooked or might only be seen for that one thing. And, man, I just want to say, from seeing you on stages and your podcasts and your messages and your sermons and all these things, to see you off the stage, your leadership style being so continuous contagious is amazing. And I think that just this is part of my answer to this question, because I think that it's something that. That really does matter, is your ability to see those things as being valuable. Like, when you're saying about just being seen in one lane, like, how do you explore those things? For me, I think it goes back to, like you said, what is the definition of success? I know people who have built huge empires of things. Right. Especially after agt, it was like, the level of successful people that I knew completely changed. And it doesn't mean that the level of happy people that I knew changed. Right. And so I think that there has to be a part of you that, like, when you're trying to be successful, there's a part of you, when it's small, it's easy to be okay with failure because you have less to lose. But I think when you become successful in one area, it feels like you have so much more to lose. So it's become so much more scary now to take a risk in doing something else. But I think that playful spirit, that, like, willingness to take a risk, to try a thing, is exactly what makes a person successful. So it's weird because the same thing that makes you successful is the same thing that adds risk, the same thing that makes you confident in trying other lanes is the same thing that becomes dangerous about trying other things. Right. And I think you just have to lean into that and say, you know what? It's not about success or failure. It's really just about I need to be all that I am. And I'm going to keep doing that and I'm going to stay playful with it. And I think you'll be surprised at what you find working.
- [48:02]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yes. And like that be, you know, be all that you are. And it was so interesting is like, you know, we had a lot of people listen to this podcast and when I tell you I care, it's like, just stupid. Like, why am I doing this podcast? Like, you know, we don't get paid for all that. You know, it's like, it's just. It's. I just care.
- [48:20]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [48:20]
Leadership Podcast Host
Just care. And I wish I could sit down with everybody and try to find their unique greatness. And that's because it's just. That's kind of what I do, is I believe in people and I read between the lines sometimes. I overanalyze, see things that aren't there. But I'm always trying to read the. What's the story behind the story? And that's kind of a real driving force for me. For you, what I can just kind of tell. And you've kind of told me too. You know, you started in brokenness. You saw miraculous recovery. You like to care for people and you're gonna find a way to care for them. I just wanna say to our community, listening is find what that is in you. It's often born out of brokenness. I think I was so insecure growing up, so insecure that I had. I felt like the only way to win approval is to win something to beat somebody. And that was not. That was born out of brokenness. And now I wanna help other people get out of that brokenness. And so you've done that so well. But I'd like to hear my favorite kind of question is the story behind the story. And so today, when you're setting up early and you're treating our team here with like, they're your best friends, and you come in like you're genuinely a friend. I say you're a friend of the church. I don't think I've introduced anybody really that way before, but you seem like they said in your church, but you're a friend of the church. You. You're a friend of you version. You're wearing the shirt. And you served us and your person of faith that drives you to serve in ways that many people don't. Give me a little bit of the why.
- [49:58]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, I think just because I see how effective it can be. And there's so many times in life I'm tempted to make it about me. Like, I want to. To be the guy.
- [50:11]
Leadership Podcast Host
And then you don't. Like, you're not on social media, you hide, which is interesting. You're a public figure that's not always public.
- [50:20]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I've tried to live my life in a way to really protect that thing. I've seen so many people lose themselves in the success, in the drive for success, and even the drive to be the guy. Because, I mean, there's times where if like, okay, so we're talking about even vulnerability. If I'm gonna be vulnerable right now, there's times I can say, I wanna see the world change. I love using magic to do this. It's hard. If I see another magician doing a similar thing, it's like, oh, but I wanted to be that. I wanted to reach. I wanna be the one to reach everybody. Right. And I think what you said is so important. And this is the thing that inspires me. And this is why I think maybe to answer your question too, I think it's so important to keep people in your life who are challenging you to live in a different way. Because, like, in the short time that we've known each other, the bit that we've got to know each other, like you just said, I wish I could talk to everybody and do this thing. But you can't. But what you've done is you've the people who you can talk to, who you've invested into, you've taught them to do that. And as I have spent now multiple different occasions in different facets of your ministry and this church and you version, all these things, I have watched your leadership style multiplied and mimicked. And I watch everyone else who's in positions of leadership doing the same. The reason I come in and feel so connected to this place is because you have trained people to see people. I feel seen in this place going back to the ownership thing, I feel challenged to take ownership in this space when I'm here because you guys have treated me like I am part. And that comes from the way that you have led. And I think that as we live life in a way that is like a reminder that, you know, I can't do everything and I can raise other people up and train them to do more than what I can do on my own. It does. If you're doing this out of a place of insecurity, it's hard not wanting to be the one who does everything right. And I think it's like this constant, just dying to self. This constant. Almost like this lifestyle of training my brain to say, dustin, like, as much as we talk about everyone else needs connection. I need connection, too. And the minute that my business becomes more important than my wife and more important than my kids and more important than my friends, I start succeeding in those areas, in these other areas. But I'm lacking the thing that truly makes me satisfied. So how can I really lead people to anything meaningful if I'm just leading them into a lifestyle that I've only found to then be empty? Right. And so, man, I think having good people in your life is so important.
- [52:41]
Leadership Podcast Host
It's everything, right?
- [52:42]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. People who don't care about your church, about my magic show, about being the.
- [52:46]
Leadership Podcast Host
Pilot, or the business you have, you. You are way too grounded with external success. You can't be there without the right people in your life. You'll float away. And it's one of the most important things we can do, is bring the right people around us. I have a question I want to ask you that. I hope you can answer it. And I want to just qualify to our audience. We have people of all different faith backgrounds, no faith. And obviously we share the same faith as followers of Jesus. And so I'm not here to try to shove that down anybody's in their face. But we do have a lot of people that would skew towards saying, I'm a person of faith. You're on a national stage in front of people that don't care about your faith. Some would not like it, and yet you represented it well. Tell me as a leader, how I can do that in a way that's not too pushy, too passive, too creepy, too weird, because you do it so well.
- [53:50]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. Thank you, man. I actually heard a quote one time, someone said that sometimes we rely too much on the book that they didn't have instead of the spirit that they did have meaning. You know, you read through the Bible and you see these guys relying on the spirit of God to walk these things out. Like, when I read the Bible, I'm reading stories about Paul and about Peter and about. About Moses. Moses wasn't reading stories about like. Like, he is the story, Right? And basically, like, we have this book that they didn't have, but we have the same spirit that they had meaning I I as the Bible. That's not to say that the Bible is not important, but it's to say that, like, I also need to be living out my own gospel as well. And when I step into places, like onto America's crazy way to think about.
- [54:34]
Leadership Podcast Host
It, if we wrote about your life and it's not the Bible, but if we did, if we put it down on paper and said, let's study this, would we be inspired to be more like Jesus? Yeah.
- [54:42]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah. And like, Peter wasn't living his life like, oh, I should. They're writing a story about me and I'm gonna. He was just. He was just. He was living his life in relationship with Jesus.
- [54:51]
Leadership Podcast Host
And not always right.
- [54:52]
Dustin Tavella
Right. And not always right. The good stuff, the bad stuff, all of it. And I think that, like, I go into places a lot where I can't just explicitly share. I say explicitly share the Gospel, the gospel, as we call the Bible, but I can be sharing the gospel of my life, of the things that have happened in life. So when we talk about the homeless ministry that we've done and all these things, this is what's so amazing, is we get to live out the principles of the Bible and share that. Because when I step into a space, if I'm sharing my personal story, and that personal story happens to be me showing up for a homeless dude, seeing his life change, getting to pray for him, him getting sober, all these things, that's just a thing that happens.
- [55:26]
Leadership Podcast Host
And this will make a lot of my spiritual friends mad. But I want to say it just because I feel like there's. Sometimes you don't want to actually come in and just share the gospel. It would be the wrong. It would be too soon. It would be. Maybe you haven't earned permission to do that yet. And it doesn't mean that you don't sometimes living it. A lot of times you do want to share it. Like you do. And we need to say many times you don't. And you should. And there are other times you should live it out and let that shout it out.
- [55:54]
Dustin Tavella
And this going back to the Jesus example, there was times the other religious leaders and the disciples are like, why did you just tell people if they throw seeds here it'll grow, and here it would. Isn't that watering down the message? Isn't that. But Jesus knew where the people were at. He knew what they were ready to hear. And I mean, are you gonna preach to Jesus and like, Jesus, you're not bold enough, right? Like, you just, you watered down that message. I think that's the thing of again, understanding a person. It's not an excuse to shy away from what we believe. It's actually, it takes time to know people. And it's the thing, it is the thing that I love the most. That like when you're living that out, I get to just share aspects of my life with people and to genuinely care. And going back again to my parents story when my mom's having an affair with the pastor and stuff, it would have been silly for someone to come in quoting scripture about like forcing my dad through this process of the church. Like we had real church hurt. Right. Like that's a time when you probably just hate the church. I might just hate religion altogether, but knowing that that guy is a human. What it took was other humans not shoving the gospel down my parents throats. Right. But like living that out. These were Christian people who stepped into my parents lives and they show them. And now it was so powerful that my parents were able to differentiate a pastor who failed miserably and some other Christians who just represented Jesus. It wasn't the church. I mean, it wasn't God who hurt them. It wasn't God who let them down. It was people. And that's okay because we fail. And yeah, I think living out the gospel is the most more impactful than preaching all day long. It's the most impactful thing that we can do.
- [57:25]
Leadership Podcast Host
So you have a, you're working on a book?
- [57:28]
Dustin Tavella
Yep.
- [57:29]
Leadership Podcast Host
You'll be starting a podcast? Yep. A lot of people are gonna go, okay, I need to find out more about this guy. Got a show on Branson.
- [57:35]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [57:35]
Leadership Podcast Host
And how can people find you?
- [57:37]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, I think like the big thing would be, you know, we're gonna start being way more active like our YouTube channel. And then dustintavella.com on the website, you'll be able to find everything. Yeah, there's a book that I'm working on right now. Two different books, one about just some of these lessons that I've learned throughout the course of, you know, doing these years of ministry and music career and being a clown and then being a magician and then, and then one book just of this crazy story and all of the things that have come full circle and then, and then, yeah, just wanting to start a podcast of really wanting to share more in depth some of the things that have happened in our lives because it's hard to nutshell it all into one small conversation. And also I have some really weird and interesting people in My life that I'd love for the world to get to see. Right. These guys who.
- [58:19]
Leadership Podcast Host
That's exactly. Exactly what I just. Weird.
- [58:24]
Dustin Tavella
I love it, man. And it's. It's fun showing off weird and interesting friends. Right?
- [58:29]
Leadership Podcast Host
If you're not weird, you can't be great.
- [58:30]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [58:30]
Leadership Podcast Host
Bottom line is. And write that down if you care. If you're not weird, you can't be great.
- [58:34]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah, that's. And I'm gonna. It's recorded. I'm gonna write it down.
- [58:37]
Leadership Podcast Host
I don't think I've said that before, but it's. Yeah, I've tried. That's the way I like it. If you're not weird, you can't be great.
- [58:41]
Dustin Tavella
Yeah.
- [58:42]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [58:42]
Dustin Tavella
No, it's amazing, man. I think there's too many people trying to be successful by saying, what are other people doing on the Internet right now? Right? And they're like. They're following the algorithm. They're following the hashtags and the time of day and all stuff. And it's like the person who made it to the top, he was the first guy to do it. So if you're trying to, like. If you're trying to stand out, stop trying to follow the model of everyone else. Be weird. And this is my favorite verse, too, when you said, if you. If you can't be weird, you can't be great. One of my favorite Bible verses is where it literally says, as believers, we are peculiar people. It calls us peculiar. We should be weird. We should see things differently. I should walk into a business meeting where I should be more worried about impressing them with my business knowledge, but I should look and be like, you know what? I think it's more important to pick up that straw wrapper that's, like, on the floor. Right. That's weird. Right? But this is why I love the gospel. It's what it calls us. To do is to be weird. To be peculiar and. Yeah, be weird and be great. I love that.
- [59:36]
Leadership Podcast Host
Yeah. Well, Dustin, I applaud all the things that we didn't even get to cover today. The fact that you truly value your family, that you're a great husband to your wife, and you put them before any kind of external success. And that you're grounded in the gospel and that you have deep relationships and that you treat people with integrity. And so those are the true great qualities about you. And the rest is just what we get to see is the fruit of it. So thank you for being who you are. Thank you for being a friend to our church. Thank you for being, being a friend to me and to my family. So it's an honor to have you on. And I just want to say to all of you, man, I hope you're inspired by this because here you got a guy that literally was making up magic tricks as he went week after week to grow and use storytelling to impact people. And so I want to tell you right now, there is more in you. There's way more in you. And it's the kind of the weird things, the peculiar things, things, the little like the things that people make fun of, that's often where your greatness is buried. And so be free, be empowered to explore those things and do it with an others focused heart. When you serve people, that's a real quote. You serve people, you'll be great. That's the greatest of those who serve. And so thank you for being great in serving and thank you for being a part of our community. I genuinely do care about you so much and I'm going to work hard to bring content that helps you bring in your leadership. Because we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better.