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- [00:05]
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Welcome to the Crazy Love Podcast. So much of life today pushes us toward efficiency and constant improvement. Even in the church, it can become easy to think more about outcomes than people. In this episode of Staff Talks, Francis shares why some of the most important things in the kingdom are built slowly through friendship, faithfulness, and genuinely loving others over the long haul.
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It was just great catching up this morning. You know, just love him, love Bea, loved our family and. But we were just talking about. We got into John 13, how Jesus, just in verse one, he talks about having loved his disciples. He loved them till the end. And Ryan was bringing up how in chapter 15, you know, he felt like there's a climax in a. He didn't use that word. He always uses better words. But just the idea of friendship, of Jesus calling them his friends. And I was looking at that too and thinking, wow, he's like, no longer do I call you slaves, call you my friends, because a slave doesn't know his master's business. I'm calling you friends. I'm telling you what's about to happen. And it made me flashback to yesterday. Zeke asked me a question from his Bible reading, going, hey, why do you think Jesus would sometimes say, hey, don't tell anyone, or keep this quiet or even with the demons, like, hey, shut up, shut up. Telling everyone that I'm the son of God. And I said, I always understood that as a timing thing. There was a time, an appointed time, when Christ was going to go. So we didn't want this group people making too big of a deal. Everything was all set up. And in Bible college, because I went to a cessationist college, it was just. It didn't totally make sense because my favorite professor, too, Bookman, he was like, you know, like, Jesus planned it all out as a strategy. But I was thinking about it this morning and thinking, yeah, but I think it was more like the Holy Spirit was just telling him what to do. But because we didn't really hear from God and didn't believe in that, we didn't want to overemphasize that back then, but I go, no, I think there is a way that we really hear from the Spirit and that we really could be told. And I don't know if it was Jesus really masterminding, you know, like, okay, I do this here, this, this, this, this. Or as a human being really being so close to the Holy Spirit, that's like, hey, send these guys to go get the. You know, tell them that there's a donkey here. And whereas we were kind of taught. Like, Jesus saw the donkey earlier and he knew it would be there, and he already made plans with this guy, which could be true, but it just seems more like Jesus was the example of hearing and knowing when to do what and how much of that is available. But with the going on with the friendship theme and the friendship with God and relationships and, you know, faithfulness, what does that look like for us? As he was talking about, I might do this, I might do this, I might do this, I might do this. You know, there were so many options. And I go, gosh, this is totally the way my mind thinks, too. Here's all these options. Which one would be most effective? And I share that. You know, when I look back at my life, we can sometimes inadvertently send the wrong message or exemplify the wrong things. Um, and, you know, we. We're in such a pragmatic. We're so used to change now, like, rapid change, like, crazy rapid change, that I think it gets into our psyche of, like, this isn't working right. Let's change, or there's got to be something better. I think there has to be something in. In this that is, like, I could change everything in a few seconds. You know, like, I could do things right now. Like, I could buy some stock right now. Like. Like, that's crazy. I can do this, this, this, and this could change everything. And so you get in this mode and. And suddenly the things that you can't change that are just. It takes a long time. And, you know, Jesus was faithful to his disciples. He, you know, and we can go, well, it was only three and a half years or whatever, but I think there was something to that message of he was just faithful to them and faithful to the end. Because then we start talking about church stuff, you know, out there, and it's like, well, you know, maybe we should focus more on reaching the young people. Or maybe we're making a mistake because, you know, the older people leave and this, this. I go, well, are we doing it again? Like, rather than just being faithful and loving the people that are right in front of you. And what is true faith in scripture? What would that look like? Wouldn't it look like, okay, these are the people that are in front of me, so let me love them the best way possible. Let me believe that God orchestrated their lives and brought them to this place, and so they have supernatural gifting and we have enough here. It's not, let's grab this guy or grab that guy, or, let's get rid of this guy or you know, it's not like. You know, it's not like a sports team nowadays where you're just like, okay, let's get rid of this guy and trade him for these two guys. Like, it can just become a natural way of thinking. And Hong Kong is very pragmatic that way, but you start thinking that way, and you may miss out on the most important things God's called us to. And Ryan and I both just talked about how our minds naturally default to production. It has for a long time. And versus, like, he was referring to his marriage with B. And saying, you know, based upon how long my grandparents lived and our parents lived. Like, if I look at it that way, B and I are just in the first. We just finished, like, the first quarter of our life together. And he goes, if you're in a basketball game and you're down in the first quarter, it's okay, you know, like, you don't just quit right then Silas would quit. But most people, they. They wouldn't quit because, you know, it's like, okay, let's readjust. Let's do this and move forward. And. And some of the blessing of just longevity and faithfulness that. And I was saying, yeah, most people will never taste of that. You know, Lisa and I are 33, 34 years together, and there's certain things that you just can't have without that. You. You get to experience something that people. Other people will never get to experience. Like, the most people will never get to experience. Just staying committed to one person. You don't realize how much better it is until later on down the road. You know, it can be, you know, so many people, I'm going to leave my wife. I'm going to leave my kids. And they don't understand, like, because you can't see it, like, being faithful to his word and just saying, no, I'm going to love my kids, love my grandkids. And you start loving your grandkids and they start growing up. It's like, wow. The richness of the full picture of just this commitment to people that we can get lost. We can lose because there's this allure of accomplishment, and you could have done a lot more here and there. And that's where I go, gosh, I. There is a truth that, like, when I left Cornerstone, there were so many signs that just seemed like, whoa, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. I think we'd be unfaithful not to go. But there's that other side now looking back and like this weekend I'll see some guys that I was their youth pastor back when I was 21, you know, and we'd go hang out and I'm speaking for an event for them and it's like, ah, super fun and those types of long, you know, people I haven't seen in over 30 years and get to reconnect with them and hang out again. And, and there's something about faithfulness and friendship and, and that's why even when we thought about the San Jose thing, I was telling him, you know, you know, there's that opportunity in San Jose and Kevin could draw it on the board and go, gosh, that makes total sense. But there's something in me, in my spirit. It's like, I just don't want to do anything that makes me leave a group of people again because there's something that is invisible. I think that we see where I go, yeah, I wouldn't do the cornerstone thing again. I just go start my own thing. There's something awesome about friendships and relationships and you know, I was, you know, FaceTiming with Ryan. I'm like, it's like awesome just seeing Rob and Sarah outside their house in the backyard and then I can look through the window and I see mercy, you know, feeding the child. And I go, you know, these are the blessings. And going back to how this whole meeting started, I just, I did think about you, Kevin. I go, man, it's been awesome. It really has. Just the longevity, the relationship. And I was telling Ryan, I was thinking, gosh, yeah, I can forget like about Jared moving in as like a six year old little kid and it's like, gosh, that's a lot of love life. And it feels good just to be committed to people. Like, man, there's a blessing there. And you guys might not know, but I've known Paul a long time. I mean, he's one of those friends from way back. No, it's just, let's just be careful, you know, because when I brought up love again, you know, with, with Ryan, which is kind of, I mean he's kind of motivated a lot of the thoughts behind Beloved and it's just like he's like, oh gosh, here we go again. We forgot, we forgot. It's not over, complicate, you know, how are we doing with showing up to these gatherings and just loving these people and loving them, being faithful to, loving them to the end and what will that look like? And, and so just thinking through Jesus in his life, you know, having loved his disciples he loved them to the end. And it was such a great thing that he said that, hey, I don't call you guys slaves. You're my friends, you know, you know my plans. And I know it's, it's again, the love thing, the simple thing, but I don't think we can overemphasize this. And I think the enemy will just keep trying to pull us away from this and not to fall for it. And with AI and with all these strategies and everything else, there's just, you know, Ryan and I was talking about this morning just again, just wanting to be the church that people knew if you join this group, you're going to be loved, like to be guaranteed that you will be loved and you won't be just a part of a strategy and, oh, we could really use this person. And this person's getting in the way. But more just like people know when they're loved. And the more we move away from that and move into cool ideas, The less we're going to see real result. And it's a real danger right now. And that's why, you know, in our previous meeting I was talking about, Diana just gave me a list of all these different speaking possibilities that just came in. And at first I was like, ah, gosh, looking at them all, I should say no to all because this fall is already teetering on busy and I don't know what God's called me to, but there was this one that was for these pastors. And I thought, yeah, I do. I do feel like I have something to say to the pastors that may just feel like they're not crushing it. And I just got an email the other day from a guy who said, yeah, I'm thinking about passing the church on to someone else because I haven't been able to grow it. You know, it's kind of just sustained in these last, whatever, five years. And I just like, hey, I just really want to encourage you. You know, it's very easy to think that way. But it, it, I see you with your people, you really are loving them faithfully and we can get caught up in. But my church hasn't grown in so long. And so then we, we want to jump to all these different methods because the numeric growth is so big to us because it's. Even though we say it. And at every church growth conference, they'll say, hey, this isn't everything. But there is a constant pressure when we lift up the people whose churches are growing and only them. Last thing I'll Say, is, you know, with the whole film project that we were talking about, you know, we're talking about me interviewing Sister Bethany Madonna, the nun who spends hours a day and, you know, every week, at least one full day in silence, just alone with the Lord. And we're just talking about equivalence in the Protestant and Catholic world. And she's like, okay, grab someone from the Protestant world that does the same thing and interview them. I go, who is that? Who is it that's known for being prayerful? And there is the truth that, well, if that's what they do, then we wouldn't know about it, but someone would still know about it. And, you know, it's just. We're starting to be known for the wrong things, I guess. And it's like, who is just faithfully, quietly enjoying their walk with the Lord and seeking him? Who's. Who's just been that faithful person that just loves their people and didn't get caught up in. But I gotta do this and this and this and. And the last thing, you know, I want to bring up. I always get a lot of thoughts when Ryan and I go back and forth, but, you know, what is it? This whole. The last shall be first. And who is really going to be lifted up in heaven? And is there a person that's just faithfully washing dishes that no one's heard of? And they love the church. They use their gifting. They walked with the Lord. Kind of like the Brother Lawrence thing without maybe ever having become famous, you know, without this book or whatever. But, you know, he just really saw, like, to do this faithfully and walk with the Lord and keep making soup or whatever. I kind of mixed up with Nacho Libre. I don't know which one did he make? Well, and, you know, they both just, like, you know, kept making food for the orphans. Sorry, but he did something. I mean, he just worked in the kitchen, right? Washed dishes. Yeah, I think Nacho was made from that character. Maybe so. Anyways, I think there is a responsibility we have as Crazy Love, too. You know, two other ministries where, okay, we know in the world a lot of people are fearing their jobs because of AI and it's like. And there's like, a lack of worth because it's like, well, AI would do this better than me. And now we have more pastors going to AI to find their solutions and even their sermons. Because it's true. Even. Even this right here. I could be teaching this thing to you guys, or I could have gone to AI or had Rob helped me get on AI and find the right, you know, hey, put together a message, something I would say the greatest thing I could say to the staff today, and it probably would have technically been better, but that's not the way the kingdom works. In fact, God is going to frustrate that. And the more you run that that's been. What this book says is like, you're going to run to Egypt, you're going to run to the chariots, you're going to AI, you're going to replace me. Because this is so much better. There are things that are irreplaceable and there's something about us being faithful to who God has there and believing God is going to use this group. And I, there's some way that we need to keep being that and modeling that and preaching that I think is in this season to encourage people. They're like, but this isn't happening. This isn't happening. It's easy for you to say, you've got Kevin Kim, you've got Sean, you got all these people. And it's like, no, that was kind of the commitment I made when I moved to sf. It's like, don't recruit. And whoever comes your way, just use them. Because the guy God could bring could be a guy that's homeless right now or in prison right now that's going to end up being your right hand guy. And it's like, all right, just use who God brings and be faithful in that. And then at the end you're like, wow, that's pretty cool. I got to see Rob's kids grow up. Or that's pretty cool. I got to be a part of Jared's life or, you know, be there at his wedding. And then he had kids and they were faithful. And I don't know, it's just like, these are good things. These are big things. And don't just think the big event or the big ministry or whatever else we can all get caught up in. It's just keep loving each other and moving forward. And it's easy to get frustrated with people. Last illustration. Like, I know this is the illustration. That's why I had to clarify. I'll close with this. I remember at Cornerstone I was, I had a softball team. You know, back then I was competitive. And so there are a couple of guys, like someone guy always want to play like, you know, left field. We put him right field, but he drops everything and he's like, move me to left field, coach. I'm like, why would I move you to the left field? Like, you're dropping right field or whatever. You know, I'm just trying to be careful with how I worded. And there was a first baseman that was really short, and he really wanted to play first base, and he wouldn't catch all of them. And, you know, it's just, you know, but we end up winning the championship. And so then, you know, I got to make a new team the next quarter, and I thought, I just won't call this guy or this guy or this guy, and kind of subbed in for much better people. And we lost. Oh, shoot. I think there's a lesson in that, you know, you try to upgrade, and that's just what the world does or whatever, and. But it just doesn't always work that way. There's a chemistry. There's a. There's just a sovereignty. And so I think in the church, too, I want us to be careful that we don't do that and go, you know, but to really believe what the scripture says, the ones that seem to be dispendable or dispensable. What is it? Whatever. The ones you can dispensable are the ones that are really irreplaceable or the most necessary and to believe that. So.
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Thank you for listening to the Crazy Love podcast. Join us next week for a new episode, but until then, for more resources from Crazy Love Ministries or to support the word work of Crazy Love, please visit our website@crazylove.org.