Jen Drummond (2:39)

I know. It was so much fun. And now I'm sitting there. Okay, click. How do we do another Miami weekend? Like, let's go. It's happening. Watch out. Miami.

Angie Lee (2:46)

Yeah, Miami. Seriously, watch out. We really know that is the case because when we're together, it is ridiculous. And I'm for everyone listening, just, no. Sometimes you meet people on the Internet and they're not the way that you thought they would be, which, sadly, that is the truth. Right? Like, I mean, you just never know what you're going to get. Jen is so my energy, so my vibe. Like, she's so us. And it was just. It was so great to be able to hang with you. I can't wait till I get to see you again.

Jen Drummond (3:11)

I know. I'm so happy. So yay. Yay, Internet. Thanks for the connection. We're good.

Angie Lee (3:15)

Your story is so incredible. My son loves your story, like, parts that you were sharing with him. And I really want you to kind of give everybody the insight and the incredible journey that you've been on thus far.

Jen Drummond (3:29)

Yeah. You know, so I was that girl that was seeking external validation anywhere she could get it. Right. I got into the financial service career out of college, which is fantastic for people seeking external validation because they keep your names on a wall and stats and how much money are you making and bringing in and revenue that you're driving and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that lifestyle wore on me so much to the fact that I'm like, okay, I can't stay here any longer at this company because I will explode. So I started my own company, which is always a ton more work in the beginning until you learn how to hire yourself out of a job, which is a skill that takes a lot of development, a lot of trial and error. But luckily I had that happen because I became a mom. And when I became a mom, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be this wonderful stay at home mom, because that's what everybody's dream was in my hometown. And I have these seven amazing children, and all of a sudden they started going to school. I'm like, okay, well, I don't really like this. And I didn't know what to do with not really liking that because I felt shame and guilt about not being ecstatic to have this privilege to be a stay at home mom. And I told myself this lie. I said, okay, this is just a season. I'm going to do this stay at home mom thing until my last one goes to college. And so that's like 15 years from now. Like, we got this girl and I was going through the motions and I was doing the thing. And I would say that my life was meh, right? Like, it wasn't ecstatic, it wasn't terrible. It was just, this is what it was. Plug and play, Groundhog Day, Repeat, repeat, repeat. And then in 2018, December 18th of 2018, I was in a horrific car crash that should have taken my life. In fact, they've rebuilt the accident 50 different times and could not build a scenario where I lived, let alone walked away. And that accident made me realize I don't get to choose when I die, but I sure get to choose how I live. And how I'm living is a choice. And is this the choice I want to be making? And that just woke me up to the fact, like, my life could end at any moment and if it ended right now, I would be devastated. Of all the things I didn't take a chance to see, do, experience, try, like, all of it. So 2019 became like the year of the reckoning. And I had this huge bucket list and everything under the sun went on it from I want to taste pasta in Italy, to swim in the ocean at the Great Barrier Reef, and like, whatever, right? I just allowed myself to be playful and curious and explore who I was. And on that list was climb a mountain. And then I'm like, okay, I'm going to climb a mountain for my 40th birthday, which happened in 2020. And that got escalated into this world record pursuit and like life's history. But that's kind of like me in a nutshell from the beginning.

Angie Lee (6:53)

So when you look back now, first of all, it's so incredible what you've done. And I can't wait to get into some of the details here. But, you know, when you look back at that accident, like, what do you attribute that to in your perspective, like, how you survived that?

Jen Drummond (7:07)

Yeah. You know, I think it's funny because two months prior to that accident, so in October, somebody gave me that book called the Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer. And prior to that point in my life, like, Surrender was a weakness. Like, you do not surrender ever. And someone's like, just read this book. I think you'll like it. So I read the book, and I journaled on that word for, like a month. And finally I'm like, oh, okay, I get this. I understand how this is actually a superpower, not a weakness. And da, da, da, da, da. And I think the universe has this way of saying, okay, you get it, but do you live it? And so when that car accident happened, I remember seeing the semi truck coming up onto my passenger side headlight. I'm like, I'm gonna. We're colliding. And I remember, like, saying it. You know, you negotiate with death in those moments. Like, okay, I promise I'll do something significant with my life if you just let me live. And when that collision actually happened, like, I had this download of, like, I am not going to be able to force through this, like, everything else in my life where I would double knuckle and try harder and push more and make it happen. Like, the only way I'm going to survive this accident is if I let go and totally surrender and just roll with the car, because the car's stronger than me and I can't beat it. And it was that surrender experiment in real life. So I put my hands on the steering wheel, my head on the headrest, and I just counted the rolls. I'm like, okay, I have enough momentum. I'm going to go again. I'm going to go again. And I went like three forward flips. And then I started doing the sideways rolls, and then I ended up upside down in the median. And the interesting thing about that spot was, you know, someone came running, and I could hear them. They're like, are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay? But I wasn't registering that they were talking to me until that person peeled back the windshield. And when they peeled back the windshield, we caught eyes. And this guy looking at me goes, are you okay? And I looked back at him, and I'm like, based on his facial expression, I am not okay. And so I'm like, what do I do? What do I do? And so instead of, I didn't have the courage to look at my body at this moment because I felt all these warm feelings everywhere. And I'm like, I'm sure I'm bleeding out. I don't even know what just happened. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I closed my eyes and I wiggled my fingers and toes. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can feel my fingers. And Toes. Like, I can feel my fingers and toes. And I said that out loud a couple times. He goes, if you can feel your fingers and toes, you're going to be okay. I just need to leave you here until the ambulance comes because I don't know what's going on. I'm like, okay, fine. And I share that story because I think it's so important for us to recognize we're the only ones that can tell the world we're okay because the world's going to tell you you're not. Like that guy's face was telling me, I'm not okay. But that's not a truth I have to believe. I have to listen to my internal story and come up with whatever that truth is for myself.

Angie Lee (10:27)

Meet a different guest each week. Confidence. Cleaver. I asked you to try to find your passion. So powerful. I'm not great at surrender either. However, the last year I've really. Actually, no, it started for me, me back right at the end of the pandemic. I started like trying to learn more about it, trying to understand what that meant because truly, and I'm sure for some people listening, like, it doesn't even make sense. Can you explain to us what surrender is and how it's applicable in your life?

Jen Drummond (11:01)

For me, I think it's like I learned how to surf during COVID Like, one of the fun things about COVID is like, we had all this time and I took my kids to Hawaii because I'm like, if we're going to blow up, like, let's blow up at the beach. And so we did Covid in Hawaii and I remember learning how to surf and how you had to like paddle so hard to get into the wave. And then once you got into the wave, like, you just, you relaxed and you just let go and you just like flowed with the wave. And I think so much of us are used to just that paddling of so hard and just giving it all that we got that we forget. The other part of that circle is to let go and ride the momentum that you've generated. And so for me, with that car accident, it was like, okay, I can't beat this car. The only thing I can do is try to move with it. Because if I move with it, then I'm not resisting it. And that resistance is what causes injury. And so when we're looking at our own lives like, yeah, the bus pulls up, you gotta frickin hustle to get on that bus to go wherever you're going. But once you're on that bus. Like, that's your chance to, like, take the ride and get off at the next stop.

Angie Lee (12:17)

When I'm hearing you talk about this, it's reminding me. That's wild. I haven't thought of this in a long time. Right near the end of COVID my spin class, we couldn't meet indoors, so we actually did class on a rooftop, which is. I live in Miami. So we're very blessed, right? Like, we're at the beach. So we're so blessed. We had the opportunity to do that in such a difficult time when, you know, people couldn't be together. We could actually be in a group setting outside, and you could see over the top of the roof. And I remember, and I always think, like, divine intervention. Like, you get the right messages at the right time. It's up to you if you want to receive it or not, right? Like, obviously, some of us were busy, whatever, but in this moment, I wasn't. I was, like, open to receiving messages. And Covid had been horrible for me and my son. Living in a small condo. My son lost his dog, was depressed. Like, it was a really bad time in our life. And I'm the most extroverted person I've ever known in my entire world. So I was miserable. Okay, cut to. I'm on this route, the instructor speaking to us, and he starts. He's like this kind of introverted, quiet guy, and he's talking about the need to just let go and how scary it can feel to just let go, but that when you do it, that's when you find your peace. That's when you can really be free. And so I'm listening to him, and I'm like, it makes sense. But that sounds really hard, really foreign to me, and super scary because, like, you type a overachiever. I've just been, like, flying my way to everything, trying to control everything my whole life, right? Like, And I didn't. I didn't understand there was a different way. So as he's saying this, I was so open to receiving the message in the moment. I remember thinking, I need to let go right now. Like, this is the moment. I was, like, looking over the edge of the building. I could see, like, just the whole world. And I'm like, I just need to let go. I can't white knuckle anything anymore. I have to let go. And, like, that really started this process for me, which I certainly. I'm not nailing it, but every morning, I asked us to surrender my life to God and God, your Plan is greater than mine. And I let go for your plan because one thing that I've noticed, nothing as dramatic as, like, what you've gone through. Just so powerful and so visible. Like, I get it. But I've had, like, these little winds of, like, when I do let go, watching something beautiful show up in my life that I never knew. And kind of similar to you, when you're talking about this whole path that you started down, that's when you found the mountain to climb, right? Like, when you let go, you really find your true path and your true calling. And what's more beautiful than that?

Jen Drummond (14:42)

Oh, no. And it's crazy because, like, when I got into this mountaineering stuff, I had never slept in a tent, okay? So it wasn't like I was this hardcore mountaineer. Let's make this happen. Life is good. Like, it was just this, okay? I have this space to allow something different show up. I'm in this place of curiosity. And if someone would have said, hey, I want you to go climb this mountain in a different setting, I would have been, no. Unless I knew exactly how to make it happen and to get to the top and to win or to whatever else like that. Like, I was. I can look back and see, like, I was very selective on what I would get involved in because it was my brand. It was who I was. Like, I had to be number one because that's the only place I felt safe. And after the accident, I was like, I would rather have the experience, failing, trying to climb a Mount Everest than never even trying to climb it. And that, like, when I had that aha moment, and that, like, thing of success is experience versus success is number one. The doors, like, flooded open with all kinds of opportunity.

Angie Lee (15:51)

Wow. That's so incredibly powerful. And you're so right. Why did it take us so long to start learning these things? And psychologists, this stuff needs to be taught to kids in school. It's crazy.

Jen Drummond (16:02)

Yes, I know. It's great. Like, and it's funny because I have seven kids, so I have, like, this, you know, crayon box of different colors and ways of doing life. And it's funny because some of my kids are hardwired for that external validation. And I have a couple of them that are hardwired. They're like, I don't care what my grade is, Mom. It doesn't matter. Like, this is who I am. And it's so fun because some of them, I'm like, oh, this is me. And some of them, I'm like, man, I wish I had that knowledge or that view or that way of doing life. It's so fun to watch them bring it forward and me learn from them, guys.

Angie Lee (16:37)

So listening right now, the power is in the surrender. The power is in the letting go. That is the strongest, most powerful thing that you can do. Not the way we'd always been taught. All right, take us into. Because first of all, the fact that you bring hair dryers and, like, curling irons when you do go on your mountain trip, like, give us a little insight into, like, how this thing came to be and, like, how you still are you on mountains and, like, what you've done.

Jen Drummond (17:03)

Yeah. Okay. So we back up and say, okay, I'm gonna climb a mountain for my 40th birthday. And I live in Park City, so there's people that are big into mountains all over the place. And I asked some friends that I knew were big into mountaineering. Hey, if you could climb one mountain in the whole world, what would you climb? And some people said, you know, you should go climb this mountain named Ama de Blomm. I'm gonna say that again because it's gonna come forward. Ama de Blomm. I'm like, okay. Like, it's the Paramount Pictures logo. I've researched it now. I don't think it really was, but I was sold on that at the moment. Like, so every time you go to a movie, you can say, like, I climbed that mountain, and it's in Nepal and all these things, I'm like, okay, sweet. That's the mountain I'm gonna climb. Well, early on in 2020, Covid happened. So I'm not climbing anything or going anywhere. And now I'm homeschooling, and my youngest son is struggling with his math homework. So I'm doing that parent pep talk. Like, we do hard things. You've got this. And this little guy looks me straight in the face and he goes, mom, if we do hard things, why are you climbing a mountain called I'm a dumb blonde instead of a real mountain, like Mount Everest? And I'm sitting there, I'm a dumb blonde. I'm a dumb. I'm a da blonde, honey. Not I'm a dumb blonde, but thank you. And so then I'm like, you finish your homework. We'll look at Everest. So he finishes his homework, we look at Everest. He goes to bed, and I sit there and think. I'm like, why not Everest? If this kid's perception is that Everest is the hardest mountain in the whole world, I'm going to climb It. And I'm going to show him whatever our Everest is, we're capable of summiting. So I call up a coach. The coach is like, yes, I can get you ready. Used to be an athlete. This will be fine. He goes, buy this book about becoming an uphill athlete. So I'm like, okay, fine. So this book comes in the mail, and in the front, I'm like, reading it, and in the front of it, there's a story of a lady who got a Guinness World Record. I don't know, I must have been having a terrible day or something, but I'm having this call with my coach about training, and I'm like, I could have done that. That lady suffered through something in the Alps. I can suffer. I have seven children right now that hate me because I'm doing this homeschool thing. Like, if I got a Guinness World Record, I'd be a cool mom. And my coach is like, okay, I'll think of something. I'm like, okay, fine. And I, like, just went on with life, kind of letting it go. I didn't even. It wasn't a big point of our conversation. But he calls me a few weeks later, and he's all excited. He's like, jen, I have the perfect world record for you. I'm like, oh. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what is it? He's like, I think you should be the first female to climb the Seven second Summits. Like, okay, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, you know the Seven Second Summits? I'm like, no, I don't know the Seven Second Summit. So he's like, you know, it's the second highest point on each of the seven continents. It's actually harder than the first seven. It's only been done by one male, so you'd be the first woman to do it. And he goes, if you think about it, seven mountains, seven continents, seven children. It sounds like a jackpot. And I had that full body. Yes. Like, it does sound like a jackpot. But do you know what I look like? Like, do you know what it takes to run this show? Like, are you kidding me? And he's like, I think you should do it. So I thought about it with my kids, and I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Like, who cares if I fail? This is a pretty epic experience to pursue. And so I started on it, and I remember, like, I climbed one mountain, and it wasn't, like, a big deal. So then I'm like, okay, I'm Fine. I climbed the next one. It wasn't a big deal. As in, like, I wasn't away from civilization for very long. So, like, I could still keep this going, but it was time to go climb Everest with my son that I had promised that I would climb it. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be gone for like three or four weeks. And that's the speed version of Everest there. Most people are gone like 6 to 8. And so I'm trying to figure out how this is all gonna work. And I had called these climbing companies. I'm like, hi, I'm like interviewing climbing companies to climb Everest. I have some questions. So I had like all the important questions. And then my last question was, hey, I have really long blonde hair and I don't want to get sick and not be able to summit. And so I was wondering if I could bring a hairdryer and use the generator to dry my hair. And the first company was like, you should just cut your hair. Like, no, you're not. I don't even know what you're asking me right now. Like, okay, hung up. Right. The second company I called, they're like, yeah, sure, you know, once a week you could use the generator. I don't think that'd be a big deal. That'd be fine. And then the third company I called was like, do you need a mirror? I'm like, that's my company, right? Like, they're anticipating, like, not, you know, if you're going to dry your hair, you need to look at when you're doing it. And I'm like, that just shows this company going above and beyond. That's who I'm going to climb with. And so anyways, I go to climb Everest and a company in Utah gave me a solar powered battery that would actually power the hair dryer. So I wouldn't use the generator. And then I could leave the battery for this company to use for other things. And so I bring the solar power battery. I take a shower at basecamp and I go to plug in my hair dryer because I think I'm going to dry my hair in my tent so no one really knows what's going on. And it doesn't work because it has to be on the frickin sun for the battery to work. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to do this in front of all these people. Okay, maybe my hair will dry by itself. So, like, I literally waited an hour to see if my hair was drying. It was like turning into ice crystals. It was not drying. I'm like, okay, well, I have to dry it because the sun's out and the sun's going to go down. So I finally get enough courage and I try to hide. Okay, I'm hidden for, like, five minutes. And then everybody's like, there's a girl blow drying her hair over there. And so, like, everybody's watching and coming around. I'm, like, so embarrassed. Whatever. My hair gets dried. I kind of, like, get over it. We climb Everest, we summit, and then afterwards, everybody collects some Kathmandu before they fly home and kind of have some celebration. So I go back to Kathmandu and I'm known as Mountain Barbie because I'm drying my hair. And I was super embarrassed until this woman came up to me and she goes, hey, I just want to thank you. I'm like, thank me? She was like, yeah, I want to thank you for having needs, not apologizing for them, and doing what you needed to do. And she's like, that gave me a whole bunch of courage to ask for what I needed, because it wasn't like I was asking for shrimp at base camp. I'm just not a mini male, and women have different needs than men do, and we can still do things that they want to do, like climb Everest. And I literally had, like, four or five women come up to me and give me those same kind of sentiments. And it was one of those things where, like, well, if I knew this was going to happen, I would have been, like, loud and proud drying my hair at Everest. But I think we forget that if we have a need, somebody else probably does, too. And so if we have the courage to step into that, just like you talk about, if we have the confidence to do whatever, look what it does for everybody, not just ourselves.

C (24:28)

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Angie Lee (25:36)

Oh, my God. This is like a mini version of what you're talking about. But in my life, what you just reminded me of is every time I speak at a tech conference, I mean, you and I are very similar with, like, how we dress and whatnot. And so I'm always, like, wearing, you know, bright pink or like bright baby blues and like something very feminine. And typically I'm wearing a dress. Right. And so what I didn't know. Just like you, you didn't know that the impact you have just being yourself. Because when you were drying or just doing what you do right, like, that was important to you. And I love that they gave you this feedback because every single time I do it at a tech conference, specifically, I get chased down leaving the building every time, going to my car, going to Uber, and it's always women coming after me to tell me, thank you so much for wearing what you wore today. You just gave me permission to start showing up as a woman in my tech company. I always feel like I can't. I feel like women can't really be women and celebrate themselves. Thank you for showing me what's possible for me. And I think so often for everyone listening, we don't think that we have that impact, that we have that domino effect on other people. But the reality is everybody has that power.

Jen Drummond (26:45)

Yeah, no, we do. And we forget that we're not just showing up for ourselves, we're showing up for women everywhere. And it's so important to, you know, check in and say, like, if I do this, what kind of impact can I have? Because we impact each other either by not doing something, which then keeps everybody hush, hush, or if we have the courage to do something, it lets other people tap into their courage and more becomes possible.

Angie Lee (27:11)

So good. Okay, so you didn't stop with just summiting these mountains, right? Like, this started you on a whole different path and trajectory in your life ultimately to writing your new book. Talk to us a little bit about, like, how that came to be and why you did it.

Jen Drummond (27:27)

Yeah. So here's the book, seven Strategies to Build Resilience and Achieve youe Life Goals. And I live by somebody that writes books, right? So when I was on a walk one day, halfway through this pursuit, they're like, you should write a book. I should have thought about that. But, like, who the messenger was like, you write books for a living. That's easy for you. I do not write books for a living. This was a big undertaking, but I did it because I know the me before the accident. There's a lot of me out there. And so I wrote this book to that version of me and saying, like, listen, if something's inside of you, like, you're the only one that can bring it to life. I need you to become break proof in that pursuit. Because if you do, you. You give my daughter permission for her to do her, and we all benefit.

Angie Lee (28:19)

It's so true. And it's funny because when you were just talking about that, I'm thinking about what you said. You were living meh. That's what you said. Myth. Like, well, I've been there myself. When I was in corporate America for a decade, I was kind of like, I didn't love what I was doing, but I'm like, oh, golden handcuffs. Got to do it, got to pay the bills. I really thought, like, that was just the only option for life. Which is wrong. So wrong how, like, Jen, now that you've gone down this road and like, you really devoted so much of your life now to this purpose driven work was, what percent of people are living a life?

Jen Drummond (28:53)

Gosh, you know, it's crazy. I think a lot. Like, I don't even know how you put a percentage on it, but here's how I know. Because when I go on walks with friends or I talk at companies or I meet with people because their companies come in here to do events and I take their group on a hike or whatever that looks like, you realize you have these conversations and then they start getting excited because they're excited about what you achieved, and they start seeing the possibility in themselves and they start getting curious about what that shift would look like or what single step they could take to do something a little bit different. And I think if they were already on that path, those aha moments wouldn't click like they do. And so for me, it's just been this thing of get curious, like, lean into yourself. What gets you excited? Like, I was so lost in motherhood, and that's like a reputable thing to be lost in. Like, let's not be shy about the fact that society commends you for being lost in motherhood, right? You could Never be too good of a mother. That when I started journaling after the accident, like, I don't even know what my favorite color is. And so I bought this pack of pins. There's like 12 different colors. I'm like, I can't write in red because that feels like I'm correcting myself. If I write in yellow, I feel like I can't see what I wrote. Like, I'm like going through these things and I finally decided. I'm like, I'm going to write in purple. Purple's playful. It's like all these different things. And when you get curious about yourself and allow yourself to like, just step into these things and try it out and not commit to it forever and let it be a season, like life becomes pretty fun again. No matter what you're doing or where you are on your journey, it's so flipping true.

Angie Lee (30:40)

And that's the thing, for a long time, when you are a type A overachiever who's so driven to achieve success, like you said, and be number one, it's easy to lose sight that life's supposed to be fun. And I, for a long time. And I know same with you. Like, you kind of just forget about it. You ignore, am I even having fun every day versus when you show up every morning and you're doing something that you're put on this earth to do and you're living a purpose driven life.

Jen Drummond (31:04)

Things are so here's like a crazy thing. So my story, and we all have a story. So the thing is to give yourself space to become aware of your story. My story was, I am lucky to have the opportunity to be a stay at home mom, which I truly was. But there was a time where my kids needed me home and I'm glad I was there for it. And then they started doing their thing and they needed a different role model. And so when I started to step into things that I was doing, they like watched. And we would have conversations that were more the same, right? Like, my son didn't want to do his math homework, Hey, I don't feel like training today, but I'm going to go climb Everest, so I have to train. Like, sometimes we have to do things we don't like because we want the end result. Like, I have to eat healthy, I have to do so. We were doing life in parallel. And so we could compare notes of like, oh, this is what we do. This is how it looks. This is how it works. It wasn't just me preaching, like, hey, I don't even really like my life. But here's what you need to do. Kids don't want to take advice from somebody that's not loving their life. They want to take advice from, like, my mom is slaying it. Angie's happy. What is she doing? I want to copy that. And I think it's so important for us to realize, like, we're always on a stage with our friends, with our children, with our peers. Like, we got to lean into us.

Angie Lee (32:29)

Meet a different guest each week. I asked you to try to find your passion. Oh, such a fact. Kids are gonna do what they see you do, not what they hear you tell them to do. And that's so powerful and so important to remember. All right, let's get into some of the strategies from the book, the seven Strategies to Build Resilience. Can you share some of those with us?

Jen Drummond (32:56)

Yeah. I think my biggest one from, like, the book that I have to repeat to myself on a regular basis is big mountains. Metaphorical big mountains take big teams. You know, I think so much of us, like, I have this Everest, like, goal. It's not me climbing Everest. There are so many people that made that goal possible for me, from help at home, help with the kids, to, like, getting food on the mountain and moving tents and oxygen and having support and setting ropes. And, I mean, there's a ton of people involved to be able to climb a Mount Everest. And so for you that are listening, if you have your Everest goal and you're starting to get tired or you want to negotiate with yourself on it, like, oh, I was just being crazy. I don't need to set a goal that big. I want to do this. I want you to, like, just stop for a second instead of negotiating or trying to shake your goal or trying to, like, give yourself an excuse to not achieve your Everest and ask yourself, do I have enough help? Because I think nine times out of 10, it's, we don't have enough help. We don't ask for it. And so we're trying to take on this huge Everest goal by ourselves, and that's not going to happen. Like, you're not going to get to the top unless you have people on your team. And so in the book, I talk about how to ask for help and how to build your team so that you can get to the top of the mountain, and here's some signs that you don't have enough people on it, and that's why you want to quit.

Angie Lee (34:30)

So true. Oh, my gosh, it's so hard to ask for help. Until you do it successfully, and then you're like, what the heck was I waiting for? All right, what's another one of these strategies that you hear from your readers that has helped them?

Jen Drummond (34:41)

I think the concept of acclimatizing. Okay, so it's what happens when you climb a mountain like Mount Everest. I thought you literally went to Everest and then you went from Base Camp to the top and back down to Base Camp, and that just took three weeks. Well, when I got to Everest, I realized you actually climb Mount Everest multiple times because of the lack of oxygen. So you'll get to Base Camp, and then you'll hike up to Camp 1 or Camp 2, and then there's a point where your body cannot go any further. There's just not enough oxygen in the air for how you currently are wired. So you get to that point of failure, and then you go back down to Base Camp, and you sit at Base Camp for about three days. And the stress from that point of failure causes your body to physiologically change, so you're making more red blood cells so that three days later, if you were to climb that same section, you can actually go higher up the mountain, because now you have more red blood cells to operate in the lower oxygenated environment. So you go up to Camp 3, hit a point of failure, come back down, go to Camp 4 until you get to the summit. And so whatever our goal is, if it's an Everest, like, goal, so, like, your biggest one you have, maybe you hit a point of failure. That doesn't mean quit, that doesn't mean stop. That means come back home, come back to the boardroom, look at what you've learned, figure things out. Integrate that learning into who you are so that when you go climb the mountain again, you're acclimatized and you can climb higher. So sometimes you need to climb down to climb back up. And I don't know, we always give ourselves permission to do that.

Angie Lee (36:30)

Well, number one, I didn't know that that's how it worked. Obviously, I've never climbed a mountain, but I had no idea. It's so interesting to think of that parallel to, like, other things in life. And this is what confused me, though, and I'm interested to know your answer on our thoughts on it. But when do you know it isn't time to give up? Because now I'm thinking of, like, relationship. Like, there's so many different lenses you could see this for. Like, how do you know when it is time to call quits on something? On a business, on a Relationship or on a partnership, whatever. Or that. No, maybe I just need to climatize my body and go for it again.

Jen Drummond (37:03)

Okay, so we'll use this analogy, right? Like, you hit this point of failure, and you come back to the boardroom, and you're looking at things, and you're saying, okay, what do I know now? Does this still make sense to go forward? So I'll give you an example of when something didn't make sense for me to go forward. I went on a friend's private plane, and we went shopping. We didn't have to do all that TSA garbage. Like, we got to leave when we wanted to. Like, it was the most romantic, sexy adventure we've ever done. And so I came home. I'm like, I need a plane. This is amazing. I'm gonna go get my pilot's license. So I sign up at the local airport. I start taking pilot classes. I get there, and I have to go through all these rundowns and run ups, and all of a sudden, I realize when I'm in the air, like, 97% of the time, I'm checking for problems, right? And, like, 3% of the time, I actually get to enjoy what I'm doing. Like, oh, isn't this pretty? And look, what we're doing the rest of the time is, are the gauges working? If something went wrong, where would we land? If something went wrong, where would we land? And, like, all this stuff. So I'm like, okay, this isn't quite what I thought it was going to be. And so I'm like, okay, but it's going to be so nice for my kids. So then I go back to the class, and I'm like, hey, I want to take my kids and fly them over our house. So I take two kids to my class. They sit in the back of the plane, and they're like, where's my tv? Like, there isn't one on this plane. They have to go to the bathroom. There's no bathroom on this plane. Mommy's learning to fly. Where are their snacks? I'm like, oh, my gosh, just look at your house. This is amazing, right? Like, and so then we leave that day, and I'm driving home. I'm like, okay, I don't think I can fly this plane and raise my children at the same time, because that didn't work. Every time I come home from this flight, I'm like, all of a sudden having that scan my home environment for bad things that are happening. And that's not a great thing to do when you have seven children because there's always bad things happening, and you need to focus on the things that are going good, not bad. But I don't quit. Like, I'm gonna do this like I said I was. So anyways, I keep doing the lessons, and it's time to take my final exam. And my instructor is like, hey, listen, you need to call your insurance company because today you'll pass your exam. And that changes things. So I call my insurance company. I'm like, hi, I'm getting my pilot's license. I should get it later on today. And then they gave me all my insurance premiums, which are like 7x what they were prior to this pilot's license things, because it's so dangerous that the chances of dying are so much higher. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. My kids are going to be a nightmare on this thing. My insurance premiums go through the roof. I like, I'm not the nicest person for a few hours after the lesson because my mind hasn't shifted into, like, a different gear. Like, this isn't working for us. So I didn't do the final exam, and I walked away from it. And I walked away from it knowing that I checked all the boxes. It wasn't what I originally set it out to be. Like, I knew, like, there was no guilt or shame or, like, hey, I wish I would have completed. And so for us, in a relationship or in a business setting or in personal goals, when you can pull away from the situation and look at it with a rational mind instead of an emotional mind and do, like, the pros and cons. Not every pursuit you're going to take needs to be taken to the top, and that's okay.

Angie Lee (40:24)

Oh, that is so good. And I never knew that story before. And you're such a badass that you were even flying a plane. That is freaking incredible.

Jen Drummond (40:32)

Yeah, it was awesome.

Angie Lee (40:33)

Yeah. You're like, no, you went from life to now she summits the biggest mountains in the world and flies planes. Okay, so tell us, who did you write this book for? Who needs to get this book?

Jen Drummond (40:44)

Yes. So if you are at a spot where you're not sure what you want to do next with your life, maybe you sold a company, maybe you got out of marriage, maybe you launched your kids, and now you're in this space, you're like, hey, what do I want to do with my one precious life? This book's going to be for you. If you're running into a hard time and you're like, hey, I don't know what to do next. This book's for you. If you are, like, going to start a new pursuit and you want to be proactive and be like, oh, this feeling might show up, like the messy middle or the imperfect start or these different pieces. This is going to allow you to know what to look for. So when it shows up, you're like, aha, I have a solution. This is how we overcome.

Angie Lee (41:26)

Okay, the book is break proof. 7 strategies to build resilience and achieve your goals. Where can people find the book and where can they find you?

Jen Drummond (41:33)

Okay, so come to jenn drummond.com. you can buy the book there at Amazon or any retailer. And then if you go to Jen Drummond, you'll be able to see all my social media handles. Follow me on whatever platform's your favorite. Reach out. Say hi and let's connect.

Angie Lee (41:49)

Jen, thank you so much for all the work you're doing to make the world a better place, to help elevate literally yourself and others. And by leading a family of seven and doing it with such chutzpah, that inspires me every time I hear your story or take a look at the work you're doing. I'm just so grateful that to call you a friend. My friend.

Jen Drummond (42:10)

Thank you so much.

Angie Lee (42:11)

All right, guys, until next week, go get the book. Break proof. You are going to love it. Don't lead a meh life when you have a life of purpose, passion and fun ahead of you. Get the book. Until next week. Keep creating your confidence. You'll be. I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

Jen Drummond (42:41)

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

Angie Lee (42:45)

Come on this journey with me.