Podcast Summary: Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan

Confidence Classic: How Exceptional Leaders Map Decisions, Counter Burnout, and Lead Through Crisis

Guest: Dr. Richard Winters, Director of Leadership Development, Mayo Clinic
Release Date: December 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Heather Monahan welcomes Dr. Richard Winters, an emergency physician and leadership specialist from Mayo Clinic, to unpack strategies that exceptional leaders use to navigate uncertainty, make effective group decisions, counter burnout, and guide teams through crisis.

Drawing lessons from healthcare's front lines during COVID-19 and beyond, Dr. Winters distills actionable frameworks for leadership that apply across industries, emphasizing flexible decision-making, group facilitation, and organizational well-being. This episode is richly packed with personal anecdotes, practical advice, and memorable metaphors, making complex leadership dynamics accessible and actionable for listeners at any stage of their career.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adaptive Leadership in Crisis and Calm ([00:49]–[04:43])

• Leadership demands adaptability: The best leaders can switch between command-and-control during crisis and collaborative facilitation during stability.

  • “Our best leaders actually can do both of those. They sense the environment and they evolve and kind of flow with the environment.” — Dr. Richard Winters [04:13]

• During a crisis, quick, gut-driven decisions may be necessary (like in emergency medicine). But in less intense times, effective leaders engage groups to build consensus and shared reality.

2. Decision Mapping: The Cynefin Framework ([04:48]–[06:14], [18:22]–[25:27])

• Dr. Winters introduces the Cynefin framework by David Snowden, which helps classify decisions as clear, complicated, complex, or chaotic, each requiring a different approach.

  • Clear: Best practices, everyone agrees, procedures are set.
  • Complicated: Requires expertise—get the right experts involved.
  • Complex: Disagreement abounds; group dialogue and sense-making are essential.
  • Chaotic: Crisis mode—leaders must act quickly with limited information.

• “It's helpful for us to be sitting in meetings and saying, yeah, I think this is best practice... it's also helpful for us to know there are those times when we're all disagreeing and when the emotions are running high.” — Dr. Richard Winters [19:27]

• Identifying the decision environment allows leaders to apply the right process instead of reacting impulsively.

3. Facilitating Effective Group Decisions ([06:30]–[10:21], [11:37]–[14:29])

• Meeting dynamics matter: Without mindful facilitation, meetings are dominated by loud voices (bullies) while many remain unheard.

  • “Those bullies... I wish I was not speaking up all the time. I can hear myself and I wish I could quiet down.” — Dr. Richard Winters [08:38]
  • "Most people sitting at that table are the ones who are more fearful of speaking up." — Heather Monahan [09:46]

• Effective leaders create processes (like structured agendas or small-group breakouts) to surface diverse perspectives and ensure psychological safety, both in person and virtually.

• Backchannels (side conversations, social media, etc.) occur when people feel unheard, which can fracture organizations unless group dialogue is prioritized.

4. Managing Tradition and Change ([21:01]–[22:42])

• Dr. Winters and Heather discuss the tension between clinging to "best practices" and realizing when approaches are outdated and need to evolve.
  • “Best practices, by definition, are past practice.” — Dr. Richard Winters [21:48]
  • Teams need data and open-mindedness to update traditions without alienating those attached to them.

5. Burnout: Identifying and Counteracting It ([27:48]–[34:31])

• Burnout = emotional exhaustion + cynicism + reduced effectiveness.

  • “Cynicism... you start to combine exhaustion with cynicism. ‘We're never going to make it.’” — Dr. Richard Winters [27:57]

• Individual wellness is important, but organizational structures and processes often drive burnout. Leaders must foster:

  • Purpose alignment
  • Autonomy (voice in decisions)
  • Resourcing (tools/support people need)
  • Personal growth
  • Strong relationships and acceptance of mistakes

• When individuals show signs of burnout, leaders should take a coaching rather than “fixing” approach:

  • “What would it be like, though, if I approached you and said, so, you know, tell me about what's going on? ... It's no longer, am I the expert? It's now you're the expert of the situation.” — Dr. Richard Winters [32:37]

6. Amplifying Engagement and Inclusion ([35:11]–[38:46])

• Engaged employees feel aligned with purpose, autonomy, growth, and being heard.

  • “People will do so much when they feel engaged as part of the organization.” — Dr. Richard Winters [36:28]

• Tactics to increase engagement include:

  • Small-group dialogues to build safety and understanding
  • Cross-departmental interactions
  • Building relationships through social interactions (e.g., dinners between contentious groups)

• Empathy, personal interest, and simple outreach help break down silos and increase connection.

7. Leadership for Everyone & Book Insights ([38:47]–[39:59])

• Dr. Winters’ book, You're the Leader. Now What? equips leaders at all levels with tools to navigate uncertainty, facilitate effective meetings, and move past stagnant decision cycles.
  • “It's for people who are running organizations and they find themselves in these situations where they're not sure what to do ... but it's also for those of us who are sitting in meetings ... nothing is changing. And what is going on?” — Dr. Richard Winters [38:50]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On self-awareness and blind spots:

  • "There's this cartoon... a rhino that's an artist... in each of these paintings ... is this huge rhino horn in the center of it. ... The rhino doesn't realize, that the rhino has painted itself in every single portrait." — Dr. Richard Winters [25:27]

• On balancing leadership styles:

  • “An ineffective leader is gonna be someone who always says, okay, let's get the group together... because there are times you need to make decisions.” — Dr. Richard Winters [22:54]

• On engagement:

  • “Knowing that you make it, having that purpose or that feeling of meaning or inclusion makes all the difference.” — Heather Monahan [36:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Adaptive Leadership in Crisis: [03:20]–[04:43]
• Cynefin Framework & Decision Mapping: [04:48]–[06:14], [18:22]–[25:27]
• Group Decision-Making & Facilitating Meetings: [06:30]–[14:29]
• Tradition vs. Change in Organizations: [21:01]–[22:42]
• Burnout—Recognition & Remedies: [27:48]–[34:31]
• Among Peers and Cross-Group Engagement: [35:11]–[38:46]
• Book Recommendation & Audience: [38:47]–[39:59]

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode offers a masterclass in modern leadership. Dr. Winters and Heather Monahan demystify the complexities of high-stakes decision-making, explain the emotional realities of burnout, and share practical tools to amplify inclusive engagement. Listeners are reminded that leadership is about fostering group intelligence, staying adaptive, and prioritizing organizational health—during crisis and beyond.

Dr. Winters’ book “You’re the Leader. Now What?” is available at all major bookstores and more info can be found at richardwinters.com.

Recommended for: New and seasoned leaders, team members navigating organizational change, and anyone interested in sharpening their decision-making and people skills in uncertain times.