B (3:13)

Thank you so much for having me. Good to hear there's fans out there. That's awesome.

C (3:17)

That's always great, right? To know that people have your back. And so that's what I want to learn a little bit about today, why they thought you were such a great fit for the show. And as I did some digging into your background, it looks like you've had a series of highs and lows, and I was hoping you could give everybody a little bit of insight into what that looked like.

B (3:35)

Yeah, I appreciate that some of the folks that maybe were advocating for me were people I've directly worked with over the years and been very fortunate to have a similar kind of climb through corporate America like you have as well, and being promoted several times. And through that time, you build trust with people as you get to work with them. And I served with a team of six and grew to a team of 20. And now I'm overseeing a sales org of a hundred people. So it hasn't happened overnight. Takes a lot of time, but it's been a fun run. And I think that creates, you know, the more time that you can exceed expectations of your promises, the more trust you're going to create with people.

C (4:13)

Yeah. And not only in sales, but just in general. Trust is really that missing element in so many relationships that bridges that gap between, you know, just knowing of someone and really doing business or partnering with them. I was just having this conversation yesterday, so I'm glad that you brought that up. One of the topics that I know you've spoken on, which is interesting, because most of my male guests Never touch on this. I really want to go down this road because it is such a popular topic these days, is imposter syndrome.

B (4:45)

Yeah. What I found, and maybe this is just me being brutally honest throughout the process, but I think because I've had street credibility in my organization going through the ranks, I started as a BDR.

C (4:56)

For people who don't know what a BDR is. Can you explain that?

B (4:59)

Business development rep or might be known as a sales development rep, but that's a fancy term for cold callers. As I like to tell people that entered the org. I say my first year I made cold calls and cleaned the toilets, which is partially true. And I've always had a lot of confidence in what I was good at. And that was originally cold calling and then I sold for my organization. Then I was a frontline leader and a second line leader and so on and so forth. But I also was never afraid to admit what I didn't know. The real buzzword out in the LinkedIn world is vulnerability. Right. In the last couple of years. And I think I was doing vulnerability before it was cool. It was just my way of not over promising and under delivering. I wasn't going to tell someone I knew something that I didn't know. And the thought of imposter syndrome is simply the feeling that you're unworthy or you don't exist. And everyone has that to some degree. I have that talking to you right now, right. It's like, what can I bring to Heather Monahan's world? So I certainly appreciate the opportunity. But there's also a voice inside of all of us that should encourage us to dampen that. Because when you get that imposter syndrome feeling, it really means you're out of your comfort zone. It means you're doing something you haven't done before. And usually when we're proud of an accomplishment or an experience we had, it was something that was uncomfortable initially and we look back on it going, hey, I wasn't sure if I could do it, but maybe I failed or maybe I succeeded. But either way, you got to give yourself credit for taking the shot.

C (6:23)

Well, just your own journey, right? Starting out as someone jumping into the cold calling world, which P.S. hey, I've been there as well, you know, I'm sure on day one you weren't the best cold caller with the best closing rates, you know, out of everyone, of course.

B (6:39)

And that's part of it is having the thick skin to take the rejection and really being okay with failing. Looking at failure as the opportunity to learn. Right. The cliche is it's not what happens to us, it's how we respond. But that's true in a lot of cases. And you know, sales is a good microcosm of life where you're going to go scrape your knee a little bit and it's how do you, how do you react? And are you going to change your approach next time based upon what you learned? And from that you build confidence from there to approach it differently the next time. And you also figure out that failure is not as scary as people think. Right? People are embracing for oh God, how bad is it going to be? Or the rejection. And once you find out that the show goes on the next day, it gives you a little more perspective to have more confidence to take more risks.

C (7:26)

So true. It's like anything, the more times that you're at bat, the more comfortable you're going to get when you step into the batter's box. It is no different with failure, although I definitely had a very different opinion of it, you know, when I was back in, quote, unquote, corporate America. But I want to jump in a little bit more to the imposter syndrome to hear your thoughts on. My experience with imposter syndrome was I remember I was advocating for myself to be promoted from executive vice president to Chief Revenue officer. And I remember thinking, am I even qualified for this? You know, I don't have a master's. I'm younger back then I was younger than the other people, you know, at the C suite level. I didn't have as many years experience in the company as they did. So I second guessed myself. But there's something probably from the competitive nature of who I am that pushes myself into these situations, even though I don't know if I'm qualified. So there was always that trepidation and fear. What if they actually say yes, then what? And so they ended up saying yes. And I'll tell you, this was a game changing moment for me, Andrew, was when I finally was appointed to the C suite position and my first big, you know, executive meeting as a C suite executive. I realized, wait a minute, this is the biggest scam going. I get paid more, I have more resources, I have more autonomy and control. Wait a minute, it's easier at this level. It truly was. It was actually easier. And it is the biggest scam going. And so that's one thing I want to impart on everybody. I was so wrong. I was overqualified for all the reasons why I thought I wasn't, because I was bringing my unique skill set to this table that needed it, desperately needed it, needed it. And I was actually already doing the work just with a more junior level title. So a lot of this stuff is just, it's not real, it's built up in our minds. Have you seen it that same way?

B (9:14)

Well, yeah, I think you bring up a good point, is the real hard work comes from those that are on the front lines. And I've always kind of living through the lens of gratitude because I was on the front lines for so long. I made cold calls for my company for almost two years before I took a meeting. And then I carried a bag, as we say, which means you're out in the field carrying a quota for three and a half years. And so I know how hard it was. And to your point, those are the people that are really moving the needle once you kind of move up the corporate ladder. You kind of mentioned peeking behind the wizard of Oz the curtain a little bit where it's like, oh, so what do you do here? Kind of a thing. And there's a tremendous amount of responsibility and I don't want to downplay that. But to your point, I think there's other folks that if you keep them engaged and you show that you care about them and you continue to challenge them and invest in them so that they can grow in their career, they're going to be really loyal to you and the leadership. And I think when leadership kind of gets that ivory tower out of touch or they don't understand how hard it is and they're kind of making these assumptive, hey, make more cold calls, do this, do that without that layer of empathy. I think that's when they lose, they lose the trust in the team. And that's something, I mean, I just did a, I did a one on one meeting with one of my 85 reps yesterday that I do monthly. It's hard to scale that. But my biggest fear as I move through the ranks is that I get out of touch with what's going on in the streets. Because I think once you do that, that's a quick way to lose the respect of your team. And you know, in this market, we're an extremely competitive market, people will, people have a freelance mentality, which I think is good. It keeps leadership honest to go. Just like a salesperson goes, what's my unique value prop? I'm asking myself all the time, what's our unique value prop as a leadership team that people want to continue to work here and really comes down to showing that you care and there's incentives and comp and all that stuff, but it's really about an investment quality in I'm going to make you a better seller. Whether you leave here tomorrow or six years from now, you're going to be a better seller because you've been on my team.

C (11:16)

Meet a different guest each week.

A (11:22)

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C (14:57)

I asked you to try to find your passion. The biggest, most epic fails that I saw at the highest levels and companies was when they were detached from reality and they would only see things as numbers on a spreadsheet. Which truly in my opinion is the most epic fail. And you know, you can look at the results as well when leaders like that take over, it is a fail. So to that point, how are you able to. Because you brought up the point. It's tough to scale. I was running marketplaces all around the country and like you, it was so hard to scale. I was on a plane every single week trying to get that one on one FaceTime with people trying to find out what was happening in the streets of Las Vegas differently than what was happening in Philadelphia. Because there are differences, right? And you have to acknowledge that as much as you want to say it's a numbers game game, it truly isn't. And leadership's different in different marketplaces and competitive situations are different.

A (15:48)

Right?

C (15:49)

So as much as we want to say it's one simple strategy, it never truly is. So how do you find ways to keep that personal touch and scale?

B (15:57)

That's a challenge. It's been a challenge as I've moved through. It was easy with six people, it was harder with 20, and it's almost impossible with a hundred. At least on a weekly basis. I think about leveraging My time in larger platforms, but intimate settings. So I did a lunch this Tuesday with our BDR team and there's 12 people that are on the team and they do a Q and A for an hour and, you know, we talk about my career and cold call strategies and all that stuff. It's small enough where they feel like they get to know me, but that's hard to do in a one on one setting. I actually think LinkedIn has created some level of intimacy with me and my sales team. So one thing I've found that's been really interesting and I certainly don't have the audience you have, but I don't see a lot of leaders in corporate America taking risks on LinkedIn or being vulnerable. And once again, I think this comes back to insecurities. Is this, you know, shield of I'm perfect kind of a thing. And I've found, as I've talked about, you know, I have three young kids under the age of 10. I've talked about, you know, alcohol use in corporate America. I've talked about, you know, being let go from an organization. I've talked about things that people maybe would go, I don't know, I don't know if you should talk about that. And I found the, you know, I think I've gotten a. I've gained a lot of traction with kind of doing the opposite of what people have told me in some cases because people feel like I'm a real person. And then, you know, I go on a podcast or do an interview with someone or I meet with someone for the first time. Like I do a lot of interviewing. And the crazy thing about LinkedIn that I didn't have five years ago is because I put out content, people that are interviewing me feel like, you know, just like you. It's like they hear your, you know, your podcast or they see your LinkedIn content, or they've read your books and they feel like they know you before they've met you. Right? So we're kind of scoring points before the game starts. And for me, it's been an invaluable tool for recruiting and leadership and that sort of thing. So once again, it's how do you scale it? But how do you keep it real? And to me, there's still taking the time I focus on what's a meaningful activity I'm going to do. Because just like everyone else, you know, there's 24 hours in the day. I have a busy family, personal life just like everyone else. And I much rather spend time one on one in conversations or in the field or in the office, having meaningful conversations, even if that's just talking life than sitting behind a spreadsheet or refreshing dashboards and barking at people.

C (18:16)

I so agree with you and you're cracking me up. Okay, a couple of things I want to point out, guys that Andrew brought up there I think are super important. Number one, when you're trying to scale and have more of an intimate, real touch point with people to get to know them, to build that trust, it's such a great idea to do what you described, which is bring a lunch group together or a dinner group where you have more real conversations. And maybe it's not just one on one, maybe it's one in 15, right? You're sitting down 15 or 20 or top people. But that is so smart. I actually just did a record a podcast episode about this and about the right strategies, the right questions to ask, to really engage the room, to open it up, make it more emotional and full of gratitude. And I think you are spot on. Right. That is such a smart strategy. If you're listening and you are trying to be more in touch with your teams, definitely try this approach. It works. And I will find out what that other episode is because I never know which week anything is launching and I will put it in the show notes. Super interesting stuff. Okay, so that's number one. I love that approach. And number two, to your point around vulnerability, I very rarely see anyone show up very vulnerable. When people do on LinkedIn, those posts go viral and it's for a reason, right? My most viral post I've ever had to this day, which got millions of views, was the day I got fired and I posted, hey, I've just got fired. If I've ever helped you, I need to hear from you now. I will put a sidebar footnote on this, right? So for me, the day that I decided to take that cover off or that veil of corporate BS and lean into just being the real me, that's when my social media exploded. And yes, you create community so much faster. People completely think they know you. It's incredible. Anyone who isn't forward facing and being a ball and bra on social media, you are missing a huge opportunity. You will regret it. If yesterday was the right time, today's the only time. Get on there and do it now. Now, here's my one caveat. So funny that this actually just happened today. A friend of mine was setting me up and connecting me to someone they wanted me to go out on a date with. And little I never thought about this as much as people know me from a business sense, you know, a transparency sense, somebody that would be knowing that they were going to be potentially taking me out could Google me and start seeing all of my content. And it was the funniest thing to hear someone that was asking me on a date to say, oh, I heard that your feet are smelly, Heather. That's so interesting in one of your talks. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, this is the first time ever that this information is being used in this way. It's actually pretty funny. So 99% of the time, it is amazing to show up with vulnerability on LinkedIn. So thank you so much for bringing that up. All right, talk to me about building confidence in your teams, confidence in your people, not in yourself. But how do you uplift and build confidence within others?

B (21:01)

Yeah. So a lot of who I work with, I would say, is, you know, professionals earlier on in their career, and they might be in their 20s or 30s, and it's usually not their first job, but maybe their second, third sales job. And I think they're always trying to find their ground and their footing. And one of the things that I really focus on is, you know, you can rah rah people and, yeah, you should go congratulate them when they're having success. And, you know, you should give them direction and challenge them when they're not doing what they need to do. That's all part of coaching and leadership. But one of the things that I found that has gained a lot of traction is once someone's kind of establishes their footing is creating a mentor mentee situation where even if they just know a little, teaching someone something they didn't know builds your confidence a lot. So we actually have a formal mentor mentee set up in our organization. So if a brand new seller comes on, they go through a boot camp training, which is eight weeks, but they're also assigned a sales rep that's a mentor. And that mentor doesn't need to be there for 10 years, they can be there six months. But the idea is, once people learn that I just need to know a little more than the next person to be helpful, that helps establish a level of, oh, I can help someone. Right. So there's an opportunity there. I think the other thing that I've really tried to focus on in my leadership career that, that I received early on was, you know, catch them in the act of doing something good. I think people are usually waiting for managers to, you know, yell at them for not, you know, for missing the quota, not making enough calls. And I periodically like to go look at stats or we use technology like Gong, where we can record demos and try to find things that they didn't know. I was looking to say, hey, I thought you did an excellent job here. And I think that gives people the confidence level to go, I didn't know someone was looking over my shoulder, but the fact that they're complimenting me gives me a lot of confidence that I'm doing the right thing. So I think those are simple strategies. But, you know, helping someone with something that they didn't know, especially as you're trying to gain your footing and then from a leadership perspective is complimenting them, catch them in the act of doing something good. I think they're usually waiting to be maybe a little more gun shy of being corrected. And just a pat on the back when it's unexpected goes a long way.

C (23:08)

I love that idea of catching someone doing something good. That is not the norm out there. However, that is why people are advocating for you to be on this show, for sure. All right, share some tips with us around. How do you get up and give a strong presentation when you're not feeling your best or you're feeling uncertain? What are some of the strategies that you lean on to make sure that when you're presenting, when you're actually in there holding a meeting, that you show up and do the best and most powerful job you can do?

B (23:35)

One of the things I like to do that I don't see enough is not just participation with the audience, but I like to reference people in the audience of past things they've done. You know, there's something to. To do a Q and A or go, what do you guys think? And you get people. But I like going, I just saw last week so and so do this. And, you know, so and so does a great job of this. And I think using people's names keep them engaged, but it also shows you're paying attention, you're listening. It's. And it feels good when a leader has acknowledged you, especially if it's something you weren't aware that they were aware of. So it kind of shows that, like, you're keeping an eye on things. The other thing I would say is, I mean, I've never been a big, overly scripted no person. I'm kind of big into that improv aspect, but definitely having some bullet points of what I'm talking about. But I'm big into trying to use humor in a comic relief setting. I Think corporate America is too stuffy in general. I think people take themselves too seriously. I grew up in a blended family of six. I was the fourth and you know, I was always looking for attention. So to me, the comic relief of this feels too serious is good. And I think people want to work in an environment where you can joke about yourself a little bit and not take yourself too seriously. I think that's refreshing and I don't see it enough. And I think when leaders appear out of touch or arrogant, I think it's a very unattractive quality.

C (24:57)

Oh my gosh, it's the worst. And those are always the people that are the most insecure. If you're trying to show up and pretend you're perfect or pretend you're better than others, it's because you actually are suffering so much inside. And I remember, I don't know why people didn't tell us this when we were younger, but I remember when I was younger working for people like that and thinking, oh gosh, they've got all the answers, they've got it together. Cut to a few years later when I pulled that curtain back and I saw, oh no, they're actually the ones that are so scared of what everybody else thinks. So for everyone listening right now, that person that you think is perfect, that you think is so arrogant, know that they are struggling so much more worse than you. Try to have a little empathy or compassion for them because that's going to be a really painful situation to be in. All right, so I know that you mentioned that you're a parent. So how does leading your children and building confidence in your children differ from your teams at work?

B (25:55)

That's a good question. Maybe you can help me. I've tried to implement some of the same sales strategies and leadership strategies on the home front. It's different. I have a 10 year old and 8 year old boys, actually I have a son named Dylan. I think you do too. And I have a three year old, Luna, my little girl. And I've tried to allow them to. They have to be good people. They have chores, they have responsibilities. They got to hold the door for people. There's things that, that are deal breakers for me, but when it comes to sports, activities, musical instruments, hobbies, I really want them to just find what they're passionate about. And I've tried really hard not to push and I think to some degree I've, I set some pressure expectations of what I do in my own personal life, but I don't want them to feel like they have to live up to something. Not say I'm so great, but they've seen me, you know, I've kind of gone through my own transformation the last five years and you know, out of shape and kind of stagnant my life to, you know, becoming a marathon runner and quitting alcohol and doing a bunch of things that they've seen me go through that journey. And I think one of the things that I really want them to do is find out what they're passionate about at an early age. And that could be my 10 year old just said, I don't want to play the violin anymore and I don't want them to quit on things if they committed to it. But we went into this going, let's see if this is the instrument for you and if it's not, then let's, we can find something else. So I'm trying to allow them to find their own way. My, my sales approach was always, I'm not going to hard close people. I'm definitely aggressive and I'll definitely challenge people, but I want people to buy. I don't want them to feel sold. And in my space, I sell to salespeople. And I always think about how I buy myself. I go, yeah, I don't want to be sold. I'm the sales guy. I'm going to, I'm going to sell you kind of a thing. So there's a little reverse psychology. There's a little bit of you want what you can't have to some degree. But in parenting, to me it's, it's about leading by example myself. So my actions speak louder than my words. And they see how I treat my wife. They see how, you know, we were at Mount Rushmore and there was someone with a Vietnam warhead and I just said thank you for our service. And you know, this guy was very complimentary. Oh, enough. People won't say it. And then my 8 year old at the time was asking me why I did what I did, right? So it's, I'm not preaching to him. He's seeing me do things and I'm explaining to him why I carry on. But I didn't say you have to do this right. I just, if he thinks it's a, that's a good way to live your life, then they're going to follow. And I think I've had that same mentality in corporate America too. I just think your actions are always going to speak louder than your words. It's very cliche, but it's powerful in real life and when people say to do things and then they don't back it up with their actions, that's a way to demotivate people.

C (28:35)

Meet a different guest each week.

A (28:42)

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C (32:04)

I asked you to try to find your passion. So you brought up something interesting that you had this big personal transformation, made some very significant changes to your life over the last five years. What was the catalyst for that? And how have you learned from that situation and how can you apply it to when you see other people in challenging situations?

B (32:26)

Yeah, to me, the catalyst was stagnant feeling of life, career health. I thought of myself as a good athlete. I was voted best athlete in my high school class of 360, which you would laugh if you'd meet me because I don't look like anything special. And then I had, you know, I had this moment at the corporate 5K where I'm walking the 5K and, you know, I've just kind of slipped into the Midwestern softball, beer drinking, dad overweight. And, you know, there's just these moments, and I know rock bottom's a dramatic statement, but there's these moments where you kind of look in the mirror and you're like, is this what we become? Is this where we're at? And, you know, I think the really cool thing is there's a. There's a victim mentality out there in the world, and there's whoever's president, you know, dictates my life or taxes or policy or whatever. And I just think a lot of that is bullshit. I think a lot of it is based upon your own decision making and what you want to make of your life. And, you know, it started with running. So I hadn't ran in years, and about 18 months after that 5K, I ran a full marathon. And that was really empowering. And, you know, alcohol was part of the story as well. And to me, it was just more of a habitual. You come home, you drink three or four beers. That's what we do in the Midwest. I live in Milwaukee, so that's kind of the prototypical, you know, changing that cycle of my life. And that habit has just opened up a lot in terms of not only productivity, but emotions of life. You know, I found that you got to embrace life, the good and the bad. And if we're numbing it every day, we're actually kind of cheating ourselves a little bit. And then in addition to that, professionally speaking, I had this climb through the corporate ranks and I had a great story, but I was kind of plateauing. I was on my same regional vice president role for three and a half years and I loved what I did and I loved the people, but I was kind of asleep at the wheel in the sense that it was so easy in some ways. And I left the organization last year about this time and I went and ran 100% sales. Org somewhere else. And about six months after that, I got an opportunity to come back into my dream role with the organization that grew up in. And I think there's some market validation that happened that, oh shit, maybe Andrew Metz is good enough to run 100 person sales organization. This other company thinks. But you learn a lot about yourself when you go and do hard things. And really the fun is just in that journey and that next checkpoint that you receive. And I remember the day I ran six miles. Wow, I ran six miles. And I remember my first half marathon. And you know, all those things. It also creates an abundance mindset to go, well, what else can I do? And I'm 38 years old. I still say I'm on the first half of my career. I think I'm just getting started. And you know, I look at someone like you, Heather. To be honest, I found your story so inspirational. And the first time I heard of you was when you talked to Gary Vee. And I can sense in your conversation that it was one of those moments where it was a milestone, right? You probably look back on that fondly to go, here we are, you know, talking to someone that maybe I didn't think I was going to talk to. And I maybe heard that interview with you and Gary Vee three years ago. And here I am talking to you, right? So it just feels so good to dream and not accept just where you're at today as the final destination. But continue to push yourself. And look, it's going to be hard. People are going to doubt you, you're going to doubt yourself. People are going to roll their eyes and think it's dumb. I mean, I had people roll their eyes and think it was dumb that I was doing LinkedIn content two years ago, three years ago with 1500, you know, connections. It was like nothing. And you could still say my audience is nothing, but I don't really give a shit. You know, it's, it's therapeutic for me. It means something to the audience I have. And at the end of the day, we write more of our own story than we realize. But no one's gonna do it for you. You gotta go do it for yourself.

C (36:19)

Well, one of the big takeaways that I just got from what you shared is it all starts with one thing for you. It started with saying, okay, I walked this corporate 5K. That's embarrassing. I'm gonna try to run tomorrow, starting with the running. So for everyone listening right now, just figure out one thing. Maybe it's one thing that you used to have incorporated in your life that was positive, brought you joy, and somehow along the way, you dropped it. I remember at the end of last year, I had just let so much, so many things pile up around my house. I had a new book coming out. I had boxes of books everywhere, papers everywhere. I had let go of staying disciplined around organization. And at the beginning of the year, I cleared this entire house out. And mentally I felt so much better. Was it easy? No. Was it exhausting? Yes. Annoying? Yeah. Frustrating. I was. All the feelings, all the not great feelings. But I knew that I would feel better if I could, if and when I could get it back to the way I felt proud about it. Right. So it's about picking up that first box or picking up those first papers or putting those sneakers on and going out for the run. Challenge yourself to do one thing today to get started so you can start on a. On a way to a better path and quickly. On the Gary B. Note. Yes. That was huge. I'll never forget when I got the calendar invite, but I will say this. That man talked over me so much during that interview, it drove me cuckoo and I need to go back on that show. But I appreciate you saying that. Andrew. Where can people find you? Clearly you know a lot about leadership. Leading yourself, leading your family, leading your team. Where can people get your content? Where. Where can they get more from you?

B (37:45)

Uh, the main place I Live is LinkedIn. Andrew Metz. M E T Z. You can find me on there. And I love interacting with people when possible. Scalability is a problem, but. But at the end of the day, love to. Love to see people there and interact with them. There's.

C (37:59)

Well, Andrew, thank you so much for showing up as such a genuine leader. Thanks for leading for your team. And now I see why they advocate for you guys. Follow Andrew on LinkedIn and until next week, keep creating your confidence. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

B (38:27)

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

C (38:31)

Come on this journey with me.