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Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: You Can Be REMARKABLE: The Guide To Growth, Grit, & Grace with Guy Kawasaki Chief Evangelist of Canva & Remarkable People Podcast Creator
00:56:38
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- [00:00]
Guy Kawasaki
Being remarkable is not easy. If it was, there would be more remarkable people, quite frankly. Right. So the way to be remarkable is not to decide to be remarkable. The way to be remarkable is decide to make the world a better place. So this could be as a teacher, as a coach, as a mentor, as a parent. You could also make the case. You could make the world a better place by turning your own life around.
- [00:30]
Heather Monahan
Come on this journey with me each.
- [00:32]
Unknown
Week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.
- [00:39]
Guy Kawasaki
Fasten your seatbelts. I'm ready for my closeup.
- [00:42]
Unknown
Tell me, have you been enjoying these new bonus Confidence classics episodes we've been dropping on you every week? We've literally hundreds of episodes for you to listen to. So these bonuses are a great way to help you find the ones you may have already missed. I hope you love this one as much as I do. Meet a different guest each week.
- [01:05]
Heather Monahan
I'm so glad you're back here with us this week. Okay. You're going to be as excited as I am for our guest today. Guy Kawasaki is the chief evangelist of Canva and host of the Remarkable People podcast. So he's a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation, Mercedes Benz brand ambassador. I bet you're driving a nice ride. And special assistant to the Motorola division of Google. Kawasaki has a BA from Stanford University, an MBA from ucla, and honorary doctorate from Babson College back in my hood. He lives in Watsonville, California, and he is with us today. Guy, thank you so much for being here today.
- [01:43]
Guy Kawasaki
Yes, thank you. But if I could just issue a couple corrections there that.
- [01:49]
Heather Monahan
Yes, please.
- [01:50]
Guy Kawasaki
I am no longer on the board of trustees of Wikipedia. You roll off those things. And I am no longer a brand ambassador for Mercedes. They kind of did not continue that program, although I still have one. And actually I have one on order, too. I was an advisor to the president of the Motorola division of Google, but that was sold off. So what I am is I am the chief evangelist of Canva. I'm the host of the Remarkable People podcast, and I do live in Watsonville, and I love to surf. So that's the three most important things.
- [02:32]
Heather Monahan
And he's a really cool guy. Totally down to earth. And you never know, Guy, you know this. With as many people as you interview, you never know what someone's really gonna be like when you first meet them. And I just want to say how refreshing it is to see how close cool you are. You're just like a regular Guy, So thank you for being so nice.
- [02:50]
Guy Kawasaki
Well, I mean, I think that as I write about, I think that people go through, like, if they do it and they're lucky, they go through three phases. There's the growth phase, where you're learning new skills and embracing new things. There's the grit phase, where you're paying the price and you're working hard. And there's the grace phase. And I hope that I'm in the grace phase. And so I being a podcaster, I don't know about you, but we get about 10 requests a day to be on our podcast. And so I'm rejecting hundreds of people every year. So I know that the fact that I'm on your podcast, I'm at least one or two of the most important people that sent you a request of the 10 that day. So that means you're doing me a favor and it's a privilege and an honor.
- [03:49]
Heather Monahan
Well, thank you so much for having that perspective. All right, Guy, tell us you just brought up your new book. First of all, think Remarkable. Wanted to mention, because you just brought up growth, Grit, and grace, the three sections of the book. Can you elaborate a little bit on the idea that we have this growth, grit, and grace phases if we're lucky?
- [04:09]
Guy Kawasaki
Yeah. I think that based on my interviews with these 200 remarkable people over the past four years, and when I say remarkable, I truly do mean remarkable. These are people like Jane Goodall, Stacy Abrams, Margaret Atwood, Angela Duckworth, was Stephen WOLOM the youngest MacArthur fellow, know over and over again. And so what I noticed is this common pattern of you don't get to be remarkable unless you have a growth mindset. People with fixed mindsets, they believe that, you know, they are what they are. They cannot embrace new subjects, new topics. The skills they have are the skills they'll all ever have. They can't make it better and it won't get worse. And that's just not true of remarkable people. Remarkable people are always learning and trying and, you know, working hard. Which leads us to the second phase, because, I mean, even if you're willing to learn a new sport or a new subject, it's not going to be easy. I took up surfing at 60, and I've had to dedicate a fair bit, one might say, obsessive portion of my life to become a surfer. So you don't just wake up one day and say, I'm going to be a musician, and it magically happens. That's the grit phase. And finally, the grace phase is where you decide that it's not about you anymore. It's about making a mark and making the world a better place. And for me, when I die, I want people to say, you know, guy empowered me. He empowered me with his book, with his podcast, with his speaking, with his investing, with his advising. So just, if members of your audience are used to reading self help books, this is not a self help book. Like, I think a lot of self help books. You know, the whole purpose is to get you to come to my conference, right? And, you know, we're going to be at the Miami Ritz Carlton, and for $5,000 in 48 hours, I'm going to teach you how to be remarkable. And in the general session, you know, you, the visionary guru, you walk out and you get a standing ovation and you tell people, oh, say to the person on your right, you're remarkable. And then look to your left and tell that person you're remarkable. And, like, stand up and raise your hands because we're all remarkable. That ain't happening. I'm not that kind of guy. Okay? This book is not, you know, the guy's way. This is my analysis of 200 remarkable people filtered through 40 years of frontline tech experience. So it's not like I'm a 22 year old, you know, millennial wannabe that says, oh, I met all these famous people. Let me tell you what I Learned, because at 22, I've already created a remarkable track record. Like, give me a break.
- [07:27]
Heather Monahan
Yeah, we see a lot of those people on social media, don't we?
- [07:30]
Guy Kawasaki
Oh, my God. I mean, were you ever on Clubhouse?
- [07:34]
Heather Monahan
Yeah, of course. Yes.
- [07:35]
Guy Kawasaki
I mean, holy shit, Heather. On Clubhouse, every conversation was, I'm 25 years old. I've already built up a really successful practice. If you click on the link in my profile, you'll get $200 off my $1,000 course on how to make money in social media. I mean, you know, there's a lot of reasons for the death of or I don't know if it's dead yet for the demise of Clubhouse, But I swear, 90% of the conversations were people talking about how great they were and how you should click on their link for their online conference.
- [08:17]
Unknown
Meet a different guest each week.
- [08:24]
Heather Monahan
Ready.
- [08:24]
Unknown
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- [11:06]
Heather Monahan
Okay, you bring up an interesting point which I wasn't even thinking we were going to get into, but now I'm super curious to get into it based upon the world that we live in and everyone listening to this know we all know people. You know there's people with fake Profiles, fake stories, or there are a lot of question marks. I'll leave it at that. Around them, you are the antithesis of this. Your career, for anyone who doesn't know, hasn't said ufology or isn't familiar with your work, I mean, is literally as we rattled off these incredible companies that you have been at the C suite level of. Let's start with a little bit of your background. For those people who aren't familiar, what is a chief evangelist of Apple and can you share that? You're in the meetings with Steve Jobs, rolling out these massive campaigns and what was that like?
- [11:53]
Guy Kawasaki
Yeah, well, you can contact any of the schools that I said I attended to see that I really attended them. That's number one, including UC Davis Law School where I quit after two weeks.
- [12:09]
Heather Monahan
I did not know that.
- [12:10]
Guy Kawasaki
Oh yeah, I went to law school for two weeks and couldn't take it, so I quit. You know, a lot of people cover that up on their resume by they say they attended as opposed to graduated. So I'm from Honolulu, Hawaii, a lower income part of Honolulu. Though I, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to paint this picture of how I overcame crushing poverty and you know, lifted myself up by my bootstraps. I came from a lower income family, but my parents made a lot of sacrifices so that I could get a great education. So don't feel sorry for me. I've had a charmed life. And a sixth grade teacher convinced my parents to take me out of the public school system in Hawaii, put me into the private school system because she said I had too much potential. Thank you God for that teacher. Thank you God that my parents listened to her. That enabled me to get into a private school in Hawaii called Iolani. At Iolani I cannot tell you why, but for some reason I applied to Stanford. I also cannot tell you why how the hell I got into Stanford. But I got in and so I went to Stanford. And from Hawaii to Stanford it was a religious experience. Now Hawaii is a wonderful place and you know, all that, don't get me wrong, but in Hawaii your sort of horizons are limited by, well, if I'm really successful, I'll run the Sears Roebuck or I'll run the, you know, Hilton Hawaiian Village Hotel or something. No, I'm not saying that that's not remarkable accomplishments. It takes something to get to that level. But there's none of the sort of growth of Hewlett Packard or Apple or Facebook or Google in Hawaii. So I get off this airplane in sfo, you get in a van, you go to Stanford. This is like the Holy land. I mean, this is like, thank you, God, the scales are removed from my eyes. And at Stanford I met someone and we became very good friends. And years later he hired me into Apple, into the Macintosh division. And just so you know, I majored in psych because that was the easiest major I could find. Right. If you looked at my background on paper, thank God that, you know, it wasn't AI analyzing my resume back then. It would say psych major, two week dropout from UC Davis. And at the time I was more or less in the jewelry business, the jewelry manufacturing business, or schlepping diamond gold. You know, you wouldn't say, oh, perfectly qualified. You know, let's bet Macintosh software on this. Psychology major from the jewelry business. So I'm living proof that nepotism can have positive results. So I worked at Apple as a software evangelist convincing people to create Mac products. I left, I started some tech startups, I returned to Apple as Apple's chief evangelist. Then I left again and I started, you know, other companies. Writer, speaker. And then Canva reached out to me. Do you use Canva?
- [15:31]
Heather Monahan
Yes.
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Guy Kawasaki
Yeah. So 10 years ago, Canva sends me a tweet saying, we notice you use Canva. We're going to be in the Bay Area soon, we'd love to get together. So I talked to the person doing my social media with me and I say, isn't this the product you use to create graphics for our tweets? And she said, yes. And I said, well, do you like them? And she said yes. I said, do you think I should help them? And she said yes. So I met with them and one thing led to another and now, you know, thank you, God for Canva. And this is my 16th book, which I've said 15 times. This is my last book.
- [16:14]
Heather Monahan
You had no intention of writing a second book?
- [16:17]
Guy Kawasaki
No. My very first book was called the Macintosh Way and it explained the Macintosh division, what we were trying to do, what we learned from Steve. And at that point I said, okay, I wrote down everything I possibly can know. That's it, end of writing career. And I guess in a sense writing 16 books is really very good evidence of a growth mindset because you cannot write 16 books of the same subject.
- [16:53]
Heather Monahan
No, you definitely can't. What led you to write the 16?
- [16:56]
Guy Kawasaki
We're going to get real transparent.
- [16:59]
Heather Monahan
Let's do it.
- [17:00]
Guy Kawasaki
So there's two theories. One theory is the Polish PR answer. The other theory is, you know, more of like what's realistic? So I'll give you a smattering of both. At 69 years old, having done this podcast for four years, I really did interview remarkable people. I would put my guest list up against anybody's podcast. Npr, Joe Rogan, anybody. I have just as good, if not better, a guest list. And I realized that, man, you know, Guy, you have encountered a lot of wisdom, a lot of insights, and a lot of value. But let's face it, you know, am I going to tell people, oh, go listen to 200 episodes, one hour each, and you'll, you know, you'll hear what I have. And so I figured out that I have all this knowledge and I can filter it down even more. So in a sense, I have this moral obligation to take the lesson of Jane Goodall or Angela Duckworth or Carol Dweck or Stephen Wolfram or Was and put it in a package that everybody can digest and use so that they can make a difference and be remarkable. So that's kind of the high road. The lower road answer is, you know what? There's royalty. So it's a combination of both. But as I say, when I'm gone, I want people to say, I, you know, I read, think remarkable, and it just changed my life and it helped me make a difference, and I owe some of my success to Guy. That would be a good legacy.
- [18:49]
Heather Monahan
Yeah, that's part of your book, and it's well said. It's something that I certainly hadn't realized in my life until the last couple of years. So I'm sure many people like me will benefit from that portion of the book. Let's talk about this. You mentioned that you've had these incredible guests, literally some of the best guests that are available for any podcast. I would love to have the roster of guests you've had. How were you able to land? These aren't the people that are necessarily reaching out to you ten times a day. I know that, my friend. So how did you land this many remarks?
- [19:24]
Guy Kawasaki
Okay, well, Steve Jobs had a very famous Stanford commencement address in which one of the key messages he had is, you can only connect the dots looking backwards. Right. So when you're 18 and you major in English, it's hard to say, okay, I was thinking I majored in English because when I'm 69, I'm going to write a book. Right. I mean, nobody can think like that. I'll give you the dots. So this sixth grade teacher convinces my parents to put me into this private prep school. In the private prep school, I Did well enough to get to Stanford. At Stanford, I meet this guy, Mike Boich. Mike Boich is the guy that eventually hired me into the Macintosh division. In the Mac, despite my lack of qualifications in the Macintosh division, I do well enough that I'm very, very visible. And I'm tied. My reputation is tied to the Macintosh and Apple. I'm kind of living proof, Heather, that if you do one thing right in your life, you can coast the rest of your life. But that's a different. So now lots of people know about me because lots of people use Macintosh. And in particular, I think it's the creative, innovative, artistic people who use Macintosh because you don't buy a Macintosh to crank Excel spreadsheets. So one day I get this email out of the blue, and it's the director of the TEDx Palo Alto, and she says, I have Jane Goodall coming in for a TEDx, and I'm looking for a moderator. She's looking for a moderator. She says, you know, you don't know me, Guy, but I know you because I use a Macintosh. So would you like to moderate Jane Goodall on TEDx? It's like, be still my heart. You're telling me I can interview the Jane Goodall for TEDx? Like, pinch me.
- [21:26]
Heather Monahan
Is this a rhetorical question?
- [21:28]
Unknown
Yes.
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Heather Monahan
I'm all in.
- [21:30]
Guy Kawasaki
Yeah, right. So I cancel a paid speech. Cost me a lot of money. But, man, you know, at the end of my life, am I gonna say, you know, guy, if you had only made one more speech, you would have been happy, or are you gonna say, I got to interview Jane Goodall. You don't need to be too smart to figure out the answer to that question. So I interview Jane Goodall. We become deep friends. To this day, we're close friends. And so when I start my podcast, she's my first guest. All right, so now, I don't know about you, but the way I select what podcast I agree to be on, the first question is, who else have you had? I mean, if all you have is Joe Blow from Blow Consulting, who wrote the Blow Away, you're probably not going to go on that podcast, right?
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Heather Monahan
Probably not.
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Guy Kawasaki
You know, so when I'm asking Stacey Abrams or I am asking Margaret Atwood or Stephen wolfram or Neil DeGrasse Tyson, please come on my podcast, the first thing they ask, maybe they don't ask it because. But I know they're thinking it is, who the hell else has been on your podcast? To which I say, well, maybe you've heard of some of my guests. Like Jane Goodall. And guess what? Nobody ever says either to me or to themselves, why should I go? On his podcast, he has losers like Jane Goodall, people you never heard of. So once you have Jane Goodall, then you get Margaret at Wood, then you get Was, then you get Bob Cialdini, then you get David Aker, and guess what? It gets easier and easier, and pretty soon you are buying. You're not selling.
- [23:21]
Heather Monahan
Right? You've got people now that are so attracted to you, you're able to decline and. Or say yes to. Yeah, but it started out like you said. You had to get that big name first. And that came from such a serendipitous moment, I guess not really, because you had already built your name up at Macintosh. At Apple, you were known. That's how you got that door open for you, basically.
- [23:43]
Guy Kawasaki
But, you know, can I tell you that I purposely worked at the Macintosh division because I knew that someday I was going to start a podcast and people would have to have heard of me. So they would say, yes.
- [23:56]
Heather Monahan
No, we know that is not.
- [23:58]
Guy Kawasaki
I'm that smart. God bless you, but it ain't true. And I think there's, like, an important lesson here that I kind of believe you should default to yes. So you should always say yes. You should help people, because you just never know. I would also like to clarify one point. So I've been dropping all these big names, and I know I've been dropping these big names. It's a marketing ploy, right? But I just want you to know that being in my book or being on my podcast, it's not because you're rich or you're famous. It's because you're remarkable. So the big names I dropped are people who are remarkable at an extreme. If some billionaire who ran a hedge fund asked to be on my podcast, the answer would be no. Because I don't give a shit that you have figured out financial arbitrage and you've made billions of dollars because you have not made the world a better place. You've made your world a better place, but you haven't made the world a better place. And so I've been dropping all these big names, but I can also drop names of people most of you would never heard of. A high school teacher in Rogue River, Oregon, a guy who is now a respiratory therapist. He grew up in the projects in Brooklyn, and both his parents were crack addicts. I've had Halim Flowers, who's one of the hottest young artists in America today. You know, he's the next Jean Michelle Basquat. He was sentenced at 16 to 44 years of prison for being an accomplice to a murder. Six years. He got out early and now he's one of the best artists. You know, most of you have not heard of him. You will hear of him, but he is remarkable. I have another woman who was smuggled across the US Border from San Diego as a baby. She lives in a house with 15 other relatives, and now she's working for Adobe as a middle manager. You know what? I think that's remarkable. On the other hand, you know, it's not like I have hedge fund billionaires, trust fund babies. None of those. They don't qualify.
- [26:22]
Heather Monahan
Interesting point. There's a very dynamic cross section of these remarkable people from very different backgrounds, very different success stories in the podcast and that you utilize in the book. What themes did you pull or can you share with us that you've learned from these various remarkable people?
- [26:39]
Guy Kawasaki
Well, in a sense, we've been talking about this the whole time, right? Because the book is based on growth, grit, and grace. And that's what I learned from him. I would be hard pressed to think of somebody who has more grace and graciousness than Jane Goodall. That's what I learned. And this is A sample of 200 people, highly selected. It's not scientific in the sense that I took a random sample of people and I know I waited for all the factors and then I gave them objective tests so that they pass. You know, it's not like Mensa, where if you got an iq, you're in. Right? So this is subjectivity, self selection, a lot of things. On the other hand, there is a lot to learn from these people, and I just want that to get out in a form that people can easily gain access to. Now, my podcast is free. You can download all 200 episodes, but that is literally 200 hours of listening. You can read my book. My book is less than 200 pages, and you could read it in probably two or three hours. And that's how it should be. This is not the Chicago Manual of style. That's 700 pages. This is not the Warren piece of self help, okay? This is more like how to Be Remarkable for Dummies. I mean, I want this to be quick, part of making a difference and part of being remarkable. You can only read and study so much. At some point, you just have to do so. I don't want you to become a reader. I want you to just grab the information and go.
- [28:29]
Unknown
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- [29:56]
Heather Monahan
You know, one of the things that you talk about in the book is surrounding yourself with stories and access to stories and, or people where they've overcome adversity, they've gone through difficult times and you're able to apply that back to your life. Can you tell us about some of your favorite stories of people that have overcome adversity?
- [30:14]
Guy Kawasaki
I already talked about the guy who had two crack addict parents. I talked about the guy who was in prison for 20 something years, another woman. And just FYI, if you're a woman listening to this and you're thinking, oh, this is a typical Silicon Valley tech bro. And when you look at my podcast, you're going to say, oh, it's like 90% men and 10% women. I hate to disappoint you, but if you look at my podcast, it's probably 60 or 70% women and 30 or 40% men. It's heavily should just name my podcast Remarkable Women, but that's a different discussion. So one of the remarkable women, rare.
- [30:57]
Heather Monahan
In the tech world to have any women at all. So thank you for, for doing that.
- [31:01]
Guy Kawasaki
I mean, okay, we could really go down a deep dark hole here, but I think that men have been screwing it up for now, 20, 24 years, and I think we should give women a chance. I think like, you know, I want the Angela Merkels and the Stacey Abrams and What's her name from New Zealand? Jacinda Ahern or, you know, Melanie Perkins from Canva. I want women to run the world because men have proven that they are incompetent and cannot do it. So now I just lost all the male readers listening to this, but maybe they'll buy the book to give to their daughters. Okay, Anyway, the woman's name is Andrea LYTO Pete. And 10 years ago, she was diagnosed with ALS. Those of you not familiar with ALS, typically you die after two years. So she's lived eight years longer than expected. And when she got diagnosed, she decided that she was going to complete a marathon in all 50 states with ALS. Now she started running. She ended up in a recumbent bike, but she did do it. And I look at that and I say, you know, that is remarkable. It's remarkable she's still alive. It's remarkable that she went through all the effort and time and expense to go to 50 states and participated all this and overcome barriers. Like, one of the best stories in the book is the 50th marathon that she wanted to run was the Boston Marathon, okay? And the Boston Athletic Group, or whatever its name, rejected her application. And they said, well, we have categories for people who have, you know, wheelchairs, and we have people who have this and we have people who have that and these kind of, you know, issues and disabilities. But we don't have a category for people on recumbent bikes. So you cannot run or bike the Boston Marathon. Like, what the hell? Wrap your mind around that, right? So now that's a good enough story about overcoming resistance, but it gets better. So what she did is she and her Team Drea, her name is Andrea. So Team Drea, small crew of volunteer, they get to Boston the day before the race, and she runs the race by herself. How can it get better? I mean, seriously, how can it get better than that? Sticking it to the man. I love that story.
- [33:58]
Heather Monahan
Incredible. And when you surround yourself with stories by inspiring people like that, there's no doubt that you feel inspired. And that's the beauty of Think Remarkable. The book or the podcast is to continually immerse yourself in this way of thinking for everyone that's listening. What's one of the first steps they should take if they want to get on a path to be remarkable?
- [34:20]
Guy Kawasaki
Well, the first path is to build the foundation. I first want you to understand that, as I said, this is not a self help book. So this is not about instant success, how to make yourself remarkable in 10 easy steps. Because being Remarkable is not easy. If it was, there would be more remarkable people, quite frankly. Right? So the way to be remarkable is not to decide to be remarkable. The way to be remarkable is decide to make the world a better place. So this could be as a teacher, as a coach, as a mentor, as a parent. You could also make the case you could make the world a better place by turning your own life around. There are people in the book and podcast you've never heard of because they impacted, in terms of sheer numbers, very few people. But what they did was remarkable. And so you have to get it in your brain that this is not about putting lipstick on a pig. To get a prettier pig. You cannot start with the pig. You have to start with, how can I make the world a better place? How can I make one person's life better, or a team, or a classroom, or my kids, whatever it is. And I would make the case that if you do make a difference, people will have no choice but to consider you remarkable. So this is not chicken or egg. You know, I'm remarkable, therefore people call me remarkable because I can make a difference. The order is make a difference. This book is how to make a difference. And guess what? Hallelujah. You make a difference, people will think you're remarkable. That's how you do it.
- [36:12]
Heather Monahan
Well, I mean, chapter four sums it up. Do good shit. So keeping it basic. And thank you for putting it right between our eyes. And you are so right. When did you figure out in your life the importance of making the world a better place?
- [36:27]
Guy Kawasaki
This is a question that is so open to abuse. Well, I love the expression there. I mean, in a sense, know that Sandra Bullock movie where she was running for Miss America? And then in Miss America, there's usually this place where there's the impromptu answer a question part, right? It's like, so what are your goals, you know, or how do you want to contribute or whatever? And everybody, the whole parody of the movie was, she's up there, she's saying, well, you know, I want to end climate change, or I want to foster education, or I want everybody to have health care or clean water or all that. And I. I understand that, but this is about, like, first, do good, and everything else follows. If you don't do good, then, you know, you may be just putting lipstick on a pig and you still end up with a pig.
- [37:25]
Heather Monahan
I mean, it's so true. It's so refreshing to see this be the focal point. And it's funny, for me now, at 49, I've learned the last couple years. The more I focus on my business, my activities, what I'm doing on improving the world and things at a larger scale than myself and just my finances, the more my finances benefit from it. So it's an interesting understanding that the more you do good, the more good comes back to you in ways that you could never expect. I know that you've seen that in your life.
- [37:56]
Guy Kawasaki
Oh, yeah, Listen. I think that the universe has a karmic scoreboard, and someplace, somewhere, God or whatever you want, AI, whatever it is, but she is keeping track. And there's no scientific proof of karma. Okay? Some things you just need to believe to see. But I believe there's a karmic scoreboard. The Japanese have this concept called bachi. And bachi means that, you know, when you do something bad, guess what? It's going to come back to haunt you. And I believe that. And I'm not talking about just, you know, creating genocides. I'm talking about, you know, when you throw your litter out the window when you're driving on the street, you're gonna get bocce. Something is gonna happen. You. Your car is gonna get a flat tire or somebody's gonna back up into you. Something is gonna happen. So I'm a big believer in bocce, so I try to never, ever take any chances.
- [39:01]
Heather Monahan
It's a great way. When you are, for everyone, listening, when you're at an impasse and thinking, what should I do right now in this instant? Ask yourself that question. If this is going to come back to me, well, I like how it comes back to me. And I just played this through with my son yesterday. He's part of a varsity team and a JV team. His younger guys were saying, should we go to this practice or not? We're either going to do it together or not. And then he stayed up late. He said, what if I just go in the morning and I'm the only one and I'm going to get elevated? I said, interesting question. I said, how would you feel if your friends did that to you? And he said, well, horrible. It would feel horrible, Mom. I said, then what's your answer? He said, I can't do that to them. And I think so often we just have to ask ourselves that simple question. Do you want the bocce or not?
- [39:45]
Guy Kawasaki
Well, I mean, it's. You could live your life just worried about bocce and the golden rule. If you just did those two things, you'd probably be okay.
- [39:55]
Heather Monahan
You would all be okay. All right, one of the chapters that caught my attention, also because you sent me some seeds is plant many seeds. And I'm so curious about this. If you could share a little bit with everybody listening.
- [40:09]
Guy Kawasaki
Okay. What Heather's talking about is the people who got the manuscript, they also got some acorns. And believe it or not, I bet no author has ever said, your acorns before. I was.
- [40:23]
Heather Monahan
I was like, what does this even mean? It was so confusing when I opened it.
- [40:27]
Guy Kawasaki
Okay, so not only were are they acorns, but I promise you, I personally collected those acorns. There is a street in Los Gatos, California, where, for some reason, the oak trees there, they really put out a lot of acorns. So I spent an afternoon picking up acorns, and they probably thought, who is this dementia Asian picking up acorns? Like, I just confirmed many Asian stereotypes for people that they getting those acorns. So now people are wondering, guy, what the hell are you talking about? Well, acorns grow up to be gigantic oak. And oak is one of the most beautiful trees, not just aesthetically, but an oak creates an ecosystem of insects and birds, and, you know, they provide shade, and they last forever. And so we bought a house, and it was surrounded by eucalyptus trees. The problem with eucalyptus trees is that they burn really well, and they use a lot of water. They don't have a good root structure, so they fall over. So eucalyptus trees burn. Fall over, and use your water. These are not three good qualities. I hired somebody to cut a lot of these eucalyptus trees, and then I went on a mission to return native species to this hill because eucalyptus was brought from Australia. I love Australia. If you're an Australian, because it's Canva. I have a cochlear implant because I'm deaf. That's from Australia. I use an external monitor called espresso. That's from Australia. When I podcast, I use road mixer. That's from Australia. So I love Australia. But you should not have sent the eucalyptus trees. So, anyway, so now I got to figure out, how do I get native oaks on this hill? And all the reading I do, it says, you know what? You can go and you can buy these saplings and you can plant them. But a much better way to grow oak trees is you start with the acorn. And apparently, and we're gonna find out. If you start with the acorn, it puts down a stronger root system. So after a few years, it will catch up to the sapling and pass it. I hope I'm alive to see this happen. But anyway, So I go and I gather these acorns. And then the first thing you learn is you got to throw all the acorns into the water, because the ones that sink are good. The ones that float are dead. So you throw away all the ones that float, and then you take all the sinkers and you put them in a tray and you cover it with a cloth or something, and you keep it damp in your refrigerator for two or three months because you need to simulate winter because that's what makes it germinate, okay? So for a long time, my wife was wondering, what the hell is this tray of stuff in our refrigerator? So then after two or three months, you plant them. And listen, you have to plant, like, dozens and dozens. I planted probably, probably about 50 or 60 to get five or 10 seedlings. And it's not clear that those seedlings will be saplings. And it's not clear that those saplings will be oak trees. And as I was thinking about this whole process, you know, I came to the conclusion this is a great metaphor for life, right? You gotta gather a lot of seeds, you gotta sample. You gotta gather a lot of experiences. You put them under stress. Some sink, some float. You throw the dead floaters away. You plant the ones that have potential. Some of them actually seed. Then you take care of those. You water them, you fertilize them, you make sure the deer don't eat them. And if you're patient, and if you're lucky, in 10 or 15 years, maybe I will sit under the shade of what used to be acorns. But let's say I die. So this is another interesting, you know, thing. You have to come to grips with that. In fact, I realized that I am planting acorns that I will probably never sit under their shade. So you're thinking for your grandchildren, probably not even your children, your grandchildren. And so when you have a perspective that you're thinking for your grandchildren, it kind of changes everything, right? It's not about me, me, me, me, me, me, me. You know, when am I getting my reward, my bigger house, my Mercedes? And it's not even like, what am I going to give to my kids. It's what am I going to leave for my grandkids? And, you know, when you have that kind of reflection and thought, I have to say, it really impacts how you think.
- [45:42]
Unknown
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- [48:33]
Heather Monahan
Thank goodness that you just explained that for us Because I struggle with patience. It's definitely one of my weaknesses in life. And I know how important and powerful it is to be patient. And as you walked us through that when you brought up the grandchildren and it suddenly came together, that's where I have to shift my focus so that I can find patients in those long windows.
- [48:54]
Guy Kawasaki
Well, I mean, this is. First of all, if you ask Madison, she will tell you that guy doesn't always exhibit patients.
- [49:03]
Heather Monahan
Nobody's perfect guy.
- [49:06]
Guy Kawasaki
I am certainly not. But you know what? Like many things in life, it's complicated, right? So patience is waiting 20 years for that oak tree. But patience is the flip side of complacency. And so if you're overly patient or you're patient in everything, maybe you won't grow and maybe you won't have grit. Right? So it's not as binary as you got to be patient. Sometimes you got to be impatient. And as I look back in my life, some teachers, some bosses, some coaches were very impatient with me. And that led to good things, not bad things. So it's not that simple. That I have this theory that the older I get, the less I think I know.
- [49:58]
Heather Monahan
It's a great point, though, because I also think my biggest weakness is the number one driver for my success, because I will never be.
- [50:06]
Guy Kawasaki
Exactly.
- [50:07]
Heather Monahan
I've never been complacent for anything in my life. And in fact, that's the differentiator about me. But to your point, it's finding a way to. Is there some way to balance it in moments when, you know my business isn't necessarily going to be a multimillion dollar success overnight? I need to find a little bit of patience in this moment and how to pull those different levers. You've interviewed so many incredible, remarkable people. Yes. You know normal people, too. We all do. When you look at the difference between more normal people and remarkable people, what's the one thing that you would say more normal people get stuck with or don't advance with? Is it the growth, the grit, or the grace? Like, is there one thing you can point to?
- [50:46]
Guy Kawasaki
And don't you have any easy questions.
- [50:48]
Heather Monahan
So you don't need any layups?
- [50:52]
Guy Kawasaki
Okay, so one thing that I've learned in my life is that everybody you meet can do something better than you. Right? Listen, you may talk to your gardener and you're thinking, well, I'm the landowner. He or she is just a gardener. For all you know, that gardener can raise oak trees better than you. Maybe that gardener can surf better than you. Maybe that gardener can cook Better than you. So, you know, you think you're all hot and you're the center of the freaking universe, but I'm telling you that that gardener can do something better than you. And that is true of everybody. So when you ask a question like that, it's very risky because it's kind of like saying that, you know, you can judge people as losers, right? But okay, so let's say someone is not progressing in his or her career, not putting in the 60 hours, you know, whatever, just kind of a middle of the road person. And you're thinking, oh, I'm so vastly superior to that person. But you don't know. Maybe he or she is single parent, raising four kids, taking care of her parents and grandparents. Maybe he or she's abused. I mean, who knows what, right? But you're just judging that he or she is not this overachiever at work. But you don't know the total picture. So you should not judge people. This is a very long answer to say that. I hesitate to give you an answer to your question because I'm telling you, remarkable people, they grow, they have grit and they have grace. But you may not see those things because you're only seeing one slice. I mean, if you go to the, you know, United Airlines counter and the check in person treats you like I suggest to you, it you step back and you say you don't know what's going on in her life, right? Maybe her school just called her and said, your daughter or son is in trouble again and all you care about is you want to get an upgrade to first class because you know your global services and do you know who I am? I demand that you upgrade me. Like, give me a break. My kid is like, you know, just got arrested and that's my problem. What's your problem? Go sit in fucking middle. Middle of the economy. I don't care. I can't see. If I was United Airlines, I would want that to come across. But you gotta think of what else is going on in people's lives.
- [53:34]
Heather Monahan
Oh, that was my favorite part of this whole interview, guy. And you're so incredibly right. All I thought of, especially with the airlines, because like you, I travel a lot for work and, and I see the frustration levels with people in the airport and I've been challenging myself that every time I see someone working in the airport that's feeling frustrated to be kind to them, to support for them and just let them know I see them. I want to encourage you. And it's made such a difference in My travel the last couple of months where people are being. Going out of their way to be so kind back to me when all I'm trying to do is encourage them. So thank you for bringing that up. Guy, tell everybody where can they get Think Remarkable and where can they follow you?
- [54:15]
Guy Kawasaki
You know, of course it will be in bookstores and Amazon and everywhere, right? I mean, getting it will not be a problem. Deciding to get it is what I'm trying to make you do right now. And listen, I. A tech guy like me sure as hell should have a great domain. So I have a domain. Think Remarkable. And the way you remember the title, well, we've been talking about remarkable all day. But back in 1997, Apple ran an ad campaign called Think Think different. And it was about Einstein and Richard Branson and Gandhi and Picasso, all the people who thought differently and would be the kind of person that would use a Macintosh. And that ad campaign and the imac. Save Apple. Well, of course, there was Steve Jobs, too. And I think that, you know, yes, thinking different is good and kept us going. But now, in today's fractured world, you got to think remarkable. You need to up your game from just different to remarkable. So I hope you read the book. You know, I hope it helps you make a difference. That's the key. That's the reward for me.
- [55:24]
Heather Monahan
Oh, Guy, I am so grateful to have had you on today. I knew this was going to be an epic interview. And for everyone listening, get the book. You need this book in your life. Learn from a man who's learned from hundreds of other incredible people and who has lived an incredible life. Done so much. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with the world. Thank you for making it so easy to read. This is such an easy. You are not going to be reading Gone with the Wind here, people. You're cutting right to the chase. Figuring out what's going to work for you is going to allow you to make your life remarkable. Guy, thank you so much for everything that you do.
- [55:58]
Guy Kawasaki
Thank you. And don't forget to plant those acorns.
- [56:02]
Heather Monahan
Now that I know all the backstory that is happening. I promise you that. All right, guys, go get the book. Think remarkable. Find Guy online. He's definitely dropping wisdom here today and every day. Thank you, guys.
- [56:16]
Guy Kawasaki
Thank you. Thank you very much. And listen, if you drop those acorns in water and they all float, just let me or Madison know and I'll go get some more for you.
- [56:26]
Heather Monahan
Who is better than you guys? Keep creating your confidence. I'll see you next week I'm going to make.
- [56:33]
Unknown
I decided to change that dynamic.
- [56:37]
Heather Monahan
Couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear.
- [56:40]
Unknown
Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.
- [56:46]
Guy Kawasaki
You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.
- [56:50]
Heather Monahan
Come on this journey with me.