Fred and Rose West are disgusting humans | Ep 218

Summary

Crime and Coffee Couple – True Crime Podcast
Episode 218: Fred and Rose West Are Disgusting Humans
November 2, 2025
Hosts: Allison and Mike

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Allison and Mike, the married hosts of Crime and Coffee Couple, delve into the horrifying crimes of Fred and Rose West, a British husband-and-wife serial killer duo responsible for at least 12 murders—mostly of young women and girls, including some of their own children, over two decades. This case is particularly chilling both for the violence committed behind the facade of a "typical" family and for the couple's ability to evade suspicion for so long while living in a crowded neighborhood. The discussion is informed, empathetic to victims, and occasionally interspersed with the duo's trademark banter and relatable tangents.

Content Warning: This episode contains detailed discussion of child abuse, sexual assault, torture, and murder.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Podcast Tone

• Mike and Allison welcome new listeners, setting a cozy but dark tone pairing true crime with light, humorous personal exchanges (02:03).
• Mike compares the podcast to a "local coffee shop" rather than a big chain, emphasizing their intimate approach (02:12).
• They share a glimpse into their own lives, such as quitting alcohol and becoming coffee connoisseurs, before Allison transitions to the case (05:11).

Case Introduction: Who Were Fred & Rose West?

• Listener suggestion from Jenna.
• Publicly, Fred and Rose West appeared to be a standard couple living on Cromwell Street, Gloucester, England. Secretly, their house was a scene of horrific torture and murder (08:40).
• Fred's macabre threat/joke to his children: “If you misbehave, you'll end up under the patio, just like your sister Heather.” (09:00)

"It's incredible to me that such a sick person could not only exist but find their perfect sick mate and come together to wreak such havoc."
— Allison (10:48)

Timeline & Background

• Fred’s crimes began before meeting Rose:

  • Started his abusive, criminal behavior before marrying Rose (dates back to 1967).
  • Rose was 15 when she met Fred (he was 27); he quickly manipulated her into his sphere of abuse (11:43).

• Fred's marriage to Rena:

  • Abusive relationship; Rena had two daughters, Charmaine (not Fred's biologically) and Anne Marie (12:33).
  • After Rena left, Fred kept the girls; Rena, tragically, left them with him despite the abuse.

"You can't leave your two innocent children in the hands of someone you know is terribly abusive."
— Allison (15:37)

• Entry of Rose:
  • Rose moved in as a nanny for Fred’s daughters and swiftly became abusive herself (14:50, 15:05).

Abuse Escalates: Murder of Charmaine and Rena

• Charmaine, Fred's stepdaughter, was murdered while Fred was in prison, most likely by Rose, who hid her body until Fred could dispose of it (22:35).
• Rena (Fred’s first wife) later went missing—likely murdered by Fred after seeking her daughters (44:03).

The "House of Horrors": 25 Cromwell Street

• With Rose’s involvement, abuse became systematic and sadistic.
• Anne Marie’s account:
  • Repeatedly raped by Fred, with Rose’s encouragement; forced into sex work at 13, instructed to claim she was 16 (23:16, 28:18).
• Multiple children:
  • The Wests had at least seven additional children, some fathered by Fred, others likely by clients due to Rose’s sex work (28:19).
• Despite the abuse, the Wests presented a façade of normalcy—family vacations, celebrations, and public smiles (29:51).
• Tenants and victims:
  • The couple rented rooms to vulnerable young women—many of whom vanished after staying there (31:35).

"You never know what's lying beneath the surface. I always want to be a trusting person, but when you host a true crime podcast, you basically think everyone's a sick murderer."
— Allison (32:05)

Escalation and Cover-up: Murder of Heather

• Heather West (eldest daughter):
  • Tried to escape and expose the abuse but was murdered in 1987. Fred repeatedly joked to the children that she was “under the patio” (33:09).
• Siblings were initially told she moved for work, but the lack of contact raised their suspicions (33:43).

Breaking the Case: Police Investigation

• 1992: Louise (another daughter) confided in a friend about ongoing rape; friend’s mother tipped off police (34:26).
• Abuse and lack of records for Heather came to light; all younger children were placed into foster care (34:52).
• Anne Marie (escaped daughter) came forward with her story, though was understandably hesitant to testify (35:56).
• Fear and trauma among surviving victims undermined the first prosecution (38:06), but persistent investigation into Heather’s disappearance led authorities to re-examine Fred’s jokes and excavate the property (38:38).

Discovery and Confession

• Fred confessed to Heather’s murder when police prepared to excavate (40:37).
• During the search, police found multiple bodies, including Shirley Robinson, another pregnant victim (42:07).
• Fred eventually confessed to 12 murders, but tried to shield Rose (43:16).

“He was so matter-of-fact about talking, as if he was discussing the weather.”
— Allison, on Fred’s confession regarding Heather (41:53)

• The investigation revealed unimaginable cruelty—victims were bound, sexually tortured, and dismembered. The Wests’ children often heard threats and witnessed abuse.

Rose's Involvement and Trial

• Despite Fred’s attempts to absolve her, evidence and witness testimony pointed to Rose’s active participation in sexual violence, torture, and murder (49:19).
• Caroline Owens, a former nanny who nearly escaped becoming another murder victim, testified against them (50:38).
• In late 1995, Rose was convicted on all counts and sentenced to life imprisonment without parole (54:18).

"She became the UK’s second woman in modern times to be given life in prison without the possibility of parole. And she is still in prison."
— Allison (54:31)

Aftermath and Legacy

• Fred hanged himself in prison in 1995 before trial could conclude (52:32).
• Rose remains in prison, reportedly enjoying various privileges, while the West children are estranged and still struggle with trauma (63:02).
• Police believe there may have been more victims never identified.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s just mind-blowing to me that a sick person can exist, and then find their perfect sick mate and come together and wreak such havoc.” — Allison (10:48)
• “If you misbehave, you’ll end up under the patio like Heather.” — Fred’s repeated “joke” relayed by Allison (09:00)
• “There’s nothing more innocent than a child, because they are born, and they see the world as nothing but kindness and beauty.” — Allison (22:47)
• “Good. I mean, that’s fantastic.” — Mike, reacting to Fred’s suicide in prison (52:32)
• “My heart goes out to the victims and families … after all this time, forever, they’re going to feel the pain.” — Allison (65:14)
• “It is fascinating that humans are so interested in these, like, because we can’t wrap our heads around what would possess people to do what they do.” — Allison, on true crime curiosity (66:09)

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Important Timestamps

• [08:40] — Allison gives content warning and introduces Fred & Rose West.
• [11:43] — Fred and Rose’s relationship and abuse background.
• [15:00] — Rose begins abusing the children.
• [22:35] — Murder and concealment of Charmaine.
• [24:12] — Sexual abuse of Anne Marie.
• [28:18] — Anne Marie forced into sex work, runs away at 15.
• [31:35] — Ex-tenants describe the strange atmosphere at Cromwell Street.
• [33:09] — Heather tries to escape, goes missing.
• [34:26] — Louise’s disclosure leads to child welfare investigation.
• [38:38] — Police excavate Cromwell Street property; Fred confesses.
• [41:33] — Fred’s calm demeanor in confessions with social worker.
• [54:18] — Rose found guilty on all charges.
• [63:02] — Aftermath for surviving West children.

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Final Thoughts

Mike and Allison present the Fred and Rose West case with a balance of compassion for victims and horror at the perpetrators’ actions. The couple’s candid banter provides moments of humanity amid chilling material. The episode is both informative and respectful, delving into both the psychology of how such evil hides in plain sight and the tragic long-term effects on survivors.

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Further Reading/Resources:

• Netflix’s “Fred and Rose West: A British Horror Story” (2025) referenced for additional insights (63:53).
• Memoirs and interviews from surviving West children, particularly Mae West, are discussed as sources.

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If you or someone you know is affected by abuse, please seek support from a trusted resource or helpline.

Transcript

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[Allison]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode with the Crime and Coffee Couple. My name's Allison.

[Mike]

And my name's Mike.

[Allison]

Hello, Mike.

[Mike]

Hello, darling. How are you?

[Allison]

I'm well. How are you?

[Mike]

I'm great. I'm great. For our new listeners, it seems like we just got a bunch of a spattering of new listeners. Welcome. And we are the Crime and Coffee Couple. And like we said, that's Allison. This is Mike. We're just a little tiny podcast. I'm Pa and I'm Ma Yeah. And so our listeners sometimes will refer to us as such. And we're not some part of some huge conglomerate network, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. If you like going to McDonald's every day, you're more than welcome to do so. But if you want to listen to a local little coffee shop type of podcast, that's us. So welcome. Allison delivers a new episode every single Sunday. And then there's bonus episodes on Wednesdays for our subscribers. So there's she usually, she's a huge true crime fan. She looks into some kind of crimes that she hasn't really heard a lot about. So not to say that you've never heard of them, but they're probably a little lesser known.

[RealReal Customer]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And if you ever have a case you'd like to suggest, we do have a form over on our something.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah, we definitely have it on our something.

[Allison]

Like the technical guy.

[Mike]

Yeah. Allison does the research and everything you hear, like, content wise is from Alison. But I definitely do pretty much everything else.

[Allison]

Mike's the behind the scenes guy. He takes care of a lot. You might not realize that, but he really does now.

[Mike]

Well, now, now, since our son is doing our YouTube video editing, that has taken off a tremendous, like, weight off my shoulders. But to, to answer your question, you can suggest episodes on Instagram. There's a link tree. There's like a little link tree, so you just click on that. So go to Instagram if you have anything to say to us. DM us on Instagram. That's probably our main spot for talking to fans.

[Allison]

Absolutely. So how's everything going with you?

[Mike]

Good, Good. I just mentioned that our son does our video editing. And before I was kind of groping you, I would say groping you on the video.

[Allison]

I was like, I was stretching and he touched me inappropriately.

[Mike]

Is it inappropriately or is it like, are there women out there that are listening? Like, I wish my husband would touch me. Every once in a while there's probably more saying, I wish my husband would stop touching me.

[Allison]

I always say Mike has octopus hands. It's like, if I' changing and I know he's headed my way. I gotta hurry up and get changed, otherwise the octopus arms are gonna come at me.

[Mike]

They doing. You're a little ticklish. So, yeah, so I, I was doing that and I was like, oh, no, our son's gonna be watching this video because he's editing it. I'm like, hun, son, your mom's a hussy. Just so you know.

[Allison]

I said, I'm a hussy.

[Mike]

She's a.

[Allison]

But hey, after 30 years of being together, the fact that you still like me. I'm very happy about that.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm happy about that as well. And I'll show you.

[Allison]

And you know how you can show me that you love me is by getting me a Dutch Brothers coffee like you did. We have a new Dutch Brothers by us. I don't know if you guys have them by you. We did not before.

[Mike]

First one.

[Allison]

What? Has been open for about a month. We've probably hit it a good four or five times.

[Mike]

Yeah, we were there the second day, I believe, just because we were at Starbucks across the street and we had ourselves a coffee, and then we're like, ooh, Dutch Brothers.

[Allison]

We were literally drinking lattes at Starbucks, gazing out at Dutch Brothers, and we're like. Said we. Yeah, sometimes we get a little coffee crazy.

[Mike]

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit.

[Allison]

And when we're on vacation, we're like coffee addicts.

[Mike]

Lattes are flowing like the wine. I don't know. Water.

[Allison]

Well, we used to drink. Come. We're actually. We've just passed three years of not drinking alcohol. Alcohol. We do still drink fluids.

[Mike]

I drink water every day.

[Allison]

Might die if we didn't. But, you know, once we hit our 40s, we just realized that alcohol was just not fitting into our lives. We felt like hot garbage. I don't know if anyone can relate, but, you know, in our 20s, in college, we would sling them back. We'd recover just fine. But once we hit 40, it was like a three, four day hangover. I was like, no, thank you. So now my addiction is to coffee and lattes.

[Mike]

Yeah. Sugar. Also, don't forget, like ice creams.

[Allison]

Yeah. Ever since I gave up alcohol, I do have more of a sweet tooth. I don't indulge it that often. We used to do blizzard Sundays, and I was like, oh, maybe I really can't be doing this anymore.

[Mike]

Maybe that's not the healthiest thing.

[Allison]

Maybe not every Sunday.

[Mike]

No, no. But every once in a while it's okay.

[Allison]

Every once in a while. 100%. But we went away to the northern Georgia mountains. We live in Florida, if you're new to us. And so we just wanted a quick getaway because the kids had a couple of days off of school. So we're like, let's take the trip. You know, sometimes it's a pain in the butt because you gotta pack and make the arrangements and spend the money. But then you never regret doing it because you're Making those memories. And if you have teenagers, you know that they're off in the rooms doing their own thing. So sometimes you have to get away to spend that quality time together. But it's like we go away, and we're, like, hitting all the local coffee shops. And we didn't once have ice cream when we were away.

[Mike]

I know. Even though there were ice cream parlors, like, there was a place called, like, Man Helen's Ice Cream Parlor or something like that. And it was so quaint. We had that. We visited the quaintest little town called Dahlonega.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

And D A H L, O, N E G A.

[Allison]

Just in case, if you're watching on YouTube, I actually got a sticker on my computer. But we pulled into this town, never hearing about it in our lives, and we got out of the car, and we're like, what the heck?

[Mike]

Yeah. The only reason we heard of it is the cabin that we rented. We just, like, kind of look on the map. We're like, okay, we want to go in this general area. Let's just do this one. And they said the nearest town. Like, make sure you stop there, because there's nothing around us for, like, 25 minutes. This is the last town you hit before you get to the cabin. So we're like, all right, well, let's stop here. Let's get some dinner, and then let's make our way to the cabin. And it was just like, we stepped out. We're like, in a Hallmark movie kind of thing. And if you've seen our Instagram, allisonloves her Christmas Hallmark movies.

[Allison]

I am addicted to Hallmark Christmas movies. So it was just like that. That's what I was thinking. And I'm sitting in the grass with our daughter and our dog, and Mike's in the ramen place getting our takeout, and this older couple was commenting on her dog, and we could just got to chatting. I was like, oh, my gosh, you guys live here? This is so beautiful. And they're like, yeah. Actually, this summer, they filmed a handful of Hallmark Christmas movies.

[Mike]

Of course, they filmed them in the summer because they have those fake bubbles that go on top of everybody, and everybody's totally cool with it. We all know we're getting out of the Hallmark Christmas movies.

[Allison]

One time I was watching one that was filmed in Chicago, and they must have not removed this man, because ahead, you could see a guy on the sidewalk with shorts and a T shirt on.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And it's like, you know, everyone else is in winter gear and gloves and coats and Hats. They must be sweating there.

[Mike]

And everybody's holding like a cup of cocoa or a cup of coffee and it's like, yeah, I don't know if it's steaming. But they're always holding it and they're always just like, oh, yeah, that's good. Like, it's just like the coziest thing ever.

[Allison]

There was one that was filmed with the Chiefs football team last year and I think Jenna Bush Hager was on it.

[Mike]

Today show.

[Allison]

Yeah, from the Today show. She had to make an announcement. Of course, she's in the super cute wool coat. She said it was about 97 degrees on the field when they filmed that. That scene.

[Mike]

It's ungodly. They shouldn't do that.

[Allison]

I mean, go up to like, I don't know, Alaska or something. Yeah, a lot of are filmed in Canada. But anyway, we've gotten off topic too much. So we get back on track here and get into the story.

[Mike]

Let's do it.

[Allison]

I will give you a warning that this is a case that involves sexual assault of children. This is a dark case. I had actually never heard of this couple. But this is a listener suggestion from Jenna. And this is a story of Fred and Rose West. So some may have thought that Fred and Rose west were just a typical married couple who lived in England, who with their children. But this couldn't have been farther from the truth. Although they may have blended into their neighborhood along Cromwell street, their home was a location of absolute horrific torture and murder. And you know, you're looking at a husband and wife and that gives you like the sense of security. Especially when they have children, you think, okay, it's a normal family.

[Mike]

There's not many safer people to be around than a couple with some kids and stuff.

[Allison]

And when you learn what this couple, couple was doing to other young girls, it's so shocking. Not only just other young girls, but also some of their children.

[Mike]

I hate them already.

[Allison]

So Fred west would often make this sick joke to his children that if they misbehaved, they would end up under the patio, just as their 16 year old sister Heather west had. So the last time anyone had seen Heather was seven years earlier in June of 1987. The west children had always been told that their older sister had left home to work in southern England. But when they mentioned their father's flippant threat to social workers about this joke, this so called joke about Heather being under the patio, authorities started to wonder, is there some truth behind what he's saying? So they ended up going to the west home at 25 Cromwell street in Gloucester, England. And what they uncovered earned this home, this family home with so many kids as the house of horrors. And it exposed an unimaginable darkness that no one could have ever wrapped their heads around or imagined. So by the end of 1994, that's when the lid got blown off of everything. One missing daughter would become at least 12 victims between Fred and Rose West. These are married serial killers. And I always think in my head, how do people find each other? Like, it is incredible to me that 16 sick person can exist, but the fact that they could find their other sick mate and come together and wreak such havoc is just mind blowing to me. So this couple went on a two decade killing spree between 1967 and 1987. They didn't meet until 1969, so two years before they met, Fred was doing his own thing on his own. So what makes this case even more disturbing is the fact that they somehow managed to get away with all of this violence in plain sight for so long, undetected. So Fred and Rose, their sick and violent love affair began in early 1969 when a 27 year old Fred west encouraged a much younger Rosemary or Rose Letts. So Rose had only just turned 15. She was a child.

[Mike]

Well, that's exactly what he's going after.

[Allison]

Absolutely. He wants someone that he can influence and really take control of. And that's exactly what he ended up doing. So they first crossed paths while they were waiting for the same boss. And initially Rose was really put off by Fred's unkempt appearance. But he was someone that was very persistent and he was charming. So he was able to eventually break down her defenses and shower her with all this, this attention. And eventually she started to warm up to him. So despite the fact that Fred was nearly twice Rose's age, he began stopping by the bread shop where she worked. And when he asked her out for a date, she accepted. So being 12 years her senior, you know, we're talking about someone that's almost 30 versus someone who's 15. There's huge gaps in life experience.

[Mike]

Yeah, we're not talking about a 50 to 65 year old. This is, this is like a big.

[Allison]

Gap, a huge gap. So at this point in time, Fred was actually married to a woman named Catherine who went by Rena. And this is Rena Costello. So he told Rose that his wife had left him a year before and he was left to care for their two daughters together. So those who had been familiar with Fred and Rena suspected that their relationship was very abusive on Rena's end. She was at the receiving end of the abuse. And they could tell that there was violence in the relationship because Rena often came around with black eyes or bruises on her body. And you can only make up excuses for so long. You know, a person who's very young isn't falling down the stairs repeatedly and bumping their arm or hitting their head. So once the bruises continue to show up, people start to realize that there's more to it. So when the couple first met and went on to get married, Rena was actually pregnant by another man. She eventually gave birth to her daughter Charmaine. This happened on February 22, 1963, and Charmaine never did know her biological father. So one year later, then Fred and Rena had their second daughter. This is Anne Marie. She was born in 1964. So the following year, the family of four moved from Rena's home city of Glasgow to be closer to Fred's hometown of Gloucester. So once now in England, you know, Rena's away from her hometown. He began sexually abusing his young stepdaughter, Charmaine, and then his control and abuse towards Rena was only escalating at this point in time. So when Rena escaped Fred, though, she sadly left her two daughters behind. So now a single father of two young daughters, this is six year old Charmaine and a five year old Anne Marie. They started to spend time in and out of social services until 1969 when Fred came across a 15 year old rose. So only weeks after their meeting, he convinced her to come with him to work as a full time nanny to his daughters. So when Rose first moved in, they were initially living in a caravan, and then they eventually moved into their home on Midland Road in Gloucester.

[Mike]

What's up? Caravan?

[Allison]

I don't know. I don't know if it's like a trailer type of situation.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So sadly though, bringing Rose into this situation did not help the girls at all because Rose herself was a very violent person.

[Mike]

Crazy how they found each other, like you said earlier, like, I don't know, he must have sensed it somehow.

[Allison]

And she's only 15 years old at this point in time, so really soon after her arrival, she started to regularly beat these two young girls. So tragically, this behavior was something that had sadly been accustomed to because they had often been subjected to cruel treatment. I mean, Charmaine was being sexually abused by her stepfather.

[Mike]

And what the hell's the matter with Reena, the mom that just left her? The kids There like terrible mother.

[Allison]

I mean, I understand that she was subjected to a lot of abuse, but.

[Mike]

Yeah, but you had your kids like.

[Allison]

You just can't, you can't leave your two innocent children in the hands of someone that, you know, is terribly abusive.

[Mike]

Yeah, way to go, Reena.

[Allison]

So he would often cage them into bunk beds and then only allow them to come out when he was at work. So because of all this abuse, these young girls rarely were allowed to leave their house to socialize. You know, they were basically going to school and then they were prisoners of their own home. And God forbid they were unable to complete their list of daily chores, boy, oh boy, would they suffer the punishment. So since Anne Marie was said to be more submission, submissive because she's a younger sister, she received far less abuse than Charmaine had. So Fred and Rose had their first child together. This was when Heather Ann west was born on October 17, 1970. This is the child in question that I mentioned at the beginning of the story that Fred would flippantly say that Heather was under the patio. So only two months later, though, Fred was imprisoned for theft. This happened in December of 1970 and he remained behind bars through June of 1971. So this left a 17 year old Rose to care for their three young daughters. So after Rose took Charmaine and Marie and Heather to visit Fred in prison In June of 1971, 8 year old Charmaine suddenly vanished, never to be seen again. So after she disappeared, Rose started concocting stories because of course she had a cover. Where was the daughter that always lived with them? So she started telling people that Rena had come to collect her eldest daughter to live with her in Bristol. But she wasn't keeping her story straight because when she spoke to teachers at Charmaine School, she would tell them that they were living, she was living with Rena in London. So she was giving, you know, mixed messages here. And anytime somebody's telling different stories, it's likely not the truth.

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Fascinating.

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[Allison]

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[Mike]

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[RealReal Customer]

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[RealReal Advertiser]

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[Allison]

So of course, when Anne Marie came home, this is Charmaine's little sister who probably took great comfort in having her older sister there because I'm sure she act to protect her. She suddenly comes home and finds that her sister isn't there. So she's left to only hear what Rose has to say that, you know, Rena suddenly came and I'm sure that made Anne Marie feel terrible because why hadn't her mom come to take her?

[Mike]

Yeah, why didn't she pick me too?

[Allison]

But she had no choice but to question or to believe it because she knew better than to question Rose. She knew what would happen if she did.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So, you know, sadly, not only did Charmaine go missing that year, but Rena herself would also go missing. So because Charmaine refused to accept Rose as her mother, she was often at the receiving end of Rose's physical and emotional abuse. She was once heard saying, my real mummy would never swear or shout at us. So this was something that enraged Rose because she just wanted a compliant child to do whatever it was that she wanted. She didn't want anyone to fight her. So a neighbor once said that they saw Charmaine standing naked on a chair, gagged, with her hands bound as Rose stood next to her with a wooden spoon in hand. And I will say the Obvious here. If you see a child being abused like this neighbor saw, please say something.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think it was a different time, obviously. Like, people would just stick to themselves. Not like it. Abuse of children wasn't really even a thing. Like, it's at certain points in time, right?

[Allison]

Like, it was like, oh, you're gonna get a whoopin. Like, that would be set out in the public, and no one would bat an eye at that.

[Mike]

Yeah. There's people that are very proud being like, yeah, my parents used to hit me, and I'm fine. It's like, okay, well, congratulations. But it's not right.

[Allison]

Yeah. And I don't know if it's, like, a cultural thing or situational where you live. You know, that certain places think it's okay to, like, whoop or spank or whatever. I'm just not that person. I. I feel like spanking a child is like an adult tantrum.

[Mike]

It 100 is. And if you think otherwise, then you're wrong.

[Allison]

So. Investigators came to theorize that while Rose was left to care for her three young girls, because, of course, again, she's only, like, 17 years old at this time, that she murdered Charmaine sometime shortly before Fred was released. So he was released from prison on June 24, 1971. They know that Charmaine went to the prison to visit Fred nine days earlier. They all went there on June 15th. So sometime between June 15th and June 24th is when Charmaine disappeared. So it's likely that Rose murdered Charmaine in a fit of rage and kept her body in the coal cellar at home on Midland Road until Fred was released and able to basically handle Charmaine's remains. So the exact circumstances of Charmaine's murder will likely never be known. But after Rose murdered and concealed this little child, Fred came home, he dismembered her remains, and he buried her under the kitchen floor of their home.

[Mike]

That's crazy, doing that to your own child.

[Allison]

I know. And granted, he was not her biological father, but he was the only father she ever knew.

[Mike]

Like any child, it's like. I don't know.

[Allison]

There's nothing more innocent than a child, because they are born, and they see the world as nothing but kindness and beauty. And it's the jaded thoughts around them that change them. And that's why, when our kids were small, like, never would I swear in front of them. And I have a mouth like a truck driver sometimes, but I never wanted to tarnish that innocence. You know, we want to protect our kids, and not to a fault as they get Older. They have to realize that the world has some darkness in it in order to protect them. Yeah.

[Mike]

Welcome to teenage years. You're going to now know some of the secrets that we've been hiding for years.

[Allison]

Right. So, you know, it's just sick because this horrible act of violence somehow brought this couple closer together. So sadly, the abuse within the household, it only continued. And now that Charmaine was no longer there on the receiving end, the violence was focused on Anne Marie. So in 1972, when she was as young as 8 years old, Fred restrained and raped his daughter. So rather than stepping in to help, Rose only stood by and actually encouraged him. She even helped him by forcefully removing the young girl's clothing. So when the attack was over, Rose allegedly told her, I'm sorry, everybody does it to every girl. It's a father's job. Don't worry and don't say anything to anybody. Can you imagine how confusing this must be to an 8 year old child?

[Mike]

I mean, her whole life is hell. So I, you know, this is just another cherry on the top, unfortunately.

[Allison]

That's so sad. So that same year, Fred and an 18 year old Rose, they were officially married on January 29, 1972. And only months later, they settled into their new home at 25 Cromwell street in Gloucester. This is a location that had rows of terrace homes. So there's a lot of houses here. We're not talking the countryside where there's sprawling land between each home. So when I tell you that all of this horror went on, they were right there with other neighbors around. So this was the place that was later dubbed the house of horrors by the media. So by the way, Gloucester, like you look at that word on paper, it's not Gloucester.

[Mike]

Chester.

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[Allison]

It's like Gloucester.

[Mike]

Yeah. Oh, there's no shire. Okay.

[Allison]

No, not on that one. Gloucester. So I had to make sure I said that in my head about 15 times so that I didn't look like an absolute ninny.

[Mike]

It's kind of like Worcester in Massachusetts.

[Allison]

Yeah, there's so many. It's like, why, why do you do this? Why do you spell it like that if it's not pronounced like that? So there was a hint at the darkness that was happening between the couple when just shy of their first wedding anniversary, Fred and Rose were actually convicted of assault, occasionally actual body bodily harm, and indecent assault for kidnapping a girl on January 12, 1973.

[Mike]

Did you say assault?

[Allison]

Occasionally assault, occasioning actual bodily.

[Mike]

What is occasioning?

[Allison]

I don't know. I'm just Doing the research. And that's what they were convicted.

[Mike]

I mean, it's probably like an English thing. Okay.

[Allison]

Yeah, it must be. So this should have been a hint that something dark was happening here between this couple. But sadly, it all kind of to shambles. So this happened to a girl named Caroline Owens. She was actually a young woman who worked for Fred and Rose as a nanny for a short period of time in late 1972.

[Mike]

Well, that's how Rose came in. So I'm sure they were probably trying to bring her in or whatever, being, hey, what do you feel? How do you feel about serial killing and murdering and. And sexual assault?

[Allison]

No. She was going to be one of their victims. So she was out hitchhiking on December 6, 1972, and when the couple picked her up and they brought her back to their home, and they basically kept her as a prisoner and sexually assaulted her. So after she managed to escape, she did go to police. But when the case went to court, she was unable to face the ordeal of testifying. So all the charges were dropped. Because we're talking about a young girl here who is scared and traumatized.

[Mike]

I'm sure they said plenty of things to her, too. If you ever talk about this, we're going to kill you.

[Allison]

Oh, absolutely. So after Fred and Rose agreed to plead guilty to reduce charges, they were each fined 25 pounds, bones, and the case was basically forgotten.

[Mike]

That's it?

[Allison]

Yes.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Allison]

It's like, What a joke?

[Mike]

25 bucks. Oh, you're good.

[Allison]

Slap on the wrist. So basically, everything was basically forgotten. And this allowed them to continue on with their violent ways. So as Anne Marie entered her teenage years, the abuse and torment against her, it only escalated. So Rose continued to assist her husband. She would bind Anne Marie to furniture so that Fred was free to do whatever he wished with his daughter. So when she did her chores, they would force her to wear a sexual device. These people are sick. So Beginning at age 13, Fred and Rose forced Anne Marie to solicit her body for sex. This was something that Rose was already doing out of their home at Fred's encouragement. So he bugged their bedroom with a listening device so that while Fred or while Rose was off with her, you know, customer, her, he would be in the next room listening to what was happening. So Anne Marie was instructed to tell these men who came into their home that she was 16 years old, not 13. So by the time she was 15 years old in 1979, she had had enough, and she actually ran away from home. She escaped this horrific abusive Life.

[Mike]

Good for her.

[Allison]

So between 1970 and 1983, Rose and Fred had had seven more children together, in addition to seven more. Yes.

[Mike]

Holy cow.

[Allison]

So they had May, Stephen, Tara, Louise, Barry, Rosemary Jr. And Luciana. I will tell you though, that some of these children, specifically the younger ones, this is specifically Tara, Louise, Rosemary and Luciana. They were likely fathered by other men other than Fred because Rose was inviting all these men into their home. She was actively working as a sex worker. So sadly, like Anne Marie, Fred also sexually molested Heather, May and Louise on many, many occasions, sometimes on a daily basis. So Rose also continued to have violent outbursts that were directed at their children. I read one article where Stephen said that once his mom got going on her physical abuse, she couldn't stop herself. She just kept pummeling. So sometimes their injuries would be so brutal that they ended up at a local hospital to be treated. And I'm sure they just came up with some story, oh, they fell down or whatever. So in the midst of living in constant fear, there were also moments of normalcy where the family ate meals and watched TV together. I watched home movies where they were out at this park riding bikes and they looked normal. And that's the scariest part of it, is that all that darkness and violence and abuse was hiding underneath a normal family picture on the outside.

[Mike]

Like kids smiling and everything and having.

[Allison]

A good time because they're children and they want to be children and they want to be free and to be happy. So when they saw these glimmers of normalcy, they probably grabbed onto them. So they would do normal things together. They would celebrate birthdays and holidays. They would go on family vacation. According to a memoir that was written by mae west in 2018, she remembers the superb cupcakes that her mother would bake. So she would do normal motherly things in the kitchen. She would make birthday cakes for them that they all enjoyed together. On certain days there were glimmers of feeling just like any other family. But those glimmers would vanish at the drop of a hat. And these moments of peace and normalcy, they were unfortunately very short lived as Fred and Rose. They opened their home at 25 Cromwell street to young teenage girls. They rented these rooms on the top floor of their home. So when investigators later spoke with a few of these ex tenants, thankfully they got out unharmed. They described the house as a strange place where men were often coming and going. Very atypical for a family home to have these strange men coming and going. So these young tenants were often girls they came from care homes or they had been out backpacking. They may have been in a vulnerable situation. Just being a teenager out by yourself, you're vulnerable. But some of them had run away from home and they were looking for a place to stay. So beginning in 1967, two years before Fred met Rose, he abducted, raped, and murdered. At least a total. In total, even with Rose, 12 young women. So Rose participated in about 10 of these cases.

[Mike]

So also, like, murdered them all. Not just like one of those things, but every single one of those things.

[Allison]

We're talking about horrible sexual assault, torture.

[Mike]

12, then murder to 12 girls.

[Allison]

12 girls.

[Mike]

That's crazy.

[Allison]

Insane. And we're talking again, about a street where they lived that has rows and rows of terrorist homes. And that's what makes me think sometimes, like, you never know what you're looking at online, on Instagram, anything. You never know what's lying beneath the surface.

[Mike]

Yeah, the real stuff is deep, Right.

[Allison]

And I am somebody that always likes to be a trusting person or something. But, you know, when you host a true crime podcast, you basically think everyone's a sick murderer.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

So, you know, just the fact that all of this was happening in plain sight. When Rose and Fred were together, it happened for a course of about 16 years. So again, they went on to torture, sexually abuse, and murder. So together they did about eight cases. So they would bury these girls remains around their property in the aftermath of all this abuse. So being the eldest of the children, Heather was trying to stop her parents abuse. She was confiding in certain people, maybe a friend, about what was going on within their household. She also tried her best to distance herself from the dysfunction, abuse, and darkness. So after she dropped out of school, she was applying for jobs out of town, hoping and praying that she would get hired so that she could escape and then have a job in the financial stability to live on her own.

[Mike]

Be like, oh, whoops, I got a job far away. I guess I gotta go get it.

[Allison]

So sadly, in 1987, she was not selected for a maid's position at a resort in Torque. Had she been, you know, hired, this would have saved her life, because she would have escaped. So the last time Heather was ever seen Alive was on June 19, 1987. So when her siblings came home that day, it's very familiar to what happened with Charmaine's death. Anne Marie came home, they had a story. Same thing happened with the west children. They come home from school one day, Heather's not there. They're told that their sister went to work in southern England. And they initially believed their parents. Why wouldn't they? They knew that their sister was applying for jobs out of town. But then they started to doubt the story because they were writing her letters, trying to get in touch with her, calling her. Heather was never responding. This wasn't like her. That's when they started to have these little niggles of doubt in their mind. So In May of 1992, after 13 year old Louise was continuously raped by her father over the course of weeks, one occasion of which Fred actually filmed, she finally worked up the courage. She was probably so just tortured and desperate at this point in time that she confided in a close friend about what was happening. Thankfully, this friend told their mother, and their mother anonymously informed the police. So although a search of the home in August of 1992 found objects of sexual paraphernalia as well as pornographic videos, we know that these things are not illegal. They did not find the tape of Luis's attack because that's what she told her friend. My dad did this to me and he filmed it. So Louise gave a full statement, and that is so brave as such a young girl. And she described her father's abuse, which began when she was as young as 11 years old, as well as the fact that her mother had been aware. So medical examinations revealed evidence of abuse, and all of the children in the household, thankfully, were transitioned to foster care the following day. So the west children told investigators that their mother had inflicted most of the physical abuse and that their father often made this flippant threat that if they told anyone, they would be buried under the patio like their sister Heather. So these comments finally prompted an investigation which unveiled the true horrors of Fred and Rose West. So upon hearing that their father was awaiting trial, and Marie gets word of this. So she's the one that had escaped 13 years earlier in 1979. So she came forward to detail the extensive physical and sexual and mental abuse that she endured as a child at the hands of both her father and stepmother.

[Mike]

And I wish she would have came, you know, clean about it earlier. Not clean, but.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

Brought it up to somebody's attention because, I mean, she had an opportunity for years and years. She knew the abuse, she lived it, unfortunately. And she knew all these other kids, her siblings or half siblings or whatever, you know, were going through the same thing.

[Allison]

In her defense, she was, I mean, subjected to things people can't wrap their heads around. I mean, at such a young age. She was raised in a horrifying environment. She escaped at age 15 after she had been put into sex work and exposed to things that no teenager should ever have to be exposed to. So you have to remember that for sure.

[Mike]

And like, you know, like me with these stories, like I try to forget them as soon as I hear them and know living the actual stories has got to be a whole different ball game. It's like you can question things or whatever, but yeah, not her fault. I imagine she's trying to wipe it out of her head, not think of it ever again and just get away from there.

[Allison]

Right. But then of course she did come forward to talk about this, which is good. So then, you know, Anne Marie and Louise, though they're young, you just have to remember that they declined to testify at the court case on June 7, 1993, the case against Rose and Fred collapsed because of this, which to me is ridiculous. This, because when you're asking two young victims to come into court and testify, they found evidence that Louise was abused. I mean, why isn't that enough?

[Mike]

I don't know. Yeah, you need as much as you can to put people away. Right? And I know in Europe it's harder to put people away for longer. So I don't know.

[Allison]

I just think they could have done better because had they talked to the other siblings, they would have all detailed the accounts of what happened. So Anne Marie chose to withdraw her statement because of her younger siblings distress at the whole situation as well as her fear of Rose's retaliation. I will tell you, in reading various memoirs and such, the kids were very afraid to go to adults and confide in them about what was happening because they thought about the big picture and what it would mean for them if they would all be separated and brought into different foster homes. Would there be abuse in those homes? Homes? There was a lot of risk there and a lot of fear.

[Mike]

Do you know how old Anne Marie is at this point?

[Allison]

Anne Marie was 15 in 1979 and this is 1993. And my brain does not compute math, so don't even expect me.

[Mike]

She's an adult. She's a full on adult. So it's. I don't know, man, I kind of wish Anne Marie would step up.

[Allison]

She was an adult that was traumatized for sure. So you just have to remember that.

[Mike]

But these people need to be put away because they're going to keep on doing it to you, your siblings and other people. They're only going to find other people. And this freaking Fred, he's going to go kill more women like young women and find. I don't know, man. He's a. He's a monster.

[Allison]

He's a monster. So the point is that the case started to collapse because of fear. These girls were so scared. She did bring attention to the fact that she had been unable to find her half sisters, Charmaine and Heather, or her mother, Reena. So she was saying, there's more going on here. I can't find these people. So the Wests were acquitted of all charges, but all of their younger children remained in foster care with permitted supervised visitations to Cromwell Street. However, police continued to search for missing Heather, noting that there were no records, no proof of life that she existed after this point in 1987. They also retrace Fred's history and the fact that neither Charmaine nor Rena, who each vanished in 1971, had a missing person report filed on either of them. That is very alarming. When an 8 year old child goes missing and no one has reported it, something's going on. So the investigators were convinced that Heather was deceased and reflected on Fred's repeated statements to his children. Because it wasn't just one child that said this. They would say, this is what my dad says, all right, we're gonna go under the patio like Heather. So although it was disguised as a flipping joke, they started to question. This might be very true, but would somebody be dumb enough to say such a thing? If they buried their daughter under a patio, would they go around saying it as a flipping joke? You know, if you're Fred west, yeah, you would. So on February 25, 1994, after police obtained a search warrant for their home and plan to excavate the yard, Fred, who was aware now that he was going to be caught, they were digging it up, he finally admitted that he was responsible for Heather's death. He confessed to strangling Heather in a fit of rage. Although he would change his story sometimes, he would say he never meant to hurt her. He just didn't want her to leave. Okay, so he contradicts himself a lot.

[Mike]

I don't care what he says.

[Allison]

So he strangles her. Then he dismembered her body with a heavy serrated knife. Wife in the ground floor bathroom. And then he buried her remains. This is his child.

[Mike]

Yeah. So sad.

[Allison]

Heather's remains were recovered the following day after she had been missing for nearly seven years. She had been found under the patio, exactly where Fred had threatened all along that she could be found. So when 52 year old Fred was taken into custody, he was initially reluctant to talk, and he was assigned To a designated appropriate adult. As he was barely literate and he had learning difficulties. We know that the law is a complex thing. So this person, this is 38 year old Janet Leach. She was a social worker and a mother of five that was basically assigned to him to help him understand the legal process. To be sure that there weren't any kind of caveats where it's like, oh, he didn't understand his rights, so they.

[Mike]

Want to make sure to be able.

[Allison]

To get him right. So Fred quickly connected to this woman. And even before he confessed to police case, he told Janet what he had done to his daughter. So she was shocked at the matter of fact way that he spoke about what he had done to his own child. As if he was talking about like a vacation or the weather.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So after Fred was formally charged with his daughter's murder, because of course they found Heather's remains under that patio. Police found a third thigh bone. So now they're realizing there's more to this than just tether.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So of course they say, fred, we found a third thigh bone. What is going on here? He indicated it belonged to an 18 year old girl named Shirley Robinson. Shirley had been a tenant at 25 Cromwell Street. She became Fred's lover while she was living there. So according to Fred, when she threatened to tell Rose that she was pregnant with his baby, During a time that Rose was actually at the hospital recovering from giving birth herself, he struck her in the jaw and then strangled her. So she was last seen in May of 1978. At the time, she was eight months pregnant. She and her unborn child were found buried in the garden at the West's home.

[Mike]

She's.

[Allison]

So when Fred was speaking of Shirley, he's a. And he slipped and said to investigators that her death made three. And then he quickly backtracked and tried to correct himself and say, oh, oh, sorry, that's two, not three. So from here, he very gradually began to confess. Because the guys, you know that he's talking to, these investigators, they're like, look, Fred, we're gonna dig up this place. You may as well just tell us what's going on.

[Mike]

Tell us what we're gonna find.

[Allison]

So in total, he confessed to 12 murders, but only after he was threatened that they were going to dig up the entire house. And they specifically mentioned the cellar. So he only did it because he knew he was caught. So Fred helped investigators locate the remains of all 12 female victims. Although he would later recant his conditions of guilt. Like I said, he was, you know, A flip flopper. So while he spoke with police, he tried to protect Rose. So he's sitting there telling these investigators that Rose knew nothing about what happened happened. We're talking about torture, murder, dismemberment of 12 people. So obviously, the investigators are like, that's hogwash. Poppycock.

[Mike]

Yeah, all those things.

[Allison]

All of those things. She.

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[Allison]

He's saying she didn't know that Heather was killed. So when Rose learned of her husband's confessions, she denied any involvement, and she started to greatly distance herself from her husband. So investigators learned that after Fred's first wife, Reena, left him, she did maintain sporadic contact with Charmaine and Anne Marie. So In August of 1971, she was given Fred's address on Midland Road, and she likely went to that home to demand custody of Charmaine and Anne Marie. She didn't realize at that point in time that Charmaine had actually been missing for two months. So authorities believe that after she went to this house, she was strangled in the back of Fred's car. She was then dismembered, and her remains were placed into plastic bags before they were buried. When her remains were eventually discovered on April 11, 1994, there was a small red boomerang and a piece of metal piping in her grave.

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[Mike]

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[Allison]

So Fred admitted to being responsible for 11 victims, but he never admitted involvement in the murder of an 18 year old girl named Anne McFall. And this is despite the fact that he showed investigators where her remains could be found. Can you imagine?

[Mike]

Yeah, I didn't kill her, but I know where her dead body is.

[Allison]

How absolutely silly is that? So Anne was Charmaine and Anne Marie's nanny during his first marriage with Reena. So she is believed to have been his first victim in July of 1967. Again, this is two years before he met Rose. So it's speculated that she had an affair with him while Reena was away. And when she vanished, she was also pregnant, about six to seven months, just like Shirley had been. So when Ann and her unborn baby's remains were recovered on June 7, 1994, they found that her wrists were bound with a length of cord. So when I'm saying 12 victims, it's more than that because two of these girls were pregnant.

[Mike]

And like everybody's getting pregnant in this house. There's like the fertile city, like you got kids popping out everywhere and unfortunately a lot of them not making it because just so much sex going on like this. Like this guy was obsessed with just.

[Allison]

Oh, I mean an ad.

[Mike]

Addicts crazy.

[Allison]

So in addition to the Deaths of Anne McFall, Rose and Fred were also responsible for the murders of 8 year old Charmaine, 16 year old Heather. Again, those are their children. And 27 year old Rena Costello. So there were also eight other victims. 19 year old Linda Go, 15 year old Carol Ann Cooper, 21 year old Lucy Partington, 21 year old Therese, 15 year old Shirley Hubbard, 18 year old Juanita Mott, 18 year old Shirley Robinson, and 16 year old Allison Chambers.

[Mike]

That is insane. And they all deserve to have their names.

[Allison]

How sad is that? That all of these young girls, they all had lives, they all had parents and family that cared about them. Yeah, they may have been going through some teenage rebellious streaks. Perhaps they wanted to get away, spread their wings, things. They had people that were looking for them and who loved them. This is just a tragedy. So despite the fact that Fred insisted that Rose was innocent, which is so ridiculous, investigators suspected otherwise because they knew it would have been impossible to turn a blind eye to what was going on in that house. So she was arrested on April 20, 1994. A detective was sent to speak with Caroline Owens. This is the girl who was the nanny who was picked up in their car and taken back to their home and then sexually assaulted by the couple, not just Fred. And this happened on December 6, 1972. And that's why Rose can't continue to say that she didn't know what was going on because Anne Marie said otherwise, Louise said otherwise, Carolyn said otherwise. So they threatened that they were going to murder her and bury her in the garden. And thankfully Carolyn was able to escape tape. But this paints a picture of what detectives know happened in all these other cases. This is exactly what happened.

[Mike]

And they're finding out about this and be like, no way did they do this together. Like, you know, they're shaking their heads because I think for me, this is the first time I've ever heard about anything like this. This is crazy, you know.

[Allison]

And the sad part was the case collapsed against them in 1973 in terms of Carolyn, because she was absolutely traumatized and she just didn't want to face case, you know, testifying against them. And they went on to kill until 1987. So it's just sad that they could have been stopped, but they weren't. So by May 6th, the couple was jointly charged with five counts of murder. But then on June 30th, Fred was charged with 12 murders, Rose was charged with nine. This eventually went up to 10. So investigators also believe Fred is linked to 15 year old Mary Bath Somb's disappearance. So this was something he wasn't charged with with, but they suspect he was responsible. The point of this is he might be responsible for a slew of more murders that we just don't know about. So Mary was working at a cafe in Glo Gloucester. Gloucester when she vanished in 1968. So her remains have never been found. Her case remains unsolved. So while he was held at HM Prison, Birmingham, in the months after his arrest, Fred became increasingly depressed and unable to cope with the fact that his wife, who he basically said he was able to mold and shape into the person that he wanted her to be. Hence the reason why he was 27 years old and he went with a 15 year old, a new 15 year old. So he couldn't cope with the fact that now Rose was turning on him. She wanted nothing to do with him. So on New Year's Day, January 1, 1995, 53 year old Fred west was found to have asphyxiated himself in his jail cell. So he basically constructed a blanket into a rope and. And hung himself.

[Mike]

Good. I mean, that's fantastic.

[Allison]

So his death was ruled a suicide and it's likely that he couldn't stand the idea of facing his crimes paired with the fact that his wife was willing to let him take responsibility for everything and the fact, like I said, that she so easily just tossed him aside. So, you know, he's looking at it like, oh, it's us against the world. Apparently not.

[Mike]

Nope, just you.

[Allison]

So he took the coward's way out to avoid facing justice for all of this horrible things that he had done. He just took the coward's way out.

[Mike]

Yeah. You would like him to go through a lot of torture and pain, but unfortunately, like there's no official way to torture anybody. So I think really just him killing himself is probably the best for all.

[Allison]

Society in the way that I see it too, is obviously every victim deserves just justice, but the sad thing is, is like the justice doesn't bring that person back. But you know, we all know that Fred was responsible for all of this.

[Mike]

Yeah. The best case scenario is that he can't do it again and once he kills himself, he's gone. So that's fantastic.

[Allison]

So Rose west went on to plead not guilty to 10 charges of murder. And her defense basically maintained this ridiculous story that she just had no idea what was going on in her house, despite the fact that everyone else is saying no. Mom knew she was in on this abuse.

[Mike]

Now she's a piece of garbage, but she was groomed from a young age. Yeah, Fred, and it's like, you know, he's probably made it normal to her, brought her into his home is like yeah. So just so you know, you can nanny my kids, but I beat the crap out of them. And you can do the same thing. Watch. And it smacks them, you know, then she's like, oh, okay. And whatever. Like, it's not okay.

[Allison]

No. And at 15 years old, what the hell are you beating up two little kids.

[Mike]

Clearly you have some problems.

[Allison]

I mean, she obviously had a horrible upbringing. So Rose's trial lasted more than a month in November of 1995. Mike, what do you think the jury came back with?

[Mike]

Guilty. Guilty.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Mike]

And she's gonna have life in prison of three years.

[Allison]

So the jury returned unanimous guilty verdicts for all 10 murders. And she became the UK's second women in modern times to be given life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

And she is still in prison.

[Mike]

Wow. You never hear that.

[Allison]

Okay, so nine of the 12 victims remains were recovered at that one home, that House of Horrors, 25 Cromwell Street. So this all happened in 1994, when everything, like I said, the lid was blown off because of the children's report. My dad threatens that we'll end up like Heather under the patio. So they were all uncovered during the investigation into the disappearance of Heather West. So Charmaine west, this is Fred's stepdaughter. She was recovered on May 4, 1994 at 25 Midland Road, the home that they shared before they moved into the House of Horrors on Cromwell Street. Her mom, Rena Costello, as well as 18 year old Anne McFall, they were found buried in two fields near the village of Much Markle. This is where Fred grew up. So otherwise everyone else was found at this house on Cromwell Street. So all of the bodies had been stuffed into cramped holes, jumbled anatomically. The victims had been decapitated. They were missing many bones. They were treated like nothing. And that is so, so sad. Because of the way that they were found, no cause of death could truly be established. I believe Strang was the cause of death with most of these girls. So there were remnants of masks or bindings on the heads of seven of the victims. Some of the masks consisted of tape that hadn't decomposed over the years. They had been wrapped around the victim's skull. Evidence within their graves proved that these victims had been brutally tortured before their eventual murders. There were beams in the cellar of the home. And mind you, they lived with like about 10 children in this home. So in the cellar there were these beams and they found that there were holes drilled in them. They were consistent with the victims being strung up while they were Beaten, raped and tortured. The horrifying picture painted images of sadistic sexual abuse that resulted in the lives of these young victims ending. We're talking about like 15 and 16 year old girls. So in some of the police tapes, Fred denied the deaths being intentional.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

He indicated that the sex was just fun and he, it somehow just all went wrong. He basically described it as enjoyment turned into disaster. So some of these victims, who again were as young as 15 years old, they were picked up while they were out hitchhiking or waiting at the bus stop. Some of them were offered a room at their home while they worked as a nanny for them. And again, I will say these girls were approached by a father and a husband and a wife. Wife who was a mother. So they have this sense of security because what kind of torture would happen in a house with 10 kids?

[Mike]

Like if it was just a single guy, you know, you'd probably have your radar up a little bit, but like, oh, husband and wife with plenty of kids, right, something.

[Allison]

So I think they used that image to lure these girls into a sense of safety. So the 20 year killing spree began in 1967, two years before Fred met Rose. Beginning with Fred's pregnant teenage mistress, Anne McFall, and ending with Heather's murder in 1987, his own daughter. So in another interview, Fred referred to a student. This is 19 year old Linda Go, one of their victims, as the first victim to be murdered for sexual satisfaction. Which is just again, him completely contradicting himself because he said it was sex gone wrong. He said she was killed for sexual satisfaction. So when she vanished In April of 1973, her parents reported her missing. She likely died like most of the victims, from strangulation and suffocation. So Linda's mom, she went to Rose and Fred's house looking for her daughter. Rose answered the door, she told her that she had left. But her mom couldn't help but notice that Rosa standing at the door wearing Linda's slippers. And meanwhile Linda's clothes are hanging on the line. So Linda's remains were found in a former car inspection pit in a garage that had been converted into a bathroom at 25 Cromwell Street. 15 year old Carol Ann Cooper, she vanished in November of 1973 when she was staying at the Pine Children's home. She had been given permission to spend the weekend with her grandmother. She disappeared after she boarded a bus back to the home after a night out on November 10th, 10th, because remember I said some of these girls were just waiting at the bus stop and that's exactly how he found Rose. So extensive searches were unable to track her down. Her body was found in the cellar at 25 Cromwell Street. Detectives concluded that the west picked her up while she was out hitchhiking. So 21 year old Lucy Partington, she was home for Christmas break from Exeter University. And on December 27, 1973, just days after Christmas, she disappeared while she was waiting for a bus to her home in Gretton. Her mother reported her missing and a massive search ensued, but they couldn't find her. Her remains were found beneath the floor at 25 Cromwell Street. There was a knife found in her grave. 21 year old TheReValer was a Swiss student who was attending college in London. She vanished at Easter in 1974 after she was out hitchhiking. She was heading to Ireland to visit a friend who was a priest. She never made it to Ireland and despite an investigation that spanned a number of years, she was never found. Her remains were located again under the floor at 25 Cromwell Street. 15 year old Shirley Hubbard was the youngest of the victims. There were several 15 year olds but just birthday wise. So she also was found at Cromwell Street. After her parents separated when she was 2, she was taken into care. And then on November 14th, 1974 when she was attending high school, she left work for home and she never made it. She was reported missing but she was never found until her remains were located in the floor of the cellar. So there were two narrow plastic tubes that were found in her grave. They were 16 and 17 inches long. They had been inserted through the front of the mask that was on her head. So these tubes were bent upward at the end of her nostrils. Her mouth had been covered with brown tape. So these, these tubes were inserted into her nose as basically a way to allow her to breathe while her mouth.

[Mike]

Was, was covered like burying her alive.

[Allison]

It was basically just the sick sexual torture that was happening. They wanted to see her struggle. It's just horrible. So 18 year old Juanita Mott, she was traveling to Gloucester when she vanished the day before her friend's wedding. Her disappearance was not reported to police though her family contacted the Missing persons bureau and as well as the media. Her remains were found in the cellar at 25 Cromwell street and then 16 year old Allison Chambers, she went to live at a children's home in Gloucester. After she ran away from home, she was known to frequently visit 25 Cromwell Street. Her parents knew that she would write. She worked as a nanny for the west children. She eventually moved in. So she vanished In August of 1979, shortly before her 17th birthday, her disappearance was reported to the Missing Persons Bureau. She was not found until her remains were found in the garden at 25 Cromwell Street. So in 1996, this home, this house of horrors at 25 Cromwell Street. It was demolished. And the surviving west children have stuck together in the aftermath of their parents crimes. I, or crimes I should say, I will tell you that's not the case as the years went by. But they think about the fact that their mother, although she's in prison, she has been given the privilege of getting a degree in English, she's had counseling, she's had a full life of hobbies. And they describe her life behind bars as living in a bubble. Meanwhile, they're lost out in the world, not knowing how to go about their lives. They feel like they have no place to be themselves. Sadly, the west children, they're estranged from one another now. They just feel like too much has gone on. It's just all too much. And when they see each other's faces, it's just a painful reminder of what their lives were. So it's sad, you know, that their, their relationships are no longer.

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean, you can't judge, not at all what it would be like to go through all that.

[Allison]

No judgment whatsoever. So according to Mae west, her mother is now 71 years old. She remains imprisoned at HM Prison New Hal in West Yorkshire. She feels that as time has gone by, Rose has only become that much higher and mightier, describing her as a hypocrite who continues to try to intervene in their lives and assert some sense of control. So in 2025, Netflix released the three episode documentary which I watched. It's called Fred and Rose West A British Horror Story and it features recently discovered police interview tapes, tapes with Fred that offer firsthand insight into their crimes. You can hear him saying, you know when he's talked about with that third thigh bone and he's talking about Shirley Robinson and like, oh, and that makes three, I mean two.

[Mike]

Oh, you can hear it.

[RealReal Advertiser]

Wow.

[Allison]

So over the course of two decades, 12 young victims were subjected to unimaginable horrors before they were ultimately murdered and tossed into the dirt as if their lives hadn't mattered, but their lives had mattered. They were daughters, sisters, students. They were loved. They will forever be missed. Their families are left to forever grapple to imagine the horrors of what their last moments on this earth were. And that is this tragic case of this despicable couple, Fred and Rose West.

[Mike]

Absolutely horrific. I don't know If I've heard a worse story like that, just it was able to go on for so long and in front of everybody. Like you said, in of front, not in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. Like it was man alive. It's a sick, sick individual that Fred.

[Allison]

And what gets me is that these girls were reported missing. They were known to be at 25 Cromwell St. How they were able to skirt by is beyond me.

[Mike]

Yeah, just appearances because the police are probably like, okay, have you heard from them? And be like, no, no, we're just here raising our kids. It's like, yeah, you don't think, well, let me check your basement. You probably have their bodies in the basement.

[Allison]

Right. You know, they say like they stopped by, they rented this house for a couple weeks and then they moved on their way and. Oh, okay.

[Mike]

And they were all about, right, like decent targets or a lot of them. Decent targets, you know.

[Allison]

Yeah. They were young girls, they moved about, but just so, so terribly sad. And you know, my heart goes out to the victims and their family members because I saw a lot of the interviews of the family members in this Netflix documentary that I mentioned and it was just heartbreaking that after, obviously after all this time, forever, they're going to feel the pain. But that the pain is so still, so raw, it never goes away.

[Mike]

No.

[Allison]

And you know, again, my, my hearts go out to you. Anyone who has lost anyone that they loved at the hands of this despicable couple, Fred and Rose West. Obviously Fred is no longer here. He's rotting in hell or wherever. But Rose is still just, you know, taking her hobbies.

[Mike]

She's just a 70 year old piece of. In jail. So. Rose, you should off yourself too. That'd be good. So thank you for telling the story. Terrible, terrible story. And if you want to listen to more stories, horrible, horrible stories. And you have a sickness, you know. Interested in these true crimes. Yeah.

[Allison]

It is fascinating that humans are so interested in these, like, because we can't wrap our heads around what would possess people to do what they do. It's just like we're watching the Netflix with Ed Gein.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

You know, I. That one was a bit much for me even.

[Mike]

It's so horrible. I'm not, I'm just kidding about the sickness.

[Allison]

Well, we all have that, you know, morbid carriers. Morbid curiosity of what would drive a human being because we're all humans here. What would make one person do such horrible things to another?

[Mike]

Yeah, like cellular. On the cellular level. We're all the same. Right. And it's just like, okay, but this guy's got these multiple. I don't even know about personality. It seemed like Rose had some different personalities, like the one sweetness and making cupcakes and having a family time and, you know, the motherly thing. But then she gets off on beating the crap out of her kids and doing sexual stuff like. Like, it's just insane. I don't get it.

[Allison]

Right. Nothing normal was happening in this house. You know, when you're half of their children, it sounds like were not born to Fred.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

You know that in itself when you've got multiple men coming through like a revolving door. That in itself for children is like, what's going on here?

[Mike]

A little confusing.

[Allison]

Very confusing.

[Mike]

That was their normal too. So I don't know if it was. I don't know.

[Allison]

But you go to your friend's house and you're like, huh? That mom doesn't have men coming into her body bedroom. They don't have tenants upstairs that are young girls that are disappearing.

[Mike]

She's not pregnant every 10 months.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

It's. It's crazy. But thank you for telling the story. It's. It's important just to be aware of what's going on out there. You never know.

[Allison]

And it's just sad that, you know, this. These children, like their home and their family should have been their safe space. And it was anything but. They just. They would have these moments at school where they felt safe, and then they ultimately had to come home at the end of the day.

[Mike]

Like, school is the best place they had to come home.

[Allison]

And that's really felt safe was at school. So just very sad. And my heart breaks for the. The west children as well.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Allison]

But anyway, we thank you guys. I'm sorry, Mike. I think I just cut you off.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like, third time.

[Allison]

I'm so sorry. Third time.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's okay. I'm not keeping count. But that's the fourth time.

[Allison]

Don't exaggerate.

[Mike]

I'm just kidding. Don't exaggerate. She. She's going to. We're going to have a little tickle fight after this.

[Allison]

No, we will not.

[Mike]

No, we will not. And if you want to hear more stories from a crime and coffee couple, every Wednesday we come out with a new bonus episode. So, you know, depending on. On if you want to be a patron or an Apple subscriber, please go ahead and check us out.

[Allison]

And I will say, if you're watching this on YouTube, I'm wearing a sweater.

[Mike]

Oh.

[Allison]

And you know, it may be November 2nd, but we're in Florida. It's hot. This sweater is from Walmart. It's really soft and cute. And it was like 23.

[Mike]

And there's no, like, we're not sponsored by any of these things. Just kind of putting it out there in case you want. I'd say Walmart has some pretty decent clothes.

[Allison]

They. They have some decent stuff. I'm actually really surprised at the quality of the sweater. But my point is, is that I'm wearing it and I'm under these really, really hot lights. And I told Mike while we were recording, I'm like, it's really hot in here.

[Mike]

He's like.

[Allison]

He goes, you're wearing a sweater.

[Mike]

We had to stop in the middle at some point. It was. Yeah. I'm like, you're wearing a sweater and you're getting angry about something.

[Allison]

I was. I was getting very angry. My computer was blowing up with text.

[Mike]

Messages, so we had to stop. And, like, we're gonna take that out.

[Allison]

But thank goodness you're here to call me down.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm like, it's just text message. Like, I can't believe I'm getting text, like, at this time. I'm like, it's just text. You just. Just don't look at them.

[Allison]

In other words, Allison is a psychopath.

[Mike]

Yes, we all know that.

[Allison]

But on that note, we thank you guys so much for being here, for listening to us. Us. Tell your friends. Have your friends tell their friends.

[Mike]

And neighbors.

[Allison]

And neighbors. Co workers, anybody, Right? But we thank you. We will be back on Wednesday with a bonus episode and the next Sunday with a regularly scheduled episode. And until next time, bye.

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[Mike]

Thank you for listening.

[Allison]

Happy holidays.

[Mike]

Want to give your host a gift?

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[Mike]

From all of us at Believe.

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