Karissa Boudreau: "Mommy, Don't" | Ep 219

Summary

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Crime and Coffee Couple – True Crime Podcast

Episode 219: Karissa Boudreau: "Mommy, Don't"

Released: November 9, 2025
Hosts: Allison & Mike

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Episode Overview

This emotionally charged episode centers on the murder of 12-year-old Karissa Boudreau in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, in 2008—a crime whose shocking details continue to haunt both the local community and the broader world of true crime. Hosts Allison and Mike present a deeply researched narrative with their signature blend of down-to-earth banter, sarcasm, and empathy for victims, exploring how Karissa’s mother, Penny Boudreau, committed an unthinkable act to preserve her relationship with a boyfriend. The case’s heart-wrenching details—the “Mommy, don’t” plea; the community’s desperate search; the extensive police investigation; and Penny’s chilling confession—are revealed in a gripping, respectful, and thought-provoking discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Small-Town Nova Scotia

[12:13]

• Karissa disappears on a cold January night (Jan 27, 2008) in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia.
• “This is a place in Canada where people lived for generations...leave their doors open at night because they trusted everyone.” – Allison [12:21]
• Penny, her mother, claims Karissa vanished from their car in a grocery store parking lot as a snowstorm approached.

Karissa’s Family Background & Home Life

[14:08]

• Karissa is the only child of Penny and Paul Boudreau, born in 1995.
• Complicated family dynamics: Penny dated Paul, became pregnant, then began a relationship with Paul’s brother, Shane, whom she later married.
• “You could basically say that to Carissa, Shane is her uncle and her stepfather.” – Allison [14:18]
• After Penny and Shane's divorce, Karissa moved between parents, ultimately living with Penny and her new boyfriend, Vernon McCumber, in a cramped apartment.
• Tension escalated between Penny and Karissa, common in pre-teen years but magnified by upheaval and an unwelcome new living situation.

The Day of Disappearance

[17:26]

• Penny describes normal events: buying subway for lunch, Karissa staying in her room, going for a drive for a “heart-to-heart.”
• They stop at Sobeys grocery. Penny claims Karissa waits in the car, but upon returning, Karissa is gone.
• Penny’s reporting timeline: Last seen by Penny around 5:40pm (CCTV confirmed), but not reported missing to police until 8:30pm.

The Search & Community Response

[21:43]

• As word spreads, the community rallies with massive search efforts and press conferences with heartfelt, now chilling, pleas from Penny for her daughter’s return.
• “Her eyes were red and swollen. She was crying. She was pleading for her daughter's safe return…” – Allison [24:09]
• Discovery of Karissa’s pink Croc (shoe) by a passing driver intensifies fears.

Discovery of Karissa’s Body & Forensic Details

[27:52]

• Nearly two weeks later, a local woman and her son find Karissa’s frozen, partially clothed body near the LaHave River (Feb 9).
• Forensic findings: ligature marks, evidence of strangulation, suggest sexual assault—but no DNA found; her body was placed with intent to mislead investigators.
• “She was wearing Winnie the Pooh underwear at this time...just such a heartbreaking image of her innocence.” – Allison [29:19]
• Emotional impact on hosts and listeners: “She was found with her pants and underwear pulled down...but there was no DNA evidence.” – Allison [31:12]

The Investigation Tightens

[33:24]

• Public reassured it’s “not a random murder”—authorities suspect someone known to Karissa, but specifics withheld.
• Penny and Vernon, though unnamed to media, are quickly identified as primary suspects, based on neighbor reports of fights and incriminating remarks (“How could you do this?” – Vernon to Penny).

Undercover Operations & The Mr. Big Sting

[37:58, 40:45]

• Innovative and controversial investigation tactic: undercover officers pose as members of a crime organization (“Mr. Big” operation, legal in Canada but not the US).
• Penny, seeking help to “make all her problems go away,” confides in an officer, ultimately incriminating herself in exhaustive detail.

Penny Boudreau’s Chilling Confession

[41:32–49:45]

• Penny details her plans: driven by a belief that losing boyfriend Vernon would be worse than losing her child.
• She describes the murder: Strangling her own daughter with twine, Carissa’s final, heartbreaking words, “Mommy, don’t.”
• “As her mom starts strangling her…all her daughter said was, ‘Mommy, don't.’” – Allison [45:23]
• She admits staging the crime scene to imply sexual assault and disposing of Karissa’s belongings to mislead investigators.
• She reenacts the murder, writes it out, and guides officers to key locations.

Legal Proceedings & Sentencing

[51:15–54:50]

• Penny is confronted with her confession video; she pleads guilty to second-degree murder, receiving a 20-year sentence (eligible for release June 2028).
• The judge delivers a memorable rebuke: “You can never call yourself mother in conjunction with Carissa's name again. And the words ‘mommy, don’t’...are there to haunt you...” – Judge Stewart, as paraphrased by Allison [52:10]

Aftermath: Parole, Community Outrage, and Legacy

[54:51–59:00]

• Penny applies for—and is temporarily granted—conditional unescorted day passes, causing outrage.
• Carissa’s father speaks of torment and guilt, echoing the community’s devastation.
• The hosts empathize deeply with survivors, denounce “evil” beyond comprehension, and highlight the injustice of early parole.

Reflections, Grief, and the Lasting Echo of “Mommy, Don’t”

[60:50–62:17]

• Mike and Allison revisit Karissa’s final moments, emphasizing the unique, unbreakable comfort typically associated with mother and child, and the horror at its betrayal.
• “Just absolutely heart wrenching. Makes tears come to my eyes...just picturing this terrified child with her mom on top of her...” – Allison [60:56]
• Both reflect on the enduring trauma for the community, the loss of a promising young life, and the inescapability of the story’s darkness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Penny’s Confession and Attitude:

• “She strangled her daughter to death on Sunday, January 27...Vernon had nothing to do with it.” – Allison [42:23]
• “All her daughter said was, ‘Mommy, don’t.’” – Allison [45:23]
• “The thought of losing [Vernon] was harder than the thought of losing her daughter.” – Allison [49:18]

On the Investigation:

• “This is that Mr. Big thing, right?” – Mike [40:45]
• “I would not be good in the Mr. Big sting operation. I’d be like, come on, just tell me what you know.” – Allison [41:06]

On the Sentencing and Aftermath:

• “You can never call yourself mother in conjunction with Carissa's name again...‘Mommy, don’t’...will haunt you for the rest of your natural life.” – Judge Stewart (as paraphrased) [52:10]
• “She’s going to be a free woman, living her life, having the opportunity to do things that her daughter will never be able to do.” – Allison [61:40]

Reflecting on Parental Duty & Outrage:

• “Nobody comes over my children. I know who I’m keeping 100. If you give me that ultimatum, you are not the person for me.” – Allison [42:07]
• “If you see Penny on the streets out there in Nova Scotia, make sure to trip her and give her a kick to the stomach...she’s a piece of garbage.” – Mike [61:30]

On the Emotional Impact:

• “The ‘mommy don’t’—that’s really heart wrenching.” – Mike [60:50]
• “The details of Carissa’s murder during Penny’s own confessions have haunted so many people...As her mother tightened the twine around her neck and she struggled to breathe, she spoke the words, ‘Mommy, don’t.’” – Allison [58:23]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 12:13 – Launch into the case: Karissa’s vanishing and initial description.
• 14:08 – Karissa’s family dynamics explained.
• 17:26 – Day of the disappearance and Penny’s evolving story.
• 21:43 – Community search efforts and media appeals.
• 27:52 – Discovery of Karissa’s body and early forensic details.
• 33:24 – Suspicions focus on Penny and Vernon; community and police response.
• 37:58, 40:45 – Undercover operation (Mr. Big) and Penny's confession.
• 41:32–49:45 – Detailed retelling of the murder, confession, and heartbreaking final words.
• 51:15–54:50 – Legal process, guilty plea, sentencing, and judge’s rebuke.
• 54:51–59:00 – Parole process, impact statements, and ongoing community outrage.
• 60:50–62:17 – Hosts’ reflections on the emotional devastation of the case.

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Tone & Style

Allison and Mike maintain their trademark blend of banter, emotional honesty, and compassion for the victim throughout, offering respectful commentary aimed at honoring Karissa while expressing justified outrage and heartbreak. Their empathy for survivors’ grief and their disdain for perpetrators come through, punctuated with moments of dark humor and pointed reflection on parenting and justice.

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Summary Takeaway

Episode 219 is a profoundly disturbing and emotional journey through a chilling case of maternal betrayal. Approached with detailed research and deep empathy, it is a testament to the importance of telling the stories of lesser-known victims—and a painful reminder of how evil can hide beneath the surface in any community. The haunting echo of Karissa’s last words, “Mommy, don’t,” remain with both hosts and listeners, leaving an indelible mark.

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Transcript

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[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode with the crime and coffee couple. My name's Allison.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

And my name's Mike.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Hello, Mike.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Hey. What has two thumbs and does a true crime podcast with his wife and is named Mike?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

This guy.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

This guy. I'm doing them. Pointing the thumbs at me right here. How's it going?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And welcome everyone. We are a husband and wife duo. I tell the story. Mike sits back. He drinks some coffee. He listens, he grunts here and there. And that's about the extent of what he adds to this episode.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

That's exactly right. It's not. It's. My mom was like, ooh, ah. Oh, ow. Ooh, that sounds bad. Something like that. And it's very similar to when you come home from a tough day and you telling me about all the different things going on. I go, wow, that sounds terrible. I'm so sorry.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

You know, sometimes you just have to vent. You don't want someone to solve your problems. You just want them to listen.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. Especially females. You taught me that early on in our relationship. You're like, you don't need to solve anything. Just listen and be there for me. I'm like, o. Okay. So I can just kind of tune out. Basically just be like, wow, that sounds terrible. I'm giving all my secrets. I'm sorry. I shouldn't make them so obvious here. So how's life going for you?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I'd say pretty good. We're gonna go tailgate at our local college game. University of South Florida, or usf, Strangely enough.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

USF is in, like, Central Florida here in Tampa area.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I wouldn't say Tampa, Central Florida.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, from the north to south, Tampa's.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Like, right in the middle center of the states.

[RealReal Advertiser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

But we're all along the west coast, correct?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, the Gulf Coast. But I also wouldn't imagine that the University of South Florida would be in Tampa.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

You'd think Miami or Fort Lauderdale, something like that.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's more like the University of Gulf Florida or something. University of Tampa, Florida, I would say, because. But there's also a university or Tampa. Yeah, University of Tampa.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah, the University of Tampa. If you've never seen it, Tampa is actually a really cool city. They've got, like, a riverwalk with the. They started to really revamp Tampa and put some new, like, restaurants and bars and things like that. But you walk along the river and you see the university across, and it's got, like, these spires or something like that. It's. I don't know. It's a really cool place.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. Like, Russian inspired. Looks like you're in Moscow or something.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Nice architecture.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. And also St. Pete, right down the road across the bridge.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. If you haven't visited this area of Florida where Mike and I live, it's actually got some really cool cities.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say Tampa's like a destination. It's not like, you know, make sure you make some time to see Tampa, but if you're ever in the area, it's worth stopping in.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

St. Petersburg, Florida, is definitely Worth it. You can go to the downtown area or hang at the beaches. Either way, you're going to be happy. So, yeah, Florida may be a swampy hell hole for about a seven months out of the year or so.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, you like to say seven when you want to make it sound better, but when you're realistic, it's really about eight. Yeah. Seven or eight.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. We're starting to get into cooler weather here in November. Finally.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my God. Woke up this morning and it was like 61 or something like that. I was like, was it 61?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Something like that. Yeah. But regardless, at the tailgate, you know, you think, okay, towards, you know, here in the season. But no, it'll probably be about 87 degrees.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. The game's at seven. I think the tailgating starts at two or something. And it's going to be. It's going to feel like 100 degrees out there.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's going to be as hot as Bulls now.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Balls are pretty hot meatballs. You wouldn't know that. Yeah. So it's. It's going to be hot, but at least it won't be super humid. So we'll figure it out. But they play at where the Tampa Bay Buccaneers play, which is the professional.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

NFL team, so, you know, I didn't even know that.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I don't even know where I'm going today. All I know is I made buffalo chicken dip, and it's going to be a wonderful taste. I said before this episode, I'm like, mike, it's gonna delight the taste buds of everybody who would taste it.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Why are you speaking?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So why are you talking like that? And I said, I don't know. It just struck me.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's gonna delight the taste bud.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's gonna just delight the taste buds of everyone who tastes it. And it's such an easy recipe. We'll share it. And it's got canned chicken, which I have to tell you, it doesn't smell too good when you open that can of chicken. Okay.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

The cats like it.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

The cats come trolling on over.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

They're like, oh, tuna. It's like, no surprise. It's chicken.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's chicken. I had to warn our daughter because she's like, oh, what smells like arse? Because it really doesn't smell great, but it tastes divine.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. And she's not feeling great. And you're like, hey, you want to smell some canned chicken? She's like, no, no, thanks. And then she moved her chair.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

But it's so easy. It feeds a crowd, and it's delicious. I'm sure you have all have made buffalo chicken dip because it is such a crowd pleaser.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

And if you haven't, then what are you doing?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I mean, come on, people. You got to get yourselves together, get on those canned chicken boots and make this stuff.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, that sounds disgusting. Imagine sliding your feet in like, unsocked fe meat into a boot. Like a rubber boot filled with canned chicken and juices. That'd be disgusting.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I was watching this reel on Instagram, and this girl had her shoes out in the garage, and she was standing on her porch so you could see her in her ring doorbell cam. She goes to put her shoe on and immediately, like, throws it off and runs in the house and this massive roach comes climbing out of it.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, gosh. That's a Florida thing for sure. I don't know if it's Florida, but the south down here, man, we have roaches all over the place. I mean, not literally, but it's like, it's not super rare to see, like, crawling across the sidewalk or something.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah, they're called palmetto bugs.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, we call them that, but they're just roaches.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

They're friggin roaches.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I mean, unless somebody's like an epidemiologist.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Epidemiologist.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, I'm. I'm using your nomenclature, man. Epidemiologist. Is that right?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I don't freaking know. All I know is I would never go into that career if that's in fact, the correct terminology for it, because I have a deep ingrained fear of bugs.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. Especially flying insects.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Oh. If you're buzzing and you're flying, or you're cr. And unfortunately, I've passed that terror along to our daughter. Yeah. And we were in Georgia and there were these spiders. Were they orb weavers?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

No, I forgot what they were, but they're not orb weavers.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Holy crap. If you are on our Instagram page, Mike held his hand up for. What's this scale?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Holy cow. I'm talking. This thing was freaking massive. It was horrifying. And then we did a bonfire at night, so we had to walk back up to the house, not knowing where in the trees these webs might be. I was so terrified. Thankfully, our son led the way, and I was still terrified. He's like, mom, I'm taller than you. I'll get any webs that might be here, but it's. It's not fun to have that fear.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, maybe there are weavers, because it says they make orb web. So I. I looked them up with Chatgpt and I asked, what is this? It said, it's a Joro spider. J O R O. Which I'd never heard of, but they're like all over Georgia. They were huge. I mean, if you're watching on YouTube, I mean, if you expand your hand from your thumb to your like index finger about that big, they're hu. And I was like, that is cool. I love spiders. I never. Like, if you go in our pool area, there's probably like six spider webs in there, like in the corners. I like to let them in there because there's like little tiny bugs that they eat. And there's one that. Did you see the trail of like all the bugs at 8?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

No. And also they start to weave their web lower and then I'm at risk for walking into it when I'm taking our dog out in the wee hours of the morning when it's dark and then I'm going to freak out and it's not going to be pretty.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Totally acceptable. And I don't blame you at all. But they never do that. I think they're trained because it's been years and I haven't seen a web like that, like below. Like I'm. I'm six two, so like, I've never seen one in my area. It's always up in the corners. I always make sure to take them down without the spider because, like, I think I'm training them. I think they're all my little friends.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

You're training them. Okay. So I watched this one girl in Australia because I guess Australia is known to have like majorly large spiders and.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Ones that can kill you. Yes.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And these ones that she talks about, I forgot what they're called, but they're harmless. But regardless. Oh my. I would die. She had like a video of one on her coffee cup and I don't even know if it's real or not that she's showing. These one was in her car. I would lose my ever loving mind if this spider was in my house and she was just chill as can be. She names them. Oh, but yeah, I forgot what they are called.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Are they like the daddy long legs or anything?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Oh, God, no, they're not dead. They're like wolf spiders. They're huge.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Huh. Interesting. Yeah, I'll have to look them up.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So I know we have listeners in Australia and I was wondering in your neck of the woods because sometimes people are like, oh, I'm not going to Australia, all those spiders. And it's like, I'm not going to let that stop Me from going there.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

No, I definitely still want to check it out. Right. I mean, there's lots of things that can kill you in Australia. Not just the spiders. Scorpions. I think, like. I mean, if you think of like, things that can kill humans, I think they're in Australia.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's like, that's well on Reddit if you're ever on. Right. It, like, it's kind of an inside joke. Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Anyhow, so we've gone off course enough. Shall we dive into this?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Is this the one? The spider.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

What is it called?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Huntsman spider.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Huntsman's spider, yeah.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, man. That's like as big as your palm. Basically, it's from your end, your palm to the. Your middle finger. Oh, my God.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

She pretends it's her roommate and she walks in the bathroom and she's like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to walk in on you and the huge. Our spider is literally in the toilet bowl. It's horrifying.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Wow, they get so big. That's cool.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And even if they're. I don't care if anyone tells me that they're harmless. If that thing is on me, consider me dead, because I'm going to just drop of a heart attack.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's not ideal to have a gigantic spider on you. I don't. I love spider. Want him on me.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Well, because I asked our son that, he's like, what are your fears, mom, other than the bugs? And I'm like, really? That's mainly it. And I said, so, Cameron, if a spider was crawling on you, the one that we saw in Georgia, you wouldn't flip out? And he's like, I don't think so. Oh, my God, I would die.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, listen to this. If a huntsman spider is in your car, it might hide behind the sun visor or the dashboard.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

That's where it was in her car. It was in the sun visor.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Okay. So that's why Aussies have stories of heart attack spiders appearing mid drive. So while you're driving, the damn thing pops out. Oh, my God. I guarantee you would crash the.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Oh, I'd go across the highway. I'd green through the highway. I have no sense of logic when a bug is involved.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Not at all. Like, you just stop what you're doing. Like your brain is in flight mode. And somehow, some way, like you're not. You will not be able to keep your mind about you and be like, I will kill people if I steer this the wrong way. You would just be like, you'd Let go and be like, I'm jumping out of the car.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And you might think I'm joking, but if you had me hooked up to a heart monitor right now, it would be through the roof. Just imagining driving down the interstate going 70 miles per hour.

[RealReal Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah, it's seeing that come crawling out of my sun visor. Forget it, I'm done.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Wow.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So, Australia listeners, if this has happened to you, if you've been driving and a huntsman spider has come out of your visor, please tell us that story and what you did and if you were able to keep control of your.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Car and if you name your huntsman spiders.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yes. Anywho, shall we dive into this murky, murky cup of coffee? All right, so this is the murder of carissa boudreau. So 12 year old carissa Boudreau, she vanished on a frigid, wintry night on Sunday, January 27th, 7th, 2008, in the quiet town of Bridgewater, Nova Scotia. This is a place in Canada where people lived for generations. And with that being said, people knew each other, neighbors knew one another, and they had the sense of safety where they might even leave their doors open at night because they trusted everyone. So Carissa's mother, this is Penny Boudreau, she walked into the Bridgewater Police Department at 8:35pm that night and she tearfully told the officers that her 12 year old daughter, Carissa Boudreau went missing. And she explained that since a snowstorm was expected to hit, she quickly ran into a Sobeys grocery store. She was picking up just a couple of things. I think she grabbed bacon and juice. But regardless, Carissa didn't want to come in with her. She waited in the car. So when Penny returned to the parking lot, she realized that her daughter wasn't there. So Carissa Paige Boudreau, she was born on October 4, 1995. She was the only child to parents Penny and Paul Boudreau. So the couple met while they were working together, incidentally, at Asobeys grocery store. And within weeks of their relationship starting, Penny realized that she was pregnant with Carissa. So obviously I mentioned that Penny's last name is Boudreaux. So one might make the assumption that she was married to Paul. Well, one might assume incorrectly. So when she was about four months into her pregnancy, Penny met Paul's younger brother, this is Shane. So the two began dating and then Penny and Shane Boudreau were eventually married. And this was about when Carissa was 5 years old. Interesting situation.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Here.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So the family lived in a nice home.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Wait, just to be clear, so Penny and Paul had Carissa.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Okay. But then, like, that was just like a fling that they had.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yes. So you could basically say that to Carissa. Shane is her uncle and her stepfather. Yes.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Cool. Fun.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So the family lived in a nice home in Bridgewater, where Carissa was an active member of their church. She was really thriving within a large group of friends. But sadly, as she started to enter her preteen years, and these are times that, you know, there's a lot happening in a person's body. There's hormones, your body is changing.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Maybe the worst time of life. I mean, you're in Perry Mennipause.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

But besides not ever say that word Perry many paws again. Because now he's getting me to the point that I'm starting to say Perry many paws.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's kind of funny.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Instead of menopause.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, well, you're in Perry menopause. But that's got to be the second worst I would imagine, compared to. To just, I mean, being a teenager and going through that adolescence, tough. Puberty's tough.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I would never go back and do it all over again if I was given the opportunity. So throughout these years that are already in itself a difficult time, all of a sudden, now Shane and Penny divorced. And this was something that truly shattered the stability and comfort within Carissa's life. While her mom moved out and got settled, though, Carissa went to live with her father, Paul, and his wife. They lived in Shelburne, Nova Scotia. This is a little over an hour's drive from where her mom was living in Bridgewater. So when Carissa decided, though, that she missed her mom and Bridgewater, she decided to go back and live with Penny. But at this point in time, Penny was already in a new relationship. And not only that, but she was sharing an apartment with her boyfriend. This is 33 year old Vernon McCumber.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Okay, so already some things going on in my head, like a kid that chooses not to stay with their mom, something.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I think it was just while every. The dust was settling and Penny was trying to figure out where her next steps were, maybe Carissa went to live with her dad, Paul, so that there was some. Some sense of, like, normalcy in her life.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Sure. No judgment, I guess. Well, a little bit, I guess. But I'm always curious why that happens.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So now all of a sudden, Carissa is coming back to Bridgewater and she's. Instead of being in this nice house where they had space to stretch out in A yard and all of this. She's now living in this tiny apartment with not only her mom, but essentially a perfect stranger to her. This is 33 year old Vernon McCumber. So based on letters that Carissa wrote, it was very clear that she was deeply unhappy with her new living arrangements in this period of her life.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Is it a one bedroom apartment?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It was, it sounded like she had her own room. Perh. Still pretty cramped, but it was very cramped and she missed Shane terribly. Again, this is her uncle Sl. Stepfather and the home that they once shared. So with this unhappiness, Penny and Carissa were really clashing. They were butting heads, they were arguing again. You know, pre teen years can be very tumultuous. There's sudden changes in your, your child's behavior. They were once maybe a docile child and now they're establishing their boundaries and their, their personalities and you have to just let that happen. We have a 13 year old daughter. It's not always easy. Sometimes you feel a sense of rejection, but you just have to roll with the punches and know that this is normal.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I'll add on top of that, a divorce and an uncomfortable living situation, there.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Was a lot going on. So basically Penny indicated that there was a lot of tension in the house. She and Vernon were often walking on eggshells, not sure what might set Carissa off and make her angry or whatever. So Penny told investigators that she had gotten Carissa lunch from Subway that Sunday afternoon. It started as a pretty normal day. Otherwise the day was typical. And Carissa spent much of her time in her bedroom, as she often did and as teens often do. So at about 4pm that day, Penny asked her daughter if they could go on a drive together. She figured that would be a good space for them to have a conversation, try to get on the same page, figure out what might make Carissa happy. Because when you're in a car together, you know, you're distracted, you're looking forward. You can't just get mad and storm off. You're kind of forced into this space together.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I'm smiling because that's how I had the conversation, the birds and the bees with our son.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

He's like, it was the worst 15 minutes of my life.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I talked about it on my Tick Tock channel and there was like a lot of people saying you basically trapped your son. I'm like, yeah, I guess. But it worked.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So okay, right? I mean you got to have that conversation. It's really a parent's duty to talk to, to our children about Those sort of things.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

So ongoing, not just once.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Right. And I don't think anytime you're going to have that conversation, it's going to be a comfortable, joyful one. So whether it be in the car or in the house.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to it. He's not. But as a parent, you have to do it, otherwise you're not a good parent.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Right. So apparently they headed over to a location that overlooked the ocean. They were just kind of having this conversation, but sadly, the conversation didn't go as well as they had hoped. They started to argue. Eventually, they drove off back in the direction of Bridgewater. And when Penny stopped at the Sobeys grocery store, you know, if they're hearing that this blizzard is coming, she wanted to grab some things. Carissa opted to wait in the car. So when Penny got back to the car, this is when she realized that Carissa wasn't there. Initially, she was not worried. She thought that maybe her daughter was mad. She got out to blow off some steam, maybe clear her head. So Penny called Vernon. He didn't answer, so she started to drive around town looking for her daughter. So, according to CCTV footage from the grocery store inside, you could see Penny walking out with her items at 5:40pm and as I said in the beginning, she didn't report her daughter missing at the Bridgewater police until 8:30. So basically three hours had gone by. So this was the point that she was basically alluding to police officers. She suspected that her daughter had run away because she was upset with her. Again, these diary entries that they later find prove that Carissa was not happy with her living situation. Maybe she did run off. So on top of driving around looking for Carissa, she told investigators she had called around to some of Carissa's friends to see had they heard from her, but they hadn't. And, you know, they truly, at this point in time, they didn't know where she was in. It's getting. It's late, it's dark out for sure and a storm is coming. So since it was January, the temperatures in Nova Scotia, they were frigid. Average highs were ranging from maybe the 30s to the low teens. This is in Fahrenheit and this is equivalent to negative 8 to 0 degrees Celsius. So not to mention the snowstorm was expected and Carissa had left her cell phone behind in the car. So had she wanted to reach out to somebody to get picked up or something? She didn't have her cell phone. And Penny also indicated that Carissa was Certainly not dressed for the cold weather. She was wearing a T shirt, jeans, a black hoodie and a black vest. She wore pink Crocs. And you know when you're driving around in a car that has heat in it, you're oftentimes not wearing a coat. So just needless to say, she was not prepared for this kind of cold weather. So there was a concern, there was a sense of urgency that they needed to find Carissa quickly because she's not dressed properly, she doesn't have a cell phone. Where is she? No one has heard from her. So when Monday came and went and there was still no sign of Carissa, fear within the community it was palpable. And this is a small community where everyone knows everyone. Word is spreading around and people naturally want to come and help.

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[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So a media alert was issued and a full scale search effort began with all hands on deck. And this included volunteers and officers who searched all of the surrounding areas. So on Tuesday, January 29, this is two days after Carissa went missing. There was still no sign of her, and the Bridgewater Police Department held a press conference to appeal to the public for any information. Did someone see Carissa walking along the street? That sort of thing. So Penny sat before the cameras. Her eyes were red and swollen. She was crying. She was pleading for her daughter's safe return, asking Carissa, please just come home. You know, we just want you to be safe. She begged anyone who had any information to come forward with. You know, that could might maybe lead to helping to find Carissa.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Sure.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So that same day, a man was driving down William Heb Road. This is in Hebsville, maybe a five minute drive from Bridgewater, so very close by. So he's driving, and all of a sudden a flash of pink catches his eye. And he recalled what he heard in that press conference, that one Carissa was last seen, she was wearing pink Crocs. So he decided to stop his car and take a closer look at what he was looking at. And when he stopped, he realized, oh, my goodness, this is a pink Croc, and maybe it's. It belongs to Carissa. So he handed it over to the police. And Tess went on to prove that the shoe did belong to Carissa, yet there was still no sign of the young girl herself. And this is just a detail that made everyone's heart sink, because why would her shoe be missing?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, not good.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's just not a good sign. So on February 1st, this is five days after Carissa went missing, another press conference was held. And once again, Penny made an emotional peel appeal. Excuse me. For her daughter's safe return. This time, she had Vernon sitting next to her, as well as Paul Boudreau, Karisa's father. Basically just a gesture of support for her. So days turned into weeks, and there was still no sign of Carissa. And since the Sobeys grocery store, where Penny indicated that Carissa vanished from, they didn't have surveillance cameras at the parking lot. We saw Penny walking in and out of the store, but not the parking lot. So there was no indication as to how Cariss left the car. Was she walking off on her own volition? Did she get into someone's car? Or had she potentially been Taken against her will. So because children of Carissa's age, you know, they're 12 years, she's 12 years old, they're not normally gone for a very long time. You know, they may get mad and storm off, maybe even go and hide somewhere to give their parents a sense of fear. One time I hid behind my parents couch and I wanted to hear how long it took for them to get concerned for me.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I hit on the front porch once.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's just so stupid. So you know, the point is, is that oftentimes they're, they're not going to be gone for very long, especially when it's this cold out and it's a snowstorm is coming in. So basically it was telling officers that it was very unlikely that she was just gonna be coming home unharmed, that she hadn't left on her un own accord and that potentially something terrible had happened to her. So the odds of her returning home safely were greatly dwindling as time went by. So on February 6, this is 10 days after Carissa vanished. Search efforts, efforts expanded to the Lehave river where divers were braving the icy waters. Meanwhile, air and ground teams were combing as much area as possible. So as with all the previous searches though, there was just no sign of Carissa. And her case had gained tremendous media attention. And the community was truly dedicated to raising awareness about her disappearance because they empathized with Penny that it must be just so tragic to not know where your daughter went.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, any mother would be like, you know, I'm just absolutely devastated.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Right. And you, your reaction is you want to help, help. So it wasn't until three days later, this is nearly two weeks after Carissa was last seen, when the truth finally came to light. And this happened on February 9th. So it was about 11:35 in the morning and a woman called 91 1, she indicated that they, she was traveling along a rural highway. This is Highway 331. And just incidentally, she's with her nine year old son and her son tells her, mom, I have to go to the bathroom. In the, in a rural area, you just pull off and let your, your son get out of the car and just pee on the side of the road. So he walked to the edge of an embankment for privacy. This area was overlooking the Lehave River. This is the river where divers had gone into to look for Carissa. So he's standing there literally relieving himself and suddenly he kind of sees something small and pale sticking out of the snow. So he called out to his mom, because it just didn't look right to him. So she rushed over and she was horrified that as she looked more closely, that she was looking at bare human toes that were emerging from the snow. So realizing that they were looking at a human body, she immediately ran back to the road. She flagged down a passing car. I think she was probably in shock.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

She wanted the driver to basically see what she was seeing. Like, please help me confirm that what I'm seeing is true.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I'm not crazy.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

The driver was like, yes, that's exactly what it is. So obviously she reached out to police. She contacted 91 1. So officers from the Bridgewater PD, they quickly arrived and they secured the scene before the RCMP Major Crimes Unit arrived as well. So they were able to determine that the body was of a young white female who fit the description of Carissa. They knew that this was Carissa, but obviously they have to do the proper testing to ensure that. So the community's worst fears had become reality. Carissa had not run away. Something terrible had happened to her. But what was it? So when Carissa's remains were recovered, authorities noted that her jeans were pulled down. They were only attached to her right lower leg. In her Winnie the Pooh underwear had been pulled down as well. That's just such a heartbreaking image of her innocence. Yeah, she's wearing Winnie the Pooh underwear at this time. So she was otherwise wearing a pink T shirt, a gray bra, a brown sock with colorful horizontal stripes. The other matching sock was found inside her jeans. Some of the items of clothing that Penny had reported her daughter to be last wearing, they were missing altogether. We know that croc came off because that driver found it along that road. But the other croc was nowhere to be seen. She was also missing a hoodie of in a vest. So, Chief forensic pathologist within Nova Scotia, this is Dr. Matt Bose. He arrived on scene and he determined that Carissa's body had been placed at the scene prior to the onset of rigamortis. So she was positioned in a splayed out manner and had likely been placed that at this location shortly after her time of death, based on the fact that rigor mortis had not set in. So because she had been found with her pants and underwear pulled down and her shirt was pulled up as well, it was exposing her midriff. This obviously suggested that a sexual assault had taken place. However, I will tell you that no DNA evidence was found to suggest that this was the case. So since the temperatures were so frigid, And Carissa's body had been in a snowbank for all this time, nearly two weeks. Her body was sadly frozen solid. So this delayed the completion of the autopsy until four days later on February 13, because they had to allow her body to thaw. That's just such a sad detail. So with the input of a dental surgeon, as well as Chris's dental records, as well as casts of her upper and lower teeth, Dr. Bose was able to positively say what they believed all along, that this young female victim was Carissa Boudreau. Her cause of death was determined to be asphyxiation via strangulation. So it was kind of obvious because there were ligature marks on her neck. Other than these ligature marks, though, there were no other injuries whatsoever to Carissa's body. And because this was an active investigation, this information at this point in time was not released to the public because, of course, they want to keep the details close to their chest just in case. So, obviously, word is spreading around that remains of a young female were found, and the media's hearing all of this. So community members within Bridgewater were truly terrified because someone had done this to Carissa. Who was it? Is this crazy person on the loose? Are their children at risk?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. Do you have people just snatching kids out of cars and murdering them?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Super scary.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And not to mention, this is a community where stuff like this just didn't happen. Like I said, it's a place where people would leave their 12 year old in an unlocked car while they ran into the grocery store. They would leave their front door unlocked overnight. So in the days that followed, investigators assured the public, though, that they didn't believe that this was a random murder. They were basically telling them, you don't need to worry. We feel this is an isolated incident. So Bridgewater Chief of Police, this is Brent Crowhurst. He encouraged the residents of the town to not panic. That, again, Chris's murder was an isolated incident.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, but why do you think that? You know, maybe you got to tell the public a little bit. And, like, as a person in the public, I'd be like, well, until you tell me exactly why you think that, and I agree with that sentiment, then I'm gonna assume that there's a killer on the list.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And he did. He reassured the public that There were about 20 investigators from both the local force as well as the RCMP that were working around the clock on this case in order to bring the person responsible to justice. He also indicated that two residents of Bridgewater were brought in for Questioning. And they were held for 24 hours before they were released.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Not released. That's the problem.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Right. So their identities at the time were not revealed to the public.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Could be anybody.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

But they were telling the media that it was very, very likely that Carissa knew her killer or killers. Okay, so what the public did not know at the time. Who do you think these two people are?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

It's gonna be Penny and Shane Vernon.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Vernon, her boyfriend.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Right, Right.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So these unnamed residents were Penny and Vernon. So they were brought in. They were held for 24 hours. So despite the fact that they had been released, though, investigators did feel very confident that they had been responsible for Carissa's murder.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

What's the point of not telling the public that who they interviewed?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I think at that point in time, they just wanted to keep it down so that they can get the information they needed to get.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I mean, it's almost like unnecessary. It's like, well, we have strong feelings. I mean, that maybe for the court of law, like, you can't make it like a libel situation or something. Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I don't know. So on February 11th, authorities spoke with neighbors that lived in the apartment that was situated beneath Penny and Vernon's. So apparently this apartment building where they lived, it was very poorly insulated. You can kind of hear everyone everywhere.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

That's nice.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Including the neighbors below. So I guess one night they got into an argument. Penny and Vernon. I think Vernon had had something to drink. He was feeling pretty tipsy, so he wasn't necessarily in his right state of mind. He wasn't monitoring the volume of his voice, thank goodness. So basically what the neighbors were telling police was that they could hear Vernon throwing things around the apartment. He was very angry. He was saying over and over, pen, how could you do this? He told her that he was disgusted with her, that she had gotten him involved, and that he was not going to help her. So before learning this information, though police were already convinced that Penny was a potential suspect. This had really only solidified what they already believed. So on February 14, when Penny and Vernon were brought back to the Bridgewater Police Station, they were informed that the remains that had been found days earlier had positively been identified as Carissa. And I guess Penny showed very little emotion, which is very alarming because when you are told for sure that the body that was found discarded on the side of the road in a Snowbank was your 12 year old baby girl. I wouldn't even be able to function.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

You'd feel like going to a shock.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. But she didn't she didn't show emotion. She also didn't say, how did she die, what happened to her? Nothing.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

So can I see my baby and whatever.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I mean, yeah. You never know how you're going to react. Like we always say, it just didn't.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Seem typical to investigators, especially after being.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

On TV and crying and showing all this emotion.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So, basically, they were then arrested. Vernon and Penny were arrested. They were interviewed. Though Penny asked for a lawyer. She declined to make a statement. So while Penny and Vernon remained in custody, again, on February 14, the police planted an undercover officer in Vernon cell. So this undercover officer claimed to be a member of a crime organization that was based out of Montreal, and he mentioned that he might have some job opportunities for Vernon. So since investigators didn't have enough evidence to continue to hold Penny and Vernon, they were released within 24 hours. However, this undercover officer maintained contact with Vernon. They met on several occasions over the next several weeks. And rather than pushing Vernon for information, he wanted to be very patient. He didn't want to spook him. So he just slowly but surely built trust with Vernon, which then led him maybe to start talking.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So, moving Forward now to February 28, a member of the public was out near a playground, and he was looking through trash bins to see if there were any recyclables. So when he looked inside this one particular particular can, he notice what he believed was a pink sandal inside? He didn't think anything of it. He moved along. But then later that day, he was chatting with his fiance, and he mentioned what he saw. It dawned on her that Carissa was missing that one croc. So they went back to this garbage can in question. Lo and behold, it was a pink croc.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Wow.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And it was the same size and match to Carissa's other shoe.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

What are the chances? That's crazy.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I know. And this we're talking, like, a long time after. Yeah, a month later.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, that's what I was thinking. They dumped it in some garbage somewhere, and you can't find it ever again.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Again. And then on top of that pink croc, they also found a vest and a hoodie in there. So police were fully aware that although they had a lot of circumstantial evidence that, you know, prove that Penny was likely guil guilty of her daughter's murder, they didn't have any physical evidence. They wanted to guarantee a conviction, so they needed more information, and they came up with a plan. So after Penny and Vernon were released from jail, they went ahead and relocated from their Apartment in Bridgewater. They moved over to Halif. Facts. So on April 16, Vernon had a meeting with this guy that he didn't realize was an undercover officer. So during this time, Vernon was making comments that were indicating that he had nothing to do with Carissa's murder. He mentioned that he had been asleep at the time that she went missing. He told the man that he did believe, though, that Penny was responsible. So he said that he was only staying close with Penny and continuing to live with her because he didn't want her to implicate him, to suddenly shift and throw him under the bus. So on May 3rd, this undercover officer in question convinced Vernon that the services that they needed for whatever organization they were running, they needed the help of a female. So he asked if Vernon would help enlist Penny's help. So during this meeting with Penny this happened on May 14, she voiced her frustrations that the media reports had named her place of employment. So people were coming and harassing her, as well as the potential value of DNA evidence. She was telling this officer that she wished the police exhibit vault would burn down or blow up. So on June 11, Penny met with another undercover officer, and this person led her to believe that because he was the head of this whole crime syndicate, that he could potentially make all of her problems go away.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

This is that Mr. Big thing, right?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

The Mr. Big sting operation that is not legal in the United States.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Right.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So. And it's a slow burn. This whole operation is a very slow burn because you have to gradually build a person's trust, not raise any alarm bells. So you can't rush a situation. I would not be good in the Mr. Big sting operation. I'd be like, come on, just tell me what you know.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I'd be great.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Great. Yeah, you would be. You're very patient. So again, you know, he's telling her, I can make all of your problems go away. So in order for him to help her, though, he said, you have to tell me everything. I need to know all the details of this case so that I could properly help you.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

That makes complete sense.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And this is exactly how one of the other cases we did, that's exactly what they said. They're like, you need to tell me everything so I can make these problems go away.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Way. Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So Penny went on to tell this.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Man, that is dumbass that said everything. Good. Good for you. Stupid, stupid ass. Penny. Part of my French.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So she started it all by saying that she and Vernon had been having issues in the relationship because of the tensions that were rising with their cramped living situations once Carissa came and moved in with them. So Vernon was so fed up that he had actually given Penny an ultimatum. It's either me or Carissa. And that would be the time I'd say, see that front door? Get the F out of my house. Nobody comes over my children. Yeah, that's.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I know who's who.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I'm keeping 100. And if you give me that ultimatum, you are not the person for me. So Penny then told the undercover officer that she strangled her daughter to death on Sunday, January 27. She elaborated that Vernon had nothing to do with it.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

That's insane, man.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So according to Penny, she and Carissa had gone out for that drive on Sunday. This was not a lie. They left the house somewhere around 3 or 4pm they were talking as they drove for a couple of hours. They drove over to Lunberg and back until they both started to get angry with one another. And Penny said that things got a little out of hand. And she said she did what she had to do.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I wonder if her plan all along was to kill her.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

You'll find that it was planned for days.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Okay, okay.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So she said that she drove to the sobes at about 5.30pm and CCTV proves that this is true. She went inside to pick up some juice and bacon, but Carissa waited in the car. At this point, that was not a lie either.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

She was already dead.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

No, she was still alive at this point. So she called Vernon. She left him a message on his phone. She was saying that when she came out of the store, Carissa was missing. So she's already starting to establish a story with Vernon, even before Carissa was dead. So when she got back to the car, Carissa was there. She was waiting inside the car as Penny had lied and said she was gone. So Penny goes to the trunk to put the groceries in, and in that time, she grabbed a piece of beige twine and she put it in her pocket, since she knew she needed to do away with her daughter, is what she tell tells this undercover sicko. So Carissa wanted to get out of the car because they were in the midst of an argument. She wanted to just get away from her mom. But Peggy waited until it got dark outside. I'm sorry, Penny. Yes. Thank you. So Penny wanted to wait until it was dark outside because she knew what she was going to do, and obviously she didn't want any witnesses. So she drove over to William Hub Road. This is the location where that driver found the single croc on the side of the road. That happened on January 29th. So she stops the car at this location. It's dark out now. And she tells Carissa, okay, if you want to get out, you can get out. So Carissa did. She climbed out of the car, and she said to the officer that she couldn't let her daughter live and go back and tell people what a horrible mom that she was. So they both got out of the car in the darkness of the snowy night. And when Penny went to grab her daughter, it was. Was slippery. And she said that she pushed. Sl. Tackled her. And this caused Carissa to fall to her back. And Penny said that Carissa was scared. Of course she was. Her mom is suddenly tackling her in the side on the side of the dark road. So in this time, Penny used her knee and she put it on her daughter's chest to hold her down. And since Carissa's hands were under her, because probably she fell back and tried to catch herself, and that pinned her hands behind her, under her. She was unable to fight back. So at this point in time, they are face to face. And as her mom starts strangling her, this is what Penny tells the officer, that all her daughter said was, mommy, don't.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, God, how heartbreaking. That's. That sucks.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I mean, as a mother, you are supposed to be the source of comfort and care in your child's life. And this mother is on top of her daughter, putting a piece of twine around her neck and strangling her. And this poor, innocent little girl says, mommy, don't.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

That's so incredibly sad. And every time I hear bull crap like this, I think the people. Countless people that would love to have a beautiful child and love them and care for them, and this crazy, insane woman is choosing Vernon and also killing her own child like that. That's. Choose whatever you want, but don't freaking kill your child.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And Carissa would have been fine to go back and live with her father.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, clearly. Because that's what she did initially. Because clearly she noticed something in Carissa. Or not Chris and Penny. I mean, it's Penny's. Sucks, man. God, you suck, Penny.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So Penny placed the twine around her daughter's neck, and she pulled it in a crisscross motion with every bit of the strength that she had until she could no longer feel her daughter breathing. As she was strangling her, Penny could feel her daughter trying to free her hands that were digging into the ground, trying to get free so that she could save herself. She said that Carissa's eyes were Bulging, and her tongue was between her teeth. Meanwhile, foam was coming out of her mouth. This was a very personal murder. They were face to face. While this was happening, she slowly watched the life drained out of her daughter's body. The body that she gave birth to and brought into this world. She watched come out of this world.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Penny's not a normal person. I mean, that's. That's absolutely sick.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

She's telling this undercover officer that she could hear her daughter struggling for air, but she held the rope tightly. When Carissa was no longer breathing, Penny dragged her body to the passenger side of her car, and she put her body in a heap on the floor of the car. She drove to Bridgewater. She was trying to figure out what to do next. She placed the twine in an empty Tim Hortons cup, and she then threw this cup into the trash can at Tim Hortons on High Street. She then drove to the turnaround spot where Carissa's body was ultimately found. She parked her car, and she turned the lights off because she didn't want anyone to see her. She dragged her daughter's body from the car, using her jeans as leverage. And in the process, her jeans, her underwear, and her striped sock came off as she dragged her to the embankment. She didn't plan this. It just happened. And as she saw her daughter, her body is now exposed. She figured this could work in her advantage. It would make people believe that Karisa had been sexually assaulted. So her vest and her hoodie came off, and by this time, her jeans were only attached to one leg. She rolled her daughter's body over the edge of the embankment, knowing that snow was in the forecast, knowing that her daughter's body would soon be concealed by snow and would likely not be found for some time. So as she pushed Carissa's body over the edge, it landed among the trees, but it didn't reach the river. So after she left, she took Carissa's hoodie and her vest, as well as that single croc. She threw it into the garbage can, where it was later recovered by that man who was looking for recyclables. She's realizing, though, at this point in time that she only has one croc and that somewhere along the line, that other croc went missing. Well, we know it went along that road, William Hub Road. So after she got home, sometime between 7 and 7:30pm she told Vernon that Carissa was missing. She painted the picture that she got back to the car. She wasn't in there. And then she contacted the police. 8. 8:30. She contacted family, friends, as well as Chris's teachers to see had anyone heard from her. So Penny told the undercover officer that she would do anything for Vernon. And the thought of losing him was harder than the thought of losing her daughter. So not only did she verbally tell this undercover officer exactly what she had done, she also did a whole physical reenactment with this officer. She used a pen and paper, she wrote a detailed version of events. She also agreed to drive back to each location, you know, that they had touched. Where she murdered Carissa, where she dumped her body.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

And the undercover cops, like, yeah, we could do that. I mean, just to be sure that I know exactly what to do.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And once again, while they were at these areas in question, she re enacted this whole situation. How she strangled her daughter, how she threw her daughter's remains over this embankment. She told this officer that she had been considering the murder over the course of several days until she actually went. Went through with it. So I don't know if when they climbed in the car that day, if their conversation had remained calm, if she wouldn't have gone through with it. But at some point in time, you know, being a 12 year old and a mother, they're gonna butt heads. Tensions are already high. Yeah, one way or the other, she was going to kill her daughter. So when they got back to Halifax, Penny gave him an article of clothing that she mentioned she had been wearing at the time that she murdered her daughter. I mean, she wrapped up this whole case in a nice little gift box. She, you know, put a big bow on the top of it and handed it to the police.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

This cops walking into the station like, hey guys, got everything we need?

[RealReal Advertiser]

Yep.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So on the morning of June 14, 2008, Penny Boudreau was arrested and she was interviewed by the truth verification section of the rcmp. So during this time, she's trying to say she's not guilty, but of course they're showing her this whole video slash audio clip of her entire confession, like Penny.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

So why would you say all this then? Because you said it and you definitely did it, and that's exactly how it happened. So help explain that.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So as soon as she sees this video and hears her voice, she became visibly shaken because she knew that there was absolutely no way out of it. She soon then sat with those officers and gave them an account of what led to her daughter's death. On January 27, 2008, she fully confessed, just as she had with the undercover officer. So In January of 2009, this is one year after Carissa's murder, Penny pleaded guilty to second degree murder. She was originally charged with first degree murder, but she agreed to plead guilty to a lesser charge. I don't understand that. They had her, like, everything she confessed. She also confessed to the fact that this was premeditated.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Right.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

She had planned this for days. She had put that twine in the trunk of her car for that reason. So why did they need her to plead guilty to a lesser charge? I don't understand.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So during her sentencing, Judge Stewart told her, you can never call yourself mother in conjunction with Carissa's name again. And the words, words, mommy, don't, From a trusting and loving Carissa, are there to haunt you. And for the rest of your natural life, how do you go face to face with your child? Put twine around their neck, strangle the life out of them as they're trying to say, mommy, don't. You are a special kind of evil.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So she was sentenced to 20 years in prison, which means she has a Release date of June 13, 2028.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Like, why hasn't anybody killed her in prison? Like, you're.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

You're.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

She sucks so bad. Like, oh, God.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

However, under the Corrections and Conditional Release act, she is now eligible to apply for unescorted passes. This includes day parole that allows her to go free and wander around. So In June of 2025, Penny did apply for unescorted time away from jail. This would automatically prompt a review by way of a hearing. So under this APP act, she is eligible for day parole for rehabilitative purposes. Basically, the way they do this is it gradually ingrains her back into the community so that she's ready upon her release. So she is required to return. Return. Excuse me, to a halfway house each night unless otherwise authorized by the parole board. So during this hearing, Carissa's father, Paul. Paul Boudreaux. Excuse me. He read from a statement indicating that his daughter's death left him with this huge void in his life. Obviously, of course, he went on to say, am I a failure as a father? Should I have seen this coming? This turmoil has lowered my self worth to a very low point. Life will never be the same for many of us. So the two member panel from the parole board led the hearing. They heard that Penny had completed all these different programs while she was behind bars. She received treatment from a mental health team while she was working as an assistant to the chaplain at the Nova Institution for Women in Truro. A panel member felt that she had made good use of her time behind bars that she had been productive while she had been in prison. So according to a psychological risk assessments, many of them that have been done, they feel that she is at low risk to reoffend. The panel did hear that Penny is at high risk for entering into an unhealthy, intimate relationship. We know that if you are going to go as far as to murder your child over a boyfriend giving you an ultimatum, you're a very weak person.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Don't point to me.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

I'm sorry, I'm just very, you know, what's the word?

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Worked up?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

No, I'm worked up, but I'm also big with my hands.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So when she spoke during the hearing, her voice was very meek. It was barely higher than a whisper. And at times she struggled to answer questions, questions as to how she would cope in various life situations.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Who gives a rat's ass?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

This parole board gives a rat's ass. So they're giving her scenarios because when you're lifing, things happen and you have to be able to deal with them. So several times she did lose her composure. She wiped tears from her eyes as she sobbed F off Penny.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So many people are outraged at her request, which has been viewed as an early release, as people remember these moments back in 2008 when this woman had the gall to sit in front of cameras and make these tearful appeals to her daughter's self return, knowing that her body was down an embankment, freezing.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

She lied to her community and she's. And everybody. And so it's like, I mean, really, if she's let out, we should like take turns choking her with a, you know, some twine. I think that'd be good, you know, not kill her, but just like really scare her a lot. Spot.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So after Carissa left her father's house to live in the small apartment with her mom and Vernon, who was a complete stranger to her. Tensions were high. The tight quarters caused friction. You know what that's called life with a teenager. And that's just what you do as a parent. You nurture and love your child no.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Matter what, even if the teenager is really out of hand. It's like, that's life sometimes, right?

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

And Carissa wasn't. She was a 12 year old, defiant little girl. Her. Her dad said that, that she did have a little rebellious streak. She had an opinion, you know, she.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I love that.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Exactly. So Carissa's diary, again, it indicated clearly that she resented living with her boyfriend, that she was mourning the loss of the life that she had with her mom and shane. So the 12 year old 6th grader was missing for 13 days until her frozen body was found. In between those days, there were frantic searches that involved helicopters, police dogs, divers, worried residents that came together across Nova Scotia to help find this little girl. The community of Bridgewater came together to raise money to help Penny and her family as they watched what they thought was this young, desperate mother who was pleading and crying for her daughter's safe return, all the while knowing that she had been the person to kill her. Because of her model behavior in prison over the past seven years, Penny has been regularly granted escorted temporary outings. In these outings, she attends church services, Bible study meetings. She even visited a friend that she met at the congregation. And meanwhile, her daughter has no opportunity to live her life.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

I mean, are you crazy to talk to this woman? Like, I, I guess at a church, that's probably the best place because, you know, redemption, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, you're, you suck if you were like, taking her over as a friend, like, she can go to hell while, like, I don't care who, what church she goes to.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So the board has received many victim impact statements and a slew of letters that obviously oppose any type of release. Ultimately, the board members made the decision to review Penny's case again in six months. So they urged her to continue to focus on her mental health treatments while reporting any new relationships with men and confirming if she had. If this person she may or may not be dating has any parental responsibilities for someone under the age of 16.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, because likely you're gonna kill them.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So although her request for day parole was denied, she has been granted unescorted day passes from prison for 60 days, where she'll be required to then return to this halfway house at night. Basically, she's just slowly getting released from this leash and living her life. And meanwhile, Carissa's life ended in the most violent way at age 12. And that just breaks my heart. So meanwhile, there's a memorial that remains at the bank of the Lehave river where Carissa's body was found. The details of Carissa's murder during Penny's own confessions have haunted so many people. How she dug her hands into the frozen ground. How she tried to desperately protect herself from the very person who was meant to protect her. As her mother tightened the twine around her neck and she struggled to breathe, she spoke the words, mommy, don't. Regardless, Penny continued to tighten her grip. She pulled that twine even tighter. To this day, Carissa's last Words, you can't forget them. Once you hear mommy, don't. It's just etched into your memory, in your mind. And so many people's hearts are broken about this case because there was so much vested in Carissa's, you know, trying to find her, hoping and praying that she would be found alive life. And then to find out what truly happened to her. People just were so stunned. So the fact that Penny chose a man over her own child left her body in the snow to appear as if she had been sexually assaulted, leaving her exposed and vulnerable. Although Vernon McCumber told Penny that she had to choose between him or her daughter, never did he think that Penny was going to murder Carissa. He has never been implicated in Carissa's murder. He has never faced charges. So Carissa, she had been a typical 12 year old little girl. She loved swimming, stuffed animals, listening to music, playing with her Nintendo ds. She had only recently finished a babysitting course through Bridgewater Elementary School. She was hoping that she could earn some extra money and babysit. She was a friendly child. She had a love for animals. She hoped to one day become a veterinarian. But sadly, she never had the opportunity to fulfill any of her life's dreams because she lost her life at the hands of her own mother. And that is the sad and tragic murder of Carissa Boudreau.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Absolutely unthinkable stuff, man. I just like the. The mommy don't. That's really heart wrenching.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Just absolutely heart wrenching. Makes tears come to my eyes as I'm doing this research and just picturing this terrified child with her mom on top of her, with her knee pressed into her, putting twine around her neck. What her final thoughts must have been in that moment.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

And it's really crazy. Like Penny remembered that and then shared it. Like, if anything, you'd almost want to pretend like she didn't say that if you were any kind of. Had any kind of heart left in there, but clearly nothing. It's just like. Yeah, she even said mommy, don't.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

She told the author anyways. Yep. And reenacted it like several times.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, if you see Penny on the streets out there in Nova Scotia, make sure to trip her and give her a kick to the stomach. Stomach. And you know, maybe just welcome back to society kind of thing because she's a piece of garbage.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It's just hard to wrap your head around that in three short years, she's gonna be a free woman, living her life, having the opportunity to do things that her daughter will never be able.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

To do, hope she falls down a sewer hole or something and just, you know, ends her.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

Just the worst kind of female mother. Like as a, again, I say as a mother, it is, you know, we're the source of comfort. I know you are a comfort to our children. No doubt.

[RealReal Advertiser]

Sure.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

But there's just something about a mom, like whenever I was sick, I would be like, I want my mom. You know, it's just to think that somebody did this over a man.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Well, it's a person you grew inside really kind of gave you life, you know, it's just, it's really sick.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It is sick. But anyway, we thank you all for being here with us, for following us, listening to us. If you wouldn't mind, a five star review on Apple would be, you know, so, so appreciated. I know it's a pain in the neck to go over and leave a review, but if you like what you hear, it's not there. It'll just take you maybe a minute. If that's. Yeah, a minute, 30, 45 seconds, we'll say, yeah. So if you like what you hear, we would so greatly appreciate that if you would head on over to YouTube and click the subscribe button. Our son is really working hard on our YouTube video edits.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Yep. We appreciate you, buddy. He's watching us right now.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

So anyway, thank you guys. We, we hope you're having a good week. Be safe. You never know what's going on out there. And love one another, love one another. As Julie Chen would say, I'm big brother. Until next time.

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[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[Allison (True Crime Podcast Host)]

It really does help the show to grow.

[Mike (True Crime Podcast Co-host)]

Thank you for listening.