The Glensheen murders | Ep 247

Summary

Crime and Coffee Couple – The Glensheen Murders | Episode 247 (May 31, 2026)

Episode Overview

Allison and Mike explore the infamous Glensheen murders: a chilling 1977 double homicide at a lakeside mansion in Duluth, Minnesota. Through Allison's deep-dive research and Mike's first-time real-time reactions, the couple unpacks the story of heiress Elizabeth Congdon and her devoted nurse, Velma Pietila—both brutally murdered in a case swirling with family greed, betrayal, and a decades-long web of crimes. Their trademark banter lightens the darkness, but they never lose sight of the tragedy—and the chaos—at the Glensheen estate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The Glensheen Estate and Family Background

• Glensheen Mansion: Five stories, 39 rooms, 32,000 sq ft, built in 1908 on 12 acres along Lake Superior, Duluth, Minnesota (06:02). Described as "frozen in time," with family items still in place (13:04).
• Congdon Family: Chester Congdon (an upstate NY lawyer who found massive success in Minnesota’s mining boom) and wife Clara rose from modest beginnings to wealth and philanthropy. Elizabeth, their youngest daughter, inherited Glensheen, becoming one of Minnesota’s wealthiest women (07:54).
• Adopted Daughters: Elizabeth adopted Marjorie (born Jacqueline Barnes) and Jennifer in the 1930s, but their relationship was complex and, over time, strained (09:13).

The Murders: June 27, 1977

• Crime Details: Night nurse Velma Pietila (not scheduled to work, filling in for a colleague) was bludgeoned with a candlestick on the landing; Elizabeth, partially paralyzed from a stroke, was smothered in her bed (06:48–20:49).
• Discovery: The nurse’s body was found by the day nurse, Mildred Garvo, who then discovered Elizabeth’s corpse and sounded the alarm (16:31).
• Initial Theory: Police first labeled it a "robbery gone wrong" due to missing valuables (including a gold coin and jewelry). (20:49).

Suspicion and Investigation: The Marjorie and Roger Connection

• Suspicion Falls: Attention turns to Elizabeth’s adopted daughter Marjorie and her husband Roger Caldwell after Roger is seen with unexplained injuries at the funeral (21:53).

• Family's Warnings: Relatives urge police to examine Marjorie’s troubling history—manipulative, potentially sociopathic, and with a string of strange incidents (22:41). Notably, a prior marmalade poisoning attempt on Elizabeth is highlighted (23:00).

• Financial Motive: Roger and Marjorie were deeply in debt, desperate for money, and stood to inherit over $8.2 million—worth nearly $44 million in 2026 (24:30).

  • Quote: “So did you have that information... $8.2 million... It looks like $43.71 million [today].” (24:30, Mike)

• Behavioral Red Flags: Extravagant and reckless spending by Marjorie, whose trust fund was already gone; constant expectation of financial bailouts from her mother (26:44). Trustees eventually cut her off, further intensifying financial strain (28:13).

• Evidence Mounts:

  • Envelope postmarked in Duluth—with Roger’s fingerprint and the missing coin—sent to their Colorado home the day before the murders (31:34).
  • Airport and car evidence point to someone fleeing after the murders; suit bag bought the same morning, staff identify Roger (33:41).

The Legal Battles: Trials and Twists

• Roger Caldwell's Trial (1978):

  • Moved out of Duluth due to Congdon influence.
  • Largely circumstantial evidence: hair, blood type, witness IDs, missing jewelry, but no “smoking gun.”
  • Roger found guilty of both murders; sentenced to two consecutive life terms (38:34).
  • Quote: “They found him guilty of both murders. So he was then sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison..." (38:34, Allison)

• Marjorie’s Trial (1979):

  • Presented as the “mastermind,” not the killer—she allegedly orchestrated the crime for Roger. She was proven to be out of state, while suspicions lingered due to her detailed knowledge of the mansion (40:53).
  • Acquitted after charming jurors—some even hugged her post-verdict (42:04).
  • Memorable moment: “She even brought a chocolate cake for everyone to the courtroom for Meshbusher's birthday.” (41:51)

Marjorie's Dark Path: Crime After Crime

• Marjorie’s Later Years:
  • String of arsons—homes burned for insurance and sometimes apparently for no benefit.
  • Multiple stints in prison for arson and fraud throughout the 1980s and 1990s (44:09–47:36).
  • Suspected slow poisoning of second husband Wally Hagan and potential involvement in his previous wife’s suspicious death (43:47, 48:01).
  • Attempted murder (gas and “double suicide” notes), but not convicted due to lack of clear evidence (48:29).
• History of Destruction:
  • Quote: “She’s like a Tasmanian devil of destruction.” (46:03, Allison)
  • Community wary of her: “She should have the mark of the beast on her head or something.” (53:25, Mike)

The Fate of Roger Caldwell

• Conviction Overturned (1982): New trial granted due to doubts over evidence and witness recantation (54:34).
• Plea Bargain: Allowed to plead guilty for time served—despite “confession,” claimed he was too drunk to remember details and denied Marjorie’s involvement (55:58–58:26).
  • Quote: “He showed zero remorse for what he had done. He made no mention of an accomplice.” (56:52, Allison)
  • Eventually took his own life after years of poverty and notoriety (60:03).

Legacy and Aftermath

• Elizabeth’s Other Daughter, Jennifer: Lived a quiet life, believed Marjorie was involved, and cut ties with her (60:51, 62:01).
• Glensheen Mansion: Now a historic museum, most visitors come for the history, not the murder (12:09), though guides do discuss the case when asked (15:29).
• Marjorie Alive as of 2025: Still living in Tucson at age 93 (60:51).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Is this how Clue was invented?” (06:48, Mike)
• “[Elizabeth] was completely estranged from her sister [Marjorie]... She was one of the people that had written letters of opposition for Marjorie's early release in relation to her string of Arizona arsons.” (62:01, Allison)
• “Sometimes it puts a target on them, because all the cockroaches come out of the woodwork when they know you have money.” (63:13, Allison)
• “What a crazy, twisted web of crap.” (63:28, Mike)
• “You would think you were reading, like you said, a thing out of Clue or an Agatha Christie novel. It just kept getting deeper and darker.” (63:30, Allison)
• “[Marjorie] is like a Tasmanian devil of destruction...” (46:03, Allison)
• “Stay away, this woman. Stay the hell away. Red letters across her forehead. Stay away. And then on her cheeks. I'm dangerous.” (53:28–53:36, Mike & Allison)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Glensheen mansion, history, and setting: 06:02–14:45
• Discovery of the murders: 15:46–20:49
• Family suspicion, Marjorie's childhood, and money motives: 21:53–29:23
• Physical evidence, Roger as suspect: 29:36–34:11
• Trial of Roger Caldwell: 36:12–38:34
• Trial of Marjorie, her manipulation, and acquittal: 40:52–42:04
• Marjorie’s criminal spirals (arson, fraud, suspected poisoning, prison): 43:46–53:48
• Roger’s appeal, plea bargain, confession, and suicide: 54:04–60:14
• Final thoughts, legacy, and Glensheen today: 60:51–64:07

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Tone, Style, and Podcast Personality

• Banter and Humor: Allison and Mike inject lightness and wit, referencing Clue, making jokes about Marjorie’s outrageousness, and poking fun at each other throughout.
• Sympathy and Outrage: The couple repeatedly expresses shock and sadness at the suffering of the victims and the evil of greed.
• Memorable Analogies: "Tasmanian devil of destruction," “mark of the beast,” and "cockroaches come out of the woodwork."

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Closing Insights

• Theme: Even great wealth cannot shield one from betrayal or violence—sometimes, it puts a target on your back.
• Lessons: Greed, manipulation, and a sense of entitlement fueled a multi-decade saga of violence and fraud that destroyed families and outlived the original crime.
• Tribute to Victims: Both hosts emphasize the importance of remembering Elizabeth Congdon and Velma Pietila, whose lives were taken so senselessly in the tangled web of Glensheen.

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For anyone intrigued by true crime, the Glensheen murders episode is a study in greed, family dysfunction, and the failure of justice—a real-life Gothic tragedy, as riveting as any novel, but terribly true.

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Notable Listener Shout-Out: Listener Jessica suggested the case. (05:51)

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Allison]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode with the Crime and coffee couple. My name is Allison.

[Mike]

And my name's Mike.

[Allison]

Hi, Mike.

[Mike]

Hey, Al. How are you, babe?

[Allison]

I'm pretty good. I'm glad we're finally recording and sitting here in front of our cameras, in front of our micro mic. I was going to say microwaves.

[Mike]

There's no microwaves in here. Nothing to know of.

[Allison]

You are a hot mess today.

[Mike]

Why is that? Please, please tell me more.

[Allison]

Oh, my gosh. Mike had me laughing so hard before we hit record because the came were off a little bit, so he kept popping out of his chair, tripping over everything. Our dog is trying to sleep peacefully next to me and she kept, like, jolting and jolting.

[Mike]

I'd make a loud noise. It's. It's not good.

[Allison]

Oh, my gosh, you're so funny.

[Mike]

You know, we're an independent podcast. We don't have a lot of these people to hire like some of those other podcasts out there.

[Allison]

Certainly don't.

[Mike]

At least not yet. But you know what? Some. Somewhere down the line, eventually we'll have a professional doing these sort of things. In the meantime, I'm gonna be the guy, and that's all right.

[Allison]

Hey, you're a good guy to have.

[Mike]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Allison]

I'm gonna keep you.

[Mike]

Yeah. And how's. How's life going for you? It looks pretty good. You got, like I said, the chrome nails. I think I mention that last time.

[Allison]

I don't know if you did. Yeah, first time I've ever had chrome nails.

[Mike]

You got brand new haircut.

[Allison]

Yes, I got my hair done finally. My goodness, if you ever have the grays coming through that l' Oreal spray. It's called, I think, Magic Touch or something like that. It is a freaking lifesaver. That thing comes out and it's like all the grays. And yes, patch me up until I can see my stylist again.

[Mike]

I don't even have any hair, so I don't know what you're talking about. And also, I probably need a shave on my Body, I think.

[Allison]

Do you need a head to toe? Well, not head to toe. Let's just say head to belly button.

[Mike]

Head to belly button. Shearing like a sheep.

[Allison]

I take Mike in the bathroom like a sheep and just. Just shave him, like, for 45 minutes.

[Mike]

That's kind of our thing before we go on a cruise.

[Allison]

She's like, all right, it's a lot of work.

[Mike]

Take the shirt off. Here we go.

[Allison]

It takes a lot of time.

[Mike]

Yeah. This. This hair you see if you're watching on YouTube, it just keeps going all the way around, all the shoulders, back, stomach, everything. So every once in a while, I'll share, like, a shirtless thing online, and then the gay bear community tends to enjoy it quite a bit. When. I appreciate you guys, I appreciate you. I don't swing that way, but that's cool.

[Allison]

You're like a little baboon.

[Mike]

Yeah, a big baboon.

[Allison]

A big baboon. So. And then I went down to Sarasota, Florida, and I got two new tattoos. I think we did in the previous episode that I was doing that.

[Mike]

If you're on Instagram, you probably saw

[Allison]

that, and I did just that. But if you didn't see. I got our kids birth flowers. I still have, like, a welt from the. The. The bandage. I forgot what that's called, but. And then I did my mom's handwriting in her honor.

[Mike]

And what does it say?

[Allison]

It says our sunshine, because that's what my mom used to call me.

[Mike]

And you got it from a card that she actually wrote?

[Allison]

Yeah, she wrote it in 1998 when we were away at NIU. Go Huskies.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's. And meanwhile, I'm just sitting here, and I got nothing new to report. Like, just. I'm just me.

[Allison]

You're just dashing, as handsome as ever.

[Mike]

That's right. That's just what I do. That's. It's kind of how I roll. Um, and other than that, we always got our daughters, like, calling every single day after school, having us take her somewhere every single day. It's either a friend's house or the friends come over, or she wants to go to the library or something. And I believe Allison was quoted today as saying, so help me God, if she asked to go anywhere today, I'm going to lose it.

[Allison]

I said, I'm going to put my head through a window. I am so exhausted today. I have zero energy. So before we started recording, I was like, I'm in perimenopause. Is this normal? And it says, yes, it's very normal.

[Mike]

Yes. ChatGPT.

[Allison]

It doesn't matter how many hours I sleep. I got, like, 7 hours and 45 minutes of sleep last night, and I am just dragging.

[Mike]

Everybody's going through a lot. It's getting older. It's preparing to die.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

It's just kind of wrapping everything up. It's like, all right, everybody, get out of the studio. It's time to shut this thing down.

[Allison]

And I. I had an especially hard workout this morning, so it just really pushed me over the ed edge of being drained.

[Mike]

And you've been crushing your workouts. We have this thing called tonal on the wall that we got back in Covid days when we couldn't leave the house, and it's. You're, like, exceeding the every single time. Like, by a lot. Like, 20%.

[Allison]

Yeah. And it's just really important to me because I am a woman in perimenopause. So I did a post on my Instagram story today about, like, how weight training is basically insurance for our future. I mean, I'm not doing it to be in any kind of bikini contest. It's just so that I have strength and, well, sure, I could if I wanted to go to it, but it's really more so to just age better and have strength.

[Mike]

I have an idea. You can fashion a bikini in our bedroom, and then we can just have a good time.

[Allison]

Oh, let's just not.

[Mike]

We could, if you wanted to start.

[Allison]

Oh, I could do a lot of things if I want to.

[Mike]

It's also. Your dad's probably watching this.

[Allison]

Yeah. So there you go.

[Mike]

Sorry, Pops. My bad.

[Allison]

Why. Why do you always like to make people uncomfortable?

[Mike]

He does have two grandkids out of the deal, so. That's nice. I mean, they're pretty good kids as far as I'm concerned.

[Allison]

I like them a lot. Yes. In fact, our son surprised me and got me a swig last night.

[Mike]

He did?

[Allison]

Drinking it now.

[Mike]

He just went there. I was asking him, like, he was. Anytime he's out and about and trying to go somewhere, there's always something up. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm getting, Mama swig. I'm getting.

[Allison]

Yeah, I just drank it. If you're watching on YouTube, I had, like, a huge piece of orange hanging of my mouth. I. I'm. I'm a mess.

[Mike]

It's a good thing that only, like, a thousand people see these videos at a time.

[Allison]

So are you ready to dive into this case, or do you have anything you'd like to Share.

[Mike]

I'm good.

[Allison]

All right. I've been just yammering on and on about myself. It's like Elon this and Elson that.

[Mike]

She's still going.

[Allison]

Nobody gives a hoot about what I've got going on in my life.

[Mike]

I know about it already.

[Allison]

All right, so let's dive into this murky cup of coffee. This is a listener suggestion from Jessica. And this is a story of the Glen sheen murders. So 49 years ago, someone crept through the sprawling halls of a five story, 32,000 square foot mansion known as Glensheen. And you know that the house is big if it has a name, right? Yeah, our house doesn't have a name. Maybe we should name it Parniki Plantation. Okay, that. It does have a name, I guess. So it is this massive red brick home that's situated along Lake Superior in Duluth, Minnesota. So in late June of 1977, when Elizabeth Congdon, this is an 83 year old mining era, she was being cared for by her night nurse and a shadowy figure crept through the grand staircase of the home. So night nurse Velma Pytella was bludgeoned to death with a candlestick holder as she came face to face with this person in the darkness of night.

[Mike]

Is this how Clue was invented?

[Allison]

Really?

[Mike]

Right, like with a candlestick at night?

[Allison]

Sounds totally like this. So the killer then moved on up the staircase to their next victim, the a helpless Elizabeth who had been peacefully asleep in her bed. And like you kind of said, some compare this tragedy to a story that's straight out of the pages of an Agatha Christie novel. But sadly, this wasn't fiction. This was real life. And two innocent women were violently murdered that night with greed down to the center of it all. So heiress Elizabeth Mannering Congdon was born on April 22, 19. Or excuse me, I keep wanting to say 1994, but it wasn't. It was 1894. Very long time ago. As the sixth child and youngest daughter to Chester and Clara Congdon, they all together had seven children. Three were girls and four were boys. So three years before Elizabeth's birth, her brother John died of scarlet fever. When she went. Excuse me, when he was two days shy of turning two.

[Mike]

You know, you're talking about a long time ago. We're talking about this kind of stuff. Polio, scarlet fever.

[Allison]

So Chester, who was originally from upstate New York, he was a lawyer and a businessman. And he married Clara Bannister in 1884, one after they met at Syracuse University in 1871. So when the Mesabi Iron Range was discovered in northeastern Minnesota in 1890. This was something I had never even heard about. Chester had been working as a real estate lawyer in St. Paul, and really they were kind of struggling financially. And they both came from very meager beginnings. You know, their childhoods were not, you know, encloaked with riches. So the ranges discovery sparked a boom in land deals and contracts, which made lawyers such as Chester in high demand. So he and his family relocated to Duluth in 1892. This is two years before Elizabeth's birth. So they had all of their children in St. Paul and then two in Duluth. So Chester began working as a lawyer for the Oliver Mining Company, and soon he was making millions of dollars. So when he formed the Chemung Iron Company in 1901, he made millions more. So Chester went on to earn the majority of his wealth developing this Mesabi iron range. This is the most prolific iron range to be mined in Minnesota. So since the 1890s, the Mesabi has been transporting its ore to steel processing facilities that create various structural steel for buildings, bridges, auto parts, parts of ships, trains, and even household appliances. So in 1916, at 63 years old, sadly, Chester died suddenly, Some sources say cardiac arrest. And then Clara lived an additional 34 years, and she died at 96 years old. And this happened in 1950. So at this point in time, Elizabeth was the last living child. So she became the sole owner and residents of the family's mansion, which was known as glensheen. So the five story, 39 room, 32, 000 square foot mansion is situated on 12 acres of land along the banks of Lake Superior in Duluth. This is about 154 miles north of Minneapolis. So after she inherited her father's fortune, she became one of Minnesota's wealthiest women. So although Elizabeth never did get married, in 1932, she adopted a daughter. This is Jacqueline Barnes, and she renamed her Marjorie Mannering Congdon. And then three years later, in 1935, she adopted a second daughter, Jennifer Susan Congdon. Although the girls weren't particularly close, as they grew up within the walls of Glensheen, they did each serve as the others. Made of honor, really, just more so to appease their mother. So construction. Excuse me, construction of Glensheen. It took more than three years. And when the family moved in in 1908, Elizabeth was about 14 years old. Some of her brothers were older, maybe in their 20s, but they all lived there. And she with her siblings, as well as her cousin Alfred, who suddenly became an orphan. So much of her life she was there, and she did attend Dana Hall Prep in Massachusetts as well as Vassar College in New York. So in addition to opening up a local iron mining, you know, with the. The whole industry, the Congdon family, they were very much philanthropic. They gave back to the community.

[Mike]

They had a lot of excess money.

[Allison]

They did. And not everyone shares their money, so it was good that they did. So they set aside land for public use, such as the Northshore Scenic highway as well as Congdon Park. So Chester gave the city this park, paying for its development on the condition that Duluth stop using the creek as an open sewer.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure a lot of that went on and still does, I think a lot in other countries.

[Allison]

So it's now an area where the community can enjoy and they can hike along the Tischer Creek while enjoying gorgeous bridges and stunning waterfalls. And I looked up the park and it did. It looked beautiful. So two years after Elizabeth and her night nurse were murdered, Glensheen mansion was donated to the University of Minnesota. This happened in 1979.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

And it then opened to the public as a historic museum that people could go to and tour.

[Mike]

Okay. It reminds me of the Biltmore in, like, Asheville. I don't know, the size differences, I can look it up. But 39 rooms, man, that's a freaking lot.

[Allison]

I think the Biltmore is a lot bigger than Glensheen. Like, a lot bigger. Because we. We've never been to Glensheen, but we have been to the Biltmore, and it is freaking sprawling.

[Mike]

I mean, that many rooms, like, nowadays, at least we put in, like, bowling alleys and like some fun stuff, you know? Then it was just like, oh, here's another room, here's another room. Here's.

[Allison]

We can sit in this room, and we can sit in this room.

[Narrator]

Right?

[Allison]

So, yeah, a lot of it was kind of wasted, but it is a very cool house. I mean, I've. I've looked at many a pictures of it. So the home has basically been left frozen in time exactly as it had been when it was, you know, lived in by the family. So letters written by Clara remain in a desk drawer while the closet that is stacked with sheets is left just as it had been organized by the family's second floor maid. Just imagine that you have not just one maid. This is the second floor made.

[Mike]

When I look into maids, I make sure that they can take care of the entire floor.

[Allison]

The entire floor.

[Mike]

Because you don't want them going back and forth. They get things. A lot of waste of time and you're right. Biltmore is 175, 000 square feet compared to Glensheen, which is 20, 000, 30, 000, something like that.

[Allison]

Yeah. So a lot bigger. So, you know, ways that the house was arranged, you can still still see today a hundred years, you know, moving forward. So it had been Clara's dream that their home would serve as a calming escape for generations to come. She pictured grandkids and then great grandkids and on and on. So the location that's at 3300 London Road was far removed. And during the three years of construction, the once heavily wooded area was quickly transport or, excuse me, transformed into a sprawling estate that's complete with a carriage house, a boathouse, a gardener's cottage appear and four greenhouses. So at the time of its construction, glensheen cost about 854,000. So as I was doing the research, I was like, oh, that's not bad for a man, a mansion. So I look up what that's worth in 2026. Do you have any guesses?

[Mike]

39 million.

[Allison]

32 million.

[Mike]

Oh, man. So close.

[Allison]

So close. So the ornate ceilings are 16 inches thick. There's 15 completely unique fireplaces, while the floors are made with fire retardant material. And you could think of those historic houses, they're just so ornate and detailed. Whereas nowadays houses are thrown up so quickly.

[Mike]

Well, maybe the fancy ones are nicer, but they still don't have a ton of like woodwork. Like you go into some of these huge ones and like this, the detail in a lot of the.

[Allison]

I don't know, everywhere.

[Mike]

I don't even know what to call the things that they have. We have walls and doors and stuff.

[Allison]

That's about it. I mean our house was probably built in two months.

[Mike]

Yeah, builder material. A lot of things are falling apart. It's okay.

[Allison]

So the public is now welcome to peruse through all five floors of the mansion, including the previously closed third floor. Well, as the attic and 70% of his V visitors are not going there at all. For the morbid curiosity behind this case involving the murders, more so just to see the history of the house.

[Mike]

But 30% are.

[Allison]

Yeah, right. But a lot of the people visiting are far too young to even know about this case. So although the murders are not a central part at all of the tours, the guides will answer and discuss questions with visitors after the conclusion of the tours. If anyone does have some questions, some won't answer, some will say a little bit.

[Mike]

They'll be like, if there's any Questions about random things like murders. Then let's hold them till the end.

[Allison]

Yeah. So I guess in the past they refused to talk about it at all, but now at least they'll say, like, okay, yes, this happened in this room.

[Mike]

Well, it's stupid not to. I mean, it's a fact. It happened. It happened, I guess, that the family doesn't want to talk about, but it happened.

[Allison]

So it all began in the early morning hours of Monday, June 27, 1977, when a killer lurked in the darkened cemetery that bordered the mansion's grounds. So Elizabeth was asleep in her bedroom on the second floor of Glensheen while nurse Velma Piatilla made her final checks on the night across the hall. So Velma had not intended to be there at all that night because she had actually retired about a month earlier, which is just. It's that added layer of sadness that she should not have been there. And I mean, yes, somebody else would have likely been killed, which is sad across the board. But for her family, that's a really haunting thought.

[Mike]

And remind me, was Elizabeth, like, why did she need a night nurse?

[Allison]

We'll go more into that. But she was 83 years old. She had had a massive stroke. So she, at this point in time, was requiring around the clock care. So after working as Elizabeth's nurse for years, she had grown close to this heiress. You know, they spent their days together. But at 66 years old, she was ready to start enjoying her retirement. She wanted to spend more time with her grandchildren, to go golfing with her husband. So when another night nurse had asked for Sunday night off, no replacement could be found. And Velma was a good person. So she got a phone call and she was told, we can't find coverage for Elizabeth this night. Can you please come in? And she agreed. But her husband was not happy with this. This decision. You know, he basically wanted her to rip the band aid off and be in retirement. Because once you give a little bit, you're always going to be called. You know how that goes.

[Mike]

Yeah, absolutely. And they don't really. I mean, I'm sure they had a relationship like you said, but I mean, they. They care more about their needs than anything else.

[Allison]

Right. So moving Forward now to 7am on Monday morning when the day nurse, this is Mildred Garvo, she arrived at Glensheen for her shift, and she was surprised to find that the front door was unlocked. So she stopped by the kitchen, she said hello to the cook, and then she started to make her way through the house. And as she approached the stairway, she looked up, and she's noticed that Velma was lying at an angled position along the window seat of the grand staircase. And initially this thought popped into her mind, and she thought, is Velma taking a nap? Maybe she had fallen asleep there in the night. But this thought was very quickly pushed away because as she got closer, she could see that Velma was beaten, bloody, and very clearly dead. So she was obviously shocked and terrified. But her first instinct was actually to rush up the stairs where many would have rushed out the doors. But she wanted to check on Elizabeth. And sadly, she found her deceased in her bed. And there was still a satin pillowcase covering her face. So Elizabeth's room was in disarray with jewelry that was just strewn across the floor, while another pillow had been tossed to the side. And Mildred immediately turned to run downstairs to contact police, and she was on the phone with the dispatcher. They stayed on the line because they weren't sure, you know, the killer could still be there in the house. We're talking about a lot of rooms that someone could be tucked away in hiding. So as police arrived and did a sweep of the expansive home as well as its expansive grounds, they determined that the killer was no longer on the premises. So as they walked through the house and looked at all of the evidence, they, they came to believe that the killer had likely gained access to the home through a window of the billiards room. This was on the lowest level of the house. Because they came to that conclusion, the window was broken. So it was pretty obvious. So they theorized that after the killer climbed in and began making their way through the darkened rooms, they headed up the stairs to the second floor, where they knew they could find Elizabeth. So Velma, who had likely heard something, confronted them on the expansive landing. And although she tried to fight her attacker, clawing at them, she sadly collapsed across the window seat after she was struck in the head with a brass candlestick holder. And it actually fractured her skull. So her cause of death was from a fractured skull and blood loss, whereas Elizabeth had been smothered to death. Geez. So now upstairs, the killer made their way into Elizabeth's bedroom. And this is one that previously belonged to her older sister, Helen, but it had a lake view. So after Helen moved out, Elizabeth moved over to the better room, which makes sense. So as a pillow was suddenly pressed against her once sleeping face, the partially paralyzed woman had been unable to fight back. I mean, this is an 83 year old woman that can barely speak. She has what's Known as aphasia. She's partially paralyzed, she's helpless, and someone is smothering her to death with a pillow.

[Mike]

Yeah, she's done.

[Allison]

So once she stopped struggling, the killer moved through her bedroom, combing through her jewelry. And, you know, obviously they're very wealthy, and I'm sure there were a lot of expenses, expensive pieces that she had.

[Mike]

Yeah. What a huge target. Right.

[Allison]

And the diamond ring that she wore on her finger, as well as the gold watch around her wrist were slipped off, while an ancient gold coin that had been in her dresser had also been taken. So now, by late morning, after police secured the crime scene, they gave their first official statement announcing that this violent double homicide had possibly been a robbery gone wrong due to the fact that some of Elizabeth's valuables had been taken. But at the root of it all, they believe that this person came in to take, you know, things of value. So three days later, the family traveled to Duluth from around the country for Elizabeth's funeral. And this included 44 year old Marjorie Caldwell. This is Elizabeth's adoptive daughter, adopted daughter. Excuse me. So she had traveled from Colorado with her 43 year old husband of two years. This is Roger Caldwell. So investigators couldn't help but notice, though, that Roger had a scratch on his lip and swelling on his right hand.

[Mike]

Ah.

[Allison]

So they asked about it, and I believe Marjorie said that a horse had said stepped on his hand. Is. Is the story that was given.

[Mike]

All right, well. And in this case, they're in cahoots.

[Allison]

So although the story of this botched burglary remained the public's narrative over the first week of the investigation, police were still exploring other ideas. And very quickly, phone calls started coming through from family members who were contacting them to let them know about Marjorie. And they urged them to look into her and Roger as suspects. So they were explaining that her behavior all through childhood had really been very devious. She was a real handful as a child. She was actually diagnosed as a sociopath by that time.

[Mike]

Wow. Back in that day.

[Allison]

Right. I'm sure her behavior must have been that bad that they actually took her and got her diagnosed. So even more concerning, they mentioned strange incidents that had happened in the years previously, One that was really concerning. Apparently she made her mom a marmalade sandwich, and a nurse had stopped her from giving it to her, reminding her that Elizabeth had diabetes. But she insisted that her mom eat the sandwich, and she became very, very ill after eating it. So after seeking medical attention, tests showed the presence of a dangerous chemical in Elizabeth's Blood. But because this jar of marmalade just vanished, there was no proof.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

So authorities were never notified about this situation.

[Mike]

Well, they also wanted to keep it hush hush because they're a well known family and all that.

[Allison]

So investigators came to learn that Roger and Marjorie were desperate for money. And they were set to inherit $8.2 million on Elizabeth's passing. So they began wondering if maybe they sped up the process of inheritance by murdering Elizabeth. So at the time of her mother's death, she was unemployed. Marjorie was receiving about $22,000 per year from the trust. And in 2026, this is equivalent to about $120,000.

[Mike]

120 million? You said thousand.

[Allison]

Oh, no. $22,000 a year in 1977 is $120,000 a year in 2026.

[Mike]

My bad. I was calculating. They point to.

[Allison]

Okay, so, yeah, so the 8.2 million, how much is that worth today?

[Mike]

I don't know. I was about to.

[Allison]

Oh, good idea. So, yeah, do that, because I, I actually didn't do that. But regardless, you know, she was getting a decent yearly, you know, income from. For doing nothing, you know, just existing.

[Mike]

Yeah, I would take it.

[Allison]

So did you have that information or. It's still looking.

[Mike]

It's searching the web. Standby. Okay. It looks like 43.71 million.

[Allison]

Wow, that's a lot of money. So Roger Caldwell was equally unemployed. He was an unemployed salesman from Golden, Colorado, and he married Marjorie Leroy two years earlier. And at the time that they got married, she was a middle aged divorce, say, with seven children. So he later claimed that when they met, he had no idea that she was the granddaughter of Chester Congdon and had all these millions of dollars set to inherit, you know, behind her.

[Mike]

He just wanted to marry her and her seven kids.

[Allison]

Right. So Elizabeth's other adopted daughter, Jennifer, she had moved to Wisconsin with her husband. It sounded like they lived a nice, quiet life. She'd always been a very peaceful child. So Marjorie had stayed back in Minneapolis after she married an accountant, Richard Leroy, who she went on to have seven children with. So they were married for a long time. They were married for 20 years. But her husband filed for divorce when he could no longer handle the way that she was so careless with money. Like exceptionally extravagant.

[Mike]

Yeah, and that's part of the problem. Even if you get a bunch of millions of dollars, you're just gonna blow it. Right. I mean, I guess people that do that just don't know that.

[Allison]

Right? I. I mean, what does money mean if it's just an endless Cash flow, you know. So Marjorie, who is now a single woman, after having seven children and 20 years of marriage, she decided to relocate to the mountains of Colorado. So while attending a Parents without partners meeting in 1975, Roger was immediately charmed by Marjorie's bubbly, vivacious personality. And I don't know, maybe he didn't know that she was set to inherit all this money. Yeah, I don't know. So very quickly after they got married, Roger came to realize that his wife had an incredibly outlandish spending habit, mostly funded by what seemed to be her mother's bottomless bank account. So by this point in time, Marjorie had already blown through her million dollar trust fund. She was buying extravagant clothing that included hundreds of matching outfits for her children to wear at their horse shows as well as their ice skating competitions. Very like, just beyond excess, which in

[Mike]

that 1977, I mean, you know, you didn't have to go that far to be excess. But like now a lot of people go excessive. It's like, you don't have to buy all this crap.

[Allison]

Nobody needs hundreds of matching outfits. I'm just, I tend to be more on the minimalist side of things. So I see a lot of Instagram reels and like the excess in these people's houses. I'm not drawn to that at all. All I think is that's just more to take care of.

[Mike]

You just want it to look like nobody lives there.

[Allison]

I want to look like we live in a model house. Is that too much to ask?

[Mike]

Yes, but that's okay.

[Allison]

Okay. So because she was spending money so freely, she was often bouncing checks each time just expecting that her mom was going to swoop in behind her and pick up all the pieces. And she did. Elizabeth really did.

[Mike]

And then 1977, when she was writing these checks like you didn't have a credit card, it was just kind of like they wrote down you, you gave him a piece of paper that said, here' how much I'm going to pay you? And they assumed that there was money in the account.

[Allison]

But this all changed when Elizabeth's health started going downhill. So she had a massive stroke in 1964. But at the time she was still able to handle her own affairs up until September of 1974. And this is when she appointed trustees to manage her father's will, a time when she began requiring around the clock care of private duty nurses. So now she has these higher ups that don't have that emotional attachment like she does to her daughter, and they're taking a closer look at things going, I don't think so.

[Mike]

This money's gonna be gone if she keeps getting it right?

[Allison]

So with Elizabeth no longer in a place to just jump in and rescue her daughter every time she needed it, the Congdon trustees finally stepped in and said, I don't think so, Marjorie. We're cutting you off.

[Mike]

We're fixing this leak.

[Allison]

Right? So as of the spring of 1977 was rolling around Marger, or excuse me, Marjorie and Roger had found themselves just really flat broke. Their house was in floor foreclosure, their cars were repossessed. But this did not stop them from touring these multi million dollar ranches. As they were telling the realtors that their mother would be handling the purchase. They were buying like horses, like for $75,000. I mean, just on and on and on.

[Mike]

All you say is like, well, I'm the Congdon heiress, so don't worry, it's. And you're like, okay, well, I'll get this money eventually.

[Allison]

Exactly. So Marjorie indicated that the mountain air would help the her youngest son. This is 17 year old Ricky with his asthma. There were even stories about how she lied and said that he had cystic fibrosis. That was not the case. He did struggle with asthma though. So it sounded like she was using Ricky's health diagnosis to fuel this, you know, money.

[Mike]

Well, she was so desperate, she was using anything she could.

[Allison]

So meanwhile, while the murder investigation is continuing, Duth police officers were combing over evidence in the mansion for days. They were cataloging blood and hair. I guess Velma had gotten a handful of her killer's hair.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Allison]

But they found absolutely no unexplained fingerprints. But of course we're talking about 1977. So forensic DNA testing as we know it today, it didn't exist. But regardless, they were starting to find a trail of evidence. So investigators discovered a handwritten will that was dated three days before the murders, in which Marjorie signed over a $2.5 million portion of her expected eight plus million dollar inheritance.

[Mike]

So now she's already signing that. That's crazy, right? I guess you can do that if you know how much you're getting.

[Allison]

So they also learned that one month earlier, Roger had flown to Duluth and asked Elizabeth and the Congdon trustees for $750,000, which today is over $4 million.

[Mike]

That's it.

[Allison]

So he was like explaining that they were planning on purchasing a ranch. So he told them that at the very least he would need $500,000 because he needed to pay off of his office debts and Stay out of jail. And they're looking at this guy like, dude, you've known Marjorie for two years now, and you're sitting here asking us for $500,000 at the very least, he's got some big cojones. Yes. So they are sitting there and they're like, no, Roger, we're denying these requests costs. So investigators also found a handwritten envelope in the mailbox of the Caldwell's Colorado home. Although they're saying Colorado home, I think they were living in a hotel at this point in time. So it arrived after they had left for Elizabeth funeral. So this was his basin. Byzantine is how you pronounce it. So a Byzantine era coin, the one that was missing from Elizabeth's. I think I said jewelry box or drawer or something like that. So it was stolen from Elizabeth's bedroom. So not only did an expert determine that a thumbprint on the envelope matched Rogers, but the writing on the envelope also appeared to be in his handwriting, while the letter had been postmarked in Duluth one day before the murders.

[Mike]

What a complete idiot.

[Allison]

Right. But then they couldn't understand, like, why would he have sent it rather than just slipping it in his pockets? So hair found at the mansion closely matched Rogers, while some of the blood found matched his blood type. But you couldn't definitively say it was Roger.

[Mike]

There's no DNA.

[Allison]

Right. So jewelry found in Marjorie and Roger's hotel room after the funeral was strikingly similar to what would what had been stolen from Glensheen. This is including the ring that Elizabeth wore, as well as the watch that she was wearing at the time of her murder. But when Marjorie was questioned about it, she claimed that these were her pieces and they only closely resembled that of what her mother owned.

[Mike]

There's no way to prove it.

[Allison]

Right. So at 8:30am on the Monday morning of the murders, maintenance workers at Minneapolis St. Paul Airport found car keys to Velma's car, as well as a parking ticket with a time stamp of 6:35am that morning, the morning of the murders that were in a garbage can at the airport. So Velma's car itself was found in the airport short term parking lot later that morning at 11am There were no fingerprints found on the parking tickets. And the only fingerprint that was found in the car that belonged to. Excuse me. Belonged to Velma's husband. So Velma's prints herself weren't even found in that car. Meaning that whoever did this and drove the car wiped it down or wore gloves, but you would think wiped down Velmas Yeah, so they wiped it. So the medical examiner estimated Elizabeth and Velma's time of death at 2am so this would have given the killer plenty of time to make the 160 mile or two and a half hour drive from Duluth. So while the Caldwell's hotel room was being searched, police found a receipt From a Minneapolis St. Paul airport gift shop for a suit bag that was purchased on the morning of the murders. So when Roger's photo was shown to two of the shop's employees, they thought for sure that this could have been Roger. So being only 1977, of course, sir, you know, security cameras aren't what they are today. Or they didn't exist.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, there's no such thing as 4K or 1080 or whatever. Like. Like it was a tube TV, like this big, 3 inches, 4 inches wide.

[Allison]

I mean, do you even think there were cameras in there?

[Mike]

Yeah, as long as there was cameras. Yeah, video cameras.

[Allison]

So they didn't. There was no mention of surveillance cameras at the airport. And also the other question that I had was passenger identity. Why wasn't his name on a list of travelers? But I guess that hadn't been rigorously verified either.

[Mike]

Yeah, it was kind of like getting out of expressway, like walk on and

[Allison]

go bus kind of situation.

[Mike]

Yeah, like you can give your ticket to anybody. Yeah, you just got a ticket.

[Allison]

So I don't know if. If he registered his name. Maybe he just said, my name's Sam, Sam Smith.

[Mike]

They're like, all right, you got a ticket, you're on.

[Allison]

So although there was no smoking gun, you know, because the prince, you know, they, they didn't match Roger. The hair kind of looked like Roger.

[Mike]

Was there a smoking gun at this point? Like in 1977? What would a smoking.

[Allison]

A witness account? Maybe.

[Mike]

Probably that's the only thing.

[Allison]

So Chief Prosecutor John DeSanto and his team believe, though, that they did have a strong enough case against the. So learning that a Minneapolis newspaper planned to publish a story about the connection to Roger and Marjorie, Roger was arrested nine days after the murders on July 6, 1977. So since the Congdon legacy was so strong and Duluth, Roger's defense team worried that he wouldn't get a fair trial if they held the trial in Duluth. So not only was there a Congdon Boulevard and a Congdon park, but there was also a Congdon park elementary school. I mean, very well known name. So a judge agreed to move the trial to brainerd, which is 114 miles southwest of Duluth. So 10 months after the murders, jury Selection began in April of 1978, and it took more than three weeks to select 12 jurors. So testimony began on May 9, where lead investigator Sergeant Gary Waller took the jurors through the evidence, and he showed them the gruesome photos of Elizabeth and Valma. So since police were unable to identify two handprints that were found on the bathroom sink where the killer had clearly washed up, the defense argued that these belong to the true killer. So to clear things up and why they didn't do this in the first place, investigators went back to the lab to re examine the evidence. And they came back to say that while one print belonged to one of Elizabeth's nurses, the other actually belonged to Sergeant Waller. And he apparently had touched the sink during the investigation and left his print behind.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Allison]

Which gloves? Guy wear gloves? So in the midst of the trial, one juror was dismissed after she received this unsigned letter offering her $10,000 for a guilty verdict. So I don't know who sent that, but the judge ruled that she could not be fair under the circumstances, and no one was ever charged with sending that letter. So no eyewitnesses could definitively place Roger in Duluth during the time frame of the murders. Yes, those airport employees said it could have been him. They both did pick him out, I guess in a photo. So, you know, they were worried that he could potentially get off because there wasn't, like I said, this smoking gun. Like I said, there wasn't any airline passenger list from flights from Denver to Minneapolis and back again. But again, airport security just wasn't what it is today. So investigators also couldn't come up with a logical. Logical explanation as to why Roger would have taken that gold coin and sent it to himself rather than just sliding it into his pockets.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So meanwhile, the defense claimed that the envelope had been part of this elaborate frame up. So it's also unclear how the killer planned to get away on the night of the murders, because again, Velma was not supposed to be working that night, and she was a last minute fill in. And many of the usual nurses did not drive themselves to work. They would get dropped off. So her car had just. It just so happened to be parked right near the front door. And then after the killer found her keys, he or she drove the car to the airport, obviously tossing them into the airport garbage can where they were found that morning. So the defense argued that Roger's arm had been too large to fit through the shards of glass and that broken billiards room. And they actually, his attorney, created this like cardboard mockup window. And a police officer who had thinner arms than Roger had been unable to reach through it without dislodging the simulated glass shards. So throughout this eight weeks of testimony, Roger did not take the stand in his own defense. And more than 500 pieces of evidence were presented while 109 witnesses testified.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

So the jury deliberated for about two and a half days. And Mike, what do you think they found Roger Caldwell.

[Mike]

I'm gonna go a little curveball here. I'll say not guilty.

[Allison]

They found him guilty of both murders. Okay. So he was then sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison with a minimum of 35 years behind bars. So one day after his sentencing, DeSanto charged Marjorie with planning the murder. They believe that she was ultimately the mastermind behind it. So no one allegedly, or excuse me, no one alleged that she had any part in the murders themselves because apparently there were a lot of witnesses around Colorado that could attest to seeing her. You know, she's over a thousand miles away from Duluth during the time frame of the murders. So the theory was that Marjorie had been the driving force behind it all because Roger was just not an ambitious guy. He didn't know his way around the mansion because obviously Marjorie grew up in Glensheen. She knew exactly where to direct him to go where her mother's bedroom was, so on and so forth. And, you know, it kind of made it clear that the killer knew where they were going when they walked into the mansion that night. He was also very easily persuaded and he was a big time drinker. So in the hours and days after the murders, Marjorie's statements were just inconsistent as to why her husband hadn't been seen around Colorado in the time frame before the murder. So Marjorie hired this top Minneapolis defense lawyer named Ron Meshbusher, which is just such a fun name. Yeah, so he was well known for some highly publicized acquittals. So since he had this transcript of Roger's trial, he basically knew exactly what evidence would be presented and he was very much prepared. He also had an additional 10 months to find holes in the case that could potentially show reasonable doubt out. So then 47 year old Marjorie's trial was held in Hastings in July of 1979. This is 170 miles south of Duluth. So Ron Meshbusher presented two key points during the trial. He said that a waitress who now two years after the murders, was suddenly coming forward to say that she recalled seeing Roger at 10pm the night before the murders, which would have been June 26, 1970. Seven, making it impossible for him to travel.

[Mike]

Weirdo. She's just coming up now.

[Allison]

It was ridiculous. So he also found an expert to testify that the fingerprint, or the thumbprint, I should say, that was found on the envelope containing this gold coin, which was really the key that placed him at the crime scene, was not actually from Roger. So I guess there was questions because it started to. Basically the evidence was just deter. Deteriorating and like disappearing.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So I don't know how accurate. Maybe they just couldn't pinpoint it any longer. So Marjorie was just presenting herself to the jurors as anything but a conniving, murderous plotter. She was sitting there knitting at the defense table. She would just smile at all the jurors. She kept her little book nearby. She was just chatting with reporters, spectators, and even the prosecution during her break.

[Mike]

She's just a sweet little lady.

[Allison]

She's just so sweet and innocent. She even brought a chocolate cake for everyone to the courtroom for Mesh Fisher's birthday.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Allison]

So after six weeks of testimony and 10 hours of deliberations, the jury came back with a verdict on July 20, 1979. What do you think they found?

[Mike]

Marjorie, you said this one up differently, so I'm gonna go. Not guilty.

[Allison]

Not guilty. So after the verdict was read, some of the jurors even came forward to hug and congratulate her.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's sweet.

[Allison]

Which just seems inappropriate.

[Mike]

It's so weird.

[Allison]

So she later told a reporter that she'd celebrated her victory by enjoying a bag of white casserole sliders at como park in St. Paul.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Allison]

So prosecutors who were understandably disappointed because they knew that Marjorie was the fuel behind the fire, but they also believed, you know, that there was satisfaction in knowing that the person who had actually physically murdered Elizabeth and Velma, at least he was safely behind bars. So during Roger's time behind bars, now 49 year old Marjorie only visited her husband occasionally. And In August of 1981, she married a man who was 23 years her senior. This is 72 year old Wally Hagan. So they were married in North Dakota before she even divorced Roger. And although bigamy charges were filed against her, she was never arrested because it's not an extraditable crime. So Marjorie had actually been close friends with Wally and his wife, Helen Hagan. This is his wife of 44 years since the 1960s. And they were one of the few people who actually remained friends with her after her mother's murder, because most people who knew Marjorie believed that she was likely responsible. So after her acquittal Helen was moved into a nursing home after she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. And only days after her arrival, she suddenly fell into this unexplained coma that even the doctors couldn't explain. And three days later, she died at only 63 years old.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

While nurses at her facility were saying that the last person that just so happened to visit Helen that day was Marjorie. So after her death, Marjorie and Wally became inseparable. So after their wedding, they sold their home in the Twin Cities. And the very night that they moved, the home was set on fire.

[Mike]

Oh, my God, man, these people just get money any way they can.

[Allison]

So Marjorie, who still owed money on the home, was charged with arson. So investigators began uncovering other unexplained fires in her background that dated back to as. As long as when she was a child.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So once again, attorney Ron Meshbusher was defending her, but this time she lost. So after she was convicted of arson as well as insurance fraud, she was sentenced to time in women's prison. So on her release 20 months later, she and Wally relocated to Southwest. To the Southwest, excuse me, in an rv. And they settled in the tiny town of Ajo, Arizona. This is right next to the Mexico border. So Wally was battling cancer at the time. So he and Marjorie were often crossing over into Mexico. I guess they were picking up medication that he needed and potentially couldn't get in the States. So just so happened, though, nearby fires started popping up inside homes and garages, which police just chalked up to the local kids in town. But even if it was Marjorie, like, what's the point?

[Mike]

I don't know.

[Allison]

Like, you're not benefiting from this. It's just destructive.

[Mike]

Yeah, it makes no sense.

[Allison]

So Wally and Marjorie had a contentious relationship with their neighbor, and they accuse this man of throwing trash into their yard and agitating their dog. So one night, this man heard rustling near his window, and when he came over to see what it was, he found this kerosene soaked rag. Rag that was sitting on his windowsill. So no doubt because he walked over, the person who intended to light this rag had run off and didn't do it yet. So he contacted the police, and they basically set up a trap. And at 1am they chased a shadowy figure down a dark alley. And who did they capture? Marjorie. Yep.

[Mike]

Just want to go after it again, man. She's just like, that's. She should have been caught the first time and put away, but instead, she just kept on staying alive and doing bad things.

[Allison]

Things she's like A Tasmanian devil of destruction, like a child. So once again, she was charged with arson. And this time she spent eight months in jail after she was unable to make bail. So Wally, who had been previously confined to a wheelchair, suddenly seemed to improve in his health while she was in jail.

[Mike]

It's a couple fraudsters, man.

[Allison]

But he. Maybe it was something that he wasn't even poisonous.

[Mike]

Jeez.

[Allison]

So this ailing man was suddenly alert. He was able to drive himself around town. He was going to restaurants.

[Mike]

And how many cases have we had where there's like a slow poisoning? Like, we just did that one recently, the cyanide.

[Allison]

Yeah. So he was flirting with other women, even. So after her release, Wally's health once again took a downward turn. And a neighbor was thinking maybe she was giving him sleeping pills that just kept him confined to bed most of the day. So when Wally testified as his wife's trial, he claimed that Marjorie's arthritis was so advanced that she couldn't even grasp a match. So although he had been wheeled into the Tucson courtroom on a gurney, juries, jurors. Excuse me. Later saw him walking by himself unassisted, in a parking lot.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Allison]

Or in the parking lot, I should say. Which, you know, that's.

[Mike]

Doesn't make any sense. No, that's fraud.

[Allison]

So I think it's just they wanted to portray themselves as sicker than they were.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So Marjorie was convicted of attempted arson, and she would later plead no contest to additional arson charges. So she was actually this time sentenced to 15 years in prison.

[Mike]

Good. Put her away.

[Allison]

But she asked the judge if she could get one more day of freedom because she just wanted that one day to spend with her husband, who she did not believe was going to be alive after her release because she's 23 years younger than Wally. So although police suspected that she planned to potentially flee to Mexico, the judge agreed with her request. Why?

[Mike]

She's stupid.

[Allison]

But he instructed officers to really keep a close eye on their house. So the following day is now October 30, 1992, and officers were patrolling and they smelled natural gas coming from their house. So they came to the door and Marjorie answered, and she insisted that everything was fine. She just said that the pilot light had blown out on their stove. But then only hours later, she called to say that her 83 year old husband, Wally was dead.

[Mike]

Oh, boy. There we go.

[Allison]

Yeah. So when police responded to the house, they found a piece of hose that was cut just long enough to stretch from the oven to the bedroom. So there were also prescription pills that were lying near Wally's body, as well as a double suicide note. Note. And it was later determined that he had died from a drug overdose rather than carbon monoxide poisoning, as it initially looked when they arrived to the house. So in her suicide note, Marjorie wrote that she had been unjustly convicted and she did not want to go to prison. So she claimed that because Wally's health was so poor, he would be unable to live without her. So she wanted them to die together, and she wanted them to be buried together alongside their dog. Dog. And I didn't know if the dog was injured in anything in this case, but that was what was said. I couldn't find that information.

[Mike]

You know, everybody's gonna be wondering.

[Allison]

So Marjorie was arrested for her husband's murder. Now, because, of course, she's already facing 15 years behind bars for arson. So now with the murder case as the deadline for calling a grand jury was approaching, prosecutors were worried that evidence just wouldn't hold up in court. And jurors might believe that she and Wally had actually agreed upon this suicide pact together.

[Mike]

She's had some amazing escapes before. Why not now?

[Allison]

So they were thinking, okay, maybe once she saw him die, she got freaked out and backed out of it, and they felt that they would not hold up. So the charge was. Was dropped. So she was not ever charged with Wally's murder.

[Narrator]

With verbo care, help is always ready before, during, and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.

[Allison]

So when Wally's three children requested that their father's body be returned to Minnesota because they wanted his remains or his ashes to be buried next to his wife, Helen, of 44 years. And from behind bars, the one that

[Mike]

he may or may not have had something to do with killing?

[Allison]

Well, Marjorie was the one that visited Helen in prison. So Wally may not have had, you know, didn't even know any knowledge of that. And of course, we can't say for sure that Marjorie did anything to Helen, because there is no proof.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

It's just highly suspicious that she goes to see Helen, Helen falls into this unexplained coma, and then she dies three days later. So, of course, even from behind bars, Marjorie is dictating things. And I can't imagine how frustrated Wally's children must be. But she refused to release the ashes. So after a drawn out, expensive legal battle, a judge granted the children half of their father's ashes, while Marjorie received the other half. So this was when the Hagan family began to publicly speculate that Marjorie could have been responsible for their mother's death. So when Marjorie began seeking early release in 2001, two of Wally's children were attending her parole board hearing in Phoenix. And she took absolutely no responsibility for her actions. Basically, she was just putting herself as the victim in this scenario, saying that the three Hagan children had caused her so much grief over the years. And meanwhile, several of her own children had even written letters to the board opposing her early release. And she was denied early parole. But Moving forward to 2004, after she served a decade in prison, she was released, and then she relocated to Tucson. So within a year of her release, she accused her attorney of stealing her money while she was behind bars. Because at this point in time, she was receiving about $4,800 a month from the Congdon estate, as well as from Wally's pension. So as a result, her attorney, Ed Boulding, was convicted of embezzling about a million dollars from her, as well as another client.

[Mike]

Everybody's getting their hands and everybody's stuff.

[Allison]

Why are people so.

[Mike]

So.

[Allison]

Freaking shady.

[Mike]

Money ruins people, man.

[Allison]

So now we're moving forward to 2007. And this is three years after she was released from prison.

[Mike]

I can't believe 2007.

[Allison]

I know. So Marjorie befriended a man named Roger Sims. And I don't know how she met him. He was living at an assisted living facility, but she was coming in to, you know, be this kind person who wanted to help him manage his finances.

[Mike]

Oh, how nice.

[Allison]

And he soon died. So she continued writing checks to herself even after his death. So when police tried to determine how had he died, while they realized that he had been quickly cremated at Marjorie's decision because she had been his power of attorney. So after she was charged with fraud and forgery because she was continuing to write checks to herself after his death, she was sentenced to only intensive probation.

[Mike]

I mean, she should have the mark of the beast on her head or something.

[Allison]

Totally.

[Mike]

Stay away, this woman. Stay the hell away.

[Allison]

Red letters across her forehead. Stay away. And then on her cheeks. I'm dangerous.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Allison]

So three years later, when she went to court to try to have her probation dropped, I mean, she's got big balls, too. She wanted to move to an assisted living facility herself. The judge said, no, Marjorie, you've done

[Mike]

enough terrible things in your life. Time for you to just rest and die.

[Allison]

So now we're moving back to when she was acquitted back in 1979, because we're going to talk a little Bit about Roger. So she. Her. Or, excuse me, Roger's attorneys, they filed an appeal after she was acquitted.

[Mike]

So Roger's the guy who initially was sentenced for killing Elizabeth.

[Allison]

Yeah, he was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences with a minimum of 35 years. So without this incriminating fingerprint on the envelope. Remember I said by the time she went to trial, they were arguing that they were sure that they would be granted a second trial. So. However, the Colorado waitress that had said during Marjorie's trial, oh, no, I. I did see him on June 26th. Now she recant. Recanted the statement.

[Mike]

Maybe the check didn't come through.

[Allison]

Unbelievable. So she said, you know, oh, I guess I didn't see him. By this time, it was already too late for Marjorie's case, so they couldn't retry her because of double jeopardy. So In August of 1982, this is over five years after the murders. The Minnesota Supreme Court overturned Rogers conviction and ordered a new trial. So after serving more than five years behind bars, he was released from prison.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

So by this point in time, the case was proving to be very difficult for authorities due to this new evidence from Marjorie's trial, as well as the fact that some witnesses had died. So the cost of a second trial would also be massive. And they worried that if they lost and Roger walked free, that the biggest murder case in Minnesota's history would remain unsolved. So they started to think about it, and they decided to propose a plea bargain. And should Roger confess, he would be offered a much more lenient sentence. Just one additional year in prison. So by this point in time, Roger was living in his hometown of Latrobe, Pennsylvania, and he decided to hold off on making a decision in hopes that he could negotiate an even better deal.

[Mike]

Yeah, seems like they're a little desperate. Desperate.

[Allison]

And. And he was right. He did this. So a guilty plea was then offered to him with no additional prison time.

[Mike]

Ah. Just say you're guilty.

[Allison]

Just say you're guilty.

[Mike]

You're good.

[Allison]

We just want to say this case has been solved. And really, they all believe that Roger did it. And they were obviously desperate. Yeah. So when given this promise, he readily agreed, and he guilted. Or, excuse me, he pleaded guilty to second degree murder. So Roger traveled to Duluth to make his confession, and he stood in front of the courtroom and he told everyone that on the night of June 27, 1977. Really, I should say on the night of June 26. But I'm saying this because it's assumed that they were murdered after midnight. At 2am so he waited outside the mansion and, you know, he was waiting to break in to murder both Velma and Elizabeth. But he said he was drinking very heavily and the details of what went on were very fuzzy. He didn't even know how he traveled from Minnesota without detection or to Minnesota.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So he was saying, like, I don't even know how I got from Colorado to Minnesota and back again without detection.

[Mike]

Interesting.

[Allison]

He could be lying. Who knows? So he did not recall taking the gold coin in question from his mother in law's bedroom. And he showed zero remorse for what he had done. He made no mention of an accomplice. So he claimed that when he had gone to Glensheen that night, he only intended to rob the mansion rather than to kill Elizabeth and Velma. But this is absolute crap, because Marjorie stood to inherit $8.2 million on her mother's death, which. What did you say was worth today? Like 30?

[Mike]

Yeah, it sounds right.

[Allison]

30. Some odd million, I believe, in 20, 26. So the idea that he was just gonna like, steal some jewelry.

[Mike]

The.

[Allison]

The properties, they wanted, these ranches and horses. He knew they needed a lot of money to keep up with Marjorie spending. So I do not believe that he walked into that mansion without the intention of killing Elizabeth.

[Mike]

The better move would have been to off Marjorie because she just kept on causing mayhem and mischief.

[Allison]

But he's selfish himself. He wants to live this lavish lifestyle. So he admitted that when he walked in that night, he had no plan, including how he was going to get back to the airport, because again, Velma's car hadn't intended to be there because she was never intended to be there.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

So, you know, even though Marjorie was in the clear due to double jeopardy laws, Roger claimed that Marjorie had nothing to do with this, which I do not believe this at all.

[Mike]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Allison]

So with this confession, he was sentenced to time served, which was five years. And he had already served this time. So he quietly went back to his home in Latrobe a free man.

[Mike]

That's crazy. Five years for murder? Murder, yes. That's pretty nice if you can get it.

[Allison]

And you know, he was going to be behind bars for a minimum of 35 years. But then the second trial was granted. So Roger's life was very bleak. He was in poor health. He was an alcoholic. He was living on welfare. He was receiving approximately $186 per month. So he eventually had the balls to reach out to the Congdons.

[Mike]

A lot of balls. Here we have a lot Big one, ones hanging, swinging.

[Allison]

So this is after everything, after his confession, you know, he's saying, if you give me $50,000, I will provide you with evidence that is, is showing that other people were involved in these murders. Even though during his confession he said there was no accomplice.

[Mike]

And then they photocopied their middle fingers and then sent it to him. And when he opened it, it showed right in his face.

[Allison]

Maybe even their butt cheeks. Maybe both. Yeah. So the family did agree, but he requested proof that evidence or they, they said, we want to, to know whatever bull crap you're showing us is solid. There's solid proof behind it because they know who this guy is. Yeah, he's a complete con artist. So then all of a sudden, Roger ups the price to $100,000 and they said, screw off Roger. And they broke off all negotiations. So In May of 1988, a 54 year old Roger sat on his living room floor and he bled to death after he slit his wrists with a steak knife.

[Mike]

Oh boy.

[Allison]

He left three suicide notes behind. One that claimed that he was completely innocent of the murders, which, you know, nobody cares like. Roger, please.

[Mike]

Piss off, man.

[Allison]

So he wrote about how much difficulty he faced since his mother in law was murdered and how he was unable to get any job around town. Excuses, excuses.

[Mike]

Always somebody else's fault, Roger.

[Allison]

And that the notoriety haunted him in connection with the murders and only nine people ended up attending his funeral. So although Roger wrote that he had never hurt a soul in his life, he wrote this in one of his suicide notes. At the time of his death, his girlfriend in Latrobe was actually hospitalized with a broken collarbone after he had badly beaten her. So he's just full of crap is what it comes down to.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So based on the most recent available information as of August of 2025, Marjorie Congdon Caldwell Hagan. That's a mouthful. Was still alive and she was living in Tucson. She'll be celebrating her 94th birthday in July of 2026, if she is still alive. Her sister Elizabeth's other adopted daughter, Jennifer Congdon Johnson, she died in Chandler, Arizona at 81 years old on May 15, 2017. Although Jennifer and her husband Charles were convinced that a second person was involved in the mansion with Roger on the night that their mother was murdered, they had been unsuccessful in their attempts of getting more information from him prior to his death. Because of course after he confessed, he was sent free. You know, he was not at risk for being charged even if he told her the truth. But he refused to do so because

[Mike]

he was already guilty. So it's like, yep, you served your time, you're good.

[Allison]

Exactly. So after Elizabeth's murder, Jennifer was completely estranged from her sister. I mean, again, even in their childhood, they were never close because of the way Marjorie was, even as a child. So her sister, excuse me, she was one of the people that had written letters of opposition for Marjorie's early release in relation to her string of Arizona arsons. So on the night of June 27, 1977, when a drunken Roderick Caldwell entered the sprawling mansion of Glensheen, he crept through a basement window and began to climb the grand staircase. And here he came upon Elizabeth's devoted nurse, Velma Piatella, who hadn't even been meant to be there that night. And after she was beaten to death on the grand staircase with a brass candlestick holder, Roger moved on to a helpless 83 year old Elizabeth Congdon, after living a full life of privilege, philanthropy, and deep ties to the city of Duluth. Because she was. She was a very giving woman. She knew she had endless money that her dad, her dad had earned, and she was very giving with this money. But she sadly had no way of fighting back her killer because she was 83 years old and she was partially paralyzed. And this story is a reminder that even wealth and status can't shield someone from tragedy or betrayal. Sometimes it puts a target on them, because all the cockroaches come out of the woodwork when they know you have money. And greed is one of the most predictable motives for murder. When someone starts viewing another person as nothing more than a paycheck or an inheritance evidence, a killer can convince themselves that they're owed something, making the decision that money matters more than a human being. And that's the case of the Glensheen murders.

[Mike]

What a crazy, twisted web of crap.

[Allison]

You would think you were reading, like you said, a thing out of Clue or an Agatha Christie novel. It just kept getting deeper and darker. And what was Marjorie capable of? Anything.

[Mike]

Yeah, as long as she was living. Like, I wouldn't want to be within in the same state as her.

[Allison]

Horrible.

[Mike]

Yeah. And dating her, being with her. She says, money, money, money, and blowing it. I mean, I'd love to sell her things because she would buy them.

[Allison]

She would buy them. I mean, a woman of excess. Even before her mother's murder, she was spending money she did not have. Yeah, it was just a very sad case, but it really highlights the fact that some people will just do anything for money.

[Mike]

And I was. I was surprised by that when she said she was taking out loans based off of. Of what she was going to make once her mother died. Like, it makes complete sense because it's coming to you. You know it's coming to you. It's just you got to wait till they die.

[Allison]

Right? And, you know, her mom was 83 years old, and, yeah, she'd have a mat, had a massive stroke, but she had great care at that house. So she could have potentially lived for another 10 years. I mean, Clara Elizabeth, mother, she lived till 96. So, you know, Marjorie's probably thinking, my grandma lived till she was 96. I can't wait another 13 years for my mom's money.

[Mike]

I got money to spend on dumb crap. Crap.

[Allison]

Hey, Roger, go get lit and then sneak into the house.

[Mike]

Yeah. And then also, I can't remember how I got there. Like, I don't care how drunk you were, you know?

[Allison]

No, he's probably lying.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

You know, and I. I have no

[Mike]

doubt he didn't even do it. I mean, who knows?

[Allison]

I guess because people had seen Marjorie around Colorado in the time frame. Yeah. But it was definitely this. This had to be Marjorie. I know she was found innocent, But I believe 1000% that Marjorie was at the center of this, this, and likely it was Roger that did the deeds. Unless she hired some, you know, some other kind of hitman. I don't know.

[Mike]

Yeah, anything's possible.

[Allison]

Yeah. So anyway, just a crazy web of greed. But we thank you guys so much for being here with us today. We appreciate you so much for listening.

[Mike]

I'm taking pictures as we're doing this.

[Allison]

Yeah. Making me very uncomfortable. And our dog, Our dog is sitting on our lap and she's like a little heat machine even though she weighs six pounds. Yeah.

[Mike]

You're sweating.

[Allison]

I am basically sitting in the seat sweating. But if you're on YouTube, you could see her little face.

[Mike]

Yeah. Your baby, she heard some lightning outside and thunder, and she came right on over.

[Allison]

She crawled right into mama's warm lap and she heated me up like a furnace. So, anyway, back to what I was saying before Mike took his camera out and started taking photos.

[Mike]

I didn't make you stop talking, B.

[Allison]

Without my consent.

[Mike]

Sorry. I guess nobody will ever see him. My bad.

[Allison]

No, you could post them, but we thank you guys for being here with us so, so very much.

[Mike]

Much.

[Allison]

If you are looking for extra episodes, we got you covered over at Apple Subscriptions or Patreon. If you wouldn't mind leaving us a five star review, we'd so appreciate it. We hope you guys are. Well, we hope you have a wonderful week. Do you have anything to say, Mike?

[Mike]

Yeah. Just appreciate the opportunity to do this and bring these terrible stories to you. And if it helps one person avoid something bad, then, you know. And these people also deserve to be remembered. You know, like Elizabeth and everything, but not the best people. Yeah, right.

[Allison]

You know, she was just such a nice person that she was stepping in to do what she could do to help, and she gets murdered. It's just so sad. But thank you guys so much, and until next time, bye.