The murder of Dylan Redwine | Ep 249

Summary

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Crime and Coffee Couple Podcast

Episode 249: The Murder of Dylan Redwine

Release date: June 14, 2026
Hosts: Allison and Mike

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the tragic case of Dylan Redwine, a 13-year-old boy who vanished during a court-ordered visit with his estranged father, Mark Redwine, in Colorado in November 2012. Allison walks through the timeline and details of the case, with Mike offering candid, first-time reactions and questions. The discussion covers family background, the investigation, evidence, and the eventual conviction of Mark Redwine for his son's murder. Throughout, the couple weaves in their signature light banter, which offers welcome moments of levity.

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Main Discussion Points & Timeline

The Redwine Family & Background

[07:14-14:17]

• Family Composition: Dylan lived with his mother, Elaine, and older brother, Corey, after his parents' contentious divorce and custody battle.
• Court-Ordered Visit: Dylan was mandated by the court to visit his father for Thanksgiving 2012, a trip he clearly did not want to take.
• Mother’s Intuition: Elaine realized Dylan was unhappy and fearful but had no legal choice, tellingly nicknaming him “Bubby.”
• Family Dynamics in Durango, CO: Mark lived in a remote area, was a long-haul truck driver, and saw his sons mainly on holidays.

“As his visits to Valisito were approaching, it became something that Dylan would dread. And his friends from Colorado Springs were able to easily pick up on the way that he was feeling…” — Allison [10:16]

Dylan’s Last Days

[14:17-17:47]

• Last Communications: Dylan arrives, is cold and distant with his father (as seen on airport/Walmart surveillance), and texts friends making plans for the next morning away from his dad.
• Final Message: Dylan’s last text is at 9:37pm; after 9:46pm, his phone goes silent.
• Morning of Disappearance: Mark claims he left Dylan sleeping at 7:30am, returned at 11:30am to find him missing, with only circumstantial evidence (TV on Nickelodeon, cereal bowl, missing backpack/fishing pole).
• Immediate Alarm: Elaine instantly suspects foul play, stating: “He wouldn't just leave. He would have called me, I am so suspect of you right now. How could he just disappear?” — Allison quoting Elaine [16:42]

The Investigation & Parental Behavior

[17:47-24:36]

• Massive Search: Search teams, dogs, helicopters, and hundreds of volunteers comb the rugged terrain around the Vallecito reservoir.
• Red Flags in Mark's Behavior: Mark doesn’t participate fully in searches, references Dylan in the past tense, and is described as emotionally distant and feigning concern.
• Prior Threats: Mark had previously told an ex-wife that he would kill his children before ceding custody.
• Suspicious Comments: Mark’s ex-wife recalls him saying, “This would be a good place to leave a body.” — Allison [24:13]

The Stolen Innocence: Discovery of Disturbing Photos

[24:36-28:02]

• Discovery: Dylan finds explicit photos on his father's laptop showing Mark engaging in disturbing behavior (wearing women’s lingerie, eating feces).
• Blackmail & Tension: Dylan confided in Corey and others, using knowledge of the photos as leverage and possibly confronting Mark about them during the final visit.
• Mike’s Reaction: “I mean, people into their own thing. Do your thing. Right? But that'd be really hard to see my dad eating somebody's poop just like a baby.” — Mike [25:43-26:08]

Vanishing & Evidence

[28:02-33:48]

• Mark’s Runaway Story Implodes: Investigators rule out the runaway theory based on evidence and character insights.
• Canine Evidence: Cadaver dogs alert in the living room, on Mark’s clothing, and in his pickup truck bed.
• Dylan’s Blood Found: Blood is discovered in multiple areas — couch, under rug, washing machine.
• Fishing Pole Relocated: Despite being “missing,” it reappears months later in Mark’s garage.

Media and the Dr. Phil Confrontation

[32:58-33:48]

• Family Appears on Dr. Phil: Elaine confronts Mark on national television. He claims the photos were a “trap” for snooping sons.
• Mike’s Commentary: “Yeah, you can set other traps. It doesn't have to be you in diapers and eating poo poo.” — Mike [33:48]

Discovery of Remains & Forensic Analysis

[33:48-44:50]

• Discovery Timeline:
  • June 2013: Dylan’s shoes, bone fragments, scraps of clothing found 8 miles up Middle Mountain Rd.
  • Nov 2015: Skull found farther up, in a coyote den.
• Forensic Details: Skull has injuries consistent with blunt force trauma and knife/tool marks (V-shaped, not typical of animal attack).
• Expert Conclusion: It was homicide. Placement of remains suggests deliberate concealment.
• Mark’s Knowledge: Mark spontaneously discusses “blunt force trauma” before the skull is found — behavior noted as suspicious by family.

The Trial and Sentencing

[41:02-46:40]

• Charges: Mark is indicted for second-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death (not premeditated, but in a “fit of rage”).
• Prosecution: They argue Dylan confronted Mark with the photos, leading to violence and eventual death. Mark dismembered and scattered remains.
• Defense: Argues animal predation, probability of a runaway teen, and challenges blood and canine evidence.
• Verdict: Guilty; sentenced to 48 years in prison at age 59.
• Mike: “Hopefully he dies in prison very quickly.” [52:08]

Aftermath & Memorial

[47:02-52:35]

• Elaine’s Grief: She never believed Mark capable of murder, emphasizing the helplessness of court-ordered visitation.
• Memorials: Dylan is commemorated with a bench and honors at his high school graduation.
• Allison’s Reflection: “...neither Dylan nor Elaine could have done anything about it... Mark Redwine, the person who helped create his child... ultimately ended his life.”
• Call to Action: Listeners reminded to report suspected child abuse (National Child Abuse Hotline).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Why aren't these, like, criminals onto this sort of thing? Like, wouldn't you pretend even, like they said, feigning, but like, wouldn't you be out there just to show face?” — Mike [22:09]
• “This would be a good place to leave a body.” — Mark, as reported by ex-wife Betsy [24:13]
• “Could you imagine finding that at your own father?” — Mike [25:43]
• “The only person was Mark's lawyer who's like, oh, it's probably animals....people that actually know disagree.” — Mike [44:50]
• “He just goes to show that Mark didn't know his son....He didn't know his son.” — Allison [51:44-52:08]
• “How do you do this to your child?” — Allison [47:43]
• “He will die in prison.” — Allison [47:02], echoed by Mike [52:08]

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Key Timestamps

• 07:14: Overview of Dylan’s trip and family background
• 10:16: Signs of Dylan’s dread about visitation
• 14:17: Surveillance and last communications
• 17:47: Search for Dylan begins, terrain described
• 22:09: Mike’s thoughts on Mark’s suspicious behavior
• 24:13: Mark’s prior threats and disturbing statements
• 25:43: Discovery of the explicit photos
• 28:02: Blackmail and confrontation connecting to the murder
• 33:48: Media appearance and Mark’s feeble defense
• 36:05: Recovery of remains; forensic advancements
• 39:29: Mark oddly references “blunt force trauma”
• 41:02: Trial analysis and family testimony
• 46:28: Jury returns guilty verdict
• 47:02: Sentencing and reflections on Elaine's loss
• 52:08: Hosts' blunt hope for justice to be served in prison

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode balances dark, sober storytelling with glimpses of Allison and Mike’s affectionate, humorous banter, especially in moments before and after delving into the case details. Their conversational style helps listeners process the heavy content, making the harrowing story accessible and engaging without minimizing its seriousness.

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Final Thoughts

Allison and Mike present a thorough, empathetic recounting of the Dylan Redwine case, highlighting the failures and helplessness within court-mandated custody arrangements and the tragedy of trusting the wrong parent. Their keen insight, personal reflections, and direct engagement make this episode both informative and emotionally resonant. Ending with a call to action, they reinforce the importance of vigilance in protecting children from potential harm.

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If you or anyone you know suspects child abuse, call the National Child Abuse Hotline at 800-422-4453 or text 'BEGIN' to that number.

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Transcript

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[Allison]

Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Crime and Coffee Couple. My name is Allison.

[Mike]

And my name is Mike.

[Allison]

Hi Mike.

[Mike]

Hey, how you doing?

[Allison]

I'm doing pretty good. How you doing?

[Mike]

Good, good. Just giving the hang loose symbols here on YouTube. If you see the video, I don't know, maybe you do, maybe you don't. I don't know, you know, whatever it is. So well, welcome one welcome. All right. You and you and you and every single person watching or listening.

[Allison]

We really appreciate even you in the background.

[Mike]

Yeah, background, foreground, sidegrounds, all the grounds.

[Allison]

So what's up with you?

[Mike]

I'm. I had to go through my closet before we got on and pick a new shirt and everything and make sure that I look like crime and coffee couplesque. And I'm at the point where in my weight loss journey with my my GLP Zepbound that I went from 250 to like 235 and it's enough where my clothes are fitting differently and I used to buy clothes especially shirts that are like double XL and now I'm going down to like XL and maybe even a large in some areas sometimes. And as a cheaper frugal fella, I Don't like it because that means I'm gonna have to buy new shirts or I can get fatter again and then still fit into my clothes.

[Allison]

You know, it depends on what your goal weight is and how much farther you have to go. Because once you settle into where you're feeling comfortable, that's when you're going to truly want to revamp your wardrobe.

[Mike]

My goal weight is when I'm about to get in the shower and you're like, oh, wait a minute. Hold on just one second. That big fella.

[Allison]

Wait, get back over here.

[Mike]

Whatever that weight is, that's my goal

[Allison]

after 24 years of marriage.

[Mike]

Because right now it's like, yeah, right. It's like, get in the shower. Hurry, hurry. Shut the lights off.

[Allison]

Why aren't you wearing a towel in the shower?

[Mike]

You got to wear something. Come on. Wear your.

[Allison]

Make you wear your swim trunk board shorts in the shower.

[Mike]

Yeah, I do have to do that time. Just kidding. But I'm at the point where, yeah, I used to have. I went through this phase when I was chubbier. I'm still chubby, but I was chubbier where I thought, oh, man, I just have a really long torso. Remember that? Where I was buying everything extra large, tall. But it was because I had huge breasts. So bigger breasts than my wife. Just huge man tits is what they were.

[Allison]

Would you please knock it off?

[Mike]

And so I just thought, no, I got a long torso. No, it turns out just a lot of stuff up top. So that was. That was rough. And so I got some xlts. Now they're like, down to, like, mid thigh almost.

[Allison]

Yeah. I mean, you don't want to revamp and then have to revamp again.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

But get rid of the stuff that look like tents or tarps on.

[Mike]

Well, that's the problem. If GLP1s go up to, like, a thousand dollars a month or whatever, then I'm getting back to fat tone.

[Allison]

That's very doubtful.

[Mike]

It's not because I want to. It's because I have a mental condition.

[Allison]

I would think they would get less expensive.

[Mike]

Okay. Yeah, I would assume so. I hope so.

[Allison]

I hope so.

[Mike]

Anyhow. I just want to draw on your skin. Is that weird?

[Allison]

It is kind of weird. And you're always. When we're recording, you're always poking me.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Allison]

So weird. I just like touching her.

[Mike]

You have a nice.

[Allison]

You have nice skin, but it's not lovingly. It's more like, poke, poke, poke.

[Mike]

Well, I'm a touch or feeler, so I Just like to feel you.

[Allison]

So before I forget, I was talking to my dad earlier. He was watching an older episode. It was the murder of Karen Slover. And he's like, hey, you just said that I can't scan a QR code, and that's not true. I want you to retract that statement.

[Mike]

I call bull crap. I want to see you scan a QR code, man. We'll see.

[Allison]

So I was. Dad, don't worry. The next episode we record, I will retract the statement. My apologies, dad. Please forgive me. And everyone out there just know my dad. He can scan a QR code.

[Mike]

Yeah. So when you hear this, dad, make sure to say, you know, thank you.

[Allison]

I just know it was keeping a lot of people up at night.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like, wow, I'm really worried about Elson's dad. He can't scan a QR code.

[Allison]

So I just want to alleviate everyone's concerns. I was inaccurate, and I apologize.

[Mike]

That's all right. Well, good job.

[Allison]

Um, so we went out to, like, a lunch with our son, and they made these fresh battered potatoes. Oh, my gosh, they were so good. And I was so hungry, so I got excited and I took a bite, and they were really fresh out of the fryer. And I burned the top of my mouth.

[Mike]

You did? And you looked at me, you're like, they're hot. They're hot. And I made sure not to do anything bad. But, yeah, there was. This place is called Egg Bread. It's very super expensive. It's E gg B R E D. I think it's a chain. And for the three of us, it was $70.

[Allison]

Yeah. That's crazy, because it's not like you're even getting served. It's counter service. Yeah, it's like McDonald's, but everything is freshly made, including the sauces. It was so good. And I have at least half of my breakfast burrito left over.

[Mike]

Our breakfast burritos happen to contain steak. And there were 20 freaking bucks each.

[Allison]

That's insane.

[Mike]

Yeah, I know. So I told I was joking with my friends. Like, I'm going to Egg Bread with my wife and son because I love to spend $20 on breakfast. And it was actually 23. 33 each is what it came out to.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's one of those things, you know, if you're going to treat yourself, you know, we could do.

[Mike]

But yeah, it's not a steak restaurant.

[Allison]

I'm sorry, but I can't not ever go back there.

[Mike]

Oh, my God, that sucks. Well, I'm sorry. I tried to save the family money, the company, the family money by just getting water, and that's free, but you got whatever you want.

[Allison]

I had a San pelogrino.

[Mike]

Our son got a healthy kale drink or some crap, so I can't believe he Dr.

[Allison]

It personally. Yeah, I don't. I didn't ask him how it was.

[Mike]

It was all right. It tastes like every other healthy kale ginger drink that you've ever had in your life. And you might be asking why we didn't take our daughter because our daughter's at school right now and our son just leaves school whenever he wants.

[Allison]

Yeah, we were talking about that on our bonus episode. We're recording ahead of time just to get ahead for family vacations this summer. And our kids are still in school. It's to the tail end. And our son just apparently doesn't go to school anymore. It goes for a couple hours.

[Mike]

Are we good parents? Maybe. Are we bad parents? Maybe.

[Allison]

We have a good kid. We have two good kids.

[Mike]

We do.

[Allison]

So anyway, on that note, shall we dive into this episode?

[Mike]

Let's do it.

[Allison]

All right, so this is the murder of Dylan Redwine. So, on Sunday evening, November 18, 2012, when 13 year old Dylan Redwine landed at Durango La Plata Airport in Durango, Colorado, he was going to see his dad for Thanksgiving. Not because he wanted to, because a court had ordered him to do so. So he got settled and he texted his mom back to her earlier text. It was 7:06pm and he wanted to let her know that his dad had picked him up. So his text read yes, followed by a frowning emoji. But Elaine, his mother, knew exactly what this meant, and she felt sick inside, knowing that her son, who she'd nicknamed Bubby, did not want to be there at all with his father. But sadly, Elaine never saw her son again, as by the following evening, Dylan would be missing. So Dylan was born on February 6, 1999, as the younger of two sons to parents Elaine and Mark Redwine. His brother Corey was eight years older, and the family originally lived in Durango. This is a town in the southwestern portion of Colorado, not far from the borders of Utah, Arizona, as well as New Mexico. So two years before Dylan vanished, the town had a population of about 17, 000 in 2010. So after 18 years of marriage, when Dylan had been 8 years old, Elaine and Mark made the decision to divorce. And sadly, their custody battle was just as contentious as the split itself was. So after Elaine moved six hours away to Colorado Springs with her boys, she began Securing primary custody of Corey and Dylan. So meanwhile, Mark stayed back in the Vallecito area, a nearly five and a half hour drive southwest from where Elaine and her sons were living in Colorado Springs. So he was living in a three bedroom, two bath house at 2343 County Road in Bayfield, Colorado. It was on a quiet stretch of road that was truly surrounded by very vast and rugged land, dense forest, rugged mountain terrain. And he was near the Vallecito Reservoir. This is one of the state's largest and highest bodies of water that sits at 7,800ft. So since Mark worked as a long haul trucker, he was often away from home for long stretches of time. So Dylan and Corey would see their dad when they could, mostly over holiday breaks and such because of course they're going to school. So based on the emails that Mark was writing and communications that, that he was having with various people, it made it clear that he was not at all happy with this custody situation. Hence they were butting heads between Mark and Elaine. So the going back and forth between his mom and his dad's house was also wearing on Delina because of course, you know, he's more so established in the Colorado Springs area with his mom. One would think that more so of his friends were in that area. So to have to pack up and go back and forth on holidays and be away from his mom, you know, it was, it was hard for him.

[Mike]

It's tough.

[Allison]

So as he was growing and maturing, he also began to see exactly the type of person that his father was. So as his visits to Valisito were approaching, it became something that Dylan would dread. And his friends from Colorado Springs were able, able to easily pick up on the way that he was feeling. He was probably pretty obvious about it. So Joseph Caballos, who was 12 years old at the time, later testified that the night before Dylan had to fly out to see his dad for Thanksgiving of 2012, he could see not only dread in his friend's eye, but he also said fear. So after six Judicial District Judge David Dickinson had granted Mark visitation rights over the Thanksgiving holiday, there was really nothing that Dylan or Elaine could do about the situation because Dylan was a minor. And meanwhile Corey was able to avoid the same fate because he was 21 years old and he as an adult was allowed to make his own decisions. So Dylan's previous recent visits with his father hadn't gone well. They had argued a lot and they just really had not been getting along generally in the time frame leading up

[Mike]

to Thanksgiving, no physical Altercations, as far

[Allison]

as we know, nothing that we know of. So it was a very painful time for Elaine because her mother was battling cancer and she really wanted the family to spend what could be their last Thanksgiving together. Not only that, but she felt helpless that she wasn't able to do anything about her son's discomfort at the whole situation because he had no choice but to travel somewhere where he just did not want to be. So as Elaine pulled up to the airport and she watched her 13 year old walk from her car toward the double doors, her stomach was just tied up in knots. And sadly, as Dylan entered that airport, it was the last time she would ever see her son. So after he landed at Durango La Plata Air County Airport. Excuse me. Surveillance captured video of Dylan and Mark walking through the terminal together. And prosecutors later pointed out how, based on the footage, you could tell straight off the bat that father and son had little to no interaction between each other. And you know, when I, I think about when we're with our kids, it's just like chatter, chatter, chatter. We're talking, maybe messing around, pushing each other just to be funny. Yeah, none of that happened. It was almost like they were two strangers. Not only just, you know, physically distant because they were, there was like a span of, you know, area between them, but you could just tell in the video that they were emotionally distant. So from the airport, Mark drove Dylan to Walmart in Durango. They arrived there at 7:05pm to buy a couple of DVDs. And as was the case with the airport, surveillance from Walmart depicted the same situation. They were rarely interacting whatsoever as they wandered through Walmart. So from here they stopped off at McDonald's at 7:22pm and then they made the 30 minute drive to Mark's home on County Ride 5, or, excuse me, County Road 500. And they're just wanting to piece together the last moments of what Dylan's life entailed. So as he settled into his dad's house, Dylan was texting with his friend Amanda Saxton. They were just talking about normal things that teenagers talk about, movies and TV in general. He was telling her that he'd been watching Adventureland. So he was also texting with another friend. This is Ryan Nava, who actually lived nearby his dad's. So Dylan asked if he could spend the night at Ryan's house, but his dad told him no. So as the boys were continuing to text back and forth, they were starting to form a plan about the next morning. And Dylan said that he would go over to Ryan's grandmother's house and knock on her sliding door at 6:30am wow. It sounds like they were going to spend the whole day together. And it also sounds like Dylan just wanted to do anything in his power to spend as much time as possible away from his father.

[Mike]

Yeah, he's like, how early can I show up?

[Allison]

Right? So Dylan sent his final message at 9:37pm and by 9:46pm his phone's battery had died or his phone had been turned off. So Elaine was texting her son. She was just checking in, seeing how things were going. And at about 10pm There was no reply from him. So Dylan, being a typical teen, was never far from technology. So, you know, she found it strange that he hadn't responded, but maybe he was tired and he fell asleep. But sadly, from this moment, he went permanently silent. So when Ryan Nava was getting ready for bed that night, he made sure to set his alarm so that he was ready for his friend's knock that was expected on the sliding door of his Grandma's house at 6:30am so when he woke up the next morning, he texted his friend about 16 minutes after he expected him at 6:46am saying, hey, where are you? But he received no response. And according to Mark, he'd left his house at around 7:30am that Monday, November 19. He was going out to Durango to run some errands. And he claimed that when he left the house, Dylan had been asleep. So when he got back at around 11:30am he said that Dylan was gone, but the TV was on and it was tuned to Nickelodeon. There was a cereal bowl in the sink. And since Dylan's backpack containing most of his belongings was gone, Mark just made the assumption that his son had gone to hang out with some friends. So as the afternoon was continuing on and there was no word from Dylan, Mark said that he began calling around to see if anyone had heard from him, but no one had. So as he began looking more closely around his house, he said that he realized that all of Dylan's belongings were missing. And this is when he started to wonder what happened to him. So at 6pm Mark reported his son missing. And then he texted Elaine to explain that after he left Dylan home alone that morning, when Dylan had been sleeping, he came home in the, you know, late morning slash early afternoon to realize that Dylan wasn't there. But right off the bat to Elaine, something was just not right with the situation. She immediately texted her ex husband back. He wouldn't just leave. He would have called Me, I am so suspect of you right now. How could he just disappear?

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

So since Elaine knew her son so well, she knew how responsible of a kid he was. And he was always really good about getting himself up in the morning when he needed to be somewhere. She didn't need to be on him about things like that. He just did it. So since he told Ryan that he would be over there at 6:30am Mark's story right away did not make sense to, to her at all. Because Mark is saying that he left the house at 7.30am and he claimed that he tried to wake Dylan up at that point in time, but Dylan didn't want to get up. And right right away to Elaine she's like, there's no way he would tell his friend, I'll be there at 6:30. And then an hour after that point he's telling his dad he doesn't want to get up. Not, not a chance.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

So after Elaine called 91 1, the dispatcher took down the details as she prepared to make the five and a half hour drive from her home in Colorado Springs. So she arrived in bayfield at about 2am on Tuesday, November 20, and she was holding Dylan's pillow from home so that police dogs would be able to track his scent.

[Mike]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that can get the bloodhounds on him. Try to find anything you can.

[Allison]

So she's sitting there, it's 2:35am and she felt utterly terrified and desperate and she texted her son, Dylan, please be safe, mom is here to come and get you. So police dogs were able to track Dylan, sent about a hundred yards through the frigid cold down the road from Mark's house until the scent was suddenly lost. So the search for 13 year old Dylan was one of the largest and most grueling searches that La Plata county had ever seen. Since the landscape and the surrounding area of Mark's home was so vast and rugged, spanning roughly 12 miles of wilderness around the Vallecito Reservoir, it was truly an arduous task. So not only did temperatures drop well below freezing, but the terrain rose and fell between 8,000 to 11,000ft of elevation between mountains, steep canyons, as well as the dense forests that were lying in between. So authorities as well as volunteer searchers methodically canvassed the area, searching the reservoir utilizing dogs, divers, boats that were equipped with sonar, helicopters, fixed wing aircraft and teams were handing out flyers with Dylan's information. Because of course at this point in time they don't know what happened to him. Did he potentially run away from his father's house. So they wanted his image to be around town just in case anyone had seen them. They were also searching through any abandoned buildings, going door to door to people's homes, just to raise as much awareness as possible. So the group of searchers grew to about 200 with, like I said, all these volunteers just combing through the landscape. So according to Mark, his son's fishing rod was one of the items that were missing from his house. And this suggested that, you know, maybe he went out to the lake alone since he loved the outdoors. But again, it wouldn't make sense that he would have just blown his friend off when he wanted to go and see him. Yeah, he wanted to have a sleepover. When Mark didn't allow that, then they were planning for 6:30am so Dylan wouldn't have woken up that morning. Like, I'm going to go out fishing and screw anybody. Yeah, exactly. So with this information about the missing fishing pole, they heavily focused on the reservoir. But from the beginning, Elaine argued vehemently against this idea. So according to Elaine, her son was not at all a lover of fishing, and he wasn't even able to string his own rod. So she also argued that he never watched Nickelodeon, and instead he preferred MTV because, of course, Mark said he came home and the TV was tuned to Nickelodeon.

[Mike]

Interesting. So it's like, no, I. I know my son.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

That's not what he would put on. Like, the. Mark might think that because he still sees him as a little kid and he barely gets to see him. So that's kind of telling him. And it's like him going fishing is like our son going fishing. Our son doesn't fish.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

He has no idea.

[Allison]

That's a ridiculous idea. So the small details her ex had been painting were just not lining up with who she knew her son to be. So as the days turned into weeks, the search expanded as tips flooded in from all across the as well as around the globe. And calls ranged from psychics to someone in Australia who was claiming to have seen Dylan in a restaurant, which is ridiculous. So vigils were held while Dylan's friends join in on searches. They were all desperate to find their friend. Billboards and signs around town posted information about the missing teen. The La Plata County Sheriff's Office was working alongside the Durango Police Department as well as the FBI and the cbi. But at this point in time, you know, time is passing and they started to run out of places to look for Dylan. So from the beginning, Mark's behavior struck many people as off. And he gave the appearance of someone who was not. He was just basically feigning concern. They could see that it wasn't genuine. And while volunteers are out in the frigid temperatures of night combing through this vast terrain, Mark was in home in bed, asleep. And meanwhile, Elaine was basically running on no sleep at all. So, of course, this was broached to Mark. You know, why aren't you out there? Why aren't you combing the landscape like that always happens?

[Mike]

Why aren't these, like, criminals onto this sort of thing? Like, wouldn't you pretend even, like they said, feigning, but like, wouldn't you be out there just to show face?

[Allison]

Just to show face. But, you know, not all criminals are smart. And when you know someone isn't alive and you're not going to find them, he's probably thinking, well, I'd rather sit on the couch and watch TV than, you know, comb through the landscape.

[Mike]

Yes, so.

[Allison]

So Mark claimed to be helping to find his son in his own way. But outside of a handful of media appeals, he was not at all out in the wilderness searching alongside everyone else. So there were a lot of red flags. So those who watched the news coverage of Dylan's case couldn't help but notice that Mark was also referencing his son in the past tense. And that is also another red flag. And she was. He was describing his. Her son, excuse me, as a wonderful boy who meant everything is what he was telling the camera. So according to Mark's co worker, he was surprised when Mark had come in the morning after he had picked Dylan up from the airport because it was his assumption that he would have wanted to spend as much time as possible with his son because he wasn't always there.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's a Thanksgiving holiday. Take a few days off and just hang out and go do stuff.

[Allison]

And it wasn't just that. He just noticed that he looked especially haggard and exhausted. It looked like he'd been on a bender and that he hadn't gotten any sleep at all. So when police came to his home for a statement, they saw that the house was basically just littered with empty liquor bottles. So meanwhile, Elaine was very outspoken about her suspicions and firm on the belief that Mark knew more than he was letting on. It was just a mother's gut instinct that something more he knew for sure. So within days of Dylan's disappearance, investigators spoke with Betsy Horvath. This is Mark's ex wife. And she also believed that Mark had done something to Dylan. So during A camping trip back in the late 1980s when they had been staying out at this remote campsite in the mountains. He looked around and randomly said to her, this would be a good place to leave a body.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

And during their divorce and custody battle, he told Betsy that he would kill their kids before he let her have them. So these words were now especially haunting because he was the last person to see Dylan. He and Elaine were in the midst of a contentious custody battle regarding Dylan, and he lived in a very remote and rugged area.

[Mike]

If you were reading a book and you read this, that this guy just so happened to say, I'm gonna kill my kids before I let you get them, you'd like, no, that's not believable. That's. What a terrible book. This isn't a book, unfortunately.

[Allison]

This is something he said. So Dylan had been outspoken about the fact that he had zero interest in visiting his father, who he felt uncomfortable with. And he was just tired of hearing him speak poorly about his mom and his older brother. So even more concerning, authorities came to learn that about a year before Dylan disappeared, he, his dad and Corey were on a road trip together in 2011, and a then 12 year old Dylan had come across something concerning on his father's laptop. So they're in the hotel room together and Mark had fallen asleep and Dylan was doing whatever on his dad's laptop. And he came across very shocking and disturbing photos. And these photos depicted Mark wearing women's lingerie and eating feces from a baby's diaper while he himself was dressed in a diaper.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. Could you imagine finding that at your own father?

[Allison]

No. And sadly, I have seen this photo.

[Mike]

Oh, God, I'm so sorry. I know Dylan is no longer with. I mean, I don't know that, but I. It sounds like it, but.

[Allison]

Well, I titled this the murder of Dylan Redwine.

[Mike]

Sorry, I try to block it out. So it's just. That's disgusting. Oh. I mean, people into their own thing. Do your thing. Right? But that'd be really hard to see my dad eating somebody's poop just like a baby.

[Allison]

And that's the thing, you know, were people are into their thing, they may not be hurting anyone, but for a 12 year old to see this with his father, that's a shock to the system. So Dylan quickly got his older brother's attention and motion Corey to come into the hotel room's bathroom.

[Mike]

Corey, I got some pictures you're gonna want to see.

[Allison]

So after they quietly lock the door, the brothers combed over the photo. You know, there's more. Corey was taking photos of these pictures with his phone.

[Mike]

Good for him. That's funny.

[Allison]

So Corey later testified that Dylan had been quietly keeping the knowledge of these photos as leverage, something that he could use against his dad if he ever tried to lecture him or establish some sort of moral authority.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

And it sounds like that was happening a lot. When Dylan would be spending time with him, he would put Corey and Elaine down in front of Dylan, who truly loved his mom and his brother and did not want to hear that. Not to mention now he's got the secret of knowing these photos exists. And he's like, f you, dad. Inside, he's saying that. So only three months before he vanished, Dylan texted Corey, asking him to send him the photos after their father had just given him the speech about how Corey was a bad example to hematology. So Corey chose not to send the photos to his little brother.

[Mike]

Good job, Corey.

[Allison]

But he did send them to his dad, which meant that before Dylan boarded that plane to stay with his dad over the Thanksgiving break, Mark knew that his sons had discovered this secret part of himself. So Dylan had also confided in his friends, telling them that he planned to confront his dad about these pictures over the Thanksgiving break. And whether he did this on the first night of his visit, we'll never know, because Dylan is no longer with us and Mark is feigning innocence.

[Mike]

Well, it's probably after Dylan wasn't allowed to spend the night at Ryan's house.

[Allison]

Exactly.

[Mike]

So he's probably like, well, you know what, man? You eat poo out of diapers and dress like a baby. How about that?

[Allison]

So that is exactly what investigators think, that after his dad denied him from spending the night at Ryan's house, he turned to him and said, screw you. I know all about these pictures. And then prosecutors would later argue that when Dylan confronted his dad, Mark erupted into a violent rage that ended his own son's life. So two months after he vanished, Dylan's family and friends organized a protest outside of Mark's home, and they were demanding answers from him. But of course, he's staying tight lipped, saying that he has nothing to do with whatever happened to Dylan. So not only had he been the last person to see him, but of course, we know he's done little to search for him. So by early December, the task force involved in Dylan's disappearance made the significant announcement that they determined that Dylan had absolutely not run away, because that's what Mark kept relying on. I left at 7:30, he was sleeping. I came back at 11:30, he was gone, his belongings were gone, the fishing pole was gone, etc. Etc. Etc. They determined, based on the evidence they found in this case, he absolutely had not run away. And they didn't elaborate as to why they had come to this conclusion. But it was clear that investigators determined that rather than wandering off, someone had done something to Dylan. So Mark's neighbor, Carrie Cochran, noticed that On Monday morning, November 19, Mark's exterior front porch light had been on at 2am but later that morning, she had looked out, it was still dark outside, and she saw that the light had been turned off. And it sounds like this was very unusual for what was typical for Mark.

[Mike]

That's why she noticed.

[Allison]

So after search warrants were secured for Mark's home, they found Dylan's blood in multiple areas of the living room, including the couch, the floor in front of the couch, the corner of the coffee table on the floor, under the rug, as well as on a love seat. So Mark's home had been previously severely damaged in a fire. So a remodel had happened and it finished in March of 2012. This is eight months before Dylan's Thanksgiving visits. According to Mark, his son hadn't visit him, visited him much, you know, since this remodel. So the idea that there'd be a reason for Dylan's blood to be in the house is kind of absurd. But, you know, he's saying, well, it's probably when we were roughhousing, you know, he maybe got a bloody nose or something like that. Number one, Dylan couldn't stand his father. So the idea that they'd be like rough housing around, that's not going to happen. So on August 5, 2013, this is about nine months after Dylan disappeared. A human remains detection dog handler and her canine named Molly searched through Mark's home to determine if a deceased person had been present at that location. So Molly indicated the presence of human, excuse me, remains in various areas around the house, including exactly where blood had been found in the living room as well as in the washing machine. These were indications of the presence of a large source of human remains. Molly also alerted at Mark's clothing that he reported to be wearing on the night of his son's disappearance. And of course, he is seen on CCTV footage picking Dylan up at the airport and also walking through Walmart. So when Molly searched Mark's dodge pickup truck Six months later, in February 13, 2014, the dog alerted to several locations, including the bed of the truck. So one would assume at some point in time, Dylan's body was placed in the cab of the truck or the. The bed of the truck. Thank you. So although Mark had claimed that Dylan's fishing pole was missing, of course he's. This is bringing up the idea that maybe he went up to the reservoir and something happened to him. Maybe he tripped into the water or maybe an animal got him. You know, we're talking about terrain that has a lot of bears and mountain lions and things like that. So investigators confirmed that it was not there during their initial searches of Mark's house. But then suddenly, In July of 2013, it was back in Mark's garage. Although law enforcement had been searching for the pole since Dylan disappeared, and Mark had been asked repeatedly to look for it, make sure it's not there somewhere. He said he did not find it until he was moving an ATV in his garage. So while the search for Dylan continued, the case exploded onto national headlines, and Mark, Elaine, and Corey all appeared together on the Dr. Phil show in February 2013.

[Mike]

Wow. All together.

[Allison]

All together. As well as in later episodes. So on the show, Elaine confronted Mark on camera, believing that he had done something terrible to their son. And likely his remains were lying somewhere out in the mountains.

[Mike]

I didn't know Dr. Phil did those kind of shows. That's pretty aggressive. I mean, you'd have to have some security there, too, just in case.

[Allison]

And I'm actually really surprised that Mark agreed to show up on camera, but that just goes to show what kind of a person we're dealing.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So Mark denied having any involvement, calling the suggestion unconscionable. Is. Am I saying that right? Unconscionable. So when the subjects of Mark's hidden photos came up, he ridiculously claimed that he had staged the images as a deliberate trap because he suspected that his sons were snooping around his things.

[Mike]

Yeah, you can set other traps. It doesn't have to be you in diapers and eating poo poo.

[Allison]

And there was like. Like feces on his mouth. So Elaine knew in her soul, she knew that Mark had something to do with whatever happened to their son. He was clearly only concerned about himself, not at all about Dylan. So In April of 2013, this is five months after Dylan vanished. Dylan's stepfather saw Mark driving his pickup truck along Middle Mountain Road. And this is a remote gravel road that climbs up into the mountains above the Vallecito Reservoir. And since the road is so rugged and primary, primarily utilized by hunters, campers, and ATV riders, it just struck him as something that was very Odd. It's not a place where people just go and drive up to. You're going up there for a reason. So during the winter time, the road is basically inaccessible since snow blankets the terrain at elevations that are between 8,000 and 11,000ft. And the accumulations, because it's so elevated, last even well into summer. So since the roads and paths are normally closed during the colder months, searchers just had no access to Middle Mountain Road while they were searching for Dylan. So when the snow finally began to melt in June of 2013 and investigators were finally able to reach this area, the 7 month search for Dylan came to a tragic end. So on June 25, 2013, searchers first came upon Dylan's Nike Air Jordan shoes. They had gotten caught up in some of the branches up there. So over the next five days, authorities searched over a roughly 1 mile area of the upper portion of Middle Mountain where they recovered three human bones, torn scraps of a T shirt, an elastic underwear band and a sock. And this was about 8 miles up middle Mountain Road from Mark's house, about a mile past the gate that closes seasonally around November 30th each year. His remains were found only a hundred yards or so from the road off of an ATV trail. And since Mark had an atv, he was very familiar with the area of Middle Mountain Road.

[Mike]

So it was open at the time of Dylan's death.

[Allison]

It was, it was a few weeks off of closing. So on November 1, 2015, this is almost two and a half years after Dylan's initial remains were found. Hikers were about a hundred and, excuse me, a mile and a half, my mile and a half higher up on Middle Mountain Road. And this is when they found Dylan's skull in a coyote den. So according to a wildlife expert, no animal that is known to this area would have moved the body up the mountain from Mark's house had Dylan left Mark's house and been attacked and killed by a bear or a mountain lion. That's just not how they work. So even more so, Dylan's skull had been found even farther away from the rest of his remains, which was consistent with a human concealing the skull in order to hide the victim's identity and the cause of their death rather than an animal. So it just, it would not have happened, number one, that the initial remains were moved farther and then the skull was moved that much farther. So according to forensic anthropologists, Dylan's skull had injuries that were consistent with blunt force trauma at two locations. One that was above his left eye. And these were two small markings that were consistent with a knife or a tool that left a V shaped indentation in the bone rather than from markings from animal teeth because that becomes a big part of the trial. Is this a human made tool or is this done from an animal? So an animal, if they were to attack the bone would leave a U shaped mark rather than a V shaped mark. So these markings occurred perimortem, meaning that the bone still had characteristics of wet bone that was similar to a recently deceased person.

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[Allison]

So on June 27, 2013, when Mark was notified that his son's first remains had been found, Dylan's half brother Brandon Redwine, had told authorities about the strange conversation that he'd had with his dad. And Mark was mentioning blunt force trauma several times in discussing how investigators would have to find the rest of his body, meaning his skull, before they could determine his cause of death. So it just seemed very strange to Brandon.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm specifically bringing that up when that's exactly what they were looking for.

[Allison]

Exactly. So Mark had been alone with Dylan on the last night of his life. When Dylan sent his last message at 9:37pm on Sunday night, November 18, 2012. Dylan's blood was found in various areas of Mark's living room while cadaver dogs alerted that a deceased person had been in his living room on Mark's clothing as well as the bed of his pickup truck. Dylan's remains were then ultimately found in an area where Mark was both familiar with and had access to. And he'd been seen driving along this very road by Dylan's stepfather. So while Dylan's remains have been found or were found in two locations, obviously we know his skull was found further away. It was clear that this had been done intentionally in order to twofold con conceal his identity as well as his cause of death. And no doubt this had been done by the last person that had been with him. So following a grand jury indictment for second degree murder and child abuse resulting in death, Mark was arrested finally on July 22, 2017 in Washington state. This is nearly five years after his son's murder, and he pleaded not guilty and he remained in custody on a one million dollar cash only bond. So the trial was initially set to begin a year later in 2018, but there were several delays. One actually involved the arrest of mark's lawyer on domestic violence charges.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Allison]

And then that happened in 2019. And of course we know what happened the next year was Covid. So the trial didn't begin until June 21, 2021, when Mark Redwine was 59 years old. So Corey redwine testified about how the accidental discovery of their father's photos had really severely damaged Dylan's relationship with their father. He just could never ever look at him in the same way. And anytime he preached about what he should be doing differently or what Corey or Elaine were doing, Dylan just couldn't even stand to hear it.

[Mike]

He pictures him in diapers.

[Allison]

I mean, how could you not? So prosecutors argued that mark had killed his son in a fit of rage After Dylan confronted him about the photos that were shown in court. So they accused mark of dismembering his son's body and then scattering his skull and other remains up middle mountain road from his house. House.

[Mike]

How absolutely sick do you have to be to dismember murder and dismember your own son? That's nuts.

[Allison]

Think about what he had said to his ex wife. I would rather kill our children than let you have custody like that would

[Mike]

never enter my mind. That's so crazy sick.

[Allison]

So under cross examination, Corey said he sent the photos to his dad in August of 2012, while Dylan and mark had been alone on a trip together. Since Dylan hadn't been harmed during that trip, Mark's defense attorney, John Moran, was arguing that the photos were not at all connected to Dylan's death. And he suggested that Dylan had run away from home. So fractures on Dylan's skull showed clear evidence of blunt force trauma leading to his death, While smaller cuts and markings suggested that it had been tampered with using human tools. Because that's what the defense attorney, John moran, is arguing that Dylan ran away and then he was subsequently attacked and killed by a bear or a mountain lion or whatever. So defense Attorney Moran was arguing that, you know, these markings hadn't come from human tools, and instead they had come from an animal. And, you know, he's saying that Dylan left his dad's house on foot, and that's when he was attacked. So Brandon Redwine, this is Dylan's half brother from the other marriage, testified about how his father had spontaneously broached the subject of blunt force trauma several times during a phone conversation that happened in June of 2013. This is the very day that the bones on the mountain were confirmed to be Dylan's. But two years before his skull was found to confirm that, yes, blunt force trauma had been involved. And as Brandon hung up that phone, he turned to his wife and said, it's as if my dad is trying to tell me what happened. And of course, we know that was years before the skull was found. So, according to testimony from forensic pathologist Robert Kurtzman, Dylan's manner of death was homicide. And he agreed with forensic anthropologist Diane France, who testified earlier in the trial that Dylan's skull had evidence of blunt force trauma. But, you know, we're talking about. Time has greatly passed since his remains were found. So there were no organs or soft tissue that had been available to evaluate. So they couldn't definitively say that the blunt force trauma killed him. We do know that there was blood involved, though, because blood was found in several areas of Mark's house, but we don't know. Maybe he was also strangled.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's impossible to say.

[Allison]

So there were sharp injuries found at the cheek area of Dylan's skull. Markings that do not occur in nature because bears don't walk through the woods with knives.

[Mike]

Did any professional person say that this could have been animals?

[Allison]

No.

[Mike]

Every professional said, no, these are human. The only person was Mark's lawyer who's like, oh, it's probably animals.

[Allison]

Yep.

[Mike]

Okay, so people that actually know disagree.

[Allison]

Yes. And. And even just the way that the bones were scattered so far up the mountain, that would never have happened. Animals would have never brought them up that high. That in and of itself, because, of course, when they're finding the first bones, they don't have evidence of this blunt force injury. They're already very suspicious based on that fact. And then they find Dylan's skull and they say, absolutely not. It's V markings versus U markings. That would happen with an animal. So on July 16, 2021. Oh, excuse me, I missed a part. So, in regards to the blood evidence that was found in Mark's living room, this was a match to Dylan, of course, Moran was arguing that the amount of blood that was scene had been so small that it was likely left behind from normal activity of a 13 year old boy who liked to be active and play baseball and football and went fishing. But again, Dylan had spent very little time in that house since the renovations had happened. And we're talking about the first night of a trip that he does not want to be on. He's texting at 9:30, something is his last text. There's no rough housing happening, there's no baseball happening, there's no reason why his blood should be in several areas of that house. So again, you know, he also is arguing about the fact that that canine dog Molly was alerting, saying that tracking dogs often hit on false positives.

[Mike]

Sure.

[Allison]

So on July 16, 2021, after less than a day of deliberations, the jury did come back with a verdict. And Mike, what do you think? Because again, he's charged with second degree murder and child abuse resulting in his son's death.

[Mike]

I can't believe it's not first degree. So, second degree. Yeah, no problem.

[Allison]

Right. Second degree. Because it's not that it was pre planned, it's that he erupted in a fit of anger after Dylan confronted him about these photos.

[Mike]

Right. So guilty.

[Allison]

Easy, easy. Guilty. Yes. So as the verdict was read, Mark showed very little emotion. Shocking. And he just stood there with his hands clasped in front of him. So on October 8, 2021, Mark was sentenced to 48 years in prison. And again he was 59 years old at this time. So he will die in prison.

[Mike]

Good. The sooner the better.

[Allison]

So although Elaine had felt heartbroken watching her 13 year old son walk away from her car towards the terminal where he was going to board that plane to spend Thanksgiving with his father. She knew her son did not want to go. But in her wildest dreams, she never imagined that her ex husband was capable of killing their child.

[Mike]

Right. Otherwise she would have never let him go.

[Allison]

So Elaine is just left to wonder what her son's last moments were like.

[Mike]

Absolutely horrific.

[Allison]

How he must have felt looking up at his father as he began to attack him.

[Mike]

Yeah. Scared, lonely, you know, just wishing he was anywhere else, I'm sure. Poor kid.

[Allison]

How do you do this to your child?

[Mike]

I don't know. You hope somebody in prison takes care of him. He's useless.

[Allison]

So since Mark has maintained his innocence, no one will ever know exactly what happened in the living room on that Sunday night, November 18, 2012. But what is known is that 13, this 13 year old boarded a plane that he did not want to board, and he landed in a place that he did not want to spend his break with. A person that made him feel highly uncomfortable. But because a court order insisted that he be there, neither Dylan nor Elaine could have done anything about it. So after years of searching, waiting, and holding out on hope, it all came down to Mark. Mark Redwine, the person who helped create his child, who had been there, meant to protect him, the person who ultimately ended his life. Although justice has been served, it doesn't take away the fact that Dylan will never be coming back home. A memorial bench sits at Pine River Cemetery in Bayfield with Dylan's name on it. While friends and family have left painted rocks, baseball. Excuse me, baseball gear, flowers there. Things that remind them of Dylan. On February 6, 2017, what would have been Dylan's 18th birthday, a time when he would have been allowed to make that decision. I'm not going to my dad's for Thanksgiving. He never got to see his 18th birthday. A small group gathered at the bench with pizza, sodas and birthday cake, and they sat there and they shared memories about their friend. So when his friends graduated from high school in 2017, there was an empty chair there that was set up among the graduating class with a photo of Dylan displayed. And those who walked across the stage that Dylan had been meant to walk across wore a blue and silver ribbon in his honor. So if you suspect or are aware that a child is being abused, please contact the National Child abuse hotline at 800-422-4453 or text begin to that same number. And that is a sad and tragic murder of Dylan Redwine, who was killed at his own father's hands.

[Mike]

It's incredibly sad. Now, obviously, did Mark have any sort of history of violence?

[Allison]

Not that I know of. Nothing was ever mentioned in any of the research that I did. But of course, he had made concerning statements before.

[Mike]

I mean, people say dumb crap all the time, right? So it wasn't enough for his ex wife to say anything to anybody else, right?

[Allison]

No, not until after the fact. After Dylan went missing and he was under his care and everyone knew how tumultuous it was then she was like,

[Mike]

oh, man, I wish I would have said something. But.

[Allison]

But even so, you know, it's like, even Elaine, yes, Elaine, was heartbroken at the fact that, number one, her son didn't want to be there but had to go. And number two, her mother was battling cancer, and she really wanted them to have potentially one last Thanksgiving together, but never in her wildest dreams did she think Mark was capable of killing Dylan?

[Mike]

Yeah, you can't blame his mom. You can't blame the system. Like there was no reason to keep them apart. I mean, you know, you wish they were still together, but a dad still has rights to see his son. Right.

[Allison]

And you know, it, it is interesting because of course the lawyer John Moran had brought up the fact that Corey had texted his dad the photos when they had been. When I say they. When Dylan and Mark had been on a vacation together alone. And you know, John said, well, you know, he didn't kill his son then, but maybe Dylan didn't confront his dad, maybe he didn't say anything where I suspect exactly what the prosecution said, that he wanted to go and have a sleepover at Ryan's house and that's when he blew up. Dylan said like, screw you dad. I know all about these photos. And clearly a violent altercation happened resulting

[Mike]

in probably like I'm not listening to anything from you anymore about anything. So you have no idea. Like what. Yeah. What's going on in my life and I don't even want to be here and I hate you and you're crazy. Like he probably just blew up.

[Allison]

Right. And he clearly didn't know what his son was into mentioning the fact that the TV was tuned into Nickelodeon. And Elaine's probably like, he hasn't watched Nickelodeon in three years.

[Mike]

He's not six.

[Allison]

He's not six any longer. Or probably six plus years that he hadn't watched Nickelodeon. It just goes to show that Mark didn't know his son. He's mentioning oh, the fishing pole. And Elaine's like, he doesn't fish. Like what do you. He doesn't know his son.

[Mike]

No, no, he's. He's a loser. Hopefully he dies in prison very quickly

[Allison]

and he will die behind bars.

[Mike]

Yeah, well, you know, like I said, sooner the better. And he deserves to wink, wink, nudge, nudge somebody. Go ahead.

[Allison]

So just a super, super sad story about this 13 year old boy that didn't want to go see his father and then his life ends on the very night that he lands at that airport.

[Mike]

Yeah, so sorry to. And the family and just friends and all that stuff.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's just tragic. But thank you guys so much for listening. We appreciate you all so very much. If you don't mind leaving us a five star review on Spotify or Apple, we would greatly appreciate that. If you're looking for bonus content, we got you covered on Apple subscriptions and Patreon. And then if you wouldn't mind just going over and subscribing to YouTube. We're trying to grow our channel slowly but surely. It's like the little engine that could.

[Mike]

Some thumbs up and all that. And hype. Hype somewhere is. If you scroll to the right, there's a hype button on YouTube. So go ahead and hype us up. I don't know. So give us a shot. We're gonna get there eventually. We are getting there. Gosh darn it.

[Allison]

Gosh darn it. Gosh darn it. But anyway, thank you guys. We hope you guys have a wonderful week. Take care of yourselves and each other. And until next time. Bye.

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