The murder of Karyn Slover | Ep 240

Summary

Crime and Coffee Couple - True Crime Podcast

Episode 240: The Murder of Karyn Slover

Air Date: April 12, 2026
Hosts: Allison and Mike

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Episode Overview

This week, Allison presents the tragic and complex case of Karyn Slover, a young mother whose 1996 murder and dismemberment shocked central Illinois and has left lingering questions nearly three decades later. The episode details the timeline, investigation, suspects, and possible wrongful conviction issues, while Mike reacts in real-time, providing both emotional responses and pointed questions. The discussion is rich with insight into forensic science, family dynamics, and the still-ongoing legal aftermath.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Discovery of Karyn Slover's Murder

• Timeline:

  • September 27, 1996: Karyn, 23, vanishes after borrowing her boyfriend David Swan’s car to pick up her son Colton. The car is found abandoned, engine running, lights on, personal effects inside, but no sign of Karyn.
  • September 29, 1996: A couple finds a garbage bag with human remains at Lake Shelbyville, leading to the discovery of Karyn’s dismembered body, distributed in 10 bags, weighed down with concrete and cinders.

• Early Investigative Leads:

  • Abduction theorized, possible carjacking, or Karyn willingly leaving car ruled unlikely — she was excited about a new modeling contract and never would have abandoned her son without communication.

The Investigation Unfolds

• Initial Suspects:

  • David Swan (Boyfriend):
    • Car owner, criminal history (impersonating officer, violent assault with .22 handgun).
    • Initially a prime suspect due to proximity to case and past violence.
    • Cleared by strong ATM surveillance-confirmed alibi during the window of the murder.
      Mike’s reaction (31:50): “If you broke into your ex’s home with a gun and struck her, that’s five years minimum, man.”
  • Michael Slover Jr. (Ex-husband):
    • History of abuse, drug/gun possession, and using bribery in his security guard job.
    • Nasty custody battle with Karyn. Motive established when Karyn threatened to leave Illinois with Colton.
    • Provided exhaustive alibi (multiple jobs that day) but acted suspiciously detailed in statements.

• The Slover Family:

  • Jeanette & Michael Sr. (Ex-in-laws):
    • Raised Colton during the week; Jeanette rumored to see Colton as “her own child” to a disturbing degree (breastfeeding rumors, possessiveness).
    • Both became suspects as evidence pointed to family involvement.

Forensic and Physical Evidence

• At the Scene(s):

  • Cinders, concrete, dog hair on duct tape, clothing remnants (buttons from Karyn’s jeans and blouse).
  • Power saw likely used for dismemberment.
  • Sand, rocks, gravel found in vaginal and anal cavities, likely placed intentionally.
  • Blood drop and fingerprint on the Finley Bridge, but fingerprint not matched to Slover family.

• Breakthroughs:

  • Forensic geologist linked cinders in David’s car and concrete chunks from body bags to concrete at “Miracle Motors,” Michael Sr.’s used car lot.
  • Extensive six-month sifting of soil at Miracle Motors yielded clothing remnants matching what Karyn wore.
  • Dog hair DNA: Hair found on the tape matched the Slover family dogs, an innovative forensic use at the time (53:46).

• Missing Murder Weapon/Saw:

  • .22 caliber weapon believed missing from Michael Sr.’s gun collection.
  • The saw and gun never found, weakening direct evidence.

Legal Proceedings & Convictions

• Arrests:

  • 2000: Michael Jr., Jeanette, and Michael Sr. are indicted for first-degree murder based on circumstantial but extensive forensic evidence and their looming motives.

• Trial Highlights:

  • Prosecution: Asserts Slover family murdered Karyn to prevent loss of access to Colton, using workplace materials (cinders, concrete, tape, dog hair) as damning trace evidence.
  • Defense: Attacks the button and dog hair evidence as “junk science”; suggests evidence contamination or alternative innocent explanations (e.g., clothes from auction cars, dog hair transferred via Colton).
  • Jury selection complicated by extensive local publicity — 91% had heard of the case (56:12).

• Verdicts and Sentences (63:48):

  • All three convicted of first-degree murder in 2002:
    • Jeanette: 60 years
    • Michael Sr. & Jr.: 65 years each

Aftermath & Recent Developments

• Custody of Colton:

  • Colton placed in foster care after the convictions; aunt Mary initially adopted him but was later ruled an unfit guardian.

• Appeals & the Innocence Project (66:12):

  • The Illinois Innocence Project (IIP) picked up the case, arguing forensic evidence was unreliable and new DNA could exonerate the Slovers.
  • 2024: IIP files to have three newly discovered DNA profiles (two female, one male) from the crime-scene tape and bridge submitted to national databases.
  • March 2026: Judge orders DNA to be submitted to CODIS.

• Current Status (as of 2026):

  • Michael Jr. released in 2024 after serving 22 years (pre-1998 sentencing laws).
  • Both parents died in prison (2022, 2025).
  • The case is under renewed scrutiny—potential for new suspects to be identified by the DNA results.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emotional Perspective:
  • Allison (05:32): “Sometimes people just need their feelings to be recognized and not pushed away because it just makes you feel that much worse. Emotions have motion, like they come and they go like waves…”
• On Motive and Family Tension:
  • Allison (35:19): “There’s that saying—a daughter has a mother for life, but a son has a mother until he has a wife.”
  • Mike (37:03): “Now this is Karen’s child, okay? It’s not yours. Now give me back my son. All right, lunatic.”
• On Forensic Innovation:
  • Allison (52:34): “Dr. Halverson is now agreeing to test the samples taken from the Slover’s dogs…this was actually the first criminal case using DNA analysis of a dog. I looked it up, and now it’s way more routine to do so. Which, why wouldn’t it be?”
• On the Crime’s Brutality:
  • Allison (39:25): “This is a person that existed and she, she, she was loved and she lived a life. And someone shot her seven times in the head and used a freaking power saw and then threw her body parts into a lake like she was a piece of trash.”
• On the Thin Evidence and Uncertainty:
  • Mike (75:00): “There’s just nothing directly tying them. That’s what sucks about it, I guess.”
  • Allison (77:14): “But you know, the fact that she was shot seven times in the head, Overkill. That’s six more times than it takes to kill a person.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 10:32 — Case intro and discovery of Karyn’s abandoned car
• 14:06 — Initial investigation, timeline of Karyn’s disappearance
• 23:36 — Discovery of the remains at Lake Shelbyville
• 25:02 — Autopsy findings: cause of death and strange evidence
• 28:02 — List of suspects; focus on David Swan and ex-husband Michael Slover Jr.
• 34:49 — Deep dive into Slover family motives, custody battle, and family dysfunction
• 39:12 — Forensic breakthroughs: cinders, dog hair, clothing evidence
• 43:52 — Concrete’s forensic analysis and search at Miracle Motors
• 46:42 — Buttons and textile forensics tied to Karyn’s last known clothing
• 52:34 — First-time use of dog DNA evidence in Illinois
• 56:03 — Arrest, indictment, and challenges of trial/jury selection
• 63:48 — Verdict: Slover trio found guilty
• 66:12 — Illinois Innocence Project steps in; new DNA evidence and legal hopes
• 70:31 — Case revisited in 2026; new developments and reflection
• 73:58 — Discussion of Colton’s fate and lasting impact on the family
• 76:45–78:37 — Speculation on who pulled the trigger and the mechanics of the crime

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Atmosphere & Banter

• The hosts inject classic married banter with moments of levity, but never make light of the crime itself.
• Mike’s honest, sometimes jaded questions and Allison’s sincere, research-backed storytelling make the hour feel like true-crime over coffee with friends.

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Final Thoughts and Questions

• The Slover convictions were based on circumstantial but unusually strong forensic linkage, including early use of animal DNA.
• The case highlights the murky lines between “junk science,” forensic innovation, and wrongful conviction—especially when new DNA evidence surfaces.
• As of this episode, the public is awaiting results from the newly submitted DNA—potentially the key to proving or disproving the Slover family’s involvement.

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For listeners seeking the balance between haunting true crime and genuine, sometimes lighthearted partnership, this episode is a standout blend—thoughtful, informative, and deeply human.

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For more cases and engaging discussion, subscribe to Crime and Coffee Couple wherever you listen to podcasts.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

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[Allison]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode with the crime and coffee couple. My name is Alison and my name's Mike. Hello, Mike.

[Mike]

Hey, Alejandro. How are you?

[Allison]

I'm doing all right. How are you?

[Mike]

That's not her actual name. It's Allison is her full name. Just so you know, just so there in case any new listeners and everything. It's Allison.

[Allison]

Ali, Alejandro.

[Mike]

I'm good. I'm really good. I'm feeling ready to go. I'm, you know, good. Nice morning here. Beautiful morning in Tampa, Florida. And yeah, just excited to be here and with you and all the listeners. So thanks.

[Allison]

Absolutely.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. We're. We're a couple. Every single Sunday, we come out with a brand new episode. We've been married over 20 years now. Right.

[Allison]

And it'll be 24 this year.

[Mike]

Dating since 1996.

[Allison]

Actually, this case takes place in 1996.

[Mike]

Wow. How about that? So that's, I mean, that's a long time. We're very, very old, I would say.

[Allison]

Are you tired of me yet?

[Mike]

No, not. I don't think so. I'm not right now. The second could change at any minute, who knows? But yeah, every single Sunday. And I have no idea what she's going to talk about. So it's something I dive into and you know, we used to say like a hate true crime. I would never seek it out to like go listen to or watch. Like, I probably wouldn't do any of that. I do all my, you know, some tiktoks and stuff for all the listeners and everything. But it's not something that I seek out. But, I mean, you have a way of telling a story. So these are you're horrible, horrible stories. We always say the worst day in these people's lives, their whole family and everything, and it's like they deserve to be remembered.

[Allison]

So what's been going on with you lately?

[Mike]

I, you know, we've got this crazy house here where my family, my parents, my mom and dad who are. My dad's 83. She's gonna be 83 this year. My mom's 78 right now. And they're in from Chicago for like three weeks.

[Allison]

So it was actually almost four.

[Mike]

Oh, my gosh. So they are. They are a little challenge. We love them, God love them.

[Allison]

And they listen to our podcast.

[Mike]

Well, at least my mom does. I think my dad's trying to he, God bless him. He wants to tell everybody about our podcast. He's like, how do I tell my friends about your radio station? And we're like, it's not radio, but you could say crime and coffee couple. And like they live in the 55 and over community, so they're just hanging out with a bunch of 70 and 80 year olds. So if one of you are listening to this at some point, some like magical miracle, then welcome to the show. But he's, he wants to make business cards.

[Allison]

Well, he's proud of his son.

[Mike]

Yeah. And daughter in law. And he wants, I was like, well, maybe we can put a QR code on the business card.

[Allison]

I don't know if like my dad doesn't really know how to scan QR codes. I'm like, it's just like you're taking a picture and then a link pops up.

[Mike]

Yeah. And it's not because of like they're stupid or anything.

[Allison]

They just didn't grow up with technology. So it seems like a foreign concept.

[Mike]

Yeah. So where I'm just like, I'll just make you some business cards and just have them type it into Google if they know what that is and then yeah, we'll see where they go.

[Allison]

Oh, it's just never a dull moment. And we had that flood in our house at the beginning of this year. It wasn't necessarily a flood, it was a leak and our floors got damaged. So we finally got those fixed this week. And so we had a contractor here doing the work and just, you know, never a dull moment. But we are so thankful that they are able to be here and visiting with us. And you have to just embrace those chaotic moments. And you know, sometimes when you have PMS and your mother in law spills 44 ounces of sticky swig in your kitchen for the second time.

[Mike]

Second time.

[Allison]

Well, the other one was out on the patio.

[Mike]

At least she spills. So my mom is like known for spilling.

[Allison]

I mean even 30 years ago when she was in her 40s, she would, she was known to spill.

[Mike]

She was one of the first people I knew that carried water around and like it was kind of new then. And my dad would always make fun of her. He's like, you think you're going to run out of water? Like you're going to be thirsty in the middle of a desert. And like every time before a car, she'd have a huge cup of water with her.

[Allison]

I could relate to that. Now I don't go anywhere without water.

[Mike]

Everybody's got their yetis or whatever, and it's like, so she was always one of those people in, like, at a restaurant, she'd reach across for something in a gigantic water glass, just gone, like, entirely, so.

[Allison]

Or like a sticky martini, and it'd just be all over everything.

[Mike]

So every time she's walking around with a cup or we're like, please, please, mom, watch out. She's like, I know, I know. I'm like, I know you know, but you've got a history. And I. I heard it as in the office. I was working, like, right over here the other day, and I hear. I was like, oh, God.

[Allison]

I mean, a flood. And mango chunks are scattered across the kitchen floor.

[Mike]

And that's the worst. The stickiness.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Like, if it's water, it's fine.

[Allison]

It's like, anything sticky, like, wipe it off, it's fine. But actually, it cleaned up pretty well. And I just did a quick mop. I was expecting residual stick. Hasn't happened.

[Mike]

And I'll tell you, from my vantage point, you didn't sound too annoyed.

[Allison]

No, I. So I am PMSing, I'm going to admit to that. Yes. So I took a deep breath inside, and I was like, okay, this is just spilled drink. You know, there could be worse things happening in life. You know, you have to. It's all about perspective and taking a step back and being like, is this really a big deal? And most of the time, it's really not.

[Mike]

Right. I mean, you can always say things could be worse. Right. But that doesn't necessarily make the moment feel better.

[Allison]

It kind of diminishes a person's feelings when you're like, well, it could be worse. It's like, f, off. I'm upset right now.

[Mike]

The example I always think of is when little kids don't want to eat something. You're like, well, there's people starving. It's like, they don't care about the people starving. I mean, they care. Right.

[Allison]

But they're not thinking about that at that moment in time when they're looking at their peas, thinking, I don't like peas.

[Mike]

Yeah, you're not meeting them where they are. You're, like, bringing up something that doesn't even enter their brain.

[Allison]

Yeah. And I just. Sometimes people just need their feelings to be recognized and not pushed away because it just makes you feel that much worse. And I always just say, like, motions have. Or emotions have. Motion, like they come and they go like waves. So just let them be there, accept them, deal with them, and then they're going to be gone.

[Mike]

I think that's a great thing for you to keep in mind. Especially yesterday when you said I had an opinion on everything and that you didn't like my opinion.

[Allison]

Mike legitimately likes to debate.

[Mike]

I love it.

[Allison]

Sometimes I just don't have the bandwidth to debate everything that I talk about.

[Mike]

It's not everything. It's like you. That's. That was the problem. I said, don't turn, turn this little thing into everything. Always. Like, that's. Once I know you jump from this moment to everything. Always. Then I'm like, wait, we're getting a little out of hand here.

[Allison]

Sometimes it just annoys the living crap out of me. I forgot even what I was talking about.

[Mike]

Yeah, no surprise. It was just like a regular little thing. I had an opinion on something. I was like, well, I don't know. That's not always so bad.

[Allison]

I know what it was. I was doing a webinar because I'm a clinical dietitian and I have to keep up my continuing education. So I was doing a webinar on exercise addiction. And we were talking about, or they were talking about, I should say Eminem had developed. He said he has a very addictive personality just as a whole. So he got addicted to running to the detriment of his body. He was losing weight, rapidly injuring himself. And I was saying, you know, it kind of reminds me of when we are. We were on our four night cruise and it was like 8pm on the last night of the cruise and you could see people just running on a treadmill. And that to me kind of says exercise addiction. Because unless you're training for a marathon and you gotta get that training session in, or perhaps you're going to be in a fitness competition and you have to get in like on a Sunday night on a cruise at 8pm when there's live shows happening and you could be connecting with the family you're traveling with and you're on a treadmill with headphones on in a gym. That to me speaks to maybe it's an unhealthy relationship with exercise.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And Mike's like, wow, how about I

[Mike]

say what I was actually saying? Because we all know Allison lies. So what I was saying was, yeah, when I was working out a lot of heavy lifting, like I was four or five times a week of heavy, heavy lifting. Now I just do like three days a week and sometimes two Sometimes one and I was addicted to it. When we went on vacation I felt oh my God, I have to go work out. Like I just felt in my brain I got to go push some heavy, heavy metal. Right. And I got that piece a little bit. But they're so addicted to. Allison's thing is at 8 o' clock like you should be at a show or something. Not necessarily running but I'm going to remind you of last week maybe or a few weeks ago where we said don't yuck other people's yum. Right.

[Allison]

I'm just having an opinion on something. It doesn't mean I can't see two sides of a story.

[Mike]

Yesterday you did not see two sides of a story because I was going

[Allison]

on literally we were sitting in the office together and I was just mentioning it to Mike and of course he's like, well on the other hand. And I'm like I, I, I'm in listening to a webinar doing true crime research. I don't want to sit here and have a debate with you.

[Mike]

This is why I can talk about almost anything because I'm open minded.

[Allison]

So he's open minded guys.

[Mike]

I see what the other side of things are. So I always try to look at, you know, I, I one time I asked Chatgpt what's my like worst thing about me or something. Right. My, I don't know. Sin. Not sin, but something that is going

[Allison]

to get me and something that's super annoying.

[Mike]

Yeah. They say you always look at two sides.

[Allison]

So it's. And I am, I appreciate that because you should be open minded to life. But sometimes I just don't want to have a mother debate.

[Mike]

Well, what's the saying or whatever these really smart people are like if your mind can't be changed and like then you're already you're kind of an idiot.

[Allison]

I would agree with that. That you should be open to change because we don't always know everything.

[Mike]

If new facts are brought to your attention and be open to your mind should be able to be changed. Anything always. Like it shouldn't just be like because if you're so close minded and closed off it's like you're, you're done with that.

[Allison]

It's kind of sad. I always like the statement stay curious because you should stay curious because you know life has so many beautiful things to offer and my dad is somebody that it's like I don't like that. It's like okay, you don't like that. And once he says I don't like that. You are not going to get him to change.

[Mike]

He's gonna be watching this too, just so you know.

[Allison]

Well, dad, I love you, but he has a very strong personality about certain things.

[Mike]

Right now he's saying like, no, I like everything. Come on. And he sounds like that.

[Allison]

He's like, hey, about like the Olive Garden specifically. I don't like that. It's like, well, maybe you'd like the soup and the breadsticks.

[Mike]

Maybe give it a try. Maybe your tastes have changed over the years. Here's how he answers a font hello.

[Allison]

But dad, we love you.

[Mike]

We love you big time. We love all of our elderly parents.

[Allison]

Yes, God love them. And we're happy that we're able to spend this time with them because we lost my mom in 2025. And you know, that just goes to knock you that you need to spend time with the people you love because time doesn't stretch on forever.

[Mike]

Yeah, you never know.

[Allison]

Yeah. So on that note, we're kind of tailoring tail spinning off into the abyss here. We should probably get back on track. Are you ready to dive into this very dark and hot cup of coffee?

[Mike]

Yep.

[Allison]

All right, so this is a listener suggestion from Kim. And this is the murder of Karen Slover. So at about 10pm on Friday, September 27, 1996, an officer came upon a suspicious car and he found it left abandoned on the westbound side of side of I72. So we're over here in 1996 and we're near the Pima county line in central Illinois. This is about 40 miles northeast of Decatur, Illinois. So it was a very suspicious scene for this officer. Something immediately did not sit right with him. The engine of this 1992 black Pontiac Bonneville was running and the driver's side door was wide open. The headlights, the dome lights as well as the tail lights were on. But the driver wasn't there on the scene. And there were fast food bags kind of strewn across the car, mostly on the passenger seat. There were other items including a woman's black purse. It was sitting on the floor with some chunks of what looked to be like cement or cinders that were scattered about. So when the officer is trying to figure out who this car might belong to, he started by looking inside this purse that was sitting there and he found the driver's license that belonged to 23 year old Karen Slover. And meanwhile, once he ran the plates of this car, the car was registered to a 34 year old man named David Swan. So when the officer contacted David Swan, he Confirmed that yes, he was the owner of the car, but that late afternoon he had lent his car to his girlfriend, Karen Slover. And of course that matches the identification inside the purse. So he said that she borrowed it that evening to pick up her three year old son Colton, because her car was needing some work done to it. It needed an oil change and new brakes. And at 23 years old, it sounds like Karen was really trying to make ends meet, make money and be able to pay her bills. So although David and Karen had been friends for many months, they'd only recently started dating. So after she picked up Colton, this is what her plans were. It's not necessarily that she actually did this, but she was going to go pick up Colton and then she was planning on stopping off at the mall to go shopping for dresses. She was stopping at a mall that was south of Decatur because she and David were actually going to a wedding the following day. So she needed to get a dress to wear to it. And after she found the dress, she was planning on swinging by David's house to pick up some laundry that she'd left there. And then she was going to go home to make Colton dinner. So it was just going to be a pretty typical Friday evening. So David, meanwhile, had been at the wedding rehearsal and the dinner that night. I guess he was going to be the best man in the wedding. And when he got home at about 10pm he noticed that Karen's laundry bag was sitting in the same place that she'd left it. And of course she had mentioned that she was going to come by and pick it up. So he told the officer that the the car looked disheveled inside. When the officer looked inside, he said that is how he had left it when he last saw his car. At about 4:15 that evening, they had exchanged the car in the newspaper parking lot where they both worked. Although the cinders, he clarified that they saw scattered on the passenger side floor of the car had not been there. So after speaking with the officer, he just really couldn't wrap his head around any kind of reasonable explanation as to why Karen would have left the car just sitting there abandoned on the side of the road as it was found because again, the car's running, the lights are on, the door's wide open. What could you possibly rationalize she would have done this for?

[Mike]

Well, none. And that's where if as a boyfriend, I'd be worried, right? Sick.

[Allison]

Of course, this isn't painting a picture of something good. So when he called Karen's parents, this is Larry and Donna Hearn. They said that they last spoke with her when she was leaving for work, but they had not heard from her since. So after hearing about the way that their daughter left the car, they were immediately concerned. And knowing that she was planning on going to pick her son Colton up, her son was being cared for by her ex husband's parents, her ex in laws. This is Michael and Jeanette Slover. So he, her parents called them at about 10pm that Friday night. So Jeanette was explaining that no, Karen had not come by to get Colton. He's steer still here with us. So she didn't even call to say that she was running late. I will tell you that she normally did pick her son up between 5 to 6pm But Jeanette did indicate that Karen was often running late and sometimes Colton did spend the night with them. But based on all of my research, it sounded like Karen would have never just left her son there without communicating. Yes, he may have spent the night there. I think the week before he had spent maybe two nights. But Karen had always communicated. She'd picked up the phone and called.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, it's your kid. You're not just gonna be like, all right, well good luck, I'll talk to you maybe in a few days.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's like I'm just not gonna come and get him tonight. That wasn't the case. So this was definitely weird. So David filed a missing persons report which indicate or excuse me, easy for me to say. It initiated an official investigation. So more than 3000 flyers with Karen's photo were circulated throughout central Illinois in hopes that maybe somebody had seen her. So when authorities spoke with Karen's co workers from the Decatur based Herald and Review newspaper where she worked as an advertising rep, they said that she left that Friday evening right at about 5pm and no one had seen nor heard from her since that time.

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[Allison]

Wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, protect your dog from parasites with Credelio Guattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit credelioquatrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quatro and visit quattrodog.com. so although Karen did have a cell phone back in 1996, officers didn't find it among her belongings that were left behind in David's car because of course we know she left her purse and her identification there, but they didn't find her phone. So several of her friends confirmed that Karen was planning on picking Colton up and then heading to the Hickory Point Mall in Forsyth to get a dress. There was a little bit of confusion over what she was going to do first. Was she going to get the dress first? Because do you really want to try on dresses and go shopping with your three year old son? Usually not.

[Mike]

Yeah. Because speaking as a foreigner or three year old son, I'd be jumping all over the place, hiding in corners, just wreaking havoc.

[Allison]

Our kids daycare was right behind a super Target. So after work I would always swing into the Super Target if I needed something and then get the kids so that I wasn't hurting cats. Yeah, I was just in and out of target. It was much easier for me to focus without hurting a three year old. So there's question there. So those who knew her were very concerned and they began searching the area around the highway where David's car had been found abandoned. And we're talking about rural central Illinois. There's a lot of cornfields and things

[Mike]

like that here outside of like Chicago, like Illinois is corn fields and farms

[Allison]

for days, just flatland. And it is the most boring drive you will ever make because I have made that countless times from where we live in the suburbs of Chicago or lived, I should say down to Florida because my parents had a condo here. And it is just like five hours of just cornfields.

[Mike]

Boringness. Horrible.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Mike]

I mean, maybe it's great. If you love it, that's fine.

[Allison]

There's a lot of land here that if something happened to her, she could potentially be in. So the Pitt County Sheriff's Department dispatched helicopters to fly over the area believing that maybe Karen had been abducted. So based on the findings of the car, investigators assumed that maybe she had been carjacked. And this is something that's known to happen on these stretches of rural roads where drivers are isolated and without a lot of passing cars that could see something suspicious happening. So oftentimes what will happen Is a car will flash its lights at a driver signaling that they need help. And then this kind driver stops to see what they could do to help this. This other person out. And then they're lured into this offender's trap.

[Mike]

That's the worst, man, when they use it as like someone taking advantage of people being nice.

[Allison]

Well, something I had seen recently, and I've heard this was if you see something concerning in the middle of the road, don't stop your car, because somebody could put it there in order to get you to do such a thing. Like they mentioned a baby stroller or something like that.

[Mike]

Something that clearly shouldn't be there. And like, if you really were in trouble, would you leave a baby stroller in the middle of the street?

[Allison]

Right. And of course, when you're a concerned person and you're like, oh my gosh, what if there's a baby in that stroller? I'm gonna stop and get out of my car. And then all of a sudden you've got these people, like, trying to do whatever they want with you.

[Mike]

So if you see a baby stroller, just run it over. Just run it right now.

[Allison]

That's not at all what I'm.

[Mike]

Go around it. Go around it.

[Allison]

So since the car had been left in a way that obviously drew attention to it, with the driver's side door open and the headlights on, Investigators were questioning if maybe someone other than Karen had left it in this location. Maybe they staged it here to draw attention to it. So authorities had also considered other possibilities, including the fact that maybe Karen had willingly abandoned the car herself. However, she had been in the process of pursuing a modeling career. She had actually just received an agency contract for a three day job in, excuse me, working with Paris world international. They were apparently based out of Savannah, Georgia. I think whatever work she was going to do with them was going to be in the Atlanta area. So on the very day that she vanished, she signed and returned the contract. And since she was super excited about this upcoming job, Paired with the fact that she just generally wasn't, someone that would have just walked away from her son without communicating anything to anyone, Made this scenario very, very unlikely. And her parents were telling investigators because of course they want to understand what kind of a person Karen was, Was that she aspired to grow her modeling career into a full time job. And she did hope to one day leave Illinois and take Colton with her. But they said she would have never, ever left him without any kind of communication. So it was also doubtful that if, say, she did want to just run off and pursue her modeling career, Would she have randomly stopped david's car along the road, Open the door, and just walked away, Leaving her purse and ID behind? No, she would not have done that. So as the next two days went by without word from karen, Hope that she was going to safely return started to dwindle. So david, who made a media appeal for her safe return, Was obviously considered a suspect by investigators because he was one of the last known people to have spoken with her. He was also dating her, and they were going to eventually meet up that night.

[Mike]

It was his car. He knew that where she was driving to.

[Allison]

So that just makes sense. So as they began making a list of those who were closest to karen, all of a sudden, they got a call that the dismembered remains of a young woman had been found two days after she vanished on Sunday, September 29, 1996. So that afternoon, a man named tracy seabaugh and his wife sherry had been walking along the shore of lake shelbyville. Excuse me, near finley marina, and they spotted a gray garbage bag that was just kind of laying amongst the shallow water, and they were often out and about in the waterways. So tracy was in the habit of picking up trash that was left behind by visitors, you know, and that's a nice thing to do. You see trash and litter, Pick it up and put it in the nearest garbage can.

[Mike]

Yeah, very nice.

[Allison]

So that's what he was going to do. So he was reaching down to pick this bag up, and he immediately stopped in his tracks, and he felt the object inside. He could feel the outline of it, and he thought it could potentially be a human head. So without doing anything further, without opening the bag.

[Mike]

Yeah. You're like, okay, this is something bad. I do want to call somebody, of course.

[Allison]

I mean, not to mention that this is so disturbing, and it's something you don't want to see. You also don't want to destroy evidence. So he contacted the police right away, and when deputy jeff thomas arrived, he cut through the first layer of the bag and found a second gray garbage bag inside that had been sealed with duct tape. So as he sliced through the second layer, he was horrified. He saw blonde hair that was draped over a human ear. So over the next few days, Authorities continued to search the entire lake, and they recovered 10 separate bags, many of which had floated ashore, and each bag had been tightly wrapped. Some of them were double bagged, and many contained a heavy item inside that was clearly meant to weigh it down. However, as the body began to decompose, the bags were then filled with gases that caused them to ultimately resurface. So obviously, authorities know that Karen Slover is missing, and it's likely the victim is Karen. But they had to wait until dental records confirmed that this was correct. And that did happen.

[Mike]

The right thing to do.

[Allison]

So Karen's remains were transported to Memorial Medical center in Springfield, Illinois, for an autopsy. And this autopsy determined that she had been shot. Excuse me, seven times in the head.

[Mike]

Wow, that is terrible.

[Allison]

I mean, that is.

[Mike]

That's overkill over is what that is. Yeah.

[Allison]

Yes. Nobody needs to be shot seven times in the head if you're trying to kill them.

[Mike]

Have we heard about this ex husband yet?

[Allison]

We're gonna talk about him.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Allison]

So she had been shot six times to the left side of the forehead and once to the back of the head at point blank range with a.22 caliber gun. So because she had been shot so many times, clearly this was overkill. The killer had likely been very angry and likely shot her until the gun simply ran out of bullets. So there was also this unusual finding that I'll tell you, they really couldn't explain how or why, but there was a large amount of sand, rocks, and gravel found inside Karen's vagina and anus. When the medical examiner did an autopsy of her torso, that was found, and it appeared to have been placed there because obviously her remains, and I don't mean to be crass or too graphic, but they were bagged and put in the lake. So it's not like waves and debris from the lake, you know, got these items there. So they couldn't explain that. Investigators also found a drop of blood on the Finlay Bridge that ran over Lake Shelbyville, where her remains had been found.

[Mike]

Oh, good investigating.

[Allison]

Yeah. And the blood actually was a match to Karen. And they also found a fingerprint that was lifted only inches away. So this is likely the spot where the bags had been thrown over the bridge and dumped into the water. So investigators wondered if maybe a serial killer had been just randomly out on the hunt for a victim and just happened to come upon Karen because she was this young girl out driving on a rural stretch of road. Is that possible? Sure.

[Mike]

Yeah, let's. That's possible. But let's rule out everybody super close to her first.

[Allison]

So they wondered maybe this crazy person had abducted, murdered, and then dismembered her and then disposed of her remains within the lake that was about 40 miles away from where David's car had been found.

[Mike]

Like all these stories that we've told, the Serial killer is not usually the first one. Like, are these cops that are thinking this?

[Allison]

You know, they're trying to think of every possible scenario. And there are serial killers. We have told many of their stories.

[Mike]

Absolutely.

[Allison]

And they have randomly killed young women like Karen.

[Mike]

Yeah, but 90 of our stories is somebody close.

[Allison]

Yes. So, however, Detective Michael Beck believed that this wasn't the case and that Karen had likely known her killer. He felt that whoever killed her then drove David's car in another direction to divert the search away from Lake Shelbyville. They were probably hoping, obviously, with the large, heavy things that were found in the bags, that Karen's remains would never resurface and she would never be found.

[Mike]

Honestly, probably a good move if you're trying not to get caught.

[Allison]

So the staging of the crime and this dismemberment of Karen's body made it less likely to be a random attack, because I don't think a serial killer would have done that.

[Mike]

I mean, depends on the serial killer.

[Allison]

Sure. And what their MO is. So an eight member task force was assembled that consisted of representatives from five area agencies. They began combing over Karen's background. They wanted to know what her life looked like, who did she spend time with, who did she know? So they listened to rumors about a messy divorce, that she'd gone through an angry ex boyfriend, as well as this creepy newspaper customer who had been acting strangely. So there were some options there of people that were close to Karen that could potentially be involved.

[Mike]

It's kind of like watching an episode of CSI or something. It's just like, okay, well, these are three suspects. Let's get.

[Allison]

Yeah. So according to investigators, although David had been at the rehearsal dinner and then the rehearsal itself on that Friday night, there was a 45 minute gap of time that his whereabouts couldn't be accounted for between the two events. So investigators were also aware that he did have a criminal record and it was kind of concerning. I mean, when I say kind of concerning, it was concerning what kind of stuff?

[Mike]

I'm sure.

[Allison]

So one of the things was including impersonating a police officer, which. Which in and of itself is kind of strange. Have you ever impersonated being a police officer? Because I haven't.

[Mike]

I haven't been caught at it. No.

[Allison]

Okay. Because I've never seen, like, a badge or a uniform or anything.

[Mike]

That's part of the whole game.

[Allison]

So the. The thing that I'm talking about that's very concerning, though, is he had broken into his estranged wife's apartment five years earlier in 1991. And during this incident, it's not a good look. No good look. It's not at all. And it was violence. He was armed with a.22 caliber handgun, and that's what was used to kill Karen.

[Mike]

Okay, so we're talking about David right now. The current.

[Allison]

We're talking about the boyfriend who lent Karen the car, David Swan.

[Mike]

So he has these on. This is a bad, bad look. I mean, if I'm a cop, I'm like, this is 90% right.

[Allison]

So of course you're hearing all of this. And then you have to see, okay, where were you, David, when this happened?

[Mike]

And it has an open window.

[Allison]

So he breaks into his ex wife's apartment or wherever she was living with this.22 caliber handgun and he struck her four to five times. He also threatened to kill her while holding a gun against her head.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. If my daughter ever dates somebody who's been responsible for something like this, I'm going to be very upset.

[Allison]

So according to court records, David pleaded guilty to aggravated battery and he was sentenced to probation in regards to this case. Probation. He broke into his ex wife's home, struck her four to five times, held a gun against her head and told her to she was going to die.

[Mike]

Like pistol whipping. That said, should be jail time. What do you think? Five years minimum.

[Allison]

I mean, that's very concerning.

[Mike]

It's a very violent individual.

[Allison]

That woman probably thought she was going to die that night.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's lucky she didn't.

[Allison]

So although he seemed very concerned when Karen went missing, investigators knew he could just be putting on an act.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So when authorities came to David's house with a search warrant about a week after Karen vanished, he just voluntarily allowed them to come inside. He's like, do whatever you need to do. So obviously, had he murdered and or dismembered her at that location, they would have expected to find blood evidence to prove this. They did not. So after four hours of interrogation, and why it took four hours, I don't know. He suddenly mentioned that, oh, that 45 minute gap of time between the dinner and the rehearsal. Oh, I stopped at an ATM and police verified this. They clearly saw his car at this atm.

[Mike]

I don't know if it's because we're a true crime people or not, but like, this is the thing you bring up. It's like you try to think, can anything prove that I was not there?

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

You know, like whether it's a gas station or an ATM or whatever, if

[Allison]

you had a stop and poop, say it right?

[Mike]

And or anything like you're cheating on somebody. Like that's the spot. Okay. Yeah, unfortunately. Oh, man. That's. What an idiot.

[Allison]

But regardless, this did clear him because it was enough to say he was elsewhere at the time that Karen was m. Murdered. He was no longer a suspect in this case. Case.

[Mike]

And really quick. I normally am very respectful people, but guys that pistol whip their girlfriends, I can't.

[Allison]

I understand that. So Karen had met. Now we're gonna wrap around here to her ex husband, Michael Slover Jr. While they were attending the same community college. So they were married in 1993 when she was three months pregnant. So it sounds like she got pregnant and that kind of pushed them quicker.

[Mike]

Shotgun wedding.

[Allison]

Getting a shotgun wedding. And then they went. Ended up divorcing in April of 1996. So they hadn't been divorced for very long at time of this case in September of 1996. So after their relationship became contentious, they parted ways. So detectives Learned that Michael Jr. Did also have a criminal record. This included drug possession, gun possession, and burglary. He also solicited bribes from shoplifters where he was working as a security guard in exchange for them not. Or him, excuse me, not turning them in.

[Mike]

That's really interesting because security guards aren't paid very much and they're responsible for thousands of dollars of merchandise. So that's something that can definitely happen. And I mean, yeah, it's. It's a. It's a problem.

[Allison]

So he was caught in this, and for this charge, he pleaded guilty and received probation. So Karen's friends later testified that he had been physically abusive during their marriage. And according to the divorce agreement, Karen was Colton's primary custodian. And Michael had alternate weekends with her son. And his mother, Jeanette would continue to watch Colton during the week until he started school, when he went to kindergarten. And he was cared for at school because they were both working. She was going to serve basically as his babysitter. So Karen's parents were telling investigators that their daughter was not happy with this situation of Michael's parents watching her son each weekday. But, you know, she's struggling with finances, and it sounds like they're watching Colton for free. And anyone who has paid for their children to go to daycare like we have, it's like, it's friggin expensive.

[Mike]

It's crazy.

[Allison]

At one point in time, I think we were spending 400 plus a week for two of our kids.

[Mike]

A week? A week. Not per month. A week.

[Allison]

And that's in Florida. And I will tell you Our friends in Illinois were paying close to double that.

[Mike]

Yeah. And that was 10 years ago. Like this, it's only gone up. And I'm sure there's people out there like, yeah, well, I do this. Like, I, I'm so sorry. It sucks.

[Allison]

It's, it's very, very expensive. So she's got this solution. He's with the grandparents and it's, it's free. So for the time being, that's what was happening.

[Mike]

Like they temporarily make it work and figure something out later.

[Allison]

So some reports indicate that Janette's relationship with her grandson was highly inappropriate because she viewed him as her own child. And we all think about that monster in law type of scenario. It's like, listen lady, you raised your child. This is my son, it's not yours.

[Mike]

And you know, that seems to happen a lot with boys. Like grandmas just love their grandsons. Like it's a, it's, it's a thing because mothers love their boys because they're kind of like the secondary husband, you know. Like you have this like, I don't want to say romantic, but it's like you love your son so much because you like, you want them to be everything they can be, you know, and it's not like obviously anything more than just loving them, you know, so. But then once your son has grown up and then they have a grandchild, a grandson, that's your new son. And like mentally you put everything into of that kid.

[Allison]

There's that one saying, and I know I'm going to botch it up. It's like daughter has a mother for life, but a son has a mother until he has a wife or something like that. So oftentimes mother in laws look at their son's wives as competition like us,

[Mike]

like you, you my mom or my. For only my mom's reason. Like she, she didn't like, like you until you had one, a kid and her grandson. So it was like once you had a grandson, she's like, oh, you are okay in my book. She didn't say that. Outwardly it just like it was something there.

[Allison]

Yeah. And Mike's mom and I were super, super close. She my mom, so. But she really was a little cold to me until we did have a son.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So I will tell you though that it was inappropriate that whether or not this is true, I can't say for sure. But some have said that she even attempted to breastfeed him. Oh, okay. Well, if you didn't just have a baby, your body's not producing milk.

[Mike]

Okay, I've heard if you suck, suck enough.

[Allison]

What they say, like it, you can, can actually trick your body into starting to produce milk if you continue to have nipple stimulation. And how this.

[Mike]

I got nipples. Can you, can you milk me, Focker? So that was F O C K E R Focker from Meet the Parents Gaylord. You can't just throw that out there and not give the what if you've

[Allison]

seen Meet the Parents, Robert De Niro says, I've got nipples. Can you milk me, Focker? So you know, whether or not that's true, it, if it is true, that's really concerning. So when Karen would pick Colton up from the slovers, she would sometimes have to pry him away from Jeanette. And according to an ex boyfriend, Jeanette had told her grandson, one day you'll be all mine. It's like, lady, you raised your children. She had a son and a daughter.

[Mike]

Creepy as hell.

[Allison]

Now this is Karen's child, okay? It's not yours. Now give me back my son. All right, lunatic. So in the meantime, the newspaper where Karen worked offered a ten thousand dollar reward for any information that could lead to an arrest. While police were continuing to focus on potential suspects, in addition to David and Michael Slover Jr. They also spoke with her two ex boyfriends, Brian Maxley and Dale Lucas. But once they established that they had clear cut alibis that could be proven, they were cleared from suspects in the case. So within days of Karen's murder, investigators also started receiving tips about three other men. Timothy Roach, Joshua White and another man that was not named. He was either JF or JS and they accused these three men of being responsible for murdering Karen. And apparently the tips included details that were consistent with a gruesome way that she was killed.

[Mike]

I'm always curious, like, even if they're not, like, especially if they're not responsible, how they get these details, that's the thing.

[Allison]

And you know, you got to wonder like, did something get leaked in the media, you know? So on the same day that her body was found, this is September 29th, Timothy Roach and Joshua White were involved in this incident that involved a stolen car. And they apparently fled from police and actually ran the officer over, causing him serious bodily harm. So the car they drove, as well as the hotel that they were staying in over the weekend of Karen's murder was searched. There was nothing found in those two places compared to the evidence that was a match. So because of that, they couldn't tie these people to Karen's murder. So Karen's body had likely been dismembered with a power saw and then wrapped in plastic bags. And you know, it's like I'm talking about this human being, this 23 year old girl who was working hard to support herself and her son. She had a three year old little boy. She had parents who loved her. And I don't want you to think that I'm saying this, you know, carelessly or without care for this girl because this is horrible, Horrible things that happened to her.

[Mike]

Yeah, you're doing the right thing. Like in the news, it's such small little clippets. But you know, fortunately we can talk about these things over an extended period of time. And it's not just like, oh, some girls was buzz saw. Like that's absolutely heartbreakingly horrible.

[Allison]

This is a person that existed and she, she, she was loved and she lived a life. And someone shot her seven times in the head and used a freaking power saw and then threw her body parts into a lake like she was a piece of trash.

[Mike]

Like, what kind of sick, sick mfer can do that to the, like, mother

[Allison]

of their child in a garbage bag? Like that's what we do to garbage, not people. So I just want you to know that I am not taking this lightly. So although the bags were free from fingerprints having been potentially washed away in the lake, they had been tape closed with duct tape. So investigators found a number of hair strands that were attached to the tape that was determined to be not from a human, but from a dog. So there was also material found on the body parts of Karen that indicated that she had been killed in an area with both tall grass and cinders. And that's important because it can paint a picture of where this happened. So after David's car was towed to a police garage, cinders were also found inside that could potentially point to where she had been killed.

[Mike]

So, dumb question. What are cinders?

[Allison]

Cinders are, you know, you could think of like cement or cinder blocks that have been crushed up. Yes. So picture like little cement blocks.

[Mike]

I'm almost thinking like a path that has like this stuff, like poured over it right now, that grainy material.

[Allison]

So land owners along i72 were asked to look at their property for signs of foul play. Did you see anything suspicious? Something that could potentially look like blood. But investigators felt it was more likely that the killer had shot and dismembered Karen either on their own property or the property of someone they knew and maybe they weren't there. So investigators from three counties drove all over a 450 square mile park plots of land in hopes of finding blood evidence that would point to a crime scene. Because we know that this would have been very bloody. My name is Mackenzie and I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a non verbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she, she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who are really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe. So since some of the body parts remained missing, divers were continuing to search the lake. And while they were searching for other missing parts of Karen's body, they were also searching for the murder weapon, the gun. Thinking maybe the killer had also thrown it over the bridge when they had done so with these bags. But it's, you know, just like the saw that was used to dismember her body. This gun has also never been found. So it wasn't long before investigators hit a dead end as no additional suspects or evidence was coming to light. In March of 1980, or excuse me, 1998, this is a year and a half after Karen was murdered. The body of another woman, this is a 63 year old woman, was found floating in Lake Decatur. And the car, her car had been moved across town. So in that way they were similar cases. So it did naturally make some people question if maybe the same person could be involved, maybe it was a serial killer, maybe it was completely unrelated to Karen. So however, because the woman was much older, she had not been dismembered. They did not. Authorities didn't believe that the two cases were connected. So the following year, now in 1999, Michael's sister, Mary Slover, adopted Colton and apparently moved with him and Michael to Tennessee. And it sounds like Karen's parents weren't kept in the know that all of this was happening.

[Mike]

That's so crazy. Like you want to keep the mother as kind of the headquarters Right.

[Allison]

So it wasn't until January of 2000, over three years after Karen's death, when an arrest was finally made. So back in 1998, investigators noticed broken concrete at Michael Seniors. This is Michael Jr's father, the, you know, ex father in law. This used car lot that he had in Mount Zion, it's called Miracle Motors, and it resembled the concrete blocks that had been used inside the bags to weigh down Karen's remains, as well as the cinders that were found in David's car.

[Mike]

So this isn't like one of the first places I checked.

[Allison]

Like, I mean you would think the

[Mike]

hell's wrong with the. I don't know.

[Allison]

Apparently not. So as a lot was searched, Richard Monroe, a forensic geologist, was brought in to examine the concrete to determine do any of the edges match what was found with the body. He was able to determine that pieces that were recovered from the bags as well as from David's car were consistent in several ways with the concrete found at the lot of Miracle Motors. So they were not consistent with those found at the lake or at the bridge where Karen's body was discovered. So it didn't come from that location. So investigators noted that Michael Sr. Had circled some cars around a particular area of his lot at Miracle Motors and he could have intentionally done so in order to conceal the blood evidence. The dismemberment process.

[Mike]

This is years later.

[Allison]

Yeah, it was 1998 that they started to really look and obviously two years later, so an area was marked off within this lot that was a more intensive excavation was going to happen. So this crew was Planning to remove 4 inches of topsoil and they were going to sift through 5,000square foot lot, grid by grid. Then a snowstorm blows through during this process. So they brought in snow melting equipment. They set up tents to protect the sifting process and they continued on. So the team collected 65 gallon buckets of dirt. So it then took them six months to clearly and carefully process. They were like sifting through buckets and buckets and buckets.

[Mike]

When you say quantity. 65 gallon buckets or 65 buckets.

[Allison]

66,05 gallon buckets.

[Mike]

Okay. That's fairly small.

[Allison]

Carefully, carefully sifting through so that if they find something, they're not going to miss it. So through their search, they did come across some things. A button that was marked with authentic Paris Sport Club jeans as well as rivets that belong to the jeans.

[Mike]

Okay. Paris Sport Club. That the place that she belonged to. It stood out.

[Allison]

No, not the same as the modeling agency. This is an entirely different brand of jeans.

[Mike]

Got it, got it.

[Allison]

So the button that you would, you know, close your pants with, it said authentic Paris Sport Club. And then, you know, the rivets that are on jeans like these right here on the side of my jeans. Those were also found and they seem to match the jeans that Karen was incidentally wearing when she vanished. They also recovered two cloth covered buttons from a white shirt. And when analyzed under a microscope, experts determined that the fabric that was wrapped around the buttons match the fabric from the shirt that Karen had been wearing when she disappeared.

[Mike]

Wow. That's pretty deep investigation. That's good.

[Allison]

So with this evidence, a search warrant was obtained for Michael's parents home. And Jeanette Slover was said to be very, very combative as officers arrived. It's like, lady, we have a legal document and we're coming in here very competitive.

[Mike]

Is good news for us. It means you're hiding something, you piece of garbage.

[Allison]

So she allegedly threatened to hit a detective. And here's my thing, all right? Picture the situation. Your parents, your son has a child, he gets divorced and you're watching their. Your grandson. And you have zero to do with this crime. Would you be combative if officers showed up? I mean, no.

[Mike]

And it's.

[Allison]

I wouldn't.

[Mike]

Especially if I was trying to milk myself so I can create lactation in my breasts at 60 years old.

[Allison]

Okay, Jeanette, hook yourself back up to the pump.

[Mike]

Okay? Go sit in the corner and pump yourself.

[Allison]

But I wouldn't be combative if I had zero to do with. With what happened to my ex daughter in law.

[Mike]

Right. So especially there's like legal documents that we have a search warrant. You can't do anything about it.

[Allison]

We're coming in regardless. And like I said, she even threatened to hit a detective.

[Mike]

Oh, I hope. Wish she would have.

[Allison]

So police found a collection of firearms at the house, while Michael Slover senior admitted that one of them was missing. And it was a.22 caliber gun. But as much as he knew the details of all of his guns, he recalled very, very little about this particular gun.

[Mike]

So interesting.

[Allison]

So after Karen's murder, Michael Jr. Provided a three page handwritten account about his whereabouts for that day. Obviously they were looking at everyone close to Karen. He was at the top of the list alongside David. He had provided an alibi, hence he was cleared from the case. So he started his security job at a local Cub Foods grocery store. Remember Cub Foods?

[Mike]

I do, yeah.

[Allison]

So he started at about 12:30pm and then went to a Job at a Marshall as a martial arts instructor. And then he ended his day at 2am after working a third job as a bouncer at a local bar called Ronnie's. So when detectives are re reviewing his alibi in 2000, they found it to be suspiciously detailed, oddly so. So he was able to recall every item that he ate at a restaurant that evening, who he visited with, exactly how much he paid for his dinner. He also called Karen the day before she left work. And according to a co worker who has was able to overhear this conversation, they said that her mood immediately shifted when before that phone rang, she was excited about her upcoming modeling job. And when she hung that phone up, she was pissed off.

[Mike]

So something bad happened, Some kind of bad conversation.

[Allison]

It wasn't a good conversation. So her co worker overheard her telling the caller, I am going to leave the state and I am going to take. Take, you know, my. Our son with me.

[Mike]

Ah, now we have it.

[Allison]

So after she hung up, she turned to her co worker and explained that was Michael Jr.

[Mike]

Motive is what I'm talking about.

[Allison]

So Michael Senior and Jeanette Slover were high school sweethearts. They met in St. Louis. They got married right after high school in 1966. So at the time of Karen's murder, they had been married for 30 years. So after they settled in Mount Zion, this is a tiny village south of Decatur. Janet, Matt stayed home to raise their two children while Michael worked at Clinton power plant. He also eventually bought Miracle Motors. This is this used car lot on Route 121, just a few minutes from their house. So although they had provided interviews with investigators, of course, after Karen's death, they discussed their whereabouts on that Friday night. But it was one of those alibis that only the two of them could corroborate. You know, independently, you couldn't prove it because you can't say, oh, yeah, I was home watching tv. How can you prove that you were home watching tv? So Michael Senior indicated that he'd gone to his used car lot, you know, after work, and then he came back home to watch TV. So they claim to have last seen Karen at 5:45pm one day before she vanished. They had met up at a McDonald's to exchange Colton, Although Karen normally picked Colton up sometime between 5 to 6pm Like I said, Jeanette said it wasn't unusual for her to be running late. So investigators began to believe that after Karen threatened to leave the state and to take Colton with her, Michael Jr. Called his parents and filled them in on their conversation. And feeling Scared that they would no longer be able to see their grandson, they concocted a plan to kill Karen when she arrived on Friday evening to pick her son up.

[Mike]

Wow. Good human being.

[Allison]

This is just their theory.

[Mike]

Okay, got it.

[Allison]

Based on the evidence that they found.

[Mike]

That's what I was gonna say. How do we know this?

[Allison]

Right. So, while the Slover home was being searched, Detective Mike Mannix noticed that they had two dogs. And of course, he immediately thought about the dog hair that was found attached to the duct tape on the bags that held Karen's remains.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, no kidding. Like, where's this? Five years ago or whatever?

[Allison]

2,000. So it was about four years later. So when they took samples of the fur, it just so happened that a detective in another state was examining evidence from a dog in a murder case. This was actually the first criminal case using DNA analysis of a dog. I looked it up, and now it's way more routine to do so. Which. Why wouldn't it be?

[Mike]

Yeah, makes complete sense.

[Allison]

So, Detective Kevin o' Keefe was in the process of investigating the murders of a couple all across the country in Seattle. So who? This. This couple was killed and so was their dog. So, after identifying two suspects, he believed that the blood on the clothing of one of these guys had come from the dog. So he contacted Dr. Joy Halverson. She's a veterinarian geneticist who verified pedigrees for the American Kennel Club. So, for this Seattle case, she agreed to run the DNA test, and it was definitively a match to the blood seen on one of the suspects. The analysis ended up being thrown out during the appeals process. But regardless, both suspects were convicted in that crime. So Dr. Halverson is now agreeing to test the samples taken from the Slover's dogs in comparison to what was found attached to the duct tape that held Karen's head specifically. So only one of the strands had enough DNA for analysis, but it proved to be a match. Meaning at least one of the dogs from the Slovers home was the source of the dog hair that was found attached to that tape.

[Mike]

All right, good.

[Allison]

So the task force was convinced that the Slovers were responsible for Karen's murder, but with three spots. Excuse me. Three suspects. Between Michael Senior, Jeanette and Michael Junior. It was unclear who actually pulled the trigger. So they also had no murder weapon. They didn't have the possible chainsaw that was utilized in the dismemberment. However, they did feel confident that they could prove that a crime took place at Miracle Motors, and that between the Murder, dismemberment and the staging of the car. At some point all three of them had played a role in one or all of those events.

[Mike]

And so this way if they can bring the case together enough, they can start saying to Karen and Michael Senior

[Allison]

and not Karen but, or I'm sorry

[Mike]

Jeanette and Michael Sr. Start saying, hey, all three of you are going to jail or if one of you takes the whole thing then just one of you will go. So it's up to you if you want to be a good parent. If it was your son, you can take it all or whatever, you know, or let your son take it.

[Allison]

Right? So for two days prosecutors presented their evidence to a grand jury which resulted in the indictment and arrest of a then 29 year old Michael Slover Jr. As well as both of his parents, 53 year old Michael Senior and 52 year old Jeanette. This happened on 1-27-2000. So they were each charged with first degree murder while both Michaels were also charged with attempting to conceal a crime. So Michael Senior and Jeanette were arrested at their home. This was at the time of their arrest they were surrounded by a SWAT team and they then transported them to the Macon county jail. While Michael Jr. Was arrested in Tennessee, he had moved there with his, his sister and Colton. So the prosecution believed that the murder involved all three suspects. So they know that Michael Jr. Spent that Friday establishing a clear alibi because he worked at three different jobs that day, he said, where he ate his meals, etc and meanwhile his parents handled the murder and the staging of the car. The dismemberment could have involved any or all three of them. Macon County State's Attorney Larry Fitcher indicated that the evidence against the Slovers was mountainous, but he wouldn't confirmed if they plan to seek the death penalty, they

[Mike]

wouldn't be able to get it.

[Allison]

Yeah. So the trial began in April of 2002. This is nearly five and a half years after Karen had been murdered. The request to move the trial out of Macon county had been denied by John or excuse me, Judge John K. Grenius. This there was great difficulty in selecting a jury as when a sociologist surveyed 181 potential eligible jurors. More than 91% of them indicated that they had read and or heard about this case in the media.

[Mike]

Such a small county too, right?

[Allison]

It's small. So the prosecution presented evidence to suggest that Karen had been planning to leave Illinois with Colton to start this new life following her divorce from Michael Jr. And fearful of losing contact in custody Of Colton, the slovers lured current Karen. Excuse me. Out to the car lots because obviously, the day before, they exchanged Colton at McDonald's, but this time around, they're suggesting they're like, come meet us at the car lot, and we'll give you colton there. And then this is when they shot her, dismembered her there. This is what caused the buttons from her blouse as well as her jeans to fall to the ground. So they utilized cement and cinders from their lot to weigh the bags down that contained her remains. And when they taped them closed, Their dog's hair attached to it before they dumped the bags 40 miles away in lake shelbyville and then staged David's car along the highway. So prosecutors claim that there was evidence that the slovers had been trying to prevent Karen's parents, Larry and Donna hearn, from having any visitation rights from Colton after her murder, which, to me, is outrageous. So after Karen's death, Mary slover had adopted him and moved him out to Tennessee with Michael Jr. Without even notifying them, which just goes to show should be illegal, that I couldn't even believe that happened. So defense attorney vigneri, who was representing them, they. He. He really wanted to make a point to. To find some kind of button expert. So he was scouring the Internet for button collectors. And the point of this was that he hoped to find someone that would testify that the button found in the lot of miracle motors that was believed to be a match to the clothing that Karen was wearing when she was murdered was very common and couldn't be definitively tied to her case. So the prosecution was claiming that only 10,000 pairs of the jeans with this particular button had been manufactured, While he was claiming that over 200, 000 had been made. I mean, well, which is it, though?

[Mike]

Yeah, 10,000 is still a lot.

[Allison]

I mean, yeah, but we're in central Illinois here. Like, where were they distributed? Who knows?

[Mike]

All over the America. Yeah.

[Allison]

So although Michael Jr had been working on the Friday of Karen's murder, he called his parents 12 times that weekend. And investigators were certain that he was involved in planning of the murder as well as the COVID up. They theorized that his sister Mary had maybe watched Colton while her parents were disposing of Karen's remains.

[Mike]

That's what I was wondering. Who's watching the kid, Right?

[Allison]

So co workers of Mary slover testified that she had made statements that she wished Karen would die because she felt like she was this unfit mother. According to the pentagraph, she even admitted to a grand jury that she hoped at the skin cancer would eat Karen's face off. Like, that's sick.

[Mike]

Yeah. And this is Mary or Jeanette saying, this is Mary. Okay.

[Allison]

So during their marriage, Michael Jr had also allegedly threatened that if she ever left him, she would never see their son ever again.

[Mike]

What a horrible, horrible relationship.

[Allison]

So Michael slover senior had been able to describe his collection of firearms in great detail minus this.22 caliber handgun that, incidentally, match the type of bullet that was used to kill Karen.

[Mike]

Yeah, I tell you what, I know every single gun. For some reason, that one just doesn't. Doesn't pop into my memory.

[Allison]

So, based on Colton's sessions with a psychiatrist, prosecutors believe that the young boy had been in the building where his mother's body had been dismembered while the dismemberment was happening. I don't know what he said, but that's what they took from it. So although he had been too young to understand what was going on, it had deeply affected him. So meanwhile, defense attorney Joe Vigneri argued that neither of the cinders nor the dog hair could be proven that they were guilty of Karen's murder. He went on to say that no murder weapon had been found, There were no eyewitnesses to any portion of the crime, and no DNA or blood evidence could place Karen in the car. Lots of. They also couldn't find the chainsaw that was believed to dismember her body, Nor could they prove which of the trio was involved in which row roll. So he argued that during the search of miracle motors lot, there were numerous other items of clothing that was found in the whole sifting process. This included a Wrangler jeans label as well as zippers that weren't tied to the case. And because the slovers were in the habit of disposing of garments that were left behind in auction cars, they would burn these items in their trash barrel. He said that the buttons and the rivets could have come from that business, not Karen.

[Mike]

Interesting. That's pretty good argument.

[Allison]

So the fingerprint found on the bridge over lake Shelbyville was determined not to be a match to the slovers, Nor were the two fingerprints found on the interior of the front passenger door or window of David's car. But, of course, they could have been wearing gloves at this point in time. So forensic geologist Richard Monroe testified that the material content of the concrete at the car lot was consistent with what was used to weigh the bags down containing Karen's body parts. He also discussed a piece of concrete at the car Lot that had these trowel marks on them. These are markings that are created during the smoothing of concrete, which were similar to those of the concrete found with her body. So the DNA evidence from their dog that was presented by Dr. Joy Halverson was a first for the state of Illinois and only the fifth in the country.

[Mike]

That might be the most damning thing. I mean, that is absolutely. That's the only thing that connects them to that bag.

[Allison]

So the likelihood that the hair had come from another dog was 1 in 56, 000. While she concluded that it was highly unlikely that the hair had come from any dog other than the one that was owned by the Slovers. So defense attorney Vigneri argued that this evidence was not solid science. There was also the idea that the hair could have gotten onto the duct tape after it was transferred from either Karen or her son, since the Slovers had cared from him or for him. Excuse me. While Karen was at work.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's a little far fetched.

[Allison]

So he also argued that the button from the shirt and the button from her jeans could have been planted in the car lot while it was unsecured in hopes of framing the Slovers.

[Mike]

That's unless you can find, like, we've had a story before where this police, not this one, but that particular police department was known for that in the past. So unless they had evidence of something like that happening before, then, that could be thrown out, too.

[Allison]

However, the prosecution argued that someone trying to frame them would have likely made these items far more obvious because these people had only come upon them after, like, six months of sifting through all of this dirt. So on May 18, 2002, after five weeks of testimony and deliberations, the jury was back with a verdict. And, Mike, what do you think?

[Mike]

Got to be guilty. I mean, I'd be so surprised if they're not guilty.

[Allison]

So they found Michael Senior, Janette and Michael Slover Jr. Guilty of first degree murder.

[Mike]

Hell, yeah.

[Allison]

So on June 28, 2002, Janette Slover was sentenced to 60 years in prison.

[Mike]

Awesome.

[Allison]

While Michael Senior and Michael Junior were given five additional years. So 65. Five total, due to the added charge of concealing a crime. So they all maintain their innocence, while Michael Senior made the statement. I just hope someday the truth comes out and that somehow everyone knows that this had nothing to do with us. So during this time, Colton was nine years old. He was living in Tennessee with his aunt Mary Slover. And however, after the verdict, he was placed into foster care. While proceedings began that October to Determine if she was okay to keep him?

[Mike]

No, because she's gonna br. Wash him. That's. It's so obvious. I mean, maybe as a human being she's okay. Maybe I don't know her, but.

[Allison]

But she also made comments that she wished that Karen was dead and that skin cancer would eat off her face. I've never made wishes like that about anybody.

[Mike]

I mean. Yeah, I don't know.

[Allison]

I. I mean, I've not.

[Mike]

But I mean, to really horrible people, like all these people involved, I would probably wish that. But it's fine.

[Allison]

I try to not wish terrible things on people, especially 23 year old moms who just so happened to divorce from your brother who was allegedly abusing her.

[Mike]

Yeah, for sure. But like murderers and stuff. I wish horrible things to them. For instance.

[Allison]

So in 2003, a Macon county judge ruled that she was an unfit parent because she may have been involved in concealing evidence of Karen's murder. She may have known what her family had done and helped watch Colton while they were doing what they were doing.

[Mike]

Right.

[Allison]

She also hadn't sought out the appropriate counseling for Colton in the aftermath of his mother's brutal murder. And according to that psychiatrist, he was deeply affected. So she also allowed him to have ongoing contact with her family, who were convicted as his mother's killers. She denied any wrongdo. Wrongdoing, and she appealed this decision. And although appeals court determined that there was no evidence to support the accusation that Mary Slover was an unfit parent for Colton, he did remain in the guardianship of Karen's parents. So the Slovers appealed their convictions, arguing prejudicial, pre trial publicity. Did I say that right?

[Mike]

Yep.

[Allison]

Okay. So obviously 91% of the potential jurors were saying that they had heard of this case.

[Mike]

And I'd love to see this 9%. These are probably people with no televisions or radios or anything. Like people talk to each other too. So they must be just like hermits.

[Allison]

Or maybe they're farmers and they're working from sun up to sundown, eating their dinner and going to bed.

[Mike]

Yeah, but not talking to anybody in the process. Never going to a show shop for something like a hey, did you hear about gallon of milk? Right, Whatever.

[Allison]

So there was also the admission of testimony during the trial alleging spousal abuse. But In July of 2005, this was denied. So fast forward now to more than 20 years later. In February of 2024, the Illinois Innocence Project, or the IIP, filed a petition with the Macon county court detailing extensive evidence that supported the Slovers innocence. And this included DNA that could potentially exclude them from being responsible for Karen's murder. So the IIP is alleging that they were convicted using junk science. And they were referring to the buttons, the rivets, the dog hair, DNA, the grass, the cinders, and the concrete. Forensic testing done between 2014 and 2024 apparently revealed three separate DNA profiles, two of which were found on the duct tape to seal the bags closed containing Karen's remains, as well as one on the fingerprints found next to Karen's blood that was located on the Lake Shelbyville Bridge. Apparently two of these profiles are female and one is male. But you could say, did the fingerprint on the bridge just come from someone you know? So they argued that potential material found under Karen's fingernails had never been collected or analyzed.

[Mike]

Very important.

[Allison]

And that the law enforcement mishandled crucial pieces of evidence, including not labeling what body parts were in which bag. An officer also was said to have manly manually turned the key that had been found in the ignition of David's abandoned car, potentially destroying evidence. The IIP requested that the Illinois State Police or ISP submit these DNA profiles into Codex in hopes that maybe they can find a true killer. But they have declined to do so for several years because obviously this was broached in 2024. So they argued potential contamination in the aftermath of the trial, Questioning how the hell was this evidence even stored after the conclusion of the trial?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So in the meantime, Michael Slover Jr. Was released on parole in March of 2024 after serving only 22 years of his 65 year sentence, as crimes committed before 1998 were under the old system with parole eligibility. So by 1998, two years after Karen's murder, Illinois fully implemented what is known as truth and sentencing rules, where murderers have to serve a hundred percent of their sentences. So he missed this by two years. Years. He was able to only serve 22 years of his 65 year sentence. So Michael Slover Senior died at 75 years old in prison on June 24, 2022, even before the IIP picked up this case. And his wife, Jeanette slover died at 77 years old last year on January 8, 2025, before she was able to be paroled. And from what I looked into, because I was like, well, why would, you know, Jeanette have been left in prison and Michael Jr. Paroled when he was given a 65 year sentence. And she was given a 60 year sentence because he had a solid alibi on that Friday. So we know for sure that Michael Jr. Didn't pull the trigger, his parents would have been the ones to do so.

[Mike]

Yeah, I could see that.

[Allison]

So regardless, both parents have died in prison. So on March 13, 2026, this just happened. Judge Rodney Forbes ruled that the three DNA profiles connected to Karen's case are suitable to be submitted to the state Data Index system as well as codis. So they, they are now forced to do so. They've been like, no, it's probably contamination. And again with the bridge, how can you say it wasn't just a person walking over and touching the, the railing of the bridge?

[Mike]

We want the truth.

[Allison]

Right, right. So in 1996, Karen had been a 23 year old woman who was trying to move forward in life. She was raising her son in the aftermath of her divorce. She was trying to make ends meet. And when she left for work on that Friday in September, she was heading out to pick up her son, run some errands, but she never made it. And her life ended in unimaginable violence. And although Michael Slover Jr. Has since been released from prison and his parents have died behind bars, Karen's case is now back in the spotlight, you know, so many years later. This is 30 years now that have passed since she, she died. So DNA connected to her case will be entered into the CODIS data PACE database to determine is there someone else that was responsible for her death rather than the Slovers? And that is the story of the murder of Karen Slover.

[Mike]

Really, really interesting story. I mean there's a possibility is all over the place.

[Allison]

So I was looking at some Reddit opinions. You know, just, I like to hear people's opinions on what do they think. I will tell you that the majority of people posting to Reddit believe that the Slovers are guilty.

[Mike]

Yeah, especially with Michael Junior's like very detailed account of everything he was doing. It was like clear that he wanted to plan that he was not part of it.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

And remember all these things because it's like, you know, that that's it. While it's definitely gets him off the hook, it's also a little damning. And then you got the, the whole dog hair stuff, content, you know, contaminating and all that. I would love to hear instead of 1 in 50000 dogs, like 1 in 50 million dogs, that'd be much better.

[Allison]

Well, and there is also the idea that maybe the dog hairs were attached just incidentally because. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Because Karen would have contact with the Slover. She was picking her son up, she was dropping him off. How often it was happening at their house. House. I don't know. I just saw mention that she had Exchanged Colton at McDonald's the day before her death.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So I don't know how often Karen was in the house, but we know Colton was, and maybe Colton could have come home, especially if they're very shedding dogs like you think of, like a golden retriever. They didn't say what type of dog it was, but some dogs shed a ton, and that could easily transfer hair, like our cat.

[Mike]

You know, we have a very clean house, but our cat loves sleeping on my office chair, and so I always have. Have to check my khakis before I go out for cat hair.

[Allison]

Yeah, but you stood up for a meeting. Mike was wearing, like, these navy blue khakis, and he turned to walk out of the office. I'm like, whoa, buddy, you got to go get that lint roller thing on your. Your bum. Bum.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, really interesting case, and I. I don't disagree with Michael Jr. Being let out. I mean, you know, not that, you know, he deserves it or not. It's hard to say. It's like. It wasn't, like, completely connecting. And like you said, he wasn't. He wasn't the one that pulled the trigger.

[Allison]

Well, regardless, he was. Was paroled. He was going to be rec. Paroled. Easy for me to say. Regardless of the Innocence Project picking this case up. So that had nothing to do. He. He was just paroled after 22 years, again, because Karen's murder was committed in 1996 before the rules changed in 98. So that had nothing to do. So at this point in time, he knows he's free. His parents are deceased. He wants this evidence to come out to potentially clear their name so that he is no longer looked at as, you know, a murderer. So it's not that he's doing it to get out of jail, because that's already happened.

[Mike]

Any word from Colton? Yeah, I'm sure he's. Yeah, that's.

[Allison]

You know, he was only three years old when he lost his mother, poor kid, terribly. And then his. His dad went to jail, and he was living with his Aunt Mary, and then he was ripped out of that house. And, yeah, so very, very sad for Colton, but my gut instinct says, you know, odds are they're guilty because, again, she was shot seven times. It was a lot of anger fueled behind it. Michael Senior's gun was missing. You know, the Paris jeans button in the lot. You could say, well, they got cars and auctions, and, you Know people leave crap behind in their old cars.

[Mike]

Yeah, lots.

[Allison]

And they were potentially burning the clothing and then the button could have fallen out. There was word that Michael Jr. Was, was mowing the grass right after Karen's murder around the parents lot potentially. Because the long grass that was attached, you know, to her body.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Could point to that location.

[Mike]

Sure.

[Allison]

Was he just incidentally mowing the lawn because it was a Saturday?

[Mike]

Who knows? We're all looking for something. You know, it's like it's so many of these, it's. There's just nothing directly tying them. That's what sucks about it, I guess.

[Allison]

The motive, you know, it's like who would have had the motive? Like this grandmother who was trying to breath maybe allegedly breastfeed her grandson.

[Mike]

So weird. And so weird.

[Allison]

Allegedly said you're going to be mine one day. I have a son and I can promise you if he marries a nice person that has a good personality, I'm not going to try to be his wife and be the mother of his child because I was his mother.

[Mike]

Would you try to breastfeed their baby?

[Allison]

No. No, I would not.

[Mike]

I'd be happy to help you.

[Allison]

No, you're not going to help me with the suction and I'm not going to breastfeed a baby. I did that.

[Mike]

Sorry to my father in law for that immun damage.

[Allison]

Been there, done that for 13 plus months with each of our kids.

[Mike]

I did google it really quick and it does turn out that pretty much any woman can start breastfeeding. It just takes a lot of effort and like eight out eight pumps a day, plus like some hormone therapy and stuff. So it's, it's a lot of effort.

[Allison]

But yeah. I mean unless you're adopting a child and you want to breastfeed that baby, I don't see. Well, like what other reason would you have to produce milk?

[Mike]

That's what it is. Usually it's adoptions or something.

[Allison]

Awesome.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Wow.

[Mike]

And not crazy.

[Allison]

And over what course of time? Eight pumpings a day. Over what course of dime. What time would you expect?

[Mike]

Different bodies, different ages, Interesting months. Perhaps I didn't look that far because I wanted to listen to the story.

[Allison]

Well, because if you ever saw a single white female, I think that was the one where she was trying to breastfeed the woman's baby. Yeah, it's like you, you can't do that. No, I think of the office too. When Pam accidentally breastfed the. The neighboring ladies while she was in the hospital and then slid the baby back.

[Mike]

Yes. The Baby's, like, all full, and they're like, oh, he hasn't cried all night.

[Allison]

He's not hungry. Well, because he had off my breast.

[Mike]

That's right. That's right.

[Allison]

So just a really terrible case. But, Mike, I guess my question to you is, what do you think?

[Mike]

I hate cases like this where there's some question. Like, the ones that are most just kind of. They. They get to you the most is where it's like, okay, we got the evidence. We got the DNA. Finally came back match, Boom, we're done. I know there's questions here, and that sucks, but the motive.

[Allison]

Cut and dry.

[Mike]

Yeah, the motive, for sure. And it seem. I mean, you want to paint these people in a certain way, you got to realize that there's a lot of stories out there that are trying on purpose to paint everybody a certain way.

[Allison]

And I can only go with the research I have. I don't know. The slovers. I've never met them.

[Mike]

Maybe they're fine people.

[Allison]

Probably. I don't know.

[Mike]

Probably not.

[Allison]

But, you know, the fact that she was shot seven times in the head, Overkill. That's six more times than it takes to kill a person.

[Mike]

Who do you picture doing it? This is all alleged. This is just, you know, not.

[Allison]

It would, to me, would make sense that Janette would be with Colton if, you know, she was guilty of this murder. I would picture Janette staying with Colton, but then I could see her being the psychotic. Like, you.

[Mike]

Right. Like, who's shooting her seven times. Right.

[Allison]

I can't imagine.

[Mike]

Does Michael Senior have any kind of, like, criminal past at all? Like, that's very.

[Allison]

No. And that was another point of this case was that this couple had been married for 30 years. They were high school sweethearts. They didn't have any violent criminal past.

[Mike]

And it seems like if anybody was turning, Karen would be the one. Like, her brain was turning into. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. Jeanette. I'm sorry. So Jeanette was the one where her brain was turning into, like, don't take my baby from me, and like, something mentally and emotionally was turning in her head and like you said. Yeah. Shooting her repeatedly. If I had to point at somebody, possibly all alleged, like.

[Allison]

Well, I mean, they were found guilty and they died behind bars.

[Mike]

Yeah, but you still.

[Allison]

But the innocent. Actually, the innocence program is only trying to disprove. They are convicted murderers. They are convicted of. We're not allegedly.

[Mike]

No, no.

[Allison]

They were convicted shooting.

[Mike]

The actual shooting is alleged. We don't know for sure who Shot her. We don't know who shot. Shot her. I'm telling you, you can't say this stuff. I've read into it. We're not allowed to say that.

[Allison]

Okay. Well, I picture it being Jeanette's.

[Mike]

Okay. Me. That's what I'm saying too. Like, you can get into trouble.

[Allison]

Now, the dismemberment process, I would picture being Robert Jr. And Senior because we know he had an alibi. Robert Jr. Till 2am he was a bouncer at that bar. Maybe the. That process happened in the middle of the night. Who knows?

[Mike]

And real quick, you know how like, sometimes you think of a joke after a moment happened?

[Allison]

Yes. And you're like, dang.

[Mike]

Yeah. I will say, when we were talking about me being possibly a person that as a policeman, you know, gets convicted for impersonating a policeman, and you were like, well, you don't have any police gear or anything. And I was like, well, we do have the handcuffs that you enjoy.

[Allison]

I, you know, I actually expected you to say something like that.

[Mike]

I'm getting, you know, slower.

[Allison]

I don't know. No, I think I just know you're perverted. Sick brain. Right.

[Mike]

Right after we were done, I'm like, oh, I should have said handcuffs.

[Allison]

We don't. We don't have handcuffs.

[Mike]

And then I wrote it down and I put a star around it. Handcuffs. Mention the handcuffs Allison insists on every so often.

[Allison]

Do they have pink fuzz around the cuffs?

[Mike]

No, you like purple. Remember? They're right there. Do you want to show them?

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

You want to?

[Allison]

Yeah, go. Let's pause. I want you to bring those out. I want you to show the camera.

[Mike]

Maybe next time. Okay.

[Allison]

Because he's gonna have to get on Amazon and be like, purple, fuzzy.

[Mike]

Send them immediately. Oh, that's another thing.

[Allison]

Amazon expedited order.

[Mike]

Yeah, Amazon would take care of us right away. They got us.

[Allison]

Yeah. Okay, so on that note, we thank you guys so much for being here with us. And we are really, really trying to grow our YouTube channel. So if you want to see what our ugly mugs look like, head on over to YouTube. Please subscribe to us.

[Mike]

Click the old subscribe button. Smash that, like button, as the kids say.

[Allison]

Please don't ever say that again. We would so appreciate it. Or if you to head on over to Apple, send us a five star review.

[Mike]

Or Spotify.

[Allison]

Spotify, wherever you're listening. And we just appreciate you. We hope you guys are having a great week. Please stay safe, take care of one another, and until next time, bye. That was off.

[Mike]

Yeah, that was off. Bye. I was so excited to get to it. My bad. My bad. My bad, bro. My bad, bro.

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