Bart & Krista Halderson | The Deadly Cost of Discovering the Truth (Part 2)

Summary

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Crime Weekly: Bart & Krista Halderson | The Deadly Cost of Discovering the Truth (Part 2)

Podcast Hosts: Stephanie Harlowe & Derrick Levasseur
Air Date: July 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

In Part 2 of their deep dive into the Bart and Krista Halderson case, Stephanie and Derrick focus on building a psychological profile of Chandler Halderson, the couple’s son and the prime suspect in their disappearance and murder. This episode traces Chandler’s personal relationships, exposes his elaborate lies, and uncovers how his deception ultimately led to tragedy. Listeners gain insight into his manipulative behaviors, the unraveling of his secret life, and the pivotal moments leading up to his parents’ murders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Chandler Halderson's Background and Personal Life

[01:17–06:18]

• Chandler’s early life: Described as an average, unremarkable teen with no red flags, passing grades, and cooperative demeanor.
  • Stephanie: “Utterly average, unremarkable, but zero red flags.” [01:26]
• Post-high school: Lived with parents after graduation and attended Madison Area Technical College, briefly living with friend Alex (“Chaz”) Gravett.
• Social circle’s perspective:
  • Alex said Chandler was attractive, playful, but also a "pathological liar" and emotionally distant.
  • Chandler maintained relationships with multiple women, using guilt and manipulation.

Patterns of Manipulation and Deception

[06:18–19:39]

• Manipulating girlfriends: Routinely used his parents as scapegoats, spinning tales of overbearing control to explain his absences or deflect guilt for cheating.
  • Stephanie: "He uses his parents as scapegoats...painting them as villains when in reality it was him." [06:14]
  • Example: Claimed mother faked a stroke to keep him from leaving—actually, he was with another girlfriend.
• Creating rifts: Convinced new girlfriends their friends (his exes) were “manipulative” to prevent them from sharing information.
  • Stephanie: “He doesn’t want anybody comparing notes.” [09:23]
• Lying as lifestyle: Multiple partners report him as a compulsive and pathological liar. Cat (latest girlfriend) insisted Chandler was a great guy, describing herself as emotional “enough for both of us.”
  • Cat/Catherine: “I cry enough for both of us…My boyfriend’s parents are missing...” [28:27–28:39]
• Absence of emotion: Chandler was described as “cold-hearted,” unable to genuinely smile, never seeming truly happy.
  • Stephanie: “He really didn’t know how to smile…He had a hard time smiling.” [10:24]

Early Signs of Antisocial Behavior

[16:09–20:02; 18:25–19:29]

• Admission of being a psychopath/sociopath: Told Dakota he was “diagnosed as a psychopath” and told Alex he might be a sociopath.
  • Stephanie: “He probably thinks there's something wrong with him but he doesn't know exactly what it is, and he doesn't really care.” [27:15]
• Theft from friends: Alex recounted cash being stolen from his apartment; Chandler acted suspicious and evasive.
  • Stephanie: “He told Alex, ‘If you look inside the safe, don't judge me for what you find.’” [16:13]
• Manipulation for emotional cover: Chandler would go to great lengths (like photoshopping evidence, asking friends to roleplay via “voice changer”) to maintain his lies.

The Elaborate Web of Academic and Professional Lies

[37:19–68:39]

• Fake college enrollment: Claimed attendance at Madison Area Technical College, forged transcripts and certificates, emailed with “staff” who were actually false identities he created (emails tracked to his IP, using his phone details).
  • Stephanie: “None of these are real people. The email addresses were all created by Chandler.” [93:17]
• Fictitious jobs: Told family and friends he worked for American Family Insurance and was being recruited by SpaceX—neither true.
• Scuba diving deception: Fabricated a role as a search and rescue diver for Madison police, complete with made-up stories of missions and “found" items.
  • Paige Valenta (actual Madison PD): “No, we have never had a Chandler Halderson employed here, and we do not have a dive team.” [22:13]
• Fake HR managers and email chains: “Tom Selznick” (AFI HR manager), “Alyssa Brandt,” and others never existed.
  • Stephanie: “Tom Selznick never worked for American Family Insurance because he isn’t a real person...Chandler was every single person emailing his dad.” [93:17]

The Build-up to Murder: Pressure and Discovery

[73:24–106:38]

• Parents begin doubting: Bart, frustrated with delays, contacts real college staff, discovers Chandler isn’t enrolled or graduated; no such staff as “Daniel Spieth” or “Alyssa Brandt.”
  • Bart’s phone call with Omar Jobe reveals reality: “I’ve tried to work with Daniel Spieth...It’s pretty easy to request a transcript.” [97:13–100:26]
  • Aaron: “You can feel the moment when he realizes he’s being duped.” [101:06]
• The crucial text: Bart texts Chandler, “I spoke to Omar Jobe.” [101:25]—the moment he confirmed Chandler’s lies.
• Timeline to murder: Bart schedules a meeting with Chandler (outlook: “Chaz MATC”, July 1), and the last text from Bart is, “I’m ready whenever you are.” Krista is lured home by a text from Chandler about picking up soda—she was killed soon after arrival.

Aftermath and Psychological Analysis

[106:38–111:55]

• Chandler’s pathology: Discussion on the distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy, settling on Chandler fitting the profile of a psychopath—biological, lacking empathy, skilled manipulator.
  • Derrick: “A psychopath is biological...Based on what you’ve described about Chandler’s childhood, I think this may be more something that is an indication that he’s a psychopath because there’s no reason.” [107:55]
• Motivation: Less about financial gain (unlike similar cases, e.g., Joel Guy Jr.), more about desperation to avoid exposure and maintain his lifestyle free from accountability.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He’s a pathological liar. Zero accountability is the number one thing to take from this.” — Stephanie [06:14]
• “He didn’t really know how to smile…Like, he would smile and she’d be like, ‘What are you doing with your face?’” — Stephanie [10:24]
• On fake jobs and school: “He’s telling these people…‘I have to go on a scuba diving mission’…He’s with the other girl.” — Stephanie [23:58]
• On creating fake emails and staff: “Chandler was Daniel Spieth. Chandler was Alyssa Brandt. Chandler was Aaron Hoffman...He was doing all of this elaborate work to convince his father.” — Stephanie [93:17]
• “It’s this delusional optimism this kid has…I don’t know if it’s just stupidity or just a lack of self awareness.” — Derrick [88:43]
• “He had a good childhood. He had loving, supportive parents.” — Stephanie [108:36]
• “The soda comment…He’s concerned about soda in that moment…you’re about to kill your own mother.” — Derrick [109:49]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:12 – Introduction & recap of Case
• 03:00 – Chandler’s background and characterization by friends and exes
• 07:56 – Cat’s interview and Chandler’s manipulation of her vs. ex-girlfriends
• 10:50 – Lack of emotion and odd affect (“can’t smile”)
• 11:30 – Discussion of Chandler’s behavior in interrogation footage
• 15:36 – Extreme lengths to maintain lies (voice changers, doctored screenshots)
• 20:02 – Chandler’s fabricated scuba diving job (including Madison PD denial)
• 24:47 – Psychiatric discussion: pathologies and self-diagnosis
• 37:19 – Fake college attendance; manipulation of parents regarding transcripts
• 73:24 – The true depth of Chandler’s academic, job, and identity deceptions
• 97:13 – Bart’s phone call with real college staff, the discovery moment
• 101:25 – Last known communication between Bart and Chandler
• 105:10 – Alignment of timeline, preparation for murder, Krista’s final messages

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Tone and Dynamics

Stephanie and Derrick maintain an investigative yet conversational tone, balancing detailed case analysis with personal insights and levity (especially regarding the sometimes unbelievable scope of Chandler’s lies). Cat’s interview clips stand out as both disturbing and illustrative of Chandler’s manipulation and the power of his persona over close acquaintances.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Chandler’s manipulation, compulsive lying, and lack of genuine remorse are not only central to his relationships but directly escalate to a lethal outcome.
• The unraveling of the Halderson case is a textbook profile for recognizing red flags in pathological liars and for understanding how deception at home can spiral into tragedy.
• The emotional and behavioral profile presented shows the difference between typical youthful errors and deeply antisocial/psychopathic tendencies.
• Family members, even intelligent and attentive ones, can be blindsided by long-term deception, especially when desperate to trust their loved ones.

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Continued in Part 3: The investigation zeroes in on evidence of the murders, Chandler’s cover-up, and the unraveling of his final acts of desperation.

Transcript

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[Cat]

Foreign.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Hello everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

[Aaron]

And I'm Derek Levasseur.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So today we are diving into part two of the Bart and Krista Halderson case. And we kind of left off in part one, where Bart and Christa Halderson went to their cottage, apparently with some unknown friends. Their son reported them missing. And then within just a few days of them being reported missing, things began unraveling, which ended up with Chandler sitting in a police interrogation room being told, listen, we know more than you think we know. It's time to tell us the truth about what really happened. And Chandler lawyered up. So I kind of want to go back and talk about who Chandler was for a second because from all reported areas, Chandler Halderson was an ordinary teenager who sat squarely in the center of the bell curve in every measurable way. Utterly average, unremarkable, but zero red flags. During his time at DeForest Area High School, he maintained passing grades. He had no major disciplinary issues or suspensions, and his teachers viewed him as quiet, cooperative and unforgettable. His peers saw him as someone who was a nice guy, unassuming. He avoided drama. So after graduating in 2016, Chandler continued living with his parents, Barton, Krista, and he began taking classes at Madison Area Technical College until the summer of 2019, when he began living in an apartment with a few roommates, one of which was his childhood friend, Alex Gravett. Now, Alex, who called Chandler Chaz, described Chandler as relaxed. He said, they got along well and they were quite close they'd grown up together. They'd been in Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts together, they played soccer together. He said Chandler could be a playful guy who liked to p pranks on people. And Chandler cared a lot about and put a good amount of focus into his appearance. Alex claimed that Chandler was an attractive guy who seemed to do well with the opposite sex, but he also struggled with being faithful to the women that he was with. So after describing Chandler in all of these seemingly positive or benign ways, Alex went on to tell the police. Quote, Alexander stated that he would also describe Chandler as a pathological liar. He was described as cold hearted and emotionally distanced. When asked why he would describe Chandler in that manner, he stated that he was dating multiple people at the same time and lying about it. Alexander stated that when he shared an apartment with Chandler, he was promiscuous. He stated that he had a lot of partners. End quote. So Alex is like, chandler's a great guy. We get along great. Also, he's a pathological liar. So it seemed that at any given time, Chandler was juggling at least two girlfriends and he was desperate to keep them from knowing about each other. Additionally, each girlfriend seemed to have a similar experience with Chandler. One ex girlfriend, let's call her Jane, dated Chandler during the summer of 2018 while he was attending classes at Madison Area Tech and she was living in the dorms at the University of Wisconsin. Now, she claimed that Chandler told her that his parents were not happy about him going to the dorms to see her, and one time he spent the night with her. They fooled around and she sent him home the next day with a hickey. Chandler later informed Jane that his mother Krista had been freaked out when she saw the hickey. She had called him a and his parents had taken away his car keys and grounded him for the rest of the summer, which meant that he couldn't go and see Jane in the dorms anymore. So in late 2018 or early 2019, Chandler and Jane had made plans for him to drive up and see her. And right before he left, Chandler called and told Jane that his mother Krista was having a stroke so he couldn't leave because he was concerned about her. Later, Chandler told Jane that he believed his mother had faked the stroke so that he wouldn't leave the house. And this is interesting because what I've discovered is Chandler kind of uses his parents as scapegoats. So he's not grounded from going and seeing Jane at the dorms. He is seeing another girl at this time, and he can't go and see Jane at the dorms. So he makes up a story about how his parents are so controlling and horrible, and his mother's calling him a whore because he has a hickey and taking away his car keys. So that's why he can't see Jane.

[Cat]

Jane.

[Stephanie Harlow]

It's. It's not because he's with another girl at that time, but it is a

[Aaron]

pattern to look at here. Right. Because he uses his parents as a scapegoat. And we kind of saw that last episode. Well, at least the start of it, with the interrogation. I felt like there were just subtle hints at his father being a bad guy.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Exactly.

[Aaron]

Right. Now, I had. I had said that that was probably more toward the angle of, oh, this is my plan B. A case. My main plan here doesn't work. But it just seems like a pattern where this. Where this idiot tried to paint a picture of his parents and make them the villains, when in reality was him.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. And. And it depends on who he's making the villain. It doesn't really matter to him. Right.

[Aaron]

Right. As long as it's. No accountability is the. Is the number one thing to take from this.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. So Jane told the police that she didn't believe Chandler had any issues with his father, Bart, but she felt that Chandler may have resented his father because Bart didn't step in for Chandler whenever Krista would become overbearing. Or Jane said that she was led to believe that Krista wore the pants in the relationship. And Chandler might have been angry because Bart never really did anything to help him with his mother. Now another ex. Let's call her Mary. She said that she was dating Chandler in 2018 and 2019, and while they were together, Chandler was a manipulative and pathological liar from the start who convinced her that his mother, Krista, was a narcissist and a horrible mother, even though that was not Mary's experience with Krista. Mary said that Krista always seemed happy to see her and would even bring her gifts during the holidays. Now, when Mary and Chandler broke up, Chandler happened to see a picture of Mary's best friend, Katherine Mander, on her phone, and he asked Mary to introduce him to Cat, at which point, Chandler and Cat began secretly dating. Now, Mary attempted to warn her best friend Cat about Chandler being a manipulative and pathological liar, and it ended up destroying their friendship because Cat stopped talking to Mary. Now, here's Cat, Chandler's girlfriend in 2021, who she's being driven to the police station for an interview. On July 8, 2021. And she's talking about her ex friend who she said was a problem because, you know, Chandler was a great guy.

[Catherine Milander]

Where did you guys meet? Long story, we tell people through school. But long story short, one of my close friends used to be his ex. She's not a good person, not gonna lie. But, yeah, she was very manipulative. And, like, whenever he would try to break up with her because he wasn't happy, she would threaten to take her own life. Yeah. And, like, we all thought he was this awful, horrible person. And then, like, I finally met him in person, I was like, oh, people really like Star Wars? Yeah, we. I got Star wars action figures. I'm not gonna lie. But, yeah, his entire family loves Star wars so much. His mom loves to talk about, like, how she went with her mom when she was, like, a kid to see it in, like, theaters.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So it seems like Chandler isn't just using his parents or villainizing his parents to just affect other people's opinions of others. He's also telling Cat that her friend Mary is a bad person and manipulative and kind of using those things to drive a wedge between Kat and Mary, because he obviously doesn't want Kat and Mary talking about him, which is why he and Kat dated secretly for a while until everyone found out.

[Aaron]

Don't want anybody comparing notes.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yes, exactly. He doesn't want anybody comparing notes. He doesn't want anybody coming in and saying, you know, this is what Chand Chandler said to me. Here's all the proof. So he's going to. Before Mary even goes to Cat. Chandler's gonna tell Cat, like, oh, Mary's terrible when I was in a relationship with her. So by the time Mary talks to Cat, Cat's already been poisoned against her friend. Then we have another ex girlfriend, Dakota, who was with Chandler for approximately a year starting in fall of 2019. Dakota described Chandler as a constant liar, stating that she could never believe anything he told her. She said that one time, Chandler had told her that his father, Bart, would hit and beat himself and his brother. They were little, but from what she saw, the relationship between Chandler and Bart was normal and calm. They weren't super close, but they weren't super distant either. And she'd seen Bart pick Chandler up from his apartment once or twice to take him to lunch. Now, Chandler's relationship, Dakota said, with his mother, Krista, was much closer. Crystal would talk to Chandler every day and send him messages often, but Chandler would tell her that his mother was overbearing. Dakota also mentioned that Chandler was weird with emotions. He never cried in front of her and he never seemed sad, but he also never seemed happy and he rarely smiled. In fact, Dakota mentioned to the police how she noticed that Chandler really didn't know how to smile. Like, he would smile and she'd be like, what are you doing with your face? What, what is that thing that you're doing? And he'd be like, I'm smiling. And she'd be like, no. And he told her he was rarely happy. So he didn't really know how to smile. Like, he had a hard time smiling.

[Aaron]

Talk about, talk about foreshadowing.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Right. He's like, well, I don't actually know how to do that thing that just normal humans know how to do since they're babies.

[Aaron]

His interrogation footage is fascinating when you're really now understanding allegedly what he's capable of at this point in the story. Allegedly to kind of break down his behavioral patterns. I always find that interesting to see. I guess what I'm trying to say, the lack of emotion.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Right.

[Aaron]

It's pretty, pretty blank stare as he's going through the motions and discussing his parents whereabouts and you know, knowing that he knows where they are. It's, it's interesting to watch him respond to the questioning and the lack of anything you see behind his eyes. Even though the video is a little dark and kind of on a profile angle, it's still, there's still a lot to learn there.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. And I think he used like, oh, I had this concussion, so maybe that's why I'm kind of flat. And that's why I kind of have weird, you know, reactions to things that maybe don't seem normal to you humans. Yeah, but that's, that's not the case at all. So Dakota ended things with Chandler in September of 2020 when she found out that he was also having a relationship with Katherine Mallender, who ironically, he actually started dating at around or exactly the same time he started dating Dakota in September of 2019, which also corresponded with the same time he moved out of his parents house and then into an apartment with Alex Gravet. Alex said that while they were living together, Chandler often bragged about hooking up with different women behind Cat's back. And Cat would suspect something was going on, but when she would ask questions to Chandler about it, he would just deny it. Now, In August of 2020, Dakota saw that Chandler had been tagged in a photo on Cat's Instagram page. And the audacity. But this was a photo not only with Chandler not only with Cat, but. But with Dakota's dog. So Chandler has Dakota's dog, not the dog. The betrayal, the ultimate betrayal. Chandler has his girlfriend. Dakota's dog goes to hang out with his other girlfriend, cat. They take a picture with Dakota's dog. Cat posts it on Instagram tags. Chandler, okay, so now Dakota sees this. Obviously, Dakota confronted Chandler and he said, no, you've got this wrong. Cat's just a friend, a lesbian friend. And Dakota didn't really buy it. She told Chandler, chandler, listen, I don't want photos of my dog with you and some other girl on some other girl's Instagram. I didn't give her permission to post my dog. And Chandler was like, don't worry about it. I know how to hack into Cat's Instagram and I can delete those photos remotely. Now, according to the police report, quote, a short time later, he presented a picture of a screenshot of Cat's Instagram page showing he had removed the pictures of himself from her account. Dakota noticed the screenshot was actually Photoshopped to remove the pictures of him. And other photos moved around to give the appearance the photos had been removed from Kat's account, but they hadn't, end quote. Which Dakota could obviously see just going on Instagram. So the lengths that Chandler will go to to cover things up, like, he's photoshopping a picture, a screenshot of Kat's Instagram, showing it to Dakota and being like, see? All fixed. Dakota's like, I'm just gonna go on Instagram real quick and see that that's absolutely not the case. And then on August 24, 2020, Chandler texted a friend, quote, so I accidentally cheated on my girlfriend while I was really drunk, and she wants me to call her tonight to have me end it with this girl and ask her how many times it happened twice while I was hammered. I actually didn't remember until she found out and my friend had to tell me. But unfortunately, the girl I did it with really likes me still. And I know what she is going to ask, so she's going to find it up by lying to her and all. End quote. So basically, Chandler is saying whether it's Dakota who wants him to call Cat or whether it's Cat who wants him to call Dakota. He's like, I only had, you know, hooked up with this girl two times, but the girl's not going to say that. The girl's going to say, we've had some long, drawn out relationship. Which was true because he's having a relationship with both of these girls at the same time, and they both think that he's their boyfriend and that he's being exclusive with them. So Chandler asked his friend, hey, can you use a voice changer to sound like a girl so that me and my girlfriend can call you and then you can pretend to be the other girl? I don't know. Once again, I mean, a for effort, I guess. Photoshop. Asking his friend to get a voice changer.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And his friend was like, dude, can you just, like, stop being a dick? Like, can you stop being a bad person? How about that? Let's try that out.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And we're talking about a love triangle here. But I do think this is telling when we think about the lengths he went to to just cover this lie up. You have to imagine that if he was involved in a murder or a double homicide, what would he do in that situation? How far would he go to try to make it look like it was something it wasn't? So I do think the context here matters, and it gives you a little bit of an indication as to the lengths Chandler will go to cover something up.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Well, that's what I'm saying. He goes to great lengths. It's not just, like, come clean, take accountability, and, you know, okay, one of the girls will break up with you. Maybe they'll both break up with you, but apparently you're young and you have no problem getting girlfriends. So there's more fish in the sea. You'll. You'll move on. It's not that. It's like, how can I figure out a way to keep this all going and keep my lies intact and keep the image of myself that I want other people to believe about me intact? Which sounds kind of like a narcissist, but maybe it's. It goes even deeper than that. So either way, whether it was Cat or Dakota who he was trying to convince that his friend using a voice changer was the other girl, I don't know. Cat forgave Chandler. Dakota did not. She broke up with him. And in the last week of September 2020, after their breakup, Chandler told Dakota that he'd gone to the doctor and he'd been diagnosed as a psychopath. Saying, quote, makes sense now, doesn't it? End quote. If that's actually the case. But for Alex Gravett, his old roommate and his childhood friend, it wasn't just the cheating and lying that came to disturb him about Chandler. He told the police that in the summer of 2020, he was saving up to buy a car, and he'd been keeping a large amount of cash in a tin box in his room. And then there was a party at the apartment, after which the cash disappeared. And Alex had mentioned to Chandler that he was going to bring the tin box to the police to have it fingerprinted. And the police report says, quote, alexander stated that he thought it was weird. Chandler had disclose disclosed that he believed his fingerprints might be on the tin box. He admitted to Alexander that he may have touched the tin box, but denied taking any money from it. Chandler also told him that he would give him the combination to his safe that was located in his bedroom and he could look around in his room to verify that he had not taken any of the money. Alexander stated that he thought it was really weird because Chandler had told him that if he looks inside the safe, don't judge me for what you find. I asked Alexander about this. He stated that he never looked inside the safe and he didn't know what the contents were. Alexander stated, looking back on it, he believes that Chandler was the one who had stolen the money from him. End quote. So I wish Alex had looked inside that safe, to be honest. Like, same. What the hell was in that safe?

[Aaron]

I would pay money to know. Yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So Alex also said that one night he and Chandler had been out drinking in downtown Madison when Chandler started talking about life. Quote, he stated that he believed the idea of love was never getting tired of someone. Alexander stated. That's when Chandler disclosed that he thought he might be a sociopath. Alexander stated that he was worried by this statement and tried approaching it at a later time when both of them were sober. He stated that Chandler refused to discuss this statement any further, end quote. So Chandler's telling his girlfriend, or ex girlfriend, I've been diagnosed as a psychopath. He's telling his childhood friend and roommate, Alex, I'm worried I might be a sociopath. And there's clearly some sort of thing that's not right about Chandler because he doesn't even know how to smile.

[Aaron]

Yeah, the smile thing, I'm sure will get some people go, hey, listen, I was never. That's just. It's a combination of things here.

[Stephanie Harlow]

We're not just saying a combination of things exactly.

[Aaron]

Because you didn't. You don't smile a lot.

[Cat]

You're.

[Aaron]

You're a killer. But you combine that with some of the other behaviors, and it starts to paint a picture of a person that's maybe a little concerning, maybe something we should look into.

[Stephanie Harlow]

A combination. Not everybody's photogenic. Not everybody feels comfortable smiling in photos. But just in general life to be like, I don't really know how to smile because I don't feel things. That's concerning.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Something that we should make note of.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So during the time Chandler was living with Alex, he claimed he'd been hired by the Madison Police Department to perform high risk search and rescue scuba diving missions. In fact, Chandler's girlfriend Catherine remembered when he worked this job, and she said she remembered it because there had been whole days that he couldn't see her because he was either diving or on call.

[Investigator]

Was it your understanding that Mr. Halderson knew how to scuba dive?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes.

[Investigator]

What did you know about his scuba diving?

[Aaron]

Well, I knew in high school he was a diver, but then he loved to swim. And from my understanding, he joined the Madison police diving team for search and rescue missions. I know he'd gone a few times with them, to my knowledge, but I never went with him or dropped him off or saw anything.

[Investigator]

Did he ever tell you about any of his search and rescue missions?

[Aaron]

Yes, he told me a couple of times about getting caught in riptides. And one time he said that he saw a body while doing it while scuba diving and that he was a little weirded out by that.

[Investigator]

Did he ever bring home any mementos or anything he found while scuba diving?

[Aaron]

Yes, I know there was one time he brought home a. A large pink sex toy that he found. And then there was one time I believe he brought home like an old, rusty looking knife.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Dakota Brown. D A K O T A H.

[Investigator]

How do you know Mr. Halverson?

[Stephanie Harlow]

I was in a relationship with him for one year.

[Investigator]

What, if anything, do you know about Chandler's scuba diving career?

[Witness/Interviewer]

I don't know anything other than he

[Stephanie Harlow]

told me that he has gone diving, that he was certified and that he

[Catherine Milander]

had a job diving.

[Investigator]

And did he say what department he

[Witness/Interviewer]

he dived with for the Madison Police Department?

[Stephanie Harlow]

Paige Valenta. P A I G E Valenta. V A L E N T A

[Aaron]

And how are you employed with the

[Stephanie Harlow]

City of Madison Police Department?

[Cat]

In what role?

[Stephanie Harlow]

I'm the assistant Chief of operations.

[Aaron]

In the realm of ranks of police officers. You're near the very top.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I report directly to the chief.

[Aaron]

I asked you a couple of questions in this case, which is why you're testifying, but does the Madison police have a scuba diving rescue team?

[Stephanie Harlow]

No.

[Aaron]

Has someone named Chandler Halderson ever been employed by the Madison Police to your knowledge?

[Witness/Interviewer]

No.

[Aaron]

No further questions. Okay. Another red flag here, right? It's just creating a lot of narratives that aren't True. And then when you go back to the first witness where allegedly he had brought home mementos from his career, it makes you wonder where they came from. Now, I will say this. I don't think that's the case here with Chandler. But there are volunteer units that may not be recognized by police departments. There's multiple dive organizations that work in conjunction with law enforcement when law enforcement agencies do not have their own dive team.

[Cat]

Team.

[Aaron]

And it appears that's the case here. So is there any truth to what Chandler's saying? I don't believe so. But if there are people out there in your own life who are saying, yeah, I'm working with the police department as part of their dive team, they may be embellishing slightly, trying to make themselves seem as if they're part of the department. But there are private organizations that work directly with law enforcement on certain investigations.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So these. All these same people. And you heard from Dakota, who was the girl he was dating at the same time he was dating Kat. And she just seems like. Like, I can't believe I'm up here testifying.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I could tell. She's deer in the headlights.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. She's like, I don't. I. I can't believe I ever, like, affiliated with this person. I'm so sickened. Yeah, they asked her. They asked Kat. They asked Alex, did you ever see diva scubing equipment? Like, did you ever go with him anywhere? They said, yeah, we went swimming with him certain places, but no, we never saw Divis Scuba diving equipment. We never saw him actually do it. There was never any indication that he did it. From what the police could tell, he never did any scuba diving missions and never even had scuba equipment. So he's a weird person. Right. And he's lying, and he's telling.

[Aaron]

He's pathological. Pathological. At this point. We're getting there.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. He's telling these people, especially Kat and Dakota, oh, I have to go on a scuba diving mission. I won't be available for a few days because he's with the other girl.

[Aaron]

He's with the other girl. Yeah. But he's even telling it to his guy friends as well.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, Well, I think probably to deepen the narrative to support. Yeah. That if Kat ever talked to Alex, it would be like, yeah, Chandler went scuba diving, you know, and he said that. So he brought stuff back from his missions. He saw a dead body once, which is a weird story to make up. Even if you're making up this whole job. It's weird to be like, I Came home and saw a dead body. Kind of shows you where Chandler's head is at. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Talkiatry. And I think a lot of people have had that moment where they realize that what they're dealing with is more than just a rough patch.

[Aaron]

Right. Sometimes anxiety, depression, ADH or other mental challenges can reach a point where, you know, you need more support. But figuring out where to start feels overwhelming.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Exactly. And therapy can be incredibly helpful. But therapy isn't always the full answer for everyone. Sometimes you need psychiatric care. Someone who can evaluate what's going on, diagnose mental health conditions, and prescribe medication if that's what's right for you.

[Aaron]

And that's where Talk I atry comes in.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. Talk Iatry is a 100 online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses and ongoing medication management for conditions like adhd, anxiety, depression and more.

[Aaron]

And that distinction matters to. Atry isn't a therapy only platform. It's psychiatry. So you're seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate, which can be

[Stephanie Harlow]

really important because trying to find a psychiatrist can feel like a full time job. You finally work up the energy to call and then it's like, we're not accepting new patients or the next appointment isn't for four months or we don't take your insurance.

[Aaron]

Yeah, exactly. And when someone is already struggling, that process can feel impossible.

[Cat]

Possible.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Exactly. Talk Iatry makes it easier to see a licensed psychiatrist online in just a few days. And their 800 plus clinicians are in network with major insurers, so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying high out of network costs.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And I also like that you stay

[Stephanie Harlow]

with the same provider because that consistency matters. Of course, you're not starting over every visit. Re explaining your whole life like previously on My Nervous System. You can continue with the same provider and your treatment can evolve with you over time.

[Aaron]

Yeah, that makes it feel more personalized, not like you're just being passed around.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So you're going to meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, who's going to build a personalized treatment plan with you and support you with consistent evidence based care. And more than 300,000 patients have already found high quality psychiatric care through Talk I attry.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So if you've been thinking, I know I need help, but I don't know what the Next step is. Talkiatry can help make that next step clear.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yes. So head to talkiatry.com crimeweekly to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's talkiatry.com, crime weekly, T-A-L-K-I-A T-R-Y.com crimeweekly to get matched in minutes. Okay, we're back. So I'm not saying that Chandler Halderson isn't a psychopath or he isn't a sociopath. Who knows? There's definitely something going on with him, but he for sure is a compulsive liar. And the fact that he used.

[Aaron]

That's established.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. And he used these two terms, psychopath and sociopath, interchangeably, when speaking to his friend Alex and his girlfriend Dakota. It lets me know that, yeah, he probably thinks there's something wrong with him, but he doesn't know exactly what it is, and he doesn't really care. He's not like, oh, no, what if I'm a sociopath? It's more like, I know there's something wrong with me, and I know other people pick up on it. So it's the perfect lie to use to, you know, excuse and explain my behavior that other people are picking up on. He lies to come up with some reason for why he's a horrible person. That doesn't put him directly at fault. It's always something that's happening, happening to him. Now, both psychopaths and sociopaths lack empathy, but if you ask me, Chandler falls more in the realm of being a psychopath. But we'll get there as we find out more about him. Now, according to Chandler's devoted girlfriend, Catherine Milander, Chandler just expressed his emotions in a different way.

[Catherine Milander]

I would work today for only 30 minutes.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Why only 30?

[Catherine Milander]

I was crying.

[Cat]

Okay.

[Catherine Milander]

I'm an emotional person.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Guys, what you're crying about?

[Catherine Milander]

My boyfriend's parents are missing. Like, I. I think it's more concerning if I wasn't concerned. I'm a very emotional person. Like, I cry enough for both of us is, like, what I like to say.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Sure.

[Catherine Milander]

Like, it's like, I hang out with the family often.

[Witness/Interviewer]

You.

[Catherine Milander]

There was parents. They're important. Like, I hang out with them. We play Mario Kart. His mom makes a toad sound every time she selects. Toad. No, Yoshi. The Yoshi sound. That's exactly how she does it. Loose. Every time. But, like. Like, I. I don't know. I just don't understand how you could and like, like be worried or emotional.

[Mitchell Halderson]

I know. That's why we're here. A little worried. Yeah, we're worried as is. How's Chandler been?

[Catherine Milander]

Like I said, he's not really. He expresses it in a different way. He not like the biggest emotional person, but like, I guess, like when I look at him, it's different when other people look at him. Like, I can tell it's really hard on him. And like, he just sits there and associates and like paces and like, you know, just sits there, like wearing my parents like a shell. And like, when his brother was over, like, what was that they lost around like today? Yeah, like before they went to cabin, they left around like 2ish. They're there like 20 minutes at most. But like, he's following his big brother around. Like, subtle things like most people have noticed, but, like dating him for a while.

[Mitchell Halderson]

But he was following his brother around the house today. Just pacing, upset.

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yeah.

[Catherine Milander]

In his own way, you know, like just showing. Showing his. His brother, like, hey, like, maybe like in their dressers. I didn't find anything, but, like, do you know what this male could mean? Pretty much. I stayed on the couch and I didn't want to, like, intrude in a way. Like, I've only been dating him for almost two years.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So Catherine's talking about when Mitchell came over before he and his fiance drove to the cabin to check on their parents. And she's like, yeah, you know, Chandler doesn't seem like outwardly upset, but he was following his brother around the house like a little puppy. He wasn't following him around the house because he was worried about his parents. He was following him around the house so he could, like, control the narrative, control the environment. Yeah.

[Aaron]

In case he didn't out of place or if he wanted to direct him somewhere else other than the area. That could be something that would raise

[Stephanie Harlow]

a question or plant something in his head. Like, remember when we saw the body cam footage? Mitchell's fiance was like, well, your brother's been saying your mom's really sick and, you know, she's got like a bad illness. And so maybe they went to a doctor. I believe that was an idea Chandler planted in their heads before they even left for the cottage.

[Aaron]

Yeah. He's definitely got to be careful with his brother because his brother would know the house as well as him. And if there were to be anything that. That stood out, it would stand out to someone who lived there. I mean, maybe in the fireplace area is something that wouldn't normally be there. The Brother may ask questions so he can kind of direct him through the house to say, yeah, I already checked that area or I already did these things because he knows the areas of concern. And I do think it's a bigger thing. It's manip, like you said, manipulation, trying to control the narrative. Maybe programming something into someone's head so that when they see something, they think, oh wait, that's what I already heard.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Chandler already told me about this.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, that actually lines up with what I've been told.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And Mitchell's going to defer to Chandler for a lot of things when it comes to their parents because Mitchell doesn't live at the house and Chandler does. So Chandler's technically the last person who, who saw Bar and Krista. I also thought it was funny because Kat's like, I' only been dating him for only two years, which is like, that's, that's not a short time to be dating somebody. Now. According to Cat, Chandler seemed to have a really good relationship with his parents. But she had noted some methods of punishment from Bart and Krista that had been enacted on Chandler. At least according to Chandler.

[Catherine Milander]

He's really concerned about his parents. Like, you know, every son's like my parents knowing me. But like, like there's parents, like they do dinners all the time together. Like every holiday they're doing a dinner, Father's Day, Mother's Day. They're all together like Easter. They don't really even celebrate Easter that much. But his parents make sure they have Easter baskets for everyone. Like,

[Mitchell Halderson]

so he has a good relationship with mom and dad.

[Catherine Milander]

Like he's introverted and like doesn't want to hang out with his parents. He'd rather video game on his computer.

[Cat]

Sure.

[Catherine Milander]

When we play board games, he's like more reserved, you know, like not like shouting out jokes, but like he, you know, has one liners in there.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Sure.

[Catherine Milander]

As they call them. He fishes in his backyard with his dad. That's why one of the reasons why he bought the house so they can fish in the backyard yard.

[Mitchell Halderson]

It's a good relationship. Nothing, no problems that you know of between the three of them.

[Catherine Milander]

I mean, he owed them money, but he paid them back. I told you that already. And that's why I was a lot over during the weekend. But other than that, that's like the only time I've really seen a big problem with them. I guess so what did Chandler.

[Witness/Interviewer]

So Chandler said he. You said he called you Thursday to let you know, like, hey, my parents are going to the cabin. I'm gonna be home alone with the dogs.

[Catherine Milander]

I think he snapped me that. And then, like, we FaceTimed later.

[Witness/Interviewer]

He snapped you that.

[Catherine Milander]

You know, like Snapchat.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Yep. No, no, I get it.

[Mitchell Halderson]

I just don't.

[Witness/Interviewer]

I'm not. I'm not a snapper.

[Catherine Milander]

I don't know.

[Witness/Interviewer]

So before you said that the dogs, the. The dogs are more comfortable with you than Mitch's fiance Caitlyn, just because you're around more.

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm there almost all the time. Like, I hang out with him and his parents. Like, like I told you how, like, I wasn't over for like, two weeks pretty much. But, like, I was still there having root beer flows with them that one time. Like, I cooked them Mexican traditional food before because my mom's an immigrant. Like, I'm just there often. If I'm not there, he's hanging out with me. And, like, maybe we won't hang out like two, three days a week. It's very variant. It depends on, like, if we're doing stuff with our families or if we have other plans. But, like, like I said, I played Mario Kart with his mom and dad, hang out with them sometimes, just have dinner with them.

[Witness/Interviewer]

So what was the whole two week thing?

[Catherine Milander]

Why weren't you allowed the owing money thing?

[Witness/Interviewer]

So did he. How did that come about? Why was that a big deal? Because I thought yesterday you said that he's owed for, like, rent and Christmas presents and stuff like that. So why was it.

[Catherine Milander]

That was two weeks? Yeah, because, like, he was working for American Family at the time. And like, they just. There was, like, problems with HR and how they weren't, like, paying him. And, like, it was like, they sent it in the mail, sent it to, like, not his address. So he was like, please cancel that check. Then he, like, tried getting them to, like, deposit it. And then at that point, they owed him, like, a couple thousand dollars because they were so far behind. And then I guess the company that they send money through was like, this doesn't seem legit. They thought it was a scam. And so his parents were like, you gotta give us that money because we know you have money,

[Witness/Interviewer]

but.

[Catherine Milander]

And so, yeah, then he paid them. And it was just those two weeks. They were like, you have, like, strict. Which is weird because, like, his mom's like, don't be spending money because you owe us money. But they're not, like, really? He said it wasn't really his mom. It was more of his dad, like, on him. But his dad's also an Accountant. So kind of stingy to me. Where you'll feel.

[Witness/Interviewer]

So for the two, two weeks was that when he hurt his back when he fell?

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah, it pretty much started like right after he fell because like they can just say cat can't come over. It was a part of like the recovery and like, hey, pay us back. Like, because he had to, he fell downstairs. They just had twice bruised his ribs, had to wear like a neck brace. They're obviously concerned and didn't want him doing a of lot on.

[Stephanie Harlow]

All right, so we have a couple of things to pull from that. First of all, Cat says that Chandler owed his parents money. So they told him that Cat couldn't come over for two weeks. Now, in fact, there's no evidence that Bart and Krista told Chandler this. So there was another reason that it seemed Chandler wanted to keep Cat away from his parents during those two weeks. And in that two week period. It's very important. We're going to talk about it in a minute because you heard her say, yeah, it seemed to correlate with like his injury that he had. And also he owed money.

[Aaron]

Air quotes. Air quotes.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Injury, yeah. And then secondly, Kat talks about how Chandler was having issues getting paid through his job, which at that time he was working remotely for a company called American Family Insurance, allegedly. So I said that at some point Chandler stopped living with Alex, his roommate Alex in Madison. He moved back in with his parents in Windsor. Now, at that time, Chandler wasn't working, but he told his parents that he was still a college student, although he said a hundred percent of his classes were being held held online due to the COVID 19 pandemic. Now, Bart Halderson had a strict household rule for his adult children. They either had to be working full time or enrolled in school full time. And as long as they met one of those two conditions, they would be allowed to live at home without paying rent and their meals and basic living expenses would be covered by their parents. So Chandler didn't really owe his parents rent either. It wasn't one of those things. Now, now Chandler, eventually he's going to school, but his parents eventually are like, okay, you're going to school, but all your classes are remote. You should get a job too. You know, you can, you can do both. You're a 20 something year old man, you should be able to, to juggle both of those things. So for the Halderson, if Chandler was unable to be a full time student and also work, they would have to move out and they would have to figure out A way to support themselves. Now remember, Bart was an accountant and he was very careful with, he was meticulous when handling the household finances. Chandler was also on his parents health insurance and on their car insurance. And Bart and Krista had been giving Chandler money for tuition as well. So they wanted to make sure that their investment was paying off and he was doing everything he was supposed to be doing. Now, In June of 2021, Chandler was not only a full time student, but he was working for American Family Insurance. And according to his brother Mitchell, he and his parents were incredibly proud of Chandler for being able to juggle all of it. Locking himself in his room with his computer all day long, complete his coursework and his job duties. Now it's interesting because according to Chandler's brother, Chandler was doing remote work for the company, like answering questions, doing basic customer service or IT stuff with his computer. But Chandler told his girlfriend Cat that he was helping the company plan for installing solar panels on buildings. In fact, he showed her a whiteboard with drawn up plans about how the solar panels could be a safety hazard due to the fact that they'd be pointing towards the highway and could cause a glare and blind drivers. So he was trying to work that problem out for the company. Now you also heard Katt say that, you know, he had a good relationship with his parents, he'd hang out with them, but he really preferred to kind of be by himself. Gaming. Chandler had always been a gamer. He loved to play video games since he was a kid. But it seems after he graduated from high school, he fell into the gaming life hard. And he was deeply embedded in highly realistic tactical military combat simulators. His favorite games were called Arma and esc. Escape from Tarkov.

[Investigator]

Growing up and moving into recently. What sorts of things did you and your brother Chandler do?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Since we didn't live in the same house, we would do things online like play video games and just talk that way.

[Investigator]

Okay, what sort of video games did you play?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Wide array, but generally first person shooter games.

[Investigator]

And did your brother have a favorite weapon or gun in these games?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Usually those of Russian descent.

[Investigator]

Okay, like the sks?

[Mitchell Halderson]

That's correct.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Now, in direct testimony, you indicated that your brother was very interested in Russian guns, particularly the sks, correct?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes.

[Witness/Interviewer]

And that interest goes back several years at least, right?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes.

[Witness/Interviewer]

How many years do you think that goes back?

[Mitchell Halderson]

I wouldn't be able to tell you that time.

[Catherine Milander]

Is that true?

[Witness/Interviewer]

And in fact, when you would play, he'd always pick that weapon if possible. Correct.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Variety is something that's always Nice. But yeah, that's definitely. It would definitely be an option. That would be one of his first pick. Yes.

[Catherine Milander]

Gaming. He does this thing where like he screen shares his video game with me while I go to sleep so I can go to sleep easier. And he just like explains the game and talks it out and like, just to help me fall asleep.

[Witness/Interviewer]

What game?

[Catherine Milander]

Tarkov. Escape from Tarkov.

[Aaron]

Yeah. That's a very popular game I've never played.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Really? Yeah, I've never heard of it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, I see a lot of streamers even to right now, 2026. They play that heavily.

[Stephanie Harlow]

All right, so I had never heard of it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's a big game.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I looked it up. It was his favorite from what I could tell. And I found out something interesting about it actually. So Escape from Tarkov is known for its extreme real, but it also has a reputation for fostering intense obsession among players. And it's led to behavior that the gaming community often jokingly and sometimes seriously refers to as Tarkov Stockholm syndrome. So the core structure of Escape From Tarkov is uniquely designed to hook the human brain. And the game also demands an enormous amount of real time dedication to keep up with the player base. It's a time demand that many people describe as being like, having a second job. So Chandler's life in the summer of 2021 was work, school, and playing video games. And that doesn't sound too off balance, you know, in fact, it sounds like the lives of many 20 somethings.

[Aaron]

I. Yeah, I agree.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. It wasn't as if Chandler was missing work, getting fired, or failing his classes. In fact, he'd been doing so well with his job at American Family Insurance that he announced to his family and girlfriend in early June that he'd been noticed by a much bigger company, company SpaceX.

[Mitchell Halderson]

You don't think he had anything to

[Stephanie Harlow]

do with his mom and dad being

[Mitchell Halderson]

unheard from?

[Catherine Milander]

No, I just. No. All my friends I've talked to, they're like, no, not Chandler. No, like, that'd be crazy. Sorry, I'm very monotone right now. But like, just no,

[Witness/Interviewer]

he. No.

[Catherine Milander]

Mm, mm.

[Cat]

No.

[Mitchell Halderson]

No, not a mean bone in his body.

[Cat]

Well,

[Catherine Milander]

everyone has a mean bone. They even said Mother Teresa was a dick sometimes. Like, but I just don't see him killing Mr. And Mrs. Hallerson. Like, he had SpaceX. Like, why would he jeopardize something he. He, like, would dream of? You know, like, there's parents for Christmas. They got him and his brother matching tool sets. Like, come on, he cooks dinner for them. They have Root beer floats together. They play Mario Kart whenever his parents want to, like.

[Mitchell Halderson]

And his brother Mitchell, you think Mitchell,

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah, he's a leaf in the wind. Even if he tried, they could just like push him over and he'd like break. No Mitch out.

[Aaron]

No damn. Shots fired at Mitchell.

[Investigator]

Right?

[Aaron]

Mitchell's watching that interview going, damn.

[Stephanie Harlow]

She's there like, do you think Chandler could do this? She's like, no, he had SpaceX. He cooked for his family. They're like, what about Mitchell? She's like, mitchell. They could just push him over if he tripped.

[Cat]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Leaf in the wind. Damn, that was rough. You know, and this is how it goes sometimes. Like, I, I believe what she is saying here, that she believes what she's saying. And I to talk about it more. Let's take a break and then we'll break down that video.

[Stephanie Harlow]

This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. And there are some things in life that should absolutely not be transparent.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Okay, that's a strong start.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Your search history.

[Aaron]

Absolutely not. I'm with you.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, a group chat, right?

[Aaron]

Lock it down. Lock it down. Especially our group chat.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Yeah, Wireless bills really do have a way of starting at one number and somehow becoming another number entirely. It happens to everybody.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. You think you understand the plan, then the bill arrives. There's fees, taxes, I don't know, mystery charges, emotional damage, the whole thing.

[Aaron]

That emotional damage is not itemized. But it is there. Trust me.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Yeah, and switching is super easy.

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[Aaron]

Yeah, that. That message always feels suspicious. Don't answer it. Don't do it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Yeah, and this is all done online,

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Okay, so we're back and yeah, I believe what that she believes what she, she's saying. And on the surface I see where she's coming from. It seems like from the outside looking in close knit family like she said, making root beer floats together, playing video games, pretty normal stuff, but not unfortunately normal for everybody. Not everyone has that tight knit of a family. And she did say something that I think is important moving forward, which is why would he do that? He had SpaceX. Like that was the dream. And, and you've kind of alluded to it throughout this series so far that maybe the things that people felt like he was most focused on that he had to look forward to. Well, if those things were non existent, would you still feel the same way? Is the question I would pose. If those things that you, you thought he had were a figment of his imagination, would you feel differently about the possibility that maybe he did have something to do with it? And then finally, or if you, if

[Stephanie Harlow]

you felt like he was capable of lying so extensively about those things and creating this like second fake life life, would you believe that he wasn't capable of doing something else that you previously had thought was not possible for him?

[Aaron]

And I wish the investigators would have, you know, maybe driven in a little bit more there. Maybe they did later in this interview. This is only clips, but when she says, well I mean, everyone's got a mean bone and she starts to kind of go, you know, kind of divert the attention to Mother Teresa. I would have liked to see him say, oh well, what do you mean? Like what do you mean by that? Mean bone. Yeah, everyone does have a mean bone bone. What's the, what's the meanest that you've ever seen, Chandler?

[Stephanie Harlow]

Well, I also want to Mention at the time that Kat was sitting down with the police for this interview. She did not know that Bart Halderson's remains have been located on her mother partner's property.

[Aaron]

Oh, so the fact that she said they were killed or. That's interesting.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, like that's. Yeah. So I.

[Aaron]

She didn't know they were dead at that point.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, she. She apparently did not know that Krista and Bart were no longer alone alive.

[Aaron]

Maybe there were rumors at that point where people were starting to believe that they were dead.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Or maybe Chandler was saying something like I'm really worried, maybe they're no longer alive. Kind of. Kind of that thing. But according to everyone who knew him, Chandler began working remotely for SpaceX. But he was planning to move to Florida in mid June. And then Cat was going to follow him to Florida at the end of August.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Talk about Florida. So that's where SpaceX was. That's where he was supposed to go. Go. What was the plan?

[Catherine Milander]

Go down there.

[Witness/Interviewer]

You too. Okay, so what did that mean? Cuz obviously you have a job here. So did you have a job lined up?

[Catherine Milander]

I'm just going to transfer to. Not trying to say fu, but like fu. Florida University. Because they also have a pharmacy school down there. Sorry, I'm getting Facebook notifications. Yeah, okay. I'm just gonna go down there.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Did you guys have like everything lined up? Like when were you supposed to.

[Catherine Milander]

He was supposed to leave the Saturday of the fall, so happened on Thursday, Friday, supposedly Saturday morning. And then I was gonna leave at the end or middle of August because I want to be here for my birthday. It's a big one. 2,000 yen. Gonna get crunk.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Okay, so did you guys have like a place that you were gonna like, did you have everything kind of figured out? Where were you gonna stay?

[Catherine Milander]

Just like apartment building in Titusville.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Okay. Did he like already sign the lease and stuff?

[Catherine Milander]

I think so.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Say Titusville.

[Catherine Milander]

Titus, Florida.

[Mitchell Halderson]

That where the school is?

[Catherine Milander]

SpaceX? I mean the school's in Orlando, but it's like an hour drive from Orlando and hour drive ain't nothing. It's excited. Like who wants to save up for a boat cuz he loves fishing. Want to get a year pass at Disney? Go to Universal. Is he being interviewed too or is he done?

[Witness/Interviewer]

All right, honest. I'm with you. So know.

[Cat]

I don't.

[Witness/Interviewer]

I don't know. You have my attention. So there you go.

[Catherine Milander]

I love a top ch.

[Witness/Interviewer]

There you go.

[Aaron]

First off, I don't want to judge her too hard. She's young.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I know it's that. It's that whole, like, that generation, the way they talk and kind of like the way they.

[Aaron]

Not really reading the room. You know, I. But. But young. She's young. But you know what you're there for. At minimum, you have your boyfriend's parents who are missing. Would I be saying gonna get crunk at that point. Point during an interview? Probably not, but I did want to point out for everybody who's watching on video, because I've talked about this type of interview multiple times, and the settings that they occur in. That room that you're seeing on this video is specifically designed for victims of crime, Family members, friends who they don't believe have any involvement. And it's to reduce the stress and the residual effects that being interrogated or interviewed by law enforcement can have. So. So it's a comfy couch.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. There's a lot of stuffed animals in there.

[Aaron]

That's for younger kids as well. Yeah. So it's. It could be like a facility, like a day one where the other investigators in the room, they're also sitting on a couch. They. I. I think it's intentional that they had a. A female officer present as well. All of these things are indicative of them not believing that she's directly involved. They're trying to make this as easy and as. As less least stressful as possible on her. And so this type of room, when you hear me describe it in the future, because I don't recall an episode where I've seen it before on video, maybe once or twice over the past five years. We've had it, but that is the type of room I'm describing.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. So I don't. I don't think that she was involved. Like, I do think initially they thought she could have been.

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Because as you'll come to find out, she was with him for a good portion of this weekend.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Stephanie Harlow]

But.

[Aaron]

So it'd be understandable why they might think she at least knows something.

[Stephanie Harlow]

My issue with Cat is, like you said, she knows why she's there. At the very least, his parents are missing to the point where there's police involvement. Where, you know, because you were at his house. Yeah. It's a serious matter. You were at his house. The police were there. They picked Chandler up to bring him to the police station. They drove you to the police station. Something's going on. They might even consider him to be involved because they're asking you questions along that line. And she's like, yeah, I'm gonna get crunk. I love attention. I think it is that generation. I think it's a nervousness where that comes out. You're trying to act normal and be normal. Normal at the very least. Also, though, she is still blindly defending him. And I think that has to do with being brainwashed by him, with being lied to her by him so much. Just like his. His parents were and everybody around him was, where she doesn't even really know, like, what's the truth and what's not. And it seems like he's such a compulsive liar and he lies about everything. Where you get to the point as the victim of that, where. Where, yeah, we see women defend their abusers. He didn't mean to do that. He could never do that. I know who he is. He loves me. So you. You start to discount, like, their poor behavior or red flags because they turn into a victim with you. Everybody's out to get me. And you know who I really am. And you're the only one who knows who I really am. Everybody else misunderstands me kind of thing. So I think that's what's happening with Kat now.

[Witness/Interviewer]

The.

[Stephanie Harlow]

The job with SpaceX X would sadly fall through. We're going to get to that for now. But I want you to see, the police are asking her, like, where are you going to stay when you go to Titusville? Like, do you have a job lined up there? What's the plan? Like, is there an apartment? Has he signed a lease? And Cat's like, yeah, it's all taken care of. She has no idea. She hasn't. That. It's not that. There's been no plans made to move to Florida because Chandler never intended to move to Florida. He's painting her this picture. We're going to go to Disney World. We're going to go to Universal. We're going to get a boat because I love to fish. We're going to have this beautiful future. Faking life, gaslighting the shit out of her. Oh, yeah, don't worry. The apartment's all handled. We'll get you signed up for college when we get there. You don't even have to worry about a job because I'm gonna be making so much money. I can take care of you until you get settled. None of that was true.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And looking at this interview, I always try to look at him as if I were in the room asking the questions. And at this point, you can go one of two ways. I would describe her behavior as flippant. And you could look at it as, oh, she really is just clueless about what's going on. Going on. On the other hand, you could also be entertaining the possibility that she's overselling the fact that she doesn't know anything. Right. Like, this is just bad acting where she's trying to play it up, like the crunk comment and, you know, the hand gestures that this isn't just a generational thing and that she's trying to oversell the fact to you that she has no clue why she's there or what she's being questioned about, when in reality, she knows exactly. Exactly the truth. But, yeah, I think you could go both ways with it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Or maybe she feels like something's off, but she kind of ignored it. And. And now she's being questioned, like, do you know about the apartment? Do you know what you're gonna do? And she's kind of like, no, I don't, actually.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And does that look weird? Does that seem weird?

[Aaron]

You know, whether those detectives, if they are detectives, are sitting across from her right now? I think, you know, during this interview, you're. You're trying to. To figure out who you're dealing with, Develop a basic baseline, develop a profile. Is this someone who's trying to get one over on us, or has one been getting over on her the entire relationship? So that's what you're trying to figure out.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And you can see she's. She's curious what's happening with Chandler, you know, or is he done?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

What's going on? She's getting texts. She's getting Facebook notifications throughout that she often picks up her phone and she's kind of scrolling through it. Her mom's texting her, and we will know from her mom's testimony. She kind of was like, her telling. Telling her daughter, like, something's not right with this Chandler guy. So it's not as if there's no external influences telling Cat something's off here. Like, hey, actually, we're the ones who called the police because he was on our property. Like, there has to be a part of Cat in her brain where she's like, maybe it isn't what I've thought it was. Now let's go to the summer of 2020, when Chandler and his father Bart, were trying to get someone at Chandler's college to send Chandler's transcripts and a copy of a certificate that showed Chandler had completed school's solar energy program. Now, at that time, Chandler had already gone through the solar energy program, and he was enrolled in an IT program, and he was just About a year away from graduating. So on August 5, 2020, someone named Daniel Spe sent Bart Halderson an email about setting up a Zoom meeting to settle all of this. Cuz they weren't getting Chandler's transcripts, which it shouldn't be that hard, right? So Daniel told Bart that he'd spoken to Chandler on the phone earlier that day and he knew that Chandler and his father wanted to meet with him. But unfortun, he wouldn't be able to hold a meeting until Tuesday, August 11th. Daniel told Bart, you know, if there's any conflicts with that date, let me know as soon as possible so we can reschedule. Bart emailed back promptly. Within a few minutes, he told Daniel, speed, no, there's no issue. This date will work for me. Send the details for the Zoom meeting to my work email now. On August 10th, Daniel Spe emailed Bart again. He apologized profusely because one of his family members had been diagnosed with COVID and he would have to reschedule their meeting that was supposed to happen the next day. So Daniel ended the email, telling Chandler, who was cc'd in, to call him the following day for more details. On Aug. 26, Daniel Spieth emailed Bart again, saying that Chandler had recently been informed that his counselor was not going to be able to make her meetings that day and that Daniel would be conducting the meeting himself remotely. Instead. Daniel wrote, quote, he also sent me a list of topics to have ready. I have full access to the servers so I have the information. He gave me your contact info. Does 9, 30 or 10 work for you to answer a call and end quote. Another email from Daniel to Bart arrived minutes later saying, quote, I have approved his renewable energy certificate. Is the address on file correct? End quote. And then he gives Bart and Chandler's home address. Bart replied to the email saying that he could make either time work for a phone call. He just had to make sure he was finished by 11:15. Bart then wrote, quote, I believe Chandler is in a meeting with a potential employer until 10am did he say it was okay to have the call without him? End quote. Apparently, Chandler was was fine with Daniel and his father having the call without him, because Bart, it appears, did receive a call from Daniel Spieth the following day. And whatever Daniel had said must have made Bart feel like everything was on track, because he didn't contact Daniel again until September 9, 2020. Bart asked Daniel for an update on Chandler's accounts. He said he needed to know the following items. Has this account been set up so that I can request transcripts. Has the national database been updated so that student aid can see that, you know, Chandler's registered as a full time student. When is he going to be rece receiving his certificate for completing the solar energy program? Now the reason that BART was so involved in what was going on with Chandler and Madison Area Technical College was because BART was very to the penny when it came to money and Chandler was on his car insurance. Now, it seemed that their car insurance company offered a 25 good student discount to young drivers. And this required that Chandler be enrolled full time in high school or college college, maintain good academic standing, usually a 3.0 GPA and higher. And to verify this, the insurance company would need to see a college transcript. By October 23rd, the issue with the transcript and certificate had still not been resolved. So Bart emailed Daniel again asking for an update. On November 2, Chandler emailed Daniel Spieth asking Daniel if he could send the transcripts to his home address because there was a program with his his insurance that would help him save money with a good GPA. On November 30, Daniel Spieth emailed Chandler and said he believed he had gotten through to his federal loans and he was also drafting a letter for his insurance company and Daniel wanted to know if a PDF would work for Chandler. Also in August of 2020, Bart and Chandler were emailing with someone named Alyssa Brandt, another employee of Madison Area Technical College. On August 18, 2020, Chandler emailed Alyssa reminding her that they had spoken on the phone the and asking if she had emailed his father Bart yet. Alyssa replied she apologized because she'd had the incorrect email address for Bart. She said she was waiting on two advisors to send times that they had open for meetings and she would send those times to Bart by the end of the day. On August 19, Bart emailed Alyssa Brandt and said he had not received the dates from her when they could talk to someone about Chandler's account and student status. And this was causing financial aid and insurance issues, but also quote, giving me other concerns, end quote. Bart told Alyssa that they'd been dealing with the same issue for countless months and he thanked her in advance for her prompt attention to the matter. Alyssa emailed Bart back and said that the college had a shortage of advisors at that time and that August 26th was the soonest they could make time for Chandler. Bart replied back telling Alyssa that he'd blocked off the 26th to his calendar, but it was his desire to get this all taken care of sooner. And he said Both me and my wife have the day off the following Friday, at which point we can go and to the college in person and settle everything. Then Alyssa didn't respond. Then on August 25, Bart emailed Alyssa again and he said, hey, listen, we're supposed to have a meeting tomorrow, but I have no details about this meeting. If it's a virtual call, I need a zoom link. If it's an in person meeting, I need to know where the meeting is happening and who I'm meeting with. Now, it appears that on August 26, Bart received a call from someone at Madison Area Technical College. And the next communication with Alyssa Brandt didn't happen again until May 24th of 2021 1, when Chandler emailed her to say that he'd gotten the COVID vaccine and he was feeling really sick from it, so he would need to reschedule his meeting with his advisor or his counselor, Aaron Hoover, that day. At 10am Chandler asked for another day that following week to reschedule. And Alyssa emailed back telling Chandler she was sorry he wasn't feeling well. She said, I didn't have a great reaction from the COVID vaccine either. And she told him that she was moving his appointment with Aaron Hoover to the following Monday at 10am she also said that they had an opening before that on Friday, and she, Chandler, could take that slot if he wanted. Chandler wrote back, and he was like, no, I can't take the Friday appointment. I've already missed two days of work because I'm sick, but I'll keep the Monday appointment. He then emailed again shortly after, and he was like, hey, actually, Alyssa, is there any way I can keep my appointment for that day? May 24th? Or can I actually take the Friday appointment? I'll find a way to push through and feel better. Now, I have a strong hunch that when Bart Halderson found out Chandler had canceled a meeting, that they'd been working for over a year to get he laid into Chandler.

[Aaron]

And there's no doubt. Why wouldn't he?

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I mean, we're both parents.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

A year, Stephanie.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

To get transcripts and then you're gonna.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, I had a vaccine. I'm not feeling good. I have to cancel my appointment.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And as a father, I mean, that's your job. And as a mother as well, like, I mean, you're trying to allow your kids to grow as they become young adults and make their own decisions, but when they make a really stupid one, it is also your responsibility to hold the him accountable. If that is what happened? If your assumption is correct, which by the way, I believe it is well within his right to do that.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, cuz he's like trying to cancel. He's trying to cancel. She's pushing it out a week. And then he's like, actually, can I keep my meeting today or can I get you know, another meeting, like sooner than, than a week from now or, or he canceled the appointment and then he wrote back saying oh, I need another appointment so he could show his father. Like oh, actually I changed my mind, I was feeling better or I decided I could soldier through. But by the time I said I wanted that appointment, they said it had already been filled. Because Alyssa wrote back and she was like, no, your time slot for today, it's already been filled, but you can come in on Friday at 1:00pm and that happened to be May 28th. But then on May 28th, Alyssa Brandt sent out an email that was addressed to students in general, not just Chandler. And this email informed the students that they were having a staff shortage, so there would likely be changes in the dates and times of, of their meeting. That same day, Chandler sent an email to Alyssa Brandt and he's like, hey, is there a problem with my meeting? Because I've been waiting for a long time and no one's here. And then Alyssa wrote back and she was like, yeah, we're having a shortage of counselors. Like I sent an email out informing you we're trying to find someone who's free to call you. You'll be getting a call shortly. Chandler also received an email from Aaron Hoover that day, who was apparently his like counselor and advisor at Madison Area Technologies Clinical College. And this is the first email he's ever gotten from Aaron Hoover. And the email basically said, I'm a member of the Madison College's advisement team. That day we're short three advisors. I'm going to take meetings from absent co workers on a first come, first serve basis. But Aaron was like, hey, if you have a meeting with me, that's 12:30 or after that day, you're now not going to be meeting with me until Tuesday morning. So remember, Chandler had taken the 1pm on Friday with Aaron. And now Aaron's emailing and saying, hey, if you have an appointment after 12:30, I can't meet you till Tuesday. Which pushes out even further than that week. And now instead of being a week after his initial appointment, it's a week and a day after his initial appointment. So now Chandler wrote back to Aaron Hoover and he's like, listen I need this meeting to happen today. I've been trying to get a meeting for a very long time because I need proof that I've completed my degree in my solar energy program and I could lose my job over this. Aaron wrote back, and he was like, so sorry. During these difficult times, we must follow policy. So Chandler and Aaron go back and forth a bit. Chandler's very upset. He was like, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this. I need someone in charge to call me within the next 30 minutes, or else. I've been a very good student for over three years, and by God, I will be treated fairly. And then on June 1st, Chandler's urgency is suddenly gone, and he says he has to cancel the meeting that they had scheduled for that day due to a work conflict. And Chandler asked if Aaron Hoover could get him his transcripts. And Aaron said, I can do that when they are available. Who should I send them to? And Chandler gave Aaron his father Bart's email address. On June 1, Chandler emailed Alyssa Brandt and asked if there was any progress on the documents he requested. Alyssa replied and said, yeah, it's been a hectic day. I'm trying to gather all these documents that you need myself. I won't be able to access them until the key to the records room arrives. And I'll let you know when that happens. This is in 2021. This is the digital. Digital age. Are we supposed to believe that Chandler's transcripts and all the documents that he and his father need are locked away in some dusty records room that. That no one can access?

[Aaron]

I think it's important. Important distinction that you're making here, because some may say, oh, that. That makes sense, but it's 2021. Everything's digitized. that point, we're talking. This is right around Covid.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Especially a recent. A recent transcript. Right. Because you just graduated.

[Aaron]

Yeah, Everything but. I mean, everything was digitized by. When we were in college. I mean, I don't recall.

[Stephanie Harlow]

That was a long time ago.

[Aaron]

That was a long time ago. I don't. I don't recall getting hard copies in 2004. Maybe a little bit more than I do now. But I remember our grades and our transcripts and our. Whatever it was, it was all digitized. We would get it in the email like everybody else.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. Or a student portal.

[Aaron]

Exactly. Like a portal Exactly. Where you can go on and access it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

These people are like, what address should I send them to? Not email address. Like, is this your correct home. Home address? No. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. And you know when something pops up last minute, which is always because I forget things and I don't put them on my calendar, but. So when everything pops up last minute and suddenly you need an outfit that says, I had this planned. I knew about this. I put this in my calendar. Even though internally. No, you absolutely did not.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So what you're saying is your outfit needs to lie on your behalf.

[Stephanie Harlow]

The outfit needs to be calm, confident, very convincing.

[Aaron]

That's a lot of pressure on your fabric.

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[Aaron]

And it's also good for last minute plans as well.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, here's the thing. It is because instead of spiraling through your closet and trying on seven outfits while creating a small emotional support pile on your floor that never gets picked up and hung back up, by the way.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Also known as the outfit graveyard. I have one in my. In my house right now.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Exactly. Which is nice because shopping can become its own investigation sometimes.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Oh, and I already do enough investigating. I don't need to be cross examining a dress at midnight. Like, do you work with the shoes I already own? Where were you on the night of the dinner reservation? Are you going to hold up for me through that throughout the evening?

[Aaron]

Listen.

[Stephanie Harlow]

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[Aaron]

Yeah, and Revolve's great because they have new arrivals daily. So if you go on there and you don't see anything you like, you got to go back the next day because new stuff is always popping up.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, that's actually not great for me because I find myself going. Not great for the wallet. But they also have inclusive of sizing, fast shipping, which is very important when you're planning for a last minute thing, and easy returns. So even if you want to grab a few backup options or a backup option for the next time you forgot you had something coming up. It doesn't feel like a high stakes commitment.

[Aaron]

Yeah, a dress should not be a legal contract. Let's be honest.

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[Stephanie Harlow]

All right, so three days after Alyssa Brandt tells Chandler I have to wait until I get the key to the record room, Chandler emails Alyssa again. And he's like, hey, are there any time slots open with Aaron Hoover for the following week? And she's like, sure, yeah, perfect. I can do that easy. How does Thursday at 11:30 work? And Chandler was like, perfect, put me in there. So then on Thursday, June 10, Aaron Hoover sent an email to the students telling them that he had to take the rest of the week off due to a family emergency. And if anyone had any questions, they should email or call Alyssa. Alyssa Brandt, because Chandler has bad luck. He happened to have an appointment scheduled with Aaron Hoover for that very day. So he did what Aaron told him to do. He emailed Alyssa Branton. He was like, hey, my advisor. Aaron took off today and tomorrow, but I have a meeting scheduled, so who should I meet with? And Alyssa was like, wait, you have a meeting scheduled? When? And Chandler was like, today at 11:30. Remember, you scheduled it for me? And Alyssa was like, oh, no, you misunderstood. I never gave you a date. I just said Thursday. But it's not this Thursday. You're actually scheduled for next Thursday, June 17th. 17th. And by the way, I strongly advise that you keep that meeting because there are 50 students on the wait list. So that same day, Bart Holderson he emailed Alyssa Bran. He popped off. In the email, he tells her, quote, this is unacceptable. We have been dealing with this issue for well over a year now. It has been costing us money the longer the delays have continued. I'm not sure of the professionalism of the advisors, but it seems like they will take off at the drop of a hat, and it messes with the whole schedule. Chandler and I have both rearranged our schedules to meet with an advisor today, and I expect you find a way to make that happen, end quote. So at this point, Bart clearly believes that Chandler has been making every effort to make a meeting and keep it. And it is the school, the college, that's messing up.

[Aaron]

If I. If I was from the outside looking in, I would think the same thing.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yes. Now, at the same time, in early June of 2021, Bart and Chandler are also emailing with someone named Tom Selznick, who was the Northeast Remote Agent HR manager for American Family Insurance. Remember, Chandler works there. Apparently, Chandler had been working there for several months, but he had yet to receive a paycheck. On June 11, 2021, Bart emailed Chandler saying, quote, did you email HR to inquire about your paycheck? Unless there is something that you are not telling us, they have had ample time to pay you, end quote. That same day, Chandler emailed Tom Selznick asking for an explanation of why he hadn't been paid. And Tom. Tom Selznick emailed back saying, quote, hi, Chandler, I was given your case on Tuesday. However, I have contacted your payroll company and have determined a few issues. One, you are registered as salary. However, you are making an hourly wage. Two, for two months, the payroll company saw your name and dues as a clerical error. Unfortunately, you have been making 25 an hour when your salary states that you should be making 61,000 annually. When I get in contact with payroll, I will show them exactly when you were switched and find out why there was a delay on your dues. Have a great rest of day your or Friday, end quote. Later that same day, Tom told Chandler he'd updated the log and changed his dues. He would let payroll know about the change. And Chandler should keep an eye on his bank account. And if he didn't get paid by next Friday, June 18, he should let Tom know. Now, if you see in the timeline here, we're mid June of 2021, which is getting pretty close to the date that Bart and Krista Halderson vanish right then, Something happened on June 17, something that would derail Chandler's attempts to get paid and get his transcript. Something that according to Chandler, would derail his entire life and all the well laid plans he had made. All the hard work he'd been putting into creating his future. He fell down the stairs and had to go to the emergency room.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Do you know when he fell?

[Catherine Milander]

Yes. June 17th, after before 1:42. Cuz that's around Sam's picture was taken.

[Mitchell Halderson]

He was just going down the stairs and fell.

[Catherine Milander]

He was on the phone with his boss. His time him to hurry up to his computer. So he's running down the wooden stairs with socks.

[Cat]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Classic.

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah, yeah.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Catherine Milander]

And so here he is in all his glory.

[Mitchell Halderson]

So I'm going to ask you a weird question. With him falling, he probably was going on the computer, but any kind of biops in the house? No, no.

[Catherine Milander]

His dad was downstairs at his computer. He was telling me about like hearing Chandler fall. He was like as on my computer. It didn't sound bad. And then like I got up to like check after a while and like he was on the floor and I was like okay, Mr. Halerson, sure. Yeah. No, Chandler's clumsy. It is not the first time he has fallen. He needs like a life alert. The button things. Yeah, I've seen one of his many falls. Just this. He really likes the socks. Okay.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Saxon. Long sleeves.

[Catherine Milander]

Yeah, it's really pretty. It's good. Take a weird thing.

[Aaron]

It's hard. It's hard, man. I'm trying. Listen, I get it, I get it. You know, she's a, she's a unique character.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, because earlier they were like, oh hey, it's July 4th. You showed us a picture of Chandler on July 4th at your, your mom's partner's house at like a pool party. And he's wearing long sleeves. Like why is he wearing long sleeves? It was like 98 degrees that day. And she's like, he always wears long sleeves even when it's hot out. And so now they're like, oh, he falls. And she's like, he likes his socks. His socks and long sleeves. He's weird, but in a good way. And you heard she's like he fell down the stairs. This cracked me up when I was listening. She's like his father was sitting on his computer and he heard something, but he said it didn't sound that bad. And then after a while he got up and Chandler was just laying on the floor because you know, Chandler faked this fall down the stairs. And he laid there forever wondering like who's going to come? Chandler Check on me. Because he had to have somebody find him.

[Aaron]

Someone to witness this. Yeah, yeah. And it makes more sense now because when you told us about this, this particular fall in episode one, and you kind of alluded to the fact that it maybe wasn't what it appeared to be, I was wondering why. And now with this context, as far as the job, the job, the transcripts and the transcripts at school. And then also, and I don't want to, like, I don't want to skate over this. There was a part in that email with Bart that you had said where he, he said, unless you're not telling us.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Unless there's something you're not telling us.

[Aaron]

So Bart wasn't oblivious.

[Stephanie Harlow]

By mid June of 2021, Bart's starting to be like, what the hell's going on here?

[Aaron]

More importantly, Chandler knows that Bart is starting to know what's going on here. So he's got to raise the ante because what he had been doing up to this point, just from his father's comments, he knows it's, it's coming to a head soon. And that although Bart is still trying to be back him, something isn't adding up. And now he's even throwing out there. Are you lying to us? Indirectly. Are you? What's, what's the, what's really going on here? Because this doesn't make sense. And that, that statement, I've done it with my, with my daughters, and I'm sure you have as well, where you know the answer to the question, but you're asking it anyways. And I feel like at this point Bart is suspecting that Chandler is not being completely truthful with him. And I think Chandler knows that he knows. And here we are. Now we, now we have this, this quote unquote accident occurring at the, at the perfect time, which would give Chandler an excuse for everything that's going to transpire in his life after that point, which he already knows is going to happen.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. So I think what's happening is Bart feels something in his gut.

[Aaron]

He's a smart guy, no doubt apparent

[Stephanie Harlow]

intuition, but he doesn't want to believe it. He doesn't want to believe, but something's screaming at him, but he still doesn't want to believe it. Like he's yelling at Alyssa Brandt. He's like, what's going on? Your college is so, so you have no professionalism. But then the whole thing with the paycheck is happening too. So it's like we can't get his college transcripts. We can't get him paid. Is this kid the just most unlucky person? Like, is he just absolutely targeted by every single, you know, institution that he encounters? And then he falls down the stairs, and it's like, oh, my God, this kid, He's a victim. Like, poor Chand. He's trying so hard to make everything work. And, you know, it just. It doesn't seem to be working out for him because of everyone else around him that's causing these issues. So according to Chandler, right. The fall had been pretty bad. Pretty bad. He had to wait for his dad to find him so that he could see. Yeah, Chandler can't move. You know, even though Bart told. Told Cat. Like, I don't think he didn't sound like he felt that hard, but, you know, apparently he did. Chandler said he had an aneurysm, a severe spinal fracture. After the fall, he suffered from constant headaches, confusion, memory loss, and numbness in his legs, which led to medical restrictions that prevented him from being able to move around freely. And he couldn't drive either. So his mother, Krista, was very worried about Chandler after this, just like she'd been worried about his brother Mitchell when he, too, had had a health scare earlier that month.

[Investigator]

In June of this last year, 2021, you had a significant health episode. Is that a fair statement?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yeah, I'd say so.

[Catherine Milander]

Okay, what occurred?

[Mitchell Halderson]

I went to the doctor for a regular scheduled appointment since I hadn't gone during COVID and wanted to get blood work done. And I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.

[Investigator]

And in fact, you were hospitalized for

[Catherine Milander]

a period of time?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes, that is true.

[Investigator]

Was your mom or dad. Did they seem concerned, concern to you at all?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes.

[Investigator]

You kind of laughed there. Why'd you laugh?

[Mitchell Halderson]

My mom was overly concerned.

[Stephanie Harlow]

How did she express that?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Not as much to me, trying to not show me that. But I have heard later on that she called her best friend many times, crying.

[Catherine Milander]

Okay.

[Investigator]

And in fact, during your illness, your brother gave you a gift.

[Catherine Milander]

Is that fair to say?

[Mitchell Halderson]

Yes.

[Stephanie Harlow]

What did he give you?

[Cat]

A.

[Mitchell Halderson]

A unknown type of bullet with the words get well soon on it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So Mitchell has, you know, he's diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. His brother gives him a gift, a bullet, with the words get well soon written on it.

[Aaron]

It's a choice. It's a choice.

[Stephanie Harlow]

What the hell is that? When I heard that, because it was in, like, some kind of unrelated testimony when I was initially listening to Mitchell's testimony before, I understood the implication of what that unknown type of ammunition was, by the way, because it's Going to come back.

[Mitchell Halderson]

What.

[Stephanie Harlow]

What the hell is that?

[Aaron]

Like, if this was like a big gun family and they were around firearms all the time, hunters, whatever it was, it could be a way of making a tough situation a little bit lighter, having fun with it. But what we've been talking about with this particular family, it doesn't seem like they were gun nuts. And so this ammunition thing, it doesn't, doesn't play well. In fact, I almost interpret it as like, hey, threat. Yeah, yeah. Or even the other way, like, hey, just put a bullet in your mouth. Like just end it all or just like, because it was one singular bullet, right?

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, one bullet. Get well soon.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I would love to ask Chandler where he, what he thought about what was the intention behind that one.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So to me, it's, it feels like a veiled threat, kind of like, just so you know, I have real bullets. Like, I know we play gun games online together, but like I have, have real bullets.

[Aaron]

Really?

[Witness/Interviewer]

So.

[Aaron]

So you're thinking there's something more there, like, hey, I'm. That's great that you have diabetes, but also, be careful.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah. Also your diabetes, type 1 diabetes is not like a disease to mess around with, by the way. You could potentially die from it if you don't manage it correctly, if you don't take the proper medications, manage your blood sugar. So it's kind of like, hey, this is going to be hanging over your head. Like it's not a. Oh, you, you, you fell down the stairs and you are going to get we well soon. You don't really get well soon from. It's, it's a lifelong thing. You have to manage. I, I think that Chandler really resented his brother Mitchell because Mitchell was actually successful, did actually have a good job, had a healthy relationship, was buying a house, had moved out of his parents house. He kind of felt like, I think Mitchell was the favored child. Like, oh, he actually went and did something with his life. And Chandler, like he can't even get paid from his job, you know?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Harlow]

While Mitchell's illness was real, as it turns out, Chandler. Chandler's was not.

[Investigator]

So on June 17th of 2021, did you in fact see a patient named Chandler Halderson?

[I]

Yes, ma', am, I did. I believe it was around noon that day. I was working out at the emergency department at the UW Hospital at the American center, also known as tac.

[Investigator]

What symptoms did he present with?

[I]

I believe he was complaining of some pain doing his head and his right ribs after A reported fall down some stairs. At that time, my physician assistant went and evaluated the patient.

[Mitchell Halderson]

First.

[I]

He came up with a treatment plan. We discussed it. I evaluated the patient afterwards and agreed on the plan and then got some imaging.

[Investigator]

Okay. What imaging did you get?

[I]

We got a CT scan, a CAT scan of his head, and his C spine is surface cervical spine.

[Investigator]

And what, if anything, did that imaging reveal?

[I]

Those images were reported as being negative without abnormality. The PA and I both did an abbreviated physical exam looking for any signs of injury. We did discuss with the patient a potential X ray of his ribs because he was having some right sided chest tenderness. At that time, the patient declined the additional imaging. And. And I think about that time we closed the encounter. I believe for this case, the patient had some residual neck pain, so he was given a collar to go home with for support, with instruction to follow up with his primary care physician and with the spine team that was on call.

[Investigator]

Is it unusual for you to hand out a neck brace or a neck collar with somebody who says, hey, my neck is hurting?

[I]

No, ma'. Am. It is not unusual at all.

[Cat]

Okay.

[Investigator]

At any point in time during your visit with Mr. Halderson, did you tell him he was going to experience paralysis?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point during your time with Mr. Halderson, did you tell him that he had a brain bleed?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Cat]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point during your appointment with Mr. Halderson, did you at any point tell him that he had a brain aneurysm?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him that he had nerve damage?

[I]

I don't believe so. No, ma'.

[Witness/Interviewer]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him he had a spinal injury?

[I]

No, I don't believe so.

[Investigator]

At any point did you advise him that he should not fly in an airplane?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him that he should not fly drive?

[I]

I don't believe so, no.

[Investigator]

At any point did you ever say that he shouldn't drive long distances?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Cat]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him that he had a hematoma in his brain?

[I]

No, ma', am, I did not.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him that he would have an inability to use his legs in a normal manner?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point did you tell him to because of his mild concussion, that he was going to have to have a colostomy bag?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Am.

[Investigator]

And just to be clear, that's a bag for poop?

[I]

That's correct.

[Investigator]

At any point in time, did you have to drill A hole into his head?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Cat]

Am.

[Investigator]

At any point in time, did you tell him that he was going to have to have surgery where a hole would be drilled in his head?

[I]

No, ma'.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Am.

[Investigator]

No further questions.

[Aaron]

Well, the good news is, Chandler, you're gonna be okay, buddy.

[Stephanie Harlow]

He's gonna be okay. But he's even telling the police, right? He's like, have you ever not been able to use your legs? It's like, did he not think they were going to follow up with the doctor?

[Aaron]

Yeah, I, I, it's this delusional optimism this kid has. There were some people in our comments section talking about it and it's, I don't know if it's just stupidity or just a lack of self awareness. I don't know how, as in this. And Chandler seems to be an intelligent person. I don't know. I think it's just a web of lies where you get so deep that you just keep creating more, hoping that that's what gets you out of the rut you're in, when in reality you're only making it worse. I don't think he thinks that everyone around him is that dumb. I just think he's, he's impulsive and he's just saying the first thing he can think of and there's really no thought that that goes into it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

So he's thinking more in like, short term, like, how do I get out of this right now, today, this immediate moment. Yeah, right.

[Aaron]

Because for whatever we want to say about Chandler, he, he's an intelligent person. Right. Like he's not some dummy, but he's not a career criminal. And, and there is a distinction there, Right. Like he's, as far as we know, never committed a crime like this before. And so when you see that camera footage that we were laughing about last episode, that is an inexperience, Right. That is someone who doesn't have a background in, in this type of behavior and didn't know what they should do prior to committing the act. It doesn't mean they're dumb. But yeah, I think it's an impulsive kind of in the moment situation where he just wants to get out of that room.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And he's saying whatever he needs to say.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Very childlike, like, they think you're not going to follow up. Or at least like, I can get out of the discomfort of this moment. I can buy myself another day or two.

[Aaron]

I was literally just going to say buy time. Just trying to buy time until they can come up with a better excuse for Everything that's going on.

[Stephanie Harlow]

But as you're doing that, you're raveling that ball of yarn tighter around yourself.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And also just creating a lack of credibility for anybody who is having a conversation with you.

[Stephanie Harlow]

But once again, it feels like the people around him want to believe him. Right. So these people aren't consistently like Chandler. You're a lot. Liar. They are believing him. They're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Aaron]

You're talking about the family.

[Stephanie Harlow]

The family, his girlfriend, everybody. Yeah.

[Aaron]

As far as the interviews and interrogations, I think it's.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

They don't believe anything he said.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I don't think they believe anything he was saying. No. All right, we're gonna take our last break. We'll be right back. Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, to toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune, which is where Lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is. Okay, we're back. So, obviously because of this injury, this fake injury, of course, Chandler could not make his meeting with the Madison Area Technical College counselor, Aaron Hoover, on June 17. So he had to email Alyssa Brandt and tell her that he was on his way to the hospital, and he knew there was a waiting list, but he needed to reschedule as soon as possible because, remember, Alyssa told him, like, I highly suggest you keep that meeting because there's 50 students. So now Chandler has a reason of why he can't get a meeting again very, very soon. Because 50 students, it's going to be weeks, maybe months before he can schedule another meeting. So on June 17, Chandler also emailed Tom Selznick from American Family Insurance to let him know that he needed his paycheck as soon as possible because he recently had to go to the ER and he was going to need that money for medical expenses. Now, I don't know if you've put it all together yet, but Tom Selznick never worked for American Family Insurance because he isn't a real person. And Daniel Spieth, Alyssa Brandt, and Aaron Hoffman never worked for Madison Area Technical College because they aren't real people. The email address spiethdanielgmail.com was created on August 5, 2020, and the same day, the first email was sent from that account. And this was an email sent to Bart Halderson. An email address that was created using the IP address of the Halderson home with Chandler Halderson's date of birth and Chandler Halderson's cell number as the recovery number. So when we say, like, oh, he seems like a smart person, I don't think he really was.

[Aaron]

Maybe book smart. Maybe book smart.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I don't know. Maybe. We'll see. The same went for the rest of the email addresses Alyssa Brandt, Daniel Spieth, Aaron Hoover created the same day that the first emails went out. Created using the IP address of the Halterson home. And they never interacted with anyone other than Chandler and Bart Halderson. Chandler was Daniel Spieth. Chandler was Alyssa Brandt. Chandler was Aaron Hoffman. Chandler was Tom Selznick. And for some reason, he was putting all of this elaborate work into convincing his father that all of these people did exist and that they were working behind the scenes to get Bart's issues with the transcripts and the payroll and everything addressed. As it turns out, Tom Selznick was not the only person who didn't work for American Family Insurance. Chandler Holderson had never worked there. He had never applied for a job there. And there was no, no evidence that he had ever communicated with anyone from SpaceX or been offered a job there or held any employment status there.

[Aaron]

And, you know, this sounds crazy, but at the same time, it's not hard to believe. Why? Well, you've set it up for us. You described a situation earlier involving multiple relationships where instead of just telling the truth, Chandler was going to great lengths to hide the truth, including asking his friend to use a voice, Voice changer, just to keep this narrative, this false narrative going. So if he was willing to do that, when the stakes, let's be honest, they weren't that high, if one of them finds out, or both of them find out, you're single, you move on. So to think that he would do all of this when this is a lot more serious. Not a. Not a stretch. Not a stretch. He's not still not good at it, but he's trying.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And I mean, none of these emails or these email addresses were from legitimate things, so. Right. You normally see a school email address address like Madison County Technical College Edu. These were Gmails. Okay. So even though Bart Halderson is a smart person and an intelligent person. Even though he probably saw the email addresses these were coming from, he still gave Chandler the benefit of the doubt.

[Aaron]

I'm glad you brought that up, because that was the other thing I wanted to mention. I don't know how far Bart had gotten into his own investigation, how much he had kind of put together already, because a lot of what you're about, talking, going over, is the tangible evidence that we have. I. E. Emails. But I do wonder about the conversations that were happening in person that Bart and Krista are no longer here to talk about because they're dead. I would imagine that there were in person conversations that happened between Chandler and Bart where he may have questioned the email. Right. He may have said, this is a weird. This is a weird web address that it's coming from. We don't know.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Chandler was probably like, it's because of COVID Covid, man.

[Aaron]

Right. Well, I'm just. There might be even more to this story than just the passive comments, like, unless you're not telling us something, you know, some. Unless you're not being honest with us. There might have been more in person. They lived in the same house where they were having conversations. Maybe even this is what led to what happened. Maybe that was the exact conversation when that was happening in that moment. We don't know. But it does start to paint a picture of motive. Right. That big word.

[Stephanie Harlow]

We kind of do know what conversations led up to what happened, because you have to look at it, and you have to say, okay, if Chandler Halderson isn't locking himself in his room for 10 hours a day working his job, well, then he must have been spending a lot of extra time focusing on his classes at Madison Area Technical College. And then we find out that on June 29, 2021, Bart Halderson made a call that lasted for 19 minutes and 46 seconds. He then sent a text message to his son Chandler that said simply, quote, I spoke to Omar Jobe. End quote. Now, here is a portion of Bart Halderson's call with Omar Jobe, who happened to be the enrollment coordinator at Madison Area Technical College.

[Cat]

Hi, I'm trying to get an appointment scheduled to meet with somebody to mainly just get a copy of the transcript and also a printed copy of a certificate that was earned and. And, you know, other degree verification. Okay, how do. How do I get that done? Okay, for the degree, you have to download the duplicate diploma form and send it in with a. With a check or a money order of $4 for the diploma to be mailed back to you. For the transcript, you have to go online and request it. Yeah, I tried requesting on online and

[Mitchell Halderson]

we never got them.

[Cat]

And I've spent on how many times doing that and at eight bucks a piece, so I'm not willing to do that again. Why is that letting you request your transcript? What is this on my system? It's your system, so don't ask me questions like that. Okay, but I need to establish the problem first before I can know how to like walk you through to get it. Are you by a computer so I can walk you through on how to get it? I've gone through the process before. I worked with, you know, I had. I tried to work with. With Daniel Spike to see if he can get through the information. I don't believe. I don't know if he's with you guys anymore, but it just seems like the ball keeps getting dropped. Okay. I mean, that's. It's pretty easy to request a transcript. That's what I thought too. And you just get to the. Okay. What's your first name? Chandler. C H, A, N, D, L, er Last name is horrible. A L, D as in David. E, R, S, O, N. Okay, so it looks like you owe a balance. Balance of 2003, 49. So that's. What if that's why you can't request it? Yeah. Can I schedule a time to actually come in there and pay all that and resolve everything at one time? Yeah, the payment center is open. Yes, you can come in. How long can they do an unofficial transcript? If you've earned a certificate, say in that solar program, you said, where does that get requested through if you earned a certificate? Yeah, I don't. I don't see that. You earned a certificate. You were taking IT classes, right? I don't see that. You were in a program, you said they were. You know, it's the I. T degree is in there, right? No, those are just classes. Do you know. Do you have a. An Alyssa Brandt that works in that area or anywhere in the campus? No. Does that check non teachers and everything? It would be anybody on campus works here. There will be anybody on campus. The directory will have anybody on campus. Does Daniel Spice still work there? No. Okay, that should do it then. Okay, thank you for your help.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So we just had this long conversation about how much Bart knew leading up to it, and it's pretty clear now he was still kind of in the dark. Yeah, exactly, because when this conversation started, he was very defensive and there was a belief there that he and his son were being stonewalled and they weren't able to get the documents they needed. And you could see he's aggressive there because he's frustrated. He's frustrated because it should be a simple process. Right. His son has a certificate. Why can't I get it? It's nothing to do with money. And so I understand the frustration initially. And then during that conversation, you can feel the moment when he realizes he's being duped.

[Stephanie Harlow]

It's all been a lie. Yeah.

[Aaron]

When he. I think. I don't know, I was a little muffled, but his last words were like, that should do it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yep. And then he.

[Aaron]

And the conversation ended abruptly because he. He realized that everything that he was being told, all of these. Maybe this was a thought in the back of his head up to this moment, but that was what confirmed it.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Exactly. And then after he says to Chandler, texts him, I spoke to Omar Jobe, right. And Chandler's probably like, who the hell is that? I don't even go to this school. I don't even know who that is. Now, here's the interesting thing. We can piece together what happened, because Chandler Halderson had been enrolled at that college, and he had taken classes there, sort of, but he had never completed a degree. And the last time he'd even been enrolled had been in the fall of 2020. He hadn't earned a credit since the fall of 2018. Chandler had been enrolled during the spring of 2018. He took four classes, which resulted in two Cs, one B, and a withdrawal from one class. He earned nine credits that semester, and he ended the semester with a GPA of 2.33. In the summer of 2018, Chandler was enrol three classes. He withdrew from one. He got an A in another and a C in the third. Now, this pattern continued into the fall of 2018, where he withdrew from one of his three courses and got an F in another. The spring of 2019, he withdrew from three of his classes and got a C in the fourth, the fall of 2019, where he withdrew from half of his classes and failed the other half, including Psychology of Human Relations, ironically enough. And then in the fall of 2020, he attempted psychology of Human Relations again, and he failed again. And the only other class he didn't withdraw from that semester, he failed as well. So at the end of the day, Chandler completed 19 credit hours in three years of college. He withdrew from 14 classes, and his cumulative GPA was 1.44. Chandler hadn't been locked in his room all day and night, cracking the books or building his bank account. He had been firmly planted in front of his computer playing video games. And then on June 29, 2021, Bart Halderson realized that his son had been lying to him about everything for years, by the way. So after getting off the phone with Omar Jobe, Bart then spent some time on the Internet, specifically the Madison Area Technical College website, where he perused their employee directory and realized that what Omar Job had said was true. Every single person who he had been communicating with since the summer of 2020 who he thought was working for the college had never worked for the college. And I think it was then he realized that Chandler was probably impersonating all of them. So Bart's Outlook calendar had an entry for 3pm that was scheduled for July 1, and it said, Chaz MATC, Madison Area Technical College. And at 2:10pm on July 1, Bart sent his son a text message, quote, I'm ready whenever you are, end quote. It was the last text message that Bart Halderson would ever send. And there was no activity on his phone after 3pm that day. At 3:19pm Chandler sent a text message to his mother, Krista, who was at work, and he said, quote, dad's phone died. Text or call me, end quote. He followed that up with another text quote, and get soda on your way home. I have an extra hour of work, end quote. Krista Halderson replied back to her son, quote, k I can with a happy face emoji at 3:22pm her phone arrived home at 5:22pm and she was never seen again. The following weekend would be a strange one for Chandler. A weekend full of unusual behavior, alarming Internet searches, and a few sleepovers at his home with his girlfriend cat, who thought they had the house to themselves that weekend and apparently had no idea that for at least one of those evenings, she was slumbering in the same house where the man she had labeled as hubby in her phone had brutally murdered and dismembered the bodies of his parents.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So there it is, right? It seems like what really was the tipping point here is Chandler was going on with this whole farce, and Bart figured it out. And from what it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, because you know more about the story than I do, it sounds like there may have been some conversations that weren't via text. I have to imagine that the exact words were. What were they? Just a quoted here. I'm. What do you say exactly? I'm ready whenever you are. It sounds to me like there was maybe A phone call or something of that nature where. Or maybe an in person discussion where he said, this is what I figured out. We have to talk. Maybe Chandler said, not right now.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Scheduled it in his calendar.

[Aaron]

Yep, he scheduled in his calendar. And then that's when Bart sends that text message, I'm ready for whenever you are.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Because he had a. He had a meeting scheduled for him where they were going to talk about everything. Everything.

[Aaron]

And then. I don't know. I'm. I. It's hard for me to ask you because, you know, but my questions right now is. Is. Is Bart already dead before Christa gets home?

[Stephanie Harlow]

I believe so, yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Right. And so it's just this. It's this kid being a psychopath where he's asking her to get sodas now.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Right, Right. That's what I'm saying. He killed his father, I believe, because there' activity on Bart's phone. And then he texts his mother, knowing that when she gets home, he's going to kill her. But on the way home, he still would like her to pick up some soda to quench his thirst from killing his parents.

[Aaron]

It's not necessary to lower her suspicion either. But maybe. But maybe. Okay, I'm putting it together as we're talking here. So then maybe him saying, dad's phone's dead went right to voicemail. That's him basically covering for when she tries to contact her husband.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Yeah, exactly.

[Aaron]

That's not gonna pick up.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

So.

[Aaron]

So that would IND he is already gone. He's no longer capable of answering his phone. So he sets that up by saying, hey, Dad's not answering his phone for me. AKA don't be alarmed if he doesn't answer for you.

[Stephanie Harlow]

No, he's. He. They're in the same house. So he's saying, dad's phone died. If you need to contact anyone in this house, call me. My phone is still charged.

[Aaron]

And then to try to throw it off a little bit and make it seem like it's just, you know, an innocent conversation, he throws in the soda comment.

[Stephanie Harlow]

No, there's no reason to throw in the soda comment.

[Mitchell Halderson]

There's no reason.

[Aaron]

But it is my talk. Think about who we're talking about here.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Why wouldn't Krista think it was a normal conversation? Like, she. She has no suspicions of anything. Right. I think he just wanted freaking soda.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Really?

[Investigator]

Yes.

[Cat]

Me.

[Aaron]

Oh, Jesus, man.

[Stephanie Harlow]

I think he knew he was going to kill her, and he was like, well, I might not be able to get out to the store to get some soda anytime soon, so I might I'll just have her bring me. Like that is like a psychopath, like using other people that you like. Just using people. Using people. I'm going to kill you, but please bring me some soda.

[Aaron]

Yeah. No. Well, I think we can kind of wrap this episode up by making a clear distinction between a psychopath and a sociopath. And I think most of you guys know at this point and there's a lot of things we can talk about when it comes to the two different profiles. But one of the things is a psychopath is biological. A lot of the times in nature it's something that's in, inherent in them. And then sociopath can be due to the environments around them, something that has developed over time. And based on what you've described about Chandler's childhood, I think this may be more something that is an indication that he's a psychopath because there's no reason.

[Stephanie Harlow]

He had a good childhood. He had loving, supportive parents.

[Aaron]

This is someone where this is more than likely biological in nature. Some markers that have been there all along. Someone who doesn't display a lot, lot of emotion. Someone who lacks a conscience. Right. Empathy, the ability to, to emotionally regulate.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Like you said, sociopath can be your environment. So trauma induced, things like that. But a sociopath can feel limited empathy or guilt towards certain people where a psychopath does not feel anything and a psychopath's more controlled. So like where a sociopath will act recklessly, lose control, things like that, like they don't really have control. A psychopath can imitate somebody who is like socially conventional where a sociopath has less ability to do that because they're like, they get angry and they will have outbursts and things like that. A psychopath will spend a long time deliberately manipulating people and remain calm when confronted and lie and just completely not have empathy or guilt or feel any loyalty towards anybody.

[Mitchell Halderson]

Right.

[Aaron]

And a lot of the times you'll see with psychopaths, they, they almost display a behavior of being withdrawn. And it's not a clear marker either way because we've seen both. But that is something to look for. And when you start to think about Chandler in that light, there are a lot of indicators that would suggest he's, he's more in line with that. And the, the soda comment, I bring that up because of it. Right. The ability to, to say that when you know what you're about to do, it just shows a lack of any emotion. You're about to kill your own mother. Yeah, it's, you know, that's not that anybody who's watching or listening to this is, has ever been in that position. Position. But for Chandler, he's concerned about soda in that moment.

[Stephanie Harlow]

And he's also concerned about getting caught for lying. So it's like, is this a real reason to kill your parents? Well, yeah. You're living at their house for free. You're able to have this lifestyle where you play video games non stop all day, every day, and you don't have to get a job and you don't have to be an adult and you don't have to take responsibility. But if your parents find out, all that comes crashing, crashing down, and you might get kicked out. You might have to actually get a job. So you're gonna have to, you know, pay your own rent and do all those things. And that's not the life that Chandler wants. So instead of being like, yeah, I'll take my, you know, take my accountability. I'll get a job. I'll be a real boy. He's like, nah, I'll just kill my parents.

[Aaron]

I don't know. The soda thing. Even though I basically said he's a psychopath, at this point, the soda thing could just be him just being horrible and at carrying this whole thing out. But who knows? I'm looking forward to part three. I want to know more about this case. A lot of you guys in the comments, and I wasn't familiar with this case. You weren't familiar with it, but apparently it's been covered by a lot of people. But I did see comments where they were saying, we're covering some angles that people haven't really thought about or heard anywhere else. And that's the point. So I think there's a bigger purpose to covering this story, not only for the people who have never heard of it before, like myself, but also, again, it gives us another book on, on the bookshelf where we can talk about this case from an educational perspective and apply it to future cases that we cover. Because unfortunately, this won't be the last time we meet someone like Chandler. And now we start to identify those profile traits that we can apply to future cases, maybe cases that aren't adjudicated yet. So I find it fascinating you'd compare

[Stephanie Harlow]

it to Joel Guy, but with Joel Guy, not that he had any better motive, because I don't think there's any good motive to kill your parents. But with Joel Guy, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be receiving money from my family's life insurance and I'm gonna have this. And I'm gonna have that and the houses being left to me and things like that. Whereas with Chandler, it really seemed less about that and more about. I just have to make sure nobody finds out about my lies. That's really what it ended up seeming like. So it's not really. It's the same, but not really such a.

[Aaron]

Such a deep hole that he's in right now. Yeah, yeah, he's in a deep hole, that's for sure. And it doesn't look like he's going to be able to get out of it. Positive note, a lot of you guys have been asking about merch. We had a small order come in. Those have been shipped out. If you've ordered it already, it's been shipped out. If you're looking to get it, we have another order coming in. You can just go to crimeweeklypodcast.com, find everything there, shout out to our patrons, shout out to the YouTube members. You guys, if you're on YouTube, you're seeing that we highlight you guys on the there as well. So any opportunity to be more involved with our community, whether it's our discussion boards on Patreon or bonus episodes or shout outs or monthly giveaways, or if you're just someone who wants ad free content on one of the audio platforms like Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you can go over to Apple. You can sign up for that. So we're trying to give options for everyone. Although I will always say this, it's not necessary. It's. I guess I would it call it a luxury. But you're going to still get the same content. You're going to still get the same coverage. But if you want to get more involved after we end each episode, those are the places to do it. And you can find it in the description box below if you're on YouTube and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever platform you use. Any final words, Stephanie?

[Stephanie Harlow]

No, that's it. We'll see you next week for the next part. And it gets, you know, you think it can't get any worse. It does.

[Aaron]

Ah, man. Well, looking forward to that. Always a pleasure, guys. We appreciate you being here. Everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you next week.

[Stephanie Harlow]

See you next week.

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