Bart & Krista Halderson | What Happened Inside the House (Part 3)

Summary

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Crime Weekly: Bart & Krista Halderson | What Happened Inside the House (Part 3)

Podcast Hosts: Stephanie Harlowe & Derrick Levasseur
Date: August 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deep-dive third installment covering the Bart and Krista Halderson case, Stephanie and Derrick break down the chilling details and investigative steps taken after the couple’s disappearance, focusing on the days leading up to and following their murders by their son, Chandler Halderson. The hosts meticulously analyze texts, timelines, forensic discoveries, and suspect psychology, providing expert insight into both the criminal behavior and the outstanding police work that unraveled Chandler’s web of lies.
Throughout, they bring their signature blend of empathy, sharp reasoning, and forensic knowledge, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of this disturbing case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chandler’s Interrogation and Arrest

• Initial Interrogation Reactions (03:52)
  • Chandler is arrested on July 8, 2021, initially for providing false information in a missing persons investigation—not for murder.
  • Officer Henriksen notes Chandler asks to "go back up and tell everything," but having invoked his right to a lawyer, Henriksen cannot question him.
  • Chandler responds to whether he feels a risk for self-harm with “I don’t feel bad about what I did,” interpreted as an indirect confession.
  • Derrick (04:14): "An admission of guilt after invoking his right to an attorney. ... I can already see a defense attorney salivating over this."
  • Stephanie: "Good thing they had plenty of other evidence."

2. Reconstructing the Timeline & Parental Discovery of Lies

• The Web of Deceit (07:47–12:07)
  • Chandler’s lies about jobs, college, and injuries are unraveling.
  • Bart and Krista, through emails and conversations, begin to confront Chandler—Bart even notes in a printed email that someone Chandler claimed to have spoken to “sounds just like Chaz on the phone.”
  • Texts exchanged between Krista and Chandler on June 30 suggest strained relations, with Krista expressing love and appreciation for Chandler even amidst suspicion.
  • Stephanie (11:11): "This was Chandler trying to be on his best behavior and cozy up to the parent who he knew had the softest of soft spots for him."
• The Final Showdown
  • On July 1st, a pivotal "MATC meeting" is scheduled, when Bart plans to accompany Chandler to Madison Area Technical College to confront the lies.
  • The hosts theorize Chandler uses stalling tactics, buying himself time before resorting to murder.

3. Premeditation, Motives, and Psychopathy

• Psychological Analysis (22:34)
  • Both hosts debate whether Chandler is a sociopath or psychopath and whether the murders were impulsive or long-contemplated.
  • Derrick (22:49): "I think he is a psychopath. ... He didn’t have a social environment that would create this."
  • Stephanie notes manipulative “love bombing” patterns toward his mother when facing exposure.

4. Forensic Evidence in the Halderson House

• Scene Breakdown (39:03–42:15)
  • Discovery of two freezers in the basement; a small chest freezer appears after police’s initial visit—cleaned, unplugged, with traces of human blood and cleaning products nearby.
  • Luminol testing and DNA results confirm blood from Bart and Krista throughout the basement, including distinctive swipe and footprint patterns.
  • Discovery of ballistic evidence (spent cartridges, bullet impact in the concrete) indicates Bart was shot from behind in the basement, likely with an SKS rifle.
  • Incriminating tools: cut ropes matched to Bart's torso, bloody axes and saws, and a detailed fracture match of duct tape linking the home to the site where remains were dumped.
  • Chandler’s chilling notes app list: “H₂O₂ lemon… clean the floor… move your upstairs…”

5. Attempted Body Disposal Details

• Failed Burning in the Fireplace (63:34–80:51)
  • Chandler attempted to destroy evidence by burning body parts in the living room fireplace.
  • Technical discussion of the “wick effect,” fat rendering, and how the fireplace glass broke due to Chandler’s amateurish efforts to burn human remains.
  • Investigators discover through architectural design that an ash pit below the fireplace collects debris—after dismantling the basement wall, they recover over 230 bone fragments (identified as Bart and Krista’s), as well as teeth and skull fragments.
  • Stephanie (77:29): “Chandler cut off his parents’ heads and tried to burn them in the fireplace.”

6. Interaction with Chandler’s Girlfriend, Cat

• Manipulation and Risk (84:32–96:50)
  • Chandler tries to minimize the risk of discovery when Cat sleeps over by creating a makeshift “couch fort” in the living room, limiting her mobility.
  • Stephanie posits this was likely to prevent Cat from wandering at night and stumbling on incriminating evidence, noting Cat was lucky to escape unharmed.
  • Chandler has Cat fetch cleaning supplies and ice—presumably to slow decomposition before he could dispose of the remains.
  • Notable Quote (90:50):
    • Cat (testifying): "He really likes his drinks cold."
  • Placement of foil-wrapped cell phones and driver’s licenses in shoes—a futile attempt to avoid tracking; all Alexa devices unplugged due to Chandler’s paranoia about being surveilled.

7. Disposal of Remains and Key Locations

• The River & The Farm (107:11–122:59)
  • Cat tracks Chandler’s whereabouts on Snapchat, noting he’s at their old swimming spot on the Wisconsin River when he claims to be running chores.
  • Searchers, led by law enforcement and DNR warden, uncover Krista’s remains (both legs) on a riverbank, in a location previously frequented by Chandler.
  • Bart’s torso had already been found on Cress’s farm (connected to Cat’s family).
  • Other remains presumed dumped in the river, likely never to be found due to the river’s notorious currents.

8. The Murder Weapon: SKS Rifle

• Weapon Acquisition (110:28–116:50)
  • Chandler’s online gaming friend, Andrew Smith, gifts him an SKS rifle and 480 rounds of ammunition; documentation and storage details described.
  • The gun and ammo are hidden in the basement; the rifle is not found until months after Chandler’s arrest.
  • Derrick (127:07): “He’s a gamer… I can see him being genuinely happy about the possession of the gun.”

9. Discussion of Chandler’s Psychology & Impulsivity

• Derrick and Stephanie agree Chandler seems impulsive. The plan, if any, for murder and coverup was rapidly thrown together after being cornered about his lies.
• Derrick (124:55):
  "There was definitely some planning… however, it wasn’t well thought out. I do feel like Chandler is an impulsive person. … The execution was probably in the last couple hours before actually killing Bart when he realized, I’m in a corner."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stephanie (01:03):
  “You got to find levity in the moments where you can. Otherwise, it’ll just eat you alive.”
• Derrick (49:06):
  “... the amount of blood that was observed under the luminal testing... would be too much for someone to survive without getting medical attention.”
• Stephanie (77:29):
  “Chandler cut off his parents’ heads and tried to burn them in the fireplace.”
• Derrick (97:39):
  “If she just made one wrong turn or asked the wrong question, she would no longer be with us. ... She is very lucky.”
• Stephanie (122:59):
  “We have remains being burned in the home fireplace, a torso found on the farm, legs found by the river—but where are the other remains? Where was the gun? ... That’s where we’re going to pick up in the fourth and final installment of this series.”
• Derrick (129:35):
  “A lot of the aftermath that we’re talking about that is disgusting and heinous, they were no longer with us to experience that.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Arrest & Booking Details / Chandler’s Confession: 03:52–04:27
• Texts and Family Dynamic Before Murders: 06:51–12:07
• Analysis of Soda Text and Timeline: 13:09–14:40
• Investigation into the Home – Clean-up Evidence: 39:03–42:15
• Forensic Fire & Bone Fragment Recovery: 63:34–80:51
• Cat’s Testimony & Survival: 84:32–96:50
• Chandler’s Whereabouts Spotted on Snapchat (River): 107:11–122:59
• Acquisition of the Murder Weapon: 110:28–116:50
• Analysis of Planning vs. Impulsivity: 124:55–129:39

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Overall Tone

The tone is a blend of darkly humorous banter, clinical investigation, and empathy for the victims and their family. Stephanie and Derrick intersperse expert commentary with layman’s explanations, making the intricate forensic and psychological topics accessible to all listeners.

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Next Episode Preview:
The conclusion of the series will cover Chandler’s post-murder behavior, discovery of more evidence, the whereabouts of the murder weapon, and a deeper look at his defense strategy in court.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

[B]

And I'm Derek Levasseur.

[A]

So today we are diving into the next part of the Bart and Krista Halderson case.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

AKA Dumbest criminal ever. Chandler Halderson.

[B]

But that's a title that a lot of people are going for. But he's up there. And I will say that video. I have watched that video of him going to get surveillance or do some surveillance on the surveillance around his house. I have watched that video. No word of a lie, probably 30 times. It's still as funny as it was the first time I watched it. Just his reactions in those moments where he's realizing he's completely screwed. I know this isn't a funny situation, but as I always say, you got to find levity in the moments where you can. Otherwise, it'll just eat you alive. And that video, just compartmentalizing it, is just absolutely hilarious.

[A]

And then this is the same day, of course, that he gets picked up by the police.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Driven to the police station. And you got the interrogation through his interrogation. Right. And then. And then after that, on the evening of July 8, 2021, Chandler Halderson was placed under arrest and taken into custody. Now, at this point, they cannot arrest him for murder, et cetera. They don't know enough. But he was being arrested for providing false information regarding a missing person's investigation. Right. They have Bart's torso on Chris's Cres's farm. Right. They have that. And so they know. Obviously, they know, like, dude's lying about everything. But the investigation hasn't. They haven't even identified Bart's torso yet. Right. Because it's going to take some time. So they want to arrest Chandler. So they have him because they know as well as you and I do. I mean, after I went to the. The around the neighborhood and found out about all the surveillance they had, I probably would have been gone at that point. Like, I would not been home when the police showed up to bring me into the police station. So they know as well as you and I do that if they let him go at this point, he may not be around anymore.

[B]

Especially after that line of questioning.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. So as Chandler's being walked towards booking, he told Detective Henriksen that he wanted to go back up and tell him everything. And Henriksen informed Chandler. Well, you asked for a lawyer. And since you asked for a lawyer, I am unable to speak to you regarding your missing parents at this point without the lawyer present. So while the booking paperwork was being completed Chandler asked Detective Henriksen, what was different? Right. What's different from the previous day when you guys were at my house and you talked to me and, and today when you talked to me and now I'm being arrested. And Chandler was told that the police had found something. And Detective Henriksen said, at this point, Chandler's eyes got very wide and he made a comment along the lines of, you don't know the whole story, which, I mean, yes, you do, Chandler, but it doesn't really matter. Your father's torso was found in. In a forest. So what. What kind of whole story is really going to add any context to that that doesn't make you look like a monster? And then during the booking questionnaire, Detective Henriksen asked Chandler if he was feeling like he might want to self harm. And Chandler's response to this question was that he didn't feel bad about what he did. Right. So during the booking questionnair questions are going to be asked. They have to ask, do you feel like you might try to hurt yourself? And Chandler's response to that, instead of saying yes or no, was, I don't feel bad about what I did. Which I think basically means like, no, why would I hurt myself? I don't feel bad about what I did.

[B]

Yeah. An admission of guilt after invoking his right to an attorney. So this is a little bit of a slippery slope here, right, where detective rightfully says, I can't ask any more questions. But in. In response to a question that, like, you just said he's supposed to ask, he basically confesses in an indirect way, like, I don't feel guilty about what happened. So it's something you got to put in there. But I can already see a defense attorney salivating over this.

[A]

And, well, good thing they had plenty of other evidence.

[B]

Of course. Of course. But this right here is the first, from the way you're describing it to us, the first time, where he's acknowledging that he's responsible for what happened to his parents. So it's significant.

[A]

And I mean, throughout the whole trial, I'm honestly sitting here like, what is. What is. What are we doing here? Basically, like, how did we get to the point where the trial happened? Because what could Chandler's defense possibly be? Like, he can't possibly be saying, I didn't do this. In fact, pretty much that was his defense. But anyways, let's focus on the timeline between July 1 and July 8 of 2021. And we're actually going to converge several different timelines in an effort to piece together what actually happened throughout those days and what actually happened to Bart and Krista Halderson? Because, as you know, Chandler claims he doesn't know because he didn't do anything. So he's never going to fill in those gaps for us. All right, so July 1st. No. So, July 1st, 2021. This is a Thursday. Okay. Chandler was up early on this Thursday, texting his girlfriend Cat, asking her how she had slept. Now, Cat told Chandler, I slept good. And then she asked, what about you? At 7:26am Chandler responded, quote, I hardly slept, end quote. Cat told Chandler, I'm sorry, you know, why did you not sleep well? And Chandler replied, quote, idk, I don't know. For anyone who doesn't know, Idk. Yeah, I got it. Stuff hasn't really been going well for me lately, so I'm trying to plan for the next thing to me over, end quote. Now, of course, Chandler could have been talking about his fake job at American Family Insurance, not sending him a paycheck, right? He's saying things aren't going well. Maybe my job, my fake job's not sending me a paycheck. He could have been talking about the battle he'd been having with Madison Technical College for over a year to get a simple copy of his transcripts. He could have even been talking about his fake injury, which had left him in a neck brace with all sorts of alleged permanent damage to his legs and his nerves and his. His brain. Or he could have been talking about a text he had received from his father two days earlier on June 29. A text that said, I talked to Omar Job. A text that Bart meant to communicate that he'd figured out. All the people that he and Chandler had been communicating with over the past few from American Family Insurance and Madison College were never employed at those places. Now, I personally think Bart sent that text because he wanted Chandler to know he'd figured out that all of those people were, in fact, Chandler.

[B]

I agree with you.

[A]

Now, there's no evidence that Chandler even knew who Omar Jobe was, since he wasn't actually a student at the college. However, just as Bart had perused the staff list on the college website, Chandler could have done the same. After receiving his father's text, he could have typed in Omar Job, Madison Area Technical College, and figured out within a few seconds that Omar Job was actually employed at matc. In fact, he was the enrollment coordinator. So it is fair to assume that by June 29, Chandler knew the gig was up and he was running out of time. Oddly enough, after Bart And Krista Halderson disappeared. And after Chandler was arrested, when police went through the Halderson home searching for evidence, they found a printed out email on Bart Halderson's desk. Now, it seemed Bart did this with a lot of email. And this is a very boomer thing to do, by the way. Cause my mom does the same thing.

[B]

Shots fired.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I mean, it's like, I know that all the emails are there in my inbox, but this one's important and I need to remember it. So she'll print the email out and then she'll make notes, like with a pen on the email and keep it on her desk. So instead of starring it in the inbox, she just prints it and keeps it on the desk. And Bart seemed to do this with emails he felt were important that he had to follow up on. Now, this email that Bart printed had been sent by Bart in August of 2020 to Krista. And it basically let her know where they were with everything. You know, hey. Chandler had talked to someone at MATC named Daniel Spieth. He summarized to Krista what they had learned from Daniel so far. He typed Daniel Spieth's phone number into the email and also stated, quote, he sounds just like Chaz on the phone. End quote. Uh, so In August of 2020, Bart obviously talked to Daniel Spieth, quote, unquote, who was probably Chandler.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And he's saying to his wife, this guy Daniel sounds just like our son Chandler on the phone. Now, Daniel's number was the same number as a burner phone the police would find in a desk drawer in Chandler Halderson's bedroom. So as you mentioned last week, and we talked about this, there were likely in person conversations between Chandler and his father, bart, after that June 29th text about Omar Jobe. There were also probably conversations about the situation between Bart and his wife, Krista Halderson. And I have no doubt that both Bart and Krista at some point sat Chandler down and asked him to explain himself. Right. We would assume something like that happened.

[B]

Yeah. This didn't just all happen because of a couple texts or emails. There was a deeper conversation where at some point, Chandler realized the jig was up. Parents knew what was going on.

[A]

And I was really focused on that. Because they don't talk a lot about it in the trial.

[B]

Well, I mean, it really can't.

[A]

Because they can't.

[C]

Right.

[B]

The only people who could tell you that are dead.

[A]

But I looked at things and I saw that on June 30th at 7:22am so the day after the Omar job text, Krista texted Chandler, quote, thanks for waving. You made my day, end quote. And Chandler wrote back, no problem. And then Krista texted again, quote, I love you lots, end quote. So this would have been sent right around the time that Krista was leaving for work in the morning. She's probably referring to Chandler waving to her through the window as she left, which she was happy about.

[B]

Let's dive into that a little. Let's unpack it. Like this is, this would be potentially after maybe a heated discussion, maybe a

[A]

conversation because, or at least Bart telling Krista, I found this out. Something's going on. He hasn't been honest with us. Right.

[B]

Well, the reason I say it, and I could be looking too deep into this, like, it's not a big deal for your child to wave to you goodbye when you're leaving. To me, it's more of an acknowledgment, like, we're okay.

[A]

Unless that's not a common thing for Chandler to do.

[B]

It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be. But, but could it be a waving of like, hey, I know things are rough right now. Love you. Like, waving goodbye, like, hey, an acknowledgement that I'm not ignoring you and her to. So for her to bring that up and say, hey, thanks for waving, you know, love you lots. I could be completely wrong on this, but it's almost like, hey, that's their, their way of being like, I know things are bad right now. I know we're, you know, having some issues and we had a, A, a difficult conversation, but thank you for waving and I love you a lot.

[A]

I think that this was Chandler trying to be on his best behavior and cozy up to the parent who he knew had the softest of soft spots for him. Right. He was, he was a mama's boy. She still called him my baby. Even though he's a grown ass man. He knew. All right, if I'm dealing with Bart and Krista, Bart is not going to give me any leeway. I need to get my mother on my side and I need to pretend to be the most sweet, doting son and do the things, I'm sorry, manipulative in a way of like, oh, I'm gonna wave to her and, and I'm gonna say goodbye to her. And I mean, it made her so happy. Obviously she was like, it made my day. So he's doing things he wouldn't ordinarily do and she's like, oh, it's so sweet. My little Baby, like, I have to have his side when. When it comes down to a discussion with him and his father and myself, that's what I think he was doing.

[B]

Possible. I mean, unfortunately, we'll never know. There was. There's so many things where we're trying to read between the lines because we don't know the exact chain of events. Obviously, you're breaking it down for us as much as you can, but to get inside the head of Chandler, it's tough. I mean, we talked about psychopath versus sociopath last week, and if that's what we're dealing with here, which we both believe that we are, it's hard to rationalize the irrational. I will say one more thing. I don't know why I'm thinking about this now, but I don't think I talked to you about this yet. Last night, which would have been Sunday night, I was perusing our Patreon. I was in the discussion boards, as I often am. And last week, we had talked about the whole soda thing and trying to get into Chandler's head.

[A]

Yeah, we did talk about. On our Patreon Live.

[B]

Yeah, we did. We did. And. And I will say there was a comment from someone in the. In the discussion board for this particular case, and I thought it was interesting, and I wanted to get your opinion on it. They believe, and I think they could be right, where we talk about the soda and the fact that, like, how are you thinking about soda after this whole thing? But is it possible that he asked her to get soda on the way home because he was trying to buy more time?

[A]

So we had just talked about this Friday on our. On our Patreon Live. And I said, yes, the prosecution has used the can you stop and get soda? Text saying Chandler was trying to buy more time. And that could be true. Yeah, I think that was true. But also, Chris stops. I think he just was a horrible person. I think he also. It was like a. It was a double kind of motive. Like. But also, I'll have soda. Right? So. Because how much time is stopping and buying soda really buying? She stopped at a. At the gas station or, like, the convenience store, which was right next to her work. She could walk to that place. She would walk there and get a sandwich every day for lunch. So at the most to walk in and buy some soda, check out, and then get back in the car, you're buying five, eight minutes. Not a ton of time bought. Okay, fair. I also think he just wanted soda.

[B]

Well, he also maybe has to drive a little bit out of the way you're right, I mean, maybe 10, 15 minutes max.

[A]

No, she didn't have to drive out of the way. Cause the place was right next to her work fair. So. No. So I mean, probably I just thought

[B]

it was a good point. I was like, you know, I thought there was more, some strategy to this and maybe that's what it was where a combination of being parched and also needing as much time as possible to clean up.

[A]

I guess when you're in this situation, even a couple minutes of extra time is a lot is time bought. But still, it wouldn't buy all that much time. If he wanted to buy time, he may have given her a more in depth kind of requirement quest that would have her driving out of her way.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't want to get too far ahead because you may give us, you may shed light on this, but there's also a possibility that he was done cleaning up, but he was also trying to. If he had already made the decision to kill Krista, he was trying to set up an environment where she would come in, her guard would be down, it would allow him to get the jump on her as well. But I got a lot of opinions on that as well without knowing the details. So we'll keep it going. But shout out to the Patreon chat for the, the suggestions because some of them are good. Some of them are really good.

[A]

Well, so now we're still on June 30th, right. So Krista leaves for work. Thank you so much for waving. It made my day. Chandler's like, no problem. She's like, I love you lots. Right. This is Krista saying, I think things aren't ideal, but yes, I still love you.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And this is Chandler. Like, I better make sure I'm on mommy's good side because daddy's really mad at me. So at 5:19pm after returning home from work, Krista texted Chandler again. Quote, come see us when you're done, end quote. And I believe this text was Krista summoning Chandler downstairs to the conversation he would have with both of his parents about what had been going on. He was most likely in his room at this point, hiding from his father and playing video games because we know he ain't going to school and we know he doesn't have a job. And then when Krista got home from work, Bart was probably like, your son's been hiding from me all day. Can you please get him to get his ass down here because we have to talk about, about this. And so then Krista and Bart decided it was time to have the intervention, have the conversation, get to the bottom of everything. Now, obviously, I don't know how this conversation went or what Chandler said to his parents, but would you agree that her texting at 5:19pm after she get home, she gets home from work. When you have a second, when you're done, come down and see us. This is the conversation that's going to happen. Right.

[B]

I think Bart was waiting for Krista to get home and him knowing that he has a better, you know, Krista has a better relationship, she makes the text and. But even this tells me, like, the relationship between them was, was odd because you're texting him to come downstairs. I mean, this house was big. It wasn't that big.

[A]

I mean, I, I can't. I can't even judge her for that. My son's 14. He plays video games in his room. And. And sometimes I'd be like, I'm ordering a pizza. And he'll be like, okay. And he's like, ordering a pizza stuff. And the pizza gets there and I text him and I'm like, the food's here. You know, like, come down.

[B]

Yeah. Ordering a pizza. Like, it very. Like something that's trivial. Right. But this is a big. This is a big conversation you're about to have. Hey, when you get a second, come downstairs again.

[A]

Listen, she doesn't want to. She doesn't want to put pressure on him. She doesn't want to stress him out. Yes. Now this is. She babied him. She doesn't want to stress him out. She doesn't want him to, you know,

[B]

come downstairs to lock his door.

[A]

Yeah. Because apparently, like, he would retreat to his room. He was very, like, private about his room. He didn't like people going in there. It was kind of his, like, private space that he would have to be requested to leave and join the rest of the family in the house.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. But I do agree with you. And there might have even been some hints prior to that which would explain the waving and I love you lots. Like, maybe there was some tension within the house that wasn't directly being addressed, but everyone under that roof knew this was coming to a head. And this is, this is the text where, hey, let's finally confront this.

[A]

Yeah. You know, they were sitting in the kitchen, at the kitchen table, waiting for her to come down with all the proof in front of them. Right.

[B]

I'm sure Bart was already indirectly. If he hadn't said it right out, like, his mannerisms, his behavior was Like, I'm pissed off, you know?

[A]

Yeah. You know, Chandler walked in there and Bart was like, he's got the whole board up with all the evidence tacked to it. He's got the times, he's got the dates, he's got everything. So now, like I said, I don't know how the conversation went, what Chandler said to his parents, what they said to him, but it appears that he bought himself some time again. And the reason I believe that is because we have Bart entering into his outlook calendar on July 1st at 3pm as MATC. As in a meeting with C.H. chandler at MATC on July 1st at 3pm Additionally, the next day, July 1st, Christa was texting Chandler in a normal and loving way at 1:38pm Christa said, quote, hope things are going well, thinking about you, end quote. And Chandler wrote back, quote, going well, thanks, end quote. Because Krista's at work, Bart and Chandler are at home. So I think this was Krista asking if things were going well with Bart. Like, is everything okay with you boys? Like, everything.

[B]

Clearly, there was a lot more of a heated discussion between those two.

[A]

Like, is everything going well? Because you have this meeting coming up at MATC today. Are you ready for that kind of thing?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I believe that Chandler continued to deny everything during this conversation with his parents on June 30th. I think he said, listen, this is a huge misunderstanding. I don't even know what this Omar job guy is talking about. He must be new. There must be something going on here. Listen, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to the college tomorrow and on July 1st, and I'm going to prove that I am right and this guy's wrong, and we're gonna figure everything out. There has to be some mistake. We just need to figure out why this mistake happened and how to fix it. So not realizing that being murdered was a possible outcome, Bart agreed and was like, okay, yeah, let's go. Let's go, Chandler. Let's go to MATC on July 1st.

[B]

Oh, what does he have to lose? If anything, he's going to prove his point exactly.

[A]

What's the worst that could happen, right? Either.

[B]

Or maybe. Maybe Bart says, like, oh, you're. That's not what happened. Well, let's go to the school and. And Chandler's like, sure, let's do it.

[A]

I'm on your side.

[B]

And he's like, perfect, let's do it. I'm gonna put the final nail in your coffin right here by bringing you to the school, and I want you to lie to my face in front of them.

[A]

I honestly think I can see that Chandler that suggested it because there was no official meeting with matc, and I feel like Bart would have, like, made sure to call and make sure that someone at the college was ready to talk. So I think Chandler was like, we're going to go in. We're going to talk to them, or Bart pulled that.

[B]

Let's just show up.

[A]

Yeah. Like you said, though, what's the worst that could happen? Either Chandler's right and there is some mistake and everything he had been saying was true, which at that point, that's. That's great, you know, for everybody. Or. Or Chandler would be backed into a corner, faced with all of his lies and unable to continue lying to get himself out of trouble. Either way, all would be known and all would be resolved by 3pm on July 1st. And genuinely, I think Bart knew that Chandler was.

[D]

Of course you did.

[A]

Of course I think he was. He was calling his bluff.

[B]

Didn't want to believe it, but he knew he was right.

[A]

But Bart's also not thinking like, oh, Chandler's buying himself another day. Right. He doesn't. He doesn't understand that while Bart's calling Chandler's bluff, Chandler's just buying another day to plan how he would resolve this situation without ever having to admit that he's a pathological liar, a loser, and a leech. Bart doesn't realize. He's like, okay, Chandler, let's go to the school. And then finally, you won't be able to get to wriggle out of this anymore. And Chandler's like, I'm going to kill my parents. We're never going to that school.

[B]

Yeah. You think at that point he had already made that decision?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. I think. I mean, we'll never know.

[A]

He knew they were never gonna go to that school.

[B]

No, they. They weren't gonna go to the school. Maybe that is the point where he made the decision. Or again, like he often did, even in that interrogation, he's just telling another lie to buy him a little bit more time. And then shortly after this conversation where he's now challenged his dad and said, let's go to the school tomorrow, he's sitting up in his room realizing there's no way that this gets played out and I win. So the only option here is to kill them both.

[A]

I think that's what. Yeah. He was like, well, let's go to the school.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

And then he gets up to his

[A]

throat, and then he's Thinking, okay, now what do I do next?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then he was like, there is no move.

[B]

There is no move. I'm out of move.

[A]

I mean, he could have just, like, I don't know, told the truth, been faced with the truth and been like, yeah, I suck. I suck as a human.

[B]

That would be a normal person's reaction though, right? Like, we're dealing with a psychopath. So this is someone who's a pathological,

[A]

I think a sociopath, like I said. But yeah, because a psychopath, like I said, there's. You're kind of born that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe he's a psych. I don't know.

[B]

I think he is a psychopath.

[A]

Yeah. Because there's no reason.

[B]

No. He didn't have a social environment that would create this. He had good, loving parents. And I think, yeah, they enabled some of the behavior. But I think even though it wasn't detected, he's. This is probably something that's been with

[A]

him since birth, which is why I think when he was like, waving at his mom. See, a psychopath wouldn't do that unless there was a personal motive of gain for them because they don't have, like, attachments to people. They don't care about people.

[B]

I hear you, but there's no, like, template for these guys. Right. They're all a little unique, a little different. That's why we're constantly learning by covering these cases. It's not to highlight.

[A]

Sociopath are a little unique and different and can form attachments to, like, specific people. But they say psychopaths don't have any actual care for anyone. It doesn't matter. So, yeah, there's a.

[B]

There's a world to say that he didn't have any attachment even to her. He just used her.

[A]

More obviously he didn't killed her.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. So he was. The only time he showed or displayed any emotion was for some motive that he had something that he needed or wanted.

[A]

Yes. Which is like, oh, let me just make my mom think that I love her.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So she's nice when we have this conversation when she gets home tonight. Yeah. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by the Ladder app. And let me take a guess. You have a folder saved with all your Instagram workouts and it's right on your phone and you fully intend to use it, but let's be honest, you never do.

[A]

Yeah. And then it sat there untouched, next to a recipe for High protein pancakes I also never made.

[B]

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[A]

That actually matters though. Not that he's good looking, but that there's strength training that has real progressive programming. That that's what matters. Because otherwise you're just walking into the gym like, I guess I'm here now. What do I do?

[B]

I always wondered why I wasn't making progress. And with the Latter Hours app, each week builds on the last through structured training blocks. So you're not just moving around, you're actually training with intention and you're moving forward.

[A]

Which sounds much better than my usual approach of vibes and confusion.

[B]

Yeah, that's not a plan.

[A]

It is not. But it is honest. So the favorite thing for me about the ladder app is that it's like having a personal trainer in your headphones. It actually is. You have a personal trainer in your headphones. So the in ear coaching walks you through every set with form cues, reminders and motivation. I like that because the second I have to think too much, suddenly I'm checking a text, reading, refilling my water, wandering away and the workout has spiritually ended.

[B]

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[A]

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[D]

Join.

[A]

Okay, so here we are. It's the morning of July 1, the day of the MATC meeting and Krista Halderson has left for work. It's just Chandler and his father at home. Well, she hasn't left for work yet. Right when, when Chandler's texting his girlfriend Cat early on the morning of July 1, telling her he didn't sleep well because things haven't been going great for him. I believe he was talking about his parents finally unwinding his web of lies and him believing there's no other way out it than to kill them both. This is when I got to figure

[B]

out how to he's a victim.

[A]

I got to figure out how to

[B]

make this closing in on him because everyone's starting to untangle his web of lies.

[A]

So three minutes after Chandler sent that message to Cat, his mother Krista in her Volvo left for work at 7:30am and at 7:50am Chandler texted Cat again, quote, I just had a great future planned and it's falling apart, end quote. Right.

[B]

I think there's truth in that statement as well.

[A]

Well, Kat thinks he's, he, she's like, what do you mean? You know, you're like, your future's not falling apart. You're moving to Florida, you got this great job at SpaceX. You know, it's going to be okay. Like we have, we have everything going for us still.

[B]

He knows that's not true.

[A]

Exactly. And Chandler responded, quote, will you leave me even if it doesn't work? Worded bad but you understand, end quote. And Kat told Chandler, I'm not going to leave you. She said, quote, Florida would be so DOP and nice but I'm not dating you for money. I love you tons. End quote. I could, I can't imagine why she was dating him. Honestly. He just, he sounds like he sucked in every way possible.

[B]

Yeah, I'll refrain from saying anything. I mean we did see Kat's interview and you guys in the comments had a lot of opinions on that, on that interview. I'll leave them in the comments if you want to go watch last week's episode.

[A]

But like was the sex good? I like, is that what it. Cause sometimes I've been thinking about this a lot because I hear her in the interview. She's like, yeah, he's weird. He wears long sleeve shirts and he loves his socks and he's always fallen all over the place and like, yeah, he doesn't really know how to express emotion. And he seems like he has no emotion and he's constantly like, now he's got all these health issues. It's like, what were you with him for? He seems like he sucked. But like, was the sex good? Because sometimes I don't think it was. I, I can't imagine that it was,

[B]

but I don't think it was. I don't think it was. I think, think I'm going to try to be kind here because Katt didn't do anything wrong. As far as the actual crime, what I will say is that I'm going to try to be really respectful. I say this. Chandler was immature and maybe acted more like a 12 year old than his actual age. And in that interview I saw a lot of immaturity with, with Cat as well. So maybe they were more alike in that sense where they kind of found some commonalities. But I don't think the relationship was that, was that deep. We'll just put that way. I think it was more surface level. Yeah, maybe some sex in there. But I feel like overall, you know, she had some, some growing up to do as well. And maybe now in hindsight she would acknowledge that as well after seeing, she has to after watching that interview, if she watched it now have some points where she said, yeah, I, it didn't, it didn't come off great.

[A]

Well, I think this happens with a lot of, of girls and, and young women where it's like, oh, he needs so much. Like he needs constant reassuring and he needs constant taking. It's like I can fix him kind of thing. Like he has so much potential and he's so smart and he has all these opportunities. If I could just teach him to be a man, he would be a great man.

[B]

You know, even if that's true. And then I'll get off this horse to think about the context of what she was there for and her kind of flippant behavior toward it where it's like joking and all this stuff. I found it extremely disrespectful. I'll just say that outright. You know, they're looking for two missing adults at that point.

[A]

And you'll see her testifying during the trial and you'll see a very different Cat.

[B]

Good.

[A]

I can't just, I just look in the way and they're like, what's this weird thing about Chandler? And she's like, no, this is just how he is. You know. And like it seems like all he did and all he wanted to do was play video games and Be weird and feel sorry for himself and be a victim. And I just can't imagine that must have been a boring relationship. What was your benefit in being in this relationship?

[B]

So to each their own man, I don't know.

[A]

So Cat tells Chandler, no, I am not with you for money. I love you. You. It's okay. Chandler replied, quote, I love you tons too, by the way. I'm not giving up. I'm just worried. End quote. Okay, so by 8am that morning, Cat's on her way to work. She and Chandler were sending messages back and forth here and there. At 1:02pm, Cat texted Chandler that her mom had given the okay for them to hang out all weekend. And she told him to, quote, convince his parents hard. End quote. And Chandler wrote back a minute later, quote, I overheard that they might go to the cabin with their friends, but idk, I don't know. And quote. Now according to Cat, Chandler had been on lock for several weeks and his parents were not letting him see her all that much. And so they had planned to spend the entire weekend, that 4th of July weekend together. And so she wanted him to convince his parents to allow it. Cuz remember, he's been punished for two weeks even though he made that up. Now Chandler was telling Cat that he overheard Bart and Krista discussing how they might be going to the cabin all weekend with friends. But according to Cat's testimony, she had been under the impression for a week or so that Bart and Krista were going going to the cabin even before this. And that was because she and Chandler had been kept apart for so long and she was getting frustrated by it.

[D]

A message from you? To be honest, it's getting to the point where I want to text your mom directly. What was this about on June 30, 3:18 in the afternoon,

[C]

about him being grounded and not being able to see me or hang out.

[D]

Were you wanting to see see him?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And what did he tell you about whether he could see you or not?

[C]

He couldn't because I wasn't allowed over.

[D]

And what does he say?

[C]

This weekend will be great.

[D]

That weekend was the Fourth of July weekend coming up, right?

[C]

Correct.

[D]

And then on June 30, you send this message next. What does that say?

[C]

We're not going to the cabin. Right.

[D]

So in the realm of messages, where the cabin. The first time the jury says seen that, how did this come up? Or what was going on where you sent this message?

[C]

I was under the impression that Mr. And Mrs. Halderson were going up to the cabin for the Fourth of July weekend.

[D]

Was that conversations or, like, over the phone or in person you'd had with Chandler?

[C]

Or was that over the phone?

[D]

Okay, and you ask, we're not going to the cabin, are we? What does Chandler say?

[C]

No.

[A]

So, Derek, this is what makes me wonder if there was more premeditation involved in this than we think. Like, it was more than just him waking up on July 1st and being like. Like that I'm supposed to go to college today with my dad. He's going to find out. Because by June 30, which by the testimony, we kind of think that at least a few days before June 30, Cat's under the impression that Bart and Krista are going to the cabin. But we know they were never going to the cabin. So leading up to June 30, at least for a few days, Chandler had been telling Cat that there was a possibility his parents were going to the cabin.

[B]

Yeah, I think the, the actual plan or the, the decision to kill his parents may have been confirmed in his brain within the, you know, leading up to the conversations that he was having with his parents, knowing that there was really no way out. But I do think there had been ideations of killing his parents way before that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That this was something that he may have been thinking about for months, maybe years.

[A]

Yes. Like, it was a logical thing to him. Like, well, if there's nothing else I can do do, then I can do this.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think that there was, there was something there prior to the, the final decision that. Yep, I'm finally doing it. I think he had thought about it probably on. On multiple occasions.

[A]

Yeah. So at some point on June 30 or in the few days before, Chandler had told Cat that his parents were going to the cabin. And it was Cat's belief that they, she and Chandler would have unobstructed access to each other all weekend, and they would pretty much be spending the whole weekend together to make up for lost time, because they hadn't been alone, allowed to see each other that much in the previous two weeks. Now, at 2:10pm about an hour after this text exchange, Chandler received a text message from his father. Bart, I'm ready whenever you are. Okay. Now, it's believed that this was Bart letting Chandler know he was ready for this event at 3pm in his calendar labeled Chaz Matc. I think that Bart believed the meeting would be in person at the MATC campus, and he was trying to get Chandler ready to leave the house. House. So Chandler wasn't messing around, not coming out of his room. And so they get in the car and drive there. Now, the campus, I looked it up. It's about a 15 minute drive from the Halderson home. And this was a meeting that Bart had been waiting for for almost two years. He probably wanted to make sure that Chandler didn't pull anything to delay or make them late, I don't know, like falling down the stairs again. So he's trying to give Chandler enough time to fall down the stairs and, you know, slip around in his socks so that even if that happens, he can still pull them up and be like, all right, don't worry, we have enough time. We can get there now. From that point, Bart Halderson never sent another text and all activity on his phone ceased from 3pm on. And the reason they say from 3pm on is basically because the, the kind of data capture happens on the hour every hour. So it would kind of show everything that happened after 3pm and nothing happened after 3pm but they pretty much think that text from Bart was one of the last things he ever did on his phone at 2:10. So then at 3:19pm this is when Chandler texted his mother and he said, dad's phone died, right? And he said, you know, text me if you need anything. And then he asked her to stop and get some soda on the way home from work. Now here's why I say that the soda stop did not take up much time because Krista gets out of work at around 5 and she got home from work at 5:13pm the neighborhood security cameras captured her car driving in and her getting home. And two minutes before that, Chandler made a list in the notes app of his iPhone. Weekend chores. H202 lemon door handles. Move your upstairs, Get a job, clean the floor. Now, no one besides Chandler could possibly know exactly what happened that day inside the Halderson home. But based on evidence and forensics, we can try to piece it together, which is what we're doing. So the police and prosecution believe that at some point after Bart sent his final text, he found himself in the basement of the house. Now, the Halterson basement was divided down the middle into two distinct spaces. The more finished south side and then the unfinished, like, utility area on the north side.

[B]

This is in the basement, not the

[A]

house itself in the basement. So.

[B]

So you got like a partially finished basement.

[A]

Yeah. So when the police gathered evidence in the home and went down into the basement, they went down the basement stairs. They noted that to their right when they go down the Stairs was a small, like, standalone freezer. So when I say a small standalone freezer, I mean like a chest, not a standup freezer or refrigerator freezer combo. Yeah, there's also a standup freezer also. That's kind of like a larger one, but then there's this chest, this smaller chest. And there were a lot of things that stood out to them about this freezer. First off of all, it had not been there when the police had visited Chandler at home on the night of July 7 after he'd reported his parents missing. Secondly, it was unplugged and open and placed directly in front of a large shelf that contained some laundry detergent, some Dawn Power Wash, which is like a dish spray, and some carpet cleaner. Now, the crime scene team felt that it was a weird place to put a freezer in the middle of the floor, in. In the way of the storage shelf behind it. And even though the freezer was open and unplugged, they noticed there was some fluid in the bottom of it, and it was very clean inside. But there was, like, a little water at the bottom, and the drain plug on the inside and the drain plug on the outside were not in place, you know. So this is where you would pull the plug to let any water.

[B]

Yeah, the water come out.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Now, like I said, there's also another freezer, this one bigger flush with the wall, plugged in. When they opened that, it was full of food, working fine. So the team processing the scene realized. Realized that they had not been made aware of two freezers in the basement. So they contacted the lead detectives who'd been at the Halderson home on July 7, and they were informed that the smaller freezer had not been there that day. So then swabs were taken from the bottom drain of the freezer and tested positive for human blood. Additionally, an empty bottle of hydrogen peroxide was also collected from the shelving unit behind that small freezer. And during the trial, it's funny because, remember, I'm like, why are we having a trial? Chandler's defense team has nothing to say. Whenever they'd cross examine, their cross examination last, like, three minutes. And it was embarrassing. So during the trial, Chandler's defense attorney asked the detective, like, why did you choose to take that bottle of hydrogen peroxide, of all things? And the detective was like, well, first of all, the hydrogen peroxide was out of place. Like, there were some cleaning supplies there. But there was. There was, like, several bottles of one thing. There was, like, five bottles of Dawn Power Wash and several you know, containers of laundry pot pods. And all of these bottles and containers were full or mostly full. So to see an empty bottle of hydrogen peroxide on the shelf, which wouldn't really be considered a cleaning product. It's more like a medicine product you'd see with first aid stuff.

[B]

Although I will say I use hydrogen peroxide on my carpets. But that's a side story.

[A]

That's interesting. He's like, well, basically, he's like, it just stood out to me. It was empty. I didn't really think it belonged with cleaning products. And he's like. And also, hey, I've been doing this long enough to know. Know that people use hydrogen peroxide to clean up blood, right?

[B]

That it gets out urine stains, blood stains, absolute hydrogen peroxide and ammonia. Little tip for you guys.

[A]

And this isn't like a big, like industrial size bottle of hydrogen peroxide. It's like a normal one you would get with the band aids and stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And what was in Chandler's notes app? What was the first Clean the floor? Well, no, what was the first item in his notes app?

[B]

It was a get a job, Bob.

[A]

H2O2 lemon.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's H2O2?

[B]

Peroxide.

[A]

Hydrogen peroxide. Right. So obviously this is something that, you know, the police are putting together. Hydrogen peroxide used to clean blood. It's an empty bottle. I'm going to take it. And they found plenty of blood in the basement. They sprayed luminol on both sides of the basement, and both sides lit up. The luminol lit up. Visible footwear impressions stamped into the bl. Blood on the floor. And the floor showed blood tracking pooling and dripping patterns. This led to the belief that Chandler had killed both of his parents in the basement. He had dismembered them in the basement, and he had attempted to clean up afterwards because not only do you see him walking through the blood, but you see swiping patterns. We've talked about this before. Looks like he's trying to clean it up now. Because luminol reacts to both blood and other things like cleaning agents. Y. They did another test that was performed to confirm that there was human blood on the floor. And then they DNA tested that blood. And that blood belonged to both Bart and Krista Halderson.

[B]

Yeah, we see it all the time. We've seen it on television shows, too. Sometimes they'll actually put bleach or something down to create the. The reaction that you would see with luminol because it gives you a really strong reaction. But it seems like this. They. They. They followed it step by step, exactly what you're supposed to do. It's not enough just to get the positive luminol test test. You then have to confirm that that luminal test A is not a cleaning agent or not just a cleaning agent, but also to have it come back to the DNA of the people that are currently missing. That's what we would like to call the smoking gun. That's. That's a slam dunk.

[A]

Yeah. The police have to be very careful with this, especially in their initial reports. You'll always see them say, we saw a blood like substance. We saw a blood like. Cause they can't call it blood until it's been tested forensically for blood.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And then also they can take it a step further. Maybe they did here, maybe they didn't. But you bring in experts in that field and you say, hey, hey, not only was this confirmed to be blood from our victims, but also the amount of blood that was observed under the luminal testing, it would be too much for someone to survive without getting medical attention.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, we saw that with Jennifer Doulos. We saw that also with Brandy Hall. Brandy hall, remember, in the Doulos was

[B]

a big one where they had all the blood inside the house as well. Where it's like, listen, unless she received medical attention immediately, she would not have survived these injuries.

[A]

Well, I mean, at this point, Derek, they've got Bart Holderson's torso. So I think that they didn't. They probably didn't need to take that step. But.

[B]

But everything you're saying there makes total sense where somehow we may never know. He convinced Bart to come down to the basement and probably did the same with Krista. Hey, listen, dad fell down the stairs. Something happened, you know, it wouldn't be hard to get him to go down there.

[A]

Well, here's the thing. It's very interesting. I like listening to the detectives that processed the scene as far as, like, CSI goes, because they're looking. I love it. Because the. One of the detectives was like, okay, I also saw a defect, like an indent on the concrete basement floor. And he was like. This indent was significant to me because even though the basement floor has a lot of other defects and indents, this specific one stood out. It looked clean, it looked new, and it still had a chalky and dusty feel inside of it. And it didn't have, like, embedded dirt or grime like the other others. Right. So then bullet fragments were also recovered, and a spent cartridge Shell was found underneath a blue workbench on the south side of the basement. So obviously, law enforcement collected the ballistic evidence and found that not only was the cartridge consistent with being shot from an SKS type rifle, but it had the same head stamp as the bullet that Chandler had given his brother Mitchell as a get well gift.

[B]

Yeah, you said that last episode, that and that that's how that bullet becomes significant, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're able to make a match in the. Then the indentation you're referring to, obviously we're not talking about something the size of a basketball. Visually, it's probably more the size of a quarter. And that would more than likely be an indentation from a bullet bouncing off the concrete.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So that's why the detective's like, okay, it looks to me like a bullet hit here. Right. And now we're finding all these other things. Now, going further, there was a little crawl space area. Remember I said there's the rack with the laundry detergent and then the hydrogen peroxide, the empty bottle was there. Now, behind where that open freezer had been found, and behind that rack with the cleaning products on, they found a sort of hidden, like, crawl space behind some insulation. And so there's like a little crawl space and then there's, like, insulation and some boards propped up. And so the police went in there and they found a few black triangular pieces that ended up being mouthpieces that were used for vapes, like smoking devices. So that's nothing really incriminating. It's like Chandler's vaping. He doesn't want his parents to find out, so he's kind of hiding them in the basement. But at that point, the police were like, okay, clearly someone intentionally hid these back here. And maybe they could have hidden other things back here.

[B]

By the way, you could take those mouthpieces and DNA test them. But I. We'll see. We'll see what happens here.

[A]

And then they tore the insulation out, and then they revealed the rest of this crawl space. And they also rear revealed three magazines containing bullets.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, it's great investigative work.

[A]

So the theory was that Chandler had gotten his father down into the basement somehow, at which point he shot him from behind at least twice and possibly three times. So bullet fragments had been extracted from Bart's torso and bone, because, remember, Bart's torso is found. They found certain entry wounds, but they. They couldn't because it's only the torso and it's decomposed and it's all cut up. So forensic person testifying was like, Definitely shot twice. Definitely. The entry wound is to the back, which means he was shot from behind. He could have potentially been shot three times because there was some small bullet fragments in his bone. But we can't tell for sure all the entry wounds located in Bart's back. So obviously a sneak attack of some point.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

All premeditated at that point. Not premeditated for weeks. But whatever amount of time that he had planned it, maybe he had already thought about this again, scenario. All planned out. And I go back to the whole vape cartridges, right. The mouthpieces. Maybe they did this, maybe they didn't. But you know that Chandler likes to use the vape. You could test that and show that he would have a. He would have an understanding of that crawl space. And that's something that he used for. For hiding other things that he didn't want people to find.

[A]

Well, and the police knew, hey, the freezer's here now. But it wasn't here on the 7th. So clearly somebody put this freezer somewhere. Chandler's kind of using this basement as his little hidey hole, so.

[B]

Oh, I love the reference there. The Heidi hole.

[A]

The Heidi hole. You like.

[B]

Shout out btk.

[A]

Shout out btk. Chandler and BTK would have gotten along well. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but we have more to talk about. Lots more when we get back. This episode is brought to you by Helix. And I know I've said this before, but I love Helix. Okay. And upgrading my sleep has genuinely been one of the best things I've done for my daily energy and I'd say mental like, mindset too.

[B]

Sleep is one of those things where people underestimate it and the impact it can have until they're not getting enough of it.

[A]

Switching to a Helix mattress really did change the game for me. Before Helix, I was tossing and turning, constantly waking up, overheated, which I hate. Trying to get uncomfortable, basically performing a full athletic event in my sleep, not getting into that deep sleep cycle I need to get into to actually rest my brain. And then I'd wake up exhausted, which feels deeply unfair actually, after doing all that work overnight.

[B]

Yeah, you should not to recover after sleeping.

[A]

Exactly. And that's what I love about Helix. They have over 20 customizable options, including built in cooling features so you can find a mattress that actually works for the way you sleep. Whether you're a side sleeper, back sleeper, hot sleeper, restless sleeper, all of the above. Whatever your sleep personality is, Helix has options.

[B]

Yeah. And we both have the midnight Lux and we Absolutely love it. We've had them for years. It lives up to the hype. The luxe part, definitely. If it feels as good as it did the day we bought it.

[A]

And by the way, we didn't pick it. The sleep quiz picked it for us. And. And the sleep quiz does not miss. Okay. I love that. Helix makes the whole process easy. It ships free to your door in a convenient box. Setup is simple, and they give you a 120 night sleep trial, a limited lifetime warranty, and the Happy with Helix guarantee.

[B]

Yeah, and that's a big thing because buying a mattress, it's a. It's a big decision. So you want to make sure that, you know, it works before committing to it.

[A]

Helix is also the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired.

[B]

Yeah. So if your current mattress. We need to talk. This is a good time to upgrade.

[A]

Exactly. Because Helix is running their Labor Day early access sales from August 1st through August 13th. Yep. Right now is the absolute best time to upgrade. Go to helix sleep.com crime weekly for 20% off. That's helixsleep.com crime weekly for 20 percent off. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. All right, so Chandler lures Bart down to the basement somehow. Now, I've thought about this a lot. Did Chandler go down in the basement and hide with the gun? I think this is probably what happened. He hid with the gun, and then he was like, dad, I fell down the stairs, you know, or I hurt myself. Yeah. And Bart's like this freaking kid again because this happened recently, a few weeks ago. Remember? Bart's at his desk typing, and then he hears like, Chandler fell down the stairs. But he's like, it didn't sound that bad. So I didn't get up. And then Chandler's like, help me. I've fallen and I can't get up. And that' Bart goes to investigate. So Chandler already knows, I'm going to pretend to fall down the stairs again. Maybe he went boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then he was like, dad, help me. Bart comes down. Chandler's kind of hiding in that space by the. Where the freezer is. And he steps out. And when Bart walks downstairs, he shoots him in the back.

[B]

I mean, simple explanation, usually the right one. Whatever it was, I don't think they walked down the stairs together. I agree with you. I think he yelled up to his dad for whatever reason. And when dad comes down the stairs, he positions him himself. Chandler at an angle.

[A]

Already ready with the Gun. Yep.

[B]

Right where he knows from being down there multiple times that when Bart comes down the stairs, Chandler's going to have a position from behind where he can shoot him.

[A]

And it's believed that by the time Chandler texted his mother at 3:19 saying dad's phone's dead, it was in fact the truth that Bart Holderson was already dead. And then Chandler needed to conceal his body temporarily because when Christa arrived home from work, he somehow got her down in the basement too. Because there's not blood really found on the main level of the house.

[B]

Yeah, no, he wanted it deliberately to

[A]

be done in the basement in one spot.

[B]

Can I ask a question? When you talked about that indentation on the concrete, were you referring to the concrete wall or the floor? You might have said. Okay, so that also gives you an indication that even if Barr or could have been Krista, whenever they were shot standing, they were also shot while horizontal as well.

[A]

Yes. Standing up. Yeah, that's the case.

[B]

SKS rifle. You can see the SKS rifle is something that's extremely powerful and more than likely would create a through and through wound, meaning that it would go through multiple people. And so that's probably what happened here.

[A]

So then Krista gets home. It's likely Chandler somehow got her down into the basement too. I think he was probably down there when she got home. And he was like, hurries, dad collapsed. He's having a heart attack. Something like that. Which would make Krista rush down the stairs. And then, you know, Chandler did something to Krista.

[B]

Now, he could have used Bart as a decoy. Bart could have been laying right there as she comes down the stairs maybe, and she goes, oh my God, Bart. And then as she's looking over him, he shoots her from behind. Wouldn't be hard. That would be the trap right there.

[A]

The thing is, Krista's exact cause of death has never been determined. And I'll explain why later, but can

[B]

take a guess why.

[A]

They do know that five bullets were missing from one of those magazines. Bart was shot at the most, they believe, three times. Even though there's really no way for them to know that for sure. I will say, because a lot of Bart's body parts were never recovered. Right. So Chandler could have shot and like maybe missed.

[B]

Flinched. Yeah. Anticipated the shot, which would cause the rifle to drop down in the front. That happens a lot by inexperienced shooters.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe shot him in the leg or the butt or whatever happened.

[B]

More than you think.

[A]

So we don't. We don't know. But at this point Point. You know, both of his parents are dead.

[B]

I. I think more than likely he shoots them while they're standing, they go down, and then he finishes them off to make sure they're dead. Probably a shot to the head or to the chest or to the back.

[A]

Maybe not the head. And I'll explain why later, but.

[B]

Okay, well, we don't have Bart's head, right?

[A]

We don't have Bart's head, technically.

[B]

Okay, I'll let you get there. I might be jumping ahead.

[A]

So at this point, it's likely that Chandler left his parents bodies in the basement and then went to the garage, where he began gathering some tools to begin dismembering. Now, in the garage, police found a couple lengths of rope, black and orange. Now, remember, there was a black rope wrapped around Bart Halderson's torso when they found it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that black rope in the garage had been cut. And so they would match it to the rope that was found tied around Bart Halderson's torso. Proving the rope tied around Bart Holderson came from the Halderson family garage.

[B]

Yep. And they would be able to compare threads and all that stuff to confirm it's the exact same black rope they did.

[A]

Yep. So a handle from a bow saw was collected with a small piece of the broken saw blade still attached. And this would match to the broken saw blade found on the property of Cress the. The farm Y. Okay, so leaning against a wall of the garage, they collected a wooden handled axe that had blood staining on the area where the handle and axe came together, as well as on the axe head itself. And obviously, all this blood is matching to Bart and Krista Halderson. Now, there was also a waste bin and a recycling bin found in the garage. And blood found on the handle of the garbage can as well as inside the garbage can. We are going to talk about that later. It'll probably be the next and final episode, but I have theories about that. So the garage also contained a rack of Rubbermaid storage bins. And this is very organized. Everything's, like, labeled. It's nice. But underneath the rack with the Rubbermaid storage bins, there's a whole bunch of shoes located underneath that rack. And then there's a rubber mat with, like, more shoes on it that's kind of tucked underneath the rack. And then when that rubber mat was pulled sold out, the police retrieved a pair of black floral shoes that had been hidden underneath the rack, and they saw that there was what appeared to be foil sticking out of the right shoe. So they're like, what is this foil? So they grabbed the foil in a procedural police way, obviously. I'm kind of boiling photos. They did everything properly. Yes.

[B]

Make sure you do everything. Not gloves.

[A]

They showed every single step of it during the trial. I'm not going to bore you with it. So they open the foil, and then they were like, oh, there's something in this foil that's wrapped in a piece of paper towel. So they open up the paper towel, and inside, wrapped in paper towel, wrapped in foil, shoved in that shoe was Christa Halderson's cell phone, Bart Halderson's cell phone, and their driver's licenses. So.

[B]

So he tried to create, like, a Faraday cage with the foil, essentially.

[A]

Exactly. That's so interesting. Now, this stood out to me because I'm like, this is weird. And then it made me think about something else the police had found, which they mentioned during their trial testimony, but it was never really, like, specified. But while the police were going through the house, they found that every single Alexa device in the Halderson home was unplugged.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that Chandler thought if he wrapped the phones in foil, it would make, like, a Faraday cage and they wouldn't be able to be tracked. But listen, he's an idiot because the phones were turned off anyways, so they wouldn't have been able to be tracked until or unless he turned the back on, which he. He did with his mother's cell phone on July 4th. And do you know what happened with his mother's cell phone? Came back on in July 4th? It was pinging off towers at the Halderson home. So there's no. There's no. Like, I don't know why he thought that wrapping them in foil while they were off would stop them from being tracked.

[B]

Listen, if they were, I. What do I always say?

[A]

Yeah, if they were smart, they wouldn't.

[B]

We talked about Coburger earlier this week. If they were smart, we wouldn't catch them.

[A]

So, I mean, that with the. The foil thing in combination with the unplugged aluminum Alexas, it makes me feel like Chandler was hella paranoid in, like, a conspiracy theorist sort of way.

[B]

Well, the Alexa thing, not to give him any credit, is a smart thing because depending on how you have them set up, they are listening constantly.

[A]

Yes, they are. Yes.

[B]

So. So there would be recordings there that potentially, if he hadn't unplugged them, that the law enforcement could go back to Amazon. I don't know how long the recordings work for. All that stuff, but potentially capture the murder on Audi at least.

[A]

Okay, but this is why it's kind of funny to me, because Chandler's over here, like, making sure his smart devices can't hear him. But then at the same time, he seemed to completely forget about every neighbor outside the house that had a ring. Doorbell, camera.

[B]

No, no, he's an idiot. And then also on top of that, if you're trying to create the illusion that your parents left under their own free will, the one place you wouldn't expect to find their belongings would be at the house.

[A]

Yeah. Why? To keep them there.

[B]

Well, why wasn't that dumped in some river somewhere?

[A]

You know, I think he wanted to make sure that if he needed to, like, re people, that they were alive.

[B]

I get it, I get it. But at that point, you're an idiot.

[A]

But at the point that the police are coming on July 7, you should make sure those phones are nowhere in the house. And he.

[B]

It should be up at the campground somehow. I mean, I don't know how you'd get up there, but it should be closer to that area. And it should. They should never be found.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So. But they're still there when he gets arrested on July 8th.

[B]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, that was a misstep.

[A]

Now, in that same area of shoes, they also found a pair of size 10 and a half sneakers with what looked like twigs and grass embedded into the soles. And reddish brown stains in the tread, the to area and the tongue. These are Chandler shoes. So a roll of yellow duct tape was also collected. And the cut piece of that roll of tape was matched to several pieces of yellow duct tape found at the location of Bart's body. There had been yellow duct tape on the tarp found in a black garbage can, and a loose piece of duct tape found in the garbage can. And those matched the cut made on the roll of tape found in the Halderson garage. This is something that they did. It's called a fracture match, which I didn't know the technical term of it, but.

[B]

Incredible. Especially with duct tape. By the way, duct tape's awesome because not only can they match the glue, but they can also match. When you pull out a piece of duct tape, you can see the. The fibers, the threads.

[A]

Exactly. That's what they did. Yeah.

[B]

And they can take that and match it up under a microscope, and they can say to you, yeah, this piece was actually cut from the last piece here. So it's. It's incredible. Duct tape. Duct tape's a good one. For evidence collection. As far as comparables, it was so

[A]

cool to see how they did that.

[B]

So they, they do it with bullet strike variations too?

[A]

Yep. They were able to determine that all the duct tape they found where Bart Halderson's torso was found came from that duct tape. A single piece of duct tape from that role at the Halterson home.

[B]

Adhesive threads, the. The pattern of thread. Every company does it different, like gorilla versus 3M. They all have their own proprietary thread pattern. And so it's. It's really easy to match it up if you know what you're doing. I couldn't do it, but the, the small, smart people could.

[A]

So that was very cool. I liked learning about that. So then at 6.30pm on the same day, right? This is. We're still on July 1st, which is the day that, that he killed his parents. Chandler sent his girlfriend Cat a text message. And it said, quote, baby, I need you, end quote. So I would assume by 6:30, Chandler's done with the. The majority of the killing and dismembering Elise's mother, much as he can. Now, between 7:49 and 7:54pm Chandler was in the shower cleaning off. And we know this because he and Cat were in the shower together in separate homes. But they were on FaceTime. They were doing a FaceTime call while they were showering, and Cat took screenshots, so she was able to show the police. Here's the screenshot I took of Chandler in the shower between this time and this time. And it's all timestamped, so we gotta. We gotta give the Gen Z respect for being chronically online and taking screenshots of everything, because Kat took screenshots of everything.

[D]

What were they.

[B]

Were they having phone sex?

[A]

No, they were just talking to each other while they were in the shower. Yeah.

[B]

So why is she screenshotting it?

[A]

Because, I don't know, she thinks he's cute or something. I don't know. It was just. You can see. I'll have Shannon put up the pictures of him in the shower.

[B]

Good. I'll take your word for it. They can put it up online for you guys.

[A]

Yeah, he's just sitting there looking. Looking all creepy at the phone.

[B]

Yeah, I'll take your word for it, but yeah, we'll throw it in the episode for you.

[A]

So that night Chandler cat that he thought his parents were out doing grocery shopping before they left for the cabin the next morning. And then he told her he was going to bed. But Chandler did not go to bed. At 8:16pm the neighbor's surveillance camera captured Krista's Volvo leaving the Halderson home. And by 8:22pm Chandler was at the quick trip in Windsor, where he purchased two large £10 bags of ice. And then Chandler was home by 8:29pm and then between 8:30 and 9 9pm Remember, the Halderson's neighbor, Stephen Griber, reported beginning to smell something pungent burning. Now, it's believed at this point, Chandler had brought some of the body parts up from the basement into the family room, where he began burning them in the fireplace. Now, this part of the, the investigation and the forensics, it's horrible, but it really interested me. It really interested me. And I. I want everyone to know things can be absolutely disgusting and horrible, but still, I learned so much, much from this. So I. I'm kind of looking forward to introducing this to you. Derek, you probably know some of this because you have a better investigating background than I do, obviously, but I learned a lot.

[B]

So I'm still learning all the time, though. That's part of the reason I love covering these cases is another tool in the toolbox. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

[A]

I found this testimony stimulating, and it was very technical.

[B]

I love learning from other detectives who sometimes use innovative approaches or even use approaches I'm familiar with in a better way.

[A]

It was just very, very interesting. Like, they did a great investigation. I will say basis covered, beginning to end.

[B]

And that's a big compliment coming from you.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

That's. That's high praise.

[A]

When a police body does a good job, I'm going to say you did a good job because this is not easy work.

[B]

You don't throw those compliments out lightly. So that's. This is. This is high praise for you guys. If you're. Anybody from the team who worked on this case is listening.

[A]

Good job, guys.

[B]

Good job. Stephanie approved.

[A]

Boom. I am very, very happy with you. And I learned a lot. Okay, so there's the family room. That's where the fireplace is. Right on the table in family room, police found a measuring tape. And they say Chandler used the measuring tape to go downstairs and measure body parts from his parents to make sure the ones he was bringing upstairs would fit inside of their residential fireplace. And then if they didn't, he would then cut to make sure that they would. Okay, but let's be honest. This plan, because he's an idiot, it was never going to work because a residential fireplace can't get hot enough to destroy human remains. Right?

[B]

Yeah. It's not a cremation.

[A]

It can't. It just can't. So to reduce a human body completely to ash, a commercial crematorium must maintain temperatures between 1400 and 1800 degrees Fahrenheit for multiple hours under direct pressure. But obviously, home fireplaces are not only going to lack the thermal capacity, but also the oxygen airflow to sustain those temperatures. So they found a fan on the family room table as well. And they say this was a fan Chandler used to try and add oxygen and airflow to the fireplace. And to be fair, fireplace did get very hot. Very, very hot. Hotter than it should have, which is why some of the paint and, like, the plaster and stuff around the fireplace had bubbled and distorted. Now, on the surveillance video, remember, from the neighbor across the street that showed the fireplace flickering in the family room all night, we can also see that at one point around 3:00am or 4:00am, the light in the family room got very bright. Then the kitchen light went on and off, and then the bright light and the family room suddenly went out. So the police and the prosecution believed that the fire in the fireplace had gotten out of control due to the rendering of human fat. So Chandler went to the kitchen, got water, and threw it into the fireplace, which then caused the glass on the fireplace front to crack. That's how the glass cracked. That's how the glass cracked.

[B]

Makes sense.

[A]

So on the remaining glass, investigators noted a cloudy, greasy residue. And this same residue coated the inner perimeter of the metal frame. And the residue was the thickest along the back and side walls of the firebox, which is the inside of the fireplace. And it was concentrated heavily around the lower third of the chamber. So instead of being covered in normal gray ash, the bricks were coated in this, like, amber colored greasy film. And this was a film of biolipids, fats from the human body that are highly flammable. And they're highly flammable because of molecular structure. But I found out human fat doesn't typically burn well on its own because it becomes liquid at very high temperatures. However, when it melts and saturates a porous combustible material like clothing or wood logs, it triggers what forensic scientists call the wick effect. So the combustible materials act exactly like the cloth wick of a candle. And then the human fat is like the, the accelerant, the. The oil, so to speak.

[B]

First off, I had never heard of this before, the wick effect. So that's interesting and new to me. But I would equate it to something similar to A meat that you would cook, where you're cooking it on the stove and you start to have, you know, you get done cooking and you look up and there's grease covering the back, the, the, the hood, the range hood, the backsplash, all of it. Because a lot of that's rendering off into the air and then settling in close proximity. That's the best equivalent than I can give.

[A]

Or if you're making, like, short ribs and then it's all covered in foil, because I love making short ribs. And you pull it out and some of the liquid, like, kind of sloshes out onto the, the oven. It like, goes. It's very, you know, what does it do again?

[B]

Yeah, but if you guys didn't see on hissing sounds and gestures, that got me.

[A]

Yeah, it makes hissing sounds and smoke.

[B]

The hand gestures and the neck. Actually, Shannon needs to slow that down and just. Yes, yes, that's it right there.

[A]

So then I started thinking about, like, you really can't just set a human on fire by, like, throwing fire at them, right? Like you need something. And that's why with the witch trials, they would keep the person clothed and put like, all the kindling and stuff underneath them. Because in combination with all those things, the human body will be set a flame. Whereas if it was just like a naked body and nothing else, it. It really, I mean, they would burn, burn. But it wouldn't be like this whole, oh, I'm combusting up and my whole body and bones are dissolving. It wouldn't happen like that. So at this point, Chandler realized, hey, the fireplace is probably not going to be the solution I need it to be to make my parents bodies vanish. And then he tried to make the fireplace look normal again. Before reporting his parents missing, he stacked clean, unburnt logs of real wood onto the grate. And then he put fresh newspaper around the grate and around. Around the wood. But the police took the newspaper out, and it was dated June 23, 2021. So it was like newer newspaper. And obviously it's July, so the fireplace hasn't been used in a long time. So how the hell did paper from June 23rd get in there?

[B]

Another minor detail, but really investigative work, because there would be detectives that we've talked about in past episodes that would miss that little detail, which it's like

[A]

with all the other stuff, you probably don't need it, but it just adds more.

[B]

Everything matters because you don't know what's going to be admissible and what's going to get get thrown out. So every little detail that just shows what actually happened is, is important. You can never assume that it's, oh, you know what? We got enough. We don't need anymore.

[A]

Yeah, I just, I, I thought it was very. And it gets better. Okay, so he, he came up, Chandler came up with a story. When the cops got there, he's playing with the dog, he broke the glass, but nobody really believed him. Okay. Based on the wound on his foot, which wasn't really like, oh, you got this from slashing your foot open on broke. Based on everything, the police were like, we don't really believe this. And what Chandler didn't realize is his efforts to clean up this fireplace were not only half assed, but really messy. And he didn't understand how the fireplace worked, so to speak. So we're going to talk about that. But let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack and hydration sponsor. IQ Bar Protein bars, IQ Mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious, low, no sugar, brain and body fuel you need to win your day.

[B]

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[B]

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[A]

All right, we're back. So what Chandler did was he completely failed to understand how his own home's heating infrastructure worked. And I can't even say that he's done for this, because I did. I didn't even know this. Once again, I love learning this stuff. So he looked at the fireplace. As in just like, oh, it's the inside of the fireplace. It's a surface level trash can. But he was oblivious to the fact that gravity and architectural design were systematically collecting evidence as he was burning his parents. So in older or traditional Brick and mortar homes with a central fireplace. There is a small cast iron trap door built directly into the floor of the firebox. And that's usually located right under where the logs sit. It's called an ash dump door. So instead of shoveling hot ash out into the living room, the homeowner would simply have to push the ash through the the ash dump door. And then the ash falls down a hollow brick chimney vertical shoot that empties into a sealed concrete or brick vault located at the absolute bottom of the chimney stack. And in the case of the Halderson home, that was housed within the basement walls. And that vault that's at the bottom of the shoot is called the ash pit or the ash trap. Chandler overloaded the family fireplace with the human remains of his parents. The extreme heat and frantic stoking caused fragments of bone, teeth, and liquefied bio lipits to fall directly through the grate and slip through the cracks of the floor's ash dump door. And then Chandler aggressively swept the top hearth. He SC he scrubbed the frame and the glass and threw down these fresh unburnt logs to make the living room and the, the family room look normal for when deputies arrived on July 7. But he didn't realize the as shoot extended complet into the subterranean foundation. So he thought he had successfully hidden or destroyed the evidence by wiping down the visible fireplace box. So when arson investigators in the state crime lab processed the main floor fireplace, they immediately recognized that a substantial portion of the ash was missing from the surface grate. And so they followed the path of gravity. Normally an ash pit has a small metal door in the basement, and then you would shovel the debris out every few years. But in many modern homes with finished or partially finished basements, like the Halderson home, that access door would get covered up by drywall, insulation or framing during home renovations. So that was the case with the Halderson home. It had like a drywall put up in front of that, that ash door where you would normally clean it out. So I don't honestly know how people in that situation would clean out the ash trap, but they probably don't even know that they have to because they don't use their fireplace enough. Cuz it was for the old days when you would use it as your main heating for the house. But yes, anyways, to reach the bottom of the ash trap, the true bottom, Forensic teams had to physically tear away the wall paneling and framing in the basement to expose the structural masonry of the chimney column. And once they breached the Brick cleanout, access point at the base of the chute. They unlocked a time capsule of the crime. They shoveled the ash that was in there, which was a lot, into buckets. And then they poured those buckets into flat containers and they systematically began sifting through all, all of the ash, eventually revealing a total of 230 bone fragments. Now, 106 of those fragments were positively identified as human bone fragments. We had 53 skull bones. So when you say Bart's skull was never found. Technically, technically it was, but in fragments. And so they couldn't, wouldn't be able

[B]

to determine if he was shot in the head with those fragments.

[A]

But I will say there was no bullets found in the ash trap. But I don't know if they would have.

[B]

That would make sense though, because it would be a through and through.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Even though there was a bullet fragment found in Bart's bone of his torso.

[C]

So.

[B]

Yeah, so it depends, right? Like it depends on where, where it hit with the skull, depending on the angle. Again, there's no rhyme or reason to it. You could have an entry and exit wound on one particular part of the body. And then just based on the trajectory, it may hit a rib, it may hit a second rib. And because of it being slowed down by the skin and the muscle tissue around it, that could be enough to have it lodge inside the body, opposed to going right through.

[A]

Yes. Well, what, what we, what we need to take from this is Chandler cut off his parents heads and tried to burn them in the fireplace.

[B]

Clearly. Yep. Maybe he thought that that was the key to identifying the body.

[A]

53 skull bones. I think he wanted to burn the. All the body parts. Couldn't fit it, but couldn't fit it. And then the fireplace burned too hot, got out of control, started like melting things, and that's when he put it.

[B]

And the process was probably, probably taken too long.

[A]

They also found 18 hand bones. They found 24 dental fragments, eight vertebrae bones, and three fragments from long bones like the legs, the arms. Okay, so he tried to burn a lot of body parts in here.

[B]

I agree with you that he, the original plan was probably to burn it all. But I also think that he was focusing on identifiable in his mind, identifiable body parts like the head, the fingers, the toes, like the teeth. Places where you could go back and run tests to confirm the identification of said body. Maybe he thought the torso alone would not be enough.

[A]

I mean, I don't know why he would think that. What do you. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I'm just saying, I'm trying to get in the mind of the. Of the. Of this guy. It doesn't make sense, but maybe that was his thought process. Like, oh, you know, a torso alone, as long as they don't have something to compare it to, it could be just classified as a John Doe or a Jane Doe.

[A]

That's ridiculous.

[D]

I get it.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

And it's not even like he. He tried to hide the torso all that well. Right? He put, like, some leaves and sticks on top, but he didn't bury it.

[B]

No, that's what makes me think that, oh, the torso alone won't be enough for them to identify who it belongs to.

[A]

Yeah, he's not smart, so, yeah, we've established that. I also want to say that it's pretty obvious and likely that all 230 bone fragments were, in fact, human bones. But for the purposes of the trial, they couldn't be identified that way, because to legally certify a bone fragment as human in a court of law, an anthropologist has to to identify certain diagnostic landmarks, like specific structural features unique to the human anatomy, like distinct curvature of a human skull plate, the specific thickness of a human femur, et cetera. So for more than half of the bones recovered from the ash trap, they were burned so severely that they lost these outer surface details. And, you know, when human bone is subjected to intense, prolonged flame contact, it undergoes a process called calcination, which means the fire burns away all the moisture and organic collagen inside the bone, and so it causes the structural matrix of the bone to shrink, warp, and become incredibly fragile. But the prosecution did give some context to the jury. They were like, listen, we can't tell you for sure, based on, like, legality, that all of these bones were Bart and and Chris's. But we can tell you for sure that no animal remains or barbecue scraps were ever placed into that fireplace. Meaning that the unidentified bone fragments were simply the pulverized, completely charred remains of the exact same human remains found right along alongside them.

[B]

So, yeah, reasonable deduction here. I think most jury members under these circumstances are going to deduce or come to the conclusion that, hey, we got these 200 plus bones. More than a hundred plus of those bones are confirmed to be human. More than likely, the remaining bone fragments are human as well.

[A]

And they were confirmed to be Bart and Krista's because I believe it was like a dental apparatus that had belonged to Bart was found. So, you know, they were able to

[B]

say some type of crown or bridge. Yeah.

[A]

Chandler didn't just burn other People here, if you needed any more context, these bones did belong to his parents, right?

[B]

And they didn't cook in this, in this fireplace. They didn't cook meats and things like that. That's also important to rule out because that could be used as some defense. The fact that they were able to positively identify some of the fragments as belonging directly to Bart and Krista, that's the nail in the coffin.

[A]

So that brings us to Chandler's realization that the fireplace is not going to be his saving grace for making all the remains of his parents disappear. Now Chandler told the police during the his interview on July 8 that on this Friday night when he's burning his parents in the fireplace, he said his girlfriend Cat slept over. So that night he's burning the remains overnight right on from Thursday night into Friday morning. And he said that Friday night cat slept over. And before she arrived, he spent the day playing video games even though he knew he should have been cleaning and doing his chores. However, a neighbor's security cameras captured some vehicle activity that morning. So at 7:02am A neighborhood surveillance camera captured Bart Halderson Subaru leave the Halderson home. And at 7:21am Chandler drove that same vehicle into the parking lot of Fleet Farm. So this is a general store, they specialize in hardware, outdoor materials, farm stuff. He's seen on the store's surveillance camera walking in wearing the same sneakers he had on when he murdered his parents because their blood was found on the sneakers. And he then purchased a 6x8 silver black heavy duty poly tarp, which would later be matched to the tarp that was covered in his parents blood and found hidden on the farm where he tried to conceal his father's dismembered torso. At 7:31am the Subaru returned to the Halderson home. What we do not see on the neighbor's security cameras is any vehicle containing a mystery couple arriving at the Halderson home. We don't see Bart and Krista walking out with suitcases, boxes of alcohol and bags of casino money ready for a fun weekend at their cabin. We do not see that ever. So once again, Chandler's all worried about phones and wrapping them in foil and Alexa devices. But then he tells the police, yeah, the people came and picked up my parents, not realizing that all of his neighbors have security cameras.

[B]

Yeah, that video that we played, I talked about it earlier. Just, you could tell he really, he just forgot about that aspect of this, of this whole thing. He really did.

[A]

Did he? Definitely did. But don't Worry the phones are wrapped in foil.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, he really just totally tunnel vision on whatever he was doing. Forgot about the idea that neighbors may have cameras. Yeah, Wasn't well thought out.

[A]

So at around 8am that morning. This is Friday morning, Chandler's girlfriend Cat left for work. She began texting Chandler about her preparations to stay the night with him. And she's really excited about this because they hadn't had any real time together in weeks. At 9:23am Cat texted Chandler and told him that when she left for work that day later, she had to stop at two different targets for groceries, and then she had to stop at her mom's house. So Chandler said, okay. And then at 9:30am he texted, quote, don't rush. I have tons of chores they are having me do, end quote. Of course he doesn't want her to rush. She doesn't get out of work till 5. But he's like, don't. Don't rush. Once you do get out of work, I need as much time as I can get. So Cat then asked Chandler what he wanted for dinner that night. She was like, I can make chili, we can make hamburgers, whatever you're in the mood for. The two go back and forth about what they should have for dinner that. That night. And then, and then Chandler said something that surprised Cat and kind of pissed her off. He said, quote, we could do dinner tonight and you come over in the morning again and stay till Sunday night, end quote. He followed that up with another message that said, quote, like, dinner plus sex, end quote. So he's telling her, like, you can come over, we can have dinner, we can have sex.

[B]

You can feed me and you can

[A]

you feed me, Then you got to

[B]

go home, then you got to leave,

[A]

Then you got to go home.

[B]

Yeah, that's not going to sit well with most. Most people.

[A]

No, no. Cat was a bit annoyed by this, understandably. Yeah. She was like, like, this is not the plan that we've been. Your parents are out of town. We h. We haven't been allowed to see each other for weeks, and now you're telling me that the one night we can finally spend the night together. Oh, I can have sex with you, but I can't lay next to you as you sleep. This is messed up. She's like, why? What's the point? She said, why would I come over, have dinner, hang out and, and not stay if I'm just going to come back tomorrow morning? Like, this is ridiculous. And Chandler said, it's because I need to get some Chores done. So, okay, Cat's pissed, but she's not. She's not really telling him she's pissed, but you can tell she is.

[B]

So she's annoyed.

[A]

She's. She's real. She's hurt is what she is. She's hurt. So at noon, Chandler texted Cat again and he told her that he also needed ice and quote, now, hydrogen peroxide, because I stepped on glass, end quote. At 12:15pm Chandler texted, quote, but for real, if your mom has an extra bottle, that would be great. And a Swifter wetjet, end quote. Cat wrote back telling Chandler, quote, we have both, end quote. Meaning they have hydrogen peroxide and they have the swift. They have a wet jet. Yeah, he. He calls it a swifter. In the text.

[B]

That's the brand. Yeah, Swiffer.

[A]

It's Swiffer.

[B]

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, I thought it was swifter too. I was like, yeah, it's not. Clearly I don't use one a lot. But we have one. We do have one.

[A]

It's Swift. It's Swiffer. It's not Swiffer.

[B]

We have the. The one that begins with a B.

[A]

I mean, unless that's a man Mandela effect. And it is swifter. I think it's Swiffer, though. But anyways, this is also the day that Krista Halderson's coworker and friend Daniel Kroninger stopped by, worried about why Krista had missed work without telling anyone. So his car is seen arriving at 4:45pm and leaving at 4:51pm but remember, Daniel said when he saw Chandler that day, Chandler was just getting out of the shower and his foot was bandaged. He had just showered because all day he'd been trying to. Trying to find a way to hide the remainder of his parents bodies somewhere in the house so that Cat wouldn't notice anything was out of place or weird. That's why he doesn't want her to spend the night. Right. So the night before, we know Chandler had purchased 20 pounds of ice. And so the prosecution believes that Chandler used the ice and the freezer in the basement to temporarily preserve and hide the remains to prevent any smell that would occur from rapid decomposition.

[B]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[A]

And this is the kind of decomposition that you would expect to happen during extremely hot July. July temperatures. Right, because you see, the Halderson home did not have central air conditioning. And in fact, a surprise visit from an H VAC tech named Zach Reed during the period of time in which Bart and Crystal were missing became highly memorable. During the trial because prior to their murders, Bart and Krista had contacted a local H Vac company to get an estimate for installing a new air conditioning system. It had been a very hot summer and the consultation had been scheduled for July 6, 2021. So this was another kind of way the prosecution was like, Bart and Chris didn't go to no cabin because if they had, why would they plan to have an H Vac guy come and talk to them about an AC unit when they were gone? So while Zach Reed was at the house, he never got inside because Chandler pulled up after Zach was there and kind of waiting for someone to come. And Chandler was like, hey, my parents are away for the weekend. But Zach Reed noticed while he was looking around the house that the basement windows had been completely obscur, obscured by some sort of covering. And when the police went in the home later, they found that all the windows in the basement had been covered by blankets and towels. And we know why Chandler doesn't. Yeah, Chandler doesn't want to see anybody, you know, had anybody to see him dismembering his parents bodies. Also, he's trying to keep it as cool in there as he possibly can.

[B]

Yep. Insulate as much as possible to keep out the heat. Yep.

[A]

And while we understand that the basement would probably have been slightly cooler than the the rest of the house, it's still a very hot July.

[B]

The not going to be good for flush.

[A]

Nope. Temps are in the high 80s, the 90s. Chandler could not very well leave the remaining parts of his parents bodies sitting on the basement floor cuz they would start to smell. His girlfriend might notice that smell and later report it to questioning detectives when Chandler reports his parents missing. So Chandler got a bunch of ice, he puts the ice in the freezer, then hid the remains inside the freezer, knowing Cat was coming over. And then he took a shower so that when she arrived, he would be fresh and not sweaty and bloody from that task. Now, at around 5pm, Kat left work and stopped at her apartment so she could grab some clothes and then throw them into the washer when she got to her mother's house. And so Kat and Chandler are talking a little bit more and you can tell that Cat's miffed because he was like, well, I mean, were you even ready to spend the night? She's like, yeah, dude, I've, I've packed clothes and stuff because I thought I was spending the night. But don't worry, I'll just leave them in the car. Whatever, I'll just leave my bag in the car, whatever it is what it is. It's fine. It's not fine when she says it's fine. It's not fine.

[B]

No.

[A]

Now he's absolutely ignorant to the fact that he's hurt her feelings, by the way.

[B]

Well, he's a little preoccupied.

[A]

He is. But I also think, once again, like, he doesn't have the social understanding. He's like, what's the big deal if you come over and we hang out together all night? We're just going to sleep. What do you even want to be here for when I'm sleeping? Like, why does that matter, you know? So Chandler texted at 5:20pm Okay, I do kind of need the swifter and peroxide and stuff. End quote. So at 5:29pm Cat was at the Hillsdale Target in Madison. She did a curbside pickup order for some groceries. Pork chops, oat, milk, cheese. She then went to her mother's house. She threw the laundry in that she had taken from her apartment. She grabbed the Swiffer, she grabbed the peroxide that Chandler had reminded her several times that day he needed. And then at 6:04pm she received a text from Chandler reminding her that he also needed ice. So he needs more ice. Apparently, the 20 pounds he had gotten the night before was not enough. And during the trial, they're asking her, they're like, did you know he got 20 pounds of ice the night before? And she's like, no. And. And they were like, why would Chandler need ice? Did. Did they not have an ice machine in the house?

[C]

And.

[B]

Or at least an ice cube tray.

[A]

Yeah, an ice cube tray. Something. She's like, he really likes his drinks cold. Okay, The Haldersons really like cold drinks.

[B]

And also, why can't he go out and get it? I don't know. There's a lot here that he can't

[A]

drive because of his injury, remember?

[B]

Oh, that's right, the injuries.

[A]

She's got to wait on him hand and foot. She's got to take care of poor little baby boy Chandler.

[B]

Yeah, I'm going to give Kat a little grace on this where it's like, if somebody not in these circumstances says, hey, on your way over, can you grab a bag of ice?

[A]

I'd be like, bitch, what are you doing? You don't have a job.

[B]

Well, he's injured.

[A]

Yeah, he's injured.

[B]

He's injured. So I could see as the good girlfriend being like, yeah, you can't really leave the house. You like your drinks cold. They probably don't have an ice machine.

[A]

They Have a, like a normal freezer where they have ice.

[B]

But she said, yeah, like an ice cube tray. But it's not going to be frozen as fast as the bags of ice would be.

[A]

He likes his drinks cold, understand? And she's waiting on him hand and foot, okay, because he's injured and she's worried about him.

[B]

He's injured, man. Got to go easy on him.

[A]

Chandler never deserved Cat, okay? That's, that's a fact. At 6:37pm Cats are now at a different target. And here she grabs watermelon and pickled jalapenos for the burgers they decide to make that night. And this is very important, cuz she does curbside pickup at both targets. And what happens, Derek, when you do curbside pickup or let's say you order something from doordash or something. What's on the bag when you get the bag?

[B]

I, I don't do it too often. I'm definitely just calling myself out here. Isn't it your name or whatever your

[A]

name, your name is on the bag. And usually the date and the time and your name, right? There's like maybe a receipt staple to the bag. And then your, your name's written on the bag because they put all the bags on a shelf so that when you arrive for the, the, the door, the port with the pickup at the curbside, you say. And then they're like, okay, Cat's here. They find the bag that says Cat. They grab it, they bring it out to you.

[B]

Oh, I thought they just scanned a ticket number or whatever, but okay, cool.

[A]

They grab the bag that says Cat. Right? So later they're going to find in the garbage cans that are at the end of the driveway at the property of Cress, at the farm where Bart Halderson's torso is found, they're going to find a bunch of bloody rags inside of a plastic bag inside of a target bag. And who's that name is on it?

[B]

Our girl Cat.

[A]

Our girl cat from her July 1st curbside pickup. And they're going to ask Cat, did you ever bring that bag to Crest's place? She's like, no, the last time I saw it, it was at Chandler's house. So this is another thing that places something that was at the Holderson home at the farm.

[B]

And this is something that's important because I know it didn't work out that way. You shown us, you have already shown us a quick clip of Cat, who's clearly a witness. But during the investigation, I have no doubt in my mind there was a, a part of the investigation that involved looking into Cat and whether she had assisted after the fact, that's still accessory to a crime. So clearly they were able to rule that out. But when you find a bag that Cat brought over, you do have to ask the question or you're not doing your job. When she came over, did Chandler disclose what he had done and then enlist her help to clean up the area? So I'm sure that was a consideration. Consideration initially.

[A]

So it was because.

[B]

As it should be.

[A]

Yeah. Because they found out she had spent the night there.

[B]

Yeah. They wouldn't be doing their job if it wasn't considered.

[A]

We see at 7:01pm Cat Subaru pulls into the driveway of the Halderson's home. So Bart had a Subaru and then Cat had a Subaru. Different models, different colors. So she pulls in at 7:01 and you can see her get out of the car. She goes inside and then she returns to the car a few minutes later with Chandler. They grab some of the bags of groceries out of the car, they go back inside. I have to give her credit at least she was like, I just, just picked up groceries for this dude, like he better get his ass outside, neck brace or no neck brace and help me carry these things in. So Cat later told the police that inside the house it smelled smoky. And so she asked Chandler, she's like, what the heck? Why does it smell like that in here? And he was like, well I was playing with the dogs, the fireplace broke. And then this allowed the smoky smell of the fireplace to invade the home. Cat also remembered that Chandler had told her that cuz he'd hurt his foot, there was going to be blood and glass all over. But she didn't see any of that. In fact, when police checked the fireplace, there was blood on the inside, on the outside, there was blood on the floor, around the fireplace, on the hearth. It was all over. Now Cat did end up sleeping over Friday night. So I, I have a sneaking suspicion, because I am a, a girl that she made Chandler feel bad that he'd set her up. Yeah, he'd set her up with all these expectations about being together the whole weekend and then had changed the plans to last minute. But I think they made a deal, which I'm going to talk about in a second, that, that Chandler said, okay, if you sleep over tonight, here's what needs to happen tomorrow. I'll talk about that in a second. So Cat, she slept over. They would usually sleep in Chandler's bedroom upstairs. But this night they slept in the living room, and she said they slept in, like, this makeshift fort that Chandler had created by pushing all of the couches together and then putting sheets over the couches and then putting, like, blankets and pillows inside this little, like, walled off area that the couches being pushed together had made. Now, Cat said they had never done this before when she had slept over. But Chandler wanted to be closer to the dogs because there were fireworks going off all weekend and. And the dogs would get scared of the fireworks. The prosecution put forth their own theory of why Chandler wanted him and Kat to sleep that way that night. They said that Chandler did this couch fort thing to basically trap Cat in. She was used to walking around the Halderson house at will. She knew where almost everything was. And a lot of the drinks and refrigerated snacks in the house were kept downstairs in the basement. So soda and drinks in that main standup refrigerator, and then ice cream and popsicles and such in the smaller freestanding freezer. Let's say Cat woke up in the middle of the night, she wanted to grab a drink or a snack, she'd go downstairs in the basement. Why wouldn't she? She'd normally do this anytime. But Chandler didn't want that. And Chandler wanted to be able to know if she moved, which is why he didn't want her to spend the night at all. Not because he didn't want to see her, because he was like, I don't want to be asleep and have her get up and find something I don't want her to find, because then I'll have to kill her too. And Kat's very lucky to have gotten out of the situation alive, I believe.

[B]

Yeah, she really. Because I'm. I have no doubt in my mind he would have killed her just as easily.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. 100%. So honestly, if she hadn't been as trusting of him and if she'd questioned him more, I think that she was. Was very likely to be in danger. So the prosecution was like, listen, if Cat and Chandler had been sleeping in his bed, she could have just gotten up and slipped out. He wouldn't have noticed. So he made this, like, network of couches pushed together so that the sleeping area would be smaller and more confined. And Cat would have needed to clumsily crawl out of the. This couch fort over blankets, over couch cushions, over the arms and the backs of the couches. And Chandler would have felt her mood, signaled them. Yeah, she probably would have, like, bumped into him, jostled him, like, accidentally kicked him when she's trying to get out. So he wanted to know if she woke up in the middle of the night so that she wouldn't discover anything.

[B]

Yeah, I was thinking about that as you were talking about Cat coming over. And on one hand, if he wanted to create the narrative that his parents had, you know, something bad had happened to them on vacation, if his girlfriend goes missing as well, there's a common denominator, and it would have made him a prime suspect. So it would have been difficult for him to kill her knowing what he was trying to accomplish. However, when we talk about the possibility that we're dealing with a psychopath here, we're not dealing with just an everyday person. And so at the end of the day, it's for selfish reasons, and he's going to do what's going to benefit him the most. And if she had stopped, stumbled upon something, whether it was at the fireplace or in the basement, I think his emotional reaction to that would have been to kill her in that second and then deal with the consequences later. And that kind of seems like the theme for this whole story so far. And we'll reconvene on this at the end when we finish the series. But I don't think there's a lot of thought put into Chandler's plans. He thinks about them, them briefly, he acts on them and then tries to figure out the details later. And that's indicative of this entire investigation. So to that point, when it comes to Cat, if she had just made one wrong turn or asked the wrong question, she would no longer be with us. So you're. You are right. She is very lucky.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, we're going to take our last break, and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Fume. And I think one of the hardest parts about changing a habit is that the habit has, like, this mental schedule for you.

[B]

Yes, it does. It really does. It knows when you're stressed, when you're bored, when you're driving, or when you're taking a break. It's right there for you.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah. So Fume gives you something different to reach for.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, the fidget part really makes sense to me. Sometimes the habit is just wanting something in your hand. I know for me, that's how I am. I always have something in my hand when we're recording. I have the fume. If you're watching on YouTube right now or even if you're listening, it's got a nice weighted design. It's made of real wood, real metal. You got the clicky thing here, kind of twisty. That's what I do a lot. And then you got the magnets, but I don't do the magnets because I don't want you yelling at me when we're recording.

[A]

It feels great in your hand even if you're not doing anything with it. I just like the way it feels. And I, I also like the idea of, you know, interrupting the pattern instead of just white knuckling it because maybe you're not even thinking about it consciously. Right. Your brain just goes, this is the part where we do the thing. Yeah, autopilot, Autopilot with, with bad suggestions. Okay. But with fume, you can use it or draw through it when that moment hits and it gives your hands and mouth something to do without nicotine, without vapor, without batteries.

[B]

Yeah. And the, and the flavors are intentionally lighter, which I really like. My personal favorite, I've said it a million times, is the orange vanilla, which is like a orange creamsicle.

[A]

Yeah. Actually, they like to compare the fume flavors to, like, more like flavored water compared to soda.

[B]

And so it's not about recreating the old habit. Exactly. It's about replacing that loop.

[A]

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[B]

So I wonder why she never said like, you want me to help you with them? Two people are better than one.

[A]

I think she did. And he said no.

[B]

I would imagine she was like, hey, what is it? I can help you. And he's like no, no, no.

[A]

Yep. So Cat's plan for that day was to go over to her mom's house, hang out with her dogs and then have Chandler come over later cuz they were going to see fireworks. So at 7:32am, Cat texted Chandler and asked if he wanted a breakfast burrito. And that Cat was under the impression that Chandler was gonna, you know, take like an hour or so to do chores because she'd said she'd seen some piles of grass outside the house that Chandler needed to take to the dump and then he would be over. It wasn't going to take long. She probably thought they would have breakfast together that morning. But then Chandler texted her at 7:46am and said, quote, sounds good. I'm doing kind of slowly. To be honest, I'm kind of sore. End quote. Now obviously Cat felt bad. She wrote to Chandler she could have stayed and helped him with his chores.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Yep. Because she knew that due to his injury, was having a hard time with his legs and physical activity could be difficult and exhausting for him. And he was like, I know, I know, but you don't need to do that.

[B]

He's a trooper. He's got this Stephanie.

[A]

He's like, I'm a man. I, I can't have you help me even though I need it, but you can get all my groceries for me. So at 7:47am, the neighbor security camera showed Bart Halderson Subaru leaving the house. And at that same time Chandler told cat, quote, I'll BRB, be right back, going to dump. End quote. At 7:49am, Chandler wrote, quote never mind, it's close. End quote. And Kat wrote back, well yeah, it is a holiday weekend. And then Chandler stopped responding to Cat's messages and this made her suspicious. Now she kind of makes it seem this time and multiple other times that she's just worried about him because of his illness and she thinks he might have passed out. But remember, Chandler has cheated on Cat before and she Knows this. And so I think they are texting back and forth so consistently throughout the day because it's kind of what Cat needs to make sure that when they're not together together, Chandler isn't with someone else.

[D]

At some point. There a series of messages from you. And. And then this one comes at 8:38. What do you say there?

[C]

Hey, did you pass out?

[D]

That's a question mark. Why would you send a message like that? Or why did you send a message like that?

[C]

I was worried because of the head injury. If he's over exerting himself, he might push himself too hard and pass out.

[D]

And you had sent him a series of messages that he hadn't responded to, Correct?

[C]

Correct.

[D]

At some point that day after you left, did you notice that Chandler was in a. Did you look at a Snapchat map to look at where he was?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And did you become worried or concerned in some way?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Showing it's been marked as exhibit number 532.

[C]

What is that screenshot of Chandler by the Wisconsin River.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And how's he labeled. What's his name there?

[C]

Hubby.

[D]

And what time is that?

[C]

8:58.

[D]

Okay. Why did you take this screenshot of Chandler's location?

[C]

I didn't know why he was there, and so I was curious.

[D]

Did you know where this location was?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And how did you know where this location was?

[C]

I'd been there before with Chandler.

[D]

Tell us about it.

[C]

It's a little spot where we can park our. Park our car and walk down to the Wisconsin river for swimming.

[D]

How many times do you think you've been there?

[C]

Two or three times.

[D]

Is this that screenshot?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

That's the location, right?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah. What did you do when you saw that location? Did you. You took a screenshot. Did you do anything else with that information?

[C]

I asked him what he was doing there.

[D]

What did he respond?

[C]

He was going to pick up CBD and he was passing through there.

[D]

Did you try to call him?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Okay. Did. Were you able to talk to him?

[C]

Yes. Okay.

[D]

Do you recall anything else from that conversation about what he said or why he was where he was?

[C]

He was picking up CBD for the pain. He didn't want to tell me that he was picking up CBD because he was scared I was going to be disappointed in him.

[D]

And around that time that you took that screenshot, was that when all of these messages were being sent that we looked at in this exhibit where no one was responding to you? Were you having trouble communicating with Chandler that morning between 8 and 9.

[C]

Essentially, yes.

[D]

When was the last time you were at that location? That. Out by the Wisconsin river with Chandler?

[C]

Approximately that summer with his friend Smith.

[D]

Is that Andrew Smith?

[C]

I don't know his first name. He always just went by Smith.

[D]

Okay, how did. What was your understanding of how Chandler knew this Smith guy?

[C]

They were video game buddies.

[A]

Okay, so first of all, we'll talk about how cats got Chandler on Snapmap. And for no, for people who don't use Snapchat, you can choose to share your location with your friends so that when they want to see where you are, it pops up your little avatar. I think Chandler's name on Snapchat was Chaz Dazzle or something stupid like that.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And so he's not responding to Cat for like an hour, which shows you how constantly they were in contact with. When he's not responding her to her for an hour, she pulls up his location on Snapchat because she wants to see where he is. And when she sees that he's not home and he's at the dump and he's at this random place, she's suspicious. Okay, this is a pretty isolated space. This is a place he's brought her before, but maybe he's brought other people there. And so she sends him the screenshot of him there on the Snap map. And she's like, what the hell are you doing here? And he's like, oh, I was getting cbd and I didn't want you to be disappointed in me because, like, cbd, what the hell does. Like, who cares about cbd, you know? So he makes up an excuse. Now, Cat also mentioned Smith. This is Andrew Smith. Andrew Smith was in the army, stationed in Germany when he met Chandler. While they were playing games together online in 2018 or 2019, they played Arma 3 and Escape from Tarkov together. And they interacted through text and voice channels on a public server. And they played together so often, almost every day. They eventually became very close friends. So when Andrew Smith was done in Germany, he returned to the United States with his family and he began living in Kansas. And at that time, Andrew said the frequency of him and Chandler playing games together increased because they were now in the same time zone. So In June of 2021, Andrew Smith, who's now in Kansas, he decided to pay a visit to Chandler in Wisconsin.

[E]

So it was one of those last minute decisions I was able to make. Sir. So my wife had ended up going to visit family in Ohio, and she was going to be gone for two weeks. So I went and Looked at, at how many points I had, I was able to take off work and I went and called off work that day so I could come up and have a weekend with driving up there and then spending two days with him.

[D]

Sir, It's a long drive up here.

[E]

No shit. Yes, sir.

[B]

It's okay.

[D]

Everyone slips up. Where'd you stay when you were up here with Mr. Halderson?

[E]

In their family home in the basement, sir.

[D]

Did you meet his parents?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

Okay, when you were up here, what kind of things did you. You do for fun? Where'd you go?

[E]

So we went swimming at some river at some point. And then we went drove around to the different department stores. Department stores. And we're looking at weapons and all that. So we went to Cabela's. We went to. I think it was. I want to say it was Bass Pro, but that doesn't sound right. I know we went to Gander Mountain and then we went to like one or two other places, but I can't remember what they were.

[D]

Did you take that picture?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

And what is that?

[E]

The river, sir.

[D]

That you went swimming?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

And who took you there?

[E]

Chandler and his girlfriend at the time,

[A]

Andrew Smith, stayed with Chandler and his family for about two days. He slept down in the basement. And during those two days, he and Chandler did normal things. They behaved like normal friends. They went to stores and looked at weapons, a passion they both shared. They went swimming in a local river, the same exact river where Chandler's snap map put him on the morning of July 3, 2021, when he wasn't responding to Cat's texts and she had to check on his location. Now more on that in a minute. But Andrew Smith was not going to be a bad house guest when he arrived. So he and Chandler had spent so much time together over the last several years and they'd grown so close. So Andrew decided to bring Chandler something special when he visited him in June of 2021.

[D]

When you visited Wisconsin to see Chandler, you brought him a gift?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

What did you bring him?

[E]

I brought him a 20 inch barrel SKS. So I had purchased it on, on a gun broker and I went and had it sent to my fl and then it went and sat in the fountain. So I went and did the FL transfer. So I purchased it initially because I really thought like, oh well, I like it in the video game, I might like it in real life. And then I fired it. It sat in my safe and then I never touched it again. And then it just dawned on me like well, I'm gonna give it to someone who might actually appreciate this weapon and take care of it and all that's. So I end up giving it to Chandler as a gift.

[D]

Okay, so while you like guns, you didn't particularly love this gun?

[E]

No, sir.

[D]

You know what that document is?

[E]

Yes, sir. It's a ffl, Transfer paperwork, sir.

[D]

And you've been saying the phrase ffl, correct?

[E]

Yes.

[D]

What does that mean?

[E]

That's a Federal Firearms License Holder.

[D]

Meaning someone who's licensed to sell firearms and fills out paperwork?

[E]

Yes. And does the correct background checks and such.

[D]

Got it. When you gave the gun to Chandler, did he pay you for it?

[E]

No, sir.

[D]

It was a gift?

[C]

Yes, sir.

[D]

Did you document in any way transferring that gun to him?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

How did you choose? Did you fill out paperwork like this?

[E]

I took his photo ID that the state issued him, and I took it right next to the serial number, indicating that this was me giving this weapon to this individual. So that way, if anything like this would occur, that it wouldn't necessarily come back to me.

[D]

It was important to you to document that?

[E]

Most times it is, yes.

[D]

Okay. Had Chandler asked you for this gun, or was this just your idea?

[E]

I think he had at one point asked for it as a joke, but mostly it was my idea, sir.

[D]

Okay, you brought him other things that go with the gun?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

What type of things?

[E]

So I had brought him a steel canister that had contained roughly 480 rounds of 762 x 39 steel case tool ammo.

[D]

And is that the ammunition that goes with that weapon?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

Do those appear to be that. That canister of ammunition?

[E]

Yeah. Yes, sir.

[D]

And are you fairly confident that's the one you brought?

[E]

Well, I mean, I'm the only weirdo that stencils his ammo can, so. Yes.

[D]

You put those stencils on there?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

When you say you stenciled this ammo can, what do you mean by that?

[E]

So I've got plenty of different kinds of rounds in my home, so I'll go and have different cans for them. And I take a spray can. I buy the stencil so I can make sure I know what I'm grabbing if I need something before I go to the rain, so I'm not running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to figure out what can goes to what.

[D]

So this. This yellow paint that says 762 by 39, that's you that stenciled that on there?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

How did Chandler react when you gave him the gun.

[E]

Oh, he was happy.

[D]

What do you mean? But how do you know he was happier? How do you. How do you know that?

[E]

Because he had a big smile on his face when I had given it to him as a gift.

[D]

Were you aware whether his. His parents that he was living with were. Were gun people or wanted guns in their home?

[E]

As far as I knew that or what was explained by Chandler was that his parents understood the reason. Reason of why firearms exist in this world and not that they necessarily support having them, but they're helpful in situations.

[D]

What did you do with. What did Chandler do with the gun? Were you able to figure out where he put it in the house?

[E]

Yeah, he had initially. So if you would walk down the fly stairs in the basement, you would look left, there was like a little wood pile and he had stuck it in the middle section there because it was. I understood that they might not be happy about having this firearm, so. But he had told me he was going to be moving soon to do a career in SpaceX in Florida, so he was just going to take it with him and move out there with it.

[D]

Were there any magazines that came with the gun?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[D]

Three. How many?

[E]

Three.

[D]

Were they loaded when you gave them to him?

[E]

Not initially, sir.

[D]

How did they become loaded?

[E]

I think we were bullshitting with the magazine, sir. And both of us and were like, he was asking me how to load it. So I was like, oh, you just. And I was showing him how to pack the magazine.

[A]

So apparently when. When Andrew gave Chandler the gun, he could tell that Chandler was happy because Chandler had a big smile on. So apparently Chandler does know how to smile and feel happiness when he is being handed a gun.

[B]

That's a nice. It's a nice gift to give someone. Those aren't cheap. But everything he said there is pretty much how it works. Gun broker. When he says that it's not an actual gun broker. It technically is, but it's Gunbroker.com. it's a website that is used by a lot of people. I've used it before. But you can't just buy a gun there and then it's shipped to your house. You have to go through an ffl, which is a. Usually a gun store that has a license where they can make that transfer from whoever you purchase the gun from online to your persons. As far as the actual gift of the gun, I don't want to go too far off the path here, but man, the fact that he had to hide the gun in a pile of wood, maybe that would have been the first indication that maybe I shouldn't be giving him this gun at this time. Maybe I should be holding on to it and waiting until he goes off to SpaceX. I don't know.

[A]

I don't think he cared all that much. Yeah, clearly, to be honest. I mean he's like, this is a 20 something year old kid, like whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'm probably, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about here. But that does explain how he obtained the gun, you know, that he ultimately used in a murder.

[A]

I think it's interesting that Andrew Smith was like, yeah, I gave it to him and I made sure that I like documented it in this way in case something like this happened. Where it's like, did you think something like this could have happened?

[B]

Well, yeah, that's, that's. And I will defend him here that that is the reason you document transfers of, of firearms. Because whether it's the person you give it to h does something like this or if the weapon is stolen, you, you want to make sure that you show the date and time where you were no longer in possession of that firearm. So I, he didn't say it the best, but he kind of shoots from the hip as you can tell from that testimony. And I think that's was that was his true genuine reaction. Like, hey, I want to make sure that if anything this gun's used in any capacity that's illegal. I'm clear.

[A]

But I, I would like to know, you know, and obviously he would never say it get in open court, but like was there any part of you from being so close to Chandler talking to him?

[B]

I knew he was a little off

[A]

knowing how gung ho he was about guns, specifically this type of gun and seeing how happy he was when he got it. Like was there any part of you that was like maybe I shouldn't. Yeah, maybe this guy shouldn't have a gun.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah, I would like to know. So we have Andrew Smith. He's the one that provides Chandler with the SKS rifle, the murder weapon. And he testified that Chandler kept it down in the basement because his parents would not be exactly happy about having the, the weapon in their house.

[B]

AKA sounds to me like they didn't want guns in their house.

[A]

They did not.

[B]

Yes, that's, that's, that's my takeaway from that statement is oh, wouldn't be happy, but they understand their uses. No, they didn't want firearms in their home.

[A]

They don't want them under the roof. Especially with all of that ammo. Right. Cuz that's, that's a lot of ammo. Now we know that detectives found the three magazines in the basement because they found them behind the insulation, hidden. And we know that eventually they found the stenciled metal ammo canister and in Chandler's bedroom. And this is the one where Andrew Smith is like, yeah, nobody but me would do this. Like I did this to like organize all my ammo because I had so much. But it would be a while before detectives would locate the rifle itself. It would be quite a while actually. He gets arrested in July, they don't find the rifle until October. So as far as the river that Andrew and Cat talked about, it is a very important location. This is the place that Chandler was known to go to with his friends, including his previous roommate, Alex Rabbit, who we've talked about, and his previous girlfriend, Dakota Brown. In fact, Chandler had once sent Dakota some pictures of him at that location by the river where he was by and in a specific tree overlooking the swamp and river line. And there's pictures of Chandler shirtless, climbing the tree. And in one picture, Chandler is looking directly at the camera while holding a large knife in his hand. This area is generally known as the Lower Wisconsin State Riverway. It sits in a very, very rural pocket of northwestern Dane county near the village of R. Roxbury, Wisconsin. So on July 3rd, the same day that cats on Snapchat the Chandler's over in this location, a woman named Jill Destefano was visiting her daughter in a place called Sock City, Wisconsin. So Jill was from St. George, Utah. She's visiting her daughter in Wisconsin. She's not familiar with the area or where everything is. She was outside playing with her granddaughter in the front yard of her daughter's house, which was two houses away from where there was some woods at the corner of Highway 188 and Jensen Road, also known as Old Highway 60. So Jill's daughter lived across the street from a large open lot. And on that day, between 8 and 9am Jill saw a man parked at the end of the street facing the woods. She saw him walk away from his car and then walk back towards his car. And he looked across the street where there was that wide open lot. And Jill said that she didn't see where the man ended up going, but when she saw him go back to his car, he didn't get into the car and drive away. And so she figured the only place he could have gone was into the woods. Woods which she later Found out those woods led to the Wisconsin River. Later, she asked her daughter if there were hiking trails back there because she said she saw a guy and she figured he might have been looking for a hiking trail. And her daughter said, no, people don't really hike in this area. They're usually going to be there for fishing or swimming because the river's that way. Jill Destefano would call the police on July 14th and report this sighting once she heard about Chandler's arrest because she saw his picture and she recognized Chandler as the man she'd seen that day. And then when Detective Shunk, who, remember, is one of the head detectives on the case, when Jill said where the location was, he recognized it and he was very familiar with it since it had been part of his beat when he worked patrol for the sheriff's office. He said it was one of the most northwestern parts of the county across the river from Prairie du Sac in the town of Roxbury. So it's very remote. It's so remote that it doesn't even have a post office. It doesn't have a police station, station, Nothing. So on July 14, several people were assigned to search that area, including Ryan Caputo, a Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources conservation warden. Once Caputo began a grid search of this area with others, he said the first indication to him and the other searchers was the smell. Next, Caputo spotted what he believed to be toes, a foot and part of a leg. And at that point he was like, I don't want to have anything to do with this. I'm not lying looking any closer. He immediately called the sheriff's department, and then investigators came and started processing the scene. They uncovered several severely dismembered remains scattered across two separate sites about 30 yards apart. There was a right leg, cut entirely from the foot all the way up to the hip socket. A left foot and lower part of a leg severed just above the ankle. There was an upper thigh portion, obviously toes connected to part of the foot. So these were two female legs. And DNA tested them to Krista Halderson. And where were those remains located exactly?

[D]

But she said at 8:58 in the morning, when he was supposed to be doing chores on Saturday, July 3, I thought it was strange that he was in what appears to be a forest on the banks of the Wisconsin river near Prairie du Sac, the police took that. They identified immediately where that location was. Just based on looking at it. That's a bridge. Couldn't be hard. Out they go. The drones go up, the dogs go out the search team starts searching very quickly, and I promise this is as far as the photos will go. They find the remains of Kristal. Now, when I say Christa Halderson, I have to qualify that as well. We found her legs. One complete leg, then somewhat farther away and another bush, a foot, a thigh, but the same pattern, crudely cut apart, what appears to be hand saws, axes, things of that sort. No more of Christer Halderson that's identifiable to her will ever be found. She's just those two legs. At this point, the police thought this is just a strange location. Why would Chandler be out there? He'd been out there before. And one friend even said, you know what? Last year, he sent me a picture while he was out there, kind of shirtless, hanging from a tree with a machete. I don't know. Didn't have a lot of significance at the time when the police saw it. But eventually someone realized the tree looks unique. Interesting V pattern right there. The hollowness of the tree as it goes down the way in which five of those branches branch off. And eventually one of the detectives realizes why. Something clicked. It was the exact location he ditched his mother's remains. That's about 100ft away.

[A]

Now, it's once again weird because he tries to burn parts of their bodies, but then he leaves Bart's torso kind of like under some leaves, and then he leaves these legs and dismembered parts. Parts of his mother's body, like on. On dry ground, Right. Like kind of hidden in a bush here and there. But then all the other parts of Bart and Krista are never found. And this is because the police believe that he put them in the water. And we'll talk about that more next time. And they say, listen, the Wisconsin river happens to be, I guess, a very good river to dispose of things if you don't want them to ever be found because of the currents. And they said even people drown in that river and they're not dismembered and their bodies are never found. So he. They believe that he got rid of a lot of the body parts in the river. But, like, why not these ones? Were you interrupted? Did you not have time? Why'd you bring the torso there? If. If you thought that the river would be a good place and things wouldn't be found, then why not all of the body parts? Like, that's. I don't understand that. But either way, now we have two locations where dismembered remains were found. The farm owned by Cress, the partner of Dolce, who's the mother, Chandler's girlfriend, cat. And then this area of the Wisconsin river where Chandler was known to like to go, where he'd been with people before, where he had pictures of himself hanging in the exact tree that his mother's legs would be found. Just 100ft away from that tree, we have remains being burned in the home fireplace. A torso found on the farm, legs found by the river. But where are the other remains? Where was the gun? And what kind of defense could Chandler Halderson possibly raise for all this evidence pointing against him? What were his actions like in the days after this? Because now he realizes cutting it apart, burning it, this, this, and that, it's not working. What. What else does Chandler do? And that's where we're going to pick up in the fourth and final installment of this series.

[B]

Yeah, I think at this point, while I. I'm interested to see where the defense goes, I'm sure it's going to have to do something with him being a victim in some way, shape or forming, having to defend himself. But putting that aside for, for this episode, and I said we would reconvene at the end and talk about it, for me, my takeaway hearing this story for the first time is there was definitely some planning done when it came to the. To the murders of his two parents. However, it wasn't well thought out. I do feel like Chandler is an impulsive person. And although he had maybe had thoughts of killing them in the past as one of their op, the options he could explore if need be. I think the actual plan and the execution. Execution of said plan was probably in the last couple hours before actually killing Bart when he realized, I'm in a corner. There's no other way out. My lies are up to my throat. I can't get out of this. I have to take him out. And, and that's indicative of the. Of the actual crime itself. And how many mistakes were made. Simple mistakes were made, including not considering the fact that your neighbors would have cameras. Also, I didn't want to interrupt your. Your vibe as you were talking about it, but even the magazines being found in that crawl space later, to me, that's not representative of him trying to hide those magazines after the fact. More than likely, he had four or five magazines for this SKS assault rifle. And this crawl space was probably a location where he kept multiple things he didn't want his parents to find. And he probably forgot that there were remaining magazines still in there because he would only need one magazine to Kill both of them. We're talking five, maybe six, six rounds at most, and probably a 20 to 30 round magazine. So he disposes of the gun and you said it was found later. We'll get into that. But the magazine that was in that gun probably went with it. And the other magazines remained behind with the vape attachments, the mouthpieces. Because he had so much going on, including having to navigate his girlfriend being

[A]

there, that there were a lot of blood. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. The fireplace and all this. It was like, hey, I have to kill them. I'm going to kill them. And I'll iron out the details later. That's the, that's what I take away so far in this series.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think of when Andrew Smith gave him the gun and he said Chandler was really happy? Do you think Chandler was really happy because he was like, here's how I can kill my parents or Chandler was just really happy to get the gun?

[B]

Probably really happy to just get the gun. I. He's. He's a gamer. He's someone who uses the SKS in that. In that game on multiple occasions. So, you know, I can see him being genuinely happy about the possession of the gun. I don't know why I'm saying this because it sounds like I'm doing defending him, but I don't think in that moment he's like, yes, finally the weapon to kill my parents. But do I think shortly after he was thinking about what he could do with that gun, maybe including killing anyone who could get in his way or who has wronged him? Yes, that's the type of person we're dealing with. Absolutely.

[A]

So do you think that if it hadn't been his parents that it eventually would have been someone else that he put that gun? Yes, without a doubt.

[B]

It's a combination of that classic story of, you know, we talk about school shooters and things like that where they're not playing the video game. The first person shooter games, like most people are, where it's, you know, enjoyment. It's a community space where you can hang out with friends and family and have fun. They're looking at it as living vicariously through that character, trying to envision themselves being the ones killing the other people in the game. They're looking at it from a different lens than most people. And so being in physical possession of the actual weapon, they're getting gratification from the game on a different lens level than most of us. So being in possession of a firearm that they're so accustomed to using in the game now it just gives them another level. And what's the next step once you have the gun, Actually using it?

[A]

Well, now you. Yes, now you. You want to use it in some way. Because that's not going to be enough to just have it now. It's always going to be in the back of your head when you're playing the video game. I have this. I can use it in real life. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, I. I think he decided, first I'm going to kill my parents, and then figured out the details later. And. Yeah, so many mistakes were made here that there's no way. This was a well thought out plan that he had been kind of stewing up for the last couple months. Yes. The idea of killing them, sure. But all the actual details involved with said murders, probably not until the last moment. Maybe not until that day when he realized, if I don't do something now, I'm gonna have to go to the school with my father.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So.

[A]

And that wasn't an option.

[B]

It's just his bar had back him into a corner. It was checkmate. And so there was no other alternative. But absolutely horrific story. And to think about these parents and the. And. And to be murdered by their own son.

[A]

Completely blindsided. Like I said, I don't think. I don't think either of them were ever like, this is a possibility.

[B]

No. God, no. And. And the only thing that we can take from it. And it's such a morbid way of looking at it, but it sounds like their deaths were quick.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A lot of the aftermath that we're talking about that is disgusting and heinous. They were no longer with us to experience that. So to me, for the. For their loved ones and their. The people that were close to them, that is something that you can take with you. That more than likely they were already gone.

[A]

Yeah. But poor Mitchell, you know?

[B]

Oh, God. I mean, listen, there's so many victims in this case that are residually affected by this for the rest of their lives, but there's not a lot you can take that's good from this. That would be one thing where they didn't suffer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm hoping to. That their deaths were quick.

[A]

Yeah. That the. Even maybe they didn't realize who was doing it.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. No. A fascinating case. I appreciate you breaking it down in the detail that you did. The investigative aspect of it is always so interesting when you can see how detectives from different agencies throughout the country can. Can conduct their. Their. This investigation in a way that's unique to them. And it really just high does highlight some good police work, which. Which we don't often see when we're covering these cases. Usually there's mistakes made, which is why it takes longer to solve them. But here, these guys really did a good job. They dotted their eyes, crossed their T's.

[A]

They were systematic about it.

[B]

And it didn't hurt that Chandler's a moron. So we appreciate you guys being here. I know this episode was long. I have been getting emails from you guys. We are currently working on a new case, potentially that we're going to fund for Criminal Coffee. I'm wearing the shirt today. So anybody who's reached out, anybody who's purchased coffee or purchased merchandise and has been following up, up with what's the next one? Trust me. Stephanie and I have been discussing it. It's in the works. We have also been donating to different organizations on your behalf. So if you want to go over to Criminal Coffee Co.com there's like a running banner where you can see all the organizations or foundations we've donated to on your behalf. One of the more recent ones being like Elizabeth Smart Foundation. We had an interview with her. We saw it as an opportunity to donate. We did. And so we wouldn't be able to do that, that without you guys. We appreciate the support. And if you want to join that fight against crime and helping people who've been affected by crime, Visit Criminal Coffee Co.com. that's going to be my spiel. We appreciate the love and support. We will see you next week. Until then, everyone stay safe out there.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

We'll see you soon.

[A]

Sam.