Session 17 ft. Lauren Miller

Summary

Crissle’s Couch – Session 17 ft. Lauren Miller
Date: March 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In Session 17 of “Crissle’s Couch,” host Crissle is joined by repeat guest Lauren Miller for an episode rich in candid advice, mutual vulnerability, and plenty of laughter. Together, they respond to listener letters on themes of isolation, self-improvement, difficult relationships, and the messy reality of building connections. Listeners get practical insight into issues like loneliness, ADHD, political differences in relationships, and the complex boundaries of friendship with someone struggling with addiction. The episode mixes empathy and directness, signature Crissle, with Lauren adding both levity and personal reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Self-Inflicted Isolation (Pascal’s Letter)

[00:49–13:43]

• Summary of Letter:
  Pascal, a 42-year-old Black woman in perimenopause, writes about her feelings of profound loneliness after “deep cleaning” her social circle, ending draining friendships and situationships, and withdrawing from dating and social media. She wonders if this isolation is a control issue and asks how to healthily open up to love and friendship.

• Crissle’s Take:

  • Recognizes the safety people find in isolation: “In isolation, we’re not going to get our hearts broken.” [03:10]
  • Highlights that humans are wired for connection, and total isolation often stems from lack of trust due to past hurts: “It might be a control issue, but at the root of it, it’s you wanting to keep yourself safe and not knowing how else to do that.” [04:30]

• Lauren’s Take & Memorable Quote:

  • Relates to the struggle, noting how being an only child and living alone increases isolation: “That is very isolating within itself. And then you’ve cut so many people off…” [04:49]
  • Stresses not rushing connection but making space for new and potentially loving relationships: “You haven’t even met all of the people in your life that’s going to love you.” [06:13]

• Practical Tips:

  • Seek therapy to address trust and vulnerability.
  • Accept that meaningful relationships require some risk and vulnerability.
  • Replenish your social circle after cutting ties and invest time in healing from past patterns.

• Discussion on Perimenopause:
  Both agree that life transitions can prompt reevaluation, but attribute Pascal’s changes more to self-reflection than hormonal shifts. [12:56–13:43]

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2. Feeling Stuck & Battling ADHD (Ms. Ross’s Letter)

[13:43–26:35]

• Summary of Letter:
  Ms. Ross, nearing 40, shares her struggles with perceived lack of accomplishment, depression, ADHD, and being dropped by her last therapist for not making enough progress. She asks if she can “trick herself” into healthier habits.

• Crissle’s Take:

  • Validates Ms. Ross’s struggles, highlighting how overwhelming compounding challenges can be: “That’s a lot you trying to go up against with no support…” [15:49]
  • Criticizes the previous therapist for failing Ms. Ross: “That’s kind of the exact opposite of what therapy’s supposed to be like.” [17:04]

• Lauren’s Advice:

  • Reframes the question: “Even you writing in… it’s about grace and treating yourself how you would treat somebody else.” [19:14]
  • Explains the need to gamify life for ADHD brains—shares her experience with the Finch app and lists: “Brush my teeth, get out of bed, drink water, do one thing that makes me happy today.” [21:16]

• Practical Techniques:

  • Use gamification and to-do lists to make self-care and chores engaging. [22:08]
  • Leverage online ADHD and mental health resources.
  • Be gentle and forgiving with setbacks—shame doesn’t work as motivation: “If shame worked, we would all be [fixed]...” [20:04]
  • Structure daily tasks with reminders and calendars.

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3. Political Differences in Relationships (Bradford’s Letter)

[26:35–37:43]

• Summary of Letter:
  Bradford, 26, from a wealthy Manhattan family, details a loving, long-term relationship with his Black boyfriend, who is “Republican adjacent,” unlike liberal Bradford and his family. He wonders if he should address the issue, especially since he is considering proposing.

• Crissle & Lauren’s Analysis:

  • Crissle lays it out: “Normally I would say, absolutely, this is worth the conversation… I can’t be with a Republican… For you it obviously isn’t.” [30:24]
  • Lauren questions the utility of a conversation if Bradford isn’t willing to break up: “If you’re literally saying, hey, I’m not gonna break up with him because of this, so then why bring it up, baby?” [31:11]
  • Both point out the internal conflict: “It’s bothering you enough to type this all up and email me about it.” (Crissle) [31:40]
  • Suggest Bradford reflect deeply before proposing: “You need to really have a deep, personal conversation with yourself about what really matters to you… are you willing to compromise those for the sake of this relationship?” [34:21]
  • Discuss the complexities of queer identity and Republican politics: “There’s a whole group called the Log Cabin Republicans…” [35:16]

• Actionable Insight:

  • If core values clash, be honest about how much it really matters, and have the tough conversation before legal or emotional commitments deepen.
  • If you’re unwilling to leave, bringing up a contentious issue may just cause unnecessary tension.

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4. Learning to Open Up in Dating (Darla’s Letter)

[37:43–46:49]

• Summary of Letter:
  Darla, 30, describes herself as closed-off despite finally meeting a man she might like. She fears she has a problem since she’s not sure how to be open, risks numbing herself, and wonders whether she should keep dating him or move on.

• Lauren’s (Humorous) Analysis:

  • Jokes about calling out avoidant attachment styles: “She sounds avoidant, right? So that’s avoidant, right?” [39:32]
  • Validates Darla’s caution: “Pattern recognition… is saying, this is some bullshit. Get me out of here.” [40:07]

• Crissle’s Guidance:

  • Encourages giving the connection more time: “Give your system a chance to really build something with somebody else… if the flags keep coming up green, that’s a sign to let the trust develop.” [41:27]
  • Explains discomfort when experiencing healthy love after toxic patterns: “You’re overwhelmed by the good of it and so you numb yourself out of it… your nervous system is conditioned and primed for garbage.” [43:29]

• Key Takeaways:

  • Take things slowly—vulnerability and trust take time and repeated positive experiences to develop.
  • “You’re not wasting nobody’s time if he wanna be around you.” (Lauren) [42:05]
  • Use journaling and therapy to process overwhelming emotions about intimacy.

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5. Setting Boundaries with a Friend in Addiction (Jackie’s Letter)

[46:54–58:49]

• Summary of Letter:
  Jackie writes about her alcoholic friend, who is mean and often accuses Jackie (and her mother) of being jealous or unsupportive. Jackie feels guilty for wanting to cut the friend off, fearing she is “kicking her while she’s down.”

• Crissle’s Empathy and Directness:

  • Explains the guilt might stem from being taught to take care of others at her own expense: “You were raised to take care of other people, to always consider what they have going on…”
  • On addiction: “She is not under your care. That’s not abandonment.” [54:32]
  • On drawing boundaries: “You get to say, ‘I’ve had enough of the way you treat me and I’m going to step back from this relationship.’” [51:52]
  • “If it was up to you, she would be sober and happy… but you don’t deserve to be mistreated.” [58:09]

• Lauren’s Practical Framing:

  • Advocates for clearly communicating boundaries: “Let her know, this will be the reason why I cut you off…It’s the way you treat me.” [52:36]
  • Suggests leaving a door open: “If she ever does… you can hold that space for her.” [55:52]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You have to give people the chance to hurt you.” – Crissle [08:53]
• “You haven’t even met all of the people in your life that’s going to love you.” – Lauren [06:17]
• “If shame worked, we would all be [fixed]...” – Crissle [20:04]
• “Gamify your life. And if you want to trick yourself…making lists.” – Lauren [22:03]
• “I can’t be with a Republican, not even like a moderate Republican. That’s not for me.” – Crissle [30:39]
• “You’re not wasting nobody’s time if he wanna be around you.” – Lauren [42:05]
• “You do have to…let yourself have some experience with feeling the joy of it too, baby.” – Crissle [46:45]
• “You cannot abandon an alcoholic woman… She is not under your care.” – Crissle [54:32]

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Episode Timeline & Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 00:49–13:43 | Pascal on Isolation & Trust Issues | | 13:43–26:35 | Ms. Ross on Feeling Stuck & Gamifying Life | | 26:35–37:43 | Bradford’s Political Divide in Relationship | | 37:43–46:49 | Darla on Fear of Intimacy & Vulnerability | | 46:54–58:49 | Jackie’s Friendship with an Alcoholic |

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Tone & Vibe

The conversation throughout is warm, honest, and lightly irreverent, balancing tough love and solidarity. Crissle leans into her wisdom and lived experience, while Lauren provides humor and additional personal perspective. The language is relatable, conversational, and authentically rooted in care for the listeners—even when truth-telling stings a bit.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Chrissa's Couch, the show where I answer your letters for advice and talk to the most interesting people in the world. Today I am joined again by Lauren Miller.

[B]

I'm here.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming back on the show. No problem.

[B]

It's my pleasure always.

[A]

How are you doing with all of this mess with the weather in the

[B]

city, Girl, the snow. Okay, so the snow is one thing, but then the cold was another thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I don't know how I'm surviving.

[A]

It's been pretty gross. So I do appreciate you making the trek to come do the show with me today. I'm so. You were so much fun the last time I spoke. Gotta get that girl back in here. Thank you. All right, are you ready to jump into the inbox with me?

[B]

I am. We got the little text set up

[A]

so, you know, we try to do a little something.

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

All right, who's up first?

[B]

Okay, so we have Pascal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He says. Or she, but it says, hey, Krystal, I love the new show and I'm really proud of you, your personal growth and journey thus far. So I'm happy to report that I'm starting therapy soon. But I have a dilemma. I'm a 42 year old perimenopausal black woman, only child, single, no kids, live alone and have a very small circle of friends and family that do not live close by. I want your opinion on self inflicted isolation. Last year I did a lot of deep cleaning of my social circle and ended a lot of friendships and romantic connections. From imbalanced, emotionally draining friendships to unserious situationships, everything got chopped, cut off, period. I think perimenopause shifted my priorities quite a bit. I grew a lot last year and those choices brought me a lot more peace to my life. Of course. But now I'm just in my apartment alone all the time. Since I work from home, I decided to take a break from the dating and social media apps to reset for the new year because I find that I use them to temporarily fill my void of loneliness.

[A]

It's real.

[B]

This is triggering. I yearn for true love and connection in my life, but I've always found that hard to achieve and maintain. I'm not always the best at working through interpersonal conflict and have a deep mother wound. So I will be focusing on that with my therapist. I am now at a point where I don't even want to try to go out and make new friends or meet new men to date because I'm so tired of Things ending. I. I know the only way to change my extreme loneliness and isolation is to get in the field and try. But I only truly feel safe when I'm abstaining from it all. I'm wondering, if this is a control issue, do I need to approach it differently? How can I healthily open up to the possibility of deep love and a true friendship? Again, peace and love, Pascal.

[A]

Well, Pascal, I think you might be onto something with the control thing. Oh, you know what?

[B]

I said this was triggering. Here I am back with an isolation thing. The last time I was like, I don't need people, but this one is kind of like, somebody recently told me I was controlling. So I have a question for you at the end of this. But, yes, somebody recently told me that I have a need for control. So let's hear what you have to say.

[A]

Okay, well, so based off of what Pascal has said about her background, and you've gone through some stuff and you're about to start therapy and all this, but it's very, very common for us to choose to isolate because we know in isolation we're not going to get our hearts broken. We know that when we keep to ourselves, like, yes, things may be lonely and we may not be fulfilled, but we also don't run the risk of heartbreak and being devastated, lied to, things like that. So the problem is that, of course, those things aren't fulfilling. We are. Humans are naturally wired to want other. I'm so sorry. That is true. But we are wired for connection with other people. We want to be around others quite naturally. It's just part of who we are. And so the fact that you only feel safe in isolation is definitely something to bring up with your therapist. It sounds like you don't really trust people, anybody, but especially in a romantic connection. And, you know, that's. That's valid because a lot of us, you know, we take a look at our dating experiences, like, huh, liar, liar, cheater, couldn't get over his ex mommy issues. Liar, liar. You know, it's like, damn, there's actually a lot of reasons that I don't trust these people. But I see how you've gotten here. And it might be a control issue, but I think at the root of it, it's you wanting to keep yourself safe and not knowing how else to do that. What do you think, Lauryn?

[B]

So a lot of it, like, where I was feeling triggered for her is that she's an only child. Like, no kids, live alone. Like, wow, I didn't realize that. That is very Isolating within itself. And then you've cut so many people off. Because like for me it was just like I just don't like people playing with my time. Like don't play with me. Like we could have fun for the time that we're having fun but. But don't think you're playing me. So it's more of like a respect thing where I would just be like, yeah, you're done, we're done. I don't even wanna just have fun with you. But she said, like you said, she said she doesn't feel safe. That is something that she really does need to talk to about with a therapist. Because that within itself is isolation, that's unhealthy. Like you said, we do need to be around people, we need to have community. Because your mental health is about to plummet if you're just at home, working from home, living at home.

[A]

Woo. Girl, please.

[B]

In this snow, in this weather.

[A]

Girl, girl, I know too much about it.

[B]

We want to see you next year. So we want you to work on trying to even like it shouldn't feel like a mountain you're climbing to make new friends. Someone said, and I know everybody's heard this before, like you haven't even met all of the people in your life that's going to love you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So take that and think about it. Like people are going to love you. Just go out to the bar and have a conversation and that person might think about you for months to come. You know, it doesn't have to always be so let's get married, let's do this, let's do that. Just have certain connections and the control of that is don't hold on so tight that you break it, just let it go.

[A]

Right. I love that. I completely agree. I think when she said, you know last year I just went through and cut everybody off. Basically I just did a big deep cleaning and situationships and draining friendships that were imbalanced and all this like all of that had to go. That makes sense. But you, where are you meeting? Replenish. Right.

[B]

It's like you cut off all these people, but you got to replenish.

[A]

You have to heal what was going on. To have you nurturing these unbalanced friendships or unserious situationships in the first place. And that is probably why you're having such issues now with trust.

[B]

You're like, cause she's still going for those same type of people and you're recognizing it again, like these are the same type of people. I can't you need to heal that so that you can make healthier relationships and that you don't feel like I'm gonna have to cut these people off.

[A]

Right. Right when you got off the apps, which I rec. Everybody take a break from the apps. Because that can be such dating apps and websites, they can be so draining and demoralizing. So I get it. Sometimes they're great. And there are, you know, there are success stories, but for every success story, there's 20 horror stories. So I get it. You don't want to put forth the effort or anything. I really think talking to the therapist is going to help you work through some of this. But, yeah, to me, it sounds like without trust, it's really impossible to have deep, meaningful connections in your life because you have to be vulnerable in order to have people close to you. And being vulnerable is giving people the opportunity to hurt you, to shit on you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You're giving them.

[B]

Sorry, Lauren, no, you're giving them. You are. When you're vulnerable, you're giving them the softest part of you and being like, see me, hear me, feel me. And somebody could be like. Like, I don't care. Or they could use it against you. But don't. You can't put that in the forefront of your mind. Like you said, you have to get the last time I also took this with me. You have to give people the chance to hurt you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just.

[A]

You do.

[B]

One chance, right?

[A]

At least one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wouldn't recommend a whole lot more than that, but this is also. It's a good idea to remember that, like, you don't. This is why we don't rush into intimacy. This is why we don't rush. And I don't mean sex.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

I mean being emotionally vulnerable with other people. You don't rush into that. We're not trying to. I just met you last week and now we're best friends. I have.

[B]

Oh, my God. Sorry. No, you have a person that, like, in my life that makes. He makes, like, people feel like they're the closest person to him. They be checking in with him 3:00am like, oh, I'm getting on my flight. And then he just goes ghost. And I'm like, why do you do this to people?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Why do you do this? Why do you make them think that they're your friends or they're close friends, and then they think that you're their person, they're your new best friend and all the other stuff? And then all of a sudden it's just like, oh, but that's just how I am. I'm like, but that's not fair. And you need to work on that because they think that they're building something with you and you're just in limerence

[A]

real quick, you know? Right. And you. So that's why when people, you know, if I meet somebody and they're like, hey, bestie, it's like, okay, bestie. That's fun to joke about. Like we are not that. And you know, ain't gonna be no calling me at 3am Girl, somebody need to be dead or dying for you to be calling me at that hour.

[B]

Yeah. Where is your circle that you already have of support? You're an admin to that, but I'm not your emergency contact.

[A]

Greatness and true vulnerability like that real trust is only developed with time. It is. You cannot rush it. You can't microwave your way into being close, intimate friends with somebody. So you definitely can open up to the possibility of deep love and true friendship again. But you're gonna have to have patience with the process. Patience with yourself, patience with others. Are you too quick to cut a bitch off? Are you too strict? These are questions you can ask yourself or again, work with a therapist about. But yeah, this is a situation where I think some healthy self awareness and a willingness to get out there and build with somebody. It's a process. It's not gonna happen like that. But when it does happen, it's so sweet. It's so beautiful. It is. It really is. And then you're vulnerable like you said. You're giving them the opportunity to shit on that. You are. But hopefully you've developed such a level of trust that you can be reasonably sure that this person is not going to treat you that way.

[B]

Yeah, I joke a lot. But like, I have a lot of important loving people in my life, my family that are chosen. Family that like no matter what and if I beat a dead horse, they're still like, this is a safe space. I don't care. You can keep talking about it like with someone else will probably be like, are you still, like, I didn't know you were still going through that or something. Which is like, that's who you know. That is not a safe space. And this is the person that you.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That this horse is dead.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And this person is just like, it's okay, it's fine, I got it. I understand that you need to talk it over one more time.

[A]

Right? Cause I mean a lot of us go through stuff and one conversation is not gonna heal or fix or completely resolve everything we're going through. Sometimes we have to rehash. Like, sometimes a friend gets into it with her husband, and then two months later, she get into it with her husband again. And it's like, yeah, you can come and vent to me about that. I'm not gonna be like, well, dad, why you ain't divorced him? Like, just, Savannah, slow down.

[B]

Right, Savannah, he's a good man. He's a good man. I just had to tell him, pick his socks up, all right, get them out the couch. But he's still a good man.

[A]

Yeah, you can definitely get there, though. Pascal, I'm so happy you're gonna start therapy soon. I think it will really help. But, yes, best of luck to you as you try to establish some safer and healthier connections before we move on from that.

[B]

Was. She said she was perimenopausal, and she think that, like, that really shifted her priorities and why she cut off a lot of people. What's your take on that?

[A]

Well, I unfortunately don't know too much about perimenopause, which is crazy. Cause I'm knocking on that door. I'm sure. But I've never heard of it making you stricter. Right. But I can see how being perimenopausal and going through those changes would make you take a step back and evaluate where your life is. Okay. Like, I'm moving into another level of adulthood here, and I don't want to carry.

[B]

It's a new chapter, and I don't want that to carry on.

[A]

I don't want to carry the same stuff that I've been doing all my life. These same unhealthy patterns or people. I think it's probably more of that. Less of like, my hormones told me to stop talking to you. But either way, Pascal, wishing you the best of luck.

[B]

Absolutely. Okay, so now we have Ms. Ross.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Ms. Ross said hello. Christine. I am reaching out because I have been stuck in a rut for over a decade. And despite my best efforts, I still fall short of making change. I'm almost 40 and have never really accomplished anything. No degrees, no sports, no employee of the month.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I have not accomplished reading, no degrees, no sports, no employee of the month, nothing. I am raising my special needs teen with very little help. Both my mom and I have autoimmune issues and we are all in a two bedroom apartment. We've been through trauma, constant stress and isolation due to finances, lack of reliable and affordable transportation, and virtually no village to commune with another community problem. As for Me, I battle depression, adhd, PTSD and anxiety. I take meds and I'm on a wait list for therapy. Now every time I to start to do healthier things like exercise, eating better food, reducing my screen time, I can never stick with it. Whenever I take on a new task, like studying for a real estate license, I get overwhelmed and quit. My last therapist saw I wasn't making progress and was resisting her suggestions, so she pretty much dropped me as a client. She said I should seek out different forms of therapy, but I'm sure she knew I wouldn't. Whoa.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

With that being said, what in the good God damn do I do? Do I trick myself into sticking to healthy coping mechanisms instead of continuing to run on this hamster wheel of fuckery? Thank you for any suggestions. Love, Ms. Ross.

[A]

Ms. Ross. Love how you phrase that by the way. Those are some fun words.

[B]

Hamster wheel of fuckery.

[A]

Fuckery. And you know when you have sucked so much working against you, it is so easy to keep going in that

[B]

cycle of like, just do them just like, okay, well who cares? Let's just keep going this way, right?

[A]

Especially because when that's what's comfortable or familiar, it can be, it's second nature. You don't even think about it. Like you're trying to break out of those patterns and do something new. But your brain wants familiarity, your brain wants to do what it already knows, even if that's not what's best for you. So you have a lot of things working against you. And I want you to first and foremost be very gentle with yourself and patient with yourself. Because most people, if they were 40 years old with health issues, they're in a place that's too small for their family, especially through a lot of trauma, stress, the finances are not there, transportation's not there, no outside village. And then, and then you got depression, anxiety, ptsd, adhd. Baby, that's a lot you trying to go up against with no support to kind of lift you and help keep you going when things get hard. So first and foremost, please don't beat yourself up for not doing the things that you think you're supposed to have done. Like you mentioned, you have never accomplished anything. You know, no degrees or employee of the month or whatever.

[B]

But you have a job, right?

[A]

I mean, it sounds like it. Taking care of your kids, you're taking care of a kid with special needs, which is another baby. That's a full time job by itself. Okay, so, you know, I, I'm sorry to hear this about your last therapist Saying, you know, you not making no changes, so I'm gonna drop you. That's kind of the exact opposite of what therapy's supposed to be like. If. If that therapist wasn't equipped to help you, then they should have referred. Yes. And they should have said, I am not the therapist for you. I do not have the training, the skills, the expertise, whatever, to support you. So I am gonna refer you to some other people. Here's someone you can try. Hopefully this works out for you. But, like, I am not equipped to take care of you. Not. You are failing at therapy. And so I gotta drop you. Do better.

[B]

You're just not every therapist is a good therapist.

[A]

Very true.

[B]

Not every therapist.

[A]

Very true. So I'm sad that you've had that experience. Experience. But. And you're on a wait list for therapy, hopefully that clears up and you get placed with someone who can actually work with you soon. Because one of the things that is so great about therapy is that when we are shown unconditional positive regard, we very slowly, which is why therapy is a process, we very slowly start to give ourselves that same unconditional positive regard where it's like, damn, I have been through so much, and I come in here sometimes and I've done great. And sometimes it feels like I've regressed, you know, a year or more. And yet, regardless of how I'm doing, my therapist is meeting me where I am and helping me and treating me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like I'm worth the effort. Treating me like I'm worth the work it takes to really heal and move on. That is what a therapist should feel like to you. That no matter what you go. And I mean, that doesn't mean you can go in there and, like, cuss them out, abuse them, things like that. But something like this, your therapist should be more equipped to handle. I really do think so.

[B]

She should have saw that you were trying to climb an uphill battle. And like, you. What I would give to you is saying, like, even you writing in this and asking, what do I do? Like, how do I trick myself into healthy coping mechanisms? It's like, you want the help. It's not that you're saying, you know what? Fuck, I don't need no help. I'm good. Like, I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing. You're showing that you want the help, so, like, give yourself that grace. It's about grace and treating yourself how you would treat somebody else. You're not going to talk to your mother like that. You wouldn't talk to your son like that. You wouldn't talk to somebody that you love like that. Treat your. Turn that on yourself. Turn that on yourself.

[A]

Yeah. The way you talk to yourself is so huge because sometimes we feel bad and then we kick ourselves for feeling bad. And it's like, well, damn, what choice?

[B]

If shame worked, we would all be

[A]

like, come on now. Come on in the room. If shame was an effective motivator, everybody would be motivated, right? Because shame is plentiful, okay? It just. It's simply not effective, especially in the long term. And so I would say, you know, you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because it could be that you need medication for depression, but you have these autoimmune issues, so there's certain medications you can't take or, you know, things like that. So I think a combination of therapy and whatever medication would be great here. But also do your Googles, especially with stuff like adhd. There are so many resources online, so I would just, you know, ADHD and exercise start. Bam, start right there. There's gonna be a bunch of websites that come up that say, this is what people. People with ADHD need to turn everything into a game.

[B]

Oh, my God. I was just about to say that.

[A]

Who were you? You have it too? Yes, everybody I know does.

[B]

So I have. Let me go to my phone right now.

[A]

Okay. I have this thing I'm about to show y'.

[B]

All. If you see, it's like, it says, I have a visitor. And I greet my little thing. So I have a Finch and. And her name is Drew.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

So welcome back, Lauren. And everything that I need to do. Well, this is bad. Cause it's only a one day streak.

[A]

I should have been doing adhd. Adhd.

[B]

But look, I put everything on here and. Okay, fresh start.

[A]

We got it.

[B]

Let me get that. So, look, brush my teeth, get out of bed, drink water, do one thing that makes me happy today. Take a stretch break, you know, work out, make my 8% and go when I'm trading, you know? And then someday when I really have bad days is just literally survive the day.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, you need to do that. And then, like, when you click that off, you get points.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you need to gamify your life. And if you want to trick yourself. I was about to say making lists.

[A]

I love lists. Like, I'm a list of reminders. Click it off.

[B]

I did it. I did it. But also try to get stuff like that, that, like, you get. I get costumes.

[A]

I get like, oh, fun.

[B]

When they have the seasonal things come out. You get limited edition items. So gamify your life. And it might sound trivial, but it helps.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You see like, you see yourself clicking off things that you've done so that you don't need an outside medal. You're giving yourself that medal.

[A]

Mm, I love that. There's quite a few apps like that that turn like little. Like you brush your teeth, you click the thing and then confetti comes out and it's like, you did it. Congrats. And there's the pomodoro methods. Very, very popular where you spend. You can customize it. I think there's an online timer so you can customize it to what works for you. But it's like you spend 20 minutes doing a task and then you can either take a short break or a long break and then you do it again. One thing that I do that I found very useful is that I put my to do list on my calendar. And so instead of comes up time wise, instead of errands in a list, it's like, oh, on my calendar tomorrow, I have to go check the mail. I have to go pay this bill, and this and this. And it's just all mapped out on my calendar the same way you would doctor's appointments or anything else. Because it's right there in front of my face. The phone is reminding me every time I pick up the phone, like, bitch, you got these things today, they're on your calendar today. And sometimes they do get rescheduled. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not saying I'm always on top of it, but it's a way for me to stay mindful and to do my best while I'm trying to work with the adhd, trying to work with the things that are holding me back.

[B]

You know, being an adult is hard.

[A]

It is, it's hard.

[B]

And I did not know that when I was a kid that this would be this hard. Okay. Because it's hard. Like you gotta do work, you gotta do self care. You do, you gotta do your hair

[A]

like you gotta, you gotta take care of your home.

[B]

I gotta take care of my dog, your kids.

[A]

Like this is too much. It's a lot.

[B]

And I'm also at that point where like, if it's not on my calendar, I don't.

[A]

It doesn't exist.

[B]

It doesn't exist.

[A]

It really don't.

[B]

Said. You said what?

[A]

When?

[B]

Let me write that down right now, immediately.

[A]

Cause I'm not gonna remember, baby, I have to have it in the calendar. If it's not in my calendar, it isn't a real task. So listen. Yeah, I would definitely recommend that just the things you want to try to do, turn it into a game or make it, like, it could even be, I'm folding the laundry. Let me see how fast I can fold up all the T shirts. Let me see how fast I can put all the socks up.

[B]

When she says, how do you trick yourself? You really have to like that. You gotta gamify your life, romanticize your life. Whatever word that you wanna use. You have to make your life fulfilling and make it interesting to you.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Whatever might work for someone else might not work for you. What you have to do is just make your life fun and make it worth you living it.

[A]

Right? Good luck, Ms. Ross. It is very hard. Very hard. ADHD is so. It is just so frustrating. And it can take such a long time to figure out things that work for you.

[B]

I took that as, like when she said she never won, like, employee of the month. No degrees, no other stuff. And I also want to know, when did she get diagnosed? Because a lot of that stuff, you can start beating up yourself. Cause you don't know that it's something wrong, that your brain is not working like everybody else's. And the way that school is made up is not for us.

[A]

Oh, no, it's not. It is not. It's not. Not past, like the second grade. Once they stop playing games with you,

[B]

they said, yeah, figure it out.

[A]

You're on your own. We thrive in kindergarten when you can sit on a rug and have story time and shit. But after that, it gets a little tough. So give yourself some grace. Google adhd and then whatever you trying to do and try to learn those tests until you can get in to see a therapist or whatever other medication. But just don't give up on yourself. Because again, I'm so mad at this therapist you had. You are worth the work. Please don't forget that. You're worth the effort. You absolutely are.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

You absolutely are. Good luck, babe. All right. You got this, miss Rose. You do. You got it. Who's next?

[B]

Bradford.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Hi, Crystal. My name is Bradford. I'm 26, born and raised in Manhattan. I'm writing because I'm grappling with something and would really love your insight. I'm from the Upper east side and was raised in an affluent family.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

I'm very aware that this level of access and privilege isn't universal. And my parents worked hard and still made rhettish.

[A]

Now I know he was up there. You said, oh, Rich from the Upper east side. He's from London.

[B]

He's not even from the U.S. right? And my parents worked hard and still remind myself and my older sister to make sure we understand that. I've been with my boyfriend since I was 19. We broke up briefly when we were 21, found our way back to each other a year later, and have been solid ever since. We grew up together, attended the same schools until college, share mutual childhood friends, and live just two blocks apart. So is that Upper east side too, right?

[A]

I mean, gotta be.

[B]

Okay, so my boyfriend is black, and my parents love him deeply. Not because of status or proximity, but because of who he is. I feel incredibly lucky in that regard. Where I struggle is politics. I'm very liberal, as are my parents and older sister. My boyfriend doesn't explicitly identify with a political party, but he's Republican adjacent. Oh, Lord. Not MAGA extreme, but still Republican. His family is loving and warm, and I truly feel like a part of it. His parents and brothers are not homophobic at all and constantly joke about when we'll get married. That said, his dad is also a Republican.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Yeah. While he's denounced some of Trump's actions, he's vocal about issues like cutting food stamps and believes people need to get up and work so he doesn't have to trickle down through taxes.

[A]

Oh, Lord.

[B]

Being around those conversations can be challenging for me. I bet. My boyfriend is generally aloof about politics, but he tends to co sign his dad when these topics come up. As the baby of his family, I think his father's approval means more to him than he'd admit. Their household is politically divided. His mom and one brother are liberal and his dad and another brother are Republican, and my boyfriend floats somewhere in the middle. I am not considering breaking up with him. He is my person, and I'm actually hoping to propose sometime this year. That's cute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So here's my question. Is this something worth addressing, or is it better to let it be? We don't argue about politics privately. These comments only surface when his dad brings things up and my boyfriend instinctively agrees. Yeah, neither of us wants children, so that removes one major concern. Outside of this, he is kind, funny, deeply loving, giving, attentive, and an incredible partner. Should I leave this alone, or is it worth having a thoughtful conversation with him about why this bothers me, even if it risks discomfort? Given how close he is with his dad, I know he would listen, but I worry about where the conversation would possibly lead. I Truly appreciate any insight you're willing to share. Much love and respect. Bradford.

[A]

Bradford.

[B]

That's an interesting letter. It is.

[A]

Cause it sounds like Bradford is white, the boyfriend's black, and yet Bradford's family is more liberal than. Well, I mean, the boyfriend, this. Yeah. Bradford family. Bradford is more liberal than the boyfriend.

[B]

Than the boyfriend who is split 50, 50.

[A]

Kind of Republican, which.

[B]

Yeah, like.

[A]

But not uncommon with rich black people. Cause they be like, I don't understand why y' all still down there.

[B]

Could keep my money.

[A]

It's giving Carlton.

[B]

But.

[A]

Okay, so here's the thing. Normally I would say, absolutely, this is worth the conversation because this is someone you plan on sharing your whole life with. Like, I definitely want us to be on the same page politically because that's something that matters a lot to me.

[B]

It does.

[A]

I can't be with a Republican, not even like a moderate Republican. That's not for me. So for me, this would be a deal breaker. For you it obviously isn't. And I would say there's no point for you to bring up this. Excuse me, there's no point in you bringing up the conversation because you've already said you're not gonna break up with him. In fact, you're going to propose, so

[B]

why would you cause discourse. Why do that?

[A]

For what?

[B]

For what? If you're literally saying, hey, I'm not gonna break up with him because of

[A]

this, so then why bring it up, baby?

[B]

You know the meme where she like.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

What are we arguing for?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you packing your bags? No.

[A]

All right, shut up. Yeah, I mean, basically because you. I think what's causing you some distress here is that you really care deeply about this Bradford. You do. Yeah. You care a lot. And the Republican comments really do bother you.

[B]

But you're trying to act like you don't.

[A]

But you're trying to act like you don't. Or you're trying to act like, I like this man so much that this stuff doesn't really matter and I can just get over it. But it's bothering you enough to type this all up and email me about it. I'm just saying it's obviously

[B]

it's having

[A]

a reaction to it so much.

[B]

It bothered you so much that now I'm in it.

[A]

Yeah, literally. So I think it's worth it for you to take some time to yourself and really think about, like, how much is this going to affect me? Because you said the daddy has denounced some of Trump's stuff, but some of it.

[B]

Cuz I don't Think anything Trump denounces.

[A]

Not one fucking thing, though.

[B]

So what did he not denounce?

[A]

He's a big fan of, you know, keeping taxes where they are. Rich people not paying higher taxes and probably kicking people off food stamps. He's probably thrilled about that. People who have never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, mind you.

[B]

So what are we talking about?

[A]

People comfortable enough to live on the Upper West. Upper east side. Yeah. Old money Upper East. Yeah. Private school. And you got horses and shit. You have a house in Connecticut.

[B]

Equestrians.

[A]

Right. Literally. Like you over there with the real money. So I think you maybe need to be a little bit more honest with yourself about how much this is affecting you, I think.

[B]

But.

[A]

But if it isn't, if, you know you're not gonna let him go.

[B]

I think this letter was, like, a little confusing because you also said that he's kind of aloof with politics. Like, he doesn't really care, and he just. It's probably like he just wants the approval.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm about to say something that's not really. Like, when his dad dies, do you think, like, ooh, like, he probably would really not care.

[A]

Probably. So, I mean, or maybe he decides to lock in with his father's belief in, like, trying to honor him and

[B]

then think about, would you still be okay with that?

[A]

Right. And what are you going to do if y' all do get married in a few years down the line? Or let's say, you know, when Trump's second term, which is constitutionally supposed to be his last.

[B]

You mean. You mean his dictatorship, right?

[A]

When Trump decides he's not leaving office and he's going to become the dictator of. Of whatever is left of America by then, Is this still gonna be okay with you? This sort of half Republican, half in, half out type of bullshit? Cuz it's bad now, baby. What if it gets worse?

[B]

I don't think if. I think when.

[A]

I mean, listen, I'm trying to be.

[B]

When it gets worse, will you still be like, oh, well, he's like, half Republican, so it's okay.

[A]

Yeah. You need to really have a deep, personal conversation with yourself about what really matters to you. What are your values, and are you willing to compromise those for the sake of this relationship? I get it. Y' all been together for the past seven years. You had a brief little breakup, and then you got back together. You really feel like this is your man. You're a man. You're a man. That's fine and beautiful, but if this isn't if this is really gonna be a problem for you, it's best to know that before you all sign paperwork legally binding yourselves to each other.

[B]

Because it sounds like you guys have assets. You got money. Oh, yeah, no, we're gonna have. They don't have to break that up.

[A]

I mean, probably prenups are involved. Probably both of your families are like, oh, call the attorneys, though, right?

[B]

But I don't know.

[A]

But this is a mess. I think it.

[B]

And also, how does that work, being a Republican facing when you're queer?

[A]

Oh, girl, they have. Well, there's a whole group called the Log Cabin Republicans, and I think they're mostly white, but they've been around for a very long time. And it is a group of gay Republicans who are actively part of a party that would like to strip them of all their rights. And these people are these. These do sound like the fiscal conservatives, where they're like, socially, you know. Yeah, women can have rights over their

[B]

bodies, but when we're talking about money.

[A]

Yeah, when we're talking about money, I want all my money, and I don't want to share. So, yeah, don't I. Be real with yourself. Have a thoughtful conversation with you about how much this really matters, and then go from there. Because it could be that when you talk to your boyfriend about this and you say, hey, as far as I'm concerned, this relationship is moving towards marriage. But there's one thing that really concerns me, and it's some of your political views. And I just want us to talk about that before we start thinking about taking things to the next level. It could be that your boyfriend is like, damn, you know, I don't even really believe in these things. I'm just kind of going along with my dad. Yeah, I could shut up. Maybe I could shut up.

[B]

You want me to be quiet?

[A]

I could be quiet, not even shutting up. But, like, I can dial it back. I can chill out.

[B]

No, I'm gonna need him to shut up when my dad says something. I'm gonna need him to.

[A]

Right. Or when your daddy. Start with that Trump shit, we getting out of here. We going back to our Upper east side apartment, and we not dealing with this shit. Like, it may be that. So be real with yourself first, then be real with your man, and then make your decision from there. But if you not gonna leave, it ain't no if. There's no way in the world you gonna leave. It's no point bringing it up.

[B]

I mean, talking about, is it worth having a thoughtful conversation?

[A]

You talking about marriage Baby.

[B]

Yeah, both of y' all need to. Just when his dad talks about MAGA stuff and when you think about bringing this up. Yeah, everybody just need to.

[A]

Yeah, should. Or get off the pot. Work through it or ignore it. It's up to you. But I think you want to work through it. So be real with yourself, babe. Best of luck, Bradford. All right, who's next?

[B]

Darla. Okay. Okay. So. Dear Crystal, I am a 30 year old.

[A]

Oh, there's a dog in the room. Oh, okay. I'm gonna take. Give him to me.

[B]

All right, go, go, go.

[A]

Ooh, George. Georgie, how you did. No, I've been stopping him. He's.

[B]

Yes, he will jump off.

[A]

This is Georgie.

[B]

He's 50, 11 years old.

[A]

Guys, are you gonna sit down and be so nice?

[B]

No, he don't want me. He want everybody else in the room.

[A]

You're gonna sit down and be so nice. He's a traitor. Guys. Sorry.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Georgie decided to join us for Darla's letter. Yes. So what's going on with Darla?

[B]

So Darla says, dear Crystal, I am a 30 year old black woman who has recently decided to start taking dating seriously for the first time. I've been involved with men in the past. I didn't see the point in calling any of them my boyfriend or progressing the relationship, often due to a misalignment of values. I recently met a guy who is very sweet, thoughtful, and communicates his interest in me. In many ways, he has the qualities that I would be looking for. But for some reason, I find myself feeling closed off and doing things like waiting to respond to messages or ending our time together with just a quick hug. That's kind of awkward. It feels like there is something wrong with me. How do I know whether I'm sorry. I'd be laughing at these.

[A]

Oh, so do Jade. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

[B]

How do I know whether I need to date around or give this connection more time to let romantic feelings grow? I tend to numb myself when I'm overwhelmed, which makes decision making really hard. So I don't know how to move forward. I don't wanna lose out on a potentially great person, but I also don't want to waste this time if I never get there. Thanks, Darler. So she sounds avoidant, right? So that's avoidant, right?

[A]

Ooh wee. I just love how the Internet has taught everybody about attachment styles and we just. We read a couple paragraphs and be like, I'm clocking you. Am I right? Well, it's Very possible. But I don't really think. I don't think we need to put that label on it necessarily. Especially because having a healthy amount of I don't know about this in dating is good.

[B]

Oh, no, that's good. That's pattern recognition. Yeah. That's saying, this is some bullshit.

[A]

Get me out of here. Right. Darla's not like, this is my first time, you know, being with a man. It's just I didn't take these men seriously because look at men like, which. Valid. Valid. But so. But you finally met somebody that you really do wanna build something with, that you wanna nurture something with. And now you're like, ooh, okay, it's me. Yeah, I'm feeling closed off. I give you a little awkward hug goodbye instead of, like, giving you a little kiss on the cheek or saying you wanna come upstairs, have a cup of coffee.

[B]

Being open.

[A]

Yeah. You're not really nurturing or giving this connection a chance to be nurtured. Cause that sounds like there's something that you're afraid of when it comes to true vulnerability. Like, didn't Darla say, you know, I've never had. I didn't call any of these men my boyfriend?

[B]

Yeah, she said she didn't feel the need to.

[A]

Right. Because y' all just values weren't aligned or whatever else. But with this man, you don't have any of that to lean back on. So now you're being faced with what's really holding you back.

[B]

Mm, true. Cause she said that he seems like an all around good person, like a good guy. But now she's just like, hmm, I've never. Where do we go from here? Right? Like, what's the next step?

[A]

Yeah, I don't think you need to just date around Darla. It sounds like you've had plenty of experience with dating around. It sounds like what you need to

[B]

do is give this connection more time.

[A]

Yeah. Give your system a chance to really build something with somebody else. You can continue to date him. I'm not saying rush into like, oh, this is my fiance, or whatever. Keep dating. Keep getting to know him. But if the flags keep coming up green, that's a chance. That is not just a chance, but a sign to let the trust develop. What are you so scared of? That he might hurt you? It's a possibility. Or she even said, I don't wanna waste his time if I decide that, you know, or if I never get to this place.

[B]

Let me tell you something, baby. You're not wasting no man's time if he wanna be around you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The guys wanna be around the bad bitches first of all.

[A]

And, and men don't tend to sacrifice themselves in that way the way women do. Normally. If a man is around, it's cause he wants to be. Right? Right.

[B]

You're not wasting nobody time.

[A]

Yeah, you're not wasting nobody's time. And dating comes inherently with the risk that it won't work out. When you go into a dating situation, when you meet somebody new, you are automatically operating from the place of. This may not manifest into a relationship, but I'm enjoying my. Yes, I'm gonna enjoy. I'm gonna enjoy my time with you. I'm gonna get to know you. I'm gonna be as open and honest as I can and let the vulnerability grow as the trust grows, like we talked about earlier. But yeah, you do have to. I think it's important for you to give it a chance. It sounds like that's what you have an issue with, actually letting somebody who has proven themselves to be pretty decent so far, you know, give him a chance to get in there. Girl.

[B]

I didn't like when she said like, she tends to numb herself. So like what is she overwhelmed with? Is she overwhelmed? That is just like on all cylinders. He seems to be hitting like, you know, good things. So now she's overwhelmed with kindness, with love, with attention, and now she's just like, what do I do with it?

[A]

Yes, actually that's very much. That's very possible. Like when you're not used to being treated right, when you're not used to somebody whose values and beliefs align with yours and you finally get into that, that safe connection for the first time. You could be like, something's missing here. Where's the toxicity? Where's the, you know, there should be drama, there should be mess. Where is that? It's like your nervous system is conditioned and primed and very used to garbage. And so now that you're not in garbage, it can be like, well, what the fuck am I doing here? Yes, you're overwhelmed by the good of it and so you numb yourself out of it. Could be disassociating, it could be drugs, alcohol, all kinds of things that are numbing yourself. So I would. Again, spending some time, if you have a therapist, always going to recommend reaching out to a therapist, but journaling about how you're feeling can really help with this. And reminding yourself that you are a grown up who makes good decisions and in all situations you will take care of yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's your back Right. You don't wanna waste his time. Okay, well, if he.

[B]

And if he wasted what?

[A]

You're not gonna waste it. If he's not willing to see what might happen, then he's not gonna be dating. It's a risk of dating. It is. You might get your feelings hurt. You might spend months with somebody and it doesn't develop any further. That's just an inherent part of dating. So what else is really holding you back? Really be honest with yourself about that. And then just get it out on paper. Sit with the feelings. Which means, like, literally just being like, okay, right now, I'm deeply uncomfortable. Cause I really like this man. And I don't know what to do with that. And it's scary. Cause I ain't never felt this way about nobody before.

[B]

She might feel like she might be the one to mess this up.

[A]

Well. And see, you never know what might come up for you once you really give yourself the space to feel it. But it is important to give yourself the space to feel it. Yeah. So that you can figure out what it is that's going on there and then continue on with the connection. That feels so safe and healthy and exciting. It's exciting to feel this way about somebody.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It's rare. You're 30 and never had it before. So it's like, yeah, I'm leaning into the fun of it. I'm leaning into the what if? And the daydreams and all that. Because I know that, like, I can have this sort of whimsical, flighty side of me that's just like, oh, heart, eye emoji. But I'm also a realistic. I'm also responsible. And so if it comes down to some real shit going on, I'm not gonna just let you play me. Because I'm so, like, headed to the class.

[B]

She's had experience, and she knows a bullshit man when she sees one. So she can also be like, you know what? Heart, eyes and butterflies. Like, it's so beautiful when you both feel that way about each other. And you can fall in feeling safe with someone. Like, let yourself feel it. Let yourself feel that.

[A]

Let yourself feel it. And trust that if at any point you have a good reason to cut that off, that you will do it. You got all the experience with cutting it off. Go ahead and let yourself have some experience with feeling the joy of it too, baby.

[B]

Feel it. Feel it.

[A]

Good luck, Darla. All right, Laura. I can't believe we're already on our last letter.

[B]

We are.

[A]

Who's this one from?

[B]

This one. Why is the last one always is?

[A]

It is.

[B]

I was reading this and I was like, well, damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But okay, let's get into it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is from Jackie. So she says, dear Crystal, I have a friend who is an alcoholic and I have reached my breaking point. She has been to rehab and aa, but has unfortunately relapsed.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Recently she was put on leave from her job because the administration accused her of being drunk, which of course she denies.

[A]

Lord.

[B]

Recently she told me that she was feeling dehydrated and that she had been drinking water all day. So I asked her if her dehydration was because of alcohol. She became upset with me.

[A]

Oh, well.

[B]

Well, I would have too, babe.

[A]

I told you I was drinking water.

[B]

And you gonna say you're a drunk? Well.

[A]

Cause if you're a chronic drinker, then drinking water all day is. Don't do anything for that. So I can see both sides.

[B]

She became upset with me and said I asked her a country ass question and she was sick of me and her mother always accusing her of being drunk and not caring about her health. She then said that this was not the time or the place to ask her about alcohol and then told me to fuck off.

[A]

Oh, work.

[B]

Over the years, she has shown me a side of herself where she is mean, jealous, and vindictive to other people and paranoid. She accuses people of being jealous of her because she is pretty and. And skinny. I have decided that I have had enough. But why do I feel so guilty? She has lost all of her friends with the exception of me and one other person. And I feel as though I am kicking her while she is down. Why am I struggling to let this friendship go? And how do I draw a boundary with her? Thanks for your help, Jackie.

[A]

Oh, Jackie. Well, there's a lot of reasons why you might be struggling to let the friendship go or feeling guilty. My first is that you were raised to take care of other people, to always consider what they have going on and to sacrifice whatever is best for you or what you want in service of somebody else. That's just my first guess. It could be so many things, but this is.

[B]

It's like many different pathways. That is like, okay, she's a drunk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is a disease. And of course she's going to feel defensive when you ask her. Even if she. She was doing well for a while, she relapsed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So like you asking her that question, of course she's gonna get defensive. That's just par with the course.

[A]

She is gonna Be defensive. Um, and I mean, I can see her defensiveness. I can also see you being like, well, damn, are you so thirsty? Cause you drunk all the damn time. Like, unfortunately, alcohol does dehydrate you, girl.

[B]

Like, let's be serious.

[A]

Real question, baby. But you know, she's been to rehab, she's been to aa. This isn't your responsibility is the first thing I wanna say. Like, it's not up to you whether she stays sober. But she also sounds like she's got some other issues going on from the drinking that she hasn't really acknowledged or worked on at all.

[B]

Yeah, because the drinking might be a symptom of something other. Because of the mean, the vindictive, the paranoid.

[A]

Literally, that. Yes, that's exactly what I was gonna say. The drinking may be covering up those feelings, whatever it is she's trying to numb. As someone who has also struggled with drinking, I can fully understand that. I wasn't mean like this to. Well, I was actually pretty mean. But not to my friends. I was mean to, like, the general pop. The general pop? Yeah, general pop. Yeah. But not to the people who actually cared about me. And then being like, oh, well, people are just jealous of me because I'm pretty and skinny. Girl, you are a raging fucking alcoholic. Alcoholic.

[B]

That's why people hate you.

[A]

Are you sure they don't like you because you're an alcoholic? Because you cursed and vindictive and paranoid.

[B]

Threw your martini in her face, girl.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

That's why she's mad.

[A]

Yeah. So it sounds like she really does have some real self reflection that needs to happen here. She needs to really take a hard look at her life and what's going on beneath the drinking. Rehab and AA can absolutely help with that, as can substance abuse counselors. This is what they're trained to do to help you get to the reasons that are underneath your substance misuse. But until she gets to that place, she's gonna keep being like, okay with you for a little while and then lashing out and making you feel like shit. And you get to disengage. This is not your child. This is not your. You get to say, I've had enough of the way you treat me and I'm going to step back from this relationship. Do you think I'm stepping back because you're pretty and skinny?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or because you're drunk and mean? Like, let's just be for real.

[B]

No, no. She thinks it's because the pretty and skinny. Yes.

[A]

And that's why you got a problem Right now. So why you're struggling to let it go. Like I said, that could be so many different things. But. But drawing the boundary is a little bit more straightforward. It's just like that. Going through this up and down with you, with not even your alcohol use, because you could be stone cold sober treating me like this.

[B]

And I'm not gonna stand. Yeah, I'm not gonna stand for that.

[A]

Literally.

[B]

And that's. I think that instead of you cutting her off, like, you can decide that you've had enough. Have that conversation with her, let her know this will be the reason why

[A]

I cut you off. It's the way you treat me. Yes.

[B]

It's not because you're drunk. It's not because you're dehydrated. It's not because you're on administrative leave.

[A]

It's not cause you're so skinny. I was the biggest jealous of you.

[B]

It's not because of any of that. It's because of the way that you treat me. It's how you speak to me. It's that.

[A]

Yes, it's those things. And that is why. And you've lost all of your friends but one. So I'm kind of thinking it's not me. Girly pop.

[B]

Yeah, I'm kind of thinking that. And honestly, I feel like it's just everybody has reached that limit with her too. And they were just like, you know what? It's not even worth it. I'm good. I'm gone right now. If you were to maybe speak to her because she has lost all those other friends. No. That could ease your guilt a little bit. Because when it is time for you to actually cut her off, you did everything right. You did everything that you had to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah, I do. And I also think sometimes we feel guilty because we're not acting the way we were raised to act, as opposed to, you know, something that's actually good for us. Like, if you were trained or raised in an environment where you're supposed to constantly give yourself and give yourself and give yourself and forgive and forgive non stop. Yeah. That's probably why you've put up with this behavior for so long. Because you were trained or taught to do that, but when you decide not to, there can definitely be feelings of guilt that come up. Like, oh, no, I'm not doing what I'm to supposed. Supposed to do. Yeah. I was definitely taught to never ever abandon anybody. And now I'm. I'm. Now I'm abandoning this friend. You're not abandoning her. Abandonment is Something you do to people who are under your care. You can abandon children or pets or elderly parents or disabled people. You cannot abandon. You cannot abandon an alcoholic woman that is a grown to you, able bodied woman who can make her own fucking choices. She is not under your care. That's not abandonment.

[B]

And mind you, she's mad at you and her own mother for always accusing her of being drunk and not really taking care of herself. So that means her mother is also concerned.

[A]

Right? Right. And we are saying that because you have a documented history of abusing alcohol. Now, one thing about me, when my friends, family, other people were like, hey, I'm concerned about you for xyz, I'm not gonna turn around and be like, what you mean? I ain't never had no problem drinking, bitch.

[B]

You probably like, okay. It's coming from a trusted person.

[A]

I'm going through a lot right now. Let me have this rum. Or, you know, like, it's something. But I'm not gonna sit here and try to lie to you like, well, why are y' all acting like this? Like. Like, I don't know where it came from. Yeah, bitch, I've seen you hit rock fucking bottom. I. You know where it's coming from, and it's a place of concern. But if, you know, you an alcoholic who's been to rehab and aa, then you. The idea that people would say, like, it's actually documented. Yes.

[B]

It's not like you just started this and we're like, does she have a problem or.

[A]

No, we're not trying to figure out whether you have a problem. No.

[B]

You've been to rehab, ma'. Am.

[A]

Yes, we know you have a problem. It sounds like she's not ready to really confront what's going on, and that's very sad, but I would wish her the best in figuring that out.

[B]

Also, I would say that, like, yeah, you could let her go. And if she ever does, you know, would you open, like, would you hold that space for her? Maybe also, like, out of the guiltiness, I want her to feel like you can hold the space for her. That if she does get it together, it's not like, oh, and never speak to me again. Maybe be like, oh, I see you've done some work. Would you like to.

[A]

Well, in order to give somebody that chance, you have to have some sort of proximity to you. Because again, your issue isn't that she's drinking, it's that she mistreats you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I am unfortunately gonna have to take some space from you emotionally while you figure and with this friend in particular, it seems like the mistreatment of you and the alcoholism are just intertwined. So it may be that she really does need to get a handle of her drinking before she starts to. Better behaved. Yeah.

[B]

Better person.

[A]

But, yes, if y' all have spent some time apart and she comes back and says, hey, I'm back in a program. I've been doing xyz, I want to apologize to you because I really mistreated you. You didn't deserve all that. I actually was drinking when you asked me about being thirsty, and I was mad because how dare you clock me? You know, stuff like that. I. It's not that I'm completely closed off to giving you another chance, but I want to be clear that, like, for me, it's not whether you're drinking, it's whether you're being a nice friend. Are you being a good friend? Are you being supportive? Or are you going around being jealous and vindictive and talking about how everybody hates you because of how pretty you are? Are you being for real right now, or are you acting like it's everybody else's problem and you don't have a problem? It's everybody else being so mean and unfair to you? I think that's how I would handle it. But, yeah, Jackie, regardless of what she has going on, you don't deserve to be miss. And so many of us need to internalize that lesson because we will let people. And we know they got all kind of shit. You got these mental illnesses and this disease and this disorder and this and this. Yeah, they do. And you deserve better than that. So I hope you take that and hold it close to you and. And remember that as you decide to move forward. Guilty for what? She is not under your care or control.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

If it was up to you, she would be sober and happy. And happy and maybe gained a little weight. Maybe not, who knows? But a happier person who treats the people around her with kindness and respect.

[B]

It's like you feel guilty that she treats you like shit. Yeah. And you don't want to take it anymore.

[A]

Yeah. Nothing wrong with being fed up. The people who been left her alone are like, damn, Jackie finally got sick of that bitch.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, come on, girl. We've been waiting on you, girl. Come over here, girl. Come to death row. We got you. Ah, good luck, Jackie. I hope the conversation goes well. Lauren. Yes. Thank you so much. No problem. For joining me this week on the couch.

[B]

It's great to be here.

[A]

It is such a delight to have you. Please tell the people where they can find you.

[B]

You can find me at laurenlovesyw for for you. And my nonprofit is prnpo nyc. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you again, babe. That is going to wrap up this week's episode of Chrysalis Couch. You can find us online at Chrysalis Couch. The website is chrysalis couch.com and if you have a question for me, please send me an email. Advice chrysalis couch.com we'll see you next week.