Session 36 ft. India Shawn

Summary

Crissle’s Couch – Session 36 ft. India Shawn (July 21, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and insightful session, host Crissle welcomes acclaimed R&B artist and songwriter India Shawn to the couch. Together, they candidly unpack the complexities of romantic relationships, the journey of self-discovery, and the challenges and rewards of an artistic career. India opens up about the inspiration behind her new project, Subject to Change, lessons from therapy, professional validation, and her evolution as a musician. The conversation flows with warmth, vulnerability, relatable humor, and a touch of tough love—true to the show’s ethos.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dog Mom Life and Personal Catch-Up [03:00 – 04:00]

• The two bond over their experiences as devoted dog moms, sharing anecdotes about their poodles and pet routines.
• Memorable quote:

  "I'm really committed to being the best dog mom I can. Right?"
  — India Shawn [03:22]

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2. Navigating Relationships and “Subject to Change” [04:03 – 13:40]

• India and Crissle discuss romantic frustrations and the inspiration behind India’s music—specifically, the tension between hoping for love and bracing for disappointment.

• Both reflect on learning from dating experiences, including the universal struggle of “breaking up with someone you weren’t actually with.”

• Therapy’s role in helping India move from idealistic “lover girl” to a more “practical and logical” approach to relationships.

• Notable quote:

  "I'm going through a breakup with somebody I wasn't actually with... Those are the worst."
  — India Shawn [06:42]

• The emotional labor of short-term/flirtatious relationships and mourning what could have been.

• The realization that sometimes, you're grieving the hope and possibility, not the person.

• Notable insight:

  "They just represent this life that you imagine. It's not necessarily the person because you can trade them out with anybody."
  — India Shawn [08:40]

• India shares regrets about withholding her true feelings and discusses the ongoing work around emotional expression and “not playing small.”

• Memorable moment:

  “I need to be more expressive and honest about things as they're happening.”
  — India Shawn [10:04]

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3. Artistic Growth, Industry Lessons & Evolution [15:14 – 24:35]

• India reflects compassionately on her early career, extending grace to “little baby India” trying to make it in a toxic industry.
• Discussion on the music business’s pitfalls, abusive contracts, and the need to protect one’s energy.
• Key quote:

  “My heart goes out to her.” (on her younger self)
  — India Shawn [16:09]

• Crissle praises India’s perseverance and success in an industry notorious for burning out talent.

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4. Openness in Art and Life [21:10 – 22:33]

• India and Crissle explore how artistic vulnerability intersects with real-life boundaries.
• India discusses growing boundaries, revealing she now shares less in music and life until trust is built.
• Notable quote:

  "I used to tell too much of my business. I think now I'm just, like, having some boundaries."
  — India Shawn [21:29]

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5. Validation, Success, and Peer Recognition [24:35 – 27:30]

• A probing discussion on the evolving definition of success and the complicated role of external validation for independent artists.
• India values making a living from her art but craves more acknowledgment and camaraderie from peers, more so than public validation.
• Memorable quote:

  “I don't judge myself on that. But, yeah, I do wish I had some stronger ties from the industry.”
  — India Shawn [26:34]

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6. Creative Direction and Authenticity [28:34 – 31:41]

• India is embracing more alternative sounds and is “getting outside of [her] box a little bit,” both musically and personally.

• Both agree that shifting to please an existing audience is unsustainable, and growth requires authenticity—even at the risk of losing some old fans.

• Notable quote:

  “When I am creating authentically, the audience for that will be drawn to what I'm putting out."
  — Chrystal [29:16]

• They share candid moments about managers pushing for TikTok trends and cringe experiences trying to play the “game” of exposure.

• Notable moment:

  "Every time I let them talk me into do something like that, I look back at it and I'm like, this is so fucking stupid. This is not me."
  — Chrystal [32:00]

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7. Central Themes: Power, Growth, and Stepping Up [32:41 – 34:39]

• India steps “into [her] power,” taking the reins of her life and career, driven by new opportunities (notably a deal with producer D’Mile).
• She discusses the challenge and necessity of no longer viewing herself as a victim of circumstances, but as someone reclaiming agency.
• Key quote:

  "It just feels like it's time. It's time to stop playing small."
  — India Shawn [33:39]

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8. Navigating Friendship, Loss, and Support Systems [37:52 – 39:58]

• India and Crissle reflect on losing friends along the way to personal/professional growth, and the bittersweet nature of outgrowing people as success and circumstances change.
• Conversation on being the “one who broke out” in family structures and the sometimes-unspoken pressures of being a generational trailblazer.
• Notable moment:

  "I have broken some generational curses … and done some things that have never been done before in my family."
  — India Shawn [41:21]

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9. Touring, Performing, and Musical Joys [43:09 – 48:56]

• Tour dates announced: Brooklyn (Baby’s All Right), DC, Atlanta, Dallas, and LA, wrapping at The Blue Note.
• India and Chrystal reminisce about favorite past shows and discuss family support at live events.
• Discussing setlists, India highlights “Multiplicity” and “Kill Switch” as new favorites for performance, and “Superfine” as an all-timer.
• Notable quote:

  “Superfine is like, yeah, that's one of you might be trash, but I'm gonna be all right.”
  — Chrystal [18:27]

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10. Dating Standards and Relatability [50:06 – 53:37]

• A humorous and all-too-real talk about dating woes in major cities (“Can you just have your own apartment?”) and the struggle of finding partners who “meet you where you’re at.”

• Memorable moment:

  "I'm not really asking for perfection or whatever. Like, I'm just. Just meet me where I'm at."
  — India Shawn [51:25]

• Crissle urges recognizing red flags early and knowing what truly matters in compatibility.

• They exchange affirmations on the need for stricter boundaries and learning from past mistakes.

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11. “Subject to Change”: The Message [53:23 – 54:08]

• India hopes listeners give themselves permission to change and, above all, “have fun,” just as she felt “liberated” making the album.
• Notable quote:

  “I just want people to have fun … I was in a very liberated space when I made it.”
  — India Shawn [53:37]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "They just represent this life that you imagine. It's not necessarily the person because you can trade them out with anybody."
  — India Shawn [08:40]

• "My heart goes out to her." (on her younger self navigating the industry)
  — India Shawn [16:09]

• "It's time to stop playing small."
  — India Shawn [33:39]

• "When I am creating authentically, the audience for that will be drawn to what I'm putting out."
  — Chrystal [29:16]

• "I just want people to have fun … I was in a very liberated space when I made it."
  — India Shawn [53:37]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:00] – Dog mom banter & pet routines
• [04:03] – India’s reflections on modern dating
• [06:42] – Breakups with “non-relationships”
• [08:40] – The fantasy vs. the person
• [10:04] – Lessons on emotional expression
• [15:14] – Looking back at her early career
• [21:29] – Boundaries in art and life
• [24:35] – Defining success & validation struggles
• [28:34] – Evolving in musical direction
• [32:41] – Stepping into personal power
• [37:52] – Letting go of friends on the journey
• [41:21] – Carrying the “burden of greatness” in family
• [43:09] – Tour announcement & live show memories
• [48:56] – Performing old and new favorites
• [50:06] – The realities of dating standards today
• [53:37] – India’s wish for listeners: “have fun” with the music

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India Shawn Links and Tour Information

• Tour stops: Brooklyn, DC, Atlanta, Dallas, LA
• Tickets and details: indiashawn.com
• Social: @indiashawn on all platforms — “I be engaging, I be responding to DMs. Hit your girl up.” [55:20]

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This episode is a rewarding listen for anyone navigating self-growth, dating, friendships, or building a creative life. India’s honesty and Crissle's humor make for a conversation that is both healing and motivating — you’ll leave feeling validated, challenged, and maybe even a little bit healed.

Transcript

[India Shawn]

So good, so good, so good.

[Chrystal]

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[India Shawn]

I'm Madison Skinner. I'm Eva Jovic. I'm Decoria Moore.

[Chrystal]

Wanna train like a Red Bull athlete? Tell us your fitness goals this summer to enter the Red Bull athlete challenge. You'll get to try each of our workouts for a chance to win an ultimate Red Bull experience. Think you have what it takes? Hi and welcome to Chris Couch, the show where I answer your letters for advice and talk to the most interesting people in the world. This week on the show, I have an incredibly talented musician, a beautiful and exceptional vocalist who I've been listening to for years. Shout out to our mutual friend. Ahsante put me on a long time ago. I fell in love with her immediately. Her music is so gorgeous. It feels like somebody is finally putting all the feelings that I've had about dating and trying to be open to new relationships and seeing how connections go. She's just putting all of those complicated feelings into words, into this incredible music. And so whether she's been writing for herself or. Or writing for some of the biggest names in R and B, she has built a reputation for making honest, vulnerable music that lingers long after the song ends. Her newest project is called Subject to Change and it is out now. Please welcome India Sean to the couch.

[India Shawn]

You're so good at this.

[Chrystal]

Oh, girl, please. Well, it's easy.

[India Shawn]

Incredible.

[Chrystal]

It's so easy when you're talking to somebody like you and about someone like you. So first things first. Shout out Asante for introducing us. Oh, my God, a million years ago.

[India Shawn]

He's truly one of my friend. Soulmate.

[Chrystal]

Yes. And so I'm always grateful. Ahsante is known for, like, putting people on to incredible music and you are one of those ones for sure. Like been locked in Since God. That was. What was Origin? 2012.

[India Shawn]

That was 2012.

[Chrystal]

Oh, my God, girl. And look at you now, 20 years later now. So first things first. We have to talk about your baby. How is your sweet baby? Tell the people about your daughter. He's so perfect. He is Muji. Every time you post him on Instagram, I'm like, he kind of looks like

[India Shawn]

Lany, but, yeah, they look like cousins.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. Is he a cockapoo cavapoo?

[India Shawn]

I thought he was a mini goldendoodle, but then people were just like, no, he's just a mini poodle.

[Chrystal]

Oh, okay. So he's just a poodle. Gotcha.

[India Shawn]

Yours is not.

[Chrystal]

She's a poodle mix.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Okay, so she's a cavapoo. But yes. I'm like, oh, the dog mom life, it's real. It is.

[India Shawn]

You know, three walks a day. I'm really committed to being the best dog mom I can. Right?

[Chrystal]

Same. Oh, my goodness. No. When I. If I'm going out, like, at night, I will walk Lani before I leave. And then as soon as I get back, too. So she ends up getting three, four walks in a day.

[India Shawn]

You're doing better than me. I saw the little meatloaf birthday cake you made. I said, nah.

[Chrystal]

Her turkey meatloaf birthday cake with the mashed potato icing girl. And she loved it. She is not going back to her regular food now, so that's actually a problem. But anyway. So, India, what has been going on with these men?

[India Shawn]

Oh, my gosh. A whole lot of nothing. A whole lot of wasting time.

[Chrystal]

Okay, well, so when I think about, like, your music, the albums you've put out, and some of the recurring themes, a lot of it is, like, trying to make stuff work. It's a lot of, like, I'm staying open to love and the possibility and what you really nail for me and maybe because it's something that I'm going through right now, is like, no, it's nothing to get excited about, because is it ever really?

[India Shawn]

But anyway, in the beginning, right?

[Chrystal]

And so that's what it is. I'm coming out of this, like, oh. You know when you first meet somebody and it's like, it feels like the chemistry is there and the possibilities are endless, and you just kind of start daydreaming about what could be. And, you know, you are really good at putting those feelings.

[India Shawn]

I'm fantasizing. Yeah. I do.

[Chrystal]

I do not. It's always been harder for me to tap into, like, my romantic side, that lover girl side. So listening to your music it reminds me that, like. Oh, I actually do have, like, feelings

[India Shawn]

for these n. Why I've never heard you express that. I know.

[Chrystal]

No, it's a secret.

[India Shawn]

Wow. I'm like, I can't.

[Chrystal]

I ain't let y' all catch me slipping. But the truth is that, you know, sometimes I do get kind of heart eye emoji about these people. And you have such a talent for putting those initial feelings of, like, I really like you. What could this be? And, you know, just.

[India Shawn]

I mean, I'm really pulling from my imagination at this point because I really don't have any real life inspiration.

[Chrystal]

Not right now.

[India Shawn]

I'm actually retiring from my lover girl era. Yeah. It's like, I think I've done enough therapy.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

I'm just very practical and logical about life now.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. Okay.

[India Shawn]

And these redacted.

[Chrystal]

Right. Well, you know what's so interesting is sometimes we're on, like, two totally different ends of the spectrum, and some of us need to be pulled more towards that lover girl idealistic side, and some of us need to be pulled more towards reality. So it sounds like maybe we are just crossing we are separate direction. Right. So you feel like therapy kind of led you to this point of being like, let me be a little bit more realistic about what these. These people are actually out here offering.

[India Shawn]

Absolutely.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

You know, let me look at the facts. Like, are they offering anything really?

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Like, what do I really like about this person? What do they like about me? So, you know, this last. This most recent situation, I'm going through a breakup with somebody I wasn't actually with.

[Chrystal]

Oh, same.

[India Shawn]

Those are the wor. And then I'm pissed because I tried to break up with him first, and then he broke up with me the next day. But I'm like, nigga, I fuck with you yesterday. So how you going? Double back.

[Chrystal]

Wow.

[India Shawn]

So I'm even. I've just been really angry about that.

[Chrystal]

Right. He said, now that I'm thinking about it. I took the night to ponder what you said.

[India Shawn]

I know.

[Chrystal]

And he was like, reverse.

[India Shawn]

Best of luck on your tour. All the best in life.

[Chrystal]

And I'm just like, oh, so this is fresh.

[India Shawn]

No. Yeah. This is like, last week.

[Chrystal]

No. Oh, I'm sorry.

[India Shawn]

It's okay.

[Chrystal]

So is. So when you think about subject to change, and you're like, literally, I be now subject to change in a matter of days.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. Those highs to lows.

[Chrystal]

Yeah, yeah. Breaking up with somebody you're not actually with is also. It's one of those situations. I don't want to put these words in your mouth. But for me it's like, this is so stupid. I can't believe I'm going through this. Like, this is the dumbest.

[India Shawn]

Why am I having feelings, any feelings around this? You know, I've really been. I've been trying to process like, but like how long were you involved?

[Chrystal]

A few months.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, it's that few month mark though, because it feels like enough of a time investment to where it's like it kind of started to mean something.

[Chrystal]

Right. But yeah, but it's the sort of thing where I look back and I'm like, wow, I really listened to the words you said and believed those and just, you know, I guess you kind of have to have that hopefulness. You can't go into every romantic connection like, well, this finna end. Let me start the countdown for, you know, when this is gonna be over. But it does feel like, am I really having like a period of mourning or grieving right now over you? It can't be you.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. And then that's again going back to the therapy. That's when you realize that they just represent this life that you imagine. It's not necessarily the person because you can trade them out with anybody. You really can. Yeah. And so it's like, yeah, that consistent conversation over three months or whatever. But it's not really the person.

[Chrystal]

Right. It's not. It usually is not actually them. Like you said, they're representing something else or it is the death of like the hope that you thought of, the like the possibility of what this could have been. And that excitement when you first met them and this like, you know, who knows where this could go. I'm open to it and I'm happy and when it falls apart, it's just like, damn, okay, another one. I'm gonna have to sit over here to myself for a little bit and sift through all of this mess to figure out what the lessons are here for me.

[India Shawn]

I did learn so much about myself and it.

[Chrystal]

Did you really? After just a few months? Well, I mean, no. Cause I did too. And so that's what I'm saying. Like it really does not have to be these long term relationships where you learn these life lessons. Sometimes it's like, oh, this connection made me realize that I'm not too old to do something stupid. Like I'm not too old to fall for things.

[India Shawn]

You know, I'm making terrible decisions at this big grown age. Still believing. Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. So anything you want to share about what you maybe have learned from this

[India Shawn]

last One with the way that it ended, because I'm not gonna lie, I bit my tongue so much throughout. So that's one thing I learned. I need to be more expressive and honest about things as they're happening.

[Chrystal]

Yes.

[India Shawn]

Because I built up a lot of. I guess not really resentment, but I was just holding a lot in. And so when it came out like Aries. Yeah. It came out in a really.

[Chrystal]

Oh, you're in Aries. Yeah. Okay.

[India Shawn]

And it came out in a way that I regret.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Was it. Was there anger behind it?

[India Shawn]

There was anger. It was spicy, and it was not kind.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

But then. So that brings me to this whole thing. I think that a lot of my identity is wrapped up in being good and kind and acceptable. And although my delivery could have been different, the things that I said were true.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

So I want to be okay with what I said, but it's like, that's. It's eating me up inside that I

[Chrystal]

never did that way.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. I was like, I didn't have to do that. Like, I didn't even have to say anything. And I want to get to that point in my emotional maturity where I can just, like, let it be, you know?

[Chrystal]

Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head when you're like, I need to get better about expressing things that are an issue or whatever as they come up. Because sometimes I don't know that this is your story, but it has been the case for me before that I'm like, maybe I'm tripping. Like, maybe I'm feeling this way, and it's not that big of a deal. Like, I like this n. Let me chill, you know, and let me stop looking for an ick. Exactly. Because I'm always looking for a. I got too much Virgo in my chart. Everything turns me off.

[India Shawn]

I mean, I'm a Virgo rising, so I got some Virgo in me, too.

[Chrystal]

So for me, historically, when I have done that, it's been, like, I look back at it, and I'm, like, actually trying to make it work anyway. Was a mistake. I was uncomfortable, and I should have honored the fact that I didn't like that. Yeah.

[India Shawn]

And that's the text messages that I. But, yeah, that's what I said. I said I knew I was forcing it with you.

[Chrystal]

Yes. Oh, wait, wait. So how did he swindle you out of the breakup just to turn around and, like. Well, he convinced you to give him another day.

[India Shawn]

No. So it just all hit the fan. I mean, it's a really crazy Stupid story of him facetiming bitches. Pardon? Can I say that?

[Chrystal]

You can cuss.

[India Shawn]

Okay. Wow. It was dumb. It was very unnecessary. But he insisted on doing this whole thing. And so the next day, I was like, listen, I know yesterday was rough, but, like, it doesn't undo all the good and all that, you know, I was still kind of, like, leaving it open just to be cool. Cause I want to just be on good terms with people, you know?

[Chrystal]

Right.

[India Shawn]

And he shut it down. I'm like, how you gonna shut it down after. Yeah. I didn't even do nothing, you know? Yeah.

[Chrystal]

That would frustrate the hell out of me. It really would.

[India Shawn]

Cause fairness is a thing for me.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Like, it just felt unfair for him to just. Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Accepting. Unfair. The unfair. The inherent unfairness in life has been one of my biggest struggles. It's just like. But it shouldn't be that way.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

But that isn't fair. And it's like, yes, well, nobody told you it would be. And it's like, okay. But that's not fair either. So I know it's the sort of thing where you could really get stuck in, like.

[India Shawn]

And then you see from the outside looking at it, like, you see the tantrum in that. Like, you see yourself acting like a child. Cause it's like.

[Chrystal]

That is very childish of me, but it's how I feel. Like, if I could stomp my feet and scream right now about how unfair it is. Like, how dare you try to do this to me when I just. Anyway, I've told you a million times, if a girl as beautiful as India is having issues out here with these men, I do not know what the rest of y' all are gonna do. Like, it's rough. It's rough. But I love that you talk about this subject. You don't just talk about, you know, the hard eye stage and the catching feelings. You also talk about the. Hmm, interesting. So look at how you decide to act as time progresses and, you know, the way things fall apart as well. And the times where you're maybe not focusing on dating, but, like, really trying to channel your energy into yourself. What you need, like, honoring you. I think those are just sort of phases we all move in and out of. Like, right now, I cannot trust none of you hoes.

[India Shawn]

But I need to go within.

[Chrystal]

Right. But give me another three, four months, and maybe I'll be, you know, back out there, ready to try it again. So you've written all that sort of music for yourself. You've also written for other people. You're living through all these different versions of yourself, and you've been in therapy. So when you look back at it, which. Which era of India do you say? You know, that girl really deserves a lot of patience, a lot of grace, a lot of understanding because she was doing the best she could with what she had.

[India Shawn]

Like, wow.

[Chrystal]

Yeah, that was me really just doing the best with. With these insane situations. Do you look back at your life in that way?

[India Shawn]

Yeah, for sure. And, I mean, going back to the unfairness, just, like, the hand that I was dealt, you know, and extending grace for just not knowing and not having guidance or protection. And I think, like, my early career, honestly, early 20s, just, like, going back out to LA and writing and, like, working with a very abusive producer and being in a crazy contract and just trying to show up and trying to, like, be a person who loves music and, like, wants to work hard and prove myself, and it just was not the right environment. Right. So definitely little baby India. Yeah. My heart goes out to her.

[Chrystal]

You learn so much the longer you stay in this industry. And one thing about the music industry in particular, I've heard, like, mostly awful things. Like, for the most part, people are like, music is terrible. The music industry, the quote unquote industry, like, it's just awful. And they will chew you up, spit you out, use you, abuse you, all this and expect you to be grateful for it at the end of the day. So it's like what you see with India and, like, multiple albums and projects and tours and just all over the place and all that. That is the sort of success that comes through being so diligent with your work. Because it's like you said, you have really. You've put in that effort and you've been. You've come up against so many different situations where it would make sense to be like, you know what? Y' all can have all of this. Actually, like, I have to go home and.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Protect my kids.

[India Shawn]

Literally. I, like, literally left LA at that time and went back to Atlanta where my mom was and was like, I'm just gonna be back on the marta.

[Chrystal]

Yep.

[India Shawn]

I'm gonna go back to Georgia State and I'm just gonna figure it out. And I did. I mean, and honestly, that's when I made Origen, you know, from that situation. So, yeah, you.

[Chrystal]

I love that you are like, you know what? Actually, when I look back at that early part of my career, that girl, she, you know, she had a dream and bright eyes and.

[India Shawn]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. So is there anything that you Learned about yourself through the process of writing songs and making music. Cause, again, you've been at it for quite a while now, so.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, I learned that on top of this church. No, I've learned so much. You know, I didn't. Because I was just so in the music and the process of making it. I didn't realize how much I was revealing about myself and, like, who I was through these songs, you know, whether it be a song like, I don't know. I don't even wanna go. I don't wanna go into the vault.

[Chrystal]

Okay. Okay.

[India Shawn]

I don't wanna go into the vault. Y' all know the songs, but I think Super Fine.

[Chrystal]

Are we talking about super fine?

[India Shawn]

Superfine is empowering. We like.

[Chrystal]

It is.

[India Shawn]

Superfine is like, yeah, that's one of

[Chrystal]

you might be trash, but I'm gonna be all right.

[India Shawn]

I'm gonna be okay. No, but the ones where it's like, by any means necessary, we gonna be together. And, you know, like, those types of things. I'm like, oh, I was that person, and I was making that very publicly known, you know? So, yeah, just witnessing my growth through these.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. Have you found that in dating, people will maybe listen to your music to get an idea of, like, what you like or how you are and try to fit that mold of what they think you'll be attracted to or you'll go for?

[India Shawn]

I've only dated, like, one or two fans. Maybe just one where it was like, he.

[Chrystal]

I love that for you. Cause I can't get away from my fans. And now it is. It has to be, like, a rule in my life that I cannot entertain no more fans because they keep fucking with me, India. Like, so I can't do it. But anyway.

[India Shawn]

But then isn't it, like, on the opposite side when they have no interest and they haven't done the research, they don't know that you're you. You know, like, we gotta find a millionaire.

[Chrystal]

I like that. I like. I dated. I dated somebody a few years ago who said that they didn't know who I was. And so that introduction of, like, you know, we go out and people are like, can you take. And this is this. And, you know, showing them some of the stuff I've done. Drunk history and stuff like that. And they're just like, wow, you. This, this, this. And I'm like, you didn't know. Like, I just kind of love that you didn't know none of that about me. You know, somebody sat down and asked for my number and then was like, what do you do. And I'm like, you don't know what I do. I was a little. I was a little gagged, so. But you said you only dated one or two fans. Yeah.

[India Shawn]

And it got like. When they start interviewing me about, like, why'd you write this song?

[Chrystal]

Oh, God. That kind of gets a little weird, doesn't it? Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. But I do like when they appreciate the music, though, you know, like, they know this is good and, like, it's popped up and I would play it again. Like, I like when they like the music, but when it's like.

[Chrystal]

Yeah, when they're interviewing you. Yeah.

[India Shawn]

I don't like that.

[Chrystal]

I've had to learn my lesson. Like, the ones who think they know too much about me or they have been, you know, just such a huge fan for so many years. It's like, you know too much. Right. You know too much about me and I don't know anything about you. So I think I have to just leave the fans alone for a while.

[India Shawn]

But

[Chrystal]

anyway, this is supposed to be your interview. I'm over here triggering. We had to catch up.

[India Shawn]

Tell me more.

[Chrystal]

No, I'm not doing nothing but wasting my time believing these lies, et cetera. Anyway, do you think that being so emotionally open in your art and the way you've evolved in how you express those emotions, has it helped you to be more open in your real life with dating or friends or family?

[India Shawn]

You know, I am an open book for the most part. Like, I'm extremely. I used to tell too much of my business. I think now I'm just, like, having some boundaries. Yeah. You know, and. Yeah, not so much exposing myself.

[Chrystal]

Right. So you. You would say you're open, but just not forthcoming with everything right off the bat.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, I think. Yeah. Gotta get some trust going on in the mix before I start giving you my history and. Yeah, all that stuff.

[Chrystal]

Right. It don't need to be. We just sat down 10 minutes ago and I'm like. Well, actually, when I was in the fifth grade, such and such. It's like, okay, girl.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. So I think even in the music, I'm getting a. Like, I think it's more. I was kind of playing, but it is more imaginative and it is more kind of taking from friends stories sometimes. Oh, yeah. It's like, not always directly my.

[Chrystal]

About your life. Exactly. Right. Okay. Is that reflected in the newer project?

[India Shawn]

Yeah, like a song like Marmalade or Rain On Me, which is about getting tricked on. Ain't nobody tricking on me, but, you know, I'm trying To manage.

[Chrystal]

So, yeah, I was in the strip club, and I was like, you know, what? Dream date?

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

Okay, So I love that. So do you. When we think about, like, how long you've been in the industry and all the success that you have managed to come across for yourself and how hard you've been working for a lot of artists and people who work independently, creatives, the issue of validation is a tricky one because it can be like. And it's something that, for a lot of us, we probably really learn in therapy, the difference between, like, how do I feel about what I'm putting out versus how is it received by the industry, how is it received by the fans, and, like, how important am I going to hold commercial success to me? So I think about that sort of thing a lot. Like, for me, with having the Reid, which is 13, 14 years old now, and it just being like, you know, it is this singular thing that is just so weird and, you know, lightning in a bottle or whatever, and then having other projects along the way over the years, insecurity with Fran and, you know, we had a talk show briefly, and now doing this. This solo show, it's like, all of a sudden I'm being confronted with the idea of, like, what does it mean to be successful in this stage of my life? And, like, how much do I need the people to say, ooh, I really like this? Or this really resonated with me for it to matter. Like, will I sit here and put out this show even if people don't give me that sort of feedback? So I'm wondering if your relationship to validation has changed at all.

[India Shawn]

Something I'm working through.

[Chrystal]

Okay. Okay.

[India Shawn]

I mean, I think my definition of success, though, is it's not so wrapped up in the validation because, like, I look around, like, the fact that I can wake up and do whatever I want to do.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Like, that is success to me. The fact that I've been paying my bills simply from singing. Singing since 2018, 2019, is incredible to me, you know, because my friends aren't living that type of life, you know, So, I mean, I'm grateful for that, but I do. I think more than anything, one of my issues right now is wanting to be acknowledged by my peers. I don't feel like I have that support amongst my peers. And I see, like, the camaraderie. I see the groups and the circles and the, you know, Instagram connections, and I'm just like. I feel like sometimes where I'm at doesn't feel real to me because I Don't feel seen by them.

[Chrystal]

I see.

[India Shawn]

And so that's something I'm dealing with right now.

[Chrystal]

Interesting.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

I don't know that I would have assumed that from you, because when I think about, like, oh, India's done this and that and Saint Heron and this, and so it's like, of course, you know, the people love her. Her beautiful voice and the pen and all this, so. But I guess it's not just. Maybe it sounds like you're not just talking about professionally or commercially, but, like, you know, just the girls kicking it or that sort of thing.

[India Shawn]

It's really that. Cause, I mean, I don't put too much on the general public. I don't expect them to know what's good or quality, you know, So I. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Chrystal]

And you said y' all don't have taste.

[India Shawn]

Some of y' all do. But when we look at the Mass Collective, when we think about politics and we think about food and we think about what. What's popular, like, it's not always what's quality.

[Chrystal]

Exactly.

[India Shawn]

So I don't judge myself on that. But, yeah, I do wish I had some. Some stronger ties from the industry.

[Chrystal]

I see. Interesting, interesting. So do you. Has that shifted from when you were first starting out? Like, did you have a different idea of what it would mean to be successful? Cause I agree. Once I was making money, more money podcasting than I was at my 9 to 5, I was like, this is a dream life. This is a dream existence. How did I become this fortunate? So I don't. I hope that I haven't continued to raise the bar for myself to the point where it'll be feeling like I'm successful is unattainable. I hope I don't keep doing that. But I do also wanna continue to evolve. So it's like, where's the line there?

[India Shawn]

What's next for you, man?

[Chrystal]

What I'm trying to. You know, this. When I. When I went to grad school and I was like, what am I gonna

[India Shawn]

do with this degree? You're doing all kind of shit.

[Chrystal]

I mean, so this. I really did feel like I wanna take mental health topics and, you know, these very big words that I learned in grad school and distill it out to the general public to not only share what I've learned, but to get people to see that, like, this is maybe something that you haven't considered or haven't considered in this way. So I feel like that definition, that bar of success and, like, what it means for me to feel validated in what I do has really shifted over the past few years. So it's interesting to hear that from you too, because the work is shifting because. Yeah, exactly. And it sounds like for you, the direction you want to take your music in is shifting. Not, like, so much in a sound kind of way, but in, like, really. Where do you see that going?

[India Shawn]

I mean, I think that this project leans a little bit more alternative, and that album that I. It's done, y'.

[Chrystal]

All.

[India Shawn]

But is it okay? It's done. It's even more leaning in that space. So, yeah, sonically, I'm just getting outside of my box a little bit.

[Chrystal]

Okay. So not just with the lyrics and. Or maybe the stories you want to

[India Shawn]

tell with the overall soundscape, but with the.

[Chrystal]

You want to go further in a more alternative or different sort of direction than what you've typically done. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean, and I love that as artists, as musicians, you know, as self employed creative people, you do, you know, your evolution is part of the work. And what's been so important for me to remember is that, like, when I am creating authentically, the audience for that will be drawn to what I'm putting out. So I can't be trying to please the people, you know, who have been around since 2013. Love y' all down. But I can't be putting out what I think y' all want to hear. You know, I have grown up, I have changed a lot. And so the way I talk, the things I talk about, all of that has to evolve too. And if that means some of y' all fall off and a new audience emerges, then, you know, so be it.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

Right?

[India Shawn]

Yeah. That's what subject to change meant for me. It's like this prelude to the next thing. And I think it's just like, speaking for all creatives and artists, we don't really want to be held to this one thing that we started off doing. You know, we want to be able to create freely. And I know with that comes some losses, but also, like you said, a new audience or whoever is attracted to what you're doing in that era.

[Chrystal]

Right. Cause once I start doing what I think y' all want me to do, as opposed to what feels genuine to me, that's not sustainable. Like, I didn't. We sort of stumbled into a podcasting career. I did not, you know, aim to have this, but that's something that I have definitely learned along the way of, like, is like, you know, it was such a huge hit right out of the box because we were being our authentic selves. So trying to switch that up now is kind of like, you know, for what. But I think a lot of people get caught up in what do the people want, what's gonna be, you know, popular on TikTok or whatever else? Like, what's gonna resonate the most with the audience. It's like, I just. I'm gonna do my best with my little things, and I hope y' all like it, and I hope it reaches the people that it's meant to reach. Oh, please. We love it. Please. And we love you, so. But, yeah, I think that authenticity is something that can be lost if you're not mindful about holding onto it. Cause it's easy when you get the managers and the social media people, and everybody's like, ah, do this and this

[India Shawn]

and this and this.

[Chrystal]

It's like, somebody has to be focused on the art first and foremost.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, somebody.

[Chrystal]

The rest of it is a game and a business and an industry and all that. So you sort like, I'm trying to play these games, the stuff that these. These white people want me to do. I'm like, okay, let's be on video. Let's do a TikTok or whatever.

[India Shawn]

Like, I haven't seen that. I've been missing that on my algorithm,

[Chrystal]

because I will not post those. Because every time I let them talk me into do something like that, I look back at it and I'm like, this is so fucking stupid. This is not me.

[India Shawn]

That's cringe. I have some cringe. TikToks up. I'm not gonna lie.

[Chrystal]

I got some cringe stuff. Oh, man. Okay. So have you learned any. Were there any, like, particular lessons or things that emerged for you as, like, a big theme while you were working on your album and this EP that are out now preparing for a tour, was there anything that just sort of came up over and over again? Like, this needs to be a central part of the message I'm trying to communicate.

[India Shawn]

Wow. I think just, like, stepping into my power.

[Chrystal]

Ooh.

[India Shawn]

You know, I mean, especially preparing for this tour. Oh, my gosh. Like, being the person that I have had this vision of, this artist, you know, not just like, I want to be this person, but becoming that person, deciding to do the things that it takes to become that person. And so I think in the messaging of the album, you hear some of that just like, grown up India.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

A little bit more grown up.

[Chrystal]

So asserting your power. I like that. Is that something that therapy helped you with or you just feel like, I'M maturing, I'm getting older, and I'm at this place now where I just don't tolerate the things I tolerated when I was younger.

[India Shawn]

Little life age therapy.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. I think it's just. It just. It just feels like it's time. It's time to stop playing small.

[Chrystal]

Ooh.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

And really, time to take the reins of my life. And I think for valid reasons, I have felt like a victim of my life circumstances.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

And I think it's easy to be like, woe is me. And I didn't have this or I didn't have. You know, but it's like at some point or another, you gotta. Yeah.

[Chrystal]

It's unfair. And then, you know, going back to that issue of fairness. But at a certain point, you do have to accept the cards you were dealt and try to make the best out of them. And again, that is unfortunate because some people get it much worse than others. But as adults, we do all kind of have to be like, okay, well, I have to clean up this mess, so to speak, or I have to try to sift through this and make the best out of it. So that's so interesting. Would you say, like, this sort of feeling of taking your power back or reclaiming it and not wanting to play small, does that play a part in you, like, experimenting with a different sound and talking about.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, most definitely. And also, I feel like I need to mention the fact that I just recently did a deal with my producer, D Mile.

[Chrystal]

Oh, nice.

[India Shawn]

And. And he's, like, the greatest producer in the world, and he could have signed anybody, you know? And so for me, I've been around forever, but for him to, like, see something in me and want to invest his opportunity, his resources, his time to work with me, like, I have to maximize the situation. I have to be the brave, courageous version of myself, you know? So I feel like that has definitely pushed me into this position as well. And creatively, you have to go for it. Gotta give it all. I can't. This is. I was like, this might be my last shot, so let me just give it all.

[Chrystal]

That's interesting, India, the way you talk about your music. Not even your music. I think it's sort of like the way you talk about your career. You're always like, I'm gonna give it one more shot. I'm gonna give it. But you like. But, girl, you have. I don't know, maybe it's just the outside looking in. I'm like, but you're so talented and your music is so Great. And your albums are so good. And, like, I love seeing you perform live. So I guess I just.

[India Shawn]

Thank you. Maybe I'm ready to see it translate, you know? Like, I'm proud of what I've done, and I'm ready to do the festivals and I'm ready to have the radio hit. And I'm ready, you know, I'm just ready for it to translate. And I've planted the seeds, so I know it's coming and that's why I'm thugging it out, you know?

[Chrystal]

But, yeah, so you want to see it on, like a. Going to newer levels, bigger levels. You want to do sold out arenas? You want to sell out MetLife? Yeah, let's do it.

[India Shawn]

Let's do it.

[Chrystal]

Okay. I love that. I love that. I love talking to people whose aspirations are different than mine, because I feel like very frequently I'm like, I'm famous enough. This is enough. Baby mama taps out right here, here. But you're like, no, actually, I'm gonna paparazzi.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. Well, I just. Yeah, I'm ready to go to the next level.

[Chrystal]

Okay. Yeah. All right. And that's fair. So it sounds like over the course of your career and even now, you have been, you know, doing your thing, being true to yourself, but also maybe always reinventing certain aspects and maybe staying open to different possibilities, that sort of thing, in order to continue to progress in your career. Do you think there's been any. Can you speak to maybe the challenges of that? Some of the things that have been rewarding, but maybe also some of the things that you've had to grieve in that process. Have you had to leave people behind? Because that was hard for me.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, that's definitely a big deal.

[Chrystal]

Like, all your friends can't come with you.

[India Shawn]

Doesn't that suck?

[Chrystal]

It really does. It's like, but why not? And I'm so grateful for the ones who have. Like, I have friends that I've had since high school and college, and I'm like, I can't believe people who have known me since the 1900s are still my friends.

[India Shawn]

That's so funny.

[Chrystal]

Like, I thank God for that. But it's so cool.

[India Shawn]

I'm grateful to have a lot of those. But it's crazy because, like, being in the music industry, you have a lot of music friends and singer friends, and y' all all have this aspiration, right? And then it's like, you can't wait to get to a certain point to celebrate with them, but then you turn. They ain't Even there with you no more. It's like, girl, I was trying to get this feature and I got it, and I was trying to put this album out and I was trying to do this show, and now I'm here and you're nowhere to be found. Like, you're just. It's like. It's like a repellent type of energy. When you reach a level of success that you're from. I don't know what it is. I don't even wanna make the assumptions, but I have lost some good friends along the way.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. So that's part of, like, the harder. Well, for. I mean, it sounds like you agree. It's just like, oof. This. I thought I did not know I was gonna have to mourn, you know, losing some of you as we got here. But along the way, I've also had all these opportunities. I've been able to meet some of my idols and people that, you know, I've looked up to. For so long, I've had all these different opportunities that, like, me growing up in Oklahoma, I really could have never pictured for myself, you know, the details of this life. Sometimes you really have to zoom out and be like, my everyday life is something I could not have even fathomed for myself. So. Yeah. Do you have.

[India Shawn]

Do you. Do you ever feel like you are carrying. I want to word this the right way. I don't want to if anybody. But in your family structure and setting, do you feel like the burden of greatness?

[Chrystal]

I love the way you put that. And. No. One of the things that I have been most thankful for is that, like, everybody in my family is pretty independent. And although I'm the star.

[India Shawn]

Just kidding.

[Chrystal]

Just.

[India Shawn]

You're not getting.

[Chrystal]

You know, nobody has really. Nobody needs me. Nobody is dependent on me. It's me and my dog up here in New York, and they're still in Texas and Oklahoma living their normal lives that have nothing to do with the

[India Shawn]

ridiculous, but not even financially, but just being the person that. That broke out of the system and just chose to do something different. And you're successful at that.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. I don't think anybody else aspired to it.

[India Shawn]

Okay.

[Chrystal]

I think they're all living the lives that they wanted to live. They wanted to go to school, get a degree, get married, buy a house, have kids, you know, And I think they're all. I don't think any of them are like, I wish I could have did what you did. They were all looking at me like, you wanna go up north for what you. It was Very much like, why you wanna live like them people?

[India Shawn]

So, see, nobody in my family has expressed this directly to me, but I do feel like I have broken some generational curses. Oh, yeah.

[Chrystal]

Oh, well, we could talk about that. Yeah.

[India Shawn]

And done some things that have never been done before in my family, you know?

[Chrystal]

Yes, for sure.

[India Shawn]

So even if they're not imposing a pressure or anything, I feel like I have to carry that thing, you know, like, hear the torch, like, and see it through.

[Chrystal]

I see.

[India Shawn]

You know.

[Chrystal]

Hmm. Well, yeah, I can. I understand what you're saying. And I think, you know, that if you feel it, then you feel it for a reason, you know, so even if it does go unsaid, there probably is a. You know, when I go home and see my cousins, they be like, okay, I see you. Like you. The picture with Beyonce. Now, that made it to the group chat, child. My aunties was like, beyonce. So, you know, every now and then, there's a moment like that where they like, damn, my little cousin really up there doing something. But, you know, I think otherwise, they. Yeah, I. I understand what you're saying. I don't know that I share that same experience, though. Like, I think everybody's like, girl, you wanted to go up north and. And be weird and everybody. I've always been the weird window in my family. I've always been the. Maybe not black sheep, but I've just always been the oddball. And so I think we all saw this for me. I think we all saw me.

[India Shawn]

And that probably, you know, pushed you into it.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

The vision and the hope for it.

[Chrystal]

Yes, I agree.

[India Shawn]

So.

[Chrystal]

All right. I don't want to take up too much more of your time trying to figure out, like, how do I want to land the plane. Let's talk a little bit about subject to change in this tour. Cause by the time this comes out, the tour will have started. You're kicking things off here in New York, right?

[India Shawn]

Yes. And before I talk about this tour, I just have to let the people know.

[Chrystal]

Mm.

[India Shawn]

One of my top two favorite shows ever was here in New York when

[Chrystal]

you and Ahsante came. Oh, yes. Oh, like gym venue. Yeah, I remember that.

[India Shawn]

And the way you hollered for me.

[Chrystal]

I was screaming, baby.

[India Shawn]

I mean, in the silent moments.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, no, y'. All. Y' all don't know this song. I'm finna sing.

[India Shawn]

I have never felt so supportive in my life.

[Chrystal]

Oh, I love that. I do remember that show.

[India Shawn]

Oh, my gosh, that was such incredible night.

[Chrystal]

Oh, stage.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. It Was so fun. It was so fun. So, yeah, I'm excited to do Baby's All Right this weekend. I've been wanting to do that venue. It's cute and. And legendary and. Yeah, it's in Brooklyn or whatever. Yeah, I like Brooklyn.

[Chrystal]

Brooklyn's the best.

[India Shawn]

Yes.

[Chrystal]

So where are you headed after you leave New York?

[India Shawn]

Dc.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

Might meet some redacteds.

[Chrystal]

Well, you know, the thing about DC men is they have. They've got good jobs for the most part.

[India Shawn]

Okay.

[Chrystal]

That's also married.

[India Shawn]

They're all. Every last one.

[Chrystal]

All the men are married. But other than that.

[India Shawn]

Well, there's that. Okay, there's that. And then ATL got to second home.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. Really excited about that. My mom will be at that show.

[Chrystal]

Oh, wow. What is it like to have that sort of support from family?

[India Shawn]

Oh, it's so sweet. It's so sweet to, like, my mom has. I mean, she. She's seen me go from church. Cause she was a praise and worship leader at my church. So to see me going behind, singing behind her to now, like, traveling and really doing this, she always tells me how proud she is.

[Chrystal]

So that's really nice. Maybe. Cause my content has been kind of ratchet, you know, and my family is all still deep in the church. Like, everybody is so churchy, so they used to come to live shows years and years ago. My cousins, the younger ones would. My aunties, though, never. I don't think anybody over the age of 45 in my family could tell you what my show is called. I legit don't, because we've all told them, this is not for y'. All. Respectfully, this content is not for you. Yes. So I love that, you know, you make beautiful music so your mom can be proud of you.

[India Shawn]

I'm always curious about the artists who are just like. But I have nigga shaking that like. Like, daddy's at this show. But it's amazing, though, that they can have that. I mean, I would just. I don't know. I would feel so weird. But that's cool when you have that type of family dynamic where you can still be supported.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. We're like, damn. The people I love are proud of me for what I do for a living. That's nice.

[India Shawn]

I know. So, yeah. And then. So that's ATL and then Dallas.

[Chrystal]

Okay.

[India Shawn]

Which I don't know what to expect. I mean, I'm hearing it's an R and B city, but I don't really know what to expect.

[Chrystal]

Do you know what part of Dallas you're Performing in. Okay.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. That makes all the difference.

[Chrystal]

It's been so long that I'm like, you give me deep Ellum, but I don't know that Deep Ellum is what it used to be, you know, 20 years ago when I was going there to see, you know, like, Alicia Keys and what's her. Corrine Bailey Ray. Right. So I'm like, I could see you.

[India Shawn]

It's a new venue. I know. I think it's called AM fm.

[Chrystal]

Gotcha.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. And then back home to do the Blue Note, which I am.

[Chrystal]

Nice.

[India Shawn]

Very nervous about.

[Chrystal]

Wow, that's a good look.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Congratulations. You're nervous about the.

[India Shawn]

I mean, let me reframe. I'm very excited. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Well, I mean, when we had our first show at the Apollo, I could have shit bricks, girl.

[India Shawn]

Okay.

[Chrystal]

It's the Apollo. What are you saying? When you have the chance to play a legendary venue like that.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, but it's something about people sitting down, eating chicken wings while you singing. Like, it's just. It's different than when they're standing and not eating. Okay.

[Chrystal]

You're like, I'm your dinner entertainment now. Exactly.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. All the pressure is just on me, so. But it'll be cool.

[Chrystal]

Okay. Okay. Any song that you're really looking forward to performing live, or have you noticed a difference between, like, the fan, the one the fans seem to go for, versus the one you like performing the most?

[India Shawn]

Well, actually, on this new project, people are really liking Multiplicity. And I like.

[Chrystal]

And I know why.

[India Shawn]

Yeah, I like that one. But it really hits during the show, like in rehearsals. Every time that one comes on, it's like, put your. Bring your phones out.

[Chrystal]

Because we all dealing with it. We all dealing with multiplicitous people.

[India Shawn]

Exactly, exactly. But that one just. It feels so good in the show.

[Chrystal]

Yeah.

[India Shawn]

And then Kill Switch. I just. I just can do my good singing and rock out a little bit. So that one's fun.

[Chrystal]

Yes. Anything from your older body work that you're just like, I can't wait to sing this. I can't wait to get up here and perform it.

[India Shawn]

You mentioned super fine. I love doing that.

[Chrystal]

A hit that sticks like grits, child.

[India Shawn]

Yeah.

[Chrystal]

Every time. You know, my phone could just be on random shuffle or whatever superfine comes up. I'm like, actually run it back, put it on repeat right quick. That is a message for the girls. Yeah, it really is.

[India Shawn]

Feels good to do. What else? Oh, not too deep. Not too deep. I can just sit Spotlight. Yeah. I survive.

[Chrystal]

You've been trying to Find that true love in la, girl.

[India Shawn]

See if I can find it in bk. Yeah, well, I don't think it's out. I don't think it's in la. And they've been trying to tell me that for years.

[Chrystal]

And now you're like, you know what? Yeah, it may not.

[India Shawn]

I have been single since I moved back. It's been the entire time.

[Chrystal]

Well, since the Knicks won the championship, New York men have been very nice.

[India Shawn]

Okay. I didn't know what she was about to say.

[Chrystal]

No, no, no. It's been a good time in the city. Like, I feel like some people's depression has, but I'm not joking. Between our mayor and the Knicks, the men have been generous, they've been nice. They've been smiling, opening doors, buying drinks. I mean, for me. And I'm hideous. So you. You better hush your beautiful mouth. Beautiful girl in the world. I feel like it's gonna be a man or two or eight trying to find you this weekend.

[India Shawn]

I'm excited. Cause they always been fine. I mean, so if the energy's right and it's matching the. Yeah, yeah.

[Chrystal]

We just need them to not be married. That's all we looking for. You know, man, don't be. Your roommate is your baby mama. Ugh.

[India Shawn]

That's crazy.

[Chrystal]

You don't have to do that. Let's just tell the truth.

[India Shawn]

I mean, but rent is high here.

[Chrystal]

Yeah, but I fully get it. But, you know, why not? We'll have a little divergence. I just was talking to some friends about this a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, am I crazy that all I want is what I offer?

[India Shawn]

Like, literally, no.

[Chrystal]

Is it so bad that I want somebody who has their own apartment? It.

[India Shawn]

No.

[Chrystal]

But you would think I was asking for heaven and earth. Like, I'm asking for what I bring to the table. Like, why do we always have to go to my house? I. I'm.

[India Shawn]

Has that been your experience?

[Chrystal]

Yes.

[India Shawn]

Oh, yeah.

[Chrystal]

And it's like, I date rich. No.

[India Shawn]

No.

[Chrystal]

I don't know what you talking about, girl.

[India Shawn]

I have not. But yeah.

[Chrystal]

Yeah. So anyway, I did that. Yeah. Anyway, that's just me. You said that. I'm like, am I crazy, though?

[India Shawn]

I feel the same way. I'm like, I'm not really asking for perfection or whatever. Like, I'm just. Just meet me where I'm at.

[Chrystal]

Literally, just meet me where I'm at. Why is this so hard? And then I'm like, okay, but the economy's terrible, and you live in New York City. The rent is so high. And I'm like, I get that. You know, Like. Like, I don't wanna turn down what could be like a genuine amazing connection because of. Because you still live with your parents or whatever. Like, that's normal in New York, especially if there are native New Yorkers. Like, why would they leave?

[India Shawn]

But, yeah, they could just move in with you.

[Chrystal]

Well, I'm supposed to come and sit down Chris's couch. I'm supposed to, right? I'm supposed to come snuggle on your mama's couch and watch Netflix with you. Anyway, anyway, so when people are. Cause I can't. I will sit here and waste your time ranting about the things I have.

[India Shawn]

I'm just glad to hear you're dating. I mean, I feel like there was a while where you were like, I don't care.

[Chrystal]

Oh, yeah, no, there was. It was several years where I was like, actually, nobody talk to me. Yeah, this is exciting. And leave me alone. Yeah. So I'm out here, but the more I date, the more I'm like, wow, I gotta get stricter. I gotta get stricter. It can't be this easy to talk to me. Cause I'm letting too many people who do not deserve access.

[India Shawn]

Yeah. Like the first sign. And that's also one thing I took away from my recent, like, the first red flag, you know?

[Chrystal]

I don't need the first real red flag. I gotta be out of there. And you gotta know, like, what's trivial versus what actually matters to you. So that first thing where it's like, we are incompatible in this way. Let it go now. Because unfortunately, if I just stick with it and try to work it out, number one, that's not gonna work out. And number two, my feelings for you are gonna continue to grow. Even though there's this thing about you that I don't like.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

So it's going to be harder to break up with you, and I'm gonna be sadder for longer than if I had just ended it.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

Anyway, when the people are pulling up subjects of change, they hear this interview. They like, I have got to go listen to this new India. Sean, what do you hope they give themselves permission to change or be open to change?

[India Shawn]

Ooh, I just want people to have fun, you know? Cause. Cause it's really about. I mean, I was in a very liberated space when I made it. You know, the marmalades, the til infinity, you know, I want them to lean into fun.

[Chrystal]

Okay. Yeah. It's summer.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

Go out and have you an aperol spritz. Or whatever bullshit y' all drinking out there in La Matcha shit, whatever. Something like that.

[India Shawn]

Exactly.

[Chrystal]

And go canoodle with somebody and just have a good time. Enjoy the vibes. One thing about. One thing about India's entire discography. The vibes are set. It's chill. It's excellent music. It sounds beautiful. It's something everybody can relate to.

[India Shawn]

Thank you.

[Chrystal]

And so I'm so honored that you decided to come on the couch with me. It's a dream come true.

[India Shawn]

Okay. It really is. I think you are. I just think you're the funniest person in the world. And I was just like, I had to turn on the podcast, like I was. I honestly, I had to go back because I'm not. I'm not really a podcast girly like that. I'm not gonna lie. But then, like, I stopped listening to music for a while, and so just, like, cleaning the house, like, to get stuff done, I had to play you. I'm like, what's Crystal talking about? Let me see what her take is on Trump this week. What she talking about? But, yeah, so you really be getting me through some days, so it's cool to be here.

[Chrystal]

It's crazy.

[India Shawn]

Cause you.

[Chrystal]

You do the same thing for me. It's just art and such. India. Sean, tell the people where they can find you on tour tickets and where they can find you online.

[India Shawn]

I'm gonna be in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, DC, Atlanta, Dallas, LA. And you can go get [e-mail], i'm IndiaShawn on all the platforms. I'm active, I be engaging, I be responding to DMs. Hit your girl up.

[Chrystal]

India. Thank you again for taking the time. I know you're busy and you got a lot going on getting ready for the tour, so thank you for being here.

[India Shawn]

Thank you.

[Chrystal]

It has been my absolute pleasure. I can't wait to rub this in Ahsante's face and be like, guess who I saw?

[India Shawn]

Oh, he's gonna love this.

[Chrystal]

All right, y', all, that will wrap up this week's episode of Chrystal's Couch. If you have a question for me, please send me an email. Advicelesscouch.com Follow us on social media hristaliscouch. All right, we'll see you next week.