Session 4 ft Mandii B.

Summary

Crissle’s Couch — Session 4 ft. Mandii B.

Podcast by CAKE MEDIA | December 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Crissle’s Couch welcomes the vibrant and unfiltered Mandii B—co-host of the “Decisions Decisions” podcast, New York Times bestselling author, and all-around outspoken force—for an intimate, funny, and deeply honest conversation. Together, Crissle and Mandii explore the journey of self-growth in the spotlight, therapy revelations, changing relationships with money and men, and hard-earned lessons about self-worth and autonomy. With quintessential candor, they also take a listener question about love and boundaries, dishing hard truths and plenty of laughs along the way.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Their Friendship and Public Personas

• Meeting Story & Initial Impressions

  • Mutual friends and podcasting brought Crissle and Mandii together, despite initial mutual skepticism and blunt honesty.

  [00:59] Mandii B: “Who is this biracial y'all brought around me?”
  [01:08] Mandii B: “I was like, dang, y'all friend don't like me. And you probably said, yeah, I don't in front of my face. You were very, very blunt. That was before therapy.”

• Growth in Public Spaces

  • Both speak on evolving while navigating public critique and maintaining authenticity. Crissle reflects on being transparent about her journey:

  [05:19] Host: “There are 12 plus years of The Read publicly available for free, which is crazy... There is absolutely growth there. And you can't tell me that I can't have it. I do.”

2. Growth, Change, and Internet Scrutiny

• Dealing With Public Expectation

  • Mandii highlights the challenge of growing in public while the Internet preserves past mistakes:

  [03:54] Mandii B: “The unfortunate part with the Internet is…they hold you to the words you said so many years ago… I would much rather be doing this—sharing my life and being a true testament to what it's like to overcome things and change and grow—than be behind a computer doing accounting.”

• Standing Firm in Beliefs

  • Crissle comments on not compromising core values even if “the whole world can be against me.”

  [06:27] Host: “If I'm firm on how I feel about it, then all of y’all just gon have to hate me. I don’t care.”

3. Therapy, Self-Love & Healing

• Mandii’s Therapy Journey

  • Entered therapy in 2020 during a turbulent phase: pandemic, her first adult relationship, changing careers, overwhelming pressure.

  [09:06] Mandii B: “I needed help…with dealing with people…my frustration with myself in terms of being able to effectively express my feelings in ways of navigating business...I needed help.”

  • Focused first on the present, learning to manage anxiety, relationship patterns, and burnout before addressing childhood wounds and traumas.

  • Realization about growth:

  [12:03] Mandii B: “I was so proud of the growth I had reached...I started referencing my past self as a whole nother person.”

  • Reconciliation with her past self became crucial to integrating her healing.

• Honesty in Therapy

  • Both admit therapy’s hardest part is honest self-reflection and confronting the roots of behaviors—substances, sex, and the need for external validation.

  [14:11] Mandii B: “When I wrote this book…I start calling you drag yourself. Oh, I dragged myself.”

4. Relationships, Attachment, and Letting Go

• Toxic Dynamics and Side Chick Narratives

  • Mandii opens up about the cycle of returning to unhealthy relationships, the trap of being “the other woman,” and the realization of her own self-worth.

  [14:55] Host: “…you were like, yeah, this is what my stupid delusional ass thought. And once I got my heart broken, I realized how ridiculous that was.”

  • Discusses deep emotions and the struggle to detach, culminating in a pivotal moment of choosing not to revisit an ex and feeling victorious the next morning.

  [18:59] Mandii B: “I literally didn’t…Wasn’t gonna tell anyone I was going to see him. But I was going through all of those thoughts in my head, like, yeah, no…That could have backtracked me another—could have pushed me back 10 steps in therapy.”

• Emotional Intelligence

  • Therapy taught Mandii to recognize, name, and sit with her feelings (“the feelings wheel”).
  • Crissle and Mandii explore patterns of romantic attachment, often rooted in childhood abandonment and modeled relationships.

5. Money, Autonomy, and Changing Values

• Shifts in Self-Worth and Money’s Influence

  • Discussion on how growing up in scarcity shaped Mandii’s early relationships (“a flight meant something”). Now, self-sufficiency changed her perspective on sex, value, and emotional autonomy.

  [22:20] Mandy B: “When I got to a place where…I don’t need a man for money, it just became like, damn… you was letting this man into you for a pair of jeans, for a dinner. And just that made me feel shameful and worthless. Because now I view myself as more.”

• Financial Security: The Key to Liberation

  • Once women are financially independent, they can choose relationships out of want, not need.

  [26:28] Mandy B: “I genuinely get to have a healthy relationship with a man because I want to. Not because I need to.”

  • Critique of "trad wife" trends and the pitfalls of depending on a partner for security.

• Capitalism and Disagreement

  • Spirited debate about the ethics of wealth and success.

  [28:38] Mandy B: “There’s ethical human beings.”
  [28:40] Host: “That’s not true. There’s no ethical way to amass a billion dollars in worth.”

6. Healing From Betrayal & Setting New Standards

• Rebuilding Trust After Toxic Relationships

  • Mandii discusses moving from anger at her ex (and herself for staying) to learning from her experiences and raising her standards for future partners.

  [32:36] Mandy B: “Now…I have no problem asking for what I want. If you gonna come to my house, you gonna take my trash out...I don’t have to shrink myself anymore.”

• Crissle Relates Her Own Story

  • Crissle recounts the difficulty of leaving an abusive relationship—challenging the narrative of what “strong” women do.

  [34:21] Host: “I always thought that if somebody put their hands on me, I would be gone immediately…Disconnecting was so much harder.”

• Addressing Past Patterns & Family Roots

  • Both unpack how their childhoods informed their attachment styles and relationships.

7. A Listener Letter: Boundaries, Love, and Reality Checks

• [43:57] Host brings a relationship dilemma from “Sarah”:
  • Professional athlete boyfriend, a mishap with a stolen suitcase, feelings of guilt and obligation, and requests to tell his mother about the incident.

Advice & Tough Love:

• Mandii and Crissle unravel the delusion of the “healthiest relationship ever” when it is, in fact, full of red flags: lack of safety, communication issues, financial imbalance.

  [45:54] Mandy B: “I think maybe there was a desire to be with a professional athlete…You’re attaching this belief that this is the best relationship you’ve been in, because maybe you got what you wanted, but it’s not really packaged the way you wanted…There’s nothing healthy about a relationship where you can’t tell somebody what’s really happening.”

  [48:46] Host: “Just because it’s the healthiest relationship you’ve ever been in doesn’t mean it’s a healthy relationship, period.”

• Their ultimate, blunt advice: Stop caring for a grown man, re-examine the relationship, and recognize your own value independent of the “fantasy” of who your partner could be.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:47] Mandii B: “You only get to that place, though, when you genuinely love who you are, when you like yourself, when you’re confident in yourself, when you’re proud of yourself.”
• [24:53] Mandy B: “When you reach a place of the financial security to pay your own bills, to travel with your friends, to go and eat how you want to eat without needing it from a man…the way you are able to show up for yourself…the way you’re able to lean into your romantic relationships with men because you like them, not because you need them, is one of the most powerful, most liberating things.”
• [41:09] Host (quoting Mandii’s book): “It wasn’t until I felt true love and heartbreak that I could grow out of my selfishness. Experiencing love and finding self esteem allowed me to realize I was so comfortable being number two…because I lacked morals and self worth and allowed myself to be an easy target for men seeking a woman who would accept the bare minimum.”
• [42:21] Mandy B: “I have the control to just not let anything, any of the outside forces affect how I want to feel that day…So what I know now is that I have the power to feel how I wanna feel.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:02 — Meeting and first impressions
• 03:54 — Navigating growth under public scrutiny
• 08:51 — The catalyst for therapy and early revelations
• 12:03 — Integrating growth and reconciling with past self
• 13:54 — The hard truths of therapy and self-dragging in writing
• 14:55 — Side chick stories and patterns of settling for less
• 18:59 — Withholding from returning to toxic relationships
• 24:53 — Financial security as liberation for women
• 28:38 — Ethics, capitalism, disagreement
• 32:36 — Mandii on healing and setting new relationship standards
• 34:21 — Crissle’s story of leaving an abusive relationship
• 43:57 — Listener letter: athlete boyfriend, boundaries, self-worth
• 48:46 — The myth of “healthiest ever” relationships
• 51:03 — Marital roles, sacrifice, and why women should think twice

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Original Tone & Language

The dynamic is lightning fast, sharp, real, and honest—full of laughter, swearing (“bitch,” “hoe,” “y’all”), and quick-witted banter. Both women are unapologetically candid, blending humor with serious self-examination and truth-telling.

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Conclusion

This episode encapsulates what makes both Crissle and Mandii B. such magnetic personalities: bracing vulnerability, real talk about the messiness and triumphs of personal growth, and a deep commitment to empowering listeners (especially women) to claim their own worth—regardless of what society, partners, or the past might suggest. Whether unpacking their own journeys, debating capitalism, or dishing out tough love to listeners, they invite us all to take a seat on the couch, get uncomfortable, and come away just a little bit healed.

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Find Mandii B:

• Book: No Holds Barred: A Manifesto of Sexual Exploration and Power
• Podcasts: "Decisions, Decisions," "Horrible Decisions" (Behind paywall), "Selective Ignorance"
• Radio: Hot 107.9, Atlanta
• Twitch: Streaming under Mandy B

For more Crissle’s Couch: Tune in weekly for more sharp truth, candid advice, and real talk.

Transcript

[Host]

From co hosting the award winning Decisions Decisions podcast to becoming a New York Times bestselling author with no holds barred, she is a fearless voice who has absolutely no problem saying things that she don't care if y' all like it. It's what I love and am a little bit afraid of about her. Please welcome Mandy V. To the couch.

[Mandy B]

I can't believe we are on a mic together, Girl, it is a long time coming.

[Host]

I was about to say, so many people have asked for this. I. So we met, you know, through podcasting, et cetera, Right?

[Mandy B]

Oh, no. Mutual friends first.

[Host]

Was it Antoinette and them first?

[Mandy B]

No, it was Dub. Oh, my God.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Okay. Yes. I forgot you. You ain't like me first.

[Host]

Yes, I did now.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, you did. You were so ratchet. Yes, very much so. And you had no problem letting me know?

[Host]

Yeah. Who is this?

[Mandy B]

Who is this biracial y' all brought around me?

[Host]

Why did she do so much?

[Mandy B]

Did a lot. No, literally, yes. So the first time meeting.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Host]

That's how it started.

[Mandy B]

And I was like, dang, y' all friend don't like me. And you probably said, yeah, I don't in front of my face. You were very, very blunt. That was before therapy. No, very much so. But what's crazy is your friends had no problem keep bringing me around you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And so I luckily got to see in person, this. This person transform into your therapized self. But as much as I knew you didn't like me in person, I loved you online because I said, damn, there's a girl that riles the people up and doesn't care just as much as I do.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And it might have been. I mean, the read came out before my podcast did, but I loved listening to you.

[Host]

So I was like, dang, she don't.

[Mandy B]

Care who she talk about.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

And what they got to say coming back. So to me, what's crazy is I reference you as my og.

[Host]

Oh, wow. That's really crazy. Cause to this day, you say things where I'm like, mandy, please, what are you doing?

[Mandy B]

Please.

[Host]

Every time the conversations shift to Chris Brown, I'm like, here we go. Please, God. Oh, we're not even gonna bring that up. You know, I've been trying for a long time.

[Mandy B]

I'm take off his tor merch that I was gonna wear next to you.

[Host]

But I was like, let me not. Mandy, you try me, girl.

[Mandy B]

Every time.

[Host]

I love it. I love it. But that's so.

[Mandy B]

That's how I know you're a Girl.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

That is.

[Host]

I was like, oh, well, you know, podcasting you meet. No, it was absolutely Fatima and Asante that had you around me. And I was like, get this chaotic bisexual biracial out of my face.

[Mandy B]

Did we go get.

[Host]

We went to go buy pasties or something. We did the first.

[Mandy B]

I said.

[Host]

I said, I'm just meeting this bitch. She's like, we gonna go get some pasties. I said, oh, no. Oh, no.

[Mandy B]

Oh, my God. The first time. The first time I'm bringing y' all to a sex tour with me. That was crazy.

[Host]

So you have witnessed some of my growth, and I have witnessed some of your. A lot of my. We've both been through quite a bit in this entertainment space, and, you know, we had a conversation some months ago that has stuck with me. We were at brunch. Do you remember this?

[Mandy B]

I do remember this.

[Host]

We were at brunch. So we were knocking them back, but we had a lot of really interesting dialogue about, you know, the pressure to be in the public eye and saying how you feel standing on certain things. Am I a hypocrite for saying this and not that? And I just, you know, since that day, I was like, I really want to sit that girl down and talk about mental health, emotions, therapy, all that with you. Because I feel like you have a lot to say. You really have a very interesting perspective, and you're doing it publicly.

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Host]

And people don't really understand what it's like to do all this growth and do it where so many people are watching you.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. But it's also like taking back things. Like the. The unfortunate part with the Internet is we all know that we change and grow over time. But however, when you get on a M, they're like, oh, you can't change. Oh, you can't grow. Oh, you can't become a better person. Oh, they hold you to the words that you said so many years ago. And so for me, I mean, I think I would much rather be doing this, which is sharing my life and being a true testament to what it's like to overcome things and change and grow than be behind a computer doing accounting. Right. So, I mean, you know, so for me, it's funny, because our conversation also went to standing for something. And actually, I think we were talking about just everything happening, maybe with the target stuff or this and all of that, and I was just like, I can't sit here and bear the weight of the whole world. Every day I'm trying to navigate how to exist within my interpersonal relationships. Professionally, the relationship I have with myself. And now y' all want me to stop shopping at the places. Cause of, you know. And it was interesting hearing you speak and Antonette, like, y' all are so passionate about. I was like, some things I just don't get. I don't care that much about. And so for me, I just think I've aligned myself with the things that move and push me. And to me, it's my personal relationships and my growth, not what the rest of the world is doing all the time.

[Host]

Right. Well. And I don't think it's even necessarily that you have to care what the rest of the world is doing, but you have to be really solid in what your beliefs are. Yes. And. Cause this idea that other people are telling you you can't grow, you can't change your mind and all this. Yes, I, I can, will and do. I have grown up. And there are 12 plus years of the read publicly available for free, which is crazy. Need to put that archive under a paywall real bad. But they're there where you can hear the growth from episode one to episode 4,000 or whatever. Like, there's absolutely growth there. And you can't tell me that I can't have it. I do. It's right there. I have grown up. You don't have to like it. You can hold me accountable for things I said, you know, in 2014 for the rest of my life, if you want to, but I don't care how you feel about it, because I know how I feel about me. This is the sort of thing where I feel like the whole world can be against me. Everybody can be like, nah, I don't like what you said. No, I don't like this. I don't like that. If I'm firm on how I feel about it, then all of y' all just gon have to hate me. Yeah, I don't care. There are certain things that I'm not going to compromise on. The health and wellness of children, their safety, that sort of thing. Like, I'm not. All of y' all can think I'm wrong.

[Mandy B]

You only get to that place, though, when you genuinely love who you are, when you like yourself, when you're confident in yourself, when you're proud of yourself. And I think that's the reality, is that so many of us are not.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Specifically black women. Whether it be, you know, the trauma that you're overcoming from how you were raised to trying to navigate. Navigate it differently in the household that you're running now or Professionally, where everyone makes it seem like we're not good enough. And so, unfortunately, we internalize a lot of those things. It wasn't until recently that I was like, bitch, I'm lit. Like, I love myself. I love the journey. I've been in therapy for four years now. Like, the journey that I've gotten to where I love myself inside and out. Like, definitely with my body. That's been an ongoing journey for me. But once you genuinely love the body and life that you're in, boy, every changes. Everything changes. Say what you want. Yes, I'm happy over here.

[Host]

Right?

[Mandy B]

And I just want more. More women to get to that space, and they're just not. So I also understand that it's projections, bitch. Go get happy. Okay, Sorry.

[Host]

No, I mean, it's okay. That was personal. Somebody pissed you off?

[Mandy B]

Oh, every day, girl.

[Host]

Every day.

[Mandy B]

They're like, oh, no one's ever gonna want to wipe you, bitch. I don't want to be a wife. It's cause I'm rich, bitch. No, I'm just playing. But look, this is.

[Host]

Y' all gotta.

[Mandy B]

This is why I'm glad you on camera now every time. Cause your face. This is y'.

[Host]

All.

[Mandy B]

This is how she be looking at me at, bro. She be like, mandy.

[Host]

The size. Cause look how you act. But I'm glad you brought all that up, because you talked about it in the book. No Holds barred.

[Mandy B]

Yes.

[Host]

New York Times bestselling author. Yes. Congratulations.

[Mandy B]

Thank you.

[Host]

Thank you. Very proud of you. And you get really vulnerable in this book. You talk about some of the things you've been through. And so I would love. You know, I have a background in mental health. I have a master's degree in mental health counseling, but I'm not a therapist.

[Mandy B]

And ain't and ain't.

[Host]

And so I really want to talk about when you first decided to go to therapy, sort of. What was the catalyst behind that? And how do you see Mandy now versus Mandy when she first started?

[Mandy B]

Ooh, night and day. So I got into therapy in 2020. So not only was it the pandemic, I was in the first relationship that I had been in as an adult.

[Host]

This man, this man, this man, this man.

[Mandy B]

And so my first relationship was literally on the brink of turning 30. So turning 30 in itself is already a mental gymnastic way of thinking. We were in the middle of a pandemic. I'm working on two pods at the time with stark differences in terms of my co hosts, in terms of the networks I was on. And I just. I needed Help with dealing with people. At the time, it was my frustration with myself in terms of being able to effectively express my feelings in ways of navigating business. And I pride myself on it. But also, there was, like, a place of me living in fear. Like, bitch, this has to work. I just quit my career, like, eight months prior to the pandemic. And now you know. Yeah. So the world was on my shoulder, and I was just like, I need help. And what's crazy is I got to therapy to help me deal with the present. Probably for my first two and a half years of therapy, we didn't lean into any of my childhood. We didn't talk about my parenting, my upbringing. I was like, I was the oldest. I've been working since I was 15. Now I'm working out. Help me now. And it was the first, literally, like, two and a half years, I focused only on dealing with myself. So it was a lot of how to put out the fires, how to not be overwhelmed, how to not work myself to a burnout. I literally. Which is crazy. My therapist caught my pattern. I would burn out the same time every year. I was literally doing the same things, expecting a different result. I have definition of insanity tatted on me. Because you are one of them. I got love live laugh on me.

[Host]

Don't judge me.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Host]

I'm judging so bad.

[Mandy B]

But it's in Thai, so it's cute.

[Host]

Is it really in Thai?

[Mandy B]

It is in Thai.

[Host]

Are you sure?

[Mandy B]

And I got it in Thailand.

[Host]

A Thai person told you that?

[Mandy B]

I Googled it. Okay. I said, this is what I want.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

But no. So in terms of just how I was able to find this new relationship with myself, I realized my anxiety levels. I realized my relationship with alcohol and how I wasn't maybe the extrovert I thought I was. I was an introvert that was using this as a way to deal with it. I had to be inebriated to have a good time. And so I think. So probably approaching year three was also when we started writing this book. And I started with this book. Tapping into all the traumas.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Interviewing my mom, Interviewing my friends. Interviewing. And going back to conversations I had never had. Forgiving my teenage self. My self in my 20s. And I had gotten to a place where I was. I was so proud of the growth I had reached and who I'd become that I started referencing my past self as a whole nother person.

[Host]

Wow.

[Mandy B]

And I disconnected with her. I disconnected with who that girl was, who she was then. And I literally then had to bring it full circle to where you don't exist, who you are today. Without acknowledging those decisions she made what she had to overcome those obstacles. And so that's kind of what this book luckily brought to me. Like, I don't look at her as two other people. Yes. And I used to.

[Host]

Wow.

[Mandy B]

My relationship with alcohol is. Well, we're maybe gonna pause this week on it. Let's take a little break. But I realized, like, it's growth, though.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, I completely relate to that.

[Mandy B]

And we've had conversations about it.

[Host]

We have a lot of similarities in that way. We have coped with substances like so many people do. And therapy definitely got me to a place where I did not feel the need to do that anymore. But I had to do that internal work, you know, Like, I was struggling.

[Mandy B]

And that mirror is hard to look at sometimes. I realized the substance was a part of not. Sorry. Not only, like, existing out in the world with everyone else, but it was very. What's the word? I don't be knowing words like that. But listen. The face again, Mandy. The face again.

[Host]

Cause you do be knowing words like that. I do.

[Mandy B]

But, you know, Florida education system, the public school system, I ended up using it as well with sex. Okay. And so having a sex based pod for, you know, nine years now, but leaning into it in a liberated way while also in therapy realizing, oh, bitch, you weren't safe, or you were using these men as a form of validation for your insecurity, like, that was like, okay, ooh, this is tough to sit with.

[Host]

That's what therapy will do. Therapy will really show you, like, if.

[Mandy B]

You'Re on, if you're honest, you have to be. And I think that's the part that it gets hard for us to be honest with ourselves. When I wrote this book and I'm writing bitch, you were delusional. Bitch, you were insecure. And I start calling you drag yourself. Oh, I dragged myself.

[Host]

You did.

[Mandy B]

I was like, damn. You just didn't think you could even be a partner of someone, which is why you were cool being a side chick. There were things that I used to champion that it was just like, oh, no, girl. You just didn't hold the mirror up and realize that you weren't confident. You didn't feel like you were beautiful enough. You didn't feel like you were smart enough. You didn't feel like you had much to offer anyone.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And yeah, so I dragged myself, child.

[Host]

You did. You really? Especially when you said it and then you brought up the side chick thing. I was Thinking about that chapter on side chicks, you were like, yeah, this is what my stupid delusional ass thought. And once I got my heart broken, I realized how ridiculous that was. I've never been a side chick, knowingly.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Host]

So I don't really share that. Knowingly. I mean, niggas lying.

[Mandy B]

They be lying. They be lying.

[Host]

They be lying. They be lying. But I've never knowingly been the other woman. I kind of always had this feeling of like, you know, I don't want nobody that bad. But you also were like, I don't want nobody that bad. That's why I'll take this piece of a man. Yep. That's why I'll take, you know, the celebrating before the holidays or after the holidays and you lying to your wife about where you spending the night and all this. Cause at least he's honest.

[Mandy B]

Yep.

[Host]

And a lot of women delude themselves into thinking that's enough. But so you talk about that. You talk about this relationship you had that you just brought up. That was really pivotal. You know, even as somebody who's kind of like, on the outskirts of being around you, I do remember hearing about this man and then, oh, I'm not talking to him no more. Oh, I'm back with him. Oh, I'm not talking to him no more. Oh, we back together. Did he not.

[Mandy B]

You know, we broke up 13 times.

[Host]

Right. But you did finally reach that point of, like, this is it. Like, this is it. The gaslighting and all the narcissistic tissue and all that. It's been more than enough. So I want to talk about. Because in the book, you talk about having this confrontation with him and almost going to see him that night, which I think everybody who knows you agrees that would have been a horrible decision.

[Mandy B]

But also, I would have took it to the grave.

[Host]

No, no pun intended.

[Mandy B]

I was planning on taking it to the grave, but I sat with myself.

[Host]

Right. Because it's not really about what other people will think about you or how they'll judge you. It's what you will have to deal with in the morning. What are you going to tell yourself in the morning? You go with this man. What if y' all reconnect physically and your feelings get caught up in that? You mentioned rejection. Like, I would not even be able to take that.

[Mandy B]

When we talk about emotional intelligence, we don't talk about the us knowing what our emotions are.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

And what's crazy is when I first started therapy, I knew maybe two or three emotions that hoe pulled out the feelings wheel the feelings wheel. The feelings wheel was pulled out for the first, like, I would say six months of therapy because literally I would come in and I would only have, like, two or three feelings that I knew I was feeling. And until I got deep into all of the feelings. And so knowing that. So I ended up running into my ex. A year and a half after we broke up, we hadn't fully seen each other at all. And I run into him following a funeral of a really close friend of mine. Right. And so yet, at the time, even when I saw him, I was mad. And then I just wanted to fall into his arms. And then I wanted to suck his dick. And then I just wanted to, like, cry to him in a way that he had comforted me during the three years we were together. And, yeah, literally had to stop myself. I was at the station about to go see this man girl, and I turned around, he was looking for parking at the place we were supposed to meet. And I literally didn't. Wasn't gonna tell anyone I was going to see him. But I was going through all of those thoughts in my head, like, yeah, no. And I knew I would have crashed out if he ain't let me suck his D. I was like, it's the rejection. Look, do men do that?

[Host]

Are they ever, like, nah, I don't really.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think especially. Cause it seems crazy. You say, do men say no?

[Host]

Do men say no to get their dick sucked? Wow. I think they do. You, like, theoretically, it's possible.

[Mandy B]

It's possible they have the right to as well. For sure.

[Host]

Consent, always.

[Mandy B]

But again, when you deal with a narcissist, it's a power dynamic.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

And if he felt like I wanted it, he probably would have just done it just to make me feel, ugh, like, you know, so it's deeper than whether he wants the feeling or not. I think just overall, the power that someone knows they have over you to keep coming back or to keep staying in your life becomes a way to feed their ego and sense of self. But, yeah, I sat with all those emotions. I said, I'm already sad. I done cried all the tears I can cry now. I feel all of these emotions seeing him, and there was just so many other layers of emotions I wasn't ready to put myself through. So I was like, ooh, not gonna see him. Just gonna, you know, sit with my rose in bed tonight and go to bed. And then literally the next morning, I woke up and was, like, proud of myself, because it takes a lot to sit with yourself and foreshadow all the emotions and things that you could open yourself up to. That could have backtracked me another. It could have pushed me back 10 steps in therapy.

[Host]

Yes, absolutely. And probably would have.

[Mandy B]

And probably would have.

[Host]

Probably would have.

[Mandy B]

And I think we deal with that a lot with our Roman romantic relationships. It's easy for us to move on from a job sometimes. It's easy for us to be like, ooh, that girl who did me wrong. Move on out of sight, out of mind. But these romantic ties that we create, it's like none other when really choosing yourself and separating yourself from it. And that was my first time dealing with that.

[Host]

Yeah. I think it really depends on where you're wounded. In particular, whether you're super attached to partners or friends or parents, no matter how toxic they are.

[Mandy B]

Yes.

[Host]

But for a lot of women, I don't want to say a lot of birds, but for a lot of women, it is definitely that man. Yeah. And that man can put you through hell. A friend can do you kind of halfway wrong once. And you like cutting that bitch off. I'm never speaking to her.

[Mandy B]

That bitch could show up late to.

[Host]

Your birthday dinner, and y' all been.

[Mandy B]

Friends for 15 years, and now you over her. A man can drag you through hell, probably sleep with your sister, and you would still give him another chance. Like, you know, I don't. You know the psychology of it, girl. I don't. That might be something. They still trying to figure out what is happening up here with us.

[Host]

Well, it could be a lot of different things, and I'm sure you and your therapist are probably. Because the reason behind that is very individual. So it's tailored to you, your experiences, and just who you are. But it was very interesting to read about your experiences being a side chick, having so much fun money, jumping off yachts while the wife is at home with the kids. But then after this relationship ended and you found out about these other women, that sort of betrayal and the devastation you felt about that really brought the whole experience of being a side chick into perspective for you.

[Mandy B]

Not something I'm finna do.

[Host]

Yeah. So after all of that, dealing with this man with narcissistic tendencies and, you know, really grappling with the things you've done in your past that you were ashamed of, that I personally didn't think were shameful. Like, I don't think it's shameful to sell ass.

[Mandy B]

I mean, I think it's. What happens for me is my relationship with money changed.

[Host]

So where.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, I Thought a flight meant something. When you have a certain. When you reach a different relationship with money where it's not viewed at as like growing up. I grew up single parent household. I grew up food stamps, section 8. All the things. At one point, me and my family were in a shelter. Like, money was not a thing for me growing up. I didn't get my passport till 22.

[Host]

Oh, sick.

[Mandy B]

We loved. I mean, vacations for us was going from Orlando to Cocoa beach or Tampa.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Road trips.

[Mandy B]

Road trips, yes. We all didn't get on a plane as a family. Like, I just didn't do those things. Like, me and my mom and my sister just went to Disney World together for the first time. I'm from Orlando.

[Host]

Wow.

[Mandy B]

And so money for me growing up just wasn't there. And so when I got to a place where, okay, this man is doing XYZ Elementop for me and spending money, it meant something.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And then when I got to a place where, okay, I'm paying my own bills, I don't need a man for money, it just became like, damn, bitch, you was letting this man into you for a pair of jeans, for a dinner. And just that made me feel shameful and worthless. Because now I view myself as more. I view money differently. And so for that, there was a lot of shame and embarrassment for those decisions made then.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, I would offer that. What, our bodies or our vaginas? Our sex is worth is very much dependent on where we are in life, you know?

[Mandy B]

Agreed.

[Host]

And I know you always get on me and Antoinette. Cause we always bring it back to capitalism every time we talk. Maybe it's like, oh my God, these bitches in capitalism. But it is always about capitalism.

[Mandy B]

It is, it is.

[Host]

And if you didn't have to worry about stuff like that, if you grew up feeling secure and there wasn't ever any issue with money, then maybe it would have been, you know, 25k minimum to sleep with Mandy B.

[Mandy B]

Right. And not the $600 rent that I had to bust, bust down. Cause I had two roommates, three bedroom, one bath and a basement apartment in the Bronx. Like, damn, the ghetto.

[Host]

With every word. It got worse.

[Mandy B]

Everyone, everyone, I had the same Gilly, the kid size windows.

[Host]

It was terrible.

[Mandy B]

Where was my natural sunlight?

[Host]

But at the start of that chapter, you were like, you know, how much wind would you charge for somebody to sleep with you? Or something like that. And I'm like, rent and bills. If it came down to that. And it was like, I don't Know how these things are going to be taken care of? Absolutely. My pussy is worth rent and bills.

[Mandy B]

And so that's where I did get into the parallels with sex, work, and survival sex. And for me, a lot of that was like, I had to find a way how to pay some of my bills. Sometimes they weren't. I had to find a way to put myself through college. Cause no one else was going to. And I used it. Yeah. Yes. To me. I use it as a weapon. And for me to know that that's what I was using my body for. I've sat with in therapy since. I don't think I could do that today.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. And I say with myself all the time, I don't know how much I'm worth now anymore. The idea that I don't have a price tag on someone spending time with me or entering my body to me shows the growth in just how I view myself and where I'm at financially.

[Host]

It sounds like financial security.

[Mandy B]

When I tell you. Let me talk to the women real quick.

[Host]

Quick. Oh, yes.

[Mandy B]

Let me talk to the women real quick. It don't matter what color you are. It don't matter. Your. Your. Your background. When you. And I also blame and hate Destiny's Child, Neo, and Webby for this. If you. If you are a millennial, you grew up thinking being an independent woman was the way to goddamn be. Now. No, I love Desi Shop, but I'm talking about the independent woman.

[Host]

I know what you're talking about, girl. I'm just letting you speak.

[Mandy B]

I was mad. I grew up in a single parent household. It was like, ooh, be a strong, independent woman. That's the best thing to be. And it. It brought a lot of, you know, baggage with put. The world is already on our shoulder in terms of so many ways in which we show up in society that, God damn it, now I do have to be my own breadwinner. But when I tell you, when you reach a place of the financial security to pay your own bills, to travel with your friends, to go and eat how you want to eat without needing it from a man, the way you are able to show up for yourself, the way you're able to lean into your romantic relationships with men because you like them, not because you need them.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Huge is one of the most powerful, most liberating things. And mind you, I'm all for sexual liberation. There's nothing more liberating than being able to show up exactly as yourself.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Not because you have to prove that you could cook, clean, and do all these things for this man. This is who I am. My bills are paid. I want to be with you because I like you. You.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

I like your company. Not because I need a daddy. Number two.

[Host]

Right.

[Mandy B]

Not because I need a roof over my head. Not because I'm hungry. I genuinely get to have a healthy relationship with a man because I want to.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Not because I need to. And so just the power in financial security as a woman, in terms of owning your autonomy, owning the decisions you get to make from a romantic standpoint or a motherhood standpoint or all these other things is, like, so powerful. I wish more women got the chance to experience it and weren't just looking to lay on their backs or wait for a man to come in and move them in or have a baby and hope child support in that state gives you a little something.

[Host]

Lord. Well, I mean, I get that. I think. I think there's this sort of trad wife movement going on now where these influences who are not at all traditional wives because they're making a bunch of money by selling you this fucking, like cottage core videos on TikTok where bitches are making skittles from scratch. And it's like that. That bitch isn't a trad wife. She's rich as shit.

[Mandy B]

Rich.

[Host]

But she's selling you this image of like, I'm a model who speaks so softly and needs dough for my babies.

[Mandy B]

She made Coca Cola from scratch. Like, what are we talking about?

[Host]

And I mean, fine, you know, do do your thing, but the idea that, like, so that aesthetic is being sold as, like, you should be a trad wife, you should be at home doing these things for your man. And it's like, first of all, in this economy, good luck finding a man who can actually finance that.

[Mandy B]

Good luck.

[Host]

But if you do understand that any security you get from that man is completely dependent on how he feels about you in that moment. And so he can take it away as soon as you piss him off.

[Mandy B]

Yep.

[Host]

As soon as you do something he don't like, he can always leave, he can always die. You're not married, you don't have kids. Then what, like, you are? So I. I really am concerned about this sort of uprise in girls who are like, I just want somebody to take care of me because I get it. I. Lots of people hate going to work.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. It's not fun.

[Host]

It's not great.

[Mandy B]

A capitalism man. I mean, I am an aspiring.

[Host]

We disagree on so much.

[Mandy B]

We just.

[Host]

We disagree on so much.

[Mandy B]

No, we do all the Time.

[Host]

There's no ethical. Ethical billionaires, Mandy.

[Mandy B]

There's ethical human beings.

[Host]

That's not true. There's no ethical way to amass a billion dollars in worth. You are underpaying somebody when I say.

[Mandy B]

There'S no ethical human beings. There is always going to be someone in this world. And because they don't let you change.

[Host]

No, they do. They don't have that control, Mandy.

[Mandy B]

Right. But there's going to be someone who feels slighted, misused, betrayed, lied to by you, whether you intended for it or not.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

And I guess that's what I mean. Like, I don't believe there's a way in which everyone in the world can like one person.

[Host]

No, of course not.

[Mandy B]

No one's gonna. Not everyone's gonna like you. You're not going to be for everyone.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

And so I think there's ways in which some people may agree with how you move and some people may not.

[Host]

Of course.

[Mandy B]

I guess that's how I look at what's ethical, you know, what's morally correct. The things that we do here in the Western world, when you travel, they navigate differently over there.

[Host]

Yeah. So to me, ethical standards vary by culture, by region, by person to person.

[Mandy B]

Right. So to me, bitch, I'm gonna be ethical. Making my billion. Cause I think I'm ethical, y'.

[Host]

All.

[Mandy B]

The face. This is what she gives me at brunch, y', all, dinner. She just be like, okay, girl, all right.

[Host]

I don't wanna argue with you about capitalism. I wanna talk about how you recovered from this, man.

[Mandy B]

Yes.

[Host]

And, you know, so the side chick thing, this narcissistic relationship, finding out about these other women. How are you in a place now where you feel like you've healed from that kind of betrayal? How do you trust being intimate again? Because you talked about that in the book. Yes.

[Mandy B]

I mean, it took me a long time, right. When we first broke up. Yeah. Like, I had real, real ass ptsd.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And I talk about how, in terms of certain relationships, we talk about abuse, really only in the physical and sexual. And there's not much going into the emotional damage that comes from a relationship. And so for me, it was forgiving. Sounds too easy. So for me, it was being able to look at that relationship and look at myself. And what my therapist did such a wonderful job at is removing me from the hate and anger that I had built up from him. His treatment, the betrayal, all the things I found out in hindsight and was like, but look at all the things you learned from it. Look at the Experiences for what they were. You know, the things you like now you can communicate that to the next person. You're not gonna accept crumbs from these men because you know you deserve now a certain level of treatment. So healing for me looked like removing myself from being angry at staying, being angry at going back. Like, I was angry at him, but I was also angry angry at myself. I was like, dang, in all the ways, I got on the Internet and been like, well, bitch, just leave him. It's not that easy.

[Host]

It's not.

[Mandy B]

It's not always that easy.

[Host]

It is not.

[Mandy B]

So I was blaming myself for not being as strong as I thought I would be. Cause I've always been like, oh, a nigga. Couldn't it do do that to me? Cause, girl, I would leave, I would do this, girl. And so it looked like forgiving myself for that journey of him, but also being able to look back and be like, whoa. But now you know what you want out of a partner. You know what you want out of a man. You know how to effectively communicate the things that you want in the bedroom that make you feel safe, that make you feel seen that are pleasurable. Like, there was so many ways that because we were together so long, I was, I, I, I found a voice in terms of being with men that I had never had before. And so healing looked like being able to come at it that way. And so now, oh, I have no problem asking for what I want. If you gonna come to my house, you gonna take my trash out. Oh, yeah, you gonna make my bed. I used to be fearful in asking for too much from it. And now, oh, no, this is my standard. And if you can't meet it, I have no problem going elsewhere. I don't have to shrink myself anymore. And so it really, it really, the healing came from being like, again, finding a worth in me that I realized I hadn't seen it myself. Prior.

[Host]

Yeah. Again, I feel like I can really relate, especially when you were talking about this idea of, like, what I thought I would do under certain circumstances versus when it actually happened to me, what I did. Yes. So the catalyst for me going to therapy was my relationship ending in domestic violence and this nigga putting his hands on me. And when I tell you, I always thought that if somebody put their hands on me, I would be gone immediately. Please, you can't talk to me. Like, I just was always so sure from a young age, like, what I see you putting up with and you putting up with, I'm never putting up with that. Shit, child. Now, I did leave. I did actually, virtually. Well, no, I left. I broke up with him immediately. But actually disconnecting was so much harder. Actually. Not talking to him no more, not seeing him no more, because, I mean, it was complicated, but I found myself feeling sorry for him. Like, this poor thing, he did something so terrible, and now he's lost me. Like, I mean, well, yeah. Cause this nigga was like, oh, I'll call the lady. We'll go to therapy. Please, let's go to therapy together. We went to one therapy. I agreed. And I went to one therapy session with this man. And we told the therapist what happened. And the first thing she said was, so you both understand that this relationship is over now. Right? And I said, thank you, Lord. You have taken the shackles off my heart. I went to one session because I said, the therapist has already validated what I'm trying to tell you. We can't be together no more. But I did not think it would be so hard emotionally to leave someone violated.

[Mandy B]

It's tough. It's.

[Host]

Yeah, it was so hard. So I get what you're saying.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. That was another thing I had to work through in therapy. Like, I hated him, but I loved him.

[Host]

Yep.

[Mandy B]

And I still like. And we found ourselves emailing each other, like, however we could communicate because you was blocked. But then I got the emails, and then it's this. And it literally got to a point where a part of A part of me was mad that I still loved this person that treated me this way.

[Host]

Mad at myself.

[Mandy B]

I was like, bitch, why do you say, why do you still love him? And again, healing is working through. Like, you can love and hate somebody, but it's removing yourself and finding a way to move on. And again, it's the same way. Maybe we had a job we really liked. We liked everyone there, but it was time to go. We can miss certain elements and parts on something from our past, but it doesn't need to go further with us.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Mandy B]

And I think just. Just finding a way to sit with this was a moment. Not everything lasts forever.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

And I enjoyed it while it lasted. What's the next chapter in my life?

[Host]

Yes. That is a healthy relationship with connection is being able to detach when it's no longer serving you. Or, you know, sometimes relationships simply run their course and that's it. But when you are so afraid of being alone, a lot of us have fear of abandonment going back to childhood. Then you kind of end up forcing yourself to stay in situations where you're like, I don't even really like this, but I can't fathom not being with you. So I love that you brought up that you spent two and a half years in therapy being like, nah, let's talk about me right now, when what most of us, what we all eventually figure out, is that whatever you're dealing with right now has its roots in something else. And that something else is almost always childhood. And then parents. Oh, boy. That mama and daddy or whoever was supposed to raise you, you know, and so we. I think that's a very common experience for people to be like, let me just work on this. Like, I went. Cause I was like, why is. Six months. We broke up six months ago, and I still don't give a shit about nothing. I still don't care about going outside. I don't care. We got a live show coming up. I don't care about that. Like, what's wrong with me, right? And so I spent probably the first six, seven months in therapy just working through that relationship. And that's what made me realize that I had much deeper issues. Because why did I stay with that man and ignore so many red flags for so long? Why did I do that? Oh, the answer was my dad. Yeah, it was my father's behavior that I saw reflected in this man. And then I saw my mother never leave. And so it's like, I see why I didn't leave. I was conditioned to stay in this exact sort of circumstance.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, for me, I mean, my relationship with my dad is tricky, but. But it stems too, from my relationship with money and all the things. Like, that's what my dad was. He paid child support. When my mom didn't have it, it was, call your daddy, you know? And so, I mean, my dad was the atm, like, literally growing up, that's what he was. And not even a wealthy one. He was blue collar construction worker, just Jamaican. So he was always working. But I think when I finally leaned into the book, I didn't realize how angry I was at him for showing up. That or not being present and me not having a place where I ever felt safe with men because he didn't make my mom safe. My uncle got deported, we found out, because he was playing with my cousin. Just the men that came in and out of my mama's life, I always thought wasn't shit because they were always broke and she had to take care of everything. So I realized even me going towards men with money was because I was like, I don't know what's healthy. I don't know what I want, but I know I want nothing like what I saw. And so I'm entering a space of searching for ways in which to have relationships with people that I never saw.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Never saw a healthy relationship. No one in my family was married. Everyone just had kids out of whatever. Which way? Like. And so I just. I went into adulthood trying to figure it out.

[Host]

Yep.

[Mandy B]

And that's what a lot of us really end up doing. We either repeat the cycles of what we saw, or we know what we saw wasn't good, so we want to do something else, but we don't know what that something else is.

[Host]

Right.

[Mandy B]

And that's kind of what I really. I was doing in terms of navigating my relationships.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense. You grew up not having a lot of money. The main, you know, your father, the main male figure in your life or, you know, should be for most of us.

[Mandy B]

Wasn't she.

[Host]

Right. And it's. And it's positioning himself as well. I'm just here to dispense child support and, you know, soccer club money or whatever.

[Mandy B]

You think he owed it. Cause he paid child support. Now we owe him. Cause he paid it. Which is why. Yeah.

[Host]

We don't talk no more. Okay. Well.

[Mandy B]

But yeah.

[Host]

The thing about that is that I was the child you had me, not the other way around.

[Mandy B]

And I start the book that way. We don't get to choose our family. We don't get to choose our socioeconomic status, our geography. We don't even get to choose our name.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Yet here we go, having to figure out life.

[Host]

I want to end the interview portion with a quote from the book. It wasn't until I felt true love and heartbreak that I could grow out of my selfishness. Experiencing love and finding self esteem allowed me to realize I was so comfortable being number two, too. Because I lacked morals and self worth and allowed myself to be an easy target for men seeking a woman who would accept the bare minimum. Everything we just talked about, I feel like really comes back to this, this message of, like, sometimes we are so hurt by what we grew up in, we don't even see it. So not only do we not see how we're affecting others, we don't see how we're hurting ourselves. And once you are able to really acknowledge. Once you see it, because there's no growth without being able to acknowledge that something's wrong. Right. So once you really look in that mirror and you see how you've been moving, how you've been Treating yourself how you've been talking to yourself. When you open yourself up to real love, which includes vulnerability, which is why so many people don't have it. Finding that love, finding that love of self and growing in your self esteem, that is all of that comes together to help us grow this sense of self worth. And without it, you will constantly be looking for that validation in somebody else or somebody else's wallet. So thank you for this particular. When I saw this, I said, let me bookmark that because I feel like a lot of people really need to hear that you're comfortable with being number two in the literal side chick sense, but you're also number two in your own life. You don't even put on you first. Yeah, you don't even put you first.

[Mandy B]

Yep.

[Host]

So, yeah, I just felt like that was a really beautiful sentiment.

[Mandy B]

You should have done my audiobook.

[Host]

You read more people.

[Mandy B]

You read that real good.

[Host]

I mean, you know, I've been reading a long time. Long, long time. Big, big words. What do you know now that you didn't know five years ago?

[Mandy B]

Oh, one thing that I know now that I didn't know five years ago was, was the control that I have over how I wake up and feel every day. Like it was, you know, in working in corporate America, I leaned into what my boss was going to think, what task I had to do that day. I also used to just get really. I was impatient about everything. The slightest of things could ruin my day. And what I know now is I have the control to just not let anything, any of the outside forces affect how I want to feel that day. So I now wake up intentionally. Like, you know what, girl, you're not going. You don't want to be mad today. You don't want to be upset today. So it doesn't matter what happens, you gonna just let it fly because that's not how you want to feel. And so I know now that I control how I feel every day.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

And I didn't know that. I used to let the world dictate what, my attitude. Whatever happened to me, Whatever happened. How the world is. Oh, I'm just supposed to be so angry today. Oh, no, no, no, no. I done had flights canceled. I'd have had luggage. Not make it everything that used to, like, ruin my day or the moment I now I don't let it.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

It takes a couple breaths. Yeah, I think there's breathing exercises and shit that you gotta do. You gotta sit again with. You don't wanna feel this way. And you know it's gonna ruin the rest of your day. Don't let it. So what I know now is that I have the power to feel how I wanna feel.

[Host]

Yes, that is maturity. Looking at situations that would have stressed you out beforehand and saying, I can either let this piss me off or I can be a grownup about it, handle it right now, and then later on I'll fall apart when I have the time and space to. But right now I cannot let the fact that somebody stepped on my foot on the train ruin my whole day, because it will.

[Mandy B]

And then it just eats you alive to feel that way. And it's now that I know I don't want to feel that way. I don't give the power for outside, you know, anything to make me feel the way I don't want to feel now. Sometimes I wake up wanting to feel petty and messy and shit. And I'm gonna respond and talk about your mother online.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

But some days I don't want to wake up with the petty in my heart.

[Host]

Most days, I hope. Okay, well, we're not there yet. It's a journey.

[Mandy B]

But the days that I just am, like, today is a day for me and I just want to feel great. I make sure I feel great and I had the power to do so, and I. I didn't think that I did.

[Host]

I would love to get into a listener question with you.

[Mandy B]

Okay, let's do it.

[Host]

If you have the desire to do so. Of course. We've got some people here who are dealing with relationship issues. I know you've dated your fair share of rich. Nah. Athletes and such. So I have a letter here from Sarah who says, I'm in my late 20s and I've been dating my boyfriend who is a professional athlete for almost a year. Year. He's great and treats me like a princess. Recently, while he was out of town for a game, his car got broken into in my parking garage because I accidentally left it unlocked. Must be Atlanta.

[Mandy B]

Must be Atlanta.

[Host]

I told my building management about it and filed a police report. But I didn't tell him right away because I know he's grow going through things professionally and I didn't want to stress him out while he's not here. Honestly, I also felt like he would take it horribly. A few weeks later, he realized that a suitcase full of designer clothing was missing. So I started freaking out and I told him everything that happened and he's so pissed off. I was apologizing and saying that I'll pay for everything that was missing, but he Said lots of hurtful things, like I'm putting everything at risk by being with you and telling me how I'm detrimental to his life and how he's done so much for me, which is true. But he also said that I don't give that back, which is false. He's living with me rent free. Worst part of all, I'm supposed to meet his mother for the first time at the end of this week and go to his game together. He still wants me to go, but he wants me to tell his mother what happened with the suitcase. I don't understand why the hell I would do that, but he's pissed that I even asked why I should talk to her about it. What would you do in this situation? Keep in mind, this is the healthiest relationship I've ever had. It's been nothing short of amazing. This is just so off guard. I don't know how to handle. Please help.

[Mandy B]

Sarah, professional athlete at the ymca. Girl. No, I mean, I think. I think this is what we do, too, right? We blur and believe that some things are better than what they really are.

[Host]

Come on.

[Mandy B]

And so I think maybe there was a desire to be with a professional athlete. For me, the fact that you're telling us his career, I think you might just want to be a Wagner. And so I think you're attaching this belief that this is the best relationship you've been in, because maybe you got what you wanted, but it's not really packaged the way you wanted it to. He's living with you rent free. He's berated you. He said a lot of hurtful things to you. You also didn't feel safe enough to tell him what happened two weeks later. How healthy is this relationship? If you don't even feel like you genuinely can tell him what's happening, that means his emotional intelligence may be lacking, or he's in a place where you have fear in talking to him. There's nothing healthy about a relationship where you can't tell somebody what's really happening or what's going on. There's nothing healthy about that. Right.

[Host]

Cause she said, I knew he was gonna react horribly.

[Mandy B]

I knew he was gonna react.

[Host]

That's a grown man, though. What do you mean?

[Mandy B]

What do you mean?

[Host]

He's gonna throw a tantrum and scream and shit.

[Mandy B]

And so that's the thing I think we do. We like to gloss over the reality of what a relationship is when we really just want to stay in it, because it's. Maybe we're envisioning that it's gonna get better. It's gonna be better. He's not where he wants to be professionally right now, bitch. Maybe you think he gonna end up being LeBron one day? I don't know, but I think she's living in this delusional fantasy place where. No, there's actually a lot about this relationship that doesn't seem healthy because the fact that you also are paying all the bills and you threw that in there.

[Host]

Yeah. Which is crazy, girl. A professional athlete.

[Mandy B]

Professional athlete. But he living with you rent free?

[Host]

I was.

[Mandy B]

And this is when.

[Host]

A lot.

[Mandy B]

And maybe he plays overseas. Like, there's a lot of dynamics.

[Host]

Right. That this could. No, he play here. He was out of town. He played in an American league. Which one? We don't know. Okay.

[Mandy B]

Maybe G League.

[Host]

Okay. Is G League still professional to her? He's.

[Mandy B]

He's on the team.

[Host]

I'm not sure if G League is considered the pro.

[Mandy B]

I mean, he wears a uniform. Okay. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah. He's on a team.

[Mandy B]

He's on a team.

[Host]

He's on a team.

[Mandy B]

He gets check from the team.

[Host]

It's professional. Okay. Correct. You know, his job is playing ball.

[Mandy B]

And that's his job.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

So he does it professionally. Yes. And so, again, I think that a lot of us live in a grandier world than what really we live in.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

And so, for me, I don't think it's as healthy as she thinks it is. I think they lack a lot of ways in which they communicate. And unfortunately, in her late 20s, this could, up to this point, be the most healthiest. Which just. And that's another thing. We compare worse to worser. We did it when we were voting for presidents over the last fucking day. Our whole lives.

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

Well, we'll take the lesser of the two evils. And unfortunately, we do that with relationships, because once one person shows up just a little bit more than the last, it's so much better. And that might not really be the case.

[Host]

Yes. I like to say just because it's the healthiest relationship you've ever been in doesn't mean it's a healthy relationship, period. It just means it's the healthiest one.

[Mandy B]

You'Ve had, which might not say much to what your, you know, your past relationships were.

[Host]

Right.

[Mandy B]

Cause we're all trying to figure this out.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Mandy B]

But for me, I mean, to me, this sounds like. I don't know how deep he got in shooting things to her. What is she asking? What should she do?

[Host]

Yeah. What should she do in this situation? He Want talking to the mom about it and all this, I'm like, there's.

[Mandy B]

Nothing for her to do, right?

[Host]

What the mama gonna do, whoop me?

[Mandy B]

And what's he gonna do? Are you really gonna pay for all his belongings to get back? Is that something you really have?

[Host]

You know what I mean?

[Mandy B]

What you want from us, girl? You gonna stay with him anyways. You not gonna leave. This is your healthiest relationship. So you gonna keep being berated until he walks away, then you gonna be sad. Well, that's what it's given. There's nothing that she can do in this situation. She gonna stay. She either gonna reimburse all the things that got lost because it was in her possession, and she gonna keep paying that rent. What you want from me and Crystal, girl?

[Host]

So the thing is. So there's actually. I just don't think she will. No. She could put her foot down and be like, nigga, you a professional athlete. I'm moving in with you. You about to be paying these bills.

[Mandy B]

Then she would have done that.

[Host]

Well, so we are giving her advice, Mandy. Okay? So we're saying, you know, maybe put your foot down about some things. Stop taking care of a grown man who is, you know, as soon as I saw professional athlete, I assumed NFL or NBA, but it could be professional pickleball for all I know. It literally could. I just can't imagine, like you said in your book, the idea of taking care of a man, the idea of taking care of another grown person is.

[Mandy B]

So tough without pushing it out your puss.

[Host]

I literally can't fathom.

[Mandy B]

I can't fathom, like, kids and pets.

[Host]

That's it.

[Mandy B]

That's it.

[Host]

I'm not taking care of nobody who's supposed to be my partner.

[Mandy B]

Not at all.

[Host]

I'm simply not doing it. I know a lot of you girls are.

[Mandy B]

Y' all love doing it.

[Host]

Happy to do it. Y' all are getting down on one knee, proposing to y', all, doing all kinds of things.

[Mandy B]

I don't understand it. I don't understand it.

[Host]

Why would you ask a man to shorten your life expectancy? That's what you're doing.

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Host]

Married women live shorter lives than single women, but married men live longer lives than single men. Why do you think that is? Because they have a woman to sacrifice her health and well being to take care of him. Why would you ask a man, would you do me the honor of taking 10 to 12 years off my life.

[Mandy B]

Off my life, off my life? And she's literally. This man is living rent free yeah.

[Host]

So I would. Regardless of whether you break up with him, which I agree with Mandy, you probably not, but I'm damn sure not carrying all the bills for no professional athlete.

[Mandy B]

Baby, that I can't even talk to because he don't know how to receive. I'm scared of your reaction. I'm scared of your reaction. That don't sound good.

[Host]

No, that actually sounds like the absolute last thing I need to be involved with, so I wouldn't talk to his mama about it. Cause frankly, your mama don't have nothing to do with. With our relationship. But. Yeah. Sometimes you need to realize that just because it's the best you've had doesn't mean it's good. And I like that. A man who you're afraid of is not healthy, baby. The biggest of red flags.

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Host]

So good luck to you, Sarah.

[Mandy B]

Good luck.

[Host]

Good luck with this nigga whose bills you're paying and you and your professional athlete. You know, next time, you gotta lock the car and turn the alarm on and put it in the parking garage. Cause it sound like you live in Atlanta. So that's what it's given.

[Mandy B]

Oh, that's what it's given. And I ain't gonna hold you.

[Host]

I ain't gonna hold you.

[Mandy B]

We all adults. We know you should not be leaving nothing of value in your car anyways. Correct?

[Host]

Correct.

[Mandy B]

Nothing.

[Host]

Right.

[Mandy B]

Nothing of value.

[Host]

Locked or unlocked. You need to be taking everything out that car.

[Mandy B]

Take everything out that car.

[Host]

But especially in Atlanta. Why y' all breaking into cars in parking garages in Atlanta, Georgia. Where is that about?

[Mandy B]

You know, I'm there now. I know.

[Host]

That's why I'm asking you. I feel like you rested. You ready? It's so bad.

[Mandy B]

I ain't got a car.

[Host]

I said, I'm just going Uber everywhere. Oh, yeah? Well, you're rich.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. Give me a drive by. I ain't driving anywhere.

[Host]

Driver, bring the car around, please.

[Mandy B]

Literally, anytime I go out with my friends, between, like, paying for valet everywhere, the fact that there's an anxiety about what you might come back to when you go back to your vehicle, it's crazy. I don't want that anxiety. I already live with anxiety. I don't want the car adding anxiety to my life.

[Host]

That is I. When I. You know. Cause Beyonce's laptop got stolen with all the stuff on it, the choreographer and all that. And I'm like, y' all are breaking. Well, so, yes, there was definitely that question of, like, why was it in the car? But I'm like, oh, it was in A parking garage. I just. I'm like a parking garage with attendants.

[Mandy B]

Is you could just walk into a parking garage.

[Host]

This is what I'm learning. Okay? So best of luck to you, Sarah, in navigating this relationship. But I think you deserve even better treatment than what you're enjoying from this man.

[Mandy B]

Mandy V. I can't believe we did this.

[Host]

This is so overdue. It's been such an honor to have you on the couch today. Thank you for joining me. Yes, next year selling author tell the people where they can find you. You do like eight shows.

[Mandy B]

I do everything. Oh my God, I can't shut up and I don't know how. So again, you can purchase my book wherever you get books. No holds bar to do a manifesto of sexual exploration and power. I always say support your local queer owned black owned woman owned bookstores if you can. Also every Monday, decisions, decisions. Wherever you listen to podcasts, horrible decisions is behind the paywall that hasn't gone anywhere. And then I'm also on selective ignorance. So Selective ignorance is my solo pod where I break down the way that we become outraged by everything happening in the world and we dissect the reactions that it makes makes everyone feel. And I normally sit with people I do not agree with because boy do I love those types of conversations, girl. And then if you're in Atlanta with the anxiety that your car is going to be broken into, I am now on the radio. So I'm a radio personality now on Hot 1079 off the clock every Saturday from 6 to 8.

[Host]

Congratulations. Oh, wait.

[Mandy B]

And on Twitch with Mandy B. Follow me. I'll be streaming, y'. All.

[Host]

She's streaming as well.

[Mandy B]

That's what the people doing now.

[Host]

You're the casino.

[Mandy B]

I'm an old ass girl. What the little young kids doing? I guess I gotta get.

[Host]

We don't even talk about your bisexual manicure. Listen.

[Mandy B]

Well, it's because everyone brings it up now at this. Oh, everyone at this point just know I'm for the girls and the boys.

[Host]

We know, girl, we know.

[Mandy B]

And I'm currently. Well, I'm not single. I have four boyfriends, but that's a whole nother conversation. I'm living. I'm living my best life.

[Host]

We're gonna take a break. We're gonna.