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- [00:02]
A
Hi and welcome back to Crystal's Couch. I'm so excited today because I am welcoming my very first clinician to the couch. Dr. Raquel Martin is here. She is a licensed clinical psychologist, professor, scientist, podcast host and content creator. You've probably seen her videos. She's very, very popular online. She has built a very powerful platform around mental health education and anti oppressive care. She is the founder of Martin Psychological Services and the host of Mindy Mental podcast where she helps people navigate burnout, racism, related stress, parenting, and self care through honesty and empowerment. Dr. Martin's work is rooted in transparency, authenticity and community. And I am so excited to have her on the couch today. So many people have tagged me in your videos, sent me your videos. I'm like, I already follow her, please. I already follow the good doctor. But thank you so much for being here today. How are you feeling?
- [01:03]
B
Absolutely good. Like, I, I'm excited. Like, I've been listening to you for years. I mean, since before I had babies, since, you know, when I used to be free. You know what I'm saying?
- [01:18]
A
Are you like, wow, I can't believe that girl really went to school?
- [01:21]
B
No, I think, listen, I think it's fantastic. I also was not surprised by you being like, you know what? No, I don't wanna, I don't wanna. Yeah, yeah, I have all the information and what I do is considerably more fun. So you know what I'm gonna do? I'm glad I have the education, but I'm also, I want to live my life in fun, you know what I'm saying? So I'm gonna have both. I know more and because I know more, I know how important it is to have fun. And this ain't.
- [01:51]
A
This ain't it.
- [01:51]
B
That's not that. As soon as I. You were like, not gonna practice, I said, I know, that's right. It's a lot. We do a lot of fun stuff, but we ingest pain for a living. Like, it's, it's a lot.
- [02:06]
A
Yes. You hear some of the saddest stories, which is, you know, I, I enjoyed my time as a student clinician. It's just more of the incredible responsibility it is to be a therapist.
- [02:20]
B
Yeah.
- [02:20]
A
I was like, being a podcast host, you can just go if you want to. But being a clinician is a very real responsibility and I took it so seriously as a student. I was like, I, I know that I would stress myself right out if I tried to make this a career path, so.
- [02:38]
B
But I love that though, right? Because that's how it's supposed to be. I, I think that you to understand how serious it is. I feel the same way I do about that as I do about like people who just. Who choose to be child free. And they're like. I'm like, is it, is it that people are just not taking stuff seriously or is it because they take parenthood so seriously that they actually know that they're like, hey, no, I don't want to, so I'm not going to. And I'm in a place where I get to choose that, you know, like whenever people say that, I'm like, I think the people who choose to be child free take a more seriously than the ones who just be. Let's see what happens.
- [03:16]
A
The doctor said, and maybe I'm going to get off my ass because I say that all the time.
- [03:21]
B
Let 2026 be the year that you guys stop with your. In fact, your obsession with child free individuals. Y' all, are y' all okay? What is going on?
- [03:30]
A
Because all we're doing is living the way we were born. I wasn't born with, you know, people.
- [03:35]
B
Like when I'm like, why are we still asking this? As a mom, when they say they don't want to have children, I'll be like that. I know that's right. I hope you get to keep making that choice. I hope you get to do that. That's amazing. Praise God.
- [03:46]
A
You know, it's a massive responsibility when I see massive videos of people being like, oh, child fe. People just don't know how much time they have. Yes, we do.
- [03:56]
B
Or do they?
- [03:57]
A
Yes, we do. I do. Not on purpose. Right.
- [04:01]
B
You know, and someone. The older I get, the more I learn. It's actually pretty tough to have children. So it was a choice for me.
- [04:09]
A
I will listen to the good doctor since y' all don't listen to me, y'. All. So I wanted to. I have some questions here that I think would be really well addressed with a licensed provider such as yourself. So if you don't mind, let's jump right in. Our first letter comes from Doreen. And Doreen says, hey, Crystal, I'm a Black woman who's 30 and I've been in and out of therapy since 2013. The cycle is the same. I fall into a battle depression spiral, get into therapy, pick up the pieces again, and then stop therapy. Mostly due to money constraints. I'm on my fourth round of therapy and really love my therapist this time around. My previous therapist focused on CBT and self help tools for me to help with depression. But my newest therapist thinks that I have adhd. I personally have never considered ADHD because it feels like everyone has it nowadays and I think my phone just fucked up my attention Spanish. But throughout our sessions she has challenged my biases and I have recognized how leaving this untreated has left me depressed, anxious and burnt the fuck out. I met with a psychiatrist hoping they could help me figure out the next steps to tackle ADHD. And after 30 minutes she claimed that I have bipolar type 2. I tried to be as truthful as possible during my session and I can see how some of my answers could lead her that way. But it felt like 30 minutes was not nearly long enough to determine this and be ready to prescribe antipsychotics. I reviewed the diagnosis with my therapist and she believes that all the hypomanic moments the psychiatrist used for her diagnosis were moments of hyper fixation. Like staying up two days with little sleep to create a website for a K pop group that I love. Or that time that I didn't sleep so I could write six chapters of a book that I have not touched. Since I really want to be open and unbiased about a bipolar diagnosis, but I'm just not sure about it. What's your advice for discussing diagnoses with psychiatrists that you don't resonate with? Should I see her again, which is pricey, or just try to find another psychiatrist? My therapist has offered to reach out to the psychiatrist to share notes, but I'm curious if you have any other suggestions. With love, Doreen.
- [06:27]
B
At the end of this, I'm going to make sure we go over how to report harm with clinicians. So I do want to, you know, because I'm feeling like that's going to be a recurring theme, like not particular for this one. I think it's fantastic that they have a therapist who they've been working with for a significant amount of time because you're right, a 30 minute evaluation is not the right amount of time to diagnose anyone. I do intakes, when I do intakes before I work with someone and I'm not diagnosing them after that when it comes to that in the first place. So I would One, your therapist already has my heart because they said, well, let me fix this because this woman, this person lost their mind. So let your therapist talk to them because one of the biggest sign is the person that you have been working with consistently said no, they're confused. Let me help them, let me clear that up for them. That's continuity of care that we always want in the first place. That's one of the things I used to love about working at the hospital is that if I saw something in the chart and I was like, no, I, I'll be like, what time they take lunch? I'm walking downstairs because I ain't like, what you, what you put in the chart, right? Like that's the continuity of care. So one, I wouldn't go see the psychiatrist again if I do decide to see them until my therapist spoke to them because they seem to be confused. Two, I would say always lean, lean with your gut in the first place, because 30 minutes is not an appropriate time to provide anyone with a diagnosis of anything in the first place. So you want to talk about the fact that you want a full diagnostic of eval, you don't want a brief screener, like it's not a checklist in the first place. And there's nothing wrong with if that is your diagnosis in the first place. But I want you to get treated for what your actual diagnosis is in the first place. And it's really tough with psychiatrists because every single mental health professional out there, but psychiatrists have even, even bigger of a push to do medical management in a short amount of time. There are, and I don't know if your psychiatrist was Black, but like they're. 5% of licensed psychologists in the US are Black, 2% of licensed psychiatrists in the US are Black. And the time crunch is absurd. So it's also like, it's an aspect of a system. But no one should really be getting that level of diagnosis. Especially with anti psychotics. You're not, they're not giving you Flintstone vitamins, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is, this is some incense serious medication. Like this is serious medical with serious side effects. It's one of the reasons why a lot of people don't stick to the medications, right? Like seriously request the collaborative care that you've been doing. I would not see the, the psychiatrist until after the person converses with them. And also let your therapist know, like you're thinking about this. And if they talk to the psychiatrist and they're like, you know, you know, person, patient to, to clinician, do you feel like I need to see this person again? This therapist say, no, I'll be real with you. I was talking to a wall the whole time. Find somebody else. Find someone else to do it. You know, like it's, I wouldn't. And you could be honest with that, right? Like that's the whole important Part. But I think you did the right thing by checking with your therapist. Your therapist perspect because they're going to be the ones who's following this treatment plan. Like when I'm seeing someone who meets with a psychiatrist, I'm checking with the psychiatrist, but I'm checking in myself about the symptoms of what the psychiatrist prescribes, how that's impacting our treatment plan. They also have to work with the psychiatrist because that's the goal as well. Right. So no, no, you right. That's wild, bro. Like you know, that's no turn is bad.
- [09:49]
A
Now you're trying to put me on drugs.
- [09:54]
B
Intense, honey. Anti psychotics.
- [09:57]
A
Right.
- [09:58]
B
Wow.
- [09:58]
A
We're not talking about a little trailing or something. Like we talking about going.
- [10:03]
B
This is my. You don't even know my middle name and you prescribing me lithium.
- [10:06]
A
Yeah, please.
- [10:09]
B
What. What happened? No, you're absolutely right. Your therapist is fantastic to volunteer to do that. And I wouldn't see them again until that happens in the first place. And I would continue on with the treatment plan that your, your therapist has had when it comes to ADHD and things like that. Because it sounds like you've actually just found a fantastic person who, who is there to advocate for you. So I, I love that. And this is a really good example of like when you, when you're going into doctors and stuff like that, you're, you're using the tools of the doctor. Like they have checklists and stuff like that. They have tests and blood work and stuff therapy. And mental health is very different because the tool is the clinician. Like the assessment is really, really important. And when I'm working with individuals on racism based stress and working with clients that have been transferred to me, the number of times I have changed my client's diagnosis from I don't know, a defiant disorder to PTSD or I don't know, ADHD disorder to anxiety. And the only difference, it's not the manifestation of the symptoms, it's the fact that like I have the tools as someone who focuses on black health and well being and who understands the difference in manifestation of ADH in men versus women in different generations as well. Right. So this can happen. It's very frustrating. But the, when it comes to mental health, the tool is the person. And it's. You're really limited to the amount of information they take in. That's why we do need continuing education. Like if, if I, I had someone who was transferred to me and they gave them a defiant disorder and I looked at this little black boys file. And I was like, he has ptsd. This is clearly ptsd. What are you talking about? Right? Change that diagnosis. Custom out. Of course, I do that for fun. But yeah, like, that's the best. Listen, the best thing about this terminal degree, I'll be like, oh, I'm sorry, did you know more than me about this?
- [11:56]
A
Right. You gonna fight me or are you okay? No.
- [12:02]
B
Okay. Right.
- [12:03]
A
Yeah. Yes. So I, I love what you said about the clinician being the tool in mental health services. I think that's part of why the therapeutic relationship is so, so key. It's like probably the number one determining factor in whether your therapy is going to be successful or have any sort of positive impact on you. Because you have to have that relationship with the therapist to build that trust, build that rapport and have faith in their education and their ability to really see you and not just write you off as a problem, which is something that, you know, black and brown people really tend to run into in dealing. Right. And I think something like 85% of therapists are white in this country. I think that's.
- [12:53]
B
And even, even elitists. Right. Because the cost to go to the programs, it sees a certain level of ethnicity, but also like pay scale, because the programs are expensive, so people will talk about ethnicity. But you also have to think of what backgrounds are these clinicians coming from. Because if you don't have a scholarship for, say like a psy D Program program, flat out the pocket is $200,000.
- [13:14]
A
And, and who has the money to do that?
- [13:18]
B
A certain kind of person. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- [13:25]
A
Yes. So I, I also have a diagnosis of adhd. I've been very fortunate that my psychiatrist is not like this person's psychiatrist who's like adhd. No. Sounds like a personality disorder to me or, you know, some other mood disorder or something like that. But I, I completely agree that it's going to be. For. It's going to be in Doreen's best interest to allow her therapist to share those notes and, and let them work together. Because the therapist is the person who has been seeing you all this time. And they probably have a much better idea when I. This is what I wanted to bring up to you specifically. So when I was a student, student clinician, my entire perspective of diagnosis changed when I realized that so much of it is tied to insurance. The insurance companies want you to hurry up and stick a label on this person. Do it within the first couple of sessions. Do it after intake. If you can. And hurry up so we can decide how many sessions we're going to pay for and how long this person can see you. So learning about how that really shifted in the 60s and 70s from the clinician deciding, let me just work with you and talk to you and get to know you before I throw a label on you versus insurance coming in, changing the game and being like, no, figure it out and do it right now so that we can decide what we pay for. That made such a huge difference in my understanding. I was like, wait, I literally just got here, I'm a student and of course my supervisor is reviewing everything that I do, but after a 45 minute intake, you want me to come up with three possible diagnoses for this person? Are you kidding? I don't know.
- [15:11]
B
Whole treatment plan. And then like so many people will be so upset about individuals who don't accept insurance. And it's like, there's the fees, there's the fact that I'm talking to somebody on the phone for hours about, please just cover this person's treatment. And the person on the other line and has no clinical training, but they're saying no. I actually think their, their PTSD should be able to be cleared up in six to eight sessions. And you on session nine. So we're not paying for this or the, or the clawbacks. A lot of people don't realize that, like there can be the epitome of you, the insurance company paid you to do this care. And then eight weeks later they're like, hey, we paid you to do these sessions with this client. But we actually now we actually don't think that we should have reimbursed you for that. So we need the money back. You literally have to give them the money they gave you or you're on the phone for hours for reimbursement when you could be seeing two other clients. And it's like, I get why y' all pissed. I totally get why individual man that you don't accept insurance. But I do want you to realize you should not be mad at me, okay? I. You need to be mad at them Blue Cross mother flippers, man. I'm just like, it's crazy. And it's just like so many people who don't accept insurance. A lot of times individuals are like, they're trying to get rich and they're unethical and it's just like, no, I think it's more unethical for me to say, hey, I'm not going to give you a diagnosis yet. Because, hey, we just met, right?
- [16:28]
A
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- [18:35]
B
What do you.
- [18:36]
A
I'm wondering if you're familiar with this push to kind of reclassify some. Some personality disorders like BPD or NPD as just CPTSD or something like that. And. Yeah, right. It's always been my understanding that ptsd, CPTSD is like an umbrella. And underneath that umbrella is all these other diagnoses. But just because you have this one doesn't mean we can just say, oh, well, it's just this thing. What do you think about that?
- [19:07]
B
My whole thing is the dsm, the book that we use to diagnose people is trash anyway. Okay. By Sora. Like it's, it's awful. So I totally understand people going back and forth about like, oh, I want to, we need to use this diagnosis and the other diagnosis. I also think they need to be really more so focusing on the fact that like no matter what the diagnosis, you're, you, you suck as a clinician. So I kind of at times think, you know, like the focus, you know, like it's like, oh, you're mowing the lawn when the house is on fire. I think there are other priorities because at the end of the day when I provide the diagnosis, I give the diagnosis if it's insurance. If I'm not insurance, I'm not forced to give the diagnosis. There are implications for certain diagnosis, but I think a lot of times more people are focused on, okay, so if I give this diagnosis, I can do six sessions versus eight sessions. That's a lot of time. What people are fighting for in the dsm, like certain things are coded as okay, it used to be bipolar personality disorder and maybe that one gives six sessions. But if we get CPTSD approved, I can actually give my client eight sessions and stuff like that. They're focused on that. But the treatment plan, your treatment is going to, I mean you could give the same exact treatment for someone. Like say I'm doing CBT for PTSD or CBT for whatever. Your skills are going to come in either way. And I think more so people are avid fighting for a book that I know is trash anyway. Like the DSM is trash. It's culturally biased. I don't want to say I'm a hippie when it comes to diagnosis. I know I have to give diagnoses, but when it comes at the end of the day, my treatment plan is going to be according to the person. Because person, patient at 10 o' clock may have depression and person at 11 o' clock may have depression. And I'm still doing the same modality, but it's different according to them. So like when everyone's fighting over this, I'm just like, yeah, I kind of think you guys should be more so focusing on, you know, having non individualized training for clinicians and not having clinicians come in and say racism is a choice and stop focusing on it. Like I know they, I know why they focusing on it. But like so many of y' all are terrible. Like, no matter what the diagnosis is, I can give you cptsd. I give you bipolar. Either way, I'm not referring them to you because I think you suck as a clinician. I just think at times, okay, yeah, like, I get it, but I'm like, okay, okay, so let's say we add it all to the book. Does that fix the problem? No, because y' all still suck. You still don't learn about liberation psychology. You still don't understand the impact of oppression on depression and adhd. You still don't understand the aspect of how. You guys see it as anger. When this child is clearly depressed, you focus on the diagnosis. And I. I wouldn't even let. I wouldn't let you treat.
- [21:41]
A
I mean, I would not let you treat my dog.
- [21:44]
B
I wouldn't even, like. Right. I wish you. I'd be like, would you. Would you. What you diagnose now? Mind you, my dog, he has black and white spots. So I'm like, so which part of the dog. What part of my dog you diagnosing today? The white part. Oh, okay. Because the black part you gave defiant disorder, but the white part you said had anxiety. Interesting.
- [22:01]
A
See, this is something that came up in my. It came up in my graduate program multiple times. I think I was very fortunate to go to grad school in New York City where. Yeah.
- [22:11]
B
Because y' all mad diverse.
- [22:13]
A
Because we're diverse. And, you know, inclusivity and diversity and cultural competence was a huge part of the curriculum. And so they were constantly telling, you know, my mostly white classes, constantly saying, it is your responsibility as a clinician to meet clients where they are. That is on you. So you, white girl, need to figure it out. Like, you figure it out.
- [22:40]
B
It's your job. They should be educating you, and you.
- [22:43]
A
Need to be checking your own biases. You need to be working with other clinicians. You need to be on top of things so that you can meet the client where they are. That is. That is your job. And I don't think we're training most white clinicians to do that at all.
- [22:59]
B
No, no. I teach a whole liberation psych course for clinicians specifically for that. For how try to challenging harmful views and even harmful views in your clients. Because there's this whole thing lately about neutral therapists, and I have no interest in being a neutral therapist. Therapy isn't neutral. It's just not. Therapy is a neutral. Money is in neutral. Crime is an economic issue. Like, I'm not here for it.
- [23:19]
A
Right?
- [23:20]
B
So. And I didn't learn about it in school. But, like, one of the biggest things I state is that, like, a lot of times people will think we're only treating therapists, are only treating the victims. Right. But offenders have therapists, too. They just either lying or the therapist. The therapist is a neutral therapist. And it's just like, well, I'm here to help you feel safe. I'm here to address the fact that that was a trash statement, sir. When did you learn that? How do you think that. How do you think that impacts your communication style? You came into session trying to build relationships, and you just made a racist and ableist statement. Why would anyone want to build a relationship with you? Let's talk about that.
- [23:54]
A
And I'm supposed to send people to see, you know.
- [23:57]
B
You know, like, so it's just like, a lot of times people will. They'll be seeing these clinicians and they forget, like, offenders have therapists, too. But I think they have neutral therapists and they don't also challenge in the room when your client said something harmful. And it's just like, so their goal is relationship building. And you let them come in every single week saying. Making racist statements. And how does that deal with their relationships? So, like, it's. I think it's fantastic. Your environment was incredibly diverse. But one of my colleagues at Hopkins, when we had had. We're almost done with our doctorate, they were talking about cultural competence, and she said her cultural competence is taking off her diamonds before she goes to her clinic in Baltimore. And this is. This is the. This is not like somebody off the street. This is my colleague. This is someone who I went to supervision with.
- [24:40]
A
This is somebody about to go practice.
- [24:42]
B
Yes. And they said, take off my diamonds. I would never. And I just remember being like, oh, okay. No.
- [24:51]
A
Having a tablespoon of class consciousness is not.
- [24:56]
B
So. I think people need to know that. I know it's so hard to find clinicians that work with you, and I know it's a lot. But the same way humans are trash. Clinicians are human.
- [25:04]
A
Yes, they are. Oh, I'm so glad you said it, because that's exactly how we're going to wrap this up. There are some therapists that are just trash. They say horrible things. They're licensed and unsupervised, so nobody's double checking. And a lot of people just stop seeing it instead of reporting them to the state licensing board or whoever else, they don't even realize maybe that the clinician has crossed the line or done something inappropriate.
- [25:30]
B
So, absolutely.
- [25:31]
A
Let's get back to the Letters. Because we do have some trash clinicians in these letters. Oh, I'm sure not just psychiatrists, child.
- [25:41]
B
And don't be. Don't be giving. Listen, don't be giving Crystal hate for this. If y' all got a problem, come see me, all right? I ain't got no issue North Philly all day. You see what I'm saying?
- [25:49]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [25:49]
B
This ain't got nothing to do with her. This is all about me.
- [25:52]
A
Thank you.
- [25:53]
B
Licensed clinical psychologist. I'm licensed in, like, 40 states now. Come see it, okay? Because the. The degrees have changed. Nothing but my pay scale. You got a problem with what I'm saying, feel free.
- [26:03]
A
Right? I know that's right.
- [26:04]
B
Okay. This is all me have.
- [26:05]
A
When people have a problem with what I say, the first thing they want to say is, well, I'm going to tell the state of New York and get your license snatched. Are you?
- [26:13]
B
Oh, cool.
- [26:15]
A
Are you gonna do that?
- [26:16]
B
Feel free to give me my license number as well, while you're at it.
- [26:19]
A
License number?
- [26:22]
B
No, feel free. I already know how it goes. You've been on air for a minute. I'm sure you get a lot of flack. Me? My threshold is just so high. Oh, I'm gonna report you. Well, here's my. You can find my information everywhere. Feel free.
- [26:33]
A
Oh, and tell them what I said verbatim. Yeah. I meant it when I said the Trump administration is having a negative effect on people's mental health, especially by taking away the basics that people need to live, like food and affordable housing. I meant that shit.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah. The PTSD is rampant. People feel uncomfortable walking outside. People. You know, like, people will talk about suicide prevention and come to therapists. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I think we. We are tertiary fourth care. Food security is suicide prevention. Job security is our prevention. Not being on food apartheid, not being home. You coming to therapist, I feel like you got a bigger thing to focus on. I'm step number four.
- [27:14]
A
Yes. Okay. Yes.
- [27:15]
B
Suicide prevention is how you vote. All right. I got a lot of. When I told someone that, you know, if you voted for Trump, I feel like you shouldn't be able to experience joy for the last. For the next eight years. And then all of a sudden, I'm a monster.
- [27:29]
A
I'm a monster.
- [27:34]
B
I didn't do anything.
- [27:35]
A
I didn't do that. Yeah.
- [27:37]
B
Now I'm a monster. Okay.
- [27:40]
A
Oh, okay. So let's get to our next letter. This one comes from Sierra. Sierra says, I'm 17 and just entering my senior year of high school. I've always been told I had an old soul. My grandmas and aunties would say, this child, haven't been here before and look at me in awe whenever I said something wise. And while being smart at such a young age had its perks, people don't really talk about how damaging it can be in the long run. During quarantine, my social anxiety and depression got much worse. When school started back up. I struggled to make friends and ended up spending most of my time alone. My mom noticed and got me a black therapist who I saw every week for about three years. But at the start of 2023, my sessions suddenly ended. My mama told me it was because our insurance changed and we couldn't afford it anymore. I didn't realize at the time that this would hit right before I was going to go through one of the hardest, most mentally challenging periods of my life. I had just ended a close friendship before high school started and I walked into ninth grade completely alone. And to this day, I still have not made new friends. Going through that without professional help was rough. And I really missed having someone to talk to besides my mama. My first two years of high school were heavy with depression. It wasn't until this year that I learned the truth. My therapist hadn't stopped seeing me because of insurance. She actually discharged me and told my mom that she ended our sessions because I was too self aware for therapy. That broke me. People don't understand how exhausting it is to constantly know what's wrong with you and how to fix it every single time. I've always been the friend with the answers. The one who knew what to do. When it came time for me to ask for help, I couldn't. I already knew what people would say and that fear sank in. Am I going to have to go through my whole adult life without ever seeking guidance just because I seem like I have it all figured out? I really loved therapy, even though I often knew the root of my problems because having that outside perspective was comforting. It really helped. And now, as I'm about to head into college, I worry about being isolated all over again like I am in high school. I don't want to miss out on experiences because I'm too afraid to reach out for support. I want help. I need someone to talk to. I don't mind being alone, but I also crave connection. And I miss laughing with friends and being myself and feeling like I belong. How do I move forward? How do I let myself seek professional help in my adult life after being told I'm too Self aware for therapy with love, Sierra. Oh, only 17.
- [30:18]
B
Tell her to text me. I'll find you somebody to hang out with. I promise you I'm today. Okay, first of all, there is no, like, one reason to start therapy. Like, therapy is not. Therapy is not a reward for you being confused. Like, you don't get therapy just simply because you're struggling with something or something recently just happened. Like, there's nothing specific about coming to therapy. Like, therapy is a. Everyone deserves a space to be able to unpack something I say all the time. I cannot. I can't. I hope my. My. My sons love their. Their psychologist as much as I plan to because I genuinely will just need somebody else on my team. I have no interest in doing this alone. So I hope. I'm sure they'll have plenty to talk about. She made me talk about my feelings all the time. I'm sure. Like, my mom. My mom is exhausting. Everything was about racism or feelings. Sure. Yeah.
- [31:15]
A
Well, that's what they.
- [31:16]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [31:17]
A
They're gonna talk about racism and feelings. But I get it. It is.
- [31:20]
B
But you know, as a parent, that woman doesn't know what she's talking about, you know? Right, right. The whole point of it is just being a support system for people who deserve care. So I one, I want to affirm the fact that, like, I do think you'll be able to find someone. Sierra, I do think what happened to you was incredibly unkind. I do wish I could this clinician in the street somewhere. I do have. I'm in therapy too, so I too have to work on my violence. Once again. I'm from North Philly. It's. It's my default switch.
- [31:50]
A
Oh, okay. Like k. I work.
- [31:52]
B
Yeah.
- [31:53]
A
Listen.
- [31:56]
B
When people be walking around acting like jerks, I be like, you don't think I want to be a jerk? That's my default. I. I turned the switch off. But, like, it. It goes back quickly. So I do think you should have received better care. I would encourage you. So if you're going into college in the first place, one, I want you to look at the college mental health centers, and I want you to think about them as using them early. Right. Don't think about needing to receive care when you're in a crisis. You can also have receiving care and building a relationship with someone at baseline. Right. Because just like Crystal said, one of the most important things is the therapeutic alliance you have with your person. So you don't. It's even more uncomfortable because therapy can be Uncomfortable. Anyway, coming into session. It's your first session. Hi. How are you doing? Doing? I am looking up tallest buildings because I feel like I have to jump off of something and you don't even know this person. Right. It's even better when you can come in and be like, hey, I know we. We see each other once a month. This month, actually, I've been struggling a little bit more, so can I come in earlier? Right. And we talk about something. You're already building a therapeutic alliance with the person. Because what people mistake therapy for, it's not solely about having the training of the individual, like someone who is licensed and stuff like that. It's also about the relationship that you have and being able to build something that you actually maybe never had. Up close. Close. You're being able to talk to someone who is actually listening to you without attacking, who was providing information without judgment. For so many people, therapy is the first time that they had that relationship. And it's one of the things that gives them hope about being able to build that outside of session. Right. So it's not just about the fact that we have training. It's also about the fact that we are able to model to you appropriate and inappropriate ways to respond to things. So just being able to talk to them. Right. Because so many times people will be like, oh, this person. This person can have all the licenses in the world. But then you go and see them and it's like, it's not a vibe. Like, you don't vibe with what they're saying with you, and maybe they're saying all the right things, but culturally there's a disconnect. Or, you know, they use $20 words when a $5 word will do. It's just that alliance just isn't there. Right. So I also. That's why I encourage people to see individuals at baseline, even when they're just trying to check in. Because there's nothing that says you have to do weekly or. Or bi weekly or booster. I've worked with my psychologist for years. I worked her in the beginning when I was going through a huge level of grief. When we went. We were weekly, and then we switched to bi weekly, and then we went to boosters. And then when something big comes up, like I'm dealing with a huge amount of grief now we switch back to weekly. Right. But she's also someone who reasoned for filth and being like, oh, this isn't a new issue. You was dealing with this in grad school. And I'd be like, hey, I Thought we were colleagues. Rein it in.
- [34:26]
A
I'm under attack.
- [34:28]
B
Like, you know, like I'm under attack. But it's good to be able to work with someone. So I would encourage you to one look up your counseling centers. I also would encourage you to understand that you can benefit from so many different levels of therapy and so many different types. I would love to see you in a support group. I would like. You don't have to just have individual therapy. Support groups are so, so incredibly helpful because one of the biggest stressors with therapy is feeling isolated, like no one else is dealing with what you're dealing with. So when you are being faced by 7, 8, 9, 10 other people who are like, oh yeah, that, that's awful. That happened to me Tuesday. There's just something so affirming because yes, your clinician will be there and they'll be able to with care and stuff, but they likely like 10, 15 years older than you versus the 18 year old next to you who's just like, yeah, let me, I can help you out with this afterwards. You know, Doc ain't gonna tell you what to do, but if you need help, I can help you jump up. You know what I'm saying? Just like, just in the realm of having people who, who are dealing with the same experience. Right? So I would love to see you in a support group. Virtual and in person are incredibly helpful. And it's even more helpful in college because a lot of times there are way more support groups than individual care. Um, and it's because one, you're able to help 10 people instead of in 50 to 90 minutes instead of one person in 50 to 90 minutes. So it's more fiscally responsible for a lot of colleges to invest in someone, but they also are able to provide way more people with care. I will say that I think it's great to see your self awareness as a strength. The thought process of like, I always know the root of the issue. I mean, I might challenge that. You know, I am sure you are wise beyond years, honey, and I'm sure you're fantastic. But the number of times I have had a fully functioning person come in and I'm like, right, yeah, that's not you. Actually, there's no such thing as perfectionism, honey. That is fear. You're not a perfectionist. You're afraid of failure. And while you're afraid of failure, you're afraid of the stereotype of being seen as stupid as a black woman. The perfectionism is just the manifestation of that. But by all means, you know, this is session one. This is just such a plot, right? So I, I'm sure you're a self aware, I'm sure you're amazing and I'm sure you've been here before. I think that's great. But I think sometimes individuals are so used to being around, I don't know, like impulsive people or people do who don't like problem solve that they see the problem solving and critical thinking as like oh, wise beyond years where it's just like no, I'm developmentally appropriate. Like I should have been able to process this. The fact that Uncle Ray can't, that's more so concerns with Uncle Ray. But I'm where I should be.
- [36:54]
A
I.
- [36:54]
B
Should be able to do.
- [36:55]
A
Right. I totally agree. I think sometimes it's. I'm actually just functioning as I should and he's also functioning like a 16 year old. So that's why I seem so much wiser.
- [37:09]
B
Somebody check on him.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah, sometimes we, we parentify these young girls to where they feel like they have to put on, you know, these grown up airs and demeanors and act in a certain way. Not saying that's necessarily Ciara's but I also would challenge that. You know, I'm exhausted because I always know what's wrong and how to fix it. Not necessarily baby. I think the people around you have made you feel that way. But the, the, the reaching out for support, especially on campus I think is such a great idea and I love that you brought up that. So many people go to therapy and they feel like, oh my God. Nobody else is as messed up as I am. I have, I'm just the worst person. I have these extremely unique issues. I felt that same way and even years into therapy I still felt like, oh my God, I am so uniquely fucked up. Oh my God. And then I went to grad school and I realized I am textbook, I am text.
- [38:10]
B
It's the worst. When you go through your, when you go through your like, what is it? Psychopathology. And you're just like, I'm okay, so it's week one. So I'm this, it's week two. I'm also this, it's week three. Wait, I got this.
- [38:20]
A
And it's just like yeah, I, there's nothing unique about me. When you look at the things I've been through. It makes complete sense that I. It makes complete sense. That was, that blew my mind about grad school. I was like, it's the best thing. Ashley Blain. Yes. I thought I was this extremely Special in the worst ways person. And it was like, no, girl, the worst. Your life is in every little vignette in this textbook. You are textbook. I had that experience in family systems, our family system and dynamics.
- [38:59]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [39:00]
A
Every week when they talk about a different aspect of the family, I was like, well, damn.
- [39:05]
B
Well.
- [39:07]
A
All of this is me.
- [39:09]
B
Birth order and people like, listen. Birth order and generation and the person who reared you and the way that you are, the way that your issues were. Were responded to, the way that you're like pits and peaks and valleys were responded to. You could probably ask, like, three questions of individuals about how disappointment was responded to, how disagreement was responded to, and how care was given. And I feel like I could write it. I think I could make a statement plan off of that. Yeah. And I'll be like, of course you behave. That's the thing. The normalizing. Like, well, yeah, of course you behave that way. How else were you supposed to behave?
- [39:45]
A
Right?
- [39:45]
B
They didn't affirm you. They disrespected you, and now they want you to hang out. Of course you said, no, I don't want to hang out, Mom.
- [39:51]
A
And there's no repair. There's no honest conversation. You're supposed to.
- [39:55]
B
No acknowledgement, no apology. Just, oh, here's a Roblox card. And did you want food from your favorite place? What?
- [40:01]
A
And so man. Your man, do you beat me? So now your man is doing you wrong, and he buys you a watch or a bag and you like, oh, yeah, this is love. Yes.
- [40:11]
B
Because you know, and people. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Now I'm gonna get back to this. But here's the thing. There are so many individuals who are focused on finding romantic relationships when they do not have friendships in a community. And it should go the other way around, because not only is your community going to help you maintain a relationship so you're not in that person. He, she, or they space every five seconds the number of times my friends have stopped me from acting a fool saying, well, you know what? He don't load this dishwasher. I'm gonna leave him. Okay, Raquel. Yes, that's reasonable. Sure. Say it to us. Just don't say it to him because you lost your mind again. Yeah. They're like, okay, girl, yes. You've been with him for 15 years and you always talk about how you like them, but sure. The dishwasher.
- [40:53]
A
Yeah.
- [40:54]
B
And it's like, oh, I hear it now. Like, the number of times people. Community is what we need. We're not individualistic people. We're just not like, as, as individuals, African and Caribbean descent, we were forced into this world, but that's not us. And I am a person who will always state that there's no such thing as individual wellness. I don't believe in individual wellness. Right. Like, no matter what path you take when it comes to healing, whether it is activism or therapy or somatic based models, it's going to be paved with community. Think of it like a gravel road. And like, okay, you won't take this word on gravel or, you know, I notice you got some new J's on. Let me pave this with like community so you're not scuffing up your stuff like there's. There's no such thing. Right. And for Sierra to having this aspect of self awareness. Self awareness is not a barrier to treatment. It's not. It just means that your treatment needs to work and look differently. If anything, I would also say, like, honestly with the intellectualization, I would. I would lean more to. More somatic for you. But once again, not going to lose my license. It's not my. I'm not, you know, I'm not providing therapy. But we would be, honey. Somatic. I might not even. I might be like, oh, we're not talking that much today. We gotta go outside. Let's go.
- [42:00]
A
Yeah, let's go. Let's get out in this. In this world. Let's literally touch some grass, maybe.
- [42:08]
B
Let's get in our body.
- [42:09]
A
Yeah. You know, but for those, for those of us who thinking about it is not a problem at all, what you might need to do is feel about it and that's much harder. Yeah.
- [42:23]
B
Don't look at someone else. Limitation. Because that clinician clearly had a limitation. I'm gonna just say that. I don't know if I know that. Don't let their limitation make you believe that support isn't for you. Right. I want you to. When you're looking for another clinician and you deserve another clinician. Right. When you are looking for another clinician, I want you to think about. Make a list of topics you do want help for with even. Even if you know the route. Tell me like, okay, I want. I kind of want help for this, but I know, I know all what the. What the answer is. Well, let them tell you to. There's nothing wrong with me being doubly right, Sierra, because I'm sure you' sure. Okay. Write down what you need help with and let your next therapist see where the work continues. Like, and even share that like share this experience. Because anyone who's had a negative experience with a clinician, when you go to your next clinician, share that with them.
- [43:13]
A
Yes.
- [43:14]
B
Let them know what happened previously. Because if you're feel, if you're seeming guarded and stuff like that, because what we're doing is coming up with a plan. It's important for them to know things that can be contributing to, to it. As a clinician, anyone who's come into me and they stated that they had a difficult time with a previous clinician, I make sure that I check in even more about like okay, so does this feel comfortable? I'm going to do that either way. But it's just, it's just simply good to know. So you can say like oh, I'm insightful. I need support processing and applying and sustaining. Because you meant, you mentioned a maintenance issue. I need help with that and just bring that into session. Right. Like just be able to understand that you deserve therapy. So many people hurl. You need therapy at individuals like it's an insult. But we all deserve a space where we have somebody else on our team that I, I mean it when I say my children will have psychologists because there's a limit to what I'm do as a mama. Ma' am psychologist. Help me please. Because I feel like I'm losing it. Like please help me. You need, you deserve somebody else on your team. You just deserve that. So I get somebody else on your team. Investigate. I know with it's being 17. I don't know about insurance. You should be who knows laws wise but covered up until 26. But if you're not, I would also look at some foundations that provide therapy vouchers. Like I'm on the board of Love Lane Foundation. Absolutely adore them. Like get on the wait list for that. But even looking at support groups because they're also notoriously less expensive. Right. A support group may cost like maybe 20 to 30 a session versus therapy costing like I don't know if you're in New York, but New York is wild. So like 150, it's, it's one plus. Yeah, it's, it's crazy.
- [44:49]
A
And I'm just like okay, I had a professor who charged 450 for a session.
- [44:54]
B
450 and probably never, probably never had an opening. Probably still had a waitlist and stay booked. Yeah, it's wild.
- [45:02]
A
So you're taking a pay cut to come teach this class? Really? You, this is your charity?
- [45:06]
B
Listen, Crystal, listen, listen Crystal. All of your professors taking a Pay court. All of your professors are volunteering. Okay. I remember I was in an academia meeting, and they said, you know, more volunteer service for something on campus. And I said, we all get paid the same, right? I volunteer.
- [45:23]
A
Every time I come is me volunteering.
- [45:26]
B
This is volunteering. Y' all lucky. I love. I'm at hbcu. I love them. Students down. They read me fulfilled. I love everything about them. But I'm like, the minute y' all leave, I'm out. And then I get a new cohort, and I'm like, well, I can't leave you. You make me laugh.
- [45:41]
A
You love the kids.
- [45:42]
B
I love them so much. I really do. There's everything so dramatic that I'm like, oh, my goodness.
- [45:47]
A
I loved working with Gen Z. They are so funny.
- [45:51]
B
They're my fave.
- [45:53]
A
I would say something in session, and a client would be like, oh, girl, you ate that.
- [45:59]
B
The first time I was doing Psychic the Black Experience, and they were like, four plus four. And I'm like, what, eight? Oh, thank you. Focus, though, because we have 20 minutes left. You know, like. And I'm just like, I love them. Gen Z and Angry Teens. I've always loved Angry Teens because I've just always just been like, yeah.
- [46:18]
A
I also worked with a couple of teenagers during my internship. Do you think this therapist should have had a conversation with Ciara about, I feel like I've taken you as far as I can and I need to reach somebody else? Or like, yeah, through her mother just seems so impersonal. Like, you worked with this girl for three years and didn't have a conversation with her?
- [46:39]
B
No. It's super inappropriate. I've had to delay care or transfer care for two pregnancies. And we started planning for that, I think, like, 12 weeks beforehand. Right. I've even talked to my clients about the fact that I know, like, her graduating and being able to go to booster sessions and stuff like that. But we introduced it when I was leaning towards. When I was just like, how many times you want to come in here talking about your coffee with a girl? What the freak You. We got. We got, like, we. I said, next session, we're gonna have to talk about the possibility of switching out. Right. And I wonder what happened there. I wonder if the mom felt. Because it's not just the fact that there are two things at play here. It's not just the fact that they ended abruptly. It's the fact that the mom was dishonest about how they ended abruptly. And there's so many times where people, when they think about being dishonest and where that comes from. But so many times people are thinking, some people lie, just think a lie, it's just fun for them. But I wouldn't see that from appearance. Some people also feel as though they have concerns about that person being able to hold the truth right. When I'm ever, I'm always direct with individuals. I think clarity is kindness and it's because I trust our relationship to handle conflict. Right? Like the issue isn't conflict or disagreements, it's poor conflict resolution. So I also wonder if the mom also felt as though the daughter could not handle it. But if you feel as though the daughter cannot handle it, that's not the, that's not the justification for being dishonest. If anything, that's the justification for maybe taking two or three sessions and easing out. Right. Like when I was an extern and when we're training, you know, we're, we're seeing, we're switching sites every single year. The typical sites ended in June. We started about, we started talking about transitioning out in March and because they were seeing us as students, we even talked to them in intake about, hey, no matter what, I'm going to be out at this point because I switched the site because that, so that was actually inappropriate in the first place. They should have had like a couple of sessions to talk about that because then she also feels abandoned. And also I also see the, the reasoning behind the person, the clinician, staying that as a limitation of their other, their clinical education, them being too aware. I don't think that's accurate. Maybe you reached the ceiling of which you could help them, but that's just because you probably reached the ceiling of your training. And once again, not the best. That was wild. You have to say goodbye.
- [48:53]
A
Some people can't admit though, that they've gone as far as they can with this client because of their limitations, not because there's something going on with the client, but because as a clinician, I, I'm not trained, I don't have the education, etc to help you any further. I think maybe sometimes ego gets involved and, and that keeps people from being honest with their clients about that. But I had the same experience. Like I graduated in early June and I started having the conversation about termination with my clients in March. And I brought it up once a month until May. And then at the end of every session in May, I would say, okay, we have three weeks left, two weeks left, et cetera, Just, just to make sure, like, we're leaving, of course, I. I'm happy to refer you to somebody else here at the clinic. I'm happy to, whatever you need. But I am graduating. I will no longer be your therapist. Like just being very clear about that. So that all of a sudden, you know, I'm not telling you in our last session, oh yeah, I'm graduating. Peace. You don't have a therapist? No, more like, it's just a horrible way to treat clients. And I think it goes against like the ethical code and all this. It just seems so wrong to treat a client that way.
- [49:59]
B
I mean, listen, two out of two things have gone out. Two out of two letters against the ethical code. You know what I'm saying? So, like.
- [50:10]
A
We got another. We better be three for three, because this next letter comes from Hakeem. Hakeem says, hey, crystal, I'm a 38 year old man and I've been debating on whether I want to send this because honestly, I feel stupid and I blame myself for this situation. I've always been an advocate for mental health and finding a form of therapy and therapist that works for you. I've tried therapy on three separate occasions and overall I've had great experiences. The first was years ago, but we parted ways once she graduated and moved to another state to practice. The second is what I'm writing you about. I started seeing an amazing clinician six years ago and outside of the occasional scheduled conflict, I never missed a session. I could truly see the impact therapy was having in my life and I felt great about the overall progress I was making. Earlier this year, my therapy journey came to a halt in an unexpected way. My then therapist suggested hooking me up with another client because we were both single and dating hasn't been easy for a workaholic like myself. So I decided to go for it and try something new. Normally, I wouldn't be open to allowing somebody to hook me up, but an endorsement by my therapist is pretty impressive and I had no reason not to trust it. If it weren't for this recommendation, I probably wouldn't have given this woman the time of day on my own. My therapist insisted she was a good catch and worth the while. Although she was attractive, she simply didn't meet the requirements that I'm looking for when I think of a suitable partner. However, I did understand why our therapist thought this was a good idea. She would be a catch to someone with different standards and expectations. I'm a single father and she's a single mother. We both like the outdoors and fine dining, so I tried to keep an Open mind. On the other hand, I have one child while she has seven. No judgment, but I don't desire that many children, and my therapist knew that. Needless to say, this setup didn't work out, and it ended when this chick scammed me. I later found out she has a record of this type of behavior. She called me crying and gave me a sob story about her kids, and I fell for the okie doke like a joke. When I tried to share about this experience in session, my therapist suggested that I might have been trying to trick off on Shawty and come off as a big timer, neither of which was true nor excuses her behavior. I felt dismissed and gaslit by my own therapist, and it broke the trust I had for our process. I was left holding the weight of the responsibility for this experience that I didn't ask to be a part of. Now I'm at a crossroads on whether I should just return to my previous therapist or charge it to the game and accept that Shawty not only scammed me out of money, but made off like a thief in the night with my therapist in tow. Now the day goes by that I don't consider going back to my old therapist, because I really do miss having that outlet. I've tried other therapists, but no one seems like the right fit. They get defensive as soon as I share about this experience, and some have even denied that it happened because of how outrageous it sounds. Would love to hear your thoughts from a professional standpoint. Thanks, Hakeem. I told you three for three.
- [53:19]
B
Okay. When I. Okay, so first of all, first of all, first of all, first, start with the steps for reporting a clinician, because I just want to start there because, like, so Hakeem had mentioned like. Like, thinking it sounds like he's kind of saying gray area. This is. This is not a gray area. This is like a clear breach of ethical standards in the first place. Like, you are. We are not allowed to do anything like that. So this isn't like. This is insane. This is a. This is a clear breach of standards. This isn't like, oh, am I overreacting? No. Oh, right. So, like, one, you start with identifying their license. Okay. You identify their license.
- [54:01]
A
That should be on that paperwork they gave you.
- [54:04]
B
It should be. Right. So are they a social worker? That's a certain licensing board. Are they a psychologist? That's a certain license. Counselor, marriage and family therapist, Psychiatrist. That's it. So, like, you get their license number, but their actual license is the kind of clinician they are. Okay.
- [54:18]
A
Yeah.
- [54:19]
B
You look up their state licensing board. Right. So for me, Dr. Raquel Martin. My name is Dr. Raquel Martin. You would just look up. I am licensed in 40 places, but you can look up Tennessee Psychologist Licensing board. You could easily find me, right? Then you file a written complaint. Now, here's my thing, Hakeem, because I'm be very specific. I want everybody to listen. I don't care if your name is Hakeem. I don't care. Just write this down because, oh, my God. And I mean, I'm sitting here. So. Yes. So file a written complaint. A lot of states have an online version, but even if you do the online version, go ahead and screenshot that and save that for the future, because sometimes they leave, lose it. You know, include dates.
- [54:56]
A
Yes.
- [54:56]
B
Include what happened, any supporting documents, any messages, and even talk about the kind of violation. You don't have to have clinical language because the person reading it will be able to identify whether it's like that one session. I mean, she talked to the mom, but if she hadn't talked to the mom and she just dipped, Sierra would. The issue would have been abandonment.
- [55:15]
A
Right.
- [55:16]
B
This one is like a. It's best. Not only it's like a dual relationship in a certain extent, but it's also, like, misunderstood conduct. There's also, like, breaches and treatment planning and stuff like that. I will say if there's something that's such as big as, like, safety, I would file immediately, but also request confirmation that, like, they received it and seek support. Like, you can seek support when the investigation is happening, but, like, this is a clear ethical breach. This will be like, if I had a client and they talked to me about, like, a certain business and I stated that I wanted to invest in their business. I can't do that. I have my psychologist. I love my psychologist. When I first met her, I was like, man, do I need a mentor or psychologist? Because I also. Girl, could you just talk to me about my classes? And we basically talked about, which one do you need more? I needed a psychologist more. If we. If I ever graduate from therapy, I'm gonna wait two years and then ask her to brunch. Because when I. You think. You think you hurting. I love my psychologist. I literally want to know her favorite drink order.
- [56:15]
A
Okay?
- [56:15]
B
And I'll never know. I'll never know. Okay?
- [56:19]
A
I'm hurting, too. All right. God, I love mine, too. I get this. I don't know nothing about that lady, man.
- [56:27]
B
When we were. When I was doing well, really, really good and didn't need booster sessions, And I'm like, man, I wonder how she doing.
- [56:33]
A
Yeah, that's so real.
- [56:35]
B
Not enough to pay $150. But I did. I did wonder when it comes down that so one that is a clear breach of ethical standards, like, we are prohibited. It's not a gray area. It's just not a gray area. And it's not like a therapist did this.
- [56:49]
A
This is.
- [56:49]
B
I can't either. It's not. It's not a great area.
- [56:52]
A
Day one type of stuff, too. You don't have to get licensed and pass the exam to notice. This is day one Grass.
- [56:58]
B
And this is. This is why there are so many times where I think people want to pit clinicians against each other. And it's one of the reasons why I often state, like, therapists can cause harm just as, like. Just like coaches can cause help. Like, you know, like both of them. It's. It's. It's the fact of humanity. Right? But the thing about it is, like, we definitely have more people to answer to. And you have to think about the, like, the. The, like. Like, even with his words of what he stated, oh, having a recommendation from my clinician was such a big thing. That is why it's so important to think about this license. You. You learn more about you. You were vulnerable, you were trusting. This is someone you have worked with. So there. What we state holds more weight. Like, that's just what it is. And then they. They involved you in something that shouldn't have occurred in the first place. When you're like, I'm wondering if I should go back. No.
- [57:50]
A
Hell, no.
- [57:51]
B
Absolutely not, Hakeem. No. I would be so. Hakeem, I don't want to be disappointed in you. I don't know you. Don't do it, Hakeem.
- [57:59]
A
Don't do it, please.
- [58:01]
B
She doesn't deserve it, and she going to miss. She gonna mess something else up. No, Hakeem, absolutely not. I don't want. I very rarely speak in absolutes. The only thing. Absolutely. You know, any. Only thing that's always wrong is racism. But this. Hakeem just gonna go up there with racism is always wrong. Don't go back to her. Don't.
- [58:20]
A
She has no version. Trying to hook up two of her clients.
- [58:23]
B
That is hooking up two of her clients. Irresponsible. And you're not even going to trust her, Hakeem. You're not gonna trust a word she says, and you're not going to trust anything she says. So now you just pay.
- [58:33]
A
You're paying for m. Alliance yeah, she's ruined it.
- [58:36]
B
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I, I'm so glad your hesitation is understandable. Like, I, I, she's already crossed the line when you, I, I think you need to interview new therapists in the first place. I think you also need to just be honest about the harm that was caused. Like, your therapist, like, broke a rule, right? You didn't break anything. Like, you, it's just, you're going to be rebuilding the trust. I think it's understandable to realize you are going to be rebuilding the trust. I'm so glad that your commitment to therapy is still intact. I'm so glad that you still believe in the process that you're willing to see someone else, because so many people don't. You are not the problem here at all. That is, that is wholly terrible. And then even the people who didn't believe, I mean, what are they, relatives? You can't put. I had someone who came into me and said that my per, that they were transferred to me and their clinician had said they focus on racism too much and that's the cause of their depression. Not the racist, not the racism they're experiencing. But if they focused on it too.
- [59:33]
A
Much, but paying attention to it and acknowledging it, this, I, I wonder how many people got this degree and actually ended up practicing. Like, how did y' all even get this far?
- [59:46]
B
I listen and I told you, like, I feel, you know, I always feel, I feel, you know, we're always learning. So I feel good as a clinician. But today, yeah, oh, you real phenomenal. I mean, I know this was not the goal, but confidence boosted.
- [60:00]
A
Oh, my goodness. You said, oh, I'm knocking it out the park, honey.
- [60:05]
B
The number of times I, I clocked in, I think it was like, it was one to two. I think it was a minute, 30 seconds. But I wound up two minutes late to session last week with my client and I was like, I am so sorry. And, and they were like, rein it in, we're fine.
- [60:18]
A
I'm like, girl, what?
- [60:20]
B
And they just look at me like, Dr. Martin's weird. But anyway, because it's just like, it's so real though. It's so inappropriate. No, try, maybe trying short term therapy. I also for everyone on, I have a finding a therapist guide on my website. Free mental health guide. It's more so for like consultations and Chris, I don't know if you cover consultations, but like, consultations are like sessions where it's like 15 to 20 minutes. You call the therapist. It's free. And you kind of are learning more about them before you decide to, like, invest with them. You should ask questions. I always state that we're going to be learning about how you feel. You need to learn about how we think. And I think consultation sessions are really, really, really helpful, because if you're in a session for 20 minutes and it feels like paint is drying, I mean, that's a really big sign that the alliance, the therapeutic alliance isn't there. But if you get to the end of the 20 minutes and you're like, man, I could talk you all day. Ding, ding, ding.
- [61:17]
A
Good sign. Let's. Let's come in for a first session.
- [61:19]
B
And let's come in for a first session. I like it. Yes. Because I want you to understand you have autonomy in your clinician. Like, I don't want you to think, like, you should be interviewing me.
- [61:28]
A
Yes.
- [61:31]
B
Oh, my gosh. Hakeem, please don't. Hakeem, don't do it. Reconsider. You.
- [61:37]
A
You really. You really deserve better than this. I'm. I was a astonished when I read this email, Dr. Martin. I could not believe it. I said, oh, we really got a problem on our hands. If clinicians. You are not playing the dating game here, girl. Why would you even.
- [61:53]
B
Who.
- [61:54]
A
I wonder whose confidentiality you broke first like this.
- [61:57]
B
Oh, my gosh. Because let me tell you something. First of all, first of all, first of all, if the girl wasn't a scammer, both of y' all need to be reporting now. If you can't get your money back, I'm so sorry. And this was an expensive. This was an expensive lesson to learn. But you. I bet you'll never. Just. Just don't waste the mistake. Anytime my client, they'll be like, oh, I made this mistake. Just don't waste it. Don't waste it. It was a mistake. Don't waste it. Let's learn from this. Don't ever give. No. Don't you give nobody your money unless they. Your wife. Just chill. You know what I'm saying? Like, but, like, both of the confidence, like, Crystal, both of them. Like, this is a dual. This is like, a very big concern. And this is why when people are like, there'll be stuff online, and they'll just be like, oh, make sure you see a license. Professional. It's not just the fact that they're licensed. Licensed, right. It's people can. Everyone can cause harm. Everyone can cause harm. And this is one of the times where I'll see clinicians and be. And they'll be like, oh, well, my person isn't making progress. They're using the wrong treatment modality. Or my. You know, they're not. They're stuck on something. You're not doing what you're supposed to be doing as a clinician. This is insane. So don't Also anybody listen to this. I don't want you to use this as, like, everybody is like this, because they're not. I'm a licensed mental professional, too. But I also want people. When you're thinking about, like, it's such a. It's such a light thing to just go seek therapy. There are so many things that go into why people are hesitant. Like, stuff like this happens. There's a fear. There are people who aren't looking, who don't specialize in what you're dealing with. Like, this is. And I would also say maybe see if you can find people who specialize in treating black men in particular, because this is just awful. I hate that this happened to you. Like, this is. This is awful. Like, this was a clear breach. Don't you dare go back. You deserve. You are so much better than this.
- [63:35]
A
Right?
- [63:35]
B
This person is not my peer.
- [63:37]
A
Turn you off from therapy forever. Right?
- [63:39]
B
That's amazing.
- [63:40]
A
That's. A lot of people would have been like, oh, fuck therapy. This is what y' all doing. Fuck that, and fuck you. Or less or less.
- [63:49]
B
Like, for what? This is what I'm telling you.
- [63:53]
A
I took it so seriously, Dr. Martin. I mean every word they said to me. And I think that part of that is because I do have such a great therapist who I've never had to worry about confidentiality or anything else throughout the almost nine years we've worked together. So, you know, going in and learning things from, you know, the clinician side, it was like, you are in a position of power. You can, in some cases, have people institutionalized. Therapists literally have legal power over their clients in some situations. So it is so important to take that power seriously. It is not a game. It's not something to play with. And people do take. If my. My therapist doesn't give advice, she doesn't do recommendations and stuff like this, which. Because this would be great. This would be really just.
- [64:42]
B
I wish sometimes I want to be like, doc, just for today would be.
- [64:47]
A
Better at it than me.
- [64:48]
B
Just tell me what to do, bro. Like, I understand you want me to delve into it, but I want to be like, yo, we've been working together for a minute. Just today. Please just tell me what to do. I don't want to process shit. Just tell me what to do, Doc. And they don't do it.
- [65:02]
A
I'm like, just write it down, girl. Just tell me. What if I just write down the.
- [65:06]
B
Steps one time, please? I'm so tired of doing it.
- [65:11]
A
You have to figure it out for yourself. And guiding you through that is the job of therapy. But, yes, this is why therapists have to be so careful about what they say, because your words do carry more weight than some other random person. This is the person you're trust with your healing to help you get to this place of better mental health. So, yes, her words carry more weight than the average person. And this was so this was inappropriate from top to bottom. I every line. Please heed her advice about reporting this person. Please do.
- [65:45]
B
Because it's also the harm that they can cause for someone else. Anytime I do a bunch of posts online about, like, what therapy is and what it isn't. And a lot of times people think being a clinician is like folk wisdom. They're like, oh, I could be. I could. I give such good advice. I can be a therapist. And I'm just like, dang, those apples, the tennis rackets, honey, they got nothing to do. What does that have to do with this? Like, you know, like, we take it really serious. I'm not only, I think when you're talking to an individual person and you're getting the benefit of, like, their individual experience, but, like, for just my training, I'm a psychologist. One bachelor's, two masters, a PhD internship and postdoc started. I mean, for postdoc, I think I had to have 2000 clinical hours. For internship, I think I had to have two. And then from the time from my second master's to my doctorate, I think it was a couple thousand two. And that's all before I'm licensed. So I'm not pulling from just one individual person. I'm pulling from all the classes that I took, all the clients that I wrote, all the case conceptualizations. You coming into session for 50, 50 minutes is honestly the smallest part of your care. I'm writing the notes. I'm doing case conceptualization, which talks about, like, the things that came together to come up with the treatment plan. We're going over the treatment plan.
- [67:00]
A
Right. And so much a case conceptualization. You can hand that to another therapist. They read it, and they have a very clear picture of this.
- [67:07]
B
Yes.
- [67:08]
A
Client and what they've gone through and what's been attempted and all that. Yeah.
- [67:12]
B
Because it's Supposed to be continuity of care. The 50 minutes. Honestly, the 50 minutes I get to sit with you, that's the vacation. Finally.
- [67:21]
A
Actually talking to clients is the easy part of being a therapist, and there's no advice involved. This is an advice show. This is not therapy. Therapy.
- [67:30]
B
I'm over here. What is it? Team type too fast? Yes.
- [67:35]
A
Shout out to my sister. Yes.
- [67:37]
B
Yes, Shout out to the doc. Like, what?
- [67:39]
A
I'm over here. Shout out to the document.
- [67:43]
B
I just don't think people understand it. Like, people need to take it way more seriously, and it's because people like you, like, when you went through this program, we're taking it really seriously. Like, this is what I dedicated my life to. I genuinely think I was put on earth to help reframe black health and well being. So I'll be darned if I'm gonna come in here and be trash the way the world has been trash to you. No, I can't. I can't reinforce that. No, I just can't.
- [68:06]
A
No, I can. I can be your therapist and have appropriate boundaries with you, encourage you when necessary, provide some feedback or redirection or, you know, just a little. You said this, but I'm also hearing this. You know, I can do all that and still not harm you. The way the world has not come down, make you feel like you're trash or bad or wrong for having whatever feelings you have. Like, it's a delicate dance that therapists do. I have so much respect for it after finishing this degree. So definitely. Hakeem, please heed that advice about reporting this person. And good luck to you in finding another therapist. But no, don't go back to this person. No. All right, so our last question is not quite as messy. This one's from Andrew.
- [68:58]
B
I've been enjoying the messy, though. I ain't gonna lie to you. I'm a.
- [69:01]
A
You like dragging these horrible therapists, but I.
- [69:05]
B
You know what? I like dragging people in general. So this is just a specific, you know, like, okay, just.
- [69:13]
A
I.
- [69:13]
B
It's so funny anytime people are talking about, like, oh, talking to me like, oh, you're a therapist. I would expect you to, you know, provide more care. Is this session? It's a session. Did you. Did I give you an invoice?
- [69:25]
A
Thank you.
- [69:26]
B
You would know you in therapy with me because I didn't give you an invoice. No, no, no, no, no. If anything, the more any clinician I'm around, like, any therapist, our actual threshold for is actually way lower than the average person. Because if we. We have to walk people through, like, the depths of their soul and their terrible encounters. So what? We're not gonna. It's just like. No, that's actually. Oh, it's a boundary. That's actually not a boundary. It's a rule. And you control your own self. So I'm saying no.
- [69:49]
A
Right?
- [69:49]
B
It's gonna be a no.
- [69:50]
A
Yeah.
- [69:51]
B
No, we typically have a way better threshold. People just get to walk around being jerks under the guise of all these other things. I joke about. Like, my. My default setting being to mean. But I'll be real with you. Like, where I'm from and like, the way Philly, you got to be like, quick with it and quick witted. We, like, attack each other for fun. So, like, I have to reframe. Like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have ego driven reactivity here. Hey, maybe I shouldn't have a negative attribution bias and jump down their throat simply because they have a question. Hey, maybe the issue isn't like, conflict. It's the poor conflict resolution. If I have to do the work as a human being, everyone is able to do the work. And it's one thing if you don't have access to the information, but for the people who do, and I can confirm that you do, I'm gonna cuss you out. I'm so serious.
- [70:39]
A
Somebody said to me on TikTok, I would think getting a master's degree in mental health counseling would make you talk nicer about people. And I said, well, go get one and we'll see how you act. Because it worked. Yes. What? It actually did. Yes, I do have a lot more empathy for people in the situations they're in. But it also made me much angrier at those who deliberately commit harm and go on about their lives like, that don't mean nothing if I have a much shorter fuse for people on that bullshit. No, it's real, though.
- [71:11]
B
Like, for real. Like, I. The number of times I just be like, all right now, all right, I've reached my. Don't. I have no issue. Like, it doesn't. Because you do get a level anger, and I think anger gets a bad rap. Anger has fueled some of my most productive programs of support because of who I'm angry with. But like, no, when you're just like, something as simple as, oh, it's not that serious to tell a little boy not to cry. Well, that's where you're wrong. You.
- [71:36]
A
Yeah. Yes, it is indeed.
- [71:41]
B
I don't apologize to children. Oh, oh, oh, get the freak up out my house because what we're not gonna do like my certain things. I'll be like, get out. It's a snowstorm. I don't care because you're not about to suffer the safety of this space for my babies. You gotta go.
- [71:56]
A
Yeah, get out. Exactly that. It escalates so quickly for children being mistreated and I mean extremely low. Please don't play with me.
- [72:05]
B
Oh my God.
- [72:06]
A
It's like. Okay, let's get to this last letter. It's from Andrew who says hi. Crystal is gifting therapy to loved ones rude. Specifically your partner.
- [72:19]
B
Oh, Andrew.
- [72:20]
A
My 31 year old boyfriend of four years has lived a traumatic life. He lost his father unexpectedly in his 20s, had a rough upbringing with his mom and is now working as a teacher. Overall, he had a challenging family dynamic and has been coping with alcohol almost daily. I've suggested therapy countless times and I always get met with you need to see the lady too. Which is true, but I'm leaps and bounds more emotionally available and aware than he is. I've also bit the bullet and set up my first therapy appointment while he has not. We're both two black gay men, so I thought taking the initiative to do what's not common in our community would be a good thing. Arguments and even innocent conversations that turn hostile between us expose that there's definitely something wrong with him upstairs. He's constantly irritated, has mood swings and is always deflecting in our conversations. I'm no professional, but knowing what I know and seeing what I see, either we need to break up or this nigga needs a couch quickly. This kind of behavior isn't going to fly with me too much longer. And I know that seeing a qualified mental health professional would be beneficial. So would it be rude if I paid for a few sessions with an online therapist just to open the door? Like I said earlier, he's a teacher with amazing benefits. So I'm not paying for the entire thing, but would a push off of the porch help or hurt? I have family and friends I'd like to gift sessions to also. But would that be considered rude even though it's coming from a place of love and genuine care? I just want to see them all grow. And I know they have to want it for themselves in order for therapy to be effective, but damn, some of them need it like yesterday. Thanks for your help, Andrew.
- [74:01]
B
Andrew, you got all this money I need you to con. I need you to donate to some community funds because you just get like you you trying to give money to people who don't need it. Everybody baby. Look for some community reserves that you. Because a lot of people are unhoused you so like one he said I don't know if he needs a couch or we need to break up. Andrew. It might be both. I'll be real with you, honey. It's funny because I mentioned earlier about like people will say you need therapy like a weapon, like you need therapy. But I 1 if the issue is financial, which you you kind of state that it's not because they have really good insurance. If the issue is financial, I'm sure that it would be fantastic to provide care of like the, the therapy as a gift. But like it's not a gift you offer without consent. Yeah, right. And some of the things that you mentioned one, it sounds like he's going through some really tough things. Of course. And it would definitely benefit from therapy in a certain extent. But the way that you described it, like the way you word it, it doesn't seem like you're saying you deserve therapy. It seems, it seems like you're kind of providing it in this realm of like you need therapy. And there's shame involved in that even in the comparison of like oh yeah, it's not wrong with you. First of all, there's something wrong with all of us. Okay?
- [75:16]
A
Every last all of us. We are human.
- [75:19]
B
We are human. So like that's why I say the whole you deserve it, but I don't want you to. The way you frame it even just coming from you to me, I would see. I would think that you're using therapy as a punishment, not as a tool. And therapy isn't a punishment. The same way we what's this, Sierra? Who who said that they are really self aware and like therapy, you don't just get therapy as a gift for being confused. Like therapy is a tool. Right? So one don't stop spending this money on these people when you know there are plenty of you. You can volunteer and give other programs cash. Loveland has a therapy you over here paying everybody. Can I have a dollar? You know what I'm saying? Like golly. But I would think about it as talking about it in that way in terms of like I, I1 this is how we. I might think about it if you want to frame it in a, in a different way and honestly, before you frame it with him, it seems like you also need to talk to your therapist a little bit because the way that you're coming at it isn't. It's just, it's simply not helpful.
- [76:17]
A
That's Just what started them sessions yet.
- [76:19]
B
Yeah, the way you're framing it is not helpful. And it would definitely cause someone to put up a wall. I would too, you know, so, like, I think that's understandable, normalizing that experience. But you can start with, like, bringing in the conversation. Conversation of like, like how much you care about this person and because you care about them, what you've noticed and not what you notice in terms of shame, what you notice in terms of, like, hey, I think sometimes it seems like you deserve greater help and greater support. And I know from our conversations and, or arguments that I can't always provide you with the care and the, and the directive and the way that you deserve. I can't. And I'm gonna work on that too. I would love it if we can both work on ways to support each other better because I love you and I care about you so much. And I think we. You deserve better than the care that you're getting, even from me, because even the way I've approached this with you has been inappropriate, point blank, period. And I, I apologize for that. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I, I. If you want to provide the choices, you can mention something as, like, I found some therapist. Do you want me to send them? But a choice and a directive are not the same thing right now. It's like you're, you're saying, like, this is, you know, either be with me or leave me. First of all, ultimatum, you know, like, like, you know, like, that's, that's, it's super inappropriate.
- [77:32]
A
I love that.
- [77:33]
B
That's why when you mentioned, like, oh, you know, leave me or go to therapy, it might need to be both because it's just like, this is, you know, like, so I want you to come at it from a different way. And also, yeah, you can send them to the therapist, but it might also be easier for you to just be like, here are some ways I found individuals, because I also think finding a therapist is something they likely want to do alone. Now, you may find that when you have this conversation, conversation with them, and you're coming from care and not shame, when you're coming from understanding and not I do better than you, they may be more open, but I don't want you to think about it solely as, like, they're not open just because, you know, this is who they are. I think they're also not open just because of the way you're phrasing it. And I think that the way you're doing it is also not helpful. And that doesn't mean it's your intention. You love someone, you love them and you want them to get care the way that they deserve. But this comparison of, oh, I already made my appointment. So, so what, what that mean for you?
- [78:25]
A
And you can't somebody else into their journey.
- [78:30]
B
We need to take a little bit step back, okay? You got too much money and a little bit too much time to be shaming somebody. Stop it.
- [78:37]
A
Yeah, you're right. These donations can are better served somewhere else if you just want to. There are so many community funds, so.
- [78:45]
B
Many people on GoFundMe saying they can't find, they, they can't pay their rent. There's so many food shelters where you could, you could go to Costco, get a thing of canned goods and take them to your, your nearest thing. It's winter. People need hats and coats.
- [78:57]
A
Andrew, do some angel trees, help out some kids this Christmas. Andrew. No, his heart, I, I, his heart is in the right place. But this is how this is. When we say that intent does not negate impact, this is exactly what we're talking about. You have good intentions, you want your boyfriend, you'll get better. You want the these family members to feel better. But this you. Every time we get into an argument, I could tell it's something wrong with you because you got this and this and this. All of that may be true. And coming at somebody with this sort of. I got a checklist of all the ways you are messed up and this is why you need to call the lady.com. that is why people say, oh, you know what? Actually I'm not even interested in therapy because how you going to come at me crazy when you also are a mess or you also have your own problems? Like it's all about approach when you're genuinely trying to help people.
- [79:55]
B
Yep. So it's always about approach people. You know, intent and impact aren't comparable. They're both important. But it's kind of just like the way I always tell my students and my like clients is like if I stepped on your foot accidentally, I didn't intend to, but I still hurt you. Right. And the difference between intent and impact are so important because intent is an individual thing. Like you have to figure out why you walking around stepping on people's sneaks, what you're not looking. But impact is a us thing. Intent is a you thing. Impact is us thing. We have to deal with the harm of the fact that you just stepped on my sneak. So we clearly going to a store, right? Yeah. I know you didn't mean to, but I' ma still need you to tap that.
- [80:31]
A
And So I need 100.
- [80:33]
B
It's not the same thing. I'm gonna need it. And I also would say, I don't know if your partner is black, but just the aspect of, yeah, they are too black. So two. Two black gay men. In a world that, like, will definitely pathologize you, it adds so many layers of fear and vulnerability and stigma that, like, it's just so difficult. Shame and guilt have never propelled anyone into consistent or healthy healing. And I think you need to understand that, like, never people will be like, oh, I was shamed. Okay, to doing this. And when did you doing that run out? When did you decide that you were no longer going to do that? Right. You can't be a horrible person now.
- [81:10]
A
Like, you're mean now. Yes, your behavior changed, but you're not a nice person. You judge other people. You're talking about, well, ain't that.
- [81:20]
B
They.
- [81:20]
A
They shamed me, and now I turned out great. No, you didn't. You're not nice.
- [81:25]
B
Listen, listen. The number of times the. One of the biggest things that will give me massive unfollows online is when I say I don't hit children. I don't believe in it. I gotta unfollow this.
- [81:35]
A
That would be controversial.
- [81:36]
B
Dr. Martin lost her mind. That's when I get the most. Like, it is when people are gonna be like, oh, this heifer nut.
- [81:42]
A
What?
- [81:42]
B
I don't hit children.
- [81:44]
A
Yeah. What? That happened with my cousin. My cousin was like, I'm not whooping my kids. And my uncle was like, the hell?
- [81:51]
B
Yep.
- [81:52]
A
Cause she's not gonna hit her kids. But my cousin also has a master's degree in early childhood development education. All this, so she has a much better understanding of, like, the impact of beating children. And so I applauded her for that and still do. But definitely some older members of the family were like, you need to. I don't know what's wrong with you. You need to beat them kids. No, she don't. They're children. They're learning.
- [82:17]
B
Somebody need to beat you. Listen, I always say. Listen, I always say, I do not hit children. It ain't never gonna happen. But when my boys, when they turn like, 30, 35, they might need to square up because I, you know, you a child, but you now, you hit 35, I might be like, hey, remember when you was 10 and I had.
- [82:39]
A
To go, 25 more years and I'm gonna see you outside.
- [82:42]
B
I'm Gonna knock you out. Remember that.
- [82:48]
A
When they good and Grown. Good and grown.
- [82:50]
B
35.
- [82:51]
A
35. I'll be like, yes.
- [82:53]
B
I'm like, listen, listen, listen.
- [82:55]
A
I've been waiting for this. Y' all tried the hell out of me.
- [82:59]
B
I'm over here crying in a pantry. Breathing and grievances.
- [83:08]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [83:09]
B
Now, Andrew, I definitely think, you know, reframing the way you're coming at it, like think about choices and in the first place, but like the, the shame and the guilt portion of it, you know, the same way that people need to think about, like what you need is like an emotionally safe space to grow when it comes to relationships, romantic and friendships and stuff like that. And guilt and shame can never be a part of that, right? Like emotional harm or physical harm or spiritual harm. Like you. What you're doing when you. You're guilting them is you're severing the safety of a space for them to even come back to, right? And you already have concerns because you're talking about the fact that they're utilizing more substances and stuff like that. The use of the substances is. Is really a way for them to cope. Right. As a, as a psychologist, I always say that there's no such thing as dysfunctional behavior. Every single behavior has a function, right? So they're utilizing the. The coping skills is like numbing, right? And it's interesting to. Because a lot of times people will talk about the stress response of fight or flight, but they also need to think about like freeze. And freeze is like a numbing behavior. Anything that takes you out of reality. And men are actually more likely to exhibit freeze responses as a result of stressors. And one of the freeze responses are increased risky behaviors such as substance use, increased video game use, increased anything that takes them out of reality, right? So you're. What you're partner is exhibiting is that even though they're supposed to have you as a protective factor, like you're in their community of support, they're still not getting that level of support for you. And that's understandable. Like, they do need an additional person. But I also want you to think about the same way you will likely talk about your romantic relationship and your therapy. I want you to think about how your behavior is contributing to their substance use.
- [84:52]
A
Which like that, you just wrapped it all up and put a cute on it. Like, Andrew, since you're giving out gifts this holiday season, give one to yourself. First of, let me chill out and focus on myself and not come at the people I love with this judgmental. Energy because it is counterproductive, truly.
- [85:12]
B
Yes. More people need to think about. When you're engaging with individuals, we need to think about environments is like, safe space. But don't think about it as a physical space. Think about, like, you need to be the safe space for your person. Right? Think about if is what I'm doing severing the safety of this environment with this person and as a result, making it that much harder for them to weather the difficult things that they're dealing with in the first place. Right? Like, is what I'm doing contributing to, like, building them up or tearing them down? Because a lot of times people will talk about safe space, but you can be a safe space for negative things as well. Right. People who come out here and spout racist jokes, you're a safe space for racism. Right. People who are out here and not advocating for individuals, you're a safe space for silence. Don't just think about, like, oh, I'm a safe space for talking, but why would I know that? Why would I know you're a safe space? What have you done to exhibit. I can tell you all the things that you've done to exhibit that you're a safe space for harm. Cannot tell you the things that show that you're a safe space for care. Like, what are we doing? And you have to think about going forward with your. With this, with your partner. You are going to have to rebuild that. Right. That's the toughest part about being vulnerable with individuals. You have to give them the option to hurt you, but you also have to give them the option to support you. Right? So if they're.
- [86:22]
A
We said this yesterday. We literally just filled an EP and I said, y' all not want to hear this. You have to give people a chance to hurt you.
- [86:30]
B
You have to. You have to just. Well, now I don't give. I didn't get. You know. But you know what? You know what?
- [86:40]
A
One chance at least you have.
- [86:42]
B
Everybody's threshold is different. Everybody's threshold is different because it may be like, oh, you got one. Time to slap me. Which, like, valid. You do.
- [86:50]
A
You got one.
- [86:51]
B
But, like, you better get it good, too, because you. You have to. People will think about, like, oh, I think a lot of times in therapy, one of the things I'm helping individuals do is acknowledge whether or not they're giving someone behavior and energy that they didn't earn. And a lot of people do this. Like, you are giving your person. You're giving the person in your life energy that the person before Them earned. And you're engaging with them in that. And it could be because you didn't feel comfortable talking to that person that way. It could be that you feel so safe with this person that this stuff is coming out, but taking a step back and being like, did they earn this? Like, oh, no, they did. They earned my disrespect or did they earn me being critical of what they're doing? No. The person behind before them cheated on me 50 times and now I'm giving them energy that they didn't deserve. Like, they didn't earn that right. That happens a lot in therapy. And I'm just like, so what's the evidence? Right? Because we're like inspector gadgets. What's the evidence that you that tracking their location means that they're going to cheat less? Have you. Have we had. And what's the evidence that they treated you poorly? There's none. Oh. But the evidence of you being treated poorly is the person you're not with anymore. You're giving them energy that they didn't earn. And that's not right. So I know you thought you were going to come into session. That's why people be like, I would love to be in therapy with you. No, you wouldn't. You would much rather be my friend. So you coming into session, you don't want it.
- [88:04]
A
But dragged. Yes.
- [88:05]
B
Yeah. Like, so you're giving them energy that they didn't deserve. So you thought you were coming into the session, me saying that they're wrong.
- [88:10]
A
Wrong.
- [88:10]
B
And yet that's not gonna happen. No. Your journal. Two people, you know, like two people. I tell my husband all the time I can be annoying and write it all at the same time. I'm sure it's annoying. How right I am, dear. I would be annoyed too. I would. But I can also be.
- [88:27]
A
My God, girl, please.
- [88:29]
B
Yup. Yeah. And I'd be like, but. But did I lotto. But did I?
- [88:33]
A
No.
- [88:36]
B
I know. I feel like I get annoyed when you write too. I just deal with it better.
- [88:41]
A
Dr. Raquel Martin, thank you so much for being on Crystal's couch the first time. Thank you for having me to be on the couch. This was incredible. Please tell the people what you've been doing and where they can find you.
- [88:54]
B
So you can find me on all platforms. Raquelmartinphd.com on Threads. Threads is where I go to talk trash. So if you. I really do enjoy it. Noted. I'm so petty. I'll just reply. How old are you? Reply, this is stupid. It's so fun.
- [89:11]
A
It's.
- [89:11]
B
It's so fun. And then Instagram and, and Tick tock and then Raquel Martin, Ph.D. i have a podcast, the mind your mental podcast. It's on Tuesdays. My website has a bunch of free resources, y'. All. I really do just love giving away free stuff. So, like if you go To Raquel Martin PhD.com you click Mental health guides, you create a login and you log in and all the resources are there. I do it as a login because I'm not going to remember a newsletter. So I randomly will just upload something and be like, hey, just a heads up. I put up two new posts like a month ago. Check it out. I'm not going to email you. I'm not going to remember. I'm not.
- [89:44]
A
And we're probably not going to read them emails. So thank you.
- [89:46]
B
That's what I'm saying. You're not gonna read them. So just go there and click the button and you hit download PDF. I'm not, I'm not. I made the PDF. I gotta advertise too. I don't wanna. Okay, so there's a finding a therapist guide for that. I have a couple of projects. I have the Burn the Cape group for black women. It's a support group. We're starting again in January. We're coming up with a new group with two of my clinician, my colleagues, A break the hammer support group for black men. And I am also the founder of the largest mental health community for black women in the world. We got like 9,000 members. It's called the Sanctuary. And every single month we. I do two live events, I do a live book club, and I do a live mental health discussion. And the mental health discussion is just about the topic of the month. Like this month. Last month's topic was self sacrificing. And you kind of just get to do a course. I always, I have so many roles, but I think educator is the biggest one. So I do like a little lecture about what self sacrificing is for black women. You get affirmations and you get journal prompts and you get worksheets. And for each resource you get, you get a video about why it's so important and you just get to keep it. And it's all for black women. Now, I don't want any confusion because I'm sure your audience is amazing. This is for black people. This is for black women. Okay? This is not something where I say, are we welcome? You are welcome to donate to my burn the Cape GoFundMe. But this is only for black women. I'm not playing. Okay.
- [91:06]
A
Love being clear about that.
- [91:08]
B
I'm not like, it's just what it is. And you also wouldn't get the same benefit. Me talking to black women about the impact of Jezebel stereotype on their sexuality would have nothing to do with you.
- [91:17]
A
Right.
- [91:17]
B
You know, I'm sure there's reasons for you, but for black women having to talk about church and the stereotypes and sexuality, that's going to be different. And I'm not making it general. I'm talking specifically about black women. And we deserve a space like that.
- [91:30]
A
So don't try again. Thank you again, not just for being on the show, but for curating these spaces for black people and focusing on us specifically. Because, of course, we have our own struggles and things that we have to keep in mind as we're trying to heal and recover and live full and happy lives. So thank you again, Dr. Martin. Thank you for tuning into Crystal's Couch. Remember, you can follow us online at Crystal's Couch and if you have a question for me, send me an email advice at crystalscouch. Com. We'll see you next week.