Are Your Personal Care Products Really Non-Toxic? | Zebra Founder Jenn Thatcher

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark

Episode: Are Your Personal Care Products Really Non-Toxic? | Zebra Founder Jenn Thatcher

Release Date: October 15, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex Clark engages in a profound conversation with Jenn Thatcher, the founder of Zebra USA, a company dedicated to creating non-toxic personal and home care products. Driven by personal tragedy and a commitment to transparency, Jenn shares her journey toward establishing a brand that genuinely prioritizes health and wellness without compromising on effectiveness or aesthetics.

Personal Story and Motivation

Jenn opens up about the catalyst that propelled her into the world of non-toxic product development.

Jenn Thatcher [00:00]: "It is..."

Jenn recounts the harrowing experiences her family endured when her four-year-old daughter developed an ovarian cyst and her son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. These health crises prompted her to scrutinize everyday household and personal care products, revealing unsettling truths about ingredients marketed as "natural."

Jenn Thatcher [07:54]: "So the companies are not as honest as I had thought..."

Hidden Dangers in Personal Care Products

Jenn delves into the deceptive nature of product labeling, highlighting how the absence of FDA definitions for "natural" allows companies to include harmful chemicals under misleading labels.

Jenn Thatcher [00:24]: "Even though it's marketed as natural, there's no definition of natural from the FDA."

Hydroxyapatite vs. Fluoride in Toothpaste

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on hydroxyapatite, a popular ingredient in natural toothpaste, and its equivalence to fluoride.

Jenn Thatcher [00:27]: "I actually think it's as detrimental as fluoride."

Jenn criticizes the rapid adoption of nano hydroxyapatite in the holistic community without sufficient scrutiny, comparing it unfavorably to traditional fluoride.

Jenn Thatcher [00:52]: "The people that don't like fluoride. Why nano hydroxyapatite?"

The Creation of Zebra USA

Fueled by her discoveries, Jenn founded Zebra USA with a mission to provide truly non-toxic, effective, and aesthetically pleasing personal care products. She emphasizes the importance of transparency and honesty in ingredient sourcing.

Jenn Thatcher [00:54]: "With Zebra, we did ingredients that are black and white because we don't want to trick anyone."

Jenn shares her frustration with the lack of trustworthy options in the market, leading her to develop Zebra's own line of products that meet her stringent standards.

Specific Product Discussions

Non-Toxic Deodorant

Jenn discusses the complexities of creating an effective non-toxic deodorant, addressing common concerns and the importance of a clean diet in the transition process.

Jenn Thatcher [23:16]: "It is a struggle. And so that was top of mind for me because I want products that perform."

She explains how Zebra's deodorant avoids endocrine disruptors by using carefully sourced essential oils and offers formulas both with and without baking soda to cater to sensitive users.

Jenn Thatcher [25:05]: "We're using essential oils that are beautifully sourced."

Toothpaste vs. Tooth Tablets

The conversation shifts to dental care, where Jenn contrasts traditional toothpaste with Zebra's innovative tooth tablets, highlighting their convenience and effectiveness.

Jenn Thatcher [27:34]: "Toothpaste is just for people who want the traditional toothpaste."

She notes that the tablets can even be consumed as breath mints, adding an element of versatility to oral hygiene.

Floss and PFAS Concerns

Jenn reveals alarming information about conventional floss containing PFAS, harmful "forever chemicals" linked to various health issues.

Jenn Thatcher [18:42]: "Most floss that's sold in America is made in China and has PFAS in it."

Zebra's solution involves using silk filament floss manufactured in Italy, ensuring it is free from plastics and petroleum-derived waxes.

Jenn Thatcher [19:46]: "So our floss is manufactured in Italy."

Future Plans and Product Expansion

Looking ahead, Jenn shares Zebra's plans to expand into other personal and home care products, including laundry detergent and skincare items, all adhering to the brand's commitment to cleanliness and efficacy.

Jenn Thatcher [35:48]: "Maybe a little skincare."

Broader Insights and Cultural Healing

Beyond product development, Jenn offers her perspective on healing a "sick culture," emphasizing the role of spirituality and ethical living.

Jenn Thatcher [36:42]: "It's Jesus. If we all... lived our lives the way the Bible tells us to live..."

She believes that embracing values from the Bible and the Constitution can foster a healthier, more compassionate society.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Alex expressing admiration for Jenn and Zebra USA's mission, highlighting the alignment between their goals to promote physical, mental, and spiritual wellness.

Alex Clark [38:12]: "Yay zebra.com."

Jenn’s dedication to creating non-toxic, effective products serves as a beacon for consumers seeking genuine wellness solutions, reinforcing the podcast’s mission to heal culture through informed choices and honest dialogue.

Notable Quotes

• Jenn Thatcher [00:24]: "Even though it's marketed as natural, there's no definition of natural from the FDA."
• Jenn Thatcher [00:27]: "I actually think it's as detrimental as fluoride."
• Jenn Thatcher [00:54]: "With Zebra, we did ingredients that are black and white because we don't want to trick anyone."
• Jenn Thatcher [23:16]: "It is a struggle. And so that was top of mind for me because I want products that perform."
• Jenn Thatcher [36:42]: "It's Jesus. If we all... lived our lives the way the Bible tells us to live..."

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For more insightful discussions on health and wellness, tune into Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark available on Spotify and Real Alex Clark YouTube.

Transcript

[Alex Clark]

Wait, I'm sorry. Organic grape juice is responsible, you think, for causing your 4 year old's ovarian cyst?

[Jen Thatcher]

It is. I'll just say the company is not as honest as I had thought. I sat down with everything that we used.

[Alex Clark]

What did you find out?

[Jen Thatcher]

The things that have ensued have been catastrophic for our family. Even though it's marketed as natural, there's no definition of natural from the fda.

[Alex Clark]

So hydroxyapatite is not better than fluoride.

[Jen Thatcher]

I actually think it's as detrimental as fluoride. Why would the whole holistic community adopt an ingredient so quickly? It felt very strange to me. It felt very calculated, like this ingredient was being served up to the holistic community. The people that don't like fluoride. Why nano hydroxyapatite? So everyone in the holistic community is like, no, not nano sunscreen, but we're using it in a toothpaste. So for me that was a hard no.

[Alex Clark]

Why the name Zebra?

[Jen Thatcher]

With zebra, we did ingredients that are black and white because we don't want to trick anyone. Our goal is to be completely transparent and open in everything that we do.

[Alex Clark]

She was a mom desperate for answers after her four year old daughter developed an ovarian cyst and her son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Were dirty household and personal care products to blame? Some products labeled natural weren't all that natural. And as a parent to sick children, she wanted to change that. Jen Thatcher is the founder of Zebra USA made non toxic personal and home care products with ingredients that are black and white. She's going to answer some questions like why hydroxyapatite isn't much better than fluoride, if seed oils should be avoided in personal care products, the problem with most floss on the market and a how to guide on switching to natural deodorant. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. We need five star reviews supporting the show. Please pause right now. Leave one so you don't forget. If you want extra credit, consider becoming a regular financial supporter of the show for any amount by clicking the link in the show notes tax deductible. Culture Apothecary is completely donor funded. So if you like the show and you want it to stick around, consider funding the mission to heal a sick culture. Don't forget that brand new merch is available now@tsa merch.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off. Please welcome the founder of Zebra, Jen Thatcher to Culture Apothecary. What dangers are lurking in our household cleaning supplies.

[Jen Thatcher]

So many hidden chemicals and dangers in household supplies and personal care. But cleaning supplies in general have things like fragrance that people are inhaling and it's all over their house, which can cause lung cancer. There's endocrine disruptors, there's things that cause oxidative stress to the body. So these products are just all over our homes and all over our bodies and assaulting us every day.

[Alex Clark]

I think it's interesting, there's so many places that have fragrance that we don't even think about, because I'm thinking canned candles, your body washes, of course, perfumes, of course. And then like plug in air fresheners and stuff. What do you think about people that hang those air fresheners in their car? Would you ever do that?

[Jen Thatcher]

I would not ever do that. And my son has done that in the past. And it drives me crazy because you're literally breathing that in, like every second of every day. But also, like you said, perfumes, colognes, that's another one. They're actually. They get stuck on your clothes because a fragrance molecule is bound to fibers with plastic. So in order for it to stay on your clothes. So think laundry detergent that's scented. The reason that that scent never gets washed out of your clothing is because it's. It's bound with a tiny piece of microplastic into the fibers of your clothing. And then you're breathing that in.

[Alex Clark]

I didn't even know that. And you're right that there are so many plastics in our clothes. We learned that about Lululemon leg things. A lot of our athletic wear, probably what I'm wearing, honestly, right now, a lot of our athletic wear type of clothes is filled with microplastics.

[Jen Thatcher]

Right? So the laundry detergent too, also has petrochemicals. You know, it's. So if you find a truly natural laundry detergent, it's not going to make your clothes smell like a fragrance. So we're currently developing a laundry detergent, but it's been kind of a journey because, you know, people want that smell afterwards. But the smell that we have is very light because it's from essential oils and we don't have any chemicals in it that are endocrine disruptors. And we also don't have anything in there that's going to harm or disrupt the waterways, because that's another big one. You know, people are pouring this laundry detergent into their laundry every day. But then where does it go after? It's. It's going into our water supply. So again, you're drinking, you know, these fragrances and microplastics in the water supply.

[Alex Clark]

Exactly. Have you always been an entrepreneur?

[Jen Thatcher]

Yes. I think I started, you know, really young, but then I was a stay at home mom for a long time, and then I worked as a regional vice president for a Wall street firm. And then when I married my husband, we were both traveling a lot, and I had to figure out what I was going to do to still keep working, because I love to work, but be home and be there for my kids. So I just became an artist accidentally and grew a worldwide art brand. Whoa.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, okay. Well, then you're like a real artist, because I was telling you off camera, I was like, I have a lot of dark art in my house. I have all this weird stuff. And you're like, oh, you would hate my stuff. And I thought you were talking about stuff from HomeGoods. You're like the real deal.

[Jen Thatcher]

Oh, yeah.

[Alex Clark]

You would be like a real art critic.

[Jen Thatcher]

Yeah, it's been amazing. It was totally unexpected. And I grew this art brand worldwide. We have a wallpaper line that's in Japan and Dubai, and I ship art to Egypt.

[Alex Clark]

I love wallpaper, Jen. I. So I have wallpaper all over my apartment. It's. It's like peel and stick because I'm renting, so I can't have, like permanent wallpaper. But I love dark, moody, floral wallpapers. And I've been telling everybody wallpaper is like the thing right now in interior design. It's coming back for sure.

[Jen Thatcher]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

Because it was paint. It was paint for a while.

[Jen Thatcher]

Definitely. Yes.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, I love that.

[Jen Thatcher]

Neighbor's having a moment.

[Alex Clark]

And how many kids do you have?

[Jen Thatcher]

I have three.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, and what are their ages?

[Jen Thatcher]

So Jack is 20, Olivia's 23, and then my youngest, K, is 11.

[Alex Clark]

When did you start noticing that there was something not right with your son?

[Jen Thatcher]

It was actually before my son. It was my youngest. When she was 4, she started complaining of stomach pain, and I kept taking her to the doctor. And it wasn't just regular stomach pain, like a stomachache. It was. She was actually losing consciousness from the pain. So. So I brought her to the er. They said, oh, it's not her appendix. It must be viral. Brought her again to the er. So this went on for days. Ultimately, on our last trip to the er, they said, we're really sorry. We just realized that she has an ovarian cyst that's as big as her ovary. And so they rushed her into emergency surgery. And when they called me with the Pathology reports, they said this was just so unusual. We've searched the medical journals. We cannot find another child that was 4 years old that had this happen.

[Alex Clark]

That is shocking at four years old. Old.

[Jen Thatcher]

So the closest age range to this particular thing happening, ovarian torsion, which means her ovary was twisting like a sponge. It's incredibly painful because the weight of this cyst was so large. It was causing her ovary to do that. 13 years old, closest age range in the medical journals to have this. And so I went home and I said, this is so weird. I've always tried to be holistic and natural with all my products. How can it be that my child is the only one that's ever happened to? And so I started looking for the things that we use and consume every day. And what I came upon is the grape juice, the organic grape juice that she was drinking.

[Alex Clark]

Wait, I'm sorry, organic grape juice is responsible, you think, for causing your 4 year old's ovarian cysts?

[Jen Thatcher]

I believe so.

[Alex Clark]

Why?

[Jen Thatcher]

Lawsuit. But there was a current lawsuit pending for this company for having an endocrine hormone disruptor in the juice.

[Alex Clark]

Stop. And is this juice on the market today?

[Jen Thatcher]

It is.

[Alex Clark]

Are you, like, able to say what it is or. No. Because of legal stuff.

[Jen Thatcher]

I'll just say the company is not as honest as I had thought. And that is all I will say. The lawsuit has now been scrubbed from the Internet, so.

[Alex Clark]

And that's because what? Their company, they're scrubbing it. So. So moms don't know.

[Jen Thatcher]

I'm not sure. Maybe it's been taken care of. But for me, that was just a really interesting thing that my daughter had been consuming for years. That fit why she would have an ovarian cyst, because that's a hormonal thing that normally happens.

[Alex Clark]

Jen, I had no idea about this grape juice.

[Jen Thatcher]

Yes. So then six months later was when my son, he had been having migraines for a while, and I'd been taking him to the neurologist, but it started amping up. And he was having really weird episodes at school. And so he started texting me from school today, mom, mom, mom, mom. One day it was, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. And I like, what's going on? And he had lost vision, he had lost motor function in his arms. He was slurring his speech. It was almost like he had a stroke at school. So when he finally kind of got out of that, he was able to text me. I ran to school, I picked him up, and I said, buddy, I know that we have got this diagnosed. You've got migraines. But we're just going to go to the ER and get all the imaging done just to check that off the list. It's going to be fine. And so 13 hours at the ER and they came back and said he had a mass on his brain.

[Alex Clark]

Was he drinking the grape juice?

[Jen Thatcher]

He was not.

[Alex Clark]

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[Jen Thatcher]

They had no ideas. They said, it's in a really weird spot and it doesn't make sense for why it would be causing these symptoms. And so we flew around to different neurosurgeons throughout the country. Some said, do the surgery. Some said, don't do the surgery. Some said, he'll be a vegetable after. Some said, we don't know. We don't know if it's cancer. We don't know what it is.

[Alex Clark]

What was your theory about what was going on?

[Jen Thatcher]

We didn't know. But we did think that the symptoms he was having were obviously caused by the brain tumor. So we decided to do the surgery. And while he was on the surgery table, the surgeon came out and said, I need to run upstairs and do some more research. So he was literally having the surgery. And I were you like, why didn't.

[Alex Clark]

You do that before?

[Jen Thatcher]

Well, I just was like, okay. But he's just never seen it before. So afterward he came and he said this was very rare. This was one of 24 that I can find of reported brain tumors in this location.

[Alex Clark]

Where you guys were living, you're in Texas, right? This all happened in Texas. I mean, were you guys living near a 5G tower? Was there anything in your environment that was contributing to this illness in your kids?

[Jen Thatcher]

I couldn't think of anything. And People that have known me for my whole life have known that organic food and natural products were always something that were so top of mind to me. Even when my oldest daughter was a baby and we struggled financially, I put things way ahead, like organic food, of paying other bills.

[Alex Clark]

Right, right.

[Jen Thatcher]

We went without so that we could provide. So that I could provide the natural, better things for my children. So people that knew me were just like, how does this happen to you? And I just didn't know.

[Alex Clark]

And how did that make you feel? Knowing, like, I felt like I was doing everything right as it made me feel terrible.

[Jen Thatcher]

So after the brain surgery, I sat down with everything that we used. Products that we use every day that I was paying top dollar for, I thought were good. But I still wanted to just go through the ingredients, ingredient by ingredient, and make sure that they were what I thought they were. And what I discovered was they weren't.

[Alex Clark]

What did you find out?

[Jen Thatcher]

So I was using a hydroxyapatite toothpaste at the time and, you know, deodorant that I thought was natural. I found out the deodorant had baking soda in it that was chemically mined from the earth. So they extract the baking soda with chemicals and fragrance, which is a hormone disruptor. Even though it's marketed as natural. There's no definition of natural from the fda.

[Alex Clark]

I didn't know that either.

[Jen Thatcher]

So they have not defined it. So really, anyone can slap that on there, and it's up to a consumer to challenge that. So with Zebra, we did ingredients that are black and white because we don't want to trick anyone. Our goal is to be completely transparent and open in everything that we do. But the toothpaste bothered me. I thought hydroxyapatite was the hero, superstar ingredient at the time. And then it also had sorbitol in it, which is not a natural sweetener. And then it had propanediol, which is a propylene glycol derivative, which I was like, that's really not natural. Sometimes that can be derived from GMO corn. So I was like, this is just not what I thought it was. And so it was at that moment that I started searching for products that really, really were effective but as clean as I wanted them to be.

[Alex Clark]

And how many were on the market, I just.

[Jen Thatcher]

I couldn't really find anything that I felt like met my standards. I wanted something that was effective, that was clean. And I also like cute packaging. I'm kind of a packaging snob. So I feel like a lot of the stuff that's out There, if it's clean, it's kind of uninspired and boring. And you know, I was like, I want something that makes people happy when they look at it that people want to set on their bathroom counter. And so is at that moment that Zebra was born. Because I was like, it shouldn't have to be as hard, you know, people shouldn't be getting sick from their products and you shouldn't have to have a chemistry degree and you shouldn't have to read all these labels and do all this research. And I had to do all this research just to figure out that these products I was buying were not good for my family.

[Alex Clark]

What ended up happening with your son's tumor?

[Jen Thatcher]

So he had the brain surgery. And it's been a long road after the brain surgery. The things that have ensued have been catastrophic for our family. So it's, it's been a hard journey. That is really a long story. But my son has never been the same. And so it is truly my desire, you know, with Zebra, to a keep myself busy and not think about that every day, but also to make sure that people's products never cause a family to walk the road that we've had to walk.

[Alex Clark]

What did you discover about toxins in floss?

[Jen Thatcher]

So most floss that's sold in America is made in China and has PFAS in it.

[Alex Clark]

What is pfas?

[Jen Thatcher]

So the forever chemical that used to be on the non stick pans that stays in your bloodstream forever and is responsible for a whole host of, you know, disease and side effects.

[Alex Clark]

So, so if you are listening and you are one of these families who just recently threw out all of your non stick pans because you understand the Teflon danger and the forever chemical danger, but you are still using traditional floss that you at Target. You may still be putting forever chemicals directly into your family's bloodstream, their bloodstream.

[Jen Thatcher]

And then there's other natural flosses out there that are PFAS free, but most of them are made from recycled water bottles into a polyester filament, which is so interesting to me because it's like, that's great that it's PFAS free, but you're putting plastic directly into your bloodstream still.

[Alex Clark]

So, and so what is the floss that you guys have? How did you decide to create floss that would be different?

[Jen Thatcher]

So our floss is manufactured in Italy. There was no plant in America that makes floss that would meet our standards.

[Alex Clark]

So every product at Zebra is made in the USA except the floss and it's Italy, which is just, you know, it's fancy.

[Jen Thatcher]

We felt fine about it.

[Alex Clark]

It's Fashion Week.

[Jen Thatcher]

Floss. Yes, exactly. So we used a silk filament to make sure that it was not plastic. And then another funny thing that I discovered while I was developing this floss is that a lot of times the vegan wax or the microcrystalline wax is petroleum derived. So they can call it vegan wax and you think it's from a vegetable, but it's actually petroleum.

[Alex Clark]

And what would petroleum potentially do to the body?

[Jen Thatcher]

Well, your body can't absorb that, so it just, it just negatively affects the body in a whole bunch of ways. We don't want to be consuming petroleum.

[Alex Clark]

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[Jen Thatcher]

It is a struggle. And so that was top of mind for me because I want products that perform. So our formulas took two years to develop and I wanted really, really healthy products that actually work because if you're going to pay the extra money for the great ingredients, you want products that, that do perform.

[Alex Clark]

How did you source the ingredients for your deodorant?

[Jen Thatcher]

So that's a funny story. We actually got fired by a manufacturer in the process of creating the deodorant because I was being such a pain with the ingredients. And they're not used to brands who are willing to pay double for the ingredients. They're not used to brands who want to source out outside of China. So I said for my deodorant and my toothpaste, we're not using ingredients from China. We're just not doing it because there's not much oversight over there. And ingredients from China are typically known to have higher heavy metals or they're just adulterated. They're not what they say they are. So like, you know, your last guest with just ingredients was saying the turmeric powder, that is absolutely true. They will send you something that is either kind of the ingredient or they throw in a little extra and that makes them more money. So I was like, we're just, just, we're not doing that. So my first deodorant manufacturer did not want to perform the testing and uphold the standards that we have for our deodorant. So I was like, I want you to, you know, email and set up a vendor account with this little farmer in France for these essential oils. And they were like, we're not doing that. You know.

[Alex Clark]

So were you able to find somebody that was willing? Yes, okay, great. And so what is different about your non toxic deodorant compared to other non toxic deodorants out there?

[Jen Thatcher]

Well, a lot of the non toxic deodorants are still using fragrance with which is an endocrine disruptor. We're using essential oils that are beautifully sourced. We're also using natural baking soda in two of our formulas. So we're mining that from the earth with water versus and then we have two formulas that don't have baking soda at all because some people are sensitive to baking soda. So for those we're using arrowroot powder. So it's very gentle but still really effective.

[Alex Clark]

What is the best way for somebody to transition from standard deodorant to a non toxic one? Because I think that is one of the hardest transitions to make because it is a little bit different.

[Jen Thatcher]

It is hard. And what people don't realize is the diet is super important in that.

[Alex Clark]

Really? Wait, I didn't know that. So, so what you're eating can affect how well you transition from a toxic deodorant to a non toxic one?

[Jen Thatcher]

Absolutely. Because everything we take in is, you know, going into our lymphatic system, so to speak. Right. So all the toxins, all the heavy metals and they're coming out under the arms or through the lymphatic system through sweat. So if you're eating unclean, you're gonna smell bad. Like the diet is the most important thing. So you have to have a clean diet in order for a natural deodorant to do its, its best work.

[Alex Clark]

Are we supposed to be at least a little bit damp?

[Jen Thatcher]

Yes, your body is supposed to sweat. You definitely don't want any deodorant. The no natural deodorant will stop you from sweating. So that's a super important process that God created for us to detox. You know, we're, we're pushing those toxins out of our body so we want to be able to do that.

[Alex Clark]

So when you are wearing a deodorant that doesn't allow you to sweat at all, basically the toxins are just trapped in your body.

[Jen Thatcher]

Absolutely. So the people that are transitioning from a deodorant like, or an antiperspirant like that to a natural deodorant are going to have a long road because they probably have years and years of built up toxins in their lymphatic system that need to come out. So we had one customer that said your deodorant doesn't work. I used it for two days and I Still stink. And it's like, okay, well, what were you using before this? Probably, you know, an unnatural deodorant for 30 years. So you've, you've got a little bit of a detox period before it's, it's, it's going to perform the way it should.

[Alex Clark]

What is the difference between your toothpaste and your tooth tablets?

[Jen Thatcher]

They're a different experience. I love them. So toothpaste is just for people who want the traditional toothpaste. It's easy for little kids to use, kids that don't have molars to chew the tablets the toothpaste is great for. I personally love the tablets. That's what I use. I don't know, there's just something about them that makes them feel convenient. So I just like pop them in my purse. They feel easy.

[Alex Clark]

Hold on, you can, you don't have to, like, use a toothbrush is something you eat.

[Jen Thatcher]

So I have customers who actually eat them. Like a breath mint every now and again. So you can do that, but you can take it and just run it underwater, get it a little bit wet. You put it in your mouth, you chew it up, it. It turns into a paste like a toothpaste, and you just brush with it. I don't know why, it's a different experience. But they taste amazing and they work amazing.

[Alex Clark]

I like your toothpaste. You have a mint one and you have a coconut one.

[Jen Thatcher]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

And I like that because sometimes kids, you know, don't want, like a super minty toothpaste.

[Jen Thatcher]

They don't want the spicy.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep. Why the name Zebra?

[Jen Thatcher]

God gave me the name Zebra. Honestly. He woke me up in the middle of the night in a dream and said, zebra. Ingredients that are black and white. And I thought about it and I was like, yes, like the Constitution in the Bible. So we are very forward in our brand values about loving God and loving America. And so zebra, you know, they're wild animals. They don't trust the system. They want to be left alone. They don't look like anything else in the animal kingdom. And so I feel like we're this brand that's doing it differently. We don't look or function like any of the other animals in space.

[Alex Clark]

You mention the Constitution, the Bible. You have this written on your website that you live by. The Constitution in the Bible. Why get political? Why get religious? Most small business owners would opt out of making a statement like that.

[Jen Thatcher]

A lot of reasons. First of all, that's who I am as a person. I'm not Afraid to stand up when I feel something needs to be said. I do believe that, you know, the Constitution shouldn't be political. Some people think it is now. So I think if you believe in the Constitution, it automatically, you know, associates you with one side, which I think is really sad. I think everyone in America should associate with the Constitution. I don't think that should be a political stance as far as standing for Christ. Like that's something that, you know, we will never be ashamed of. And I wish more brands would do that because I think there's a lot of people who don't want to support companies that are supporting demonic agendas. And so we wanted to be very forward to let people know that if they want a brand that's truly non toxic and effective and supports the things that they believe in, here we are.

[Alex Clark]

What is something about chemicals or toxins in personal care products that would blow our minds?

[Jen Thatcher]

I would say hydroxyapatite is what blew my mind. So when I first started developing Zebra, I was developing a hydroxyapatite toothpaste because it is the favorite ingredient of the holistic space. And everyone thinks it's wonderful. So we were in R and D for that and I had placed a purchase order for our perfect hydroxyapatite toothpaste that we developed. And the more I researched while I was doing that, the more I felt like it is not the ingredient that everyone thinks it is.

[Alex Clark]

So hydroxyapatite is not better than fluoride?

[Jen Thatcher]

I don't think so. I actually think it's as detrimental as fluoride.

[Alex Clark]

Stop. Yes, that's a hot take. Why?

[Jen Thatcher]

So there's micro hydroxyapatite and nano hydroxyapatite. So we'll start with nano. So if you're using a sunscreen, everyone knows you don't want to use a nano sunscreen, right? Because nanotechnology goes, you know, directly in your bloodstream and can get into your cells and do all sorts of things. So why would we want to use that in a toothpaste? Like we're putting that directly into our bloodstream. Okay, it's the nano hydroxyapatite. So everyone in the holistic community is like, no non nano sunscreen, but we're using it in a toothpaste. So for me, that was a hard no. So then there's the other micro hydroxyapatite, which is a bigger molecule, but studies have shown that that micro can't actually remineralize the teeth in X rays. It looks like it's remineralizing the teeth. So you're getting all these X rays coming back, people saying, I healed cavities, my teeth are better than ever. But it's actually a superficial coating that they're putting on the teeth.

[Alex Clark]

It's like the birth control of toothpaste.

[Jen Thatcher]

It is crazy. And so the amount of DMS that we get every day saying, oh my goodness, I've been using hydroxyapatite for two years. I have a hole in my tooth. Oh my goodness. I just took my kid to the dentist and they have 12 cavities and all I can think of is we've been using hydroxyapatite for two years. So there are so many people starting to see the effects of this that they thought that they were actually healing their teeth, but it's just a superficial coating they're putting on the tooth.

[Alex Clark]

So what are you guys using instead then?

[Jen Thatcher]

First of all, we believe that remineralizing first starts with the diet. So you need to make sure you're getting the proper minerals in your diet. But for us, we're using xylitol. And a lot of people have said, oh, xylitol. There was a study that came out where xylitol, you know, can have negative health effects. But that study, people were drinking 30 grams of xylitol in one state.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, that might do it, you know, so, hey, you can eat also have like overconsumption of water.

[Jen Thatcher]

Right. You have to take these studies in context. So xylitol is one of the most proven ingredients in oral care. It's been studied for 60 years. And what it does is it starves the bacteria. So the xylitol is one of our first ingredients and we sourced that from Europe versus the other companies that are sourcing xylitol, usually from China. So we have the cleanest xylitol available. And it starves the bacteria. So it's literally stopping the formation of plaque, like right then and there at the very beginning. And then we also have calcium carbonate, which is a mineral that helps to remineralize.

[Alex Clark]

But I was using just some non toxic toothpaste from whole foods. It was hydroxyapatite. Appetite hydroxy. It was hydroxyapatite. And I was getting like little gray spots on my teeth in between my teeth. And I was like, the only thing that I have changed is switching, you know, from like typical crest whatever to this non toxic one. And now I'm getting these gray spots. Then I tried zebra gray spots, went away. Have had zero issues. I, I do absolutely prefer your toothpaste to whatever I was trying at Whole Foods. It just was not. Something was weird. So it must be that ingredient.

[Jen Thatcher]

Something is off. And I just had this intu. That I, you know, why would the whole holistic community adopt an ingredient so quickly? It just felt. It felt very strange to me. It felt very calculated, like this ingredient was being served up to the holistic community. The people that don't like fluoride. Why? I don't know. It just didn't feel right. And so the more that we interact with our customers. In fact, on one of your posts, the Will Whit post, someone said my tooth turned black. And we're getting messages like that a lot from people who are saying my teeth are turning colors. I have a black tooth. I have a hole in my tooth. You know, whatever it is, I have a yellow spot on my tooth. And they're all people who've been using hydroxyapatite for a good amount of time.

[Alex Clark]

If somebody wanted to try zebra, which product do you think they should try first?

[Jen Thatcher]

I don't know. I guess it depends on what they're currently using and experiencing with their products. I think our deodorant is amazing.

[Alex Clark]

It is amazing.

[Jen Thatcher]

The smell of our deodorant just smells to me like a day at the spa. Like, I don't. I haven't found another deodorant on the market that I feel like the scent is good. Our toothpaste tablets are really unique. They're a fun experience. We actually have a lot of customers that message us and say, you know, I used to have to ask my kids to brush their teeth, and now they come to me and ask if they can brush their teeth because they love the tablet experience.

[Alex Clark]

Any hints on upcoming items?

[Jen Thatcher]

So we are hoping to just create a line of products that people can truly trust. So we, we want to venture into everything people use every day. So I would say maybe expect like a really glossy lip gloss.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, makeup stuff.

[Jen Thatcher]

Maybe a little skincare.

[Alex Clark]

Cool.

[Jen Thatcher]

Maybe some home care. We're working on the laundry. Like I said.

[Alex Clark]

Desper need that, Jen. I desperately need it. Please send it to me first. I'll be your guine pig.

[Jen Thatcher]

I actually brought a sample for you today to try. So you know, your audience know.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, good. Yes, thank you. Okay, cool.

[Jen Thatcher]

Yeah, so we. It's. It's tough. The laundry is tough. We want, you know, something that performs, but again, it's. It's harder to get the performance and stay really clean.

[Alex Clark]

If you had one remedy to heal a sick culture, what would it be?

[Jen Thatcher]

That's easy. It's Jesus. If we all, you know, lived our lives the way by the Bible tells us to live our lives, we would eat better, we would treat our neighbors with love and kindness. If we woke up every day looking to serve God instead of serving ourselves, this world would not be sick. But we are. And so we need to, you know, wake up every day with a kingdom purpose, knowing that this world is not our home, that heaven is our home, and we need to just treat each other the way Jesus would want us to treat people.

[Alex Clark]

I absolutely love everything that you've built. I think your products are phenomenal. I actually had a friend of mine send them to me just like organically saying, hey, this is like a cool brand. I think you would like it just that like I should just try it as a consumer. And I was obsessed. I mean as soon as I looked at the ingredients, the mission by the brand that it was conservative, Christian owned everything, I was like, this brand has got to be a part of Culture Apothecary. Like you are a perfect fit for me, for my audience. I love it. I know my audience that has started trying your stuff. They are loving it. I've heard zero complaints. So it really is the best. If somebody wants to try it, where can they go to shop?

[Jen Thatcher]

Yay zebra.com.

[Alex Clark]

Yay zebra.com. which I love that. That's so Alex to have that in there. And what is your Instagram?

[Jen Thatcher]

It is Zebra usa.

[Alex Clark]

Okay. Zebra USA on Instagram. Jen, thank you so much for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[Jen Thatcher]

Thank you. It's an honor. So happy to be here.

[Alex Clark]

I loved how this episode was so jam packed with amazing info and short and sweet. You can get a discount on your Zebra order by using code ALEX for 10 off at yay zebra.com New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday night at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. Anywhere you get your podcasts in the real Alex Clark YouTube. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture physical, mentally and spiritually. Please leave a five star review. If you love the show, tell me how long you've been a listener. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.