← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Death Expert Reveals the Dark Truth Behind Modern Funerals | Natural Funeral CEO Mike Reagan
00:59:06
Loading summary
Transcript165 lines
- [00:00]
A
How did we historically bury bodies and have we changed things to get more toxic?
- [00:07]
B
It all started back with Abe Lincoln. In the Civil War, the use of formaldehyde came into practice as a means of preserving the body of a soldier who has passed until it can make it back to its family.
- [00:23]
A
So we were always embalming bodies.
- [00:25]
B
Certainly formaldehyde is a toxic chemical, but ultimately those toxins are going to be in that soil. If it happens to be near a water table, it might be impacted the water table as well.
- [00:36]
A
So when your kids are running through a sprinkler in the backyard in the middle of July, they could be running through dead bodies?
- [00:44]
B
I suppose that's possible, yeah.
- [01:04]
A
Foreign.
- [01:09]
What happens to your body after you die? Most people don't want to think about it, but what if I told you that the way your body is handled could actually heal the soil, help the environment, and even benefit future generations? Today's guest is Mike Reagan, CEO of the Natural Funeral in Loveland, Colorado. He's a man who has spent over a decade walking families through life's most intimate and difficult transitions. As a trained end of life doula, grief group facilitator, hospice volunteer here, and a true innovator in the funeral industry. He also brings 30 years of executive leadership experience to a profession most of us barely understand or know much about. I love learning about unique jobs. So today we dive into things that most people would consider a little taboo. Why embalming is actually pretty unnecessary in most cases, how natural burials can transform communities and what it really means to leave your body and your legacy in a non toxic, life giving way. If you're fascinated by the macabre, curious about death care, or just want to learn how our final choices can make the world a better place, this conversation will completely change how you think about life and death. Watch this episode in 4K on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture Apothecary on Spotify, which also offers video. This is a great time if you appreciate my effort to think out of the box with my guests and bring a variety of conversations to the show to leave a five star review which takes three seconds and tell us that. Find the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary and me at Real Alex Clark, please welcome CEO of the Natural Funeral, Mike Reagan to Culture Apothecary.
- [02:41]
So you're like the death guy.
- [02:44]
Like we could do Death Guy. TM trademark right?
- [02:47]
B
There we go. Yeah, it's been quite a journey. Yeah.
- [02:50]
A
Yeah, tell us about that. So how in the world did you get into this business. I always wonder that with people that, you know, work in funeral homes or are coroners or just anybody in this industry, it's kind of like this, like, weird thing that people, like, don't like to ask about or talk about, or they're like, is this uncomfortable? Is it weird? I think it's fascinating. And it's especially fascinating because you're doing something that's so industry disrupting.
- [03:14]
B
It started when I was 15, actually. My dad came home and said, hey, they're hiring kids down at the cemetery to clean it up for memorial day. And I wanted to make money, so I went down to the town hall and signed up. And so I was raking leaves and cleaning up the cemetery. And then on memorial day, they kept three of us out of 15 on for the summer. And then I. I started doing a lot more work at the cemetery, including digging graves, because it was cheaper to pay a kid to dig a grave Than it was to hire the backhoe from the highway department. And so I was a laborer at the cemetery throughout high school and college. During school breaks, and not long after, I was working at the cemetery. The local funeral director and funeral homeowner was also the superintendent of the cemetery, and he liked my work ethic. So he said, would you be interested in making some more money and coming by the funeral home and washing and waxing cars before you go to the cemetery? I said, absolutely. And that graduated into me wearing a suit and working wakes and funerals. And also at one point, I became the licensed apprentice embalmer. At age, I guess was 18, I didn't really aspire to get into the funeral home business, But I enjoyed working with families and being there at what for many was the most difficult time of their lives.
- [04:41]
A
What did girls think in high school and college about you working at cemeteries and all this? Was that, like, hard to deal with or no one cared?
- [04:49]
B
No. Well, I mean, it was a small town. It was a town of about 10,000 people, Redfield, Massachusetts, and everyone knew everyone. And yeah, Mike's working cemetery, not a big deal. You know, someone has to.
- [05:01]
A
Yeah, that's interesting. I guess I didn't even realize that there were so many jobs in that industry. Like, you really started at the bottom and then worked your way up. And you hear people talk about that with, like, the hotel business or the restaurant business. You know, I started as a busser. Now I'm. I'm the manager type of a thing.
- [05:16]
B
Well, this graduated to the point where this is back in the late 70s and early 80s. I was wearing a pager, and I'd get paid in the middle of the night, and I have to go do a. A transport. That kind of freaked people out if I was at a party and. Sorry, guys, got to go.
- [05:33]
A
Yeah. Oh, wow. That is wild.
- [05:36]
B
Yeah. But I found it wasn't for me. When someone dies, I believe their soul moves on. And so for me, it was just a body. And I was just caring for the body of a, you know. You know, a loved one to someone, and. But it didn't really freak me out. I can't watch a live surgery on tv. I just. It freaks me out.
- [06:00]
A
Really.
- [06:00]
B
Yeah. But I can. I can handle the, you know, a decedent or the body of a. Of a dead person just. Just fine.
- [06:08]
A
I have to ask, and, I mean, we have a lot of serious things to talk about, but I would be remiss if I did not ask. As a funeral director, have you had anything spooky or supernatural happen while it was just you and the body?
- [06:22]
B
As an end of life duel and hospice volunteer, I've had some really beautiful experiences at the time of someone's passing.
- [06:30]
A
Wait, so what's an end of life doula?
- [06:33]
B
It's similar to a birth doula, you know, where, you know, if someone aids the mother in a natural birth. An end of life doula is someone that supports both the individual who's in their final leg of their journey here on earth, and also supporting the family. And the. The services can run from doing a lot of advanced planning to prepare for the end to defining what it is that you'd like the final experience to be. If, you know, if you've got an illness that you know is terminal, there's some planning that can take place that makes that final leg of your journey more peaceful.
- [07:19]
Both for the patient as well as for the family. And a doula helps support that. They educate the family, they provide comforting presence for the individual. And there's a big spectrum from advanced planning all the way to supporting family and grief after the loss of a loved one and everything in between. That really defines the scope of an end of life doula. Most doulas have their own sweet spot. My sweet spot is sitting vigil with a patient at the very end.
- [07:49]
A
And you've had supernatural things happen.
- [07:52]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't call them supernatural. I'd call them natural. I'll give you two real quick. The first one was a man in his. Probably his late 40s, and he was dying of cancer. And as a hospice volunteer, I was trained to do something called comfort touch, which is like gentle acupressure in the hands and feet. And I went in to serve this man as a volunteer. He was in the care center, hospice care center. And the nurse said, yeah, the man in room four, he's. He's been alone. He has no visitors. He might, you know, like some comfort touch or at least a little company. So I went and I introduced myself to him, and I explained that I was a volunteer and that I was.
- [08:37]
There to offer whatever service I might that might make him more comfortable or address any, you know, issues that he might be facing that he could use some help with. And I asked him if he wanted to try comfort touch, and he said, sure. So I started doing comfort touch on him. As I got to his feet, he. He said, you know, Mike, I just remembered something that I haven't remembered in a long time, and I've never told anyone. And I said, what's that? And he said, I remember being on my tricycle in my driveway in Iowa, and I remember seeing the sun coming up over the trees, and I remember thinking to myself, I used to be part of that light.
- [09:23]
I said, wow, that's really amazing. And I said, can I ask your question? He said, sure. And I said, do you think that you were actually separated from the light, or was it just your perception at the time? And he said, I think it was just my perception at the time. So here. And this man died a couple days later. But to witness an individual at the end of life, their final leg of their journey, come to realize that they are connected to something greater than them was really beautiful. And I knew that it brought him comfort as he faced his final. His final hours. So that was. That was a beautiful thing to witness that type of enlightenment and connection. Another time, I. I was. I was a volunteer in our hospice care center, and I was told that there was a woman who was actively dying, and her sister had left a couple hours earlier. And so I went in to sit with her, and I. I have a. This routine that I go through when I enter the door. As a hospice volunteer, before I enter the patient's room, I pause and I try and leave all of my stuff at the door. And then. So I can just be present with this individual. And then I say a silent prayer to be a channel of peace in whatever way that may manifest for this person. And the woman was unresponsive. She was actively dying. She had labored breathing. She was in her 50s and dying of ALS. And part of my routine is I'LL typically sit bedside. I'll introduce myself. Whether they're conscious or not, I still introduce myself because hearing is oftentimes the last. Last thing to go. And so I'll introduce myself, and then I'll say kind of a silent prayer to them, saying, I'm just a soul, just like you, and I'm here to accompany you on this final leg of your journey and serve in whatever way I can. And then I normally see in my mind's eye at that point, the two of us walking with a perspective of. From behind. So I see us walking into the distance together. And it was different for this woman. When I presented that silent prayer of connection with her. What I saw in my mind's eye was her raising her hands above her head. She was standing on the other side of her body. And she said, yes, yes. And I've never seen that. Normally, I just see us from behind. And it shocked me so much that I opened my eyes and the woman took her last breath.
- [12:00]
I acknowledge just how special this was, what just happened. So I sat with her for about another 10 minutes, and then I went out. I told the nurse that she had passed, and I marked the time that she took her last breath. And then I went and sat with another patient for about a half hour or so. And when I came out of that patient's room, the sister of the woman who had passed earlier approached me and said, I understand you were the volunteer that was with my sister when she passed. I said, yes, I was. She was. She. She passed very peacefully. And the sister raised both hands and said, yes.
- [12:35]
A
What?
- [12:36]
B
Yes. She's been struggling for so long. I'm so glad that she's free from that pain.
- [12:41]
A
Okay. That is so wild. So that's like something in their family like, that. They do, I guess, you know.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah.
- [12:47]
A
And so, yeah, whatever you were seeing or something, I mean, seems like it was. Yeah, that's crazy.
- [12:53]
B
But, yeah, so for me, it was beautiful to see this woman transition and be free from the pain that she was experiencing and to see her ready to go home.
- [13:04]
A
So with all this work you do.
- [13:06]
B
Yeah.
- [13:07]
A
Do you believe in ghosts?
- [13:09]
B
I. Ghosts. I believe that our spirits move on back to the. The. The energy or God that. That we all come from.
- [13:21]
A
So you talk about how there's such a thing as a holistic funeral. What is that?
- [13:27]
B
Holistic funeral is one that sort of brings us back to nature. That's a natural caring for what we call a decedent or a loved one that's passed away. And it's it's void of the common methods of. Of treating a dead body with formaldehyde and embalming, you know, a body to preserve them temporarily, to try and make them look like they used to look like when they were alive, or to perform a flame cremation, which takes an awful lot of energy and also creates a lot of pollution as well. So a holistic funeral can start even before the disposition or the final treatment of the body. It can start right after death. And a holistic funeral practice might be leaving the body where it is. If someone dies at home, maybe you don't immediately swoop in and take the body back to the funeral home. You allow family to sit vigil a little with their body for. For a while. We've supported home vigils for up to three days before.
- [14:39]
A
Really?
- [14:40]
B
Yeah.
- [14:40]
A
I didn't know that was possible.
- [14:42]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I. You know, there's this common perception that, you know, you never touch a dead body. A dead body's dirty. You know, you steer clear of a dead body.
- [14:53]
A
Yeah.
- [14:53]
B
The reality is that's not the case.
- [14:55]
A
I guess I just thought that legally or something, it was against the law. Like, as soon as somebody dies, then you have to call the police. Because I'm thinking about with my own dad. I mean, my dad was dying of cancer and heart failure. He died in his sleep in his chair at home. And so as soon as my mom woke up in the morning, you know, she finds him and then, like, calls the police and they get the coroner and all this, whatever happens. So, like, I don't know. I guess I didn't even know it was possible to let a loved one stay home for a little bit.
- [15:21]
B
Yeah, depends on the state. No federal regulations around this. It's. It's. It's really defined by state regulations and laws. But there. There are two different scenarios that you mentioned. Your dad was dying of cancer.
- [15:39]
A
Yeah. Brain tumor.
- [15:40]
B
Yeah. Most people nowadays are opting to go into hospice care when they know that they've got a terminal diagnosis and curative treatment is no longer desirable. So they go into hospice care. And if someone's in hospice care, you don't need to call 911.
- [15:59]
A
Right.
- [15:59]
B
You simply call your hospice organization. They'll dispatch a nurse to do the formal pronouncement of death, and then they'll support whatever after death care you. You'd like to have for your loved one. And that can include a brief vigil. It could include just asking for the funeral home to come take your loved one into their care. Or A family may want to have a home vigil. And so long as the natural transition process is paused, some people might call it decomposition. To pause the decomposition of a body, you can do so by keeping the body cool. And so for, for many families that have used the natural funeral. We're in Boulder County, Colorado and Loveland, Colorado, they may call us because they want a home vigil. And we will come out and we'll care for their loved one. We'll, we'll help them clean their loved one if they want our assistance with that, and prepare them for a respectful vigil service in their home.
- [17:04]
A
So what do you have to do? Like put ice packs on them or something?
- [17:07]
B
Yeah, we'll use either dry ice or technise, like the gel packs. And so long as we keep the cool, the core cool, it pauses the natural transformation of the body.
- [17:18]
A
And it's not like crazy smells and stuff.
- [17:21]
B
No, no, it's not.
- [17:23]
A
This is so interesting to me. I, I like love subjects like this. It's just so like neat to learn about different career paths and, and different ways to do things.
- [17:36]
Let's talk about your life because clearly things have gotten weird. I know this because you, yes, you, recently found yourself at a Motel 6 at 3am and somehow ended up in a room being stared down by a mongoose. And don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. That mongoose was perched on the dresser like a disgruntled IRS agent. And right beside it was a Bob Ross Chia Pet, fully sprouted with a vape in the pot. And as you stood there in that fluorescent lighting and the stale sweaty smell of the wallpaper peeling, wondering how your life turned into a Discovery Channel fever dream, maybe if you started each day with something actually nourishing, you wouldn't be living out scenes from a wildlife intervention. This leads me to remind you of Taylor Duke's Wellness Strawberries and Cream Grass fed organic Bone Broth protein powder. Because this, this is what people with their lives together use in the morning, AKA me. It tastes like strawberry milk. It has the cleanest ingredient list known to man. No dairy, no fillers, no junk. Just real functional food and way absolutely calling out you weirdos. Literal weirdos. Sorry, you're not very bright that are taking protein powder and putting it in water and being like this is gross. No kidding. I would never drink protein powder mixed in water. Protein powder is great in your smoothie, in a milkshake, baked goods, putting it in your yogurt and mixing it up with fresh food. I mean, come on people. It's like you were bored yesterday. I've tried to set you up with success. Taylor Dick's Wellness Strawberry Protein powder is my protein powder flavor of choice. I put it in my tropical fruit smoothie that I make every morning. It is so famous the Fox News even wrote an article about it. If you don't believe me, Google it. Alex Clark Smoothie, Fox News. You get 20 grams of collagen rich dairy free protein that's organic, that supports your gut, skin, hair, nails, all the things that keep you feeling like a human instead of someone sharing emotional space with a feral predator in a Bob Ross plant. If you want a protein powder that actually tastes good and is good for you, go to Taylor Dukes wellness.com use code Alex Clark for 10% off. And stop telling me you don't like any protein powder because you're mixing it in water. Taylor Dick wellness.com code Alex Clark I yell at you because I love you. I love you and it's why I yell. So I'm in a department store the other day and like an idiot, I walk straight through the fragrance and cosmetic section. Instantly I'm under attack. When you cut toxic chemicals out of your life, that cloud of perfume hits you like a chemical weapon. I'm coughing, blinking, barking like a dog looking for an exit like it's an evacuation drill. That's why I use Branch Basics. Now. Honestly, this has replaced every single cleaner in my house. I freaking love Branch Basics because it is literally one product, one plant and mineral based concentrate that does everything you say. What do you mean by everything else? Okay, I clean my toilet, I clean my shower and my and my counters. And then what? No, you don't understand. It cleans everything. Your laundry, you can wash your produce with it. You can wipe your eye makeup off with it. Clean your baby, you can spray it on your dry wet wipes and create a cleaner baby wet wipe. You can use it on your pet windshield wiper fluid, clean your car. I mean literally anything you can think of. No fragrances, no endocrine disruptor nonsense. Just a safe, effective clean that doesn't make me feel like I need to call Poison Control. The premium starter kit is the best Christmas gift that you can give yourself or your family because your cleaning products affect every part of your life. And switching to Branch Basics genuinely makes my home feel safer, cleaner, calmer. I trust my pet on the floor. I trust my friends when their babies are crawling around on my floor, putting their fingers on the floor and in their Mouths go to branch basics.com use code ALEX15 for 15% off that premium starter kit. You have to change your cleaning products in your house. Get this. For your grandmother, your mom, your sister. Branch basics.com code Alex 15 for 15% off the premium starter kit.
- [21:34]
We talk on this show a lot about being good stewards of our bodies while we're alive.
- [21:40]
B
Yeah.
- [21:40]
A
I had no idea that this stewardship continues in how we're cared for after we die.
- [21:46]
B
Yeah.
- [21:47]
A
So can, can you explain that?
- [21:48]
B
And I'll. I'll use an example. Seth Vidal, who's my business partner at the Natural Funeral and one of the founders of the Natural Funeral, he got into this because he lost three loved ones within four years. His. His father died first, and his father was his adoptive father. He adopted Seth that I think he was around age 9 or 10. And his dad was Mescalero Apache Indian and, and taught Seth all about nature and the importance of respecting mother Earth. And he had a whole set of values that were tied to respect for the earth. And when his dad died, everyone was in shock. They went to the local funeral home they'd go into for generations, and the local funeral director pulled out the file from Seth's grandfather and said, well, this is what we did for your grandfather. Is that what you want for your dad? And Seth being in a state of grief with his mother and other family members, he said, yeah, I guess so. So they went with the baby blue casket and the, the embalming and the, you know, the traditional viewing after embalming was, you know, placed in that casket in a vault into the ground. And, and then within a year, his younger brother died and the same thing happened. Went back to the same funeral home, same baby blue casket in a. Same vault, same cemetery a year later, same thing for his mom. And after his mom passed and after his mom's funeral, he paused and he said, wait a minute. What did we just do?
- [23:22]
We cared for my dad in a way that was completely misaligned with his values. There's got to be another way. And fast forward about three or four years. He started the Natural Funeral to offer natural death care options to families that more closely aligned with their values of, of eco consciousness and, and doing things that were more natural. And so there's a whole suite of ways in which we can care for our loved ones after death that don't require filling the body with toxins and, and buying a casket that, you know, is made of steel and, you know, took a lot of energy to manufacture and to to ship to the funeral homes and so on. So there, there are so many different ways to make our end of life care much more eco friendly.
- [24:15]
A
What the contrarian is gonna say, Mike, is who cares if you're dead? If there's chemicals in your body, you're dead. So what's your response to that?
- [24:24]
B
Some people, most people don't care. They don't think about it. They're not, they're not really aware of what options might there might be. And if you think about it, we thrive when we're alive in part because of the over trillion microorganisms, you know, the, the gut biome that supports our, our immune system, our digestive system and so on. And that gut biome and that bacteria in our body has the ability to continue to support life after we die. If we fill our body with toxins, with, with formaldehyde, we kill all of that and we kill any opportunity for our body to really provide, to foster new life after we die, to return to the cycle of life. You know, if you, you know, we return to dust, right? We are dust and we return to dust. That's what the Bible says, right? And if we return to dust as.
- [25:23]
Filled with toxic chemicals, we're not returning to the cycle of life. And so the opportunity to contribute this beautiful vessel that we occupied while we were living to the cycle of life.
- [25:40]
If we choose to seize the opportunity to foster new life, there are a myriad of options to do that. Not everyone's going to think about that though.
- [25:48]
A
So what I am hearing you describe, in a way, it kind of reminds me of regenerative farming.
- [25:53]
B
Yes, that's, that's a great example.
- [25:56]
A
Okay. Yeah, so in my audience, I think, I think we're pretty familiar with regenerative farming. Should be, if you've been listening. So you know, just the, this, this life cycle and you know, the animals eat a certain way and then, and then they die and then that goes back into the soil, new things grow and it's just, it's better. I mean, even if you're listening to this, my audience leans more conservative, you know, full transparency. So they may not really care about like climate change type of aspect of this conversation, which there is that conversation also to regenerative farming. A lot of people more politically on the left like regenerative farming because of that. But also for my audience, just from a health perspective and wanting to fix our soil so that we can grow better food and all these different things. I mean, that is if you are Christian conservative, we believe in that you know, being good stewards of the earth that God gave us our bodies and, and leaving things better than how we came. I feel like that's something that we would get behind.
- [26:54]
B
Yeah, I think that's beautiful. You know, if you think about the alternative, the cemeteries today to a great extent are toxic wastelands. They're filled with bodies that are filled with formaldehyde and, you know, cement vaults, steel caskets, plastic caskets. It's certainly counter to what you just described.
- [27:16]
A
We talk about non toxic living, but there's also non toxic dying. And some people are going to make fun of that and they're going to think this is like, this is now totally off the deep end. And I'm like, it makes sense to me.
- [27:26]
B
I was just going to say it's, it's not off the deep end. It actually just makes sense. It's, it's natural.
- [27:32]
A
Yeah.
- [27:33]
B
Why do something unnatural? Right. That's actually bad for the planet. And so there are a variety of ways to care for a body in its final disposition that is much better for the earth and for sort of supporting new life than traditional methods.
- [27:50]
A
So is it possible for a human body to literally become fertilizer for the next generation? Like, could somebody's composted remains feed a backyard tomato plant?
- [27:58]
B
Yes.
- [27:59]
A
Explain that to us.
- [28:00]
B
Yeah. So there are, there are a few different ways to care for a decedent that would be considered natural. We have what we call a green burial, which is not embalming a body and simply placing the body, usually in a shroud or in a, an organic material casket, like a pine casket, into a shallow grave and allowing it to contribute to the soil in returning the elements of the body back into the soil to support new life. Ultimately, that takes about 20 years for a body to break down if it's just buried in a grave that without having been embalmed. There are two other methods of natural disposition that allow the body to return to the cycle of life more rapidly. One is something called water cremation. And water cremation is a process where a decedent is placed into a specifically designed stainless steel vessel. And that vessel is then sealed and about 12 gallons of water is added into it along with potassium hydroxide, which is a high alkaline compound. And the vessel is on a, a, a piston that raises and lowers the vessel about 3 degrees. And as it moves up and then moves back down, a very gentle wave is created inside that vessel of the potassium hydroxide and the water. And after about three and a half to four Hours. The only thing remaining in that vessel is the bones of the individual. Any inorganics, like a pacemaker or a fake knee, you know, a titanium knee or something. And then the, what we call a bio stimulant or liquid essence, which is everything in our body save that of the bones, reduced to the basic elements that comprise us. And because we're made of the same stuff that plants are made of, that liquid essence becomes an amazing fertilizer. So after the process is complete, because it's a high alkaline compound that's used to perform this process, we then add a glacial acetic acid that brings that liquid back to a ph balance that's wonderful for plants and to be used as a fertilizer. And so when the process is complete, those three things remain in the vessel. We remove, we filter out all of the inorganics and we send them off for medical recycling. We dry the bones and then reduce them to powder in a device called the cremulator. You ever heard someone say, I've got my aunt's ashes up on the mantle?
- [30:58]
A
Of course, yeah.
- [30:59]
B
It's not ash. Even if it was a flame cremation that person went through. There's, there's, there's no ash remaining inside that retort. The only thing remaining are bone fragments.
- [31:11]
A
Oh, is that what I have in my dad?
- [31:13]
B
Yeah, so it's, it's his. So a. There's a funerary device called a cremulator that reduces those bone fragments to powder, and that's what families get back in and earn.
- [31:25]
A
Interesting.
- [31:26]
B
Same thing happens in water cremation. At the end of the process, they. We filter out the inorganics, then we take the bones and dry them out and reduce the bones to powder. And we deliver that typically back to a family either in an urn or what's commonly even becoming more common now, memorial stones. So little, little stones that are, are made from the, the cremains and a small amount of porcelain or ceramic rather. And then the only thing left is the liquid essence. And most families will take a small portion of that and use it as a fertilizer to fertilize plants in maybe in their house or in their garden. Garden maybe to help fertilize a tree that their loved one helped plant. And that liquid essence is just a beautiful way to return all those elements of the body back to the cycle of life in that form of a fertilizer. And it's a highly concentrated fertilizer. It's about a.1 tablespoon per gallon of water dilution. Rate.
- [32:29]
A
Health insurance is insane. You pay thousands of dollars every year, follow all the rules, and somehow when you actually get sick, they look at you like you just asked for a private jet and deny your claim. One in five Obamacare claims got rejected last year. One in five. It's like these companies are run by sadistic elves who get off on paperwork and disappointment. I talked to Andy. He's the CEO of crowd health a few episodes back on this show this past spring. He basically said, yeah, they make more money by screwing you and raising your premiums. I thought insurance was supposed to help people. Nope. It's a bureaucratic horror show that slowly erodes your soul. Crowd health is different. You get telemedicine, discounted prescriptions, a database of cash pay doctors. And by the way, I've said it a million times on the show, cash pay doctors are the best doctors. If you want somebody to get to the root cause of your issue, you got to do a cash pay doctor. Okay? Because those are your naturopaths. Those are your functional medicine doctors. They're not going to be in a regular insurance network. They're not. This is a community on crowd health that actually helps each other. Every single month, you fund someone else's medical needs. Needs. And when it's your turn, the crowd has your back. No networks, no corporate vampires, just humans helping humans. Let crowd health help with your health care needs. Also your baby needs. You want to have a home? Birth crowd health. Get started today for just 99 per month for your first three months by using code culture@joincrowdhealth.com Crowd health is not insurance. Go to joincrowdhealth.com that's joincrowdhealth.com Code culture. Gift giving stresses me out every year. I think I'm gonna be clever. I'm gonna put a little fart in a jar, put a little ribbon around it and, you know, somehow I end up just disappointing people with my gifts. I can't imagine why, but this year I discovered primally pure. And so it's like, you know, these people read my mind. I grabbed one of their gift bundles, like the body butter and lip oil set. It's perfect. This stuff is toxin free. Small batch actually works. You give it to somebody and it's not just a gift. It's basically a little spot in a box and totally non to sick. My cousin loves it. She keeps texting me about her skin and she's like, alex, wait, you weren't joking about this. No, I'm literally never joking. And I'm literally never wrong. Primly Pure also has a gift set of all their natural deodorants. You can try, you can mix and match, you can give them away, I mean whatever, no weird chemicals, just clean effective and you feel fancy giving it. The best part, Primally Pure is so thoughtful without being expensive or complicated. You do not have to stress, you don't have to worry about like which scent of something or color of something they're going to like. Because with these gift boxes and gift sets they've got options to mix and match and try and figure out what they like. Primally Pure is a Christian and conservative non toxic funded skincare company making products that are clean, intentional and honestly a joy to gift make somebody's holiday better. This year. Skip the garbage gifts that are just going into the trash anyway or making your friends and family sick. Give something that actually lasts. Go to primally pure.com use code Alex Clark. You will get 15% off your order. That's primally pure.com code Alex Clark for 15% off.
- [35:32]
How did we historically bury bodies in the United States? And have we changed things in recent years to get more toxic?
- [35:42]
B
It all started back with Abe Lincoln and the Civil War. So in the Civil War, the use of formaldehyde came into practice as a means of preserving the body of a soldier who has passed until it can make it back to its family. So to transport it back to a family, they would embalm out in the battlefield after a battle. They would take these dead soldiers and embalm them and then ship them back to their families. And it became even more popular after Abraham Lincoln was murdered in Washington D.C. and he was shipped across country back to Springfield, Illinois where he was from on a train. And everyone was asking, how does he still look? You know, as good as he looks, it's because he was embalmed.
- [36:37]
A
So we were always embalming bodies?
- [36:39]
B
Oh gosh, no, we were, we were burying our loved ones out in the back behind the house.
- [36:43]
A
Wow. Okay. This is so crazy. This is why I wanted to do this interview. I, I'm like, oh my gosh. The other thing is, when we are cremating bodies in America, what is that doing to the, to the water, to our soil? You know, the air that we're breathing, Is it negatively impacting all of us living in the same town?
- [37:04]
B
Certainly formaldehyde is a toxic chemical and that's going to be present in your local cemetery. You know, bodies are buried, they're typically in a casket inside a vault. So it can take years for that, that vault to break down. But ultimately those toxins are going to be in that, in that soil. If it happens to be near a water table, it might be impacted the water table as well.
- [37:31]
A
So when your kids are running through a sprinkler in the backyard in the middle of July, they could be running through dead bodies.
- [37:39]
B
You mean with the water source perhaps having gone through the cemetery? I suppose that's possible, yeah. I think the, the, the real disconnect that, that is unavoidable is the fact that, that the, these traditional methods of, of caring for decedents with, with toxic chemicals and using vaults and caskets, it's just generally bad for the environment. It's bad for mother Earth. It's, it's, and it's unnatural. And so regardless of your political, you know, disposition and perspective, it's just not good. And there's been a growing movement across the country for this relatively new practice called natural organic reduction, which is when a, a decedent is transformed into regenerative living soil in about two months. And it's now legal in 14 states and being considered for legalization in about another dozen states. And, and it doesn't matter what the, the political.
- [38:48]
Alignment is in each state. You know, it just became legal in Georgia earlier this year. And I talked to Cy Hume, who, he's CEO of a funeral home that's been serving folks in the greater Atlanta area for over 100 years. And I called him and I said, I said, sigh, I understand you were the one that really drove this legislation. I said, what was behind it? He said, the values of the people that we serve. He said, mike, I'm a Republican. The senator I got to sponsor this is a Republican. He said, but we're all tree huggers. We all, we all appreciate the earth and we want to take care of the earth.
- [39:27]
And we've got farmers that understand the value of composting and understand the value of, of returning, you know, bodies to, and, and you know, using all that comes from nature to foster new growth.
- [39:44]
A
Right.
- [39:44]
B
And that includes our bodies. Right. And so we call it termation. Then the legal term is natural organic reduction, but it's a process whereby a body is transformed back into soil. It starts in a vessel that completes in 28 to 33 days and then there's a 30 day period we call a curing period where that biologic process that broke down the body and converted into soil slows and then cools. And then we deliver the soil back to a family in 25 pound bags. And about a cubic yard of soil per. Per loved one.
- [40:19]
A
Explain how terramation works.
- [40:21]
B
So, termation is a process whereby a body is transformed into regenerative living soil. In 28 to 33 days. A body is placed into a custom vessel. We call it a chrysalis. You know, that thing that a caterpillar wraps around itself before it transforms into a butterfly. We call our device a chrysalis vessel. A body is placed on top of a bed of organics, things like straw and alfalfa and wood chips. And usually there's a service where a family will come and we perform what we call a laying in. And families will come and their. Their loved one is placed in, usually in a shroud on top of these organics. And they'll place flowers, other organics, in with their loved one. We had a native American man whose family put a salmon on top of him with berries and nuts. If it's once lived, it can go in. It can go in the vessel with your loved one. Then we seal the vessel and during a 28 to 33 day period, we monitor for the temperature, airflow in and airflow out, and then moisture in the vessel. And for moisture, we add a proprietary tea comprised of 25 different strains of bacteria and 15 very specific fungal spores. A lot of the bacteria are bacteria that we already have in our bodies. But adding more into this process helps accelerate what mother nature would Normally take about 20 days, 20 years to perform. Our process completes it in 28 to 33 days. And so at the end of the 28 to 33 days, there are only three things remaining inside the vessel. The bones of the decedent, any inorganics like pacemaker or knee, and then this absolutely gorgeous regenerative living soil. And at that point, we sift out the bones and we reduce them to powder. And then we place that powder back into the.
- [42:25]
Into the soil. And because the enamel has been removed from the outside of the bone, that calcium becomes readily available to that soil. And the soil just absorbs that calcium. And within 48 hours, there's no trace of bone anymore. We recycle the inorganics and then we let that soil rest for 30 days. It's a 30 day cure period. And then we return that soil to the family in 25 pound bags. And it's about 15 bags that's left after the end of a process.
- [42:58]
A
Okay, I love that. I think I like that one the best. Typically, families are using that soil to plant a guard, a flower garden or a tree or something. Yeah, yeah.
- [43:06]
B
Actually, we have There was one mother who lost her 20 year old son and she shared with me that she took some of the soil, put it in a small pot and has a plant in her bedroom now with the soil from her son. And he was really into, into nature and into farming and planting and she was thrilled to be able to allow him to return to the cycle of life in that, in that manner.
- [43:30]
A
What do conventional funeral directors think about you and what you do? Do they think this is crazy?
- [43:35]
B
There are four companies today in the country that offer termation and the Natural funeral is one of them. And the other three are building facilities around the country to allow consumers or, you know, families that lose loved ones to have their loved ones terminated. We've taken a different approach and we are empowering funeral homes that want to continue to serve the communities they've been serving for generations to be able to perform Tara mations themselves for these families. And I'll tell you, we've gotten a really warm reception and it's, it's because their client families are saying there's got to be another way. So there are more and more people realizing that these traditions of embalming and, you know, using a traditional casket and a vault, it just doesn't align with their values. In fact, the National Funeral Directors Associate association does an annual consumer survey and their most recent survey found that 68% of Americans surveyed would prefer a green funeral option if it were available.
- [44:54]
A
We're maha ing funerals.
- [44:56]
B
Yeah, there you go. That's it.
- [44:58]
A
We are, we are.
- [45:00]
B
We're making funerals natural again. Yeah, there you go.
- [45:03]
A
I love that when people say like, you know, this certified green funeral business, I mean this just is like a marketing buzzword, just, just, just, you know, siphon money off of people. What do you say?
- [45:13]
B
I'd say that's, that's not correct. It's actually a response to a demand, consumer demand for more eco friendly options at the end of life.
- [45:22]
A
Does it cost more or less to do it this way?
- [45:24]
B
A termination, a full termation service is about the same as a traditional burial.
- [45:29]
A
Okay.
- [45:30]
B
Could even be a little bit less depending on what cemetery you're buying a plot in. So the economics favor an eco friendly option. A flame cremation can be pretty inexpensive. If you don't really sort of don't care about who's caring for your loved one, you can get a very inexpensive flame cremation and just get ashes or, you know, cremains back when the process is done. That's certainly an option. But more and more Families these days are looking for participatory source services that are more eco friendly and allow their loved one to contribute to the cycle of life in a more meaningful way.
- [46:14]
A
I have this neighbor who drinks soup out of his shoes. Like literally dips his Chuck Taylor's in broth and slurps it. That is an unconventional way to eat. I don't want my food unconventional in how I eat it. I want my food unconventional in how it it's made. Because the standard American diet today is garbage. It's dead food. You might as well be chewing on the cardboard from a used Amazon box. That is why I love Paleo Valley Grass Fed organ Complex. This is an amazing supplement. It's a freeze dried blend of three grass fed organs packed with everything your body actually needs, delivered straight into your system without having to taste liver flavor. Most other organ powders or supplements are spray dried and they're lifeless. This preserves the nutrients like nature intended and they're using three different organs instead of just one. So this is way better than any other organ supplement on the market. So instead of turning into some nutrient deficient shoe soup drinking monster, you can actually get the real superfoods that your body craves. Make your diet unconventional in the right way. Go to paleovalley.com use code Alex for 15 off. That's paleovalley.com for 15 off with code Alex. Are you a guy or a girl? Well I sure hope so because this is not a liberal podcast. If you are a guy or a girl between the ages of 25 to 35, if you're anything like my friend, every night she's lying in bed like a zombie, scrolling through tick tock, panicking about taxes, the apocalypse and whether she left the stove on. She's tried everything, melatonin, weird teas, lavender eye masks, but nothing is working. Nothing. And so I sent her utsies strawberry magnositol powder and she said says it was the thing that worked like magic. It is a strawberry flavored magnesium powder. You can add it to any nighttime drink. Tastes delicious. It's so good for you and it helps you wind down. Half of Americans are magnesium deficient. Half. Okay. It is not your fault. Modern soil is completely depleted. You think I'm eating all these vegetables, what's going on? And it's like because the soil has no vitamins in it, you've got stress, you're, you're loaded up on caffeine, sugar, alcohol. These are all things that are siphoning magnesium out of your body. Like a vampire with a Day job. Uts. UTS formula isn't just magnesium. It is magnesium glycinate, the kind that literally calms your muscles and your mind. Plus inositol, which helps you actually relax instead of staring at the ceiling imagining horrific scenarios. My friend, she took it, she went to bed and for the first time in months slept like a human being instead of a panic stricken raccoon. And this matters when you got a newborn baby, which she has. If you're tired of feeling wired, jittery or tense, go to utsy.comutzy.com use code Alex to save on Magnolia. That's utsy.comutzy.Com code Alex on Magnosatol. Get the strawberry magnosol today.
- [48:54]
So if you could like in a couple sentences, explain why is embalming a bad idea?
- [49:00]
B
In essence, it's, it's not natural. It's not good for the environment. It's, it's, it's not good for the community that's supposedly being served by it. Now I, and I say this as someone that was a licensed apprentice embalmer. You know, we, that's what we did for years. And, and I want to be careful not to sort of disrespect the tradition of, of embalming. And, and there are, most of the, the people in the funeral industry are in there because they're heart centered and they want to do good and they want to serve families. And so it's more an awakening to the opportunity to do something more natural and that's better for the environment and, and also responds more closely to the values of the communities that these funeral homes are serving.
- [49:50]
A
Is it possible to find a green cemetery.
- [49:54]
B
Yeah.
- [49:54]
A
In someone's area even if the other services aren't available in their area. Does that make sense, what I'm asking?
- [49:59]
B
There aren't as many as I, I wish there were.
- [50:01]
A
Okay.
- [50:02]
B
But there are usually at least a handful of cemeteries in any given state that will allow for a green burial.
- [50:11]
A
And what does that mean, a green burial?
- [50:13]
B
Not embalming a body.
- [50:14]
A
Okay.
- [50:15]
B
Not using a traditional casket. So it's got to be a, a natural material casket, like a pine casket. And you don't use a vault. So those are the three. And usually it also means the grave is going to be more shallow.
- [50:30]
A
Well, I was going to ask you about the shallow graves. You brought this up before when we weren't embalming prior to Lincoln.
- [50:37]
B
Yeah.
- [50:37]
A
Were we doing shallow graves? And then the reason we're doing deep graves is because of embalming.
- [50:43]
B
It's not because of embalming, it's because the, it's usually tied to the use of a vault. So a vault is a cement box inside the cat, inside which a casket is placed and then the top of the vault gets put on there. And for the most part, a vault is used in cemeteries so that the land doesn't settle so that you can have these pristine flat cemeteries. Then they look really nice and they, you know, they, they're nice and even and.
- [51:16]
In many ways unnatural.
- [51:19]
A
You know what's crazy? You might have like one of the last career paths, paths that cannot be taken over by AI.
- [51:28]
B
That's. Yeah, that's interesting.
- [51:29]
A
I mean, I'm thinking of young people that listen to this show that are wondering what they want to do for a living. That's going to make good money. That's always going to be needed. Well, people are always going to die.
- [51:39]
B
Yeah.
- [51:40]
A
And then that isn't going to be replaced by AI. This is like a real fear that Gen Z and then Gen Alpha has is what career path can I even go in that's still going to exist in a few years with all of this technology? Because everyone's jobs are getting taken up by robots. Yeah, that your career path is one. I think you'd have to have a person doing it.
- [51:58]
B
Yes. But I would also suggest that the people entering end of life care, the funeral industry, the vast majority of folks that are doing it today do so not for the money. They do so because they want to serve families. They're dealing with people at probably the most difficult moments of their lives and to be able to listen to them, to hear about the story of this loved one that just passed, what their loved one's values were, and then to tailor a suite of services to provide a compassionate and respectful set of services to celebrate that person's life and to support the grief process of the family. I would hope that's what would bring people into the field. And of course you can make a living at it.
- [52:50]
A
And you know, do you think that we need to be burying pets in a similar way?
- [52:54]
B
I, I think there's an opportunity to, to do that. I think it to a great extent. Pets today are typically buried in the backyard. They're, you know, they're getting green burials already.
- [53:08]
A
One crazy story is that there was this other natural funeral home in Colorado. There was a big scandal. They found like over 189 bodies that, you know, authorities claimed weren't being taken care of properly, that the smells were horrible. It was like a horror Scene. How do you do your business differently? And, and also, you know, was this funeral home doing something wrong in your opinion, or is it just unconventional and to the outside world they just didn't understand.
- [53:35]
B
You can look across the country and you'll find stories of, of funeral homes doing bad things. And the one you're mentioning in Colorado is an example of that. They were absolutely doing the wrong thing. They were engaging with families, promising to care for their loved one and to perform flame cremations on, you know, on their loved one and then to provide cremains back to the, to the, the family. What they were doing was storing these bodies of their loved ones, decedents and not performing flame cremations, just storing them and providing something other than cremains back to families then claiming they were cremaines. These were people that were.
- [54:24]
A
This is fraud.
- [54:25]
B
These were licensed funeral directors doing this. It's fraud. And you can see it in any industry.
- [54:32]
It hits home extra hard when it's in the funeral industry because you've trusted someone with your loved one and that happens.
- [54:41]
In many states and unfortunately, there are bad apples in every batch. But I don't think that's indicative at all of the state of natural funerals. In fact, we, it's, it's contrary to what our core values are.
- [54:56]
A
Obviously you can't always plan for your death, but if possible, is planning a natural funeral ahead of time something that people should consider?
- [55:06]
B
Yeah, I think planning a funeral, regardless of what your, the services are that you're seeking is really valuable and important.
- [55:14]
A
Like if it's written in your will, you know, I prefer to, to be buried this way type of a thing.
- [55:18]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's certainly one way. Another way is to actually put a plan in place to buy the services ahead of time so that your family, at the time of your passing, they don't have to worry about that. It's, it's, it's already been decided upon. You've decided what you want done with you. You've probably even put a, maybe you've put a plan in place and paid for it, where.
- [55:41]
There'S what we call an advanced plan, already documented it and fund it. Many people are doing that. In fact, when, when we announced that we were doing terror mation, we had folks in their 30s coming to us putting advanced plans in place because they said, that's what I want done when I die. I want to return to the cycle of life. Yeah. And they want to make sure there's no question about it. But It's a real gift for someone to do, to put an advanced plan in place so that their loved ones aren't burdened with having to make a decision. If there are multiple children or siblings that have responsibility for making these decisions, they're not going to be arguing over it because you've already stated what you want. So it's a real gift to do that in advance.
- [56:28]
A
If people want to learn more about what you're doing in Colorado and your services that you offer, where can they go?
- [56:32]
B
Thenaturalfuneral.com Perfect. Tell them all about it.
- [56:36]
A
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be?
- [56:41]
B
I would encourage people to practice loving awareness. I think too often.
- [56:48]
You know, people aren't recognizing the connection that we all have to each other to the earth, and they're. They're not present. And. And if they are present, they're present with an absence of love and compassion. So I would encourage everyone to consider really stepping into being present, having an open heart and an open mind, being curious about what other people's perspectives are if they differ in opinion, find out why, find out where they're coming from. Get curious and do so with an open, loving heart. Heart. I think if we all do that well, we'll find ourselves to be much healthier.
- [57:34]
A
I think that's so beautiful. You have such a. A kind, peaceful spirit. You no doubt are made to do what you do and I'm sure are just such a comforting person to have around with these families in the worst time of their life. I know firsthand what that's like with everything I've been through in the last year. So I appreciate what you're doing. I love finding unique guests and topics for the show. I mean, what you're doing falls in the health and wellness umbrella, I think. Think. And it's something that I don't think you're going to hear on other health and wellness podcasts that this even exists or is it an option? I think people are feel weird to talk about this and I think it's so incredibly interesting, important and I like just learning something new. So I appreciate you coming here to Arizona and coming on Culture apothecary to share with us.
- [58:19]
B
Thanks, Alex. Thanks for your curiosity too. Yeah. And your appreciation.
- [58:26]
A
Obsessed with how unique this interview was and the topic itself. I really get a kick out of feeling like I learned something new when I interview people. Those are my absolute favorite episodes when I sit down with somebody and I genuinely do not know a thing, so I really had fun with this episode. I hope you did too. If you did, we'd love to see your five star review about it. Tell others why this is the number one health and wellness podcast. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture on Mondays and Thursdays at 6pm Pacific 9pm Eastern. Don't forget to subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube and follow the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary. You can find me at Real Alex Clark. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.