Does Cry It Out Damage A Child's Brain? | Dr. Daniel G. Amen, MD

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark – Episode Summary

Episode: Does Cry It Out Damage A Child's Brain? | Dr. Daniel G. Amen, MD
Release Date: May 30, 2025
Host: Turning Point USA – Alex Clark
Guest: Dr. Daniel G. Amen, MD
Duration: Approximately 60 minutes

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex engages in an enlightening conversation with Dr. Daniel G. Amen, a renowned psychiatrist, brain scan pioneer, and founder of the Amen Clinics. Dr. Amen’s groundbreaking work has revolutionized our understanding of brain behavior and emotional health. Together, they delve into a variety of topics spanning parenting techniques, mental health diagnoses, dietary impacts on the brain, and strategies for maintaining optimal brain health.

The "Cry It Out" Method and Child Brain Development

Cry It Out (CIO) Method:
Alex initiates the conversation by questioning the efficacy and potential harm of the "cry it out" sleep training method for infants. Dr. Amen offers a nuanced perspective:

"I think when they're really young you want to go, are they wet, are they hungry? And if they're not wet and not hungry, I think it's okay to not go rescue them so they can learn how to self soothe." [06:33]

Dr. Amen argues that CIO can be beneficial if applied correctly, allowing children to develop self-soothing mechanisms. However, he cautions against prolonged crying as it may indicate underlying issues such as ear infections or the need for parental attention.

Screen Time and Its Impact on Children's Brains:
The discussion shifts to the effects of screen time on young children. Dr. Amen strongly advises limiting screen exposure before the age of five or six:

"Development in children, they're dopamine destroyers... these things are addictive and they're created that way." [03:00]

He emphasizes that excessive screen time disrupts dopamine pathways, impairing the brain's pleasure centers and leading to addictive behaviors.

Daycare, Attachment, and Child Stress

Normalization of Daycare:
Alex probes whether the societal shift towards daycare has been detrimental to child development. Dr. Amen acknowledges the complexity:

"It's very stressful for children to constantly go from this place to that... it takes a toll on their development." [05:02]

He notes that while daycare can aid in social bonding, frequent transitions between caregivers can increase stress levels, potentially affecting emotional growth.

Attachment Issues and Emotional Resilience:
When addressing emotional challenges, Dr. Amen highlights the importance of fostering independence:

"If you do too much for a child, you build your self esteem by stealing theirs... competence feeds self esteem." [19:48]

He advocates for intentional parenting practices that encourage problem-solving and emotional resilience in children.

Discipline and Behavioral Management

Handling Aggressive Behaviors:
Dr. Amen discusses effective strategies for managing toddlers who exhibit hitting and biting:

"I'm a huge fan of rules... but there's also got to be some consequences. Simple, like time out whenever they do that." [05:46]

He underscores the necessity of establishing clear boundaries and consistent consequences to promote respectful behavior.

Avoiding Physical Aggression:
When asked about the impacts of spanking, Dr. Amen advises against it:

"Any physical aggression decreases the bond you have with a child... I'm a fan of timeout and natural consequences." [13:03]

He emphasizes that non-violent disciplinary methods foster healthier parent-child relationships and better emotional outcomes.

Mental Health Diagnoses in Children

Overdiagnosis of Bipolar Disorder:
A significant portion of the conversation addresses the potential overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder in children, possibly influenced by the pharmaceutical industry:

"I'm always very suspicious of children being diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I have seen... 340 million prescriptions for antidepressants without anybody ever looking at these people's brains." [08:53]

Dr. Amen advocates for thorough brain imaging and understanding underlying brain health issues before resorting to medication.

Association Between Head Trauma and Behavioral Disorders:
Exploring the link between brain injuries and behavior, Dr. Amen reveals:

"I published a study on murderers and we've scanned and treated over 150 murderers. They do not have healthy brains, especially in the front third of their brain." [11:00]

He highlights that head trauma, particularly to the frontal lobes, can significantly impair decision-making and increase violent behaviors.

Diet's Influence on Brain Health

Dietary Impact on Mental Health:
Dr. Amen elaborates on the profound impact of diet on brain health and the risk of dementia:

"People who had a fat-based diet... had 42% less risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. People who had a simple carbohydrate-based diet... had a 400% increased risk." [48:21]

He emphasizes adopting diets rich in healthy fats and proteins while minimizing processed carbohydrates to support cognitive functions and reduce Alzheimer's risk.

Ketogenic Diet for Epilepsy:
Addressing epilepsy treatment, Dr. Amen shares successful outcomes with dietary interventions:

"I have a granddaughter with epilepsy and she responded beautifully to the ketogenic diet... decreasing seizure frequency by more than 50%." [52:17]

Technological Impacts on the Brain

Video Game and Screen Addiction:
Dr. Amen expresses concern over the addictive nature of modern video games and their effect on children's dopamine centers:

"Less activity in the dopamine centers of the brain... addicted to their phones, addicted to these video games." [22:31]

He warns that overstimulation can desensitize pleasure centers, leading to increased risks of ADHD and reliance on medications like Ritalin.

Social Media and AI Concerns:
Discussing broader technological influences, Dr. Amen praises policies like Australia's social media ban for minors and stresses the lack of long-term neuroscience studies on AI's impact.

"We're unleashing this technology without any long term neuroscience study. Australia banned social media for kids under 16... California, you cannot start public high school before 8:30 in the morning." [24:07]

Strategies for Maintaining Brain Health

Holistic Brain Health Approach:
Dr. Amen introduces an acronym encompassing 11 major risk factors for brain health, emphasizing a holistic approach:

"Get your body as healthy as it can be and your memory will be better. M is retirement and aging... H is head trauma... T is toxins." [47:24]

He advocates for addressing factors like diet, exercise, sleep, and mental health to prevent cognitive decline.

Managing Panic Attacks:
Offering practical advice, Dr. Amen explains techniques to overcome panic attacks without reliance on benzodiazepines:

"Do diaphragmatic breathing... write down what thoughts you're having, correct them... do not take Xanax or Valium." [39:54]

He emphasizes natural methods to regulate breathing and challenge negative thoughts.

Sleep Hygiene:
Highlighting the critical role of sleep, Dr. Amen connects adequate rest to brain detoxification:

"Sleep is probably the single most mental health strategy because when you get good sleep your brain cleans and washes itself." [25:45]

He supports later school start times to enhance sleep quality among children.

Brain Health in Relationships and Society

Impact of Breakups on the Brain:
Dr. Amen discusses how emotional trauma from breakups can increase vulnerability to depression:

"Your emotional brain flares because it can't find the person you're attached to. It makes you more vulnerable to depression." [27:50]

He advises caution in romantic relationships to safeguard emotional well-being.

Compatibility in Relationships:
Exploring how brain health influences romantic compatibility, Dr. Amen notes:

"If your frontal lobes work too hard, you're going to want things your way... Knowing your brain's functioning helps understand relationship dynamics." [35:22]

He suggests brain scans can offer insights into potential relationship challenges.

Reversing Mental Health Conditions

OCD Reversal:
Dr. Amen affirms that Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) can be reversed, sometimes attributing it to infections such as strep:

"Sometimes OCD is the result of an infection... antibodies attack a part of your brain called the basal ganglia." [43:28]

He underscores the importance of treating underlying causes to alleviate OCD symptoms.

Treating Epilepsy with Diet:
Reiterating the effectiveness of dietary interventions, Dr. Amen shares:

"Dr. Amen’s granddaughter responded beautifully to the ketogenic diet, decreasing seizure frequency by more than 50%." [52:17]

Celebrity Insights and Personal Stories

Impactful Celebrity Cases:
Dr. Amen shares his experiences treating high-profile individuals, illustrating the practical application of his methods:

• Miley Cyrus:

  "I often tell Miley I was a complete failure for eight years and a wild success for six. She gets it, gives it away, lives it." [55:32]

• Justin Bieber:

  "He was actually diagnosed with Ramsay Hunt and bipolar disorder... he had Lyme disease and his brain was really low in activity. Eight months later it was dramatically better." [56:06]

These anecdotes highlight the transformative potential of targeted brain health strategies.

Concluding Thoughts and Recommendations

National Brain Health Initiative:
Dr. Amen advocates for a national movement to prioritize brain health, aiming to replace the stigmatized term "mental illness" with "brain health issues":

"Call these things what they really are, brain health issues, and then work to have a brain healthy society. That's how we tackle this mental health epidemic." [35:26]

Book Recommendations:
For listeners interested in diving deeper, Dr. Amen recommends:

• Parenting: "Raising Mentally Strong Kids"
• General Brain Health: "Change Your Brain Every Day" – a compilation of his most impactful insights.

Follow Dr. Amen:
Listeners are encouraged to connect with Dr. Amen on Instagram (@docamen) and TikTok (@docamen) for ongoing brain health tips and updates.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Get your children's brains healthy, their minds will follow." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [02:03]

• "These things are addictive and they're created that way." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [03:00]

• "Any physical aggression decreases the bond you have with a child." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [13:10]

• "The brain isn't finished until you're about 25." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [26:40]

• "Chronic negativity, chronic catastrophizing, just puts you at great risk for anxiety disorders and mental health challenges." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [39:12]

• "Benzos are not great medications because they hurt people." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [41:54]

• "Aging well isn't luck, it's strategy." – Alex Clark [Various Ads, Skipped]

• "Competence feeds self esteem." – Dr. Daniel G. Amen [19:48]

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Conclusion

This episode of Culture Apothecary offers invaluable insights into the intricate relationship between parenting practices, diet, mental health, and overall brain wellness. Dr. Daniel G. Amen provides evidence-based strategies and emphasizes the importance of proactive brain health management. Whether you're a parent, educator, or simply interested in optimizing your mental well-being, the discussions in this episode serve as a comprehensive guide to fostering a healthier, more resilient society.

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Note: Advertisements and promotional segments interspersed within the transcript have been omitted to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Alex Clark and Dr. Daniel G. Amen.

Transcript

[Alex Clark]

Is the cry it out sleep method for babies actually hurting their brains? Is it possible to reverse epilepsy? And what can we tell from the brain scans of a couple that fights a lot? These are the topics that I got to sit down and chat about with one of the most influential voices in mental health, Dr. Daniel Amen. He's a psychiatrist, brain scan pioneer, and the founder of the Amen Clinics. And his work has completely changed the way that we understand the brain behavior and emotional health. We get into everything from parenting and trauma to relationships, memory, anxiety, and even how your. Your diet might be making you more irritable. This is one of those episodes you're going to think about for a long time and probably send to a few people you care about. Now, I will preface this by saying it is virtual. So we do 99.9% of all of our interviews in person here at my studio in Phoenix, Arizona. But Dr. Amen is. Well, Dr. Amen, so he was not able to come in person. He did offer us generously to do a virtual, so we took it. So that might be why it sounds just a hair different, although I think the quality is pretty good. So that just is a little preface there so that you kind of understand what you're getting into. If you are new here or you are a longtime cuteservative, please leave a five star review. Tell others why they should start listening to Culture Apothecary more often. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture twice a week, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Make sure you join the Cuteservatives Facebook group for more discussion after the show. Please welcome Dr. Amen to Culture Apothecary. What is the most simple reason we have an epidemic of mentally weak children?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, I think parents do too much while at the same time babysit them with devices, give them low quality food and put toxic products on their bodies. And ultimately it's biologically making them vulnerable, their brain's vulnerable psychologically, not allowing them to solve their own problems. And nobody really thinks about it from a brain health standpoint, but that's my whole life. Get your brain healthy, your mind will follow. Get your children's brains healthy, their minds will follow.

[Alex Clark]

Would you advise parents to avoid screens before 2 years old at all costs?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

What have you seen? When it comes to screens and brain.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Development in children, they're dopamine destroyers. When the iPhone first came out, 2007, my first grandchild, when he got a hold of the phone, he was like nine months old. That's all he wanted. Was the phone. And people didn't know better then. I mean, I did. I was really irritated with my children, like, take that away from him. And every time I saw him pop up phone, pop up phone, and I'm like, these things are addictive and they're created that way. And so I think the more you can say no to screen time, the better their brains will develop.

[Alex Clark]

Is there a cutoff? Like, you should not let any child look at an iPad before this age.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I would push it off until they're five or six. That if you're using them as a babysitter, ultimately they're going to be babies longer.

[Alex Clark]

Speaking of babysitting, was normalizing daycare for babies one of the biggest mistakes we've made in modern society?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's a really interesting question. I think when other people are watching your children, they're not generally going to be as invested as you are. Yet our society here in California, where I live, 90% of moms work outside the house just because it was so expensive to live here. And it's like, so what do you do? You try to find the best care for them that is possible.

[Alex Clark]

What is your first thought when a mom tells you that her toddler used to scream and cry the entire time at daycare, drop off, and then suddenly they're willingly going into the arms of the daycare worker?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, if they're starting to bond with the daycare worker and so they're less upset. But it's very stressful for children to constantly go from this place to that. And then if you add divorce in there, where they're going to this house, that house and daycare, you can just see the stress is not great for their development. I think it would probably be a sign that they're beginning to attach to their other caregivers as well, which I would see as a good sign, not a bad sign.

[Alex Clark]

What do you think is the best way to deal with a toddler who's constantly hitting and biting?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, I'm like, a huge fan of rules. It's like, I think society has rules, and one of the rules is we treat each other with respect, which means no hitting, kicking, biting. I think the child's nervous system is just not regulated properly. And so I would be looking at things like, what are they eating, how are they sleeping? What's the level of stress in the house? I would be asking why. But there's also got to be some consequences. Simple, like time out whenever they do that, because it's important for them to.

[Alex Clark]

Learn not to how do you feel about the cry it out method?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So I think when they're really young you want to go, are they wet, are they hungry? And if they're not wet and not hungry, I think it's okay to not go rescue them so they can learn how to self soothe. Now, if it's going on a really long time for me, I wonder, did they have an ear infection? Is there something else? If it's just to get your attention, well, you're not going to be able to sleep, which means you're not going to be healthy and ultimately that's worse.

[Alex Clark]

So the people who are really anti cried out method, their claims is that babies are incapable of self soothing, that it's damages the brain to leave them there to cry. So would you disagree with that?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I would because babies are capable and the first night they may cry for three hours, the next night it's an hour and a half and then it's an hour and then it's a half an hour. You have to be careful what you reward. And if you let them cry for three hours and then you go get them, you've just taught them that they need to cry for three hours. It's very important to encourage a child's nervous system to manage it.

[Alex Clark]

What are the best ways a parent can support a child with bipolar disorder?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, one, make sure that's an accurate diagnosis. We usually don't diagnose it in children. I'm always very suspicious of children being diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Wonder a little bit if it's made up by the pharmaceutical industry. I've been a child psychiatrist for 45 years and it's a very rare diagnosis. Did they have a concussion? Do they have an infection? What is really the underlying mechanism for bipolar disorder in a child?

[Alex Clark]

Why do you think it might be a overused diagnosis by the pharmaceutical industry?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, because I witnessed it, you know, I sort of went through that period of time where, oh, a child is emotionally dysregulated, so they must have bipolar disorder. So here, take this antipsychotic medicine that we use to treat bipolar disorder. And I'm like, we need to slow this thing down. What we do at Amen clinics, I have 11 clinics around the United States, we do brain imaging work and there's a pattern that goes with bipolar disorder. But our first thought is never take this medicine. It's why does your brain look inflamed and what can we do to calm it down naturally? Now if you need to be on medicine, we'll put you on medicine. But psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who virtually never look at the organ they treat. So just think about that for a second. Last year, there were 340 million prescriptions for antidepressants without anybody ever looking at these people's brains. And I just personally think that's insane. And when you look, you realize it's not a mental health disorder. Think of bipolar, that's a mental illness. And I'm like, what's going on in their brain? Because they're not mental disorders. Ultimately, they're brain health issues.

[Alex Clark]

And where do brain health issues come from?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They can be genetic. They can come from toxic exposure, they can come from the food we eat. They can come from concussions. You know, I often talk about, I think bipolar disorder is over diagnosed and often it's the result of an underlying head injury that people didn't take seriously enough.

[Alex Clark]

Is it a real thing that a lot of serial killers had head injuries as a child?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You bet.

[Alex Clark]

What's the correlation with that? Why would that cause, like sadistic, violent behavior?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, if you damage the brain, you know, your brain makes you who you are. Your brain is the organ of intelligence, character, and every decision you make. And if you damage it, you damage your ability to make good decisions over time. And I published a study on murderers and we've scanned and treated over 150 murderers. They do not have healthy brains, especially in the front third of their brain, often significantly or seriously lower than other people. And 91% of people who have concussions have damage to their frontal lobes.

[Alex Clark]

What is the best way to set boundaries for kids who keep getting out of their beds at night?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know, I wrote a book called Time for Bed sleepyhead because my 3 year old, who I was completely bonded to, just kept getting out of bed. And one night I got really stern with her and it made me feel so bad. I did a hypnotic bedtime story with her and put her to sleep every night. In fact, she wanted me to tell her that story for years. I think it's important that families have rules. And a rule I like is do what mom and dad say the first time. And if they don't, there's a consequence to that. Now, it's always rational and reasonable, but it's like, no, you need to stay in bed. And what age are we talking about?

[Alex Clark]

Oh, I'm sure at that age you're looking at 4, 5, 6 years old is probably who they're thinking of.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah. So it's like, look, you really need to do this or there are going to be consequences tomorrow.

[Alex Clark]

Have you ever seen in brain scans negative effects on the brain done by spanking as a child?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of spanking because, you know, any physical aggression decreases the bond you have with a child. There are too many potential side effects of it. I'm a fan of timeout. I'm a fan of natural consequences, not a fan of spanking.

[Alex Clark]

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[Dr. Daniel Amen]

There's an exercise in my book. I have a new book out called Raising Mentally Strong Kids. And my one of my favorite exercises is special time. 20 minutes a day, do something with your child that your child wants to do. And during that time, no commands, no questions, no directions. It's just time to be together. And it's like gold that it's not a lot of time, but it's consistent time on a regular basis that helps solidify the bond between you and the child. And if during that time you practice what I call active listening, where you don't talk a lot, you just basically listen and repeat back what they say to you, the bond becomes stronger. And you know, with 90% of moms working outside the home, they often feel so guilty they end up doing way too much for their kids. And this way it's like, look, I have time every day, your time. And it doesn't have to be a lot, but being consistent is magical.

[Alex Clark]

Why should the rate at which the United States performs C sections greatly alarm us?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

C sections do not allow the baby to go through the birth canal. And that means the baby's microbiome. The hundred trillion bugs in the baby's gut is not going to get populated in the most healthy way, which is going through birth naturally. So in my mind, that's one of the biggest risks. Not to mention the surgery for the moment.

[Alex Clark]

How can you decipher hyperactivity in a child from just kids being kids?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So 30% of 3 year olds are hyperactive. Only about 5 to 10% of 4 year olds are hyperactive. So sometimes being hyperactive is just a developmental delay. Sometimes it's the food they eat. I'm so happy that RFK Jr just banned red dye number 40. If you have a hyperactive child, the first thing to go is, what am I feeding that child? And if you take away some of the ultra processed foods, you just can't believe the number of kids whose behavior gets better. Plus your behavior gets better if you stop eating them. And so I think that's the first thing. And I don't think ADHD should be diagnosed before for unless it's really by a child psychiatrist who's an expert.

[Alex Clark]

Are we unintentionally training kids to be emotionally fragile by overprotecting them from stress?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Absolutely. If you do too much for a child, you build your self esteem by stealing theirs. That self esteem comes from your ability to solve problems, from your ability to contribute. If you're always doing things for them, they're not developing a sense of competence. And competence feeds self esteem.

[Alex Clark]

You know who Jonathan Haidt is, right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I do.

[Alex Clark]

He's kind of started this independence challenge and he's been encouraging parents, you know, let your child 5, 6, 7 years old, whatever, something that you think emotionally they're capable of doing, do it on their own. So going into a restaurant or a small bakery, getting something, ordering it, coming outside to you by themselves, things like that. And this has really divided parents on the Internet. Half of them are up in arms. If I saw a child go into Chick Fil a by themselves to buy a smoothie, even if his mom was outside, I would call cps. Yes. And then you have the parents that are like, I love this idea. I'm going to encourage my kid at the ball game to walk to the concession sign, walk to the concession stand by himself and come back to me and kind of learn how to do something on his own. Where do you fall in this camp?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I love that. Let's help them be competent. But while they're walking to the concession stand, make sure you have your eyes on them so that somebody doesn't grab the kid. Right. You always have to have enough anxiety. You don't give them free rein. But the more they can do on their own, the more competent they're going to be. Doing Too much for child is bad for the child.

[Alex Clark]

Can a child's diet in the first five years predict their mental health at 25?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your diet at any age is going to predict your future. I mean, just look at corn dogs. They have 29 ingredients, and most of them you wouldn't recognize as food. And it used to be when I was growing up, maybe you go out to eat twice a month, and now people go out to eat twice a day or more. And so the food in fast food is just loaded with poisons. And I think we have to be so thoughtful that I think one of the reasons we have more autoimmune disorders is people are eating more Taco Bell and places like that.

[Alex Clark]

What do the brain scans show of those children exposed to chronic screen time?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So less activity in the dopamine centers of the brain, so the pleasure centers in the brain become less responsive over time. If you hit them over and over and over with video games and phones and iPads, you just wear them out. And it's sort of like we've thrilled their pleasure centers to death, and we should be very worried about it. And I sort of figured it out in 1987. My son was in sixth grade and getting great grades. And then Atari came out with the first video games. And. And I saw they just stole his attention. And then we started fighting about it. And I'm like, no, no, no, we're not fighting about it. And the video games left the house. He said, when are they coming back? I said, I don't think they're ever coming back. And I have seen this since then accelerate to these incredible 3D video games that kids get clearly addicted to. So addicted to their phones, addicted to these video games. And then you wonder why this dramatic increase in ADHD and the use of Ritalin and Adderall, which, for the right people, they're miraculous medications, but not when it's environmentally induced add.

[Alex Clark]

Well, these kids, some of them are so addictive, they're peeing in, you know, like, water bottles and stuff so they don't have to get up from their gaming seat. I've talked to Dr. Nicholas Cardaras about this before, and his specialty is video game addiction in children. And he said that that was an epidemic. He noticed they all had Gatorade bottles and stuff filled with pee. Cause no, they're so addicted, they can't even take two minutes to have a bathroom break.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, no, if I'm the parent, we're not having that in our house. There is not anything good about that developmentally for their brains. And then we have to wonder what AI is going to do to their brain. I mean it's not going away. So we have to, you know, figure out how to use it. But, but I'm very worried because we're unleashing this technology, video games, cell phones, without any long term neuroscience study. And Australia banned social media for kids under 16. I love that it's taking what we know in neuroscience that exposure to social media is harmful for children and teenagers and turning it into public policy. California, you cannot start public high school before 8:30 in the morning. And I love that because it's taking what we know in neuroscience and turning it in to public policy.

[Alex Clark]

What does neuroscience tell us about the ideal start time for elementary school kids?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So it's probably the same, it's probably 8:30 or 9:00 clock because, and it's why I've been a fan for a long time of homeschool, because the one thing, the one huge benefit of home school is not everybody has to get up at 6:00 and you know, mom can sleep later, dad can sleep later, the kids can sleep later. And sleep is probably the single most mental health strategy because when you get good sleep your brain cleans and washes itself and if you don't sleep it turns off 700 health promoting genes.

[Alex Clark]

Do you think in America we focus too much on milestones when it comes to kids under 7 years old as opposed to championing play and what that does for brain development?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Probably, you know, I, I worry that people go, I have to get them into the best preschool because if they don't then they won't get into the right college. And prestige is a French word that means deceit. I'm a huge fan of community colleges because I don't think it's a good idea to send an 18 year old who has an underdeveloped brain. Right. The brain isn't finished until you're about 25. So take an 18 year old brain, put it with a bunch of other underdeveloped brains and fraternities or sororities where alcohol and free sex are rampant. And I just think that's a dumb idea. So I'm a huge fan, especially with vulnerable kids, keeping them close to home. And I think community colleges are completely underrated. They often have better teachers, smaller class size, gifts, people, foundation at a fifth of the cost and parents can supervise them.

[Alex Clark]

Does Going through a traumatic breakup damage the brain?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, you know, I think it depends on what you do with the breakup. Breakups are hard. They're hard on the brain. Humans are meant to attach. And so when you fall in love with somebody, they live in every sort of fun place in your brain. And then for whatever reason, often it's a brain health reason. You break up. And then that is one of the most vulnerable mental health times ever. Because the amount of depression and suicide go way up. If it was a breakup that you didn't want, and you know, that's why in the news it's not unusual to see murder suicides around breakups. What happens is your emotional brain flares because it can't find the person you're attached to. And that makes you more vulnerable to depression. So be very careful with who you sleep with.

[Alex Clark]

How does pornography rewire the male brain and what sorts of negative behavior patterns can it create later in life if you see it too soon?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, there are a lot of eight and nine year olds that are having access to pornography and that will decrease the development of their frontal lobes. It's almost like they're using drugs early. It's going to dump dopamine. When you dump dopamine, you wear out the pleasure centers in the brain, which means it's going to take more and more for you to feel anything at all. And then you're going to have these very unrealistic expectations when you know you get into your own relationships. Early pornography is going to go to early sex. Early sex puts you at risk for all sorts of bad things, from teenage pregnancy to sexually transmitted diseases, to anxious attachments. And then you're not going to know what's normal, what's right. And there's very little good sex education in the world.

[Alex Clark]

You ever feel like your food is controlling you? Grocery prices skyrocket, the fridge is always empty and suddenly you're stressed over every meal. My solution, a harvest right freeze dryer. AKA my ticket to food freedom. So now when I cook something I love, like, I don't know, my favorite chili or a big batch of curry, I just freeze dry it and store it and it's there for me whenever. No scrambling, no preservatives, no stress. You can even do this with scrambled eggs. You can pack freeze dried snacks for road trips and last minute lunches. It's like creating a personal food bank that only stocks your favorite dishes and the food stays good for up to 25 years. Seriously, forget feeling reactive about food. Take back control and prep on your terms, visit harvestright.com that's harvestright.com Food freedom starts now. Let's talk about movie snacks. You walk in with good intentions and next thing you know you're elbow deep in a greasy bucket of popcorn that tastes like plastic and gives you a stomach ache. Before the previews are even over, I started bringing Masa chips to the movies and this is my favorite little life hack. Also, anybody who thinks it's weird to go to the movies by yourself, kiss my behind. I love going to the movies by myself. Love it when there's a good movie out, which doesn't happen often and I'm getting a tangent and wasting my ad time. Sorry Masa, but Masa chips are not just any chips. Masa is seed oil free and made the way chips used to be made back when people cooked with beef tallow, not industrial waste. They used three ingredients. Organic nixtamalized corn, grass fed and finished beef tallow, and Redmond sea salt. That's it. No citric acid, no natural flavors, no fake vitamins glued on in a lab. And let's talk taste. Masa is bold. It's crunchy, it's sturdy and real. Not fake flavored or coated in orange mystery dust. They're made by 2Real humids, the Olive Oil Queen and the really Tan man, who literally started this because they knew that they could make a better snack without seed oils or chemicals. So now they're changing the whole chip game out of a tiny operation in New Jersey. I love that. I've tried every flavor. I can confidently say they're worth it. If you want your snack game to feel a little more ancestral and a lot more delicious, head to masachips.com use code real Alex Clark for 20% off your first order. That's masachips.com code real Alex Clark for 20% OFF your first order. Why is it that one person in the relationship might be more prone to conflict than the other?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I wrote a book called Healing ADD and there's a chapter in it called the Games ADD People Play. And the first game they play is let's have a problem because they have lower frontal lobe function and it's completely unconscious. They don't choose it at all, but they pick on other people. They just like poke at them just to get them mad. And you see it with little ADD kids. If he has a bad morning at home, like mom yells a lot, he has a good day at school because she was worth 10 milligrams of Ritalin. They have a good morning at home he has a bad day at school because he didn't sort of get his conflict fix. I've seen it a lot in relationships where they play this game of let's have a problem because that is stimulating to them. And in a way it's sort of medication for them. And I always tell the people who are married to people have add, if they hand you the rope, just don't pick it up. Be really thoughtful in how you respond and then encourage them to get evaluated and treated.

[Alex Clark]

What does that mean, get evaluated and treated?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Like go see a doctor to see, do you really have this? And if you do, get help for it. But you can have conflict from low activity in your frontal lobes, so let's have a problem. Or if you have high activity in a part of the frontal lobes called the anterior cingulate gyrus, that's the brain's gear shifter. It allows you to go from thought to thought, move from idea to idea, be flexible, go with the flow. And when that part of your brain works too hard, if things don't go your way, you get upset. You tend to be argumentative, oppositional, and you hate surprises. And so you find yourself often in a fight with them because you didn't know what was in their head, you didn't act the way they wanted you to act, and all of a sudden they're mad at you. And so it can happen from too low activity, impulsivity, conflict driven behavior, or too high activity, rigid thinking. Things don't go the way they expect, they get upset. And on the surface it appears selfish, but it's not selfish, it's rigid. And so in my house, if you date one of my children for more than four months, I scan you because I want to know what kind of partner you're going to be. And if you're, if your brain could use help, I'm like, okay, let's help your brain work better.

[Alex Clark]

What can you tell on somebody's brain scan about the type of partner they'll be?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, so if you came and I scanned you and you had really low frontal lobes, then your impulse control is not going to be great. So decision making won't be what you hope it will be. If your frontal lobes work too hard, then it's like you're going to want things your way. And just knowing that is so helpful. We never look at the organ that makes us happy in ourselves or other people. I mean, wouldn't you want to know? And then wouldn't you want it to be as good as it could be? See, everybody hates the term mental illness. Nobody wants one. You call somebody mental, it shames you. But everybody wants a better brain. Call them a brain, it elevates you. And I'm working to create a national brain health initiative to get rid of the term mental illness. Call these things what they really are, brain health issues, and then work to have a brain healthy society. Because with a brain healthy society, that's how we tackle this mental health epidemic.

[Alex Clark]

So if somebody wants to get a brain scan because they're just curious, you know, I wonder what I am, what do they do? Ask their doctor. I want to get an elective MRI or something.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

We do a study called SPECT that looks at blood flow and activity. It looks at how your brain works and it basically tells us three things. Good activity, too little or too much in every area of your brain. And then we target treatment to better balance your brain. So we do a study called spect. There are other studies. Not an mri. Not helpful. Quantitative EEG either. Spect, pet. Quantitative EEG would be the most useful.

[Alex Clark]

Is it possible to fall in love with somebody whose brain is incompatible with yours all the time.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I mean, divorce courts are filled, right? And attorneys make a whole bunch of money off of them. You know, when you fall in love, you're looking at how the person looks, how they sound, how they smell, how they feel. And it's very rare. You're actually thinking, is this going to be a good long term partner for me? Do I feel good around this person? Do they understand me? Do we have fun together? They're looking for their toes to tingle when that's a sign it's probably going to be difficult in your relationship.

[Alex Clark]

Do some people pick the wrong partner simply because of unresolved brain trauma?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes. And they pick it because of unresolved emotional trauma. Just thinking of this person that I'm very fond of whose brother was a drug addict and she couldn't save him and so she ended up picking someone else who was a drug addict and tried to save him in large part because she was trying to fill a hole in her own soul.

[Alex Clark]

Do you see resentment on brain scans?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No, but I see grudge holding.

[Alex Clark]

I would be guilty. I would light up on that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

People get their feelings hurt and they just can't let it go. That's usually too much activity in the front part of their brain.

[Alex Clark]

What does it mean to chronically catastrophize and how does that impact the brain?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's very bad for your brain. I just published a study on negativity bias. Does your brain tend to go to what's wrong, or do you tend to to see what's right? And if your brain constantly goes to the negative, it is associated with decreased activity in large parts of your frontal lobes. And I do positivity bias training with my patients because chronic negativity, chronic catastrophizing, just puts you at great risk for anxiety disorders and mental health challenges. Challenges.

[Alex Clark]

Is it possible to train your body to stop having panic attacks?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Absolutely. I think it's one of the easiest things to do whenever you have a panic attack. Number one, don't leave. Because if you leave the situation you're in, like it's party or you're at the grocery store, that situation will now start to control you, and your world will ultimately get smaller and smaller. There's this condition we treat called agoraphobia, where you just end up being afraid to leave your house, and so don't leave. The second thing is breathe, because when you have a panic attack, your breathing becomes shallow and fast. And so we teach our patients diaphragmatic breathing, which basically means breathing from your belly. And pretty women hate this because they're always holding their bellies in. But it's when you breathe in, stick your belly out. And when you breathe out, stick it in and breathe in. This pattern, four seconds in, big breath, eight seconds out. So take twice as long to breathe out as you breathe in. And if you just do that six, eight times, sends a relaxation signal to your brain to calm down. Very powerful. And then write down what thoughts you're having. I call it killing the ants. The automatic negative thoughts that steal your happiness, and it's often catastrophic. Thoughts that drive the panic attack, and so write them down, correct them. I call it killing the ants and talk about that in all my books. And then if you're still anxious, do not take Xanax or Valium or Klonopin. It's the worst thing you can do.

[Alex Clark]

Wait, why?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Once you start that, you're not going to stop it. Very important. They're addictive and they increase your risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. So be really clear. Benzos are not great medications because they hurt people.

[Alex Clark]

Radicalize us on why we need to stop drinking alcohol.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, the American Cancer Society said you shouldn't drink because it increases your risk of seven different types of cancer. Alcohol is not a health food. Alcohol is a disinfectant. We already talked about the microbiome where you have 100 trillion bugs in your gut. You do not want to be drinking a disinfectant plus, there's not a week that has gone by in my 45 years as a psychiatrist where alcohol hasn't devastated someone's life, caused them to have an affair, an accident, they said something that their wife still thinks about 10 years later. It's like, I just don't get it. It's like, well, how can you have any fun? And it's like, well, who has more fun, the person with the healthy brain or the person with the unhealthy brain? It's like, well, I'm more fun. It's like, well, you're more fun, but as soon as you stop drinking and you hang out with people who are drinking, I can guarantee you those people are not more fun.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. Can OCD be reversed?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes. And sometimes OCD is the result of an infection. There's something called Panda syndrome, Pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with strep infections that sometimes OCD causes antibodies that go attack your heart valves. That's why you have to treat strep infections so you don't get rheumatic fever. But they also go and attack a part of your brain called the basal ganglia and can trigger ocd.

[Alex Clark]

Do you have concerns with people who cannot fall asleep unless they're listening to a movie or a podcast in headphones?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know, it's. It's not generally the right thing to do in that you'll continue to listen and that will be disruptive to your brain. But many people have add need noise on to shut up their own brain so they can go to sleep. And so they might sleep with the TV on or a fan, and it just irritates their partner to no end.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so my co worker recently hosted a couple of overnight guests, and she's the type who likes to go all out and leave a little welcome surprise for them in the guest room. Now, I know a lot of people just leave bottled water or some granola bars, but she's a little extra in the best way. So she left Paleo Valley beef sticks in their room for a snack after hearing about them on culture apothecary. You know those times when you wake and you're starving but you don't want to raid the fridge? That's where Paleo Valley beef sticks come in. They're made with 100% grass fed beef. No hormones, no antibiotics, and absolutely no weird preservatives. And the best part is they're naturally fermented, which means you get gut friendly probiotics with every bite. And these aren't your average gas station jerky sticks. They're packed with high quality protein, they taste way better, and they're totally free from seed oils, pesticides and chemicals. When my friend's guest woke up, they had the perfect healthy snack waiting for them whenever they needed it. And they loved it. So if you want to step up your snack game, head to paleovalley.com Alex use code ALEX for 15% off. That's paleovalley.com Alex with code ALEX for 15% off your first purchase. Your guests deserve better snacks. A while back, I was that person who thought natural skincare was a joke. Like I would like something that actually works. Please. I'm not interested in, you know, rubbing tub of wumba leaves and camel spit on my face because it's natural. But then, thank God, I found Primally Pure and everything changed. This stuff works. And it's not because they're just slapping labels on it that say natural like it's some magic bullet. No. Do I look like I would use something that doesn't work? I don't have the time. Honey, you should look at my schedule. Primally Pure's ingredients come from actual ancestral wisdom. And the secret weapon is beef tallow. It's packed with fatty acids that are actually super similar to the oils in our own skin. But it isn't just like a tub of beef tallow because I will not use that, okay? This is non comedogenic.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's.

[Alex Clark]

It's not clogging my pores. It's mixed with other natural healthy ingredients that actually work and heal skin. I mean, this is luxury skin care, okay? It's nourishing your skin in a way that all those other products just can't. Especially the beef tallow crap people are making in their kitchens. I am talking real, actual results. And trust me, I wouldn't be telling you this if it wasn't working. I've tried everything under the sun, okay? I cannot recommend the almond and vanilla body wash from Primally Pure enough. Their bergamot and eucalyptus scent is a great non toxic alternative for men. If you're thinking about switching to cleaner, non toxic skincare there, check out the thousands of five star reviews on primarily Pure.com, the plumping serum. I've gotten all my friends on it. We are all believers. Once you're ready to make some simple swaps, use code alex [e-mail] you'll get 15 off. That's primally pure.com code Alex Clark and you will get 15 off your first order. What is science saying about ways to reverse early onset dementia?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You want to keep your brain healthy or rescue it. You have to prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors that steal your mind. So the new medications that are like $27,000 a year are not nearly as effective as exercise. Getting your blood sugar healthy, getting sleep apnea treated. I have an acronym for those 11 risk factors. Ultimately get your body as healthy as it can be and your memory will be better.

[Alex Clark]

And am I wrong in that eggs play a big part?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I'm a huge fan of eggs because they have no carbohydrates, they help stabilize your blood sugar, they're loaded with healthy fat. And eating things with cholesterol does not give you high cholesterol.

[Alex Clark]

Right? Yeah. And that's what real brain food is, right? The high cholesterol foods, high fat foods.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

People who had a fat based diet. So think salmon, avocados, healthy oils, nuts and seeds, eggs had 42% less risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. People who had a protein based diet, so think of the caveman diet, 21% less risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. But people who had a simple carbohydrate based diet. So think the standard American diet. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, fruit juice, sugar, had a 400% increased risk.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

If you're overweight and have high blood sugar, that's the royal road to losing your mind.

[Alex Clark]

So you're saying Alzheimer's is almost completely diet induced?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No, I wouldn't go that far. But diet is a huge influence on it. Just quickly, bright minds. So blood flow. So if you have high blood pressure, any form of heart disease, if you're sedentary, if you use alcohol, marijuana, nicotine, much caffeine, have low blood flow, all of those things are preventable. R is retirement and aging. Do you continue to learn new things throughout life? So what we're doing today is I'm sharing knowledge or learning knowledge that's absolutely great for your brain and it's great for mine because I'm giving away what I learned, which is purposeful. I is inflammation. And inflammation, yes, can come from your diet, but it can also come from toxic exposure. G is genetics. Genes really do matter. But genes are not a death sentence. What they should be is a wake up call. So for example, I adopted my two nieces because their mom and dad were both drug addicts who had mental health issues. And I caught the older one vaping when she was 16. Grounded her for six months. And I'm like, no, you need to be on an alcohol prevention program. Alcohol and drug prevention program every day of your life. And now she's a pre med student at ucla. I'm so proud of her. H is head trauma, major cause of dementia that people never think about. T is toxins, drugs, alcohol. But also general anesthesia is toxic to the brain. Kids who have general anesthesia have a higher incidence of ADD and learning disabilities. Adults with general anesthesia have a higher incidence of dementia. The M is mental health issues like a high ant population negativity bias or something called adverse childhood experiences. How many bad things happened to you? On a scale of 0 to 10 growing up, it's clearly bad for your brain. The second I is immunity and infections. I think infectious diseases like Covid and Lyme are major causes of dementia and psychiatric illnesses. N is neurohormone disorders, is your hormones drop, you just age faster. D is diabesity. We talked about high blood sugar and being overweight and S is sleep. And so keep your brain healthy or rescue it. You have to prevent or treat those risk factors.

[Alex Clark]

Is it possible to treat treat epilepsy in children?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Of course. And you know, I have a granddaughter with epilepsy and she responded beautifully to the ketogenic diet. So what's that? It's a diet that is basically very low carbohydrates and very high fat. And it's been found to decrease seizure frequency by more than 50% in children. So if you have a seizure disorder, you should really be paying attention to what you eat and the frequency of the seizures you have. If you have a behavior disorder, which is dysregulation of the brain, seizures are dysregulation of the brain. You should really be paying attention to what you eat. There's a new book out by a Harvard psychiatrist, Brain Energy, and he opens the book with a story of a person who has schizophrenia, who's psychotic on a ketogenic diet became much more balanced better than with medication.

[Alex Clark]

If you could do one thing every day for the rest of your life to protect your brain, what would it be?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Ask this one question. Whatever I'm going to do today, is it good for my brain or bad for it? And if I can answer that one question with information and love, love of myself, love of my family, love of the reason God put me on earth, I'm just going to stay healthy for as long as I can.

[Alex Clark]

What do you think? Most therapists are getting completely wrong about anxiety and depression.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They think it's a serotonin Deficiency. And it's not. It's many different things. They reach for medication when they should reach first for looking at the brain, understanding it, and then working to get the physical functioning of the brain healthy.

[Alex Clark]

Why do some people do everything right? You know, they're sleeping well, they're eating right, they're exercising, and then they still feel mentally sleep stuck.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, because they don't know what is actually going on with their brain. They might be doing everything right, but living in a mold filled home. I don't know if you know Dave Asprey, he started Bulletproof. Dave and I have been friends a long time. He came and got his brain scanned about 15 years ago and it was moth eaten. It was terrible.

[Alex Clark]

Moth eaten brain?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, it was terrible. And it turned out he was being exposed to mold. And when he got the mold out, his brain got healthy. And then he dedicated his whole career to helping people biohack their brain and their body. I'm so proud of him. And I think if you are stuck, it could be one of those 11 risk factors that is not being properly addressed.

[Alex Clark]

You have been doctor and therapist for some of the biggest stars in the world. From Miley Cyrus to Justin Bieber. Which celebrity left the biggest impact on you and why?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, it's almost like choosing favorites between your children. But you know, I often tell Miley I was a complete failure for eight years and a wild success for six. And so, you know, last year she got the Grammy for Flowers, which is a song about self love. She just could teach what I teach. She gets it, gives it away, lives it. I'm so proud.

[Alex Clark]

What did you notice on Justin Bieber's brain scan? I'm just so curious.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, we talked about it in his documentary seasons. He was actually diagnosed with Ramsay Hunt and bipolar disorder. I didn't think he had it to our discussion earlier. And it turned out he had Lyme disease and his brain was really low in activity when I first saw him. And eight months later it was dramatically better.

[Alex Clark]

What kinds of things were you guys doing that increased it so much?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Hyperbaric oxygen was one of the main strategies. He actually slept in his chamber. Whoa. I often recommend, but he was very serious and I haven't talked to him for a couple of years, so I don't know what's going on with him now, but I know hyperbaric oxygen was helpful. The IV therapy he did was helpful. Eating really healthy was helpful.

[Alex Clark]

If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture and that could be physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It be this is good for your brain or bad for it. I'm serious about creating a national brain health initiative where we teach children, adults, firefighters to love their brain and just every day go, is this good for my brain or bad for it? We're doing a big firefighter initiative for firefighters who are involved in the LA fires. I mean, I don't know if you know, but it's a brain damaging job.

[Alex Clark]

I was literally right when you first said firefighter. I thought, oh, I feel for the firefighters that were working in LA during these fires. I mean, I have so many concerns about not only the, the first responders that had to deal with that, the people living there in general. I just feel like it's truly probably so toxic and too toxic to live and rebuild for a long time. Even going on those beaches and all of the soot and stuff mixed in the sand. I have so many concerns about that whole area for people. But the firefighters, that is such a underappreciated job that they literally destroy their brains and their bodies just for other people. It's, it's tremendous.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They have a 40% increased risk of that's just not okay. And it's because of the physical trauma, the toxic exposure and the emotional trauma. Every day they go to work is someone's worst day of their life. And so if you live that day after day after day, it takes an emotional toll on you.

[Alex Clark]

You're a 12 time New York Times bestseller. Is that right? 12. At this point, if somebody has never read any of your books yet and they're really interested in your parenting or relationship advice, what book should they start with?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So the end of raising mentally strong kids for parenting. But for people who've never read any of my work, Change your brain Every Day is 366short essays of the most important things I've ever said in any of my books.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, easy.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I wrote sort of my greatest hits book.

[Alex Clark]

Yep.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I don't think it's like the Beatles White Album, but it's sort of. And that way it honors our ADD society. People learn in two to three minute chunks and there's a little exercise at the end of each day to just teach people to love and care for their, their brains.

[Alex Clark]

Where can people follow you on social media?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Instagram Doc Amon or on Tik Tok Doc Amen. They can learn about our clinics@amon clinics.com.

[Alex Clark]

Dr. Amen, thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Alex, what a joy to talk to you.

[Alex Clark]

Were you surprised by Dr. Amon's take on Cry it Out and daycare and attachment. I definitely was. I'd love to hear your thoughts and read them in the Cute Servitors Facebook group. You can also say what you thought in a five star review. Tell others why they should listen to Culture Apothecary and what episode you think that they should start with. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture twice a week. That's Mondays and Thursdays, 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern where a brand new guest comes on, shares their remedy. To do just that, make sure you also subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube. I post not only my interviews there in a beautifully multi camera shot format, but also vlogs and other extra content. The show's on Instagram at Culture Apothecary and I'm on Instagram ealalexclark I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.