Is It Possible To Reverse Autism? | Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh, MD

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark: Is It Possible To Reverse Autism? | Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh, MD

Release Date: December 20, 2024

In this compelling episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex Clark engages in a profound conversation with Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh, MD, an integrative pediatrician based in Studio City, California. Dr. Warsh brings a fresh perspective to the ongoing discussions around autism, chronic diseases, and the broader implications of modern lifestyle choices on children's health.

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Introduction to Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh

Dr. Warsh introduces himself as an integrative pediatrician with a decade of experience, deeply committed to addressing the root causes of chronic diseases in children. He emphasizes the importance of lifestyle factors over purely genetic determinants in the rise of conditions like autism.

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The Rapid Increase in Autism Diagnoses

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the alarming surge in autism diagnoses over the past few decades. Dr. Warsh highlights the statistics, noting a rise from 1 in 10,000 fifty years ago to approximately 1 in 22 children in California today.

Dr. Warsh [04:10]: "It's insane how rapidly it has increased over the last 20, 30 years."

He challenges the commonly cited reason of improved diagnostics, pointing out that the severity of current diagnoses, such as a higher percentage of non-verbal children, suggests that increased awareness alone cannot account for the spike.

Dr. Warsh [05:37]: "We don't have a list to say, well, these are the top 10 things that you should be doing... It doesn't seem like we're talking about this more."

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Media's Role and Public Awareness

Dr. Warsh criticizes the media for not adequately informing parents about the societal factors contributing to the autism epidemic. He stresses the importance of acknowledging environmental toxins, poor diet, and high stress as potential culprits.

Dr. Warsh [05:57]: "We are doing this. Something is going on in our society. We don't specifically know what that is... we're not protecting these kids."

He underscores the need for a united effort to support families and improve the resilience and health of children diagnosed with autism.

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Vaccinations and Autism: Debunking Myths

Addressing a controversial topic, Dr. Warsh discusses the relationship between vaccinations and autism. He firmly states that vaccines do not cause autism, supported by his clinical observations.

Dr. Warsh [12:53]: "We cannot say that vaccines cause autism because I've seen kids with autism that never had a vaccine."

He advocates for informed discussions between parents and healthcare providers, emphasizing that while vaccines carry some risks, their benefits in preventing serious diseases are significant.

Dr. Warsh [12:31]: "We have to push back... it's not about not doing them, but if you are going to do them, why shouldn't we minimize the risk for kids?"

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Lifestyle Factors: Diet, Toxins, and Physical Activity

Dr. Warsh elaborates on how modern lifestyles contribute to chronic diseases, including autism. He attributes the rise to factors such as processed foods, exposure to toxins, sedentary habits, and inadequate sleep.

Dr. Warsh [02:35]: "It's the food that we're eating, the toxins that we're exposed to, the high levels of stress, the lack of exercise... these are all the basic foundations that matter."

He draws parallels with other autoimmune conditions, suggesting that many diseases have both genetic and lifestyle components, and that improving lifestyle can significantly mitigate health issues.

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Integrative Medicine and Natural Remedies

A core theme of the episode is the advocacy for integrative medicine, which blends conventional medical practices with holistic approaches. Dr. Warsh shares personal anecdotes and professional experiences where lifestyle interventions have led to significant improvements in children's health, including cases where autism symptoms have been reversed or diminished.

Dr. Warsh [17:35]: "There is debate about what autism is, but for sure symptoms. I've seen it reverse."

He emphasizes preventive care, nutrition, and functional medicine as pivotal in addressing and potentially reversing chronic conditions.

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Parenting Challenges: Screen Time, Diet, and Sleepovers

Dr. Warsh and Alex Clark delve into practical parenting issues impacted by modern lifestyles:

• Screen Time: They discuss appropriate limits, suggesting that excessive screen exposure is detrimental, but controlled and educational use can be beneficial.

  Dr. Warsh [27:02]: "We're not getting outside, we're not getting into nature, we're not cooking as a family, we're not communicating."

• Diet: The conversation highlights the addiction-like qualities of ultra-processed foods and the importance of introducing healthy, whole foods to children.

  Dr. Warsh [57:37]: "Kids are addicted to this food... you have to just like a drug addict, you have to wean them off."

• Sleepovers: They debate the safety and psychological impacts of sleepovers, balancing concern over potential dangers with the social and developmental benefits they can offer.

  Dr. Warsh [44:10]: "If you know people and you have close family members or friends that you can trust, then I think that's okay."

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Advice for Medical Professionals and Parents

Towards the end of the episode, Dr. Warsh provides actionable advice for both healthcare practitioners and parents:

• For Medical Professionals: He encourages those disillusioned with traditional models to explore integrative medicine, emphasizing the growing demand for holistic healthcare.

  Dr. Warsh [64:08]: "Start to look into integrative medicine and natural medicine... open up your own practice or go work for a practitioner."

• For Parents: Emphasis is placed on reading food labels, prioritizing health over convenience, and making informed decisions about vaccinations and lifestyle choices.

  Dr. Warsh [65:48]: "Read the label on everything you buy from now on. If it's a long chemical word, you don't know what it is, it's probably not good for you."

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Conclusion: Healing a Sick Culture

Dr. Warsh closes the discussion by reiterating the collective responsibility to reform the food system and prioritize health. He advocates for community gardens, local farming, and accessible healthy food options as essential steps toward a healthier society.

Dr. Warsh [66:50]: "Take our power back. If everybody does that, then the companies will change because they're not going to sell things that don't sell."

Alex Clark wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to stay informed and proactive in their parenting choices to foster a healthier future for their children.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dr. Joel Warsh [04:10]: "It's insane how rapidly it has increased over the last 20, 30 years."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [05:37]: "We don't have a list to say, well, these are the top 10 things that you should be doing... It doesn't seem like we're talking about this more."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [12:53]: "We cannot say that vaccines cause autism because I've seen kids with autism that never had a vaccine."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [17:35]: "There is debate about what autism is, but for sure symptoms. I've seen it reverse."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [27:02]: "We're not getting outside, we're not getting into nature, we're not cooking as a family, we're not communicating."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [57:37]: "Kids are addicted to this food... you have to just like a drug addict, you have to wean them off."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [64:08]: "Start to look into integrative medicine and natural medicine... open up your own practice or go work for a practitioner."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [65:48]: "Read the label on everything you buy from now on. If it's a long chemical word, you don't know what it is, it's probably not good for you."
• Dr. Joel Warsh [66:50]: "Take our power back. If everybody does that, then the companies will change because they're not going to sell things that don't sell."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Culture Apothecary serves as a thought-provoking exploration of the intersection between modern lifestyle choices and the health of our children. Dr. Warsh’s insights challenge conventional wisdom, urging both medical professionals and parents to reevaluate their approaches to health, nutrition, and preventive care. By advocating for integrative medicine and empowering parents with knowledge, the episode contributes meaningfully to the mission of healing a sick culture both physically and mentally.

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For more insights and expert discussions on health and wellness, subscribe to Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark and follow the show on Instagram at Real Alex Clark.

Transcript

[Alex Clark]

Have you ever seen a child be able to reverse their autism?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

If we're working towards helping kids to function better, there are things that we can do and we're told in modern medicine there's nothing we can do. Every autoimmune condition, every disease, There's a Type 1 and a Type 2, and some are fully genetic. A lot of it is actually lifestyle.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Dr.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

The word comes from the Latin docer, meaning to teach.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Where did the teaching go?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Our job is to inform parents of the pros and the cons, the risks and the benefits of any decision and work with them to help them make the best decision for their family.

[Unnamed Host]

Is it possible to reverse an autism diagnosis?

[Alex Clark]

Can antibiotics for a viral infection be the quick fix you need to get your kids better before a holiday event?

[Unnamed Host]

What is the best hack for teaching a kid to blow through their nose? Dr. Joel Warsh, who goes by Dr.

[Alex Clark]

Gator, is an integrative pediatrician based in Studio City, California, and he's here to entertain all my burning questions on everything.

[Unnamed Host]

From vomiting to what's responsible for the rise in autism, even sleepovers.

[Alex Clark]

And boy, does that get spicy.

[Unnamed Host]

This episode is available to watch on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel.

[Alex Clark]

Thanks to generous donations from listeners like you who believe in our mission to heal a sick culture faithful physically, mentally and spiritually. You can find a link to leave a tax deductible donation in the show notes.

[Unnamed Host]

Five star reviews, though, are free and.

[Alex Clark]

That is the easiest way to support the show at no cost to you.

[Unnamed Host]

It is the holidays. Do you have the health and wellness girly in your life covered?

[Alex Clark]

Shop show [e-mail] Please welcome integrative pediatrician Dr. Joel Warsh, aka Dr. Gator to Culture apothecary. As a pediatrician, what are common things that your seeing parents do with their children that is contributing to the rise of chronic disease?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think some of the biggest things that are contributing to chronic disease, first of all, are the fact that we're not even aware that the things that we're doing have such a big difference. I mean, I think that in the media it's really being pushed back is something that we don't have a lot of control over. And actually we do. And I think it's the food that we're eating, the toxins that we're exposed to, the high levels of stress, the lack of exercise, these are all the.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Basic foundations of what we need to be healthy. I talk about the seeds of health or the foundation of health being stress.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Environment and toxins Exercise, diet and sleep. But at the end of the day, it's really these basic foundations that matter. And it doesn't seem like we're talking about. It doesn't seem like we're focused on it anymore.

[Alex Clark]

Parents say that it's too expensive, they're too busy to make non toxic lifestyle changes for their kids. Do you feel like that is a good excuse?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I feel like that is not a good excuse.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think it's understandable. I understand why we say these things. I mean, we're certainly busy and things can cost a lot, but it doesn't have to. And the reality is that we've been, I think, lied to and marketed to over so many years. And we focus on faster, cheaper, better, but we lose with that is our health. And I believe that it's so important that we reprioritize our health.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Some things can be more expensive, but it doesn't have to be that way. And we can certainly prioritize our health and do things that are similar cost, but one thing is a little healthier than the other. By just reading labels, we can spend more time cooking, we can cook bigger meals, we can plant a garden. There are many ways to do this. So yes, I understand that people are busy and that things can cost more money. But I think it's so vital that we put this back into the equation. And I think if we start to do that, then we can find ways within our budget, within our time frame that we can, we can be a little healthier.

[Alex Clark]

How long have you been a pediatrician?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

About 10 years.

[Alex Clark]

Has the amount of children being diagnosed with autism changed slowly over time or has it increased rapidly?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I would say it's very rapid. I mean, if you look at the statistics, you go back 20 to 50 years, it was like 1 in 10,000. Even some studies said 1 in 25,000, then it was down to 1 in a thousand, then 1 in 150 and now it's 1 in 36 or 1 in 22 in California. It's insane how rapidly it has increased over the last 20, 30 years. First of all, the big question is why is this happening? That is so frustrating as a pediatrician and as a dad, that whether we're talking about any chronic disease or autism specifically why we're not talking about this more and why we're not figuring it out. We don't have a list to say, well, these are the top 10 things that you should be doing, or these are the top 10 things that we could be doing. Most of what you Hear, especially in mainstream media, is it's just that we're better at diagnosis. It's that we've changed the criteria. And that's true to some degree, of course. I mean, we certainly are more aware of autism and the diagnostic criteria have changed a little bit, but not that much in the last 20 years. So that is not what's going on. Plus, if you go back 50 years, I mean, when you look at the children who have autism today, about 25% are non verbal. So where were those kids 50 years ago? I mean, they might have a different diagnosis, but they would be.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

There'd be all these kids that were.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Nonverbal with some other diagnosis. It didn't exist. I don't remember it. Most people don't remember it. And yet we're saying, oh, we're just better at diagnosing. That is not true.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

We are a little bit.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So that's a small portion of it. But you don't go from, let's say in year 2001 and a thousand down to one in 22 over that short a timeframe because of genetics and diagnosis. It's happening more. It's everywhere. And if you look around, you can see that.

[Alex Clark]

What is the media not telling parents about autism?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think the media is not telling parents that we are doing this. Something is going on in our society. We don't specifically know what that is. I think it's probably many things, but what we are doing is actually causing this epidemic in some way. And I believe a part of that is we don't want to blame or shame parents, but it's not about blame or shame. Nobody should feel like they did something wrong. But if we don't acknowledge that the toxins that we're being exposed to contribute to this or figure out what's going on, then how are we going to do anything different? And we're just going to see it get worse and worse and worse and the numbers are going to keep increasing. And we all should be on the same team here. We're about kids health. We want healthy kids, we want kids to be as vibrant as possible. If we're just saying that it's happening more, we're not protecting these kids, we're not helping these kids, and we're not supporting them as much as we can. And some kids with autism, extremely highly functioning, that's great. But there are so many kids that.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Can'T function very well.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

The families are having serious issues with a child who's non verbal, who's hurting themselves, who's Stimming all the time, who has serious difficulty integrating into society. And for those families, it can be extraordinarily frustrating and difficult. And why are we not working towards helping the people that want to work to improve symptoms or to help these kids to function as best as we can? Isn't that our job as a society? Isn't that my job as a pediatrician and a health advocate to help support families as much as we can to help their kids to be the most resilient and healthy that they.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

They can be?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

If you're happy with everything, great, that's wonderful. But there are a lot of families that aren't, and I feel like they're getting left out.

[Alex Clark]

One of the best arguments against this, we're just getting better at testing for autism. Talking points that I've heard is from RFK Jr. He talked about how his family founded the Special Olympics and that they would find a way to work with any type of, of person with severe disabilities. People that were basically vegetables, they would still be able to work with them. They would find way. Said that back then when the Special Olympics was founded, they didn't have these people that were stimming, head banging, shrieking, violent. That didn't exist. Then. He talked about if it is true that we've just gotten better at testing autism, and that is why we're seeing this increase of numbers. Why don't you see elderly people walking around in public with these symptoms?

[Unnamed Host]

Wouldn't we be able to be like.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, you have autism. You have autism, autism. And they'd all be in helmets, freaking out, violent, you know, shrieking, unable to handle audio noise, voice colors? We don't see that. You only see those symptoms in children younger and younger. What do you think about that?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Right, And I think that's absolutely true. The, the difficult part with autism, and what I think has made this so complicated is that it's such a wide spectrum for autism, and they're probably. Well, there are a lot of adults that were never diagnosed with autism, but a lot of them are on the much milder side of that spectrum.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

And so they're, they're fully functioning adults.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That didn't even know they were autistic and then got the diagnosis when they're older. But what we're seeing with kids, especially with the severe autism, and I think.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

That'S a huge part of it, it's.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Very different, it almost should be, I think, a separate diagnosis. And that's where I think we're running into issues, because they're very highly functioning Kids, and there are kids that are having a lot of difficulty. And so sometimes those two things get compared and they're put in the same box when they may not exactly be. And so that. That I do think there's just so many more kids with such severe autism right now, and that that's why we're seeing this, and that's why they didn't see it before, because I don't think it existed or, or didn't exist in the same way or certainly wasn't as.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Common, not even close to what we're seeing now.

[Alex Clark]

So I just interviewed Dr. Bob Sears. He said that in all of the years, 25 years or whatever of his practice, he's never once seen a child who was not vaccinated get some kind of serious illness because they weren't vaccinated. Now, that was his, you know, anecdote, his personal story in his practice. But you're also a pediatrician, and so I'm wondering for any of your patients who opted to not vaccinate their children, did anyone come down with any serious illness because of that choice?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

No, they haven't. I. I haven't seen it. I mean, I certainly read about it now in the hospital when I worked. I did see some kids with bad whooping cough, but that's really it.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I haven't seen a lot of it.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, if you look at the statistics of the vaccine, preventable illnesses, they're very rare, and they're very rare. The argument would be that that's because people are vaccinating. And I'm sure that's true or partially true, but we don't see a lot of these things today. And when I have discussions with parents, I mean, we're talking about risk and reward, and that's the discussions we should be having about vaccines. And it's unfortunate that you just mentioned the word, and everybody goes nuts and starts fighting about vaccines and everything with that topic. But at the end of the day, it's about healthy kids, and we should be having these discussions so parents can make informed decisions. I never tell people what to do. I don't think that's our job as a doctor. And I'm so frustrated to see that we've moved to this way in medicine where it's like telling people what to do. I mean, doctor, the word comes from the Latin doce, or meaning to teach. Where did that go?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Where did the teaching go?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Our job is to inform parents of the pros and the cons, the risks and the benefits of any decision. And Work with them to help them make the best decision for their family. And these days it seems like there's so much telling and not partnering. And of course, if you're someone's doctor, a lot of times they're going to take your advice and that's hopefully going to be a good thing. But at the end of the day, we're supposed to be having these discussions and it doesn't seem like it's happening with vaccines or many topics. And I think that's a real shame and something we need to get back to because hesitancy is higher than ever because I feel like people don't trust the system anymore and that's not a good thing either. We need to build that trust back for our kids. We need to not lie to people, we need to be honest and we need to have tough discussions like about autism. And we have to put everything on the table because we literally don't know. We cannot say that vaccines cause autism because I've seen kids with autism that never had a vaccine, so that absolutely can't be the only cause. And I think there are so many things going on and the fact that we don't know, the fact that this isn't a priority, that we're not doing, I don't know, 500 double blind control trials with thousands or millions of kids.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

To figure this out.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, we have big databases, countries have databases for all of their kids and we have no idea what's going on or why this happened. I think we do. I think we know personally that it's the food and the toxins, but we don't officially know that. And we have to so we can help move this in a different direction.

[Unnamed Host]

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[Alex Clark]

You have a lot of celebrity patient clients in la. What would shock parents about some of the medical or health decisions that celebrities are making for their children?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think some of the things that would would be shocking or that people don't always practice what they preach. So I think that is, is something that is really unique. And also that when you look at social media, a lot of, you know, celebrities or influencers will post one thing but actually will be doing something completely different. I think that doesn't.

[Alex Clark]

So do you mean like there are celebrities that tell you that you should inject something and then they are not willing to do the same to their own children?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I have seen that before. Yes, but even more simply like the one month old visit, you know, everybody's not at their best after they have one month old. They haven't slept very long. Maybe they got, you know, spit up all over themselves and things are kind of in disarray. Or maybe they just came in the office and they were crying because they're having a very difficult time. And then you see an hour later the perfect post with them in their nursery smiling, blessed to be a mom. Blessed. It's like I just saw you. You're not the same person that's posted this thing online. And that is tough on a lot of parents because they see this and they want to live to that standard or they feel like that's the way.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

That it should be.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And the reality is that we all go through the parenting struggles and the more that we can see the reality of the world, I think the more that it helps people to know that it's, it's okay to have a tough day. So I think that's one thing that people don't realize because social media is so curated, especially with an influencer and they're only posting the best things, they're not showing you all the other stuff.

[Alex Clark]

That's like really important insight. I think for a lot of moms that just struggle with comparison when they're scrolling on Instagram or TikTok. Do you know anything about rates of autism in Amish communities?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So it's an interesting topic because there have been some studies and they're near zero. You know, there have been some studies that have come out to say there were none or maybe two or three cases in a large population. So it's much lower than the average population. But the counter argument to that is that they're not diagnosing those kids. But I have seen some studies where they took the kids theoretically to an outside practitioner who was able to independently evaluate it and they still didn't find it. So I think it is very interesting and it's probably accurate. I, I feel like it's the chemicals and toxins that we're exposed to mixed with the, the lack of nutrients. And so people want to point to one specific thing when it comes to what is causing autism. But I think if you look at the Amish population, it's how they're living that makes a difference. And, and I think that is true because in my practice I have a very select population of parents who come.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Who are already holistically minded to some degree.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That's why they're choosing to come there. And the rates of everything are so much lower than in the rest of the population. And it's not because I'm some magical doctor, it's because of the way that they live their lifestyle. I rarely see obesity or overweight kids in my practice when half the population has that. That wasn't the case when I was working at the hospital. But in my practice, most kids are fit, very few are overweight or obese. Almost none have diabetes. You can't even find it. 33% are pre diabetic or diabetic. I mean, it's an insane difference. And that's not because of some magic beans. It's because they live a healthier lifestyle. They're, they're conscious.

[Alex Clark]

Have you ever seen a child be able to reverse or completely lose their autism?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

There, there is debate about what autism is, but it for sure symptoms. I've seen it reverse. I, I work with Documenting Hope.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I'm one of their advisors and they.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Had that recent study.

[Alex Clark]

Tell us, tell us about it. I don't know about it.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So two 20 month old twins had severe autism. They worked for two to three years with functional practitioners and they both had severe autism. And then over those two years, by doing a lot of testing, changing up their diet, changing up their lifestyle, their symptoms drastically improved to the point where one didn't have the diagnosis of autism anymore doesn't have autism symptoms. And then the other one was in the low category. And then the follow up with that child after the study was that they also lost the diagnosis. So, I mean, it's definitely happened. I've seen in my practice too, if.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

We'Re working towards helping kids to function.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Better, there are things that we can do. And we're told in modern medicine there's nothing we can do. But the fact that we see this happening just over a year or two.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Needs to tell us that it's not.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Just genetics, it is our lifestyle. And if we start to take our power back, we start to take control of our own families, then there is a lot that we can do.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Not always, of course, there are genetic.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Factors and some conditions like cystic fibrosis, no matter what you do, you're still going to have it. But it doesn't mean you can't live a healthier lifestyle to live in the.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Most healthy way that you can.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And I think that is true of almost every condition. And it's so interesting to me because you look at diabetes and that theory is common across medicine, right? Like type 1 diabetes and type 2. You have someone who's type 2 diabetic, doctor says, okay, change up your lifestyle, eat a little bit better, and we.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Can see things improve.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And then they do. I think that's true of every autoimmune condition, every disease. There's a Type 1 and a Type 2, and some are fully genetic. And then a lot of it is actually lifestyle. And I think if we change up.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Our lifestyle, we would see a huge difference.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And I think if we stratify it like that, that would give people a lot of power.

[Alex Clark]

Are parents bringing kids to you because they're way too young to be starting puberty?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I don't know that they're coming for that reason, but we definitely see it.

[Alex Clark]

What's going on with that? Why are so many little girls getting puberty?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think again, it's the toxins and the chemicals. I think we're seeing all sorts of hormone disruptors. But it's such an interesting topic that nobody's talking about because the average age of puberty, when even when we were growing up was like 12, 13 for girls, and now it's eight or nine.

[Alex Clark]

That's really freaky.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That, to me, is one of those things where you can really very definitively point to environment. You cannot say that that's genetics. We haven't changed when we started puberty in 20, 30 years because of our genetics that's completely environmental.

[Alex Clark]

So why if a parent is listening and they are experiencing post vaccination regret, maybe 24 hours ago they opted for their child to get a certain vaccine and now they're like, oh my gosh, maybe I made a wrong decision. Do you have any recommendations for detox protocol or just different things that they can do to kind of help support their child's body?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Going through this, it's insane that we're not studying this to figure out what are the things that we can do to help people detoxify. Usually when I talk to my patients, we just use common sense being how can we support our body's natural detoxification. So I mean the first things that you would think about would be pooping, peeing and sweating. That's how we get things out. So making sure if the child's older.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

To move a lot more, get outside.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Drink a lot of fluids, get things out. So magnesium is great support. Vitamin C is a great support. Homeopathic sthuja T H U J A is a very common reported to help with, with detoxification. So these are things that parents can do. I mean there's no specific protocol because it's never been studied, not from any research I've ever seen. It would be nice to see if there were things we could do to help support detoxification or if there's anything we could do to minimize side effects in, in shots. Like again, why do we not perform research on something that we're doing on.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

All kids to minimize risk?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

It's not about not doing them, but if you are going to do them, why shouldn't we minimize the risk for kids? Why shouldn't we figure out is there any ingredient inside of these things that could be contributing to a side effect or a risk and maybe we could take that out, maybe we could change it, maybe we could change up the schedule to make it safer. I don't know. Right. Like what? I don't have the answer to these things. But if we're doing something to every child, many times do we not think that we should be consistently studying that to figure out how we do it the safest possible?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

If you're going to do it, why.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Are we trusting companies to do that? Of course they're not going to study these things to figure out problems with their own products.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

We have to do that.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

We have to push back.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

This shouldn't be controversial.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Why is it controversial to say that we want our kids to be the healthiest and we want to figure out what our Risk risks might be because everything has risks. Everything in medicine has a risk. If you give a, if you give Tylenol, you could have a reaction. If you take a medication, you can have a reaction.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

So of course there are side effects.

[Alex Clark]

Do you ever tell your patients to take Tylenol?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I don't tell people to do it in general, unless they're really a high.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Fever or they're miserable.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, usually the, the recommendations would be, you know, if they're okay, I would just let it run its course. I mean, fevers are not a bad thing.

[Alex Clark]

What is the temperature of a fever that you be like, that's the temp you need to bring your kid to the doctor?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I would say over 103 is a good marker to bring your kid to the doctor, not necessarily that it's an emergency. So, I mean, first of all, we have to go back a little bit because there's two different age categories there. If your kid's under two months, a fever is an emergency. It's something you should get checked. And I think that's where a lot of the fever phobia comes from, because a fever in a baby is a.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Is very different.

[Unnamed Host]

Okay.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So for a baby, they just don't have a fully developed immune system yet. And so they get sick really quickly if they are sick with something. And that's why the, the protocol is that you go to the emergency room. You go to the doctor right away if you have a fever. So that's a different.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Once you're older, like a toddler, if.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

They have a fever, it's not something that you should necessarily be worried about. It's something that is a good reaction that your body is doing to fight off the infection, to raise your temperature, to kill the pathogen, to improve your immune response. So I would just leave it be. Unless your child is incredibly miserable, can't sleep, just leave it alone. I'm much more worried about a child who has a 101 temperature, who's having.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Trouble breathing than even a 104.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And if it's over 103, you probably do want to get checked, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's an emergency.

[Alex Clark]

As a pediatrician, what do you think about a parent giving their kid Gatorade and Campbell's chicken noodle soup if their kid is sick?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I would not give those things. I mean, what were people doing back in there? They weren't making it. It was like bone broth. That's not the same thing. You're giving kids sugar and chemicals and dyes.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

It's. It's ridiculous.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

My 5 year old last week had his first soccer game. You know, super cute kids are running the wrong way, scoring on the wrong goal. Fantastic.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Game was over.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

The coach pulls out blue Gatorade, the.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

The Doritos, the chips.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And my mouth dropped and I was like, oh, man. But luckily, you know, he knows enough to say, no, thank you, which is great. But you look around the whole field and all the kids and all the different teams are getting Gatorade, Doritos, chips. I mean, can we at least give out fruit?

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, that's something that a lot of my audience complains about to me. They say, like, gosh, we do so well at home and stuff. And then it's the sporting activities that my kids are involved in. The food is atrocious. I mean, so my idea is like, well, I guess I'd just be volunteering as a parent. Like, okay, I guess I'm gonna. Can I volunteer to do all the snacks? Because, you know, I just wouldn't trust anybody else.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

It's really tough because I think that we don't want to be the one parent that's the weird one or the.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Crunchy one or whatever.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But I mean, you just have to be number one. There are so many people out there that are health conscious and they're just not connected. And the more that I've talked about this, the more that people have thanked me just for kind of connecting them and realizing that there's actually so many health conscious people out there. And at the end of the day, if you want to be the one with a healthy child, you have to kind of set those boundaries. I think it's important. I mean, if you live the way that everybody else is living, one out of two kids have a chronic disease. If you want one of your kids to be on medications in a couple of years, then I guess it's okay, keep doing what we're doing. But other than that, it's okay to bring your kid fruit to the sporting event. I think it's okay every now and again to let them have a treat. That's fine. They're at a party, have a couple of bites. You know, I'm not all or none, but it's way too often. And I think if we teach them about healthy eating, not only are we going to be supporting them in the long run, you're going to be teaching.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Them how to make healthy choices, which is the goal.

[Alex Clark]

Right.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

It's not to force them to eat healthy, it's to teach Them about what they should be looking for, what ingredients they need to be reading about what is healthy, what's good for them, versus not good for them.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

And they get it.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

My kid's five and he gets it. We had another treat for him and he loved that.

[Unnamed Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So it wasn't. He wasn't deprived when he's probably like 10, it's gonna be harder. I think.

[Alex Clark]

How much screen time is appropriate for a toddler?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Again, you gotta stratify it a little bit because the American Academy of Pediatrics says zero screen time between zero to two. And I think that stresses out a lot of parents. I think that's not the best recommendation. I have many parents that come in because their baby, you know, six month old, turn their head to watch the screen while their toddler was watching a cartoon and they freak out because they feel like it's turning their brains to mush, which is not the case. The problem with screen time is putting your child in front of the screen for a long time instead of parenting. It's all the things that we're not doing when we're talking about the older kids. Seven to nine hours is the average amount of screen time for kids a day. A day. That is the number. That's the statistic. It's insane. We're not getting outside, we're not getting into nature, we're not cooking as a family, we're not communicating.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

So that to me is the problem.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

What we're not doing. And we're seeing that gradual creep from toddlers to older kids going up and up and up.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I'm not against screen time.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Screens are here. They're not going anywhere. I think if you gotta do your homework on screen, that's fine. If you're on a trip and you're traveling or, you know, you're on a plane or a long car ride, do as much as you can as a family. And instead of having a toddler who is screaming and crying and having a tantrum, I think that's a great time to pull out an educational cartoon. So that to me is not the problem. It's decreasing it, minimizing it, using it as a tool. I'm okay with that. If you want to have zero screen time, I think that's totally fine and reasonable. But I don't think parents should be shamed or feel bad if they pull out a screen because they're on a five hour plane ride or something like that. I think that's a good tool that we've been given.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I'm okay with that.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But I would minimize it as much as we can. And I think it's important to note that you can learn from screens.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Kids can learn.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

There's a lot of research on that. There's a lot of research on Sesame street from many years ago that we do learn from screens. So it's not that it's all bad, it's just what are they watching? And all of the research also shows that you don't learn as well from screens as you do from a person.

[Alex Clark]

Isn't there research that shows that there are certain types of kids shows that are worse on the brain than others?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

There is a lot of conflicting research. A lot of these things are too new and the shows are always switching. But I think if it's an educational program, if they're learning something, then at.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

The end of the day, to me.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That'S not what I would be super worried about. It's those shows that they're really not learning much. They're very fast paced. They're kind of talking down to them. That to me is where we run into issues. But there's so many things to be stressed about and so many things to focus on. To me, half hour here or there is not what I'm worried about. It's the lengthening and the going for hours of watching screen time. That to me is where I'd put my focus and, and put my energy because there's just so many other things that we need to do that I don't think a parent needs to feel bad if they need to go to the bathroom or cook a meal and they put their kids in front of a screen for 15 or 20 minutes. That's not what I'm worried about.

[Alex Clark]

What's going on with the new speech guidelines for toddlers?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

The theory was that they wanted to make them more useful in terms of identifying problems. And so they moved them back from average to where it's an issue. And so there was a lot of debate and discussion about how they change things because kids are not doing as well, which I think is true. It's to some sense that kids are not doing as well.

[Alex Clark]

But is it possible they're not doing well? Because those kids right now that would be in that age range were born during the pandemic.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think that's certainly a part of it.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Kids are very resilient.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So I think most of them have bounced back and will bounce back, you.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Know, for the most part.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But I think that was very tough. It was one of the worst things we ever did to kids. We did literally the opposite of everything we know about health during the pandemic. And so I think the kids suffered. And maybe to me, the bigger issue with the pandemic for kids was the mental aspect of it. I think from an educational standpoint, most of them will probably bounce back over time, but mentally, especially for the younger kids, you have all these kids that really don't know the world, and then all of a sudden heard about disease and pandemic, and this is gonna kill you. This is gonna kill grandma. And then a couple years later, oh, well, Covid's still around, but I guess it's all right, you know, just go back to your daily life. And these kids don't know any difference. So it's really stress them out. And I wonder how that's going to affect them long term. But. But I think in terms of the development, the milestone change isn't really, at least from what I've seen, nefarious in any way. It was just more about changing the guidelines to help you to identify when a problem was because they were the median before.

[Alex Clark]

Do parents need to be stressed out about their kids hitting milestones?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think that we are way too.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Stressed out about comparing ourselves to others.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So I think we need to minimize that. I think it's good to have milestones. We need to know where kids are in general, because of course, there are situations where it gets way outside of normal, and that's something that's useful to know so you can get them into intervention to help. But most of these guidelines are about a kid in the middle. So let's say talking and walking around one. If your kid is 13 months old and not talking, there's nothing to be worried about. Half the kids are not talking at that time. I think we just need to put that into perspective. And also remember, again, back to social media. Everybody posts about the good things you can have. Your child who walks at 10 months, and they're posting about, oh my God, my child's walking at 10 months, but they don't post about how their child didn't start talking until they were 18 months. We're comparing to our friends, to our other kids, to our family members, and I think we just need to focus back to our kids. I mean, that's literally the title of my book, parenting at your child's pace. Because I think that we're so focused on everybody else, and I think we need to get back to focusing on our own family. And nothing drives that point home more than when you have more than one kid, because you realize that whatever worked for one kid doesn't necessarily even work.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

For your other child.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And every kid is so different that we need to really get back to focusing on our kids and figuring out what our parenting gut says. We don't trust ourselves anymore. I think that's the root of a lot of parenting stress.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

I feel like the system itself puts so much doubt in parents that, you know, you don't know what's best. Only experts, quote, unquote, know what's best. And just the damage that that's doing to parents when they feel like, oh, maybe I don't know what I'm doing.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Right. It's in many ways the most difficult time to be a parent because if you think you go back 50 years, 100 years, if you wanted to do something for your kid or know something, what did you do? You asked grandma, right? You were like, hey, you know, what did you start feeding me?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

And when.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Oh, I did peas at six months. Okay, I guess I'll do that. You know, unless you want to go to the library and take out a book or something like that. Then, you know, you didn't have any other information.

[Alex Clark]

Now we have too much information.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Grandma says one thing, right? And then the intern the other thing. It's like, start with carrots. No, you can never start with carrots. That will kill them.

[Alex Clark]

Start with bone marrow, right?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And. And so there's so many different opinions, they're all contradictory. And so you feel like you're in the middle and you feel like you can't make a decision because you're stuck in. No matter what you do, it's gonna be wrong. And nobody ever taught us how to use social media, how to use the Internet, and how to filter things out. And I think that's so important because the Internet is built around scaring you, right? Social media is built around scaring. It's about headlines and news. Everything, when you read it will tell you it's going to kill your child or give you the worst, worst case scenario. And not that we can't read the Internet, but I think we need to synthesize the information, learn about what's out there, and then bring it to the middle somewhere and figure out what we feel like is going to be best for our child and then do that.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

There's no one right way to do it.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And I think that if we realize that, then it will take a lot of pressure off of every little decision, which really doesn't matter that much anyways. Things like baby led Weaning versus purees.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

There's some research on both sides.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But if you're going to be stressed to give your kid chunks of food.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Why are you doing that?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Do the other thing.

[Unnamed Host]

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[Alex Clark]

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[Alex Clark]

Would you, as a pediatrician send your kids to daycare?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I'm not against sending them to daycare. I just think that number one, you can take care of your kids better than anybody else can. So if you can do that, I think that's great. I think a huge problem with modern daycare is that you send your kids to school and go to daycare because you need to. You know, we have a society where both parents work now for the most part, and that means that they need to go to work and so they.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Need daycare to take care of their children.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And what does that mean? Well, you send your kid back before.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

They'Re ready to go back if they're sick.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And so you send your kids to school and they're just always sick, they're always coming home. It's something like five to ten viruses are average a year for a younger child. And you see the kids in daycare, they get sick all the time versus the kids that are not rarely get sick because they're just not exposed as much. So personally I think if you have the option and you can stay home or you can hire somebody to take care of your kids, great.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

That's not an option for everybody. So I get it.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But at least if you're gonna do a daycare, the most minimal amount of.

[Alex Clark]

Kids possible, what are the best natural remedies for vomiting and diarrhea?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

First of all, the best thing is just to make sure that we're getting a lot of fluids. Right. So if you can get some, some bone broth or some homemade, you know, soup or things like that, I think that's very helpful for, for vomiting. Nettles is really good for vomiting, like stinging nettles. Stinging nettles is really good. Chamomile is really good for vomiting. So calming the stomach. Magnesium is really good for calming the stomach for vomiting.

[Alex Clark]

Which magnesium would you do for that?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Like a mixture of magnesium.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So like glycinate's really good.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

A lot of times with vomiting, it's good. Just kind of let it run its course. Almost every research study shows that with vomiting and diarrhea, the more that we do, the worse it is for the kids. So a lot of times it can be really helpful just to kind of let it run its course for diarrhea. Like something to bulk in, up the stool can be helpful. So, you know, people use rice sometimes or the brat diets like bananas, things like that can be helpful just to take in some of that liquid. Psyllium seed husk is really good for that as well. Sometimes parents will do that and it sucks up a lot of liquid. So these are some of the things.

[Alex Clark]

That, that I found is alternative or holistic medicine. Woo woo.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Shouldn't be so. To me, alternative medicine or integrative medicine is blending the best of modern medicine with alternative and holistic practices. I don't think it's woo woo at all. I think that integrative medicine focuses on prevention, it focuses on root cause. There are so many different modalities out there that we can integrate. I'm not against western medicine at all. We are very lucky that we have medications. We are very lucky that we have an emergency room.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

These are fantastic things.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

But we're so quick to use medications and it should be the last resort. If we have an emergency, great. You know, we have an antibiotic. You can get better in two days. But that should be something we use.

[Alex Clark]

Minimally now that we're in the holidays and people have stuff to go to. What do you think about the parents that give their kids antibiotics to treat some viral infection quickly so that they can go to some event?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That is a very bad idea because first of all, antibiotics don't treat viruses.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Right?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

They don't do anything. So you're only getting negative, you're only getting side effects and you're not getting any benefit. It's really important to know that because if you look at the statistics, most times that a child is sick, over 90% it's a virus, probably closer to 99%. So antibiotics actually do nothing except give you side effects. So if you have a bacterial infection that you're treating, that's what an antibiotic is useful for. And I have seen that so clearly in my office. I used to give out antibiotics like.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Candy when I was working in the.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Hospital because that's what we did and that's what we were taught. I knew everything off by heart. You'd give them ten times a day. I almost never give antibiotics anymore, maybe once or twice a month. My kids are just as healthy. They're not end up in the hospital all the time. I have to look up doses now because most people don't want it and they understand that you should use it only when you need it. And that is a huge difference. And it's not like my kids are less healthy. They're doing just fine.

[Alex Clark]

So what are like the only instances that you would prescribe an antibiotic?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So if it's a bacterial infection, like a pneumonia, an ear infection that's not improving, that's bacterial, a strep throat, things like that, where you have a identifiably treatable illness that you're going after, I mean, if you go to an urgent care for ear pain, 10 out of 10 times you're getting antibiotics, even though less than 1 out of 10 times you need it.

[Alex Clark]

What do you mean? What else would you use for an ear infection if it wasn't antibiotics?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Nothing.

[Alex Clark]

Oh really? You just leave it?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Usually.

[Alex Clark]

What if the kid's in pain and stuff? What do you do?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

The thing to know is if you.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Look at the statistics and this is not woo medicine, this is modern medicine. Look at the American Academy guidelines when they did the research on ear infections.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Most of it is viral and then.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Most of it is not treated by amoxicillin. Even if it is bacterial, the body usually clears it on its own if it's not serious. So if you're not having significant pain and it's or it's not bilateral, you're not having really bad fevers or miserable, then the guidelines say you should wait 48 hours before starting antibiotics. And I have seen that if you don't give medication, usually it's cleared and usually it gets better on its own. So it's okay to take a prescription in case it doesn't get better. Sometimes you need it, but usually you do not. And I would say with ear pain in my office, maybe 1 out of 50 or 1 out of 100 actually end up using antibiotics. For their ear pain and their ears are all fine. One of the keys to that, though, is having good communication with your doctor because sometimes you do need it. And so if it's getting worse, if the pain seems way outside of normal, then that may be a reason to do it. So it's not that there isn't bacterial ear infection, but that's not the norm. And when you go to urgent care, they're look at yours, they're going to see it's a little red, they're going to give it to you because they don't want to get sued for the one kid out of a million that their eardrums burst.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

And they say, well, why didn't you treat me? So they treat defensively in America because.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

We'Re like, well, we'll give them antibiotics. But if you are a parent, the question you should ask is, do I need to take this?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Okay, that's the question to ask as.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

A parent, because what happens is doctors will treat you because they think that's what you want and they want to cover their butt. So they'll say, well, you know, it seems like it's an ear infection. Here's your antibiotic. If you ask them, do I need to take this? Then a lot of them will say, well, you know, you can hold on to this for a day or two, see if it gets better. If it doesn't get better, take it. Or they'll say, yes, you should take it, because I think it's a bacterial pneumonia and your kid's going to get really sick and it's important. That's an important question to ask because you can can stratify the risk there and then you have a good reason to take it or not.

[Alex Clark]

What is your post antibiotic protocol to get your gut back in order?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So for a healthy kid in general, I don't think again, you have to do anything. To me, it's about eating healthy. But if you want to do probiotics, I think that's completely reasonable. So something like vitamin C, vitamin D, probiotics and omegas can be a reasonable thing to do. Again, I don't think that we have to do a lot for our kids. I think it's fine to do it if you want to, but. But if you're doing one course of antibiotics and your kid's otherwise healthy and goes back to running around and playing, then I would focus on decreasing their sugar, making sure they're eating healthy, getting outside once they're feeling better and their body's gonna figure it out.

[Alex Clark]

What is your controversial take on sleepovers as a pediatrician?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

My kid, the five year old, he had a play date with his friend, having a great time. And after he asked about sleepovers and I didn't even know he knew about this, I guess he said on tv, probably on Bluey or something like that. And that got me talking to my wife about sleepovers. And my wife said, oh, you know, I used to love sleepovers. I think I did it around when I was 8 or maybe 10. And I don't remember exactly when I did it, but I think it must have been around 10, 12 years old. And I love them. I had such a good time. And so I posted a poll about that on my Instagram and the options were something like 8 to 10, 10 to 12, 12 to 14 or 14 plus, something like that. And hundreds of people wrote me, never.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And so, so much so that I changed it. I kind of redid it and put.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Never in just to see.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And it was like 70% of people said never. And the amount of stories that people sent me about like life traumas, things that they've heard, I never thought about sleepovers. But it seems like the consensus for most people is to not do it. I don't know if that's true or not. I think if you know people and you have, you know, close family members or friends that you can trust, then I think that's okay. But at the same time, a lot of the counter argument to that is the people that might abuse kids or the people that you trust the most.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

So sometimes it's hard to know.

[Alex Clark]

Can I say, and this is like one of the disclaimer, I'm not a parent, so I fully acknowledge that perhaps my mind will change. But I will say as of now, one of my most controversial takes on sleepovers is that I am pro sleepover. I fully agree. It's, it's the, you know, a couple handful of, of families that you know and you trust very, very well or family. I love sleepovers. And my opinion is that we have people parenting in absolute states of fear. So they're ruling out, they're saying never and they're terrified of this, you know, serial abuser or whatever coming after the kid. Now, a lot of my audience is going to be very upset by me saying this because they're going to have personal stories that say otherwise. But I was doing sleepovers probably since I was 8 years old. The best memories of my life, the most fun. And I think that that played a huge role in just like Me experiencing, like, true girlhood, true childhood, my favorite memories. And so I just think a lot of people, it's just this, like, helicopter parenting, like, trying to be so in control to protect them. And I'm just like, I don't know that that's. My controversial take on it, is that I'm not totally against it.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I have the same controversial take as you.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So maybe it's because I didn't experience a trauma or maybe because I had so much fun, but when I was reading through the comments, you know, there's a good chunk, maybe 25% of them that were personal stories. And then everyone else was like, oh, I heard this, or I'm worried about this. And there is no question that we're more worried about everything than ever, because we hear about everything now. We never heard about all this, the rare things many years ago, but now.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

You always do with social media.

[Alex Clark]

But also think about what happened. We had. We started seeing 80s 90s. Everything became like, fear, porn on the news, stuff, every. Like, missing children. You know, that was, like, a huge thing that they would do. All of these true crime shows. I just think it's our generation, because what are. Are you millennial?

[Unnamed Host]

Okay.

[Alex Clark]

I feel like our generation, we grew up, like, that started happening of everybody being scared about, like, you know, being abducted and all of that kind of stuff. And so now millennials are parents themselves. And so that's just been, like, indoctrinated into us. And so we're parenting that way.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

We're afraid of everything, and we're so overprotective. I mean, that's a huge issue. I'm glad Jonathan Heights Wright brought that up in his book. He's been talking about it a lot because, at least in terms of the research, most of it says that we're much safer in terms of these things than we used to be. So the perception might not actually be the reality. And I think that, you know, absolutely, there are things that happen that are bad, but I'm not sure it's as bad as most people think.

[Alex Clark]

Your kid is more at risk coming in contact with a predator through their phone or their iPad or the game that they're playing on their device than they are at a sleepover or in public. That's my hot take. I think your kids are getting tons of spam porn messages, bots, predators getting into their DMs on Instagram and Roblox or whatever than they are at their friend's house that they go to school with.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Yeah. And I think the middle Ground there is. If you are even concerned about it and people are willing to come to your house, do it at your house, then you're not worried that anything's happening and they can still have their sleepovers.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

But at least it's at your house.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And not at somebody else's house. Yeah, I have to think about this more because I never even thought about it. This is such a new, a new thing that's interesting to me. But, but I would still be okay with my child going. And I agree with you. I think that they're are many other ways that there can be risks. But on the flip side, it's a very high risk situation because you're not there because they're sleeping over. So I, I get that perspective too. So I can understand both sides.

[Alex Clark]

I love that book Free Range Parenting by Lenore Skinazi Skenazi. Number one. That book was just such a great read, so informative and encouraging. But also it was very funny. She has like a really good sense of humor and she is that original parent that I think went viral. I don't know if it was Dr. Phil or what back in the day, but she came on and said like, oh, I let my 4 year old like do the whole New York City subway system by, by themselves. Now that was like 2010s era. So would I let my kid navigate the New York City subway system in 2024 with crime through the roof and liberal policies wrecking our cities? No, but I think, you know, a smaller city or little town, helping them figure out crossing the street by themselves, all that kind of stuff at 4 or 5 years old. I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Balance.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, it depends on where you are and everything is. It depends on your own situation where you're living, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

At the end of the day, it's not the extremes. I mean everything's in the middle somewhere. And I think that we're talking about so many extremes and extreme situations, but where is the place that most of us should parent? It's somewhere in the middle. It's not with extreme fear, but it's not, you know, kind of not caring at all.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Like somewhere in the middle, giving your.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Kid reasonable boundaries and reasonable leeway to have some fun without over parenting. That's where I think the happy place is.

[Alex Clark]

What is your hack for helping a kid learn how to blow their nose?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

My hack for helping a kid learn how to blow their nose is you take a paper towel roll and you put like a little, you know, Something in there, even like a little piece of paper, a little cotton, and then just have them blow into it. It. And that teaches them to blow out.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Because they're blowing the paper out or.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

They'Re blowing the little cotton ball out of their feather. And that actually works pretty well.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, I love that. And it's kind of like a game to them, like, can you get it? You know, and then they're learning. Are there any vaccines as a pediatrician that you think are worth considering?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

With vaccines, I would say, you know, if I'm stepping back, I never tell people what to do. I always have discussions with parents and discuss and debate the pros and the cons. The recommendations are the CDC recommendations. I think that if a parent has questions or concerns and that's something that they need to discuss with their parents. When people message me about, you know, what should I do versus what should I not do? I talk about weighing the pros and the cons for yourself. So especially with vaccines, so what is the risk from the disease? How frequent is it in our society? How severe are the complications if they get it, versus what are the risks to what are the risks from the vaccine? And it's tough with vaccines because I think there's a lot of the risks that we actually don't know or haven't studied very well. So it's hard to get an exact risk versus benefits equation. But I think at the end of the day, if you're choosing to do it, then if parents want to go on a slower schedule or do something different, then that's how they're weighing it. What's around more, what could kill you and things like whooping cough around more measles is around more pneumococcuses around. So these are things that could kill you. Again, not, not commonly.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Right.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Very rare these days. But if you are the one child.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

To get it and you are the one child to get it very severe.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Then it could make a big difference for you. And now RSV is another big topic. And I think this is going to be interesting over the next couple of years because RSV definitely can put you.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

In the hospital and definitely can be very severe.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And now there's a new vaccine for that. Very difficult to know anything about long term safety when something's only been around for a couple years. I mean, that was one of the most wild things to me about the pandemic, was talking about something as safe when you can't possibly say that. I mean, I think this is where a lot of the public Trust got.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Lost was saying something was safe.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

When you can't say that, you can say the known benefits outweigh the known risks. That's something you could say. But you can't say that we know that something's safe because you don't know if everyone's going to grow a third arm in 10 years. Right. You can't. You just can't say anything about long term. You can just say, based on the data that we have, based on our research, here's what we found, here's what we know. Weigh the pros and the cons for yourself. But you can say something's safe, and.

[Alex Clark]

Then you know what I think? I think, Dr. Gator, if. If the government would have been saying that during the pandemic, here's the known risks, here's the known. The known pros. Those, you know, weigh those options for yourself. I bet a lot more American parents would have opted to get it right.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Because what happened was people were so obviously lied to that they said, well, the heck with all this. I'm not doing anything.

[Unnamed Host]

Exactly.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And I have seen more parents than ever come to my office saying, you know, I used to do vaccines and now I don't want to do anything because I don't trust anything with the government. I don't trust anything with pharma anymore. And trust was lost because people were so obviously and so clearly lied to about things that just don't make sense. Again, you can't say something safe long term if you haven't studied it long term. Everybody knows that. So why would you say it in that way? It's not realistic. And why are we not partnering? Because if you have a new disease and you have a possible prevention, possible treatment for it, then, you know, people would line up if they feel like that treatment gives them benefit. And everybody knows that there's possible risks. If you have something new, then I get that there could be a risk.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

That we don't know about.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That's obvious. Right. We haven't seen it for five years, so how could you know? But you have to weigh the decision based on the information that we have at that time.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And I don't know why humans weren't allowed to weigh those risks and have discussions that we could come to a logical conclusion. And we lost a lot of trust. I mean, the trust in medicine is the lowest it's ever been. Hesitancy is the low is the highest it's ever been. Vaccine rates are the lowest they've ever been. Homeschooling is higher. Than it's ever been before because people don't trust in the system. And that's crazy. Medicine used to be one of the most trusted professions. I mean, other than firemen. Doctors were always at the top.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

And now doctors are at the bottom.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And for good reason. We earned it.

[Unnamed Host]

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[Alex Clark]

What would you say to a parent who said I understand I need to limit my kids exposure to ultra processed food as much as possible. But Dr. Gator, when I tried to give them macaroni and cheese that was homemade and not out of the box, when I tried to make our own chicken nuggets versus, you know, Tyson chicken nuggets, when I tried to give them homemade chicken noodle soup versus Campbell's chicken noodle soup, they hated it, rejected it and thought it was gross and refused to eat it. So I just feel like I have to keep feeding them that stuff.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

You don't have to keep feeding them that stuff. I, I think that first of all, whenever you make a change, there's always going to be some pushback. Kids are addicted to this food and like any addiction, it takes a little bit of time to break that addiction. And so you first of all have to practice what you preach. You have to get that stuff out of the house or stop buying it. You have to stop eating it yourself because it's to eat an Oreo cookie and then not expect them to eat it. Kids will eat homemade food. They will eat it if you start to prepare it. You have to give it some time, keep trying. And your goal is not to force them to eat things. It's to give them great food that they love, that they are excited to eat and that sometimes will come with a little bit of trial and error, a little bit of practice and doing different things. But at the end of the day they will eat it. They're not going to starve themselves.

[Alex Clark]

What are some meals that do really well in your house with kids?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, my kids eat all the same food that we eat. So I mean we, we make everything, nothing's, you know, pre prepared from, from our house. So just making chicken, making lamb, steak.

[Alex Clark]

Maybe this is mean and judgmental. People will come after me. But here's the deal. Your kids don't have a job. They can't drive to the store and get their own food. So if you As a parent, don't have any of this in the house. You say, this is what we made. Sorry. Then maybe they don't eat the first night, and that's on their own. And then, you know, they're going to be hungry and they're just going to eat what you have if there's no other options. If you stop giving them options, what else are they going to do?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Right, that.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That's called parenting.

[Unnamed Host]

Right?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

That's called parenting.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

The setting boundaries.

[Alex Clark]

When people say, like, when my kids hate it, if they refuse to eat.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

It, I'm like, too bad.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, but see, people will say, that's judgmental.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I don't care. So it's judgmental. Mean. But what do you care about being judgmental and mean or having a healthy kid in five or 10 years? Kids are unhealthy. And if we don't change that paradigm, you have a little bit of difficulty for a week, two weeks, a month, whatever it is, and then you're going to have a child who's not going to have a chronic disease. Then that's your job as a parent. And they might be upset at you for a couple minutes, but they won't. The kids that eat healthy, they're not being deprived. The food is better, trust me. Take them to a farmer's market, let.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Them try one of those apples or.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

One of those berries, they're going to like it a lot more. And if your kids don't like the cooking, you might not be the best cook. And that's like, not to say that to put something more on parents, but a lot of us didn't learn to cook. So if that's the case, then maybe you take a cooking class, maybe watch some things online. It matters how you prepare the food, for sure, but healthy, nutritious food, kids will eat it.

[Alex Clark]

And people have to understand when we talk about, like, the food is addictive, it is literally weaponized to addict you. That's why the, the food companies hired the cigarette scientists to create as addictive food as possible. That's why you've got seven different names, or it might be more than seven now, different names for msg, G and sugar and all of these different ingredients. It is. They are pumped with chemical ingredients that are more addicted than the heroin in some cases. So that is why your child is like screaming, throwing a tantrum, because they want the back, the box, macaroni and cheese, or, you know, the Oreos or whatever. And so you have to just like a. I mean, it is. It's like a Drug addict, you have to wean them off is. You know what I've learned from talking to experts like you. Obviously I haven't experienced this yet, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can from people like you.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Yeah, I learned that from Cali and, and it blew my mind, but not really. Yeah, Cali means that cigarette companies switched over to food. But that makes perfect sense. That is literally what happens. And I actually said even before I knew that for a long time that obesity is the new smoking. I mean, I really think that it's something that we have to come together to move in a different direction. Because it's nearly impossible in the food system right now for everybody to be.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Able to eat healthy.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

It doesn't exist as a food system.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

You, as a family, if you're willing.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

To spend the money and put in the effort, you could find good, healthy sources of food in general, even if to order a box or travel a little bit to get it. But as a society, we haven't set things up to offer people healthy food. And I think that is a bigger issue that we definitely need to focus on. But saying that poor people can't eat healthy is ridiculous. That is on us to make sure that we can offer things that are healthy, that can be affordable and, and to talk about race and class and all of these things. When it comes to food, every child deserves healthy food.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Everybody deserves healthy food.

[Alex Clark]

Propaganda. That is propaganda from the food companies.

[Unnamed Host]

To tell you that it's racist to eat this way, that it's classist to.

[Alex Clark]

Expect people to not eat ultra processed food, that you'll never be able to afford it. That is propaganda that you have been told to sell you their products.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, it's so infuriating, right?

[Unnamed Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I think as a, a practitioner, because it's so obvious in common sense that we should never say something like that. It's like you're saying that because somebody doesn't have the means that they shouldn't be able to eat good food. No, everybody should be able to eat good food. That's what that should be the norm. And if you want to have a snack every now and again, some sort of ultra.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

It should be available if you want it, I guess.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

I mean, I don't think it actually should be available. We should probably get rid of it all, but that's not going to happen, you know, but we can transition over 10 or 20 years to every community having a garden. Every community has parks. We could start building gardens for everybody to go to. We can Start having stores grow things on their roofs. I mean, it is possible to start.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Building farms in parking lots now.

[Alex Clark]

Yep, there's people doing that. We've got something like that in Phoenix. In the Gilbert area they've got something like that. In Dallas, it's like a whole farm or something like that that's vertical, like a, like a tall building.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

And then, you know, we hear year. Oh, but it's not possible. It's not sustainable and not everybody could have it. Well, we don't have to start from where we are with, you know, 95%, 99% all crap to everything's going to be homemade from a garden. But we can transition. I mean, even if 10 or 20%.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Of the food is available locally and.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

You can go get a little bit, a few things every week, that's going to start to move things in a better direction. People will start to feel healthier, they'll be more interested in eating that way. There'll be new jobs. I mean, people can start gardening because can be a government program that gardening in local areas and start teaching kids about these things. I mean, if we start that movement, it's going to change over 20 or 30 years. It's not going to happen in one day. But we can move money from ultra processed food to healthy food because it's our priority and because it's obviously needed. We need to have good food. It's what we're built of. We need nutrients and our food is crap and there's no way for us to be healthy in the food system right now.

[Alex Clark]

What advice do you have for the nurse or medical professional working in traditional medicine who are becoming disillusioned with the standard care model but feel paralyzed on what steps they can take next to just escape the matrix?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

To escape the matrix, I think you have to get outside of that system and start to look into integrative medicine and natural medicine. There's such a need for it that I think people are just scared to change. But I mean, at my practice we get so many applications every day for patients that we can't take most people that apply. I mean, there's such a need for it. And if you are interested in this, there are people that want your help. And if you're disillusioned, then start to learn about the other things and then open up your own practice or go work for a practitioner. You can look around. There's so many practices that need people. I mean, in Los Angeles, a huge city, there's like maybe three, four of us that are Integrative medicine practitioners. But people are starting to get interested in it.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

I'm getting messages more and more from.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

People in residency and medical school saying, this is so great, you know, what did you learn? What did you take? How did you do it? And I think that people don't feel like they can do this. And at the end of the day, integrative medicine, you don't even need to take a course, you don't need to do anything. You just be open to letting people do what they want to do and be open to having discussions. That's integrative medicine. Prevention, talking about diet, exercise, nutrition.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

That's integrative medicine.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

You don't have to get so woo woo and, and you don't have to be a homeopathic practitioner or do acupuncture. You can if you want to, that's great. But even if you're just open to having discussions with families, talking about what.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

They'Re doing at home, talking about the.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Root cause, that's integrative medicine. And that is so needed and people will be lining up for you. So there's no reason to be afraid of it. The movement is that way.

[Alex Clark]

If you could offer any remedy to heal a sick culture, what would it be?

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

It would be changing our food system.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So to me, if there's one thing that, that as a parent we could do specifically for our family, it's to read food labels, I would say, or just labels in general. Read the label on everything you buy from now on. You do not need to be a chemist to understand what's going on on that food label. If it's a long chemical word, you don't know what it is, it's probably not good for you. Put it back. Find things that have words that you know. You don't have to go from chips to broccoli, but you can get two bags of chips and you can look at the ingredients and buy the better bag and, and it adds up. Every little decision matters and we need to take our power back. I think if we start to decide that the decisions that we make matter. Yes, then you're going to prioritize health. And if we stop prioritizing cheaper, faster, better, and we prioritize health as part of that equation, then you will slowly see your family's health change. Change. And if everybody does that, then the companies will change because they're not going to sell things that don't sell.

[Alex Clark]

Remind everybody what the name of your practice is and are you accepting new patients?

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

So our office is accepting new patients every now and again I'll accept some, but the practice is integrative. Pediatrics and I'm in Los Angeles.

[Alex Clark]

Where can people follow you on social.

[Dr. Joel Warsh]

Media so they can follow me on X or Instagram @Doctor Joel Gator and they can get the book Parenting at your child's page. You know everywhere that books are sold on Amazon or parenting@your childspace.com thank you.

[Alex Clark]

Dr. Gator for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[Unnamed Pediatrician]

Thanks for having me.

[Alex Clark]

My idea behind this week's two episodes was to invite two different pediatricians to discuss some of the most controversial decisions often made in children's healthcare. Because I know my parents in the audience may be attending some family gatherings this Christmas season where you're asked to pass the potatoes and defend some of the parenting decisions you may have made. I hope that now you feel prepared to do that and encouraged to stay on this path.

[Unnamed Host]

Please leave a five star review as a Christmas gift to me and tell.

[Alex Clark]

Others why they should listen to Culture Apothecary. We are on a mission to heal a sick culture. Twice a week, new guests bring a unique remedy.

[Unnamed Host]

Subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube.

[Alex Clark]

And follow me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark. It's Christmas.

[Unnamed Host]

If you love the show, tell your loved ones you want merch for a gift. Tpusamerch.com Code Alex Clark for 10 off.

[Alex Clark]

New episodes every Monday and Thursday at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.