Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark: Is IVF a Huge Ethical Mistake? | Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, MD
Release Date: April 18, 2025
In this compelling episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex Clark engages in a profound discussion with Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, a physician specializing in psychiatry and bioethics surrounding reproductive technology. Dr. Kheriaty's insights shed light on the ethical complexities of In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) and emerging reproductive technologies, challenging listeners to reconsider widely held beliefs about fertility treatments.
1. Introduction to Dr. Aaron Kheriaty
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty is introduced as one of the most credentialed yet controversial physicians on the show. His expertise in bioethics and reproductive technology provides a foundation for the critical examination of IVF practices.
Alex Clark [00:25]: "You are one of the most credentialed doctors I've ever had on the show. You are also probably the most controversial."
2. Ethical Concerns Surrounding IVF
Dr. Kheriaty argues that IVF cannot be performed in a completely ethical manner, primarily due to the destruction of embryos during the process.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [00:13]: "Many healthy viable embryos are being destroyed in the IVF process. A petri dish is not a perfectly conducive environment for human life and no one ever asked their permission to do this."
He likens the ethical dilemmas of IVF to the early 20th-century eugenics movement, highlighting the revival of discriminatory practices under the guise of genetic selection.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [12:35]: "Eugenics sort of went underground. But what's happening now with preimplantation genetic testing is that those same discriminatory attitudes are basically being revived in our attitude toward the creation of new human life."
3. IVF Practices: United States vs. Other Countries
The conversation delves into the unregulated nature of IVF in the United States compared to stricter regulations in other countries. Dr. Kheriaty cites the infamous case of the "Octomon" in California, where a rogue IVF physician implanted eight embryos, leading to the birth of eight children.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [20:30]: "IVF in the United States is very unregulated and the laws in different countries vary."
4. Preimplantation Genetic Testing and Its Implications
Dr. Kheriaty criticizes preimplantation genetic testing (PGT) for perpetuating eugenic ideals by selecting embryos based on perceived genetic fitness. He warns against the slippery slope of valuing human life based on uncontrollable genetic attributes.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [10:58]: "We take human life that should be received as a gift and turn it into a project of our own creation. It becomes a kind of quality control manufacturing process."
5. The Dilemma of Embryo Adoption
The topic shifts to embryo adoption, where Dr. Kheriaty expresses mixed feelings. While it offers a chance for embryos to have life, he notes the ethical challenges and the insufficient number of adoptive parents to handle the millions of embryos in storage.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [28:55]: "I'm sympathetic to people that want to do that. It does show some respect and regard for the value of human life. But on the other hand, I don't think that is the solution to sort of take the problems associated with IVF and propose this is the way to fix them."
6. Health Risks and Lack of Transparency in IVF
Dr. Kheriaty raises concerns about the long-term health risks for children conceived via IVF, including higher rates of metabolic syndrome and autism. He criticizes the IVF industry's lack of transparency and insufficient research into these potential health issues.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [27:43]: "Children born of IVF have higher rates of certain chronic medical conditions than the general population."
7. Class Inequality in Access to IVF
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the class disparities in accessing IVF, as it remains prohibitively expensive and typically unaffordable for those in lower economic brackets. This creates a form of class-based eugenics where only the wealthy can afford reproductive technologies.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [39:41]: "IVF is offered to people that can pay for it. And the genetic testing that often goes hand in hand with IVF... these are services that are offered to the wealthy."
8. Restorative Reproductive Medicine: An Ethical Alternative
Dr. Kheriaty advocates for Restorative Reproductive Medicine (RRM) as a more ethical and potentially more successful alternative to IVF. RRM focuses on diagnosing and correcting the underlying causes of infertility rather than bypassing them with IVF.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [45:08]: "Restorative reproductive medicine is an umbrella term for... treating infertility by correcting the underlying cause."
9. Emerging Technologies: In Vitro Gametogenesis (IVG)
The conversation culminates with a discussion on the nascent technology of In Vitro Gametogenesis (IVG), which could revolutionize reproduction by creating gametes from skin cells. Dr. Kheriaty warns of the profound ethical and social implications, including potential genetic theft and the reshaping of familial structures.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [66:53]: "IVG could allow for two men to have a genetically related child or two women to have a genetically related child... it's a project that's going to turn out well, but it will be sold even to conservatives."
10. Dr. Kheriaty's Recommendations for Healing Culture
In closing, Dr. Kheriaty emphasizes the importance of face-to-face connections to combat societal loneliness and advocates for reconnecting with spiritual practices to foster holistic well-being.
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [84:09]: "Get away from your screens and connect with real people in face-to-face encounters. And we need to reconnect with God through prayer as well."
Key Takeaways:
- Ethical Concerns: IVF inherently involves ethical dilemmas, primarily the destruction of embryos and the revival of eugenic principles.
- Regulation Issues: The United States lacks stringent regulations on IVF, leading to practices that may not be ethically sound.
- Class Inequality: Access to IVF is limited to the affluent, perpetuating class-based disparities in reproductive capabilities.
- Alternative Approaches: Restorative Reproductive Medicine offers a promising ethical alternative by addressing the root causes of infertility.
- Future Technologies: Emerging technologies like IVG pose significant ethical challenges that society must address proactively.
- Cultural Healing: Strengthening personal connections and spiritual practices are essential for healing societal ailments.
Notable Quotes:
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [00:13]: "Many healthy viable embryos are being destroyed in the IVF process."
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [10:58]: "It becomes a kind of quality control manufacturing process."
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [28:55]: "I don't think that is the solution to sort of take the problems associated with IVF and propose this is the way to fix them."
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [39:41]: "These are services that are offered to the wealthy."
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [45:08]: "Restorative reproductive medicine is... treating infertility by correcting the underlying cause."
- Dr. Aaron Kheriaty [66:53]: "IVG could... it's a project that's going to turn out well, but it will be sold even to conservatives."
This episode serves as a thought-provoking exploration of the ethical landscape surrounding IVF and future reproductive technologies, urging listeners to engage in deeper reflection and informed conversations about the moral implications of these advancements.