← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Restoring Childhood Magic With A Waldorf Education | Acorn Nature School
01:27:51
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- [00:00]
Alex Clark
I do not care if they are reading or not. Before the age of like 8 years old, I don't care. Personally, I don't. That irks so many moms.
- [00:10]
Star
Across America, your child should be playing outside in nature until they are seven. When you hear a story, it makes you feel something. When you just read the letter A and you do a worksheet, you're not feeling anything. You're feeling bored.
- [00:21]
Alex Clark
There's something about Waldorf education. It's just magic.
- [00:26]
Star
Acorn School is doing the art, the beeswax, the song songs, the storytelling. The magic of being in nature with other children has public school snuffed out.
- [00:36]
Alex Clark
Childhood in this country?
- [00:37]
Star
Children have no time to be children.
- [00:39]
Alex Clark
Make children children. When was the last time you pictured learning as beautiful? When someone says classroom, what do you picture? Do you imagine children sitting at desks, quietly walking in straight lines, staring at beige walls? Or do you picture colorful ribbons and fairy tales? Imaginative play, nature. Climbing trees, singing songs around a campfire, baking bread, or running barefoot through a meadow with the wind blowing through your hair? Perhaps you feel like the ladder is dead and gone. That sort of education doesn't exist in America anymore. It's a relic of the past. What if I told you it does? In small little pockets across the country, Waldorf style nature schools are popping up, offering children a learning experience where play is number one and childhood is filled with magic and wonder. I've talked about homeschool, but I haven't dedicated an episode until now spending specifically on Waldorf education. Waldorf education has been a secret dream of mine for my kids. But I also know I want to homeschool. And so one thing when I was looking into this is I just thought, ugh, I wish that there was a way that I could kind of do both. But I just didn't see anything that really offered that. You know, I was thinking Waldorf a few hours a week in the little years to foster imaginative play and this love of learning. But I knew that I wanted to homeschool, and so I just thought, you know, I wish it was possible to do both.
- [02:29]
Star
And.
- [02:29]
Alex Clark
And that is when I came across the Acorn School here in the Phoenix area where I live. It's a mix of Waldorf Nature School, Charlotte Mason and homeschool. And I was sold. Here to discuss all things Waldorf and why it is such a unique childhood education style are the founders of the Acorn School star and Emily Rose. Emily Rose is a former public school teacher, and she has some very juicy things to say. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Spotify, where you'll also see a vlog of me participating in one of their school days. This show is made possible with tax deductible donations from listeners like you who believe in our mission to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally and spiritually. The link is in the show notes or you can leave a free 5 star review to help the show. Please welcome the founders of the Acorn School and co hosts of the under the Oak podcast star and Emily Rose to culture Apothecary. I was so excited to come across your school because if I am blessed with children one day and I am still living in the Phoenix area, this is where I want to send my kids. There's something about Waldorf education. It's just magic. What does Waldorf education mean?
- [03:44]
Star
Well, it was invented by somebody named Rudolf Steiner. And I'm not sure how much you know about Rudolf Steiner, but I actually think you would love his work because he was also a biodynamic farmer and he was a philosopher, he was a scientist. He studied human development, child development. So his works were very popular in Germany after the First World War. And the first Waldorf school started in 1919 in Germany, and it was actually in a cigarette factory. The purpose was to basically bridge the social gap for these factory workers, children. So Rudolf Steiner, the person who owned the factory, he wanted a school for the children in his factory. And he was a follower of Rudolf Steiner. So he reached out to him and said, hey, can you use your wealth of knowledge and experience to create a school for these children to really bridge the social gap and hope that these factory worker children can become whole people, to become something one day. So the philosophy that he created, they call it a whole child approach. So it is about not just, you know, academics, not just how much, you know, your cognitive wealth. It's about who you are, mind, body, spirit, soul. And so the purpose is to cultivate all of that within a child.
- [05:16]
Emily Rose
The main thing about, like Waldorf is the importance of looking at a child as an individual being. They are who they are and they really take into consideration, like, you're not just like trying to cram in as much knowledge as possible. Like, you're looking at the child, their interests from their head, their creativity from their heart, and then really getting their hands to be able to work with things so that it all comes together to form who that child is meant to be.
- [05:46]
Star
A complete and whole being.
- [05:47]
Alex Clark
Yeah, I love that. The head, heart, hands. Yes, that's like a whole thing with Waldorf schools.
- [05:52]
Emily Rose
Yeah.
- [05:53]
Alex Clark
So there's always an activity that's going to address all three of those things.
- [05:56]
Star
Kind of. It's actually based on the different child development ages. Oh, and by the way, to preface this.
- [06:04]
Emily Rose
Oh, yeah, before we get too far.
- [06:06]
Star
Into this, we are not experts. We are not trained Waldorf teachers. We're not certified Waldorf teachers. I'm a homeschool mom. I have three kids. I went to Waldorf school as a kid and, and as I got older and as I had kids, I did a lot of research on this and I planned to homeschool, but I wanted to do it in a Waldorf way.
- [06:24]
Emily Rose
And then I am not a certified Waldorf teacher. I did all of my education with early childhood, and then I did public school teaching. But then through a star, she introduced this to me and I just love it. I love Waldorf, everything about it. So we just are deeply inspired by it. And that's how ACORN school was.
- [06:44]
Star
So we've done a lot of research. I just wanted to say that because sometimes the haters come at you and they're like, well, you're not a certified Waldorf teacher. You, you know, haven't been trained in Waldorf education. And there's a lot of dogma that can surround Waldorf education and other education styles. So we just wanted to say, as I'm telling you all of this, this is based on my own experience and research and not, I don't know who the Waldorf gods are, but it's not from them. So the early childhood is from ages 1 to 7. And in Wald philosophy, basically that is your willing stage or the hand stage. So this is when children are learning through hands on work. And like a, a one year old is learning to walk over and over again, you are learning how to do something. Little children are doing things with their hands, they're doing things with their bodies, they're learning how to move, they're learning how to, you know, integrate their fingers. The crossover with crawling, there's a lot of development that's just happening within their body. And so they call that the hand stage or the willing stage in Waldorf. So this is one of the critiques of Waldorf education that people get is before age 7, they really don't focus on reading, they don't focus on math.
- [07:58]
Alex Clark
And I love this. And this is the thing. One of the most radical things about me and what I want to do with my future kids is I do not care if they are reading or not. Before the age of like 8 years old. I don't care. Personally, I don't. That irks so many moms across America, but I just feel like that is, like, a weird standard.
- [08:18]
Emily Rose
Do you know where it comes from, though?
- [08:19]
Alex Clark
No. I'm sure the public school model is that you have to be reading by.
- [08:23]
Emily Rose
Especially people that, like, you went through public school, so you have that frantic, like, oh, my gosh, you have to know how to, like, read. Oh, my gosh, you're behind. Like, you're not ahead. Like, I feel like those are children that grow up to be adults and parents, and then they get scared that their children by age 3 doesn't know all their sounds and their letters, and they're switching their Bs and their Ds, and it's, like, so scary and horrifying. And I think it's because when they were a kid that all that pressure is put on you, and it's not.
- [08:52]
Star
A whole child approach. So they're not thinking about, how is my child feeling? How is my child working with their bodies? How is my child doing on a personal level? They're just thinking, how much information does my child know? You know, can they read? Can they do this? Can. Do they do that yet? Oh, my child doesn't know the sound for a, B or C or whatever it might be. And it's insane because they're not mentally, developmentally ready.
- [09:17]
Alex Clark
So your children at the Waldorf school before age 7, are they learning things like letters and numbers? Numbers, or you don't even. They don't even know what count.
- [09:26]
Star
We don't do any of that at Acorn School. Now, what's unique about Acorn School is it's a homeschool enrichment program. So each family is doing whatever they want to do at home. So there's a lot of autonomy. So some of the kids know how to read, and they're 4 years old. And some of the kids, like, my child is 6, and he doesn't know how to read yet. We haven't pushed it because he's not interested in it. Anytime I've introduced, here's the letters or here's, you know, this or that. Do you want to learn how to read? He's like, he likes to be read to. He loves storytelling. He's very smart, but he's just not interested yet in that. So I don't want to sacrifice my relationship with my child by forcing something on him at home. As a homeschool mother, I want to wait till he's engaging and interested in reading.
- [10:11]
Alex Clark
Do kids seem to learn more whenever they actually want to. Like, if you wait for that moment for them, be like, hey, I. I think I want to learn how to read now.
- [10:18]
Emily Rose
Yes. And that's why our enrichment program is so lovely, because the kids, we have themes, and we provide a lot of, you know, stimulus and things for them to do. But it's always fascinating to see, like, which kids are super into our different themes or our different activities. And it changes every week. And it's just really cool because there's. We do hand work, and you can just tell the kids that are, like, very into, like, sewing, and they're just, like, sitting there taking their time, doing their thing. And then the kids that try it, and then they're good. But the next week, those kids are really into beeswax. And so I feel like that type of environment can only lead into the academic parts, too. Like, when they're ready, when they're excited about it, that's just when they go all in.
- [11:05]
Star
Well, and what she's referencing is Waldorf is very focused on art. Art is brought into every single aspect of education. So when they are older and they're learning math and they're learning science and they're learning how to read, they incorporate art into all of that, whether that's watercolor, painting, drawing, putting on plays. I remember when I was a kid in Waldorf school, we acted out plays. There's always that form of learning through love, through your heart, you know, through your feeling life, which is what art creates.
- [11:36]
Alex Clark
Remember whenever we used to put on a play to convince our parents to let a friend spend the night, or we would, like, do a little concert or something? That's what Waldorf kids are just doing all the time.
- [11:44]
Star
Doing all the time at sleepovers were, like, acting out dramatic scenes. They're doing it at school.
- [11:50]
Alex Clark
What is the next stage after this willing stage? Then what's the next age range of Waldorf?
- [11:56]
Star
The last thing to say about the willing stage is Waldorf education basically says your child should be playing outside in nature until they are seven. That is their main form of education, is to be outside playing in nature, experiencing what the real world is like. So that is the goal. But before seven, and then once they hit age seven, between seven and 14, which is what they call the feeling realm, or in the hands, head and heart. It would be the heart. And during that time is when they start to introduce academics. So, like reading, writing, arithmetic, those the three Rs that they call. So that's, you know, we're starting to add Those things. But the way they would do it would be interesting. Like, say one day was focused on the letter A. What they would do is instead of just like, here's the letter A and here's the sound it makes, and here's a worksheet and write it five times. And they would sing a song about the letter A. They'd do art regarded around the letter A, and they'll storytell. So storytelling is involved in everything. So it's not just textbook learning. The teacher actually is learning through their own imparted knowledge. And they're going to tell a story, not read a story out of a book, but they're going to be engaging in storytelling. Storytelling is so if you think about your podcast, even how these stories are reaching people, it's the personal stories that people hear and they go, oh, that happened to me. Or I relate to that. That's so.
- [13:20]
Alex Clark
What do you mean a personal story about the letter A?
- [13:23]
Star
They'll make something up, you know, on the spot.
- [13:25]
Alex Clark
Improv.
- [13:26]
Star
It might not be a personal story.
- [13:27]
Alex Clark
Like there once was a little troll, his name was Alexander. Like that.
- [13:30]
Star
Alexander started with A, and he went to pick an apple out of the poisonous apple tree. And then, you know, whatever. They create something that engages a child, that makes them feel something. That's why call it the feeling years, because when you hear a story, it makes you feel something. When you just read the letter A and you do a worksheet, you're not feeling anything. You're feeling bored. You're feeling like. You're feeling like somebody told me, yeah, like, I want to go play outside. That's what you're feeling. So. But when you're engaged in a very exciting. Your teacher is yelling and throwing things and acting something out or drawing a beautiful picture on the. On the board. When I was in Waldorf school, the teachers. So when we were starting this process of learning all these different things, they call it the Waldorf blackboard. That's very cliche. Waldorf and teachers. And you've probably seen it on social media, even they draw these gorgeous pictures.
- [14:24]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Is that a prerequisite to be a Waldorf teacher? You've got to be like, amazing.
- [14:30]
Star
Yeah. The people that go into Waldorf education are usually artists. They have musical backgrounds. They. Or theater backgrounds and. Or musicians. They usually have a specialty. So maybe not every teacher can do every single one of those things, but.
- [14:45]
Alex Clark
That'S where you combine. You have a couple teachers at a school with different skills. Like, you guys have different skills.
- [14:50]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [14:51]
Star
Well, I'm Not a teacher, I'm the mother. I come with my kids in the visionary of Acorn School, but I'm not actually a teacher. So Emily Rose is a teacher.
- [15:00]
Emily Rose
Yeah. I started off as the sole teacher at Acorn School, but then now we have our lovely other teachers that I've been able to train and impart my. We've trained a few skills and strategies there. Yes.
- [15:13]
Star
We co founded it so it was kind of co op style. So a co op traditionally is a bunch of moms get together and they do different parts of a curriculum with their children. Right. So there's a group of people that do a co op. So Acorn School was kind of inspired by this co op style of learning, but I wanted a Waldorf co op, but I didn't want. I have three little kids, I have a baby, I have a three year old, I have a six year old. So I am busy. I don't have the time to teach a class and if I tried to teach a class, my one year old is going to be screaming and doing all these things. And what's the point of homeschooling if I'm going to drop my kid off a daycare so I can go teach at this homeschool co op? I'm not going to do that. I'm there with my kids. So the point I wanted, I was like, I need to find a teacher who can. We can do this as a co op style where all the moms attend. We get the social aspect of it, but we have a teacher that actually teaches the lessons every week. So that's where Emily Rose came in.
- [16:10]
Emily Rose
I had just not renewed my content contract with public school and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. My husband and I wanted to start a family because I did want to homeschool. So we were preparing for that, but it wasn't happening right away. So I had plenty of free time. And so she approached me with it and I was thrilled because it's everything I love about teaching without all of the public school admission.
- [16:38]
Alex Clark
What were your biggest frustrations at the end? Being a public school teacher.
- [16:41]
Emily Rose
So the thing that really kind of broke the camel's back was my last year of teaching. I was volun told to teach kindergarten. And even though I have a degree in early childhood, kindergarten was never something that I was interested in teaching. Just from having to see the first month of school, it seemed very traumatic. All the teachers would be on high alert because kindergarteners coming in that hadn't been separated from their parents it was quite sad to go walk down that hallway.
- [17:17]
Star
She has terrific stories.
- [17:18]
Emily Rose
It was just like the kids crying.
- [17:20]
Alex Clark
You think there's a lot of kids that are not ready for kindergarten and their parents are putting them in there because they think it's the right thing to do?
- [17:26]
Emily Rose
Yes. No. And then so I had to experience that by teaching kindergarten. And I was very nervous. The first two weeks were very sad. Everyone's always full hands on deck in the kindergarten hallway because there's crying, screaming, dragging into kicking and flailing. I had a boy that was so distraught, his mom had to drag him into my classroom, put him on the carpet, run out the door. The vice principal had to hold my door shut and I had to stand there. And the little boy was just losing it. And I have never felt more like a monster because it was just like the attachment from their parents. Yeah, that was so. It was a lot of like that. And it was just too much for me especially. Cause I didn't want it. I was volunteering.
- [18:14]
Star
I wanted children in your classroom.
- [18:16]
Emily Rose
Oh, Yeah. I had 33 kindergarteners by myself.
- [18:20]
Alex Clark
By yourself.
- [18:21]
Emily Rose
A month and a half before they hired another teacher to make it smaller.
- [18:24]
Alex Clark
And so in that month and a half, 33 kindergarteners to one teacher. How much do you think those kids were really learning?
- [18:30]
Emily Rose
Oh, I mean, probably not much. I think we were honestly just learning like how to exist in the classroom.
- [18:38]
Alex Clark
But is there benefits to that? Is there so some parents? Was that that. Yeah, that's the point of kindergarten is my kid just needs to know how to be away from me. Knows how to sit, be quiet.
- [18:46]
Emily Rose
Yeah, that's.
- [18:46]
Star
That's what you learn.
- [18:47]
Emily Rose
That's literally what you learned in kindergarten.
- [18:49]
Star
Yeah.
- [18:49]
Emily Rose
In kindergarten it sets you up to be able to function in the public school system. We're teaching that you cannot go to the bathroom all the time when you need to. You have to be able to wait. You cannot speak unless you raise your hand. You need to sit in your seat and you need to be still so that you can absorb the information that I'm trying to at you for six hours. And you know, you have to be able to transition without getting upset. And then all on top of that.
- [19:17]
Star
Basically, like social conforming.
- [19:18]
Emily Rose
Yes. No. And then on top of that, as a teacher, I am having the admin force of a thousand suns shining down on me to make sure all of my scores are where they need to be. These kids need to be learning all their letters. They need to be reading small sentences by the time I send them to first grade. Otherwise I'm a horrible teacher. And it's just, it was too much. My mental health just whoosh. And I just couldn't do it anymore. Not to make it in too intense.
- [19:47]
Alex Clark
Yeah, not to make it too intense, but we're, we're making sure that your kids know how to be prisoners. Okay, So I want to go back to this. You mentioned that this feeling stage ends at 14. Now I imagine a 14 year old boy is not going to want to sit there to listen about like a gnome with the letter a name or whatever. I, I'm assuming that it's different. How would the feeling stage be different for a 14 year old versus the 7 year old?
- [20:12]
Star
I would say that a 14 year old boy, by the time they're into that, those teenage years, they have academically continued to increase. So they're doing science, they're doing experiments, they are doing woodworking classes, they're learning, you know, appro. Age appropriate things as they get older. That's kind of the point though is that it's age appropriate and they're still storytelling. And these, these boys that are in there are probably into doing a play. They're probably can build themselves a bench. They can probably do a lot of things that your typical video game playing 14 year old boy is not going to be interested in. Because they've been raised in a way that individual person, they've been engaged by storytelling. They're, they're probably much more creative. They're probably, you know, doing things at home, starting their own businesses because they have that different way of looking at the world. They're also focused on compassion, creating, you know, bravery, these character traits that you want a child to have. They're, they're teaching those through storytelling.
- [21:16]
Emily Rose
So Waldorf is like the philosophy and the way they teach children is a lot more effective and that's why it works where public school. I feel like the word, if I had to pick a word would probably be ineffective because they constantly are creating problems for themselves that they're trying to fix. But then it, it pops up with 10 other problems. Like the reason why they have to start so early with getting kids to try to read and know their letters Is because there's 30 of them to one teacher. So it's almost like you're trying to throw out a large net as much as you can because you know, If I had 10 kids in my class, I could get a lot more done than 30 when I'm trying to meet all of their needs. You have to start younger to be.
- [22:05]
Star
Able to meet what they need standards later on. Exactly. This person, this kid. To be able to read at a second grade level, you got to start in Pre because there's 30 kids and there's chaos and nothing is efficient. So you have to just drill it in until they can meet those standards later on.
- [22:27]
Alex Clark
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- [27:28]
Star
There's less of it for sure. Okay, so there's less Waldorf schools in general. They don't go through the one I went through, went through high school. I didn't go through high school, but a lot of my friends from when I was little did. So it is a lot less common. I think our culture is not prone to that. You know, it's, it's just like people probably become afraid, like do they know enough or they getting enough or I need to put them into public school. Now for me, I went to public school because my mom moved across the country and we didn't have the same school available to me, so I had to go to public school after that. So I just think that they fizzle out later on, but I don't think it's less effective. I don't think they become less of a well rounded person by going especially.
- [28:15]
Emily Rose
Having the foundation of their early years with having them be the center of.
- [28:21]
Star
Their education haven't even addressed yet is 14 to 21. So then the last, last stage of waldorf education from 14 to 21 is the thinking stage. So this is where in high school and beyond high school and college, you're really focused on that cognitive understanding of things. So it's not that there's no reading, writing, arithmetic, and any cognitive learning prior to 14, but that's really when you're ready to understand concepts. By the time you've learned how to use your hands, you've learned how to understand things with your heart. Now you can start to think about things very rationally and critically because you have those fundamental elements.
- [28:59]
Alex Clark
At what age is the typical Waldorf family starting the process of learning to read with their kid? On average, I would say, well, it's.
- [29:07]
Star
Actually interesting the way people could gauge this. So one of the Rudolf Steiner's philosophies is that when your child starts to lose teeth is when they're ready.
- [29:16]
Alex Clark
So that would be like six, seven.
- [29:17]
Emily Rose
Yeah.
- [29:17]
Star
So my son has lost four teeth, now he's six. And so that's just in my mind. I'm still not forcing anything on him, but I'm like, okay, he probably is developmentally starting to have more skills to use that brain power differently than he's been. And I actually just got all of my homeschool curriculum ready for that right now. So once again, I'm not gonna, it's gonna be a very gentle process, but I've gotten a lot of stuff together for reading and for learning the Alphabet, learning the letter, satisfaction that we're going to start to integrate at home. And I also have a three year old, so it's different at home. So I'm a homeschool mom. It might be different in Waldorf schools, but as a homeschool mom I can just cater it to what my children need. And I have a three and a half year old daughter. And the difference between having a six year old boy and a three and a half year old daughter and the way their attention spans last, the things they're interested in is so different that I actually think my daughter and my son will be learning this stuff together.
- [30:19]
Alex Clark
Wow.
- [30:20]
Star
Cuz I think that she'll want to sit and learn as we read a story about a. She's going to be interested in that. And she likes to sit in color and she likes to sit and paint and she has way more of a bandwidth for that where he, he wants to do stuff with his hands. He loves to mold beeswax, he loves to do things, but then he wants to go bounce off the walls and do something else.
- [30:37]
Alex Clark
He's.
- [30:38]
Star
She will sit there for, with me much longer. So I actually think because I homeschool my 3 year old and my 6 year old are, are cognitively going to be learning similar things.
- [30:49]
Alex Clark
Is your school basically just. Would you say it's a Walder school or would you say it's a nature school or would you say it's both?
- [30:55]
Star
I would say it's both, yes. And it's also an enrichment program. So the difference between a school and an enrichment program is that a school is responsible for all of that. They're responsible for teaching, teaching you to read, teaching you to write, you know, to learn math. All of that Acorn school is just an enrichment program for homeschoolers well, the parent. Parents are responsible for teaching all of that at home. We are doing the art, the beeswax, the songs, the storytelling, the magic of being in nature with other children. We're creating that side of Waldorf education for people, for homeschoolers.
- [31:30]
Alex Clark
How many times a week do kids come and for how long are these classes?
- [31:35]
Emily Rose
So we have classes running Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. So different children, but different children come. So we have different age groups and we also have different inspirations. So we have our Waldorf classes that are a majority. We have our 4 to 7 year old ones and we have one 8 to 12 year old one. So they can come.
- [32:00]
Star
I mean, so most children come once a week for three hours, but some children come twice a week. So some children are in our Waldorf class and a Charlotte Mason class class. So they come on Mondays, you know, for three hours and they get their Waldorf enrichment. And then they come on Thursdays for three hours and they get their Charlotte Mason enrichment.
- [32:18]
Emily Rose
And we do have some families that double dip in our Waldorf classes because we have an English and then we also have a Spanish as well, where we have our Spanish teacher who's wonderful and she slowly integrates in a lot of Spanish vocabulary into what they're doing.
- [32:33]
Star
So, like my children go twice a week and we do the English and the Spanish. Well, dirt classes.
- [32:37]
Alex Clark
How big are the class sizes?
- [32:39]
Star
When we were indoors, they're 15.
- [32:41]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [32:41]
Star
Because it's smaller and we live in Arizona. So during the summer months we had to move indoors to a rock climbing gym.
- [32:47]
Alex Clark
So it was all year round.
- [32:48]
Star
All year round. But we work in a rock climbing gym in the summer and Those classes are 15 children total.
- [32:54]
Emily Rose
But the reason why it's helpful too. So we have the parents stay the whole time. So our teachers are only having to focus on the children and the lesson and the stories and the craft where if there's any type of social disputes amongst the children, the parents can be there to impart their family values and help their child with that type of aspect. So that our teachers aren't having to deal with any.
- [33:23]
Star
They don't have to deal with the kid gets hurt. They don't have to deal with if the kid gets their feelings hurt. If something happens, the mothers are there and that's we. I personally believe in attachment is really important with children. And that was also part of why this was invented is I looked around for the Waldorf stuff too here in Arizona, and I was like, I love Waldorf, so what could I put My child in everything. Either I had to drop him off for hours or even if it was short term drop off. It was just like I couldn't be there. I kept thinking like, I don't want to be away from my child. I want to be with my child child. But I want to experience, I want him to experience this magic of being in a Waldorf setting. So I was like, let's make something where I can go with my kid. And the beauty of that, I didn't know what happened is there's so many moms that want the same thing. They want to go places with their child.
- [34:18]
Alex Clark
You and I both use that word magic to describe Waldorf education. What is magical about Waldorf?
- [34:25]
Star
It's beautiful. One of the things is, it's, it's the natural beauty. So it's not just like fluorescent, bright neon colors. There's. They use all natural elements. So wood, watercolor, being in nature with other children, the music, the songs, the, you know, the interactions with all of.
- [34:46]
Emily Rose
It'S the very peaceful. And I can attest to that because I have tried. Well, I've had to try many different curriculums and they've switched and I've had to relearn. And the Waldorf way of teaching children is so relaxing and peaceful and non threatening and just really like I. The best way I can say it just, there's no anxiety in it because I feel like in school I even have leftover childhood anxiety from test taking and needing to perform and having all those pressures and oh, I'm not as good at math as my friend. I must just be bad at math. Like, you know, even though I'm not, that's not how I learned that. But, you know, they won't let me do it the way I learn it because that's not how they're teaching me. And so I feel like with Waldorf, they're a lot more just kind of focusing on like, oh, well, like how does this child learn and when are they ready to learn it? And they don't do great. So there's no like, comparison. And so we just love having that. There's no testing yet. We love bringing that to the, these families because it's just magic things.
- [35:57]
Star
Like we do lantern festivals where the children make lanterns and we go out at night after dark together and we sing lantern songs and go on walks. And there's so many elements that we're creating magic. We're creating these memories that I have as a child. I remember the May Day festival where we all dress in Flower crowns. And we, we walk around the maypole with our ribbons and we dance and we sing and like preserve childhood, that is childhood is to be able to sing and dance and play and explore and not be bogged down in a room at a desk, fluorescent lights, just, you know, writing your outfit and being.
- [36:37]
Emily Rose
At school for six hours. Oh, but then when you get home, you can't play. You have two hours of homework.
- [36:41]
Star
You have to do more homework. Yeah.
- [36:43]
Emily Rose
So sorry.
- [36:44]
Star
And. Or you go straight to your competitive sport and straight to, you know, all these different things. Children have no time to be children.
- [36:51]
Alex Clark
Has public school snuffed out childhood in this country?
- [36:55]
Star
A thousand percent.
- [36:56]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [36:57]
Star
A thousand percent.
- [36:58]
Alex Clark
Make children children again.
- [37:00]
Emily Rose
Make children children.
- [37:01]
Star
Yes, yes. Bring back childhood.
- [37:03]
Emily Rose
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Alex Clark
Our children biologically predisposed to take charge of their own education.
- [37:09]
Star
Yes, a hundred percent. That was the design when we were hunter gatherers. What were they doing? What were the hunter gatherer communities doing? Putting their kids in a box over there. And what were they doing? They were learning alongside their parents. They were playing. Play is actually. Mammals are biologically designed to use play to learn. That's how you figure things out. That's how you find your limits. That's how you figure out how a tool works. You know, if a kid in a hunter gatherer communities, they had the same tools their parents did. What were they doing? They were playing with them. And there's also mixed age groups. Is really an interesting conversation with that too. Because our society is meant to be with mixed age groups. So the little ones were learning from the older children and the older children were imparting things they learned, which helps them learn more.
- [38:00]
Alex Clark
But you guys do separate ages, no?
- [38:03]
Emily Rose
Yeah, so we have age groups. Groups. So we have four to seven year olds, so there is that variety. And then we have 8 to 12.
- [38:10]
Alex Clark
Okay, I see.
- [38:10]
Emily Rose
So there's a. There is a little mix.
- [38:12]
Alex Clark
It's not only 7 year olds, only 8 year olds.
- [38:14]
Emily Rose
Where in, you know, public school they have them. I think you'll only have like a couple months, year and a half. So a lot of. Because you're with your peers for six hours, that's basically who you're learning from. Yeah, that's how you're adjusting your life. You're attached to your peers. And then there's the teacher. But the teacher changes everything year also.
- [38:35]
Star
With the mixed age group, at least at Acorn school, toddlers come with their parents and babies come because the whole family is there. The whole family comes, grandmothers come. It's really a community. So it's interesting because in the classes, the 4, 4 to 7 year olds and the 8 to 12 year olds are at the same time, so they interact also because there's a lot of free play. So our classes actually have from 1 year old to 12 year old children interacting with each other all the time. If you made 1 year olds go to school, they would think you had to teach them how to walk. People would think that I, you know, there's all these steps and there's this curriculum of how to learn how to walk. But children obviously teach themselves how to walk through trial and error. They do it over and over and over again because they want to. That's how a 12 year old would naturally learn too. They would teach themselves whatever it is that they needed to learn. But we have completely forgotten that. We as a society have just lost touch with how we naturally learn. And that's why I love unschooling. I don't know if you're familiar with unschooling, but I, as a parent am a big fan of unschooling. And I'm, I mean, I'm one of those crazy people that's willing to take the risk.
- [39:45]
Alex Clark
What is that? For somebody who doesn't know what unschooling is, what is it?
- [39:48]
Star
It is not school. It is the opposite of school. It is deschooling. It's going. School was this construction that was created to do what? Create factory workers. That's what school was for. So unschooling has the belief of we didn't need this anyways. This was never necessary. You think? I love it how people like the propaganda is like, those poor kids didn't know how to read and write before school came. You know, it's like, really, children couldn't teach themselves. Nobody taught them to read and write. They just were so dumb and uneducated and, and like that's not true. People, some of the greatest people in our culture never went to school. Our founding fathers didn't go to school. Many of them didn't go to school.
- [40:33]
Alex Clark
That's true.
- [40:34]
Star
So it's like, why all of a sudden do we think school is necessary? Because culturally it's just been brainwashed and there's an agenda.
- [40:43]
Alex Clark
I freaking love this so much.
- [40:44]
Emily Rose
I get so fired up.
- [40:45]
Alex Clark
I, I love this subject. It's so, it's. Everything that I love is raising countercultural kids. And that is exactly what is happening in a Waldorf education. Now here's a question. Does Waldorf have certain beliefs or rules about food served during your Classes we do.
- [41:04]
Star
We try to keep things very natural, very healthy. We try to be aware of.
- [41:09]
Emily Rose
And then we also make it known to our families that if they have food preferences or allergies, they can bring their own snacks and. And stuff for their children to have.
- [41:18]
Star
But when I was in Waldorf school, one of the things in early childhood is that you do cook and bake yourself in classes. So we would bake bread, we would make porridge, we would do these things, and we would eat our own snack porridge. Yeah. And like little wooden bowls. I love that we try to do that in our class. Like when we moved indoors, we do baking once a month or twice a month, where the children bake something and they eat it. I don't know what the way of thinking is with food, though.
- [41:47]
Alex Clark
For Waldorf School, you also mix in the Charlotte Mason method. What does a Charlotte Mason education include and how does it complement Waldorf?
- [41:57]
Emily Rose
Our Charlotte Mason classes, they really focus on. They have a lot of literature, so she has poetry. They're reading, novels they're looking at. Every month it's a different artist that they look at. And then the kids just love that.
- [42:13]
Alex Clark
Like this month is Monet.
- [42:15]
Star
Yes, yes, yes, for sure.
- [42:17]
Emily Rose
And then. And then on top of that, they also focus on a composer, and we have a record player, and she'll put on the music and she'll have the kids close their eyes and just absorb the beautiful sounds that they're hearing. And they have tea time.
- [42:31]
Alex Clark
I was in seventh grade with Coldplay. A rush of blood to the head.
- [42:34]
Emily Rose
Nice. Yes.
- [42:35]
Alex Clark
I would lay on the floor and close my eyes and absorb the music. And I thought. Thought I was super deep and super cool. Listening to the scientists.
- [42:40]
Emily Rose
Yes, exactly. Yes, you were, for sure. And then they have tea time, so they try different varieties of tea, and they have little sandwiches and cookies.
- [42:51]
Star
And this is a cute thing. Like, they read the lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe a few months ago in one of the classes. So for tea time that week, they ate Turkish delights, which is such a part of the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
- [43:01]
Emily Rose
It was really fun to watch the kids try it. Some of them were like this. Why was Edmund so happy about this?
- [43:07]
Star
Yeah, why does he want to eat all these?
- [43:09]
Emily Rose
Why do you want these so bad?
- [43:11]
Alex Clark
Just you guys describing this. I mean, I'm picking up on some similarities. I can understand, like, some overlap here. So why do these fit so perfectly together? And then what would be something that you would do in Charlotte Mason that you wouldn't do in Waldorf? Which is why going to the different classes are beneficial.
- [43:27]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [43:28]
Star
So they are very different. The similarities, in my opinion, of Charlotte Mason and Walsh. So Charlotte Mason, her philosophy was that children are born persons, which is very similar to Rudolf Steiner, who says children are whole children. It's a whole child approach and a born person's approach. Charlotte Mason believes that children, you want to bring out who they are already inside. As soon as they're born, they are who they are. And Rudolf Steiner has the same philosophy. Now, a lot of people don't connect those dots. A lot of people go like, well, they're so different. Because they are. They're very different. Charlotte Mason is physical literature that you're reading, whereas Waldorf is like storytelling and play acting and art and, you know, things like that. Charlotte Mason is like learning from the greats. You want to, you know, Monet and Bach and all these amazing artists. That's who they're learning from. So there's this feast of knowledge when it comes to Charlotte Mason. But the similarities, in my opinion, in the approach is that neither of them are forcing anything on anybody. Charlotte Mason's approach is to go, here's literature, here's knowledge, here's a composer. But they're not going. Now, what was the symbolism in that book? Let me answer it correctly. On the test. What happened during this time? It's just an immersive experience for a child to. To pick up what they're ready to.
- [44:43]
Alex Clark
And you're saying, when you say immersive, am I correct in this, that when you talk about a Charlotte Mason method being immersive in literature, it's like taking a story. Let's just say if you're reading Ping the Duck, then you're doing lessons then on. On, like, Chinese history, you're using to then get into other subjects.
- [45:00]
Emily Rose
And also they're about, like, having, like, almost like a buffet of, like, literature for the child to look at themselves. And then you take direction from the child and what they're interested in. So you may offer books about ducks and Chinese literature, but then also have over here, like, some dragons or, like, different things, and you just kind of.
- [45:24]
Star
Have that they're being immersed in that.
- [45:25]
Emily Rose
They'Re being immersed in it. And then you go off of their direction of where they. They're telling you they're, like, interested in.
- [45:31]
Alex Clark
And so I'm assuming, because we're talking about how there's no pressure in Waldorf school to read by a certain age, the kids that are then also doing your Charlotte Mason classes, those are the Ones who are expressing a desire to obviously read and stuff. Right.
- [45:42]
Star
Some of them don't know how to read.
- [45:44]
Alex Clark
Oh, okay. Okay. So it's just a style of teaching.
- [45:46]
Star
That they do in the classes because the parents attend with the children. They read one book a month, and the teacher reads two chapters in class.
- [45:55]
Emily Rose
Class.
- [45:55]
Star
And then they read two chapters at home, either with themselves or their parents. Read aloud to them.
- [46:00]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [46:01]
Star
At home. So you can go to Charlotte Mason, even if you don't know how to read yet.
- [46:05]
Alex Clark
I love it so much.
- [46:06]
Emily Rose
I just want to be. I want to be a student.
- [46:08]
Star
All the moms, when we describe the Charlotte Mason classes and the things, or even the tea time, they're always like, can we do a mom's class?
- [46:16]
Emily Rose
Like, can we do some mom class?
- [46:17]
Star
And I'm like, I keep meaning to do it. We just haven't done it yet.
- [46:20]
Alex Clark
But you should do one a month. One day a month or evening or something. The moms get together and they do a fun activity or something.
- [46:26]
Star
They do a craft. We read a book. We do something cute or a little book. Poetry. Yeah.
- [46:31]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Tell me about some of the activities or events that you did in the last month.
- [46:35]
Emily Rose
So last month we had our Michaelmas festival, and that is about St. Michael. St. Michael, yes. In his bravery and being able to. To defend his self against a dragon. Against a dragon.
- [46:52]
Star
Lots of symbolism.
- [46:53]
Emily Rose
Yes. So we had that. So all the children. Children came for our festival for that. And we had crafts and activities. They got to make their own little shields and their little masks. And then the teachers wore dragon masks, and there were geodes in front of them, and the kids had to try to sneak up and grab their geode. And so they. They had so much fun with that. And then our classes, they. We had dragons, and we did apples, and. Yeah. So we just had a really fun time. We baked cookies. Yeah. So we have a different theme every week.
- [47:28]
Alex Clark
How important is imaginative play in Waldorf education?
- [47:32]
Star
The most important thing.
- [47:34]
Alex Clark
The most important, I would say using.
- [47:36]
Star
Your imagination and being able to have that kind of thinking and creativity is the most important thing. And if you look at our culture today, the people that are really successful have the head, hands, and heart. They're able to. They're very creative. Right. Entrepreneurs are able to think and feel very creatively. They have problems they want to solve. They have a big heart for the world. They have very critical thinking and problem solving skills, and they actually know how to do it with their hands. They can actually create something that is worthwhile. So children that Don't I believe. Learn with their head, heart, and hands. They just have one style. Oh, I learned what year the Revolutionary War was. Like, what's that gonna do for you?
- [48:20]
Alex Clark
So if you're eavesdropping on children playing at the Acorn School.
- [48:24]
Emily Rose
Oh, this is my favorite. This is my favorite part. And I tell her all the time. It just makes me giggle because I'm standing off to the side and I'm looking out at all the kids. Free playing. Okay. We have a pot of children over here basically reenacting Acorn School, and they're teaching and doing their thing. And then we have another pod over here where they're butterflies going through the garden, but there's a dragon that's chasing them. And then the dragon tries to go over to the Acorn School, and they're just all intermingling, and it's so sweet and so cute.
- [48:56]
Star
Yeah.
- [48:56]
Emily Rose
So they just. A ton of things going on.
- [48:59]
Star
And I see it with my kids when they get home, they continue to reenact the things that the children were playing during class that day. It's amazing. I was actually thinking about our culture today because Waldorf is very anti. Like television and.
- [49:16]
Alex Clark
Oh, really?
- [49:17]
Star
Yes.
- [49:18]
Alex Clark
Tell me about this.
- [49:19]
Star
So I believe. And there's a lot to it, and like I said, I'm not a professional, but I believe it has a lot to do with. You don't have to use your imagination. You're a passive user when you're using. Watching television.
- [49:31]
Alex Clark
So do you own a tv?
- [49:32]
Star
I do. Oh, I do. I'm not. I'm not a strict person with that when it comes to me, with our culture today, because I'm more of an unschooler. Personally, I would say that they do want some exposure to the lifestyle and the culture that we have today. But I am very aware of what they watch and what they're interacting with. But they don't sit all day on a screen watching tv.
- [49:54]
Alex Clark
Are there any parents in your. In your school now that don't own a television?
- [50:00]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [50:00]
Alex Clark
Oh, really?
- [50:01]
Star
One of our closest friends, they used to actually have one, but her child really struggled with it with all the sensory issues, and so they just. It broke. It broke and they don't have it anymore. And they're doing great. They do a lot of, like, if she needs to get work done or something. Yodo player and things like that.
- [50:21]
Alex Clark
Why do you always see things like colorful scarves and dolls without faces in a Waldorf classroom?
- [50:27]
Star
It's imagination.
- [50:28]
Emily Rose
Yeah.
- [50:29]
Star
So Rudolf Steiner believed that you shouldn't have a full face on a doll or a really realistic doll because he believed that it dampered the child's ability to imagine. And is this child, is the baby sad? Is it happy? What is it hungry? Whatever it might be, if it has a face and it's going, then that's what a baby is. And it's harder to make up your own imagination. As far as the silks, they're so beautiful and they're so.
- [50:53]
Emily Rose
And it's not just a silk. I mean, our silks have been turned into capes.
- [50:57]
Star
That's what I was gonna say.
- [50:58]
Emily Rose
Crowns, bonnets, wings.
- [51:00]
Star
They're open ended. So opened toys are really important, natural open ended toys where this could be a cape, it could be a dress, it could be, you know, a lasso, a baby swaddle. A baby swaddle. It could be anything. And giving children those kinds of toys rather than a bright robot that makes one noise over and over again. There's no imagination to that. But if you have a silk, there's a million things you can do with it. And some parents will say, well, my kids won't play with that. And it's like, well, have they been exposed to the constant feedback of whether it's television and these toys and they don't have that silk because when they're.
- [51:36]
Emily Rose
Surrounded with things that are just what they are, like they're just. That thing is a thing, then it makes it really hard for you to understand that this silk could be more than just a silk.
- [51:46]
Star
Yeah, their imaginations aren't in practice. I think you have to practice to have a imagination.
- [51:51]
Alex Clark
Have you guys routinely get kids who are coming from more traditional form of education that are then going into Waldorf, that are not used to open ended toys, that at first they're like, I don't know what to do with this. I don't know how to play like this. And then they learn as they go.
- [52:07]
Emily Rose
Yes, I think we do.
- [52:08]
Star
I think we had more of that in the beginning. I do think that most people that come to us are aware, at least on some level about what Waldorf is or they're very holistically minded people already. But I would say we have some more traditional people. And the mom. I notice it with the moms more than I notice it with the children. The children love it. The children show up and they play like there's been no child child that has come to Acorn School that hasn't just gone into the flow, but the parents are like, what do I do? And they don't know what the children, they're like, what are they doing?
- [52:38]
Alex Clark
Yeah, yeah.
- [52:38]
Star
Are they learning watercolor painting? You know, like doing wet on wet watercolor, where it's where you're supposed to experience the color.
- [52:44]
Emily Rose
And I've even had some parents be like, well, what are they supposed to be painting? And I'm like, oh, whatever. Their imagination takes them. But, like, what are they supposed to be painting? And I'm like, no, like, they can choose what they want to paint. Like, sometimes we'll give them, like, oh, like, you know, we are doing bats. So if you want to learn how to paint a bat, I can show you. But if you don't want to, to each your own. What does that mean?
- [53:03]
Alex Clark
Experience the color.
- [53:05]
Star
Experience yellow. What does yellow do? What does it look like? What does it feel like? You know, wet on wet. Watercolor is interesting because you just get the paper completely wet, and then you give them watercolor. And if you know what watercolor does, it moves, and it does different things. It's not just like a very obvious line that you.
- [53:23]
Emily Rose
When, like, the. The wet on wet, it creates something different every time. Like, even though you're doing a specific stroke, the water that's already there will take it in somewhere else.
- [53:34]
Star
So you're experiencing that color rather than having a. I'm supposed to paint a sun.
- [53:39]
Alex Clark
Why is beeswax so important to Waldorf education?
- [53:42]
Emily Rose
I love beeswax.
- [53:43]
Star
You want to take that one? Yes.
- [53:44]
Emily Rose
Okay. So beeswax is very interesting. It comes in usually like, a square, and it's probably strange that I'm starting off this way, but it's a little tough. Okay. So they need to take that square and start working it into their hands. It's a process. They're warming it up. It takes a little bit of time and patience, and it starts to get them into the flow of what they're doing. And then they take it. Once they've been able to manipulate it and get it into a shape, they start working it into a form that they want to do. So it's the whole process from start to finish with beeswax is just really cool, especially with children, because they have to sit there and their mind is focused, their heart is activated because they want to create something, and then their hands are also busy as well. And that's beautiful. So it kind of pulls it all.
- [54:38]
Alex Clark
In, and none of those nasty chemicals that you're getting in play. D'oh. Know that stuff is filled with crap. After learning everything I've learned, my kids would not be allowed to play with play. D'oh.
- [54:48]
Star
There's so much like that. And that's the other thing that's lovely about Waldorf is everything is natural.
- [54:53]
Alex Clark
As a former public school teacher, what grade would you give the current public education system when it comes to educating our children?
- [55:01]
Emily Rose
Oh, a grade. I get to grade them. Is there something lower than an F? I mean, it's just, just. It's so unfortunate. I mean, it. I.
- [55:13]
Star
It's not the teacher's fault.
- [55:15]
Emily Rose
No. And I want to make that very clear. There's no reality where a teacher who's going to go to college to become an educator where they. I can pretty much all across the board. They love kids. They want to educate them, they want to be around them, they want to make little learners. Like that will be every teacher. They'll tell you that's why they got into teaching. And you know, college doesn't prepare you for teaching in the school system. I felt like being thrown to the wolves. Yeah. The system is just does not have the children or the teachers best interests at heart. So I would rate them an F lower because I just wasn't. I wasn't taken care of as a person in the system. And then it made it really difficult for me to take care of the. The kids that I had in front of me as well.
- [56:08]
Alex Clark
Who is actually faring better academically in this country today? Is it public school kids or homeschool kids?
- [56:14]
Emily Rose
I would have to say homeschool kids on so many fronts.
- [56:17]
Star
I mean, there's going to be the children that do well in public school.
- [56:20]
Emily Rose
Right.
- [56:20]
Star
There's going to be the personalities that thrive in that situation. Those kids probably test really well and they probably do really well. But the majority of children, I would say, do not thrive in that situation. And if they're able to get a learning style that works for them, them, I'm sure they are testing way higher and doing things way better. Not that I even believe that that is the way we should measure.
- [56:43]
Emily Rose
Sad. And so deeply broken. I feel like in our country is because, you know, there are families that they need to send their children to school because they need to work and the school system is just failing their children. Like, you know, like, I just wish that the system could repair itself a little quicker or like be a little better because it could be great.
- [57:08]
Star
But it's just have something in Arizona that actually does help that we have the ESA program.
- [57:15]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [57:15]
Star
So we do have the universal ESA. So parents in Arizona can get 90% of their state tax dollars back and they can use that towards any school that they want to send their kids to. So they can send their kids to private school, they can send their kids to a charter school? No, there is a lot.
- [57:34]
Alex Clark
Does it work for your school?
- [57:35]
Star
Yes, you can use it for our school. So we actually have access to low income families to attend our classes because they don't have to pay for it. They can use their ESA accounts to pay for ACORN school and you can.
- [57:47]
Emily Rose
Use it for curriculum, you can use it for extracurricular activities. Do other states have really cool.
- [57:51]
Star
Only a few.
- [57:52]
Emily Rose
That's what I was saying.
- [57:54]
Star
Coming up on this election, our current governor is not in favor of esa. She would like to cancel esa. So it's actually kind of scary right now because it has opened up so much for children in our state to be able to choose what school that they go to and for parents to be able to choose what would they be exposed to?
- [58:15]
Alex Clark
A different ideology that the state doesn't approve.
- [58:17]
Emily Rose
Exactly. There were more states that were originally doing it, but they've all slowly started.
- [58:22]
Star
To get rid of arguments. Some people say well you're taking the money away from the public schools and, and if it's somebody like me, my money would not be going to you anyways.
- [58:30]
Emily Rose
I would. Where is the money?
- [58:32]
Star
Be sending my child to your school. And you only get the money if I send my kid to your school. So you wouldn't be getting my money no matter what because I'm not sending my child there.
- [58:42]
Alex Clark
What would you say to somebody who says sorry but playing with scarves, climbing trees. That doesn't mean that those kids are learning anything.
- [58:49]
Star
I would say they have zero idea of what actual learning is. Is because I think people are so invested in being able to measure learning and everybody is, am I ahead? Am I behind? Is the child ahead or behind? This is a manufactured ideology that isn't even a correct assessment of human beings. What grade level you are is the assessment of who you are as a person. I think children should be addressed as their whole selves and what they're getting from climbing a tree and playing with scarves could be something much deeper than if they understand whatever it is they're trying to teach them in the system.
- [59:30]
Alex Clark
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- [62:33]
Star
Off.
- [62:37]
Alex Clark
Are there little special characters that like every Waldorf school is at some point going to teach your kid about about this character?
- [62:46]
Star
There's the festivals usually go by saints, so like I said, we did Michaelmas. There's like St. Nicholas or different things like that. A lot of them use gnomes, but they're not like a specific gnome. It's just like in general, gnomes, fairies.
- [63:04]
Alex Clark
Why gnomes and fairies?
- [63:05]
Star
I think it's just magical. I think it's just appeasing to things that aren't just in reality. Versus Montessori, where they're very strict and everything has to be focused in reality. Waldorf. They don't do the imagination, they don't do all the storytelling. They, they don't encourage that kind of learning. They're very strict on this is what a dinosaur looks like. This is the shape of a dinosaur. This is the exact way that they act versus in Waldorf. They're like a dragon flies through the air. They're very much more focused on that imagination imaginative side.
- [63:41]
Alex Clark
Why are birthdays so important?
- [63:42]
Star
In Waldorf we do a special birthday celebration each month for the children. But normally in a Waldorf school you would do it on your actual birthday. You would get to be celebrated. And I think it just is another testament to this is a whole person. You are important. Who you are is worth celebrating, is worth knowing what are the things that.
- [64:00]
Alex Clark
You do for the birthday kid?
- [64:02]
Emily Rose
Oh, this is so fun.
- [64:03]
Star
At Acorn School.
- [64:03]
Emily Rose
At Acorn School, yeah. We have a celebration every month, so it's. If any of our.
- [64:09]
Star
Because we don't every day of the week. Yeah, People only come once a week, so we have to kind of put everything.
- [64:13]
Emily Rose
If your birthday's in September, we'll celebrate you at the end of the month. And what we do is we set up a birthday table, and there is a beeswax candle, and we have a cape and a crown. And then we get all the other children into, like, a tunnel, and the birthday kid will walk down the tunnel with all their friends. We have, like, silks and little, like, bells. They walk all the way down. We say a birthday verse, they blow out their candle, and it's really fun.
- [64:44]
Alex Clark
What's the birthday verse?
- [64:46]
Star
It's from heaven high unto the earth. Today we celebrate Charlie's birth. When he came down six years ago, his angels knew right where to go. Mother and father so happy and proud. Something. They celebrate their child out loud.
- [65:02]
Alex Clark
Cute.
- [65:03]
Emily Rose
It's really fun. So the. The teacher will be saying that as the child is walking down the. The. The. All of their friends, and they're wearing their cape and their cape, and their.
- [65:11]
Star
They feel so special. And then we do it at the beginning of class so they can wear their cape and crown all day. And they get to be the special children that day.
- [65:18]
Emily Rose
Yes. And then at the end of class, when we're doing watercoloring or beeswax crayons, we create birthday books for the children so all their friends make them a special page, and we bind it and they get to take it home.
- [65:29]
Star
That is actually one of the most special things for every year.
- [65:32]
Emily Rose
Every. Everybody looks forward to their birthday kids.
- [65:35]
Star
We have. Charlie has two because he was in two classes. Scarlet has one. They're out in our house every day almost. They bring their birthday book out. They look at the pictures. They say, nico drew this for me. And, you know, they feel so special and cared about by their peers because of that.
- [65:49]
Alex Clark
What are in breath and out breath activities?
- [65:53]
Star
That's a great question.
- [65:54]
Emily Rose
Yes. We have many of those in our classes. So an in breath would be when we're doing, like, story time and that type of thing. And then the out breath would be when they go to free play and then in. In breath again. So it's kind of like a. It's a rhythm. That's why in Waldorf, they. They specifically use the word rhythm when they're talking about their schedule. Because it's very rhythmic. It's not, like, rigid.
- [66:21]
Star
It's not a 8:05. You have to go, you have to.
- [66:23]
Emily Rose
Be going outside and you only have 10 minutes.
- [66:25]
Alex Clark
That's my question is if you're seeing these kids, they are really, really involved in immersive, imaginative play. Like they're having so much fun. Like this is like the best day ever. But you know that you have a beeswax craft that you were supposed to do. Do you just let them do that all day and you just change the plans or, or do you move them out of that activity to something else?
- [66:45]
Star
Maybe at the end of the day, the very last watercolor session sometimes doesn't happen. But usually we still do everything. But it's a, it's a flow. So if we see that they're in a flow state and they are playing, we will give them some time and we'll check back in in five, five minutes, you know, and then maybe in five minutes and 10 minutes, maybe it starts to get a little less, you know, magical. They're not as engaged and it's like, oh, maybe some are getting distracted, some are trickling in. Then we'll go, oh, now it's time for our craft.
- [67:14]
Emily Rose
So it's way more like child led.
- [67:16]
Star
It's with a rhythm. And our teacher, the kids know the rhythm too. So like they are expecting to go into craft.
- [67:22]
Emily Rose
Like they'll be playing really hard and then they'll see that the teacher hasn't called them over. Did you craft? And they'll come over and they'll be like, oh, what are we doing for our craft? Like they'll become interested in it because they know the rhythm.
- [67:32]
Alex Clark
And I know Arizona, we have the unique, you know, hotter than hell summers. So that's what we deal with. But as far as you guys know, other Waldorf schools in nature based Waldorf schools across the country, are they basically playing outside in all weather at least a little bit or how does it work?
- [67:49]
Star
I would say all safe weather. Yes, you would play outside. The problem with Arizona is it's not safe to play outside in 115 degree weather unless you're swimming. Right. So I would say, yes, we do. When we are in our nature side, it is rain or shine. So even if it's raining, if it's cold, bundle up, bring your rain boots. We're still going to do things outside.
- [68:10]
Alex Clark
What advice do you have for the parent who is torn between Waldorf and Charlotte Mason? I don't know. I love things from both. What do I do? I don't know what to pick.
- [68:17]
Star
You can do both. Yeah. I say you can do whatever you want. You're a homeschool mom. That is why you homeschooled. You can follow. Waldorf says the child is the curriculum. It's not based on a certain curriculum. You look at your child, they are the curriculum. What do they need? What do what lights them up? If a. If a Charlotte Mason story lights up your child, but it's not Waldorf enough. Why. Why wouldn't you do that? What brings joy to you and your family?
- [68:43]
Emily Rose
And that's why we love that Acorn School. One of our favorite word is inspired, because that's truly what we are. We were just inspired by the Waldorf philosophy, but we still make it like our own. And then we were inspired by the Charlotte Mason, but we've still made it like our own. And anybody has the power to be able to do that.
- [69:01]
Star
Yeah, we're not dogmatic about any of it. And some people are. And I just think that that's a shame sometimes, because when you get too caught up in the rules of something, you miss out on the beauty of other things.
- [69:14]
Alex Clark
Do you consider Waldorf to be New Agey and all?
- [69:17]
Star
I think it depends on who you would ask there. Rudolph Steiner created what he would call the science of spirituality, and that was called anthroposophy. And so some people might be turned off on that based on maybe their religious views. As far as Acorn School goes, we do not operate from anthroposophy. But what's interesting about it is it's really, if you do the research, there might be stuff at, as a religious person that you might not like, but there's a lot of interesting stuff about it. I would say the root of his teachings were that children needed to. Or people. You wanted to become a free person. Freedom as a person, as a human being was at the root of that. And so I think that's really interesting, even when you talk about education and whole children, is that that's what I want for my children. I want them to be free. I don't want them to be tied to any kind of. Of fear or label or, you know, this is who I have to be or this is what I have to do when I grow up. I want my kid to become my kid. And. And what lights him up and makes him, you know, happy is the goal. And so I want him to be a free person.
- [70:24]
Alex Clark
Okay, so you saying that is interesting to me because when I have looked up other Waldorf schools in America, I mean, you check their, you know, our beliefs and things like that on their website. Some of them do say things like, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion is important. We do critical race theory, social justice issues. Is that something that you guys are getting into in your curriculum at the ACORN school?
- [70:45]
Star
No, because we are homeschool enrichment. The beauty of it is that each family can teach their children based on their own belief systems and they come to us for enrichment in art, language, music, you know, word. Not addressing those personal beliefs and issues.
- [71:05]
Alex Clark
I like that. I think, I think that that is a great strategy for every school. I think that's what it should be in public school. I think exactly what you're saying we're doing the learning, the, the, you know, actually getting to be a kid, all that kind of stuff, those types of deep issues, belief systems, leave that to the parents to do.
- [71:24]
Star
And it shouldn't happen till after the 14 according, according to Waldorf, because your conceptual ability to understand concepts doesn't happen until you're older. Oh, so they shouldn't be teaching 5 year olds deep concepts anyways because they're not capable of grasping something on that level. Especially interesting if they haven't had their heart and their hands and their ability to grow properly, you know, and then you're trying to teach them these very, very critical thinking concepts. That's just too much for a kid.
- [71:56]
Alex Clark
Why is boredom important in childhood?
- [71:58]
Emily Rose
So boredom is important in a childhood because that is the birthplace of imagination. I mean, you can think to yourself as just a person, even as an adult, when you're sitting there and you're like, I'm bored. Like you can then take the steps to then be on board. So, but you wouldn't be able to know how to take those steps steps if you weren't ever bored and able to figure out how to pull yourself out of boredom and so become creative. Like, if I'm sitting here and I'm feeling like I should be doing something or I want to be doing something, then I can take those steps to do that. But if you don't let children be bored, then they will be incapable of pulling themselves out of it or being able to be creative to fill that boy boredom with.
- [72:47]
Star
And you become a passive person in society. In my opinion, if you're never bored, you're just always being stimulated and entertained by an outside source, then you're just much more likely to go with the flow as an adult too and just, and just believe whatever is told to you. Just be a passive member of society to never make a change or a difference. But if you're A bored kid and you have to actually learn how to create and how to learn and how to observe deserve, then you're much more likely to be not passive and be an active member of your community in society.
- [73:18]
Emily Rose
I think, and I feel like, you know, as a child, where if you are needing to deal with your boredom yourself, you become reliant on yourself. Where if somebody's constantly providing you with stimulus and they are giving you that support for your boredom, you will always be looking for that outside of yourself, myself and then other people.
- [73:39]
Alex Clark
What is a spirit nurturing education?
- [73:42]
Star
I think my children are way more than just a scientific shell to be inputted information and, you know, become a doctor one day. I think that they are their own spirit, their own soul that came here to do what they're supposed to do. And I would say a spirit led education is to really know your child, to really watch them, to really see their strengths, see their weaknesses, see what lights them up, and really focus their education to be tailored around them and their spirit and not breaking their spirit and not breaking who they are by, you know, oh, you got it. You were bad at that. You got an F on that test. That breaks a child's spirit, in my opinion, because they're like, well, I'm not good enough. I didn't, I, I'm not like the other kids. The, it creates lower self esteem. Everything in our culture, I think within the education system, unless you're good at it, creates everybody else to feel less than and to feel lower than. And I think that hurts your spirit. I think your spirit gets dampened and you look for things outside of you then to make you feel better, your mental health is affected when you feel bad about yourself. So I think a spirit led education is to truly nurture your child in, in, in all of things.
- [74:59]
Alex Clark
For people who don't live in Arizona and they're bummed out because they are like, oh my gosh, hearing everything about the ACORN school, that would be my dream school. Are there any other Waldorf schools or enrichment programs across the country that you guys would like to shout out? Like, hey, if you live in this state, like this is one that I know of that I really like.
- [75:17]
Star
Personally, I don't know what any of their ideologies might be. Okay, so no, I, I, I think that's what's unique about ACORN school is that I think a lot of Waldorf schools are affected by the public school system. I think they've been affected by standard education. I think some of them probably have stayed True to what you know, those fundamental beliefs are.
- [75:39]
Alex Clark
But are you saying a lot of them are incorporating social justice type of lessons?
- [75:44]
Star
I'm sure. I'm sure there's that going on. I think they're also incorporating standardized testing. I think they're incorporating. They're taking the music, they're taking the language arts out, you know, or the Spanish.
- [75:56]
Alex Clark
You got to ask questions. You got to ask about the need.
- [75:58]
Star
To know what their beliefs are. You need to know what their education are they really rooted in Waldorf. Are they taking the art out of the classes? Are they. Because there, there are Waldorf schools that have meshed with public schools and the goal. I understand the goal because the goal is to reach. Because normally Waldorf schools are private, right? Where then you have to pay money and they're not as accessible to all children. And so the goal with a public Waldorf school school would be to be accessible to all children. But then what happens is you're infiltrated by the public school system and you no longer can do true Waldorf. You can't there the budgets. I mean, Waldorf isn't cheap. The materials are expensive. They're high quality. That was a question I thought was funny that Katie asked us when your booker asked us when we were doing this. She was like, well, do the parents donate materials or who buys your materials? And I thought, oh, we buy our materials. And I thought, oh, people. Public schools get materials donated to them.
- [76:53]
Alex Clark
The parents into your.
- [76:56]
Star
Your fee it is. We provide everything ourselves. We, you know, the parents pay to come to Acorn School and we provide everything. But I just thought it was interesting because even in public school education, even though they have a budget, you were telling me this, you were like, if. If just the government's funding for the.
- [77:12]
Emily Rose
Supplies were in the street ugly the classroom be. There would be no decorations. Like when you walk into a teacher's classroom, if it looks fun and inviting, it was pretty much created and purchased by the teacher because, I mean, they, they don't hardly. They provide like the bare minimum. Like, we got a supply. But the, the qualities were really kind of icky. So that's why teachers have to ask for supply lists because we would not make it through the year if we didn't have those donations.
- [77:44]
Star
So it's interesting. Like, even in public schools, they, even though they have all this public funding, the materials are really low quality. And so if you're merging Waldorf with public schools, you're going to. The materials are going to get lower quality. You know, the teachers aren't going to be able to do. That's the other big thing about Waldorf that's really amazing is that teachers are given autonomy to teach in a way that lights up the teaching teacher. So imagine a teacher that is told, this is exactly how you have to teach and this is exactly the curriculum you have to follow and you have to do it in this way.
- [78:16]
Alex Clark
Right?
- [78:17]
Star
And maybe that teacher doesn't like that. Well, they have to do it. Whereas a Waldorf teacher has way more autonomy. If you love music, sing songs all day to your kids. If you love art, do it this way. If you, you know, you want to study Native Americans. Well, when I was in Waldorf school, we literally went outside and built a wigwam on the property because that's what my teacher was interested in in was like helping us, you know, learn about Native Americans through hands on building a wigwam. So, you know, I think that's the difference in public school too is like once you start merging them, then the teachers don't have autonomy anymore. So it's really a unique thing, I think, that Acorn School is doing because we are private, but we have Arizona esa, where, you know, we're accessible to anybody, that we can stick to our ideologies and our values without being compromised by the public school system.
- [79:08]
Alex Clark
So does your school year start in September?
- [79:11]
Star
We just go all year round.
- [79:13]
Alex Clark
So you go all year. So, so people can just join whenever?
- [79:17]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [79:18]
Alex Clark
And are you guys currently accepting new students at the Acorn School?
- [79:22]
Star
We are full right now. We have six classes and a dance class and they're all completely full. But it's good for you. Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, it's going really well. But there are wait lists and people like come and go because. Because it's a. You can either do monthly or you can do quarterly. So some people are like, this wasn't for me. And they stop after a month. Or they have a family vacation coming up and they wanna pause for a month. Things like that happen. So if you wanna join Acorn School, I would get on the wait list and it just goes in chronological order. So whenever a spot opens up, you can join.
- [79:55]
Alex Clark
How much does it cost for a child under seven to attend?
- [79:58]
Star
It's 275amonth. And that includes four three hour classes. A monthly festival. Festival. A monthly outing. You get an unlimited rock climbing membership. You get access to our private community. We just designed and starting in October, a take home supplemental curriculum. So for example, this week we did bats in class and now we have A curriculum that you can you get in your membership. You can digitally download it and print it at home. And it gives you information about bats. It gives you our story we told in class class about bats. It gives you our song we did about bats. A craft that's different than the in class craft to do with bats. So you can take your ACORN School experience home with you and it can enrich your homeschool life as well.
- [80:43]
Alex Clark
Cute.
- [80:44]
Star
So, so who's.
- [80:45]
Alex Clark
Is there like some kind of like Waldorf database where it's like any animal hears a song or something or are you guys coming up with a bat song?
- [80:53]
Emily Rose
We're so beyond blast. So one of our teachers, Olivia Via, she is very talented. She writes all of our stories and all of our monthly songs and she's extremely talented.
- [81:07]
Star
Weekly curriculum song.
- [81:09]
Emily Rose
Yeah, yeah.
- [81:10]
Star
So this is very gifted. We're not ACORN School content.
- [81:13]
Alex Clark
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture and that could be physically, mentally, or spiritually, what would that be for you?
- [81:20]
Emily Rose
Family focused. I feel like the more that you are focused, focused on your family and like your children and your partner and just together creating a tight family, I think that can only help generations be better.
- [81:40]
Alex Clark
And what about you, Star?
- [81:41]
Star
I love that answer. And just to tag on to her answer, that's one thing we didn't mention about ACORN School is that we are a family centered program. It's a family centered approach. So, so instead of a child centered approach, which most of the things in society are, you go to a bounce house like or bouncy place that's for kids. The parents hate it, it's overstimulating, it's miserable. You're not there for yourself. Whereas you come to ACORN School. Yes, the child is getting this beautiful enrichment, but the mothers have created these lasting, intimate relationships with each other. There's so much in common that the families have. The toddlers play together and the grandmothers come. It's really a family centered approach where everybody enjoys coming to ACORN School. I have the moms, like, we're going to dinner on Friday night all together. They text me all the time. We have such a rich community within the mothers and they found like real lifelong friendships. So the family centered education, I think is like a part of the revolution as well, is it's not just about the kid, it's about the whole family. Which homeschooling also incorporates, I would say two things. I mean, they're obscure, but I would say, say personal responsibility and a relationship with a higher power. I do think that those two things, being able to look within yourself when you have a problem in life and not just point to the outside world and it's somebody else that caused that problem, even if somebody did something to you, the way it affects you is your problem. And I would say having that personal responsibility and then having a relationship with a God as you understand it, to use to help you through life, life is the most important thing you could have.
- [83:11]
Alex Clark
Where can people find your school? On Instagram. And what's your website on Instagram?
- [83:16]
Star
We are at Acorn Underscore School and Our website is www.acorn schoolenrichment.com.
- [83:26]
Alex Clark
And what is the name of your podcast? Tell us about the podcast.
- [83:29]
Emily Rose
Our podcast is called under the Oak. Just to kind of keep with the the theme. Yeah, you can see. And we've done a few so far. We've interviewed, viewed a few of our teachers because they're very interesting. And then we've done a podcast on Flow State. And then also just an introductory to what Acorn School is.
- [83:47]
Alex Clark
Is it for anybody or is it kind of for other Waldorf educators to get ideas?
- [83:52]
Star
So the goal long term is that it's going to be just a very holistic minded podcast that will go for anybody. Right now it's very Acorn School focused because I think it helps the parents that are interested in coming to Acorn School School hear what we're doing and why we're doing it. There's so much you can say about it that you can't understand in just a website. So we're doing the podcast right now very focused on Acorn School, but it will branch out to be under the Oak and not just about Acorn School.
- [84:18]
Alex Clark
We're doing something really fun, which I just. If you can't tell Nerd out on this subject, I don't. It's like so strange because I don't have kids and I. I am so obsessed with like learning education styles and everything. And so you guys were so kind to invite me to attend a class like A Day in the Life of Waldorf School with all these little kids. I hope that they like me.
- [84:41]
Emily Rose
They're probably gonna love it.
- [84:43]
Alex Clark
Why is this old lady sitting next to me? So what can people expect? We're gonna vlog the entire day. I'm going to show everything that we do in the Day in the Life at the Acorn School. Interview some of the other moms, the other parents that are there. And what are people gonna see on this vlog on the real elks Clark YouTube.
- [85:03]
Emily Rose
I love our classes. I'm really excited to share them with you and. And just to have you understand. The children will tell you what to do and how they feel. So they'll be very helpful with making sure you're doing the things do that.
- [85:17]
Star
You're supposed to do this, but they're.
- [85:19]
Emily Rose
Super cute about it. So we usually start with our community like morning circle, and there's singing songs, our monthly songs, storytelling, and just kind of being together together. And the kids can, like, talk and it's very sweet. And then we'll do our nature walk. We'll be at a farm, so that'll be very cool. Lots of animals and just being able to kind of hang out with all the. The farm creatures. And then we'll do our craft and we'll have snack. There'll be like free play and then we'll do our watercolor lessons. So I hope you're gonna have a.
- [85:51]
Alex Clark
Great time within three hours.
- [85:53]
Emily Rose
Yes.
- [85:54]
Alex Clark
That is a lot of. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited. It thank you guys so much for the opportunity to do that. So be subscribed to Real Alex Clark on YouTube. We're going to release that this same week as the podcast so you can watch. And just thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.
- [86:08]
Star
Thank you so much for having us.
- [86:10]
Emily Rose
So fun.
- [86:10]
Star
This was such a blessing. We appreciate it.
- [86:16]
Alex Clark
I don't know what it is about the homeschool episodes, the education episodes. Truly some of my most favorite interviews to do are on this subject. Like, I just geek out over this. I could have talked to them for so much longer. I would love to hear from any of you who actually have kids who do any type of Waldorf or Charlotte Mason education. Like, send some pictures in the Cute Servitors Facebook group. Tell us about your routine. Are you in a co op? Are you going to a school? Are you doing it yourself at home? Like, I just would love to see and hear about what you are doing in your own family. Also, if you had never heard of Waldorf education before, whether you have kids or not and you listen to this episode, what do you think? Are you like, okay, love it. Like, I am because I just need somebody to nerd out over it with me. Make sure to subscribe to the real Alex Clark YouTube channel so you can watch My Day in the Life attending the Acorn School with Star and Emily Rose. They are so, so sweet and so generous to offer for me to attend this class with all these kids. It's absolutely hilarious and awesome. And I think it's really going to change what we have typically thought of as what education should look like in America. New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern, anywhere you get your podcast. And of course, please leave a five star review. If you love this episode, send it to somebody new. Tell them you've got to become a Culture Apothecary listener. We are healing a sick culture physically, mentally and spiritually. Twice a week. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.