← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Surrendering Control: Trusting God In The Chaos Of Motherhood | @M.is.for.mama
01:12:45
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- [00:00]
A
You don't have to play with your kids very often to be a good mom. One of the best ways to enjoy your children is to like them. One of the best ways to like your children is to set the kind of boundaries and model the kind of behavior and teach the kind of principles that help them to understand what it means to be an enjoyable person to be around. When the world tells us we would be better off prioritizing almost anything else, is it worth it? The answer? You bet your Stretch Marks.
- [00:52]
B
Motherhood stretches women in ways no one talks about beyond the physical, deep into our souls and faith. In this episode we unpack those soul stretching moments with Abby halberstadt, mom of 10 and author of you Bet yout Stretch Marks. You may remember Abby from my extremely viral episode I did on why Gentle Parenting Isn't Biblical back when the show was called the Spillover. It was such a good episode. You should listen to that one after this if you haven't yet. Today though, Abby is here to dive into the hard realities of parenting large families. She's a mom of 10. Again. I gotta just. I gotta just stress that because wow, that's incredible. The tension between surrender and control and how to find hope when the day to day feels overwhelming. If you want an honest, faith filled look at motherhood that is both raw and encouraging, you will not want to miss this conversation. And if you're like me and you're not a mom, this is still a beautiful episode to listen and learn from. Big thanks to why Refi for letting us film in their studio while my grandma is using mine to teach her hip hop class. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark, YouTube or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Please pause right now. Also leave a five star review telling others why this is your favorite podcast. It is free and it takes less than 10 seconds and really helps me out. Join the Cute Servitus Facebook group to make friends with other like minded women, attend meetups in your area and continue in depth discussions about what you hear on this show. Please welcome my friend and author Abby Halberstadt, AKA M is for Mama to Culture Apothecary. What do you mean when you say motherhood stretches our souls, not just our skin?
- [02:31]
A
I think any mom probably knows what I mean simply because I mean if you're coming from a Christian perspective, the soul is the part that lives forever, right? It is the thing that makes us human as opposed to just animal. When you have this small child or big child that is pushing you to your limits every single day Whether it's intentionally, like when they're older and it's just kind of exercising their autonomy and they're pushing their limits and finding their boundaries, or when they're little and they're just not sleeping well at night and you feel so stretched physically, a lot of times you find yourself at your physical limit and you also feel like you are spiritually being kind of just scraped, like not enough butter across too much bread. And so when you feel your soul being stretched so much of the time, it's because you're recognizing your need for the Lord. Like you're recognizing, I have come to the limits of myself, my soul needs Jesus, all of me does. But you start to recognize existentially, spiritually, just how depleted you are and how much this whole motherhood gig is pushing you right out to the very edge.
- [03:40]
B
Sometimes I wonder if that is why, you know, scripture said be fruitful, multiply have children is because, you know, God knew the sanctificate, the sanctification process that would happen with having children. And I wonder with the amount of women by choice, you know, choosing not to have children, just focusing on themselves, like the negative impacts that that could have on society, like just not having someone else to challenge you, the opportunity to be selfless, to take care of somebody else, you know what I'm saying?
- [04:10]
A
Yeah, well, and I don't think that children are the only thing that stretch us by any means.
- [04:14]
B
Of course not.
- [04:15]
A
They are certainly not the only means of sanctification. But one thing that I always tell moms and to be grateful for, which is a twist on what they really want to do, which is be like, why, oh why is this happening to me? You know, why? Why can't he just sleep? Why can't he just obey? Why can't he just get potty trained? Why can't he just come home on curfew without my reminding him? Why can't he just clean his room? She cause it'll be she as well. And I remind them we are exhorted by Scripture, constantly die to self, lose your life so that you will find it in Christ. Take up your cross daily. Sometimes in Western culture particularly, it's hard to find opportunities to do that because we could stay on our phones in our air conditioned houses all day long, never interact with anybody else, order our food in, get our entertainment streamed, constantly go to online university. Like we don't have to interact with other humans in our current culture. Motherhood requires you to. And there is a built in component of dying to self that we can be thankful for. We have sanctification waking us up at 3am sometimes or keeping us up till 1am and that's a good thing.
- [05:22]
B
The title is you bet your stretch marks, which some women might be like, well, does this not apply to me because I don't have literal stretch marks.
- [05:30]
A
Well, neither do I. Like, I have 10 physical children that have come out of my physical body and for whatever reason that did not result in the obvious pregnancy stretch marks. I have plenty of plenty of other evidence on my body that I've had children. I have a leg length discrepancy for my second one who was 24 inches long and 9 pounds 2 ounces and all kinds of other things. But I don't have the actual like marks of motherhood stretch marks on my belly. That doesn't mean I'm not a legit mom. I do think that when we think about stretch marks more as a metaphorical thing, then it applies to every mom, to bio moms, to foster moms, to adoptive moms, to step moms, to grandmothers that are parenting the next generation because they have to. Any situation where the Lord has placed these children in your care as their mother, it is going to stretch. You are going to have marks from that.
- [06:19]
B
What do you say to the mom who feels like motherhood has broken me?
- [06:23]
A
I just got two of these messages last night. Literally this message, like, motherhood is testing my faith. I feel like it has ground me down to the very kind of dust of who I was before. I don't know how to go on. And, and one, I would really encourage that mom to step back and take a look at her current circumstances because so much of the time when we feel completely broken down, it has to do with what's going on right now. It may not be a bird's eye view of what motherhood actually is now when I say what's going on right now. I have had seasons where I felt so stretched and so pushed to my limit and so desperate for the Lord. And so, like, is any of this working? That lasted for years. So I really am talking about zooming out and saying, am I so focused on the hard right now and feeling broken right now that I'm not recognizing that this is actually building me up for the future? That's huge, huge, huge encouragement for moms who are especially in the trenches of little years motherhood, where they're like, I can't imagine anything other than wiping butts and making peanut butter sandwiches on repeat and repeating the same phrase 47 times a minute. It feels like sometimes. And you can say, listen, it feels like brokenness now. But if we believe that God's word is true, and it is, then we know that he's using even this, Even this mundane struggle, even this medical catastrophe, because it could be one end or the other. It could be something that just feels like it's slowly chipping away at your sanity and you feel broken as a result of it. Or it could be like, how will I ever make it through this? Someone just messaged me yesterday saying you talked about how the Lord is near the brokenhearted. I don't feel that way. And I lost my son two days before his due date. I had a totally normal pregnancy, and then I had a stillbirth. Quite honestly, our family's doing okay. Like, I'm functioning. I'm reading the Bible, I'm praying. I just don't feel anything right now.
- [08:33]
B
What do you say to a mom when she says, I just don't feel God's presence in the broken parts?
- [08:38]
A
When she says to me, I. I don't. I don't emotionally have any connection with God right now, but I am waking up each day putting one step in front of the other. I still have children to take care of. I think we have to recognize that God's nearness to us may not be a feeling, but instead a practical daily mercy of getting out of bed, a breath in our lungs, of the ability to put the oatmeal in the slow cooker the night before, of the ability to have children pile around us and put their heads on us and we can read books to them. There is great mercy and grace in the daily allowances of what's called common grace or goodness that God gives us each day. It may not look like what we thought being near to the brokenhearted was supposed to be, but we kind of don't get to define those terms. Wow.
- [09:30]
B
Yeah.
- [09:30]
A
And we can be so thankful like, like, Lord, thank you. That my eyes are open today and that I can swing my legs out of bed this morning, thankful that I have children who are keeping me distracted from my grief. I do think that the Lord comes to us and gives us peace and comfort and joy that is not from ourselves, but when we're not feeling those things yet. Being faithful to be grateful for the. Those little everyday common graces sometimes starts to shift us toward that emotional kind of reach that we need to get there.
- [10:03]
B
And that's such an important reminder whether you're a mother or not. I mean, that mindset applies to anybody in Any season, going through difficult things. Yeah, you've talked about how hard isn't bad in motherhood. Can you talk about a moment where hard felt bad for you?
- [10:20]
A
I experienced two miscarriages last year that felt bad. I say hard is not the same thing as bad. In other words, we can't automatically equate the two. But sometimes hard is bad. Sometimes we live in a broken world. We always live in a broken world. But sometimes we see that brokenness playing out in hard things that are bad. Death is bad. Yes, yes, Christ has overcome it eternally, but we still have the effects of the fall and the curse. And those are bad. Those aren't good, good things that man sinned and therefore we have death in this world. But there can even be good that comes from things that are objectively bad, objectively evil. The Lord can still use those for good in our lives as he draws us closer to Himself, as He shows his character to us, as he grows us and matures us beyond anything we were capable of achieving in and of ourselves.
- [11:14]
B
How has your understanding of God's sovereignty shaped the way that you approach parenting, especially during some of your harder seasons?
- [11:22]
A
If God is sovereign, and I do believe he is over everything, then it takes a whole lot of pressure off of me to be perfect, to get everything right the first time, to maneuver or manipulate the outcome right. Because if my hope is in my really good parenting, to quote unquote, produce a child that will follow God, be successful, be community minded, be a good parent themselves, then if that doesn't come about all of a sudden, God's sovereignty comes crashing down because he didn't fulfill things the way that I engineered them to be, but if I truly believe that my goal is to honor God, to do all things to the glory of God, parenting, making meals, coming on a podcast, writing a book, whatever he has placed in front of me, and that he is sovereign and powerful overall to actually work and do according to his good pleasure and that it is always good what he determines, even if it doesn't feel good, or even if there are things that are not going how I would plan, certainly then I can take my hands off. It's not that you take your hands off the wheel and say, okay, Jesus, take the wheel, and I'm just gonna close my eyes and go off the cliff. He calls us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. He doesn't call us to work for our salvation. And there's a difference.
- [12:50]
B
In what ways has motherhood really stretched your faith? And how has that Stretching refined your trust in God.
- [12:57]
A
It showed me what a sinner I am. I am no longer. There are people that say you are not a sinner because you've been redeemed by grace. Absolutely. I am not. That is not my identity anymore.
- [13:08]
B
Right.
- [13:08]
A
I am not a condemned sinner. Satan has no hold over me. Death has no hold over me ultimately. But I still struggle with things. And man, is motherhood a magnifying glass for your lack of patience, for your lack of gentleness, for your lack of self control and self discipline when you find yourself frustrated at your kids and you realize I didn't do the mom math correctly and back this up far enough to be ready and time to go. And now I'm paying for scrolling on my phone or taking too long to do this or you know the phones are a big one. Yes, that's for the modern day mom. That's going to be such a mirror of our self focus and our easy distraction and our excuse making and things like that which people get upset when I say things like that. But man, I'm talking about myself and you start to recognize, oh man, that whole I need the every hour, every hour I need the oh Lord, I need the like. It's not trite, it's true. I'm doing none of this in my own strength. And that's both freeing but also really convicting.
- [14:12]
B
Do you have tips and tricks that you're doing to help with screen time for yourself at home?
- [14:17]
A
Yeah. Okay, so mine would probably not be great for other people. I know a lot of other people will carve out time to sit and like knock out all of their things at once. But I would feel crazy if I sat down for an hour straight and answer DMs and stuff. So what I typically will do is I will do something that I have to do and then do a load of laundry, stick that phone in my back pocket, not look at it while I'm doing something else and then I'll have. I mean I do walk around with my phone with me most of the time or near me. I keep it on silent and I lose it all the time too. Nobody can call it and find it, but I don't know that I have a perfect balance. But I do feel like as long as I'm good about like putting it aside face down so that I'm not looking at it while a child is talking to me, I do better with these bite sized like take care of it and then put it away and get something done than if I were to, like, carve out two hours. Then I start feeling kind of nervous energy of, like, this is too much time on this. So that's what works for me.
- [15:18]
B
I met a guy at a wedding who told me his daughter needed an mri. One mri. Interns wouldn't cover it because they wanted her to try Tylenol and wait it out. Yeah, this is a child who's got a mystery brain issue. And big insurance is like, let's circle back in Q4. So this dad pays out of pocket 10 grand. Boom, gone. Now he's ubering part time and selling essential oils on Facebook. Sad. That could be you. Because this is America, land of freedom. Unless you want to know what's inside your own head. That is why I love what crowd health is doing. It's not insurance. It's freedom from insurance. You join a community that helps each other out with actual medical costs, not bloated admin fees and yacht payments for some vice president. You get access to telemedicine, a database of cash, doctors, cheaper prescriptions. And when it's your turn, the crowd helps fund your bills. It's people helping people. No networks, no piles of paperwork. No one's saying, we regret to inform you unless it's about your attitude, which I get all the time. Let crowd health help you with health care needs. Get started today for just $99 per month for your first three months. For by using code culture@joincrowd health.com Crowd health is not insurance. Learn more at joincrowd health.com that's joincrowdhealth.com Code culture. My friend turned 35 and immediately started falling apart like a rental car with 200,000 miles on it. He pulled a hamstring getting out of an Uber. Pathetic. He got winded reaching for his AirPods.
- [16:37]
A
Gay.
- [16:38]
B
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- [18:01]
A
Oh well, trusting God's plan is more of the big picture thing. I'm not going to quote trust God's plan when we have to be out the door in the morning for church. That, that feels like a recipe for disaster. The Lord has entrusted certain privileges and responsibilities to me, right? And so when I talk about trusting God's plan, that's like how my kids are going to turn out. Whether they're going to safe when they start driving by themselves, whether they're going to obey the boundaries that we've set if I'm not there at home to enforce.
- [18:29]
B
How do you let go of that fear of needing to be in control of your kids as they need to have those independent growing moments?
- [18:38]
A
I actually enjoy watching them grow. I, I, I don't feel a ton of anxiety or stress watching them learn and grow new things in new things. I also have been able to watch my kids make some poor choices in smaller things, but then better choices in bigger things. And I think that's one of the strategies in parenting is that you give them kind of the freedom to maybe be a little foolish without just opening the floodgates to all kinds of influences that would be too much for a 14 year old or a 12 year old. And then when they are a little foolish and experience some practical consequences or natural consequences or mom imposed consequences, those are good too. And they're able to see like, okay, there's a reason why, why we've talked about this.
- [19:28]
B
There, there's, is there like an example that you can give of a time where like zoomed out as the parent, you're like, that's not going to go the way they're thinking, but you kind of let Your kid make that small, foolish mistake so they could learn a bigger lesson.
- [19:41]
A
It would just be in things like watching them in a friendship where they're maybe not making the best choices and you have, you've given wise counsel, but then you see a situation play out where you're like, yeah, you guys weren't good influences on each other. And now, like I said, you have consequences. And, you know, your, your coach, your teacher isn't thrilled with you and you have to go apologize for something or, you know, and I'm never going to go to. I remember my mom being so good about if there was something. I was kind of a goody two shoes kid because I just liked the concept of the parent approval kind of thing.
- [20:23]
B
Yeah, I was the complete opposite. So I was like a nightmare.
- [20:27]
A
Well, and I mean, that's. It has its own, it has its own pitfalls when you're constantly trying to make sure, you know, everybody's happy with you and things like that. So there are issues there. But when I see, for example, so, so I really didn't like, you know, parents or coaches or, or teachers upset with me and I knew, like, how hard it was to go and have to like, humble yourself. I remember one time, one time I pantsed a friend of mine on the parking lot at our teeny, teeny tiny private school, which was very much so not like me and was very much so like her. And she had been tugging on my shorts and I just got tired of it. Okay. So I had hips at 12 years old. She didn't. So I got tired of it, leaned over and gave a little tweak to her shorts. Well, they just fell straight down. And that's when the coach looked over and I remember my, the principal one looking shocked when I walked in because it was totally not me. And then my parents understandably being like, dude, we don't do this. And I remember thinking back, like, I know this, you know, I know this. Like, this is an anomaly. Like, we're, we're okay. And so. And they gave me the. It's not like I got punished majorly or anything. It wasn't the biggest deal. But I think they were a little bit like, whoa, is this the beginning of rebellion? But they didn't freak out.
- [21:42]
B
Yeah.
- [21:42]
A
And so when we see blips like that, we go, hey, what were you thinking? Like, walk me through the thought process.
- [21:49]
B
You good?
- [21:50]
A
Yeah, you good. Exactly. That's what my 17 year old says to me all the time. Mom, you good? So my mom did not ever shield me from moments or other ones like that. Like if I didn't get the part in the community play and it was because of favoritism, she wasn't like, you should have gotten it, you should have. She didn't go to bat for me like that. She said, there's something to learn from this. Like, you're not going to be first all the time. Even if someone actually was unfair, that's an opportunity for you to be grace filled toward them. It's an opportunity for you to be humble. Like, look at it this way. And so when my kids do make missteps, I'm not going to go around cleaning up after their messes. They are going to have to own them, apologize, make restitution, and those are all really great life lessons anyway.
- [22:33]
B
And then back to the balancing responsibilities but still trusting God's plan.
- [22:37]
A
Yeah.
- [22:37]
B
Because I totally took you off track.
- [22:39]
A
That's my fault. But you got back on track. Good job.
- [22:42]
B
Yeah. So you were, you were talking about how like, well, I, I'm not just saying I'm making a plan and then being like, well, I hope we get there. We're trusting God.
- [22:52]
A
No, I think that there is a lot of biblical precedent for the Lord giving us responsibilities for his, giving us roles that we're to fulfill, and that there's a lot of biblical precedents for doing those with excellence. And so when you're talking about the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. And the Bible is continually giving lists of things to do and things not to do, things that bring blessing and things that bring cursing. And it's not a formula, but it's a principle that is good to follow. So a good principle to follow would be that if you would like to enjoy your children. And I really do think that that is one of the biggest struggles that moms have today. I actually talk about that in my newest book, a whole chapter on what to do if you don't really like your kid very much.
- [23:45]
B
That's an epidemic.
- [23:46]
A
Oh yeah.
- [23:47]
B
Mom's not enjoying their children very much.
- [23:48]
A
So. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's in my DMs constantly. Like, I love him. I would give, I've, I've given my life for him, but I don't really like him very much. He's annoying.
- [23:57]
B
How do you overcome that?
- [23:58]
A
Okay, so back up for what I was just saying, which is one of the best ways to enjoy your children is to like them. One of the best ways to like your children is to set the kind of boundaries and model the kind of behavior and, and teach the kind of principles that help them to understand what it means to be an enjoyable person to be around. Kids don't necessarily pop out winsome and wonderful in some ways they absolutely do, because you're 100% going to use that, that quote on your Sizzler. And people are like, yes, they do.
- [24:36]
B
She knows me.
- [24:37]
A
I know you, Alex. I know you. On the one hand, they are amazing creatures from their first wrinkly face, little moments to when they're so big, like you have to reach up high to give them hugs. They're amazing. But on the other hand, they are frustrating, they are selfish, just like we are. They don't learn the first time, just like we don't. Someone the other day was like, is it normal that I have to tell my 2 year old to do the same thing every single day? And I was like, you know, there might be some things that God has to tell me to do every single day, like shut my mouth when I want to make a smart comment or want to speak too harshly. Like, little kids are just tiny versions of the same things we struggle with as adults, except they haven't had as much time to practice. So one thing we can do is view them how God views them. He views them with great grace and mercy and kindness and everlasting love. And we're short on a lot of those things. Two, we can show them the way if, if they don't seem like they know how to interact well with their peers, let's show them how. Let's give consequences if we need to when they don't so that they remember the next time. Like, I might want to do that a little differently. Let's get down on their level and be willing to inconvenience ourselves, be willing to have long conversations with them in the car. I remember a conversation I had with one of my daughters where she was really struggling with friendships. And she is one of the easiest people to get along with I have ever met. She has a wonderful personality. She's cheerful, she, she's kind, she's funny, she's smart. Like, why would anyone not want to be her friend? And yet it was an awkward age. Lots of kids her age wonder if anybody likes them. And so we had this whole conversation and I said, hey, just maybe don't try so hard. Maybe take a deep breath and just recognize that you don't have to mold yourself to what you, they, you think that they want you to be. Just if the Lord gives you something good to say, say it. Let the rest ride. Within six months, she has a girl that went from being kind of a on and off again friend to close friend. She feels confident in her relationships. She's got a larger friend group. That's not gonna be the truth for anyone, but she just needed to kind of relax her shoulders a little bit and recognize this moment didn't define her friendship for the rest of her life. That wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it was probably like close to an hour conversation just sitting in the car in the garage with the car not running. I should note.
- [27:10]
B
That's good.
- [27:10]
A
Yes, that's. That's an opportunity where it's like, I probably could have gone inside and gone to bed. Right?
- [27:17]
B
Yeah.
- [27:18]
A
But that was more important and I am seeing her enjoy other people. Other people enjoy her more and I enjoy her more too as we have these meaningful conversations where I can teach her, but I can also learn from her too. That's the thing, is we can learn from our kids.
- [27:34]
B
I have two burning questions, I hope I don't forget each that I want to ask based on what you just said. One is, as a mom of a large family, 10 kids, you know, you were perceptive enough to notice in one of your children at that moment. She needs some one on one time. I need to pour into her, I need to give her some advice on friendships. How do you make sure that you are getting things done all the, you know, your busy day dealing with a bunch of kids on task while also being able to see in different children, oh, this person needs a little special attention here. This person needs me, you know, for X, Y and Z. Like how do you make sure that you're on task and getting all the busy day to day stuff done while still getting those quality moments in with each of your 10 children?
- [28:16]
A
Well, for one, we homeschool, so we're around each other a lot. And I do think that that's kind of a cheat code for allowing me to be able to see those moments and have those moments. So for example, yesterday I was flying out here for this podcast, but I wasn't leaving until the evening. And so during the day I finished packing in the morning and did some laundry and then I made breakfast. I probably made breakfast earlier than that, but made breakfast for some kids. Some kids like to make their own. The little kids need me to help them and had breakfast with them. We did bible reading as a family. I caught up on something that I had to do on email for a little bit and then I went and played pool with my middle kids. And then one came and found me and wanted to read a book. So I stopped whatever I was doing and read a book. We're not homeschooling right now. We take a break during the summer, so we have a little bit more leeway. You know, the day's a little more fluid. And then at another point, somebody needed me to do something else with them. I think they wanted to play, like, we have a sport court. I think they wanted to play pickleball on the sport court. So I went and played a game with them for a little while. And then I talked to my daughter about the grocery order that we were going to do because she's getting really good at making dinner. And she was like, I got this mom. She also. She really likes to make cool recipes. Whereas, like, I'm down to my, like, 25 that I make all the time because I don't have any more room in my brain. She was like, this is kind of boring. Mom, can I make Asian food? I'm like, go for it. So she's like, I got this. I'm gonna place a pickup order. So we had that whole conversation. And that's just an example of touch points throughout the day where, yes, I had things I had to get done, I had content I had to record, I had packing to finish, laundry to catch up on. But there were also lots of opportunities to interact with my kids throughout the day because I'm there.
- [29:48]
B
Yeah.
- [29:49]
A
I also think that there is a bit of a myth that if you have a large family, you view your kids like a blob or a herd. And I think of my kids just as individually as a mom that has one or two. They are so unique to me. They never blend together. That never feels like, you know, what's your name again? And who are you? That would be silly. But I do think there is a perception that moms of large families couldn't possibly see their children as individuals. But we really do.
- [30:18]
B
I think it's possible to fall in that trap no matter how big your family is, Especially if you are more. If you catch yourself being more prioritized by your social media or phone or whatever, scrolling, you know, doom scrolling, then paying attention to your kids.
- [30:31]
A
Oh, yeah, doom scrolling is. No, that's out. It's a waste of time and it will get you in your head and then you really won't be paying attention to the people in your family. So. No.
- [30:45]
B
One of my guy friends in LA told me he recently went on a first date with this Girl. She told him she's into biohacking and intermittent emotional availability. I don't know what that is. I'm gonna be honest. Well, he takes her to this vegan fusion nightmare downtown where the waiter has a mustache that looks like he lost a bet. He orders the protein option, okay? It's a lab grown pigeon nugget on a plate shaped like a human hand. It's gray, it's steaming. He says, is this cooked? The waiter goes, no, it's curated. So now he's sitting there starving, surrounded by people drinking mushroom lattes and discussing their ancestral trauma, and he realizes, I should have just brought a damn snack. That's why I tell everyone, carry a Paleo Valley 100 grass fed beef stick with you at all times. Like a rational adult prepping for a societal collapse. Because that's what's happening around us. These things are made from cows that live better lives than most influencers. Grass fed grass. Finished. Raised on actual grass, okay? Not printed in a biotech lab. And they're naturally fermented. They're not dipped in chemical goo and regret like every gas station meat tube. Flavors like jalapeno and garlic summer sausage that tastes like you stormed a ranch with your bare hands and took your power back. Go to paleovalley.com. use code Alex for 15% off. That's paleoval.com code Alex. Because when society collapses, you don't want pigeon mush curated by a guy named Sky. You want a beef stick with backbone. Here's the real scary science behind microplastics. They might mess with your fertility. Yeah, you heard that right. These tiny plastic bits could be hijacking your hormones, speeding up aging, and basically playing puppet master with your body. Studies suggest microplastics disrupt hormone signals, which means your body's natural rhythm could be out of whack. Imagine your reproductive system trying to work, but the plastic is sending it bad texts all day. That's why I take Utsy's microplastic daily detox every morning. It's like sending a cleanup crew inside your body. Black kale extract, green tea, a bunch of stuff, natural, all clean. Backed by science to help your system fight back. If you care about your future or just want to avoid weird plastic hormones, check out utsy.com. use code lotox to save 30% off. That's utsy.com. use code LOTOX to save 30%. Here's my. My other question for you, because you were talking about fruits of the spirit. If you are a mother and you realize I'm struggling so badly with one of the fruits of the spirit. What is one of the best ways to work on that?
- [33:14]
A
So last time I was on this podcast, I talked about something called the Gentleness Challenge, because after my eighth baby, I was dealing with something called postpartum rage. It you could just say it's a condition and move on, but I really felt convicted that I needed to face it head on. So I created this 30 day challenge, did a social media thing. Nobody needs to do it that way by any stretch, but it's what I felt convicted to do. Thousands of mom joins, moms joined within hours. And we did this. This whole focus on gentle speech or, or shutting your mouth altogether. If you didn't have any gentle speech, if it was all gone, you just, just, just didn't say anything. And I've had people ask me and, and then I turned it into an ebook because people were like, but can you walk us through it? I've had people ask me to do that for every fruit of the Spirit. And I'm like, I could do that. Because it's a pretty simple formula of focusing on the character attribute that the Lord has highlighted that you need to work on focusing on scripture about that character attribute. God's word is a lamp into our feet and a light into our path. That means that when it feels dark, we need his word to shine the light so that we can see where we should be going. Wow. And so what if it's patience? Well, be careful what you pray for, because if you ask God for patience, he's gonna give you opportunities to practice. He's not just gonna magically give you patience. But then when you have the opportunity to practice and you realize you're failing again and you go, lord, help. So many times it has gone from grinding my teeth and pulling out my hair to I can take a deep breath, like, just a brief moment of clarity and recognizing that, like I was talking about earlier, for the grace that it is right instead of feeling like, oh, look, look, I'm getting better at patience. Like, thank you, Lord, for that beat to think, swallow the words that I won't have to apologize for in five minutes. Self control. Self control is about repetition. You do teeny, tiny little habit changes over and over again, asking the Lord to give you strength each day, to add maybe a little bit after a week. And before long, you find that things that felt impossible to tackle you have taken a little tiny chomp out of until you've eaten the whole elephant. Or faithfulness, let's say you Just feel like you start something and you drop it all the time. Pick one thing, memorize God's word about that one thing and do that one thing into the ground until you know you have faithfulness in that area and what that feels like. It's like building a muscle and then flexing it. We don't even know what our tricep muscles are until we start working them and they hurt. And then we start to feel the definition and we can isolate right what we should be flexing. I think when we are able to say, I don't have this thing, but I want it badly enough to pursue it in Christ's strength, pray about it, memorize about it, ask people to hold me accountable, work on it daily. That we recognize the Holy Spirit does the true work in us, but he asks us to walk alongside Him.
- [36:09]
B
How do you see the Gospel intersecting with the messy realities of motherhood?
- [36:14]
A
So. So the Gospel is that we are sinners, all of us are sinners, including our kids. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That we without Christ are lost. That there is a chasm between us and our Father God, which we can never breach, we can never cross, and that Christ died, gave himself up for us to breach that chasm, to make a way where there was no way. That's the gospel. When we recognize that God did that for us, it informs how we are able to offer grace to our kids. If we think that the gospel is just some heady concept, some one and done thing where I said a prayer when I was 7, so I'm going to heaven. We have missed the full implication of what it means to daily live in the grace of someone laying down their lives for us, because then that means we can do the same for our kids. Maybe not literally, but man, are there opportunities to lay down our wishes and our wants and our preferences and our time every day.
- [37:16]
B
How do you give yourself grace as a mom?
- [37:19]
A
I think that we have to be careful with that word to make sure that we're using it correctly. Grace is not the same thing as allowance. So allowance says, I'm not particularly good at this and I don't really like it, so I'm just not gonna. Grace says, this is something I struggle with and I just failed at it. But God is. God is great for that too. And there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So condemnation and conviction are the opposite sides of this coin, where conviction comes from the Holy Spirit. And we have the grace to respond to it because we have his spirit within us. Condemnation says, give up now. You're just not any good at this. This right, that's from Satan. And we can push that away and say, that is a lie. From the pit of hell, I have been redeemed from that. I have been made more than a conqueror in Christ. Therefore, even if I'm not good at this yet, I'm going to keep going down this narrow path. And when I mess up, what an opportunity to show our kids the gospel when we're willing to say, I am confessing to you that I messed up, I am repenting to you and asking your forgiveness. And then I am committing to you to do excellently going forward. As much as I have the strength and Christ strength in me, what is.
- [38:41]
B
The biggest lie that moms believe about their bodies after they have kids?
- [38:45]
A
That they are broken and not as worthy as they used to be. And that's one aspect certainly. Stretch marks, the title. You bet your stretch marks is not even primarily about the physical marks. But we can't ignore them. I mean, I may not have the tiger stripes across my belly, but I've got plenty of stretch marks on my hips. You know, everybody's like, what about breastfeeding in your boobs? What about C section scars? I have varicose veins that go all the way down this right leg. They are not cute. For years, I didn't wear shorts because I was like, my leg is a monstrosity, and nobody needs to see that. I wear shorts all the time now because quite honestly, at a certain point, you, one, recognize that your body was supposed to be a tool, not a treasure all along. And two, no matter how much you tried to store it up, if you thought it was a treasure, you were never gonna be able to keep it. You put it in that chest and somebody's gonna bore a hole in the bottom. That's what time and age and sickness and stress does to your body, regardless of whether you're a mom. So I think we have this myth in our heads that motherhood ruins our body, when in fact, we were never going to have anything preserve it for all time anyway.
- [40:00]
B
That's right.
- [40:01]
A
So what an opportunity to bear the marks of motherhood proudly because I have something to show for it, right? I have this amazing family the Lord has given me. No, my body was never perfect. Perfect by world standards to begin with. Yes. I do steward it well. Like, I'm a fitness instructor. I exercise daily, I get out in the sunshine, I drink my supplements, I eat nourishing food, I Don't think we turn to asceticism and go, okay, none of it matters. It's all going to fall apart anyway, so who cares? I quit.
- [40:31]
B
Right?
- [40:32]
A
That's. That's not the answer. But idolizing it or trying to, like, obsessively preserve something that was never going to stay perfect to begin with. Pass.
- [40:40]
B
What was, like, the big overarching message that you really wanted to drive home in this new book?
- [40:45]
A
The phrase came to me years ago, and I first used it probably three or four or five years ago. I don't even know how long, when I had so many people asking me, like, okay, you've been a mom at that point. Like, let's say it's five years ago. @ that point. My oldest would have been 14. So just entering teenagehood, had a bunch of little kids. I had 10 kids in 14 years, so I would have had, like, little bitty baby twins. My second set of twins would have been newborns and just such a stretching season and not a lot of help yet. Not a lot of kids that are. That are. Nobody can run to the grocery store for me or say, hey, Mom, I'll make Asian food for dinner or anything like that yet that. And so I had these moms coming to me and saying, like, you're in the thick of it. I'm in the thick of it. Like, I feel like maybe I'm not even leaving a mark. Like, is this. Is this working? Please give me some hope that it's worth. Is this worth it? Like, I'm pouring myself out every single day, and these dang kids are doing the same stuff every single day. Help, you know, give me some hope. And so the answer that this book is giving resoundingly, the title is, is all of this effort of pouring ourselves out and making motherhood a priority when the world tells us we would be better off prioritizing almost anything else, in some cases, is it worth it? The answer? You bet your stretch marks it is. It has an impact on you now. It has an impact on your children now, and it has an impact on them for eternity and the legacy you leave to generations to come them.
- [42:12]
B
Has parenthood changed at all the way you see God?
- [42:15]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness, yes. Because when we aren't parents ourselves and. And someone's going to say, well, then you don't think I can fully understand the character of God if I'm not a parent? No, I. I think that the Lord reveals himself to us the way that we need him to reveal himself to us. I don't mean that in a seeker friendly way. I mean that the Lord is capable of meeting us exactly where we are and our circumstances don't have to change for us to have a, a full relationship with Him. But when we have the benefit of seeing him as Father God, when we are being a parent, no, I'm not a father. But seeing like the level of patience and long suffering and gentleness and kindness that he is modeling for me, it absolutely changes your view of just his love for you.
- [42:59]
B
If nothing else, I think American culture especially really prioritizes productivity, perfection, busyness. That busyness is like a know a trait we should all strive for. And it kind of contradicts the biblical concept of prioritizing and making sure we make room for rest and Sabbath. How do you balance having a Sabbath, having rest while still the busyness of parenting 10 kids?
- [43:29]
A
I do think it is a balance in that that's meant to be there. We see that God created the world in six days and then on the seventh day he rested. If you look at the percentage wise, you've got about 85% work, 15% rest. So it's not bad to be diligent. In fact, we're called to it. Proverbs talks all of the time about what a sluggard is and how that that is ruinous to yourself and your family. It says that a man who doesn't provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever. Like there's some really strong language about slothfulness, about laziness, about not doing quote unquote, the work. It's just the right work. You know, it's, it's the work of serving God in the daily, taking care of those he's given us to steward. Well, which is very fulfilling work. But a lot of times it isn't very showy work. So it's not necessarily going to promote self. It's not going to get your name on a billboard. It's not going to attract a lot of attention. It's those daily quiet, faithful acts of service that I think are what the Bible really lauds as true and good works work. But then you're right, it 100% says at a certain point you stop working and you take a day of rest and a day of worship. Now as Christians, that day is Sunday. That's the Lord's day. And we have that day specifically to the Christian culture because that's the day that Jesus rose again. The early church celebrated on that, worshiping God together communally on Sunday, not Saturday. In the Jewish Tradition. And so for our family, Sundays are not necessarily a day where no work can happen. I mean, if we haven't gotten into the yard all week and it's like up to our knees, then somebody will probably get on the lawnmower and go out and mow the lawn that afternoon, which is a certain kind of restfulness in and of itself. It produces some peace in our outside, and they'll listen to a book while they do it or something. But the majority of the time at our house on a Sunday, we're going to church in the morning, and then we'll either go out to eat or we will have. I'll have something prepared at home that will come home and we take naps, and the kids that don't take naps have rest time. And then we'll spend the evening together as a family. And that is such a recharging day. And I look forward to it every single week. So I do think we have to orient our brain toward that focus of being faithful and diligent most of the time and then trusting that God's sovereignty will take care of that 15%. Where we're just resting.
- [46:01]
B
I walk into a friend's apartment. Gorgeous place. Reclaimed wood, herbal tea, the whole thing. But it smells like synthetic lavender and existential dread. I go, what candle is that? She goes, oh, it was on sale 7.99. I flip it over the ingredients list. There isn't one. Just the word fragrance, TM, which is legally allowed to mean we're not telling you. So now your living room smells like a chemically engineered beach memory, and you're wondering why your hormones are doing backflip clips. That's why I only burn natural sloth. Beeswax candles. Veteran owned, handmade in Texas. And no weird mystery fumes. They're made with pure beeswax, wooden wicks, and only essential oils, not whatever they're cooking up in the basement of a flavor lab in New Jersey. They burn clean, they smell amazing and won't leave you feverishly googling endocrine system damage. Go to naturalsloth.com use code Alex for 15 off. That's naturalsloth.com code Alex for 15 off. Light something that smells good and doesn't feel like a psychological experiment. What was one season of motherhood that really wrecked you emotionally? And what did God teach you in.
- [47:10]
A
That season when we were building? We. We've built a couple of houses together. And people always like, oh, sure, you built house and, oh, my husband actually built. Built the house with his dad and so our first time that we did that, we had two children. They were both tiny, like two and six months. And it took about nine months. And we lived in my parents second floor, rented from them for about nine months, moved in. The house was definitely not finished. It was stressful, but I wouldn't say anything wrecked me about that time. Second time around took about two years. It was more complicated build. We had more kids, we had more responsibilities and we went through a really hard friendship breakup with a family that we knew. And I was pregnant during quite a bit of that build. And then nursing a newborn, had six other kids. We're homeschooling, we're doing all the life stuff. And I remember dealing with some pretty intense anxiety after I had him. Probably hormones out of whack. But also when we moved into that house, there was red dirt everywhere. Like we, our first house sold to the first and only people that saw it. And so we thought we would have like 60 days to get out. And we had like 40.
- [48:21]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [48:22]
A
And my husband sat down and mapped out out every day. Every like day with the hours that we had to work. It was 16 hour days of like I was moving everything over here and taking care of kids and cleaning out like the barn and selling stuff and running errands and he was just, he was literally pouring concrete countertops and installing electrical lines and all this stuff. So down to the wire. And when we moved in, it still wasn't done. And our, we had no landscaping, no grass, no anything. So. So all the moms out there are picturing red dirt and seven kids and it's in every crack and crevice. I remember one morning and my four month old, which four month sleep regression is common anyway, but he just like hardcore went from sleeping well to waking up like every 30 minutes all night. So no sleep, new house, dirt everywhere, seven kids. We've been doing this for two years. So you know at a certain point you kind of tell yourself I can get through two years of this, but then you kind of want it to be done. Yeah, it wasn't done. I remember at one point I was sleeping on the floor of what would have been my husband's office, but we'd only been there for like two days. And I wake up and there is a painter staring in the window down at me.
- [49:28]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [49:29]
A
Like, because we don't have curtains, we don't have anything and, and the baby's asleep in the little pack and play beside me and I'm just staring up at this man that I don't know, like, trying to remember what I'm wearing. Like, why wearing. I don't have a bra on. What T shirt am I wearing? Like, what's going on? And then this friendship, friendship, break, breakup we were going through. And I just remember such intense moments of, like, not being able to focus because I felt so anxious. Not being able to fix anything because if the flooring wasn't down, we couldn't put the furniture down, so we couldn't take it out of that room. Just shuffling things around and trying to keep from losing my ever loving mind, you know, and also be a decent mom and also make food and also like, like make our appointments and things like that. Life didn't stop. And so I. I think that's the point in motherhood and life where I felt the most like, what, What. What is even happening?
- [50:28]
B
Yeah, like just burn out.
- [50:29]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good word.
- [50:31]
B
Has your idea of beauty changed at all since becoming a mom?
- [50:34]
A
Define those terms a little more for me. Beauty physically, beauty in life. What do you mean?
- [50:40]
B
I guess beauty physically.
- [50:42]
A
Yes, the Bible talks about that. There is the beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit. I'm not naturally gentle or quiet. Me neither.
- [50:51]
B
Me neither. And I just did this whole episode, this, with this woman talking about how, like, I don't know, that's just like such an important virtue as a wife and all this. And I mean, that's very natural for her. And I even said in the interview, I'm like, well, I could never talk like you. I mean, she's just. Everything she says is so kind and are just gentle. And I'm like, well, that's not natural for me. So, yeah, it's funny you bring that up because I've been working through that.
- [51:15]
A
Well, I don't think that it necessarily means that you have to naturally have mannerisms that mirror someone who has those kind of characteristics. Automatically I'm happy with who God made me. I am grateful that he made me a truth teller and a direct speaker and that he gave me gumption. I feel like that has served me well as a mom of 10. However, there's a difference between just kind of personality expressions and being this brash person who's constantly rolling over somebody and interrupting them. That your opinion has to be the first known and nobody can disagree with you, that you don't read the room, that you don't look for the forgotten person and go talk to them. There are lots of ways. Ways of being gentle and kind and having that spirit that Reflects the graciousness of God without smothering the personality that God gave you. I find it really, really attractive when people smile a lot, when they're just. And this is interesting because I smile a lot, but I also don't recognize sometimes when I am like, yeah, just like stinging face. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. And I have bright blue eyes. And sometimes my husband's like, you look real intense right now, you know, so just even pract practicing like making your face welcoming. And I taught Spanish for years in high school and I would walk down the hall and my mom taught at the same school. And at one point she was like, hey, just so you know, it probably serves you well because I was really young when I started teaching. I was 19 when I started teaching Spanish. And she's like, it's probably working for you, but the kids are like afraid of you because your face is so severe when you walk down the hall. And I was just going to the bathroom or something. I know. So I, I just find it really attractive when people have this warm, open, welcoming manner and face and they smile a lot. And I think that's so beautiful. And then I love it when people are. I remember one of my best friends and mentors, Jennifer Flanders, she has long auburn hair and she was talking about how like in pictures she'll be like, look, she's almost 60 or 60. And she's like, look, I have some gray. I have some gray like that. She's just, just totally happy with who she is and just not the least bit ashamed about the world. Saying like, no, you need to be preserved forever. She's like, no, I'm good.
- [53:38]
B
How does your faith, community, support and shape your journey as a mother?
- [53:42]
A
For years I prayed for the community that I have now for years and years. And I always tell moms, because this is one of the DMS that I get most. This is one of the emails that I get most. I feel so alone, I feel so isolated. I feel like nobody shares my values, views. I feel like I am swimming upstream in a culture which is trying to sweep me away into a sea of self focus and godlessness, quite honestly. And I don't know how to do it alone. And my mom, I speak about her often and my dad as well, certainly, but. But my mom, because she's a woman and close to her and she's my example of motherhood, has been such a bastion of always speaking truth and always being direct and always calling me out and always being kind and being servant heart started. She's at My house today. Well, I'm doing this taping and she is running things just like I would run things. Like, it is such a gift to have that built in. And I think we've had that more in the past in our culture. Yeah, but moms really don't have it from their own parents or from their communities. And I always encourage them, keep praying, because even though I had my mom, I didn't have a lot more in my early 20s and early 30s. In the last 10 years though, the Lord has brought along the kind of faith community that just makes your heart sing. And I don't say that lightly. I have. I started this group called Grace Girls about four years ago where my daughter, my oldest daughter will be 15 in a couple of months and she was so like 11 at the time. And then I have. All my girls are grouped in the middle, so I have a 14 year old daughter and two 13 year old twins and then boys on either side of them. And so I was like, I want something for these girls, you know, community. And so, so I teamed up with a couple of other moms who are 10 to 15 years ahead of me and was like, what if we did this thing like once or twice a month we got together and I knew I wanted moms that could just take it and run with it as opposed to I would have to organize everything and make plans. And these were the kind of moms that could, because that's the kind of moms the Lord had brought into my life. And they did. And when I looked around the room because they would invite people to be, oh, this person wants to come, this person wants to come. Just organically, it became this community of moms who were encouraging each other genuinely, like dream team moms. Would I just die to be in a room full of this much wisdom, Titus. To care and instruction and grace and good personalities. Fun. Like, it's been such a blessing to our family. But to me specifically, to get to know these women better because I have something to look up to and to strive toward without any of them being arrogant. Like, none of them are like, like, because I'm doing this right, they're all just really kind people. It's been amazing.
- [56:26]
B
You've got these women who are longing for that sense of community in friendships outside of the home. Right. And then you have people who feel like, I don't even feel like I have a community in my home. I don't feel like my husband is appreciative of anything that I do. I'm starting to Become really resentful. How should those moms handle that in the particulars?
- [56:45]
A
I don't know. Meaning? There are so many things I can't coach moms through as far as, like, a conversation to have because I don't know your husband's work schedule, I don't know your personality. I don't know his personality. I don't know how many kids you have. I don't know your parenting style. I don't know how well you sleep. I don't know what supplements you are or are not taking. There are so many variables that go into those hard seasons that we find ourselves in. And sometimes it isn't just a season. I've talked in my second book, Carter's. Not the same thing as bad about the fact that my dad is bipolar. Kohler and my parents have been married for almost 50 years, and it has been a struggle for my mom for much of their marriage, but she is committed to her marriage. And my. My dad has good characteristics, and their marriage is good, but it's hard. And so my mom is always speaking to what you can do that you can control.
- [57:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [57:42]
A
You cannot control your husband's behavior. You can pray like crazy for change. And the Lord often honors that with prompting that in him. But even if you don't see change this side of heaven in him, you will see it in you as you are faithful to ask the Lord to use this crucible of feeling unloved, of feeling unsupported, of feeling unrespected or whatever. All it is.
- [58:08]
B
Yep.
- [58:08]
A
To drive yourself to the foot of the cross. And it sounds so trite. People like, what does that. What does that actually mean? That means sometimes, instead of immediately going to your girlfriends and telling them everything that he did, either journaling or praying in the shower, Lord, my feelings are really hurt. Please help me to know whether I should say something to him. Please help me to know whether I should just keep going. Please help me to know if there is a practical decision to be made here. The Bible tells us in James that when we ask for wisdom, the Lord gives it freely and without reproach. Meaning he's not like, really, you're here again. You need another cup of sugar? You know, he's gracious to give us what we need. It's just sometimes, like I was saying earlier, we don't recognize it as what we need because we don't see the actual circumstance change yet.
- [59:01]
B
Yet.
- [59:01]
A
Elizabeth Elliott says the difference is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances.
- [59:07]
B
Right.
- [59:08]
A
That's A hard pill to swallow if your circumstances are really difficult.
- [59:11]
B
Right.
- [59:12]
A
But it doesn't change the principle.
- [59:14]
B
Do you ever have moms asking you like, how do I get my husband to just want to parent?
- [59:19]
A
Yeah. Oh, every day. Yes. And you can't any more than a husband could get his wife to want to parent. Because we have to acknowledge it's not just the dads that are tapped out sometimes times. And there are plenty of dads out there that are probably wishing that their wives would get off the Internet and parent. Just like we wish our husbands would get off their phones and parent. Yeah, I think it's a two way street.
- [59:41]
B
Totally.
- [59:42]
A
There is a message that women do all the work in parenting and if you have a traditional breakdown where the husband is the provider and goes to work outside the home for eight, nine hours of the day, depending on his commute and the woman is at home, that's going to be somewhat true. I mean, or a lot lot true. And I don't want to belittle that. But at the same time, there are ways, just like you were asking about earlier, like, how do you stay focused, how do you stay engaged, how do you stay intentional? There are plenty of ways to tap out throughout our day as moms as well. So I think one good question would be, am I holding myself to the same standards that I would like to see from him?
- [60:17]
B
Yeah.
- [60:17]
A
In other words, do I want him to step up, but I'm not stepping up. Two, if we are indeed genuinely feeling like, hey, no, I am being faithful and invested here. I would just like a partner, pray like crazy and consistently and specifically and not like you're rubbing the lamp of a genie. But the Bible tells us, I mean, it gives the example of a parable of the unjust judge who kept denying a widow her just claim and she just kept coming back until he got tired of it. But the point is not that God is an unjust judge. It's like if the unjust judge got tired, how much more will our Father in heaven who loves us give us? Hope, a way to move forward. We just have to recognize them sometimes for what they are. It may be a very small thing. I led Bible reading in our home for years before my husband felt comfortable to do it. I didn't always not nag, but I tried for the most part to keep my mouth shut, pray about it. And he did eventually become convicted. That that was his role and he's been doing it for years now. But it took years of praying for that to change.
- [61:20]
B
How do you Find time to nurture your own spiritual life personally amidst the chaos and demands of a large family.
- [61:27]
A
So I think there's kind of this misconception that unless you have a personal quiet time that looks like some sort of Instagram worthy, like real with colored pencils and pens and candles and you know, your Bible cover has like a pretty drawing on it or something that you can't do quote unquote Bible reading. Right. I think it can be pretty messy. I think it can be with a cold cup of coffee and a toddler on your lap crawling all over you and it could be reading aloud to your kids. We do a lot of family Bible reading and I think for some reason people don't think it counts unless it's personal study. I know so much of what I do about God's word because one, my parents read to me when I was younger and I read to my kids. So a whole lot of what I have internalized was not in some prayer closet by myself in dim light with nobody bothering me. It was 100% talking it through with my kids or my husband or with my parents.
- [62:24]
B
I think that I'm also somebody that benefits from group talking it through.
- [62:28]
A
Yeah.
- [62:29]
B
You know, having someone to bounce off of and like kind of having like an intense heart to heart and discussion and scripture reading.
- [62:34]
A
That's one thing that my husband does a really good job of is he very much so asks comprehension questions of different age levels. So he'll ask the five year old, you know, if he understood the part that he could understand. And then the eight year old like, but what does that actually mean in this case? And then the 17 year olds give an example of that. And I it helps them to stay engaged, but it also helps them to actually think through what's happening there as opposed to, we checked Bible reading off our list today.
- [62:59]
B
What do you say to the mom who is struggling and going, is this really worth it?
- [63:03]
A
I mean I have the, the obvious book title emphatic answer, but that's not super helpful for someone that's in the nitty gritty trenches just to say, oh yeah it is know. Didn't you know this? You bet your stretch marks. It makes for a good book title, but it doesn't necessarily help someone in their particulars.
- [63:18]
B
Yeah, like maybe she's thinking, I don't know that I was cut out for motherhood. Like I feel like I don't have the gene or the personality. Like I don't love playing with my kids. I get DMS about that all the time. Like, I don't enjoy playing with my kids. I do. My kids. Yeah. And so they think like I'm a bad mom, I'm not cut out for this. I wasn't made to do this because I don't like to go out and literally play pretend.
- [63:39]
A
Well, I'll address that in just a second. But let me answer your, your first question about like, what if you have gotten to the point where you feel like, what is this even worth it? Is this even working? If your hope is in it being worth it because your kids get whatever it is that you're working on with them quickly, then it will often feel like it's not worth it because a lot of times those are years long processes and when you're in the midst of them, it feels like it will never end. And then it doesn't feel worth it because you're not reaching the result, you're not getting the reward. Right. And we love immediate feedback. It's not just moms. Humans. Humans love immediate feedback. And so you've got a mom that's maybe four years into motherhood, let's say she has three kids under four. I was there and I know lots of moms who've been there. That is not the time to ask yourself if motherhood is worth it. It you will not be able to fully answer that question from a results perspective at all. However, when you zoom out and say not when will I get my results so that I know that this is working, but instead what has this wrought in me? You often find yourself recognizing things that have changed, that have grown, that have shifted in a good way, or if they've shifted in a negative way, you can say like there's an opportunity to work on something as opposed to, well, motherhood just made me worse. Obviously, you know, like it's going downhill. Cuz I want since I have these kids, you can say that, but that's not completely honest. Most of the things in our lives, when we recognize an aspect where we're struggling, we don't go well. I mean, exercise made me more tired today, so it must not have worked. You know, instead you say, okay, I'm tired today, but I'm going to keep going for a couple more weeks and see how it goes. By a couple more weeks you have some more energy and you're like, oh, this is kind of awesome. So that's a pretty quick turnaround. But I think it's worth it to obey God regardless of whether we produce results in our kids. Because ultimately I'm only responsible for one vertical relationship between me and the Lord. I am responsible to faithfully invest in the children that he's given me to steward. But I can't guarantee anything for them that's between them and Lord. Ultimately, I am responsible to stay, stand alone without my husband or my children before my Savior one day and hear him say, lord willing, well done, good and faithful servant. So if you can focus on that, I'm doing this for Lord, for the Lord, not for men. The Bible talks about it all the time. Doing it for the Lord, not for men. It means not for humans. That includes for your children. We do it for them, but not necessarily because of them. We do it because God has called.
- [66:17]
B
Us to what's your advice for the mom who says I hate playing with my kids?
- [66:21]
A
You don't have to play with your kids in the get down on the floor and play Legos with them very often or necessarily ever to be a good mom. And that may be a controversial statement. Like I said, you'll probably put that one on the Sizzler too. I'm taking them all away. And all the comments will go, she's a terrible mom. Here's what I mean by that. So my mom had two kids. We're four years apart. We're a boy and a girl. Girl. We look like the perfect American family. My mom would have happily had many more and she just could not. I cannot conjure one single memory of my mom getting down on the floor and playing with me.
- [67:03]
B
Yeah, my mom really didn't either.
- [67:05]
A
And yet I have zero doubt that my mom was devoted to me, loved me, adored me, thought that I hung the moon. She did other things with me. She would take me out on errands with her and let me push the cart or pick the apples. She would bring me beside her and let me stir the spaghetti sauce and show me how she made it. She would show me how to sew dolls, doll clothes. She would get my opinion on something that she was thinking about doing. She would have a conversation with me. She would take me to when I was a teenager. We would go thrifting together and go to Subway and split a Subway sub like and have Pepsi. That was like our thing. I know, the horror. But like, I have such fond memories of all of these things and it never no point in my childhood with one sibling considerably older than I am, did I ever think my mother is neglecting me. Woe is me. She never plays with me on the floor with these little characters or whatever.
- [67:57]
B
I love putting that in that perspective. Cuz yeah, my mom is the same. I, I really, I don't have any memories of my mom, like playing Barbies with me or anything, but a hundred, you know, thousand memories of little things, like exactly what you're talking about. Her teaching me to cook or one of my birthdays, you know, creating a picnic in our backyard amongst daffodil for my eighth birthday or. Yeah. Running different errands or her taking us to different museums or play dates or whatever.
- [68:24]
A
Well, and it's, it's not that. I mean, I'm always encouraging moms to kind of push themselves past that point of inconvenience where it's like, are you saying no because you really don't have time, or are you saying no because you just don't enjoy this and don't want to? I, I have gotten on the floor and played with my kids and my mom probably did too. It just wasn't the main way we interacted, so it didn't stick in my brain. And I had a best friend that I did most of the play on the floor with the Legos and the dolls thing with, so. So that's who I remember as being my partner in crime for that. So I'm sure she did. But I think it comes down to that conviction thing. Like if you find yourself with a child who would love nothing more, it would just thrill their souls if mama would get on the floor with them and you're just like, ick. But you could, like, you have the freedom to do that and you're just like, ick. I'm not gonna. I think that would be a great opportunity to get down on the floor and play.
- [69:16]
B
Yeah.
- [69:17]
A
I just don't think that if you don't regularly that that's some sort of automatic button for bad mom.
- [69:22]
B
If you could sit across from a 26 year old mom who's a mom for the first time, what would you say to her?
- [69:28]
A
Take a deep breath, Shake your shoulders out. Recognize that you have great responsibility and privilege here, but you're not ultimately the one in control. Go to God's word first. Every single time. Time. Regardless of what the quote unquote experts say. Tune out the voices of culture that leave you feeling confused and stressed and like you need to do more and more and more in your motherhood. Pare it down to the basics. Love God, Love your neighbor, your closest neighbors, if you're married and have children, are your husband and your children and they are your first ministry. And as time goes on, the Lord may reveal ways that you can can you know, without abandoning your family, reach out to the community at large or bring them into your home and be hospitable. But especially right now, as a first time mom, do the basics and do them well to the glory of God. It's going to be okay.
- [70:26]
B
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would it be?
- [70:32]
A
It would be reading God's Word. We have a biblically illiterate society who is running around flailing, constantly looking for little T truth when big T truth is staring in the face. And in Western culture, we have it at our fingertips in every translation possible, every store you could walk into. And it is like we are being, you know, totally dehydrated, dying of thirst in the desert, somebody's holding out the water of life and we're like, like pass. I, you know, I need to find a vending machine somewhere. It's so sad.
- [71:09]
B
Remind everybody about the name of the book.
- [71:11]
A
You bet your stretch marks. And the the subtitle is I'll Read it. Finding Beauty and Worth in the Ways Motherhood Marks Our Bodies and Souls.
- [71:19]
B
And who is this book really?
- [71:20]
A
For any mom? It is literally for the mom who's just getting started and desperate for some direction and feeling like she doesn't have a clue what she's doing. And it's very much so for the mom that's been doing this for a very long time or maybe has kids out of the house and is facing that was it worth it? Question. And for the mom, very much so that wants to leave a legacy instead of just focus on today.
- [71:45]
B
What is the name of your Instagram handle and also your podcast?
- [71:49]
A
I Make it Easy. So Instagram handle is msformama. It's M is for Mama and the podcast is also Ms. For Mama.
- [71:56]
B
Abby, thanks for coming on Culture Apothecary.
- [71:58]
A
Thanks for having me, Alex.
- [72:03]
B
I know that Abby is one of your favorites. Don't forget to listen to my other episode with her from a few years ago on gentle parenting and why it is not Biblical. Please leave a five star review and tell others why they should be listening to Culture Apothecary. Tell them a labubu will come to get them when they're sleeping if they don't. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture. Twice a week new guests bring their own unique remedy. New episodes every Monday and Thursday at 6pm Pacific and 9pm Eastern. Subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube and follow me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark. You can also find the show there and extra content at Culture Apothecary. I'm Alex Clark, and thank you for listening to Culture Apothecary.