Podcast Summary: The Truth About Coffee

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Hosts: Alex Clark (A) with Guests Patrick Sullivan Jr. (B) & Ashley Laro Sullivan (C)
Date: February 7, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Culture Apothecary dives into the little-known health truths (and controversies) behind coffee, the clean food movement, and the journey of opening Firefly Organic Coffee Shop and Market in Scottsdale, Arizona. Alex Clark sits down with Patrick and Ashley Sullivan, executive producers of the new documentary Breaking Big Food (featuring Alex herself), to discuss how Big Food has impacted American health, why the mold problem in coffee is so serious, and where to eat clean in the Phoenix area.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Raw Milk Latte Controversy

• Issue: Firefly almost got shut down for serving raw milk lattes, only to discover Arizona law prohibits raw milk in prepared drinks, even though selling cartons is legal ([01:37]).
  • Ashley explains: “We found out that someone had written a letter to the state … and it was illegal in the state of Arizona to serve raw milk. We didn't know that.” ([01:37])
  • On tribal land, the regulations differed, but ultimately customers had to DIY their raw milk lattes: “We put everything but the milk, give you the cup, and you kind of DIY and pour your own raw milk in, which people kind of like that anyway.” ([03:34])

Personal Health Journeys Fueling a Mission

• Patrick’s Story: Diagnosed with thyroid cancer in 2014, leading to a major lifestyle reevaluation:
  • “There is, like, no worse word, no more stress than hearing the you have cancer … I was eating mostly healthy, so we thought.” ([04:10]–[05:49])
  • Realization: Believed to be healthy, but later discovered critical knowledge gaps, especially in reading nutrition labels and understanding the danger of seed oils ([06:12]).

The Mold & Toxins Problem with Coffee

• Mold Issues: Nearly all conventional coffee has problematic levels of mold and mycotoxins, which are not eliminated by roasting ([08:00]).

  • Ashley: “Coffee is one of the biggest culprits of mold… four different types of mold came up [in toxin tests].” ([08:05])
  • Patrick: “Darker the roast, the more likely mold was in the beans originally because you have to burn it longer to kill off the mold.” ([13:20])

• "Most toxic coffee brand?"

  • Alex asks directly ([00:13], [08:55]), and Patrick pointedly replies:
    • Patrick: “Who sells the most coffee?” ([00:15], [08:57])
    • Context is clear: Starbucks heavily implied.

• Organic Coffee Realities:

  • Only ~2% of American coffee is certified organic; only ~1% is “specialty,” meaning truly high-quality and clean ([14:41]).
  • Patrick: “Single origin probably is better, but it is also a buzzword... Ours technically comes from the same farm.” ([14:08])

Clean Food Movement & Opening Firefly

• Commitments at Firefly:

  • Only organic milk, organic coffee, organic syrups.
  • Seed oils reduced everywhere except a compromise on one oat milk brand due to customer preference ([10:51]).
  • Patrick’s crusade: “I actively try to talk people out of [oat] milk … are you sure you can't milk an oat?” ([11:11])

• Testing Coffee & Supplements:

  • Firefly uses third-party testing for their coffee, similar to their supplement company.
  • Ashley: “For us, we were lucky because it's already part of our SOP for our supplements.” ([12:36])

Documentary: Breaking Big Food

• Inspiration: Sparked by the work of brothers Cali & Dr. Casey Means and their book Good Energy ([07:13], [16:23]).
• Key revelation:
  • “In 1985, Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, bought Kraft Foods for $13 billion ... By the early 1990s, Big Tobacco controlled about 40% of the food supply in America.” ([16:23])
• Response: The documentary aims to inspire, not just indict — focusing on local heroes fixing food from the ground up ([18:05]).

Phoenix Area Clean Food Guide

The Sullivans & Alex list their top clean food spots:

• Restaurants: Good Living Greens, Amelia’s (especially for Rice Krispie treats and burgers fried in tallow), The Ends (fine dining, tallow only), Tarbell’s, Georgia Gather, Sweetgreen, True Food Kitchen, Big Sexy Burger, Matt’s Big Breakfast, Aubergine Kitchen.
• Markets: Inspire Farms in Mesa (“fabulous shop”), Agritopia Farms in Gilbert with its farm box subscription and community gardens ([23:02]–[23:55]).
• Specialty Items: Blessed Oven’s seed oil free donuts (at Firefly Saturdays); Ethel Lane’s organic sourdough bread and cinnamon rolls ([15:45], [15:58]).
  • “They're sourdough cinnamon rolls, guys. They're things. You're going to love it.” – Alex ([16:04])

Why Culture Apothecary Featured in the Film

• Patrick recounts how Alex’s fiery testimony in the state senate inspired her inclusion in the documentary:
  • “Everything that you said, I was like fist pumping in the air of like. Yes. And you are really a voice for these millennial moms … The tiger mom energy is strong in you.” ([24:34])

The Deeper Mission

• Alex shares her father's story and the personal motivation behind her advocacy work:
  • “My dad struggled with an addiction to ultra processed food… It fuels my mission of why it is so important ... because I couldn't save my dad. So it's important to me to try to save as many other people that I can.” ([25:46])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The darker the roast, the more likely mold was in the beans.” — Patrick ([00:03], [13:20])
• “Who sells the most coffee?” — Patrick on most toxic coffee brand ([00:15], [08:57])
• “For us, we were lucky because it's already part of our SOP for our supplements. So we put our coffee through the same testing essentially.” — Ashley ([12:36])
• “We have the ability to make better choices.” — Ashley’s remedy for a sick culture ([27:58])
• “Everything begins with mindset, including for me, my own cancer journey … The power is within you.” — Patrick ([28:12])
• “I couldn't save my dad. So it's important to me to try to save as many other people that I can.” — Alex ([25:46])

Key Timestamps

• 00:03 – “Darker the roast, the more likely mold was in the beans.”
• 01:37–03:34 – Firefly's raw milk controversy and workaround
• 04:10–06:41 – Patrick’s cancer journey and dietary wake-up call
• 08:05 – The mold problem in conventional coffee
• 10:51–11:11 – Oat milk debate and seed oils
• 13:20 – How roast level relates to mold in coffee
• 14:41 – Only ~2% of US coffee is organic
• 16:23 – Big Tobacco’s takeover of American food
• 18:05 – Documentary purpose and positive focus
• 19:46–23:55 – Detailed listing of Phoenix-area clean food spots and markets
• 24:34 – Alex’s inclusion in the documentary and her advocacy roots
• 25:46 – Alex’s personal family story with processed food
• 27:58–28:52 – The Sullivans’ “remedies” to heal culture
• 29:02 – Where to find Firefly and Breaking Big Food

Social & Documentary Links

• Watch Breaking Big Food: Apple TV, Amazon Prime ([26:50])
• Firefly Organic Coffee Shop & Market: Scottsdale, AZ ([27:06])
• Instagram: @fireflycoffeeshop, @BreakingBigFood, @CultureApothecary, @RealAlexClark ([28:57])

Closing Thoughts

This episode pulls back the curtain on the health hazards hidden in everyday coffee, exposes the intersection of Big Food and Big Tobacco, and shines a spotlight on Arizona’s thriving clean food community. Patrick and Ashley’s journey from health scare to health advocates is both practical and inspiring, giving listeners actionable information and hope for reclaiming control over what they eat — and drink.

“We are not powerless. The power is within you to set your mind towards a healthy future.”
— Ashley & Patrick ([27:58], [28:12])