A (3:05)

There we go. And now you can get Jack Daniels lattes. No, I'm kidding. That's amazing. You know, so that just tells me we need to change the laws, because in California, in Los Angeles, there's several raw milk coffee shops, I believe.

C (3:18)

Yes, I've seen that.

A (3:19)

So it's legal to buy raw milk in store in the state of Arizona, but we need to change the law so that we can also serve raw milk in. In drinks and stuff, don't we?

C (3:28)

Amen. Yes. Okay.

A (3:29)

Okay.

B (3:29)

It'd be great.

A (3:30)

I'd like to take on that challenge. I think we could do.

C (3:33)

Could you handle that for us?

A (3:33)

Yeah.

C (3:34)

In the meantime, you can order a naked latte at Firefly, where we put everything but the milk, give you the cup, and you kind of DIY and pour your own raw milk in, which people kind of like that.

A (3:43)

Anyway, my best friend lives in Kentucky, and she's got her. She's got a favorite coffee shop that she loves to go to, and they definitely don't have raw milk in stores in Kentucky yet. And so she does that. She goes to the coffee shop, she brings from home her raw milk, and they make it all up, and then she pours her own milk in, and then she goes about her day running errands or whatever. So there's a lot of people across America, I think, that are doing that. What is Gerald's health journey that really led you to jump into this clean food movement in Arizona?

B (4:10)

Well, in 2014, I felt a lump in my throat, and come to find out, about a month later, it was cancer. I had thyroid cancer in 2014. And there is, like, no worse word, no more stress than hearing the you have cancer. You know, we got first opinion, second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion. Nobody could really say how it got there, but they were willing to cut it out and say, okay, well, you'll just take thyroid medication for the rest of your life. And quite frankly, I kind of buried that. It was so stressful for Ashley and I. I was, what, late 30s? And like, oh, my gosh, am I going to die? Am I going to leave her a widow? And so we decided, okay, we're going to get the thyroidectomy, the surgery to cut it out. And like I said, I kind of buried that until when we started to work on the documentary. The director was interviewing us, and he asked, like, why are you guys driven to this? Why do you want to make this documentary? And the first thing that I brought up was sort of this, like, well, you know, we're in the health and wellness industry, and we absolutely believe that nutrition plays a factor in how your life goes and how you feel. But he goes, yeah, I'm not really buying that. Like, why do you, Patrick, want to make this? And it was almost like I remembered, oh, yeah, I'm a cancer survivor. I kind of buried that. And quite frankly, kind of buried it out of shame because I shouldn't have gotten cancer. You know, I was eating mostly healthy, so we thought.

C (5:48)

Right.

B (5:49)

I was taking care of myself, so we thought. And I still got cancer.

A (5:53)

So now, knowing everything you guys know now, do you feel like you were truly at your healthiest or no?

B (6:00)

No.

A (6:00)

Explain that, because I think a lot of Americans think that way. They're like, I am healthy. You know, I go out, I go for a walk, and. And I think I eat pretty healthy. So what were you doing then? And how is that different than what you're doing now?

C (6:12)

I do most of the shopping for the family, and I always thought of myself as a healthy shopper, right. I would buy hummus. I would buy, you know, healthy salad dressings. So I thought. But I had no idea how to read a nutritional label, and I didn't know what some of these things mean. Fact. I had no idea about seed oils and the inflammatory effects of them. So even these quote unquote health foods that we were eating and consuming, come to find out, were not pro health at all.

A (6:41)

So then, now you guys are all on board?

C (6:43)

Yes.

B (6:44)

Yeah.

A (6:45)

And it's quite different, big time.

B (6:47)

We've learned a lot, and through doing.

C (6:49)

This documentary, we've learned even more, and I would say gotten even more particular about what we choose to put in our bodies. And it's made all the difference. Like, I can really feel a difference from how I even ate a year ago to how I eat now.

A (7:04)

What came first? This idea to create an organic coffee shop or make a documentary on big food.

C (7:08)

The documentary came first.

A (7:10)

It did, really. Yeah, I really thought the coffee shop did.

B (7:13)

No, it was close to. At the same time, we were inspired after seeing Cali Means Talk in summer, April or May of 2024, and we feel like, oh, my gosh, like, this guy put together the pieces of the puzzle for how we got here over the last 40 years in such a clean and coherent way. And it's so Persuasive. It's just like, well, of course this is how we got here. And we really felt, I think, inspired to try to help Callie and his sister, Dr. Casey means. They wrote a book together called Good Energy about the same subject. We felt like, is there a way that we could help amplify this message and really inspire American.

A (8:00)

What do you think is the problem with 98% of coffee consumed by Americans?

C (8:05)

Mold. Mold, yeah. Patrick has some stats on this, but essentially coffee is one of the biggest culprits of mold. As a matter of fact, around the time we started the documentary, I had been doing a series of health tests for myself. I did a toxin test to see what kind of toxins I might be detoxing from or have in my system. And four different types of mold came up. And they were food derived sources, so likely not environmental. And I thought, that is so weird because I don't even eat blue cheese. Like, I don't eat moldy food. How the heck could this be happening? And then as I dove into the research a little bit more, realizing that the coffee is a big culprit, I started to think, oh, I only drink a few cups a day. Could that possibly be affecting me? So that's what sent us down the coffee rabbit hole of like, we've got to figure out how to get clean coffee in our lives.

A (8:55)

Who do you think is the most toxic coffee brand?

B (8:57)

Who sells the most coffee?

A (9:00)

Okay, that's a great answer. Do you think that Starbucks could ever be truly organic? Like, could they do it? Could they totally switch over? Is it possible?

B (9:09)

There's not enough farms growing coffee organically, so most coffee is grown around the equator. They say that coffee stemmed came out of Ethiopia. A lot of it is grown in Brazil. The coffee that we get is specialty coffee means it, meaning it grades at an 85 or higher on the scale. It's grown at a small family farm in Honduras, which is grown at high elevation. The problem with most coffee is that when it's washed, so it's this green bean, it's picked and it's washed. It's stored in humid conditions around the equator. And those humid conditions can often create essentially a great environment for mold to grow in. So roasting can often kill off most of the mold, but it doesn't kill off the mycotoxin. And the mycotoxin is really the problem.

A (10:04)

Is there anything that is conventional in the coffee industry that you guys refuse.

C (10:09)

To serve traditional syrups with all the additives and chemicals in them? Like, we Use organic syrups with cane sugar. Organic milk, like that was one of my biggest things. I had this. We had this afternoon latte habit because we work from home a lot of times and we like to get out of the house and take a little break. So we would go get a latte every day. And I couldn't find anywhere in this town that had organic milk and organic coffee that I could feel good about that. So I just kind of had this little guilt in the back of my mind. And that was another reason we're like, we have to open something. Like, we have got to provide this as a resource to our community. Because if nothing else for us.

A (10:44)

Do you guys serve oat milk?

C (10:46)

We do.

A (10:47)

And what do you do about seed oils and oat milk? Because most of oat milk is filled with seed oils.

C (10:51)

Yes, I agree with that. We do have. The oat milk we have is organic. And that is the, the only product in our entire shop that has a seed oil. It has sunflower oil in it. And it's only because the customers basically have said, this is the best one, it tastes the best, and that's what they want.

A (11:07)

So if you're using oat milk, you are, you are choosing that.

B (11:11)

I actively try to talk people out of milk. If I'm working the register, I'm like, hey, organic whole milk is our standard. Would you like that? And they're like, oh, I'll just have oat milk. I'm like, are you sure you can't milk an oat?

A (11:24)

Listen, Bobby Kennedy is all over, right Washington talking about the benefits of whole milk. And oat milk, I think is one of those things that a lot of Americans are consuming on a day to day basis that they think is healthier. That is not at all. So if we can get you off the oat milk train, I know Patrick and Ashley are happy to help you do it. At least here in the Valley. What do coffee shops not want customers to know about their beans?

B (11:49)

As we began to work on pre production for the documentary, this is when we were learning more about coffee and the mold problem. And we realized, okay, there's like a real challenge in testing coffee. Like we Jigsaw Health, the company that we own, we test our supplements all the time. It's just part of the par for the course. So, you know, we use third party labs. They test for heavy metals and pesticides, and they test to make sure that what's on the label is in the bottle and nothing else. And we thought, well, why don't we do this for coffee. So thus began our search to try to find a registered organic coffee that would also pass a third party test and was something that we liked to drink.

C (12:36)

Right. And I think a lot of coffee shops focus a lot on the flavor and the flavor profiles, which is amazing. But it is, it's added expense to get this third party testing and a lot of places don't really know even where to start. Like, how am I going to get this third party tested? For us, we were lucky because it's already part of our SOP for our supplements. So it was like, okay, we're going to put our coffee through the same testing essentially.

A (12:58)

How can you tell just by taste if coffee was grown with chemicals?

C (13:02)

I don't know if I can tell that there are chemicals in other coffee, but I, there is something about my system when I drink certain coffees at a restaurant or a different cafe that I'm just kind of like, I just don't really want to drink this for some reason.

A (13:17)

Yeah, your intuition is telling you something is not right.

B (13:20)

I think that the darker the roast, the more likely mold was in the beans originally because you have to burn it longer to kill off the mold. So when I drink a Starbucks, I feel like it is super burnt and bitter. When I drink a Firefly, I'm tasting like nature. There's like a. There's a chocolate and a nuance and it's like not strong. So, in fact, I would say the biggest complaint, we don't get many complaints, but the biggest complaint that we would get on Firefly coffee is like, it doesn't seem strong enough. Well, it's a medium roast by design. Dark roast, to me is like, we were just trying to kill the mold.

A (14:04)

Sorry, is single origin actually better or is that just a buzzword?

B (14:08)

Single origin probably is better, but it is also a buzzword. It basically means it is all from same country. Ours technically comes from the same farm. So single origin really is this single origin family farm up in Honduras that our roaster, who's been. They've been working with them for like 30 years. So when we found this roaster, they were like, it's single origin at a registered organic farm in Honduras. And we loved the taste.

C (14:36)

And what percentage of coffee in America is actually registered organic?

B (14:41)

About 2%. And only about 1% of the coffee sold in America is registered organic specialty coffee. Meaning it's above an 85. It scores above 85 points.

A (14:54)

Well, it sounds to me if somebody's interested in getting into the clean food industry, the coffee industry would be a smart place to go. We need a lot of help.

C (15:01)

We do. And the thing is people are drinking coffee once, twice, three times a day. Yeah, it is a highly consumed thing. So I mean, we're all doing our best to upgrade our pantries and our refrigerators at home and eat clean food, but we're ignoring the coffee.

A (15:17)

You guys are not only selling coffee at Firefly. What other things do you have in your market?

C (15:21)

We have raw milk, we have Arizona grass raised beef that you can buy. We have farm fresh eggs. Things that you can get there that you can't find at your grocery store. A lot of local purveyors that make just the most amazing honey. Arizona churn culture butter. That's organic grass fed butter in glass jars. Anything we can find like that.

A (15:44)

And bread.

C (15:45)

And sourdough bread. Hello, today. Yes, that's right.

B (15:48)

Ethel Lane, shout out to Fountain Hills baker Amber and Ethel Lane. This organic sourdough bread. And those. Have you, Alex, have you had one of the cinnamon rolls?

A (15:58)

Oh yeah, I always get that whenever I come in.

B (16:03)

Yes, those are insane.

A (16:04)

They're sourdough cinnamon rolls, guys. They' things. You're going to love it. They also sell masa chips in there. So let's talk about your documentary, Breaking Big Food, which features Cali Means and myself and a bunch of other pioneers in the clean food movement in Arizona. Why was now the right time for documentary on big food?

B (16:23)

I think I would credit Cali and his sister, Dr. Casey means for just laying out how we got here, the groundwork of how we got here. And, and for me it was just incredibly like, duh. You know, the most crazy thing that we learned when filming this documentary was that in 1985, Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, bought Kraft Foods for $13 billion. That same year, 1985, R.J. reynolds, the maker of Camel cigarettes, bought Nabisco for about $5 billion. By the early 1990s, Big Tobacco controlled about 40% of the food supply in America. What the heck did we expect would happen 30 years later?

A (17:16)

What does this documentary exposer reveal?

B (17:18)

How we got here. The full title is Breaking Big how the American Food System Went Rotten and How it's Being Revived. When we were working on pre production, we kind of felt like, is this investigative journalism? Is this just going to be a hit piece on big food? And Ashley and I felt like we wanted to bring some form of inspiration to Americans. We felt like there was a number of like, here's why it's bad. But we wanted to show that it can be fixed. That we as communities around America can work together, from producers to markets to consumers, to really fix the problem from the ground up.

A (18:05)

What has been the response locally to the documentary? Like our businesses that are featured telling you guys, oh my gosh, we're seeing more people come in because they've watched the documentary. Like, what are people saying? Because you guys spotlight all of the, or at least a lot of the organic or seed oil free, you know, clean food restaurants and markets around the valley.

C (18:24)

Yes. They have all reported back that they have people coming in saying, oh my gosh, we traveled, you know, like Good Living Greens in Fountain Hills, Arizona. It's this little suburb, was small town and they were so excited because they have had people like traveling whenever they were in Arizona. Like, we've got to make it to Fountain Hills to go to Good Living Greens. I saw you in the documentary. Amelia is one of our favorite restaurants. They do it right and they've had a lot of people come in and say that they heard about them from the documentary. So it is help helping our local purveyors, which is so rewarding. That's exactly what we wanted to see happen. We wanted to shine a light on the people that we're doing it right.

A (19:02)

Okay. So speaking of that, let's just. I need your all's help with something. I am not kidding you. And you can ask my social media girl. Every single day I get hundreds of dms. Alex. I'm traveling to Arizona for work. Alex. I'm going to be there on a bachelorette party. My family's on a vacation. Can you give me your list of all the places that are clean and that I should eat or check out? I can't keep up with it. So this episode is going to serve a very special purpose. I will be blasting this episode out from now until the end of time. I mean, we'll eventually have to, I guess, redo because I'm sure new stuff will pop up, God willing. But for a while, I'm going to use this episode as here's my list. So I need you guys to help me tell them all of the cool, clean food stores, markets, shops, restaurants that people should go to.

C (19:46)

Good Living Greens. We talked about Amelia's restaurant. We talked about Obsessed, by the way.

A (19:50)

Amelia's Rice Krispie Treat. I want to be buried alive in them. It is my absolute favorite bakery item in probably the entire state of Arizona. So I just want to say that.

C (20:01)

I'll always make sure we have those in stock for you at Firefly as well.

B (20:04)

Before you move from Amelia's, when you go there, be sure to get the burger. The burger is using Arizona grass raised beef and they mix in a little bit of bacon to it. And the way that they make it is just absolutely fantastic. And the fries are fried in tallow. Their better burger is absolutely fantastic. We better legit eat there probably once to three times a week. We just had breakfast there yesterday.

A (20:29)

They probably also have the best rotisserie chicken in the city.

B (20:32)

Oh, my gosh.

A (20:32)

They do.

B (20:33)

Yeah, they do.

A (20:34)

Organic.

C (20:35)

They're crushing it. If you want something a little bit more high end fine dining, the Ends restaurant in Old Town Scottsdale, they do everything in Tallow. They're seed oil free.

A (20:44)

Fun fact about the Ends. And Tommy, the owner is a really good friend of mine. In this show, the Ends is like. It's like the Craigs of LA to the Maha movement in Phoenix. So anybody who is a celebrity or famous in the Maha movement, when they come to town, that's where they're eating. So if you want to do like a celebrity sighting for like all the famous podcasters you like and stuff, the Ends is where you go.

C (21:04)

Well, yes. Tarbell's is another one that we love.

A (21:08)

Haven't been there yet.

C (21:09)

Yes. And they use tallow. Their fries are amazing. They did switch from seed oils quite a while ago, so they're definitely on the leading edge of the movement. Where else do we go to?

A (21:20)

Georgian Gather.

C (21:21)

Georgian Gather.

A (21:22)

Except maybe dressings like they're all. They're basically otherwise exclusively seed oil free in Chandler.

C (21:27)

Sweet greens.

A (21:28)

Yeah, yeah. We have sweet green. Finally. We didn't before. We're. We're the founding city of True Food Kitchen.

C (21:34)

Yes.

A (21:34)

Now, those are not local, but still clean food options. Brand new place. Big Sexy Burger. Sexy Burger.

C (21:43)

It's so good.

A (21:44)

I haven't been there. Yeah, it's great. Okay, so that I need to check out. Matt's big breakfast is seed oil free.

C (21:50)

And if you can find the Shake Up Superfoods truck.

A (21:54)

Yes, of course.

C (21:55)

Do that.

A (21:55)

Yes. Leslie, our friend Cali's wife, she has Shake Up Superfoods, which is incredible. And then who else am I? Oh, Aubergine Kitchen. Now that started in Utah, but that's here now.

C (22:08)

Yes.

A (22:08)

Is there anyone else?

C (22:09)

I don't know, but I have to name Drop blessed oven Seed oil Free Donuts.

B (22:13)

Oh, gosh.

C (22:14)

Yeah, we get those on Saturday mornings, most Saturday mornings at Firefly. And they are just this amazing couple. They just kind of mom and pop and they go to the farmers markets. They don't have an official shop or anything, so it's a little bit harder to find them. But you can usually find them at Firefly on Saturday mornings. And they're the only seed oil free donut that I know of. And they're delicious. This.

B (22:34)

Oh, what about the Italiano? Yeah, they're seed oil free.

C (22:37)

I did ask. They said that they fry their things in tallow and they only use olive oil. The Italiano On Shea and 92nd, I think it is. And it's delicious.

A (22:47)

I haven't been there either. This is a good list.

B (22:49)

Yes, it is a great list.

A (22:50)

Okay, and then what about stores? Because those are all restaurants to eat at. What about like little cool markets and things?

C (22:56)

I mean, beyond good living greens, I think we need more of that.

A (22:59)

What about. Isn't there something, something farm or something?

C (23:02)

Oh, Inspire Farms in Mesa. Thank you. In Inspire Farms in Mesa is a fabulous shop. They have, you know, your grass fed beef, your farm fresh eggs, raw milk, but they also have tons of fresh produce. It's very similar to a good living greens but maybe a little bit bigger. Definitely stop by there.

B (23:20)

Maybe Agrotopia. Agritopia in Gilbert.

C (23:24)

Agritopia Farms.

B (23:25)

Yeah, ag free.

C (23:26)

I mean it's an actual farm. And then they have Joe's Farm Grill. I'm not sure if it's seed oil free or not.

A (23:32)

Agritopia is a really interesting concept that we have here in Phoenix. So in the Gilbert area, which is a suburb of Phoenix, they've got this like, it's a community, you can buy a home and then within the community you have your own gardens and restaurants. And isn't there a school? Yeah, it's like, it's like literally like a, it's like a town neighborhood within a city. Yeah, that's all like supposed to be like self sustainable and stuff. It's really a neat concept that other cities should copy.

C (23:55)

It's adorable. Yes. And it gets families involved with like their gardening and they have the community gardens and all that. They actually have something called a farm box box that you can get a subscription to and you can pick up at various locations around the valley. So like every Wednesday, Firefly is a pickup location for them. So if you have a farm box, you can get whatever their fresh produce of the week is and just pick it up right there. And there you go. You're. You're farm shopping.

A (24:19)

Perfect. So listen. Everyone is listening to this. This is where your list is to find where to eat and go in Phoenix. Okay, so. So there you go. We've answered that question. Why did you feel like including culture apothecary was important to this documentary?

B (24:34)

Okay, so when we were doing pre production and figuring out like, who are the characters that we want to tell this story, I remember scrolling, trying to go to sleep and coming across your testimony, Alex, in the Senate in I think November, December 2024. And it's you on fire for like 10 minutes. Spit and fire maybe, as the kids would say. But everything that you said, I was like fist pumping in the air of like. Yes. And you are really a voice for these millennial moms. I know you're not a mom yet, but the tiger mom energy is strong in you and everything that you were saying. And we were like, we gotta get Alex onto the documentary. And we're like, how are we gonna do that? I sent the YouTube link out to our production team. I was like, you guys, I think we should really get Alex. And like a day or two later, just to show like that God was watching over this project, Callie emails and says, hey, I'm going to be speaking on a panel at amfest in late December. And the moderator of the panel was, it was me.

A (25:46)

Except that's when my dad died. And so then I missed it. And you know what, and I've spoken about this at length, but my dad struggled with an addiction to ultra processed food. It's what created all of the things that ended up, that ended up killing him. Type 2 diabetes, multiple heart attacks, heart disease, heart failure, glioblastoma, brain cancer. I mean, so it all is just, it fuels my mission of why it is so important. It was important for me to do this documentary. It was important for me to rebrand my show and talk about these issues because it's near and dear to my heart and I couldn't save my dad. So it's important to me to try to save as many other people that I can. So I, I have a real mission beyond myself of I do this and you guys have a real mission because you guys are helping, you know, spotlight and create the clean food community that you have to live in every day here in, in the state of Arizona. So, you know, hopefully other people kind of get ideas of what's happening here to, to mimic elsewhere around the country. Okay, where can people watch the film?

B (26:50)

It just came out breaking Big Food is now available on Apple TV and Amazon prime video and we're excited for people to watch it.

A (26:59)

So cool. That is so cool. And remind everyone, what's the name of your organic coffee shop and market and where is it?

C (27:06)

It is Firefly Organic Coffee Shop and Market. And it's in Scottsdale, basically the 101. And via Dave Ventura in the Talking Stick area, if you're local. But we've actually, it's kind of fun. We've had people that have seen the documentary that came in from Denver and other states that are like, oh, my gosh, I had to come to this shop. I saw it in the film. So we just love that we have.

B (27:26)

A ton of cute servatives hanging out there as well. Thanks to your post house.

A (27:30)

Oh, good. Well, I'm glad. I'm really happy to do that. I love it too. And. And my assistant Adeline. I'm always sending Adeline in there and. And she's very happy to run errands at Firefly for me because then she gets to get her coffee. So, you know, my whole team is like, can we stop at Firefly, please? When we come to your house to do things, I'm like, yep, okay. Now I ask every guest, you know, at the end of my show, if you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would it be? You guys can each answer.

C (27:58)

Mine would be to educate people to help them understand that they are not powerless. In a system that tries to make us feel powerless, we are not powerless. We have the ability to make better choices. Love that.

B (28:12)

I would second that and say that really everything begins with mindset, including for me, my own cancer journey I can think back to. My mindset was a wreck at that time. I believe now that I have effectively made my own cancer inside of my throat. And so I think if that's the case, if I really with my mind made that, then I can make sure I don't get it again for the rest of my life. So strongly encourage everyone to realize that the power is within you to set your mind towards a healthy future.

A (28:52)

What are the Instagrams for the coffee shop and the documentary Breaking Big Food.

B (28:57)

On Instagram and TikTok and Firefly Coffee on Instagram.

A (29:02)

Patrick and Ashley, thank you for Breaking Big Food. Watch it on Apple TV and Amazon Prime. And thank you for giving us great places to get coffee and food and everything else we need local in Arizona.

C (29:14)

Thank you for having us.

B (29:15)

Our pleasure. Thanks.

C (29:20)

Tag.

A (29:20)

Tag me in your stories watching Breaking Big Food. This was a special bonus episode, but we normally release new episodes twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. Wherever you get your podcasts, follow the show on Instagram. At Culture Apothecary or me at Real Alex Clark. Our mission is to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally and spiritually. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.