← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
The Ultimate Hashimoto's Episode | Dr. Izabella Wentz, PharmD
01:09:49
Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:00]
Alex Clark
I was the moodiest teenager. I was Avril Lavigne slamming my door. What's the connection there?
- [00:05]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
In the early stages of thyroid dysfunction, we're going to have symptoms like anxiety and depression and panic attacks seemingly out of nowhere. We are not lazy. We're not trying to make your life harder. A lot of the times our energy is so, so severely impacted by Hashimoto's that it is tough to get out of bed in the mornings. It's also an invisible illness. And so a lot of our friends and family members and loved ones might not be able to know how much effort it actually takes us to show up.
- [01:01]
Alex Clark
If you've ever felt tired, foggy, anxious, bloated, moody, or just off, and no one could tell you why, this woman today is about to rock your world. Dr. Isabella Wentz is the thyroid pharmacist and she's blowing the lid off what's really going on with women's health. She's a licensed pharmacist who ditched the band aid approach, founded thyroid pharmacist and rootcology, and became a New York Times best selling author by helping women actually heal. She's here to talk thyroid hormones, chronic fatigue, and why women are being dismissed and misdiagnosed every single day. This isn't about managing symptoms, it's about fixing the root problem. Watch this episode on Culture Apothecary on Spotify or real Alex Clark on YouTube. Leave a five star review right now. Before we start, if you never have, it really helps us become more discoverable on the podcast apps. Please welcome Dr. Isabella Wentz to Culture Apothecary. So do you have an autoimmune disease? Do you have Hashimoto's or why did this become like a hyper focus for you?
- [02:02]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
So in full disclosure, I was never interested in the thyroid gland during pharmacy school. I thought thyroid disorders were just kind of boring. There were just a few medications to treat them. And I thought this just sort of happened when you got older. It wasn't until I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's myself in my 20s and I realized that the treatments we had just really weren't helping enough. And I also wanted to find out how, as a person who was health conscious, how did I develop an autoimmune condition? And that's how I became a Hashimoto's expert slash human guinea pig was really just trying to get myself to feel better.
- [02:39]
Alex Clark
And so what did you find out when you were kind of going backwards and retracking where you'd been? What do you Think kind of led to you developing Hashimoto's.
- [02:47]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Gosh, it's been kind of a rabbit hole. But I would say probably where it initiated was exposure to Chernobyl. So I grew up in Poland on the Ukrainian border.
- [02:58]
Alex Clark
No way I could do a whole interview just on this.
- [03:01]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
It is so interesting because they have children who grew up closer to the Chernobyl disaster. Ukrainian children. Right. And Ukrainian children further away from it. You'd think they would be genetically similar. Right. But the rates of Hashimoto's and all kinds of thyroid disorders, including thyroid cancer, are so much higher in the children that had that significant environmental exposure.
- [03:24]
Alex Clark
So did you notice weird things about the environment you were growing up in? Like, was there still a lot of toxic waste stuff and things like that? Or you thought growing up, like, oh, this all happened a long time ago. It's all been cleaned up.
- [03:35]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I was three, so I don't think I was as aware of what was going on at the time. But when I got older, I. My mom is a pediatrician, and she was like, isabella, her thyroid gland is enlarged. Something is off about her. And she took me to an endocrinologist who tested my thyroid, and they said my labs were normal. We could get into, like, how. Unfortunately, the reference ranges are overly lax, so a lot of cases are missed, especially in children and young women. And then I developed, like, depression in my teens, and I was a very, very moody teenager, which is a red flag for thyroid disorders.
- [04:12]
Alex Clark
Wait, same.
- [04:13]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I.
- [04:13]
Alex Clark
Hold on a minute. I've never heard this before. And I was the moodiest teenager. I was Avril Lavigne slamming my door, you know, all that kind of stuff. I hate you. Whatever. I was the worst. But now I have an autoimmune wa. What's the connection there?
- [04:24]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Thyroid function, thyroid hormone impacts every single cell in our body. And one of the really, really big connections that people aren't really aware of is in the early stages of thyroid dysfunction, we're gonna have symptoms like anxiety and depression and panic attacks seemingly out of nowhere. Also, obsessive compulsive disorder has been really tied closely to thyroid dysfunction. It's really, really interesting because we know that our thyroid hormones manage our energy and our metabolism, and we think about that. What we don't think about is how impactful they are on our mood. But it makes a lot of sense, because when we have too much thyroid hormone, we might get too much of that anxious energy, and when we don't have enough of it, we might feel very sluggish, quote, unquote. Depressed in the early stages of thyroid dysfunction. Autoimmune thyroid disease. The thyroid gland is under attack, and so it basically dumps packets of thyroid hormone into the bloodstream. So you might have, like, anxiety, and then you might have depression, and you might have mood swings. And it's like essentially all that's happening is your thyroid hormones are fluctuating. And we all know that hormones can make us moody when they're fluctuating, right?
- [05:38]
Alex Clark
The amount of light bulbs that are going off for me right now, that is wild. And nobody's ever told me that when it comes to Hashimoto. So what are some signs that somebody could have an autoimmune disease besides that and not even know it?
- [05:50]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Some of the things that I would look out for if you are, again, if you're a moody teenager, if you're losing hair, if you're having weight gain, although not everybody with autoimmune thyroid disease is going to have weight gain. Some people might have excessive weight loss. We might have brain fog, we might have palpitations, we might have a loss of the upper third part of the eyebrows. Person might have trouble regulating their body temperature. So we typically think of the advanced hypothyroidism as you're cold all the time, but in the early stages, it might be you're hot all the time. So you are a teenager or a young woman that's wearing a short skirt on a cold, snowy winter day. And other symptoms might include just feeling depressed and feeling sluggish. Women in their 20s notoriously might have irritable bowel syndrome. They might have multiple miscarriages. And I feel like, you know, thyroid hormone impacts every single cell in the body. So the symptoms might feel very non specific. And people oftentimes will get a diagnosis of depression, anxiety, or it's all in your head, right? Or you have fork to mouth disease if you're, if you're gaining weight. But anybody with these symptoms deserves to get a full thyroid panel.
- [07:09]
Alex Clark
I was experiencing, I mean, yeah, extreme fatigue in the morning. Like, just very, very hard for me to get moving, get out of bed. Like, just felt like I had, like, you know, 200 extra PO pounds, like, weighing me down, trying to, like, get up and get moving, just never feeling well rested. Major joint pain. My nails were constantly breaking. Could not stop my nails breaking. Losing tons of hair. So much so that my hair colorist was like, hey, I think you have something going on with your thyroid because you're losing way more than you should in a hair wash. So thank God for her, because it was, she was the reason why I then like kind of asked about it and looked into it. Otherwise I never would have known. So, yeah, those were some of the things that I was experiencing as well. In your opinion, what do you think is responsible for this rapid uptick in autoimmune disease?
- [07:53]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
It's a challenging question, but I do feel like a lot of the reasons are because of our food quality and because of the toxins in our environment. So looking at the rates of thyroid disorders in frozen blood, right from 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, we have lower rates of Hashimoto's antibodies that are autoimmune thyroid antibodies. But these days the rates are gonna be higher and higher. And I do think the environment is responsible for this.
- [08:22]
Alex Clark
Yeah, I think you're really onto something there. And then also tell me if this is true or not, but I heard that being on birth control for 10 years or more can increase your likelihood like over 230% of developing autoimmune.
- [08:33]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Unfortunately, this is correct. A recent study just came out connecting birth control pills to higher rates of autoimmune thyroid disease. I had suspected this as a practicing pharmacist, that proton pump inhibitors and antibiotics as well as birth control pills can contribute to this. But the research is now out there confirming this, unfortunately.
- [08:54]
Alex Clark
What is life like for somebody with Hashimoto's that their significant other should understand?
- [08:59]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I think people who are, who love somebody with Hashimoto's should know that we don't necessarily try to be difficult. We are not lazy. We're not trying to make your life harder. A lot of the times our energy is so, so severely impacted by Hashimoto's that it is tough to get out of bed in the mornings. It is tough to do basic day to day tasks. Right. I know that before I was diagnosed I had this label of being lazy because I, when I was in pharmacy school, I would wake up and go to school every day and do my studies. But on the weekends I would be sleeping until noon. And my parents and my brother and a lot of my friends would make fun of me. They would say, Isabelle is just so lazy, right? She is just so lazy. She just wants to sit around all day. She sleeps until noon. You are just such a lazy person. And that is absolutely not the truth. A lot of people with Hashimoto's with autoimmune thyroid disease, they might be very, very ambitious and motivated people, but they just lack the energy to really go after their dreams. And I think this is very, very Devastating for a lot of people. It's also an invisible illness. And so a lot of our friends and family members and loved ones might not be able to know how much effort it actually takes us to show up, right? To go to a restaurant and celebrate with girlfriends.
- [10:23]
Alex Clark
Oh my God.
- [10:24]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Sometimes we might need three days to recover from that.
- [10:27]
Alex Clark
Literally that, that it, that is the thing is that I will go and I'm like, man, maybe I'm just more introverted than I thought that I was, but in reality it just might be Hashimoto's is that when I am at an event or an activity for multiple, like talking to people non stop or whatever, I am so exhausted. But like, it's really beyond, like what's explainable. Like I do need like a day or two. I'm like, I can't go out tomorrow. Like I went out last night, but it was like just a long dinner or something like that where I had to really talk to people and be social. And I just am so tired. But I wonder if that plays a part in it. If an autoimmune disease is left untreated for too long, what kind of damage can that potentially do to the body?
- [11:09]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Unfortunately, autoimmunity is progressive. And so we might start off with a person having an autoimmune attack against their thyroid gland. Initially you're going to have symptoms of that and eventually you're going to have your thyroid damaged to the point where you need to get on thyroid hormones forever. Right? Because it's so much easier to prevent damage than it is to like restore and regrow a thyroid gland. The thing that not a lot of people understand though, is that it can further progress into other autoimmune disorders. So unfortunately, in some cases I've seen people with Graves disease or Hashimoto's where they just get on thyroid medications or perhaps they have their thyroid gland removed and they think that this is it, that this is all they need to do, but then they end up with another type of autoimmune condition like rheumatoid arthritis or lupus and psoriatic arthritis. And it's something that I feel like more people need to know about. And this is why I'm so passionate about root causes. And it's like, what is actually driving you to have this autoimmune dysfunction? Right.
- [12:14]
Alex Clark
Is there any connection between Hashimoto's and potential infertility?
- [12:18]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
There's a huge connection between Hashimoto's and infertility. It's really, really heartbreaking because so many women in their 20s and their 30s, in their early 40s, they can have multiple miscarriages and nobody thinks to test their thyroid function when their thyroid antibodies are elevated. This can also be a reason as well as when they don't have enough thyroid hormone on board. And it's really, really devastating. I feel like thyroid testing should be a thing that every woman should get when she thinks about starting to have children, but it's not part of the standard panel.
- [12:54]
Alex Clark
Yeah. So what is the exact thing that we need to ask for when getting blood work done to tell if we have an autoimmune disease or so?
- [13:02]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
In addition to the tsh, which is the thyroid stimulating hormone, we also want to ask for thyroid antibodies. These are thyroid peroxidase antibodies and thyroglobulin antibodies are the two most common antibodies in Hashimoto's. And they can be elevated for 5, 10, 15 years before a change in TSH is seen, before a change in thyroid hormones is seen. And if you have these antibodies and they're elevated and your quote, unquote, thyroid function is still normal, this is going to be the best time for you to take action on your health to get rid of those symptoms, to get rid of those antibodies, to get the autoimmunity into remission and prevent a lifelong need for medication and prevent so many symptoms.
- [13:53]
Alex Clark
What should somebody's first steps be who was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's? They're listening to this podcast, they're like, oh, I just was told I had this and they don't know anything about it or what to do now.
- [14:02]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Definitely educate yourself. So I recommend being an empowered patient. This is going to be huge on your healing journey. If you know the state of conventional medicine in this country, unfortunately, you will know that there are many doctors out there, many of them are well meaning, but they just don't know what they don't know. And there's a ton of research and a ton of resources out there that can help you take charge of your health to feel better. The few things that I found that are incredibly helpful for women with thyroid disorders and Hashimoto's are gonna be dietary triggers. So getting off of gluten, dairy and soy for about 90 days, for many women, this can get the autoimmune condition into remission. There's also nutrient deficiencies that can be really, really relevant in thyroid dysfunction. Selenium and myo inositol in those very, very early stages when the TSH is just slightly elevated and the thyroid antibodies are, are high. This can normalize thyroid function for many women and get rid of a lot of the symptoms. Beyond that, I would also look at supporting your detox pathways, supporting your stress response, as well as looking at your gut health, like, what is happening inside of your gut. There's a huge connection between the gut and autoimmune disease.
- [15:25]
Alex Clark
Would sauna be really good for us?
- [15:27]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Sauna is going to be a really great tool for Hashimoto's autoimmune disease and hypothyroidism. Many women with. With an underactive thyroid, they actually don't sweat enough, and so they're not getting rid of their toxins properly. Now.
- [15:42]
Alex Clark
I never sweat.
- [15:43]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, Nobody complains.
- [15:45]
Alex Clark
And I live in Arizona where it's under 20 degrees. I get barely sweaty ever.
- [15:48]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, it's not a symptom that most people really complain about. Everybody's like, oh, the hair loss and the fatigue. But sweating is actually really good for us because this is a great way to get rid of toxins. And so when you spend some time in a sauna, you're gonna work up a sweat, and that's gonna get rid of some of those toxins from your body. And it's also gonna give your little thyroid gland a bit of a break.
- [16:11]
Alex Clark
Ooh.
- [16:12]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Because our thyroid helps to generate heat for our bodies, and when we heat ourselves up in a sauna, that gives the thyroid gland a little bit of.
- [16:19]
Alex Clark
A break to counter this. Would a cold plunge be one of the worst things to do if you have Hashimoto's?
- [16:26]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Cold plunges are so, so popular these days. And I'm always like, okay, let's look at these mainstream recommendations. Who are they for?
- [16:35]
Alex Clark
Men.
- [16:36]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Men, Right. If you're a woman with an underactive thyroid and you are chronically cold, please don't do this to yourself. I knew it.
- [16:44]
Alex Clark
And I never have. I never have, Isabella. Because I had a feeling that this was gonna be a bad idea for me. And I hate being cold. I hate cold pools. Even in the summer, it's gotta be like dead bath water. I won't get in. And so I always thought I should avoid that. So that's very interesting. Now for somebody that's like, okay, okay, I get all this. But also, I. I don't even know what a thyroid is or what it does. Could you give us like a, you know, like we're in fifth grade definition of what a thyroid does?
- [17:08]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Of course. So it's this butterfly shaped organ that sits at the base of our neck, and it really runs our metabolism, so it helps us take our food and turn it into our energy. And it also helps. It's, it's considered our thermoregulator. So it helps to give us heat, right? So it generates heat for us. If we have an underactive thyroid, oftentimes we need more heat in our lives and sauna is going to be helpful for that. Living in warm climates can be very, very helpful. I know, I live in Austin. You live in Scottsdale. This is a great place to be when you have an underactive thyroid where cold exposure, even winter time can be a time for us where this can make our symptoms worse.
- [17:56]
Alex Clark
The other night I decided to get all fancy, cook a little girl's dinner. I'm talking steak frites, the whole shebang. I wanted it to be memorable, but I also was aiming for no stress. So I grabbed Jesse and Ben's Beef Tallow fries. And let me tell you, those fries were gas. No cap, as Gen Z would say. Jesse and Ben's fries are crispy, golden and delicious. Cooked in the healthiest, most flavor packed grass fed beef tallow. So I decided to make the rosemary garlic ones with avocado oil. And then my girlfriend starts reaching onto my plate for more. I still love her, but now she only has four fingers on one hand. Jesse and Ben's Tallow and Sea salt fries are made with non GMO russet potatoes, 100% grass fed beef tallow and a dash of sea Salt. Better than McDonald's in taste and ingredients. They even just launched sweet potato fries cooked in beef tallow. And spoiler alert, they're incredible. The best part, you can now grab Jesse and Ben's fries nationwide at Sprouts farmers markets and select whole food stores. If you want fries that will actually make your girls night unforgettable, go to JesseandBenz.com and then find where these seed oil free fries are near you. That's Jesse and Benz.com for the best frozen beef tallow or avocado oil fries. If something happened tomorrow, how many meals could you make from what's already in your pantry? If the answer stresses you out, let me tell you about the harvest right home freeze dryer. You can use it to freeze dry leftovers, meal preps, garden veggies, fruits from the farmer's market, even fully cooked meals. Your shelves can be filled with food that you actually want to eat and it'll last up to 25 years. No rotating, no mystery cans, no freezer burn. Just healthy homemade meals and snacks preserved and ready to go. And here's the best part. The food that you freeze dry yourself with. A Harvest Right freeze dryer looks and tastes way better than store bought freeze dried stuff. And it costs way less. Especially when you're not tossing out spoiled food. From meats and seafood to pasta dishes, even scrambled eggs and sauces, it really handles it all. The system is foolproof. Just press a button and the patented smart freeze tack handles the entire process automatically. Whether you're into prepping, saving money, or just want to waste less food, this freeze dryer from Harvest Right will blow your mind. Learn more and experience the harvest right difference@harvestright.com that's harvestright.com the stay at home mom's favorite freeze dryer. Is hypothyroidism hereditary?
- [20:13]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
That's a really great question. So we do know that there are genes that can cause various issues, but there's also this environmental exposure. Right.
- [20:23]
Alex Clark
I wonder if it's more epigenetics than hereditary.
- [20:27]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Absolutely. So definitely we do have the genetic predisposition. Right. And you can have identical twins who have the same genes. Right. If a case was purely genetic, you would see 100% of identical twins would have Hashimoto's. Right. But that's not the case, right?
- [20:45]
Alex Clark
Oh yeah.
- [20:46]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
So oftentimes we do know that environmental triggers play a big role in turning on that genetic expression.
- [20:53]
Alex Clark
So I asked the audience to like submit some of these are my questions. Because, you know, I also have Hashimoto. So I had questions. But then some of these are submitted. One person wanted to know, why would somebody CRP be over 10, but they test negative for all autoimmune?
- [21:07]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
That's an interesting question. So I would look at what's driving the inflammation in your body. Sometimes it could be your diet, sometimes it could be related to your heart, sometimes it can be an infection.
- [21:18]
Alex Clark
How do you know if you need medication for Hashimoto's or not?
- [21:21]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
If you're somebody that is trying to conceive and you have thyroid antibodies, this would be a really good indication to take thyroid medications. Because we do know that thyroid hormones can support getting pregnant and a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby. We generally speaking, conventional medicine will say if you have a TSH up until like 8 or 9 or 10, you don't need thyroid medications. And I would advocate for people to get on thyroid medications sooner and to balance their hormones if they're symptomatic. Right. If you have symptoms like depression and mood swings and your TSH is even a little bit elevated, then getting on the right type of thyroid hormone. And I prefer like Natural desiccated thyroid hormones can be a really, really big game changer for your symptoms.
- [22:13]
Alex Clark
Okay. Cause I'm not on anything. I've been really trying to see if like diet, lifestyle stuff could help me, but I haven't retested since I was diagnosed, which was January 2024. So how often should we be retesting and doing the thyroid full blood panel.
- [22:28]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Every three months or so is what I would recommend.
- [22:31]
Alex Clark
Because then I need to do that.
- [22:34]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
You should. You know, a lot of times we can get the condition into remission. So in the early stages, if somebody is not actively trying to have a baby, is not super symptomatic, and perhaps they have a slightly elevated TSH and thyroid antibodies, they can try various things to see if they can get the thyroid condition into remission and normalize their tsh. Some of these might include selenium and minositol. They might include going gluten free or dairy free, figuring out if they have any kind of infectious triggers. In some cases, a low iodine approach might be helpful. And then red light therapy over the thyroid gland. So there's a handful of methods that can be really, really incredibly helpful for getting into remission. And. And I would just monitor yourself every three months or so to see, hey, I'm making all these changes, but are they making a difference for my body? Right.
- [23:29]
Alex Clark
I wanna point out, she said, red light therapy to help your symptoms. Every guest unprompted by me, every guest basically on the show has sung the praises of red light the for so many different medical issues, have said it's the future of medicine. And that is the number one thing. I notice my symptoms starting to tick back up when I go too long without doing red light therapy. I have my juve. I try to do it 10 minutes every morning, 10 minutes every evening. And I feel like it is a game changer for managing my symptoms. That was like one of the first things I started making sure I did regularly once being diagnosed because I was kind of off and on. Like, I'd go like once a week or something like that. And then I was like, no, I got to do this every day. And man, that made a huge difference.
- [24:09]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
It can make a really, really big difference. There's actually a lot of clinical studies that have been done with cold laser, which is a very specific type of red light therapy. And they shown it over the thyroid gland. There was a couple of clinics in Brazil that did this research and they found thyroid antibodies reducing thyroid glands that were enlarged, shrinking the TSH numbers or Thyroid function normalizing in many of these cases. And so some people can get into remission this way. The tricky part is you do have to be consistent if you are using like a, a red light therapy device, which is much more accessible than a cold laser, believe me. You. I ordered one of those cold lasers from Brazil and I got it and I was like, I'm gonna like burn a hole in my head. So I. So I, I much rather use red light therapy on a consistent basis.
- [24:59]
Alex Clark
Is it possible if you're already on thyroid medication, to get off of it?
- [25:03]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, in some cases, people can get off of thyroid medications as long as they have an intact thyroid gland. Of course, if you had your thyroid gland removed, then that's not going to be a possibility. That there is a couple of companies on the market that are trying to like, grow back thyroid tissue, which I feel like is very exciting, but we're not quite there yet. Maybe 10, 15 years away at this point. What I do see is people who really get their ducks in a row, so they might figure out that they have celiac disease and they might find their thyroid function comes back. I have found people utilizing myo inositol and selenium, their thyroid function can normalize. And it was sort of a surprise where I was like, oh, wow, you are becoming hyperthyroid, right? Like, you are on meds and we weren't trying to get you off of meds, but you need to go back and get retested and talk to your doctor about reducing your dosage of medications just because some of these interventions can work quite well. So anytime somebody is on meds and they're trying lifestyle changes, I do encourage them to check in with themselves and check in with their doctors. You know, monitor your heart rate. Hey, if you're feeling like, anxious and you have insomnia and having palpitations and you're doing lifestyle changes, these can actually work. And so you do want to make sure you monitor that because in some cases you can become over medicated.
- [26:28]
Alex Clark
How many women are walking around with Hashimoto's or another autoimmune disease and don't know?
- [26:32]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
My goodness. I would estimate that one in five women will have Hashimoto's at some point in their lives. And pregnancy, puberty and perimenopause are going to be the top three times where we might see the onset of those symptoms of the antibodies.
- [26:49]
Alex Clark
Is it ever too late to reverse Hashimoto's?
- [26:52]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I would say no. I think you can always work on making yourself healthier. I do find that it's much easier if you address it in the early stages. So if you just have thyroid antibodies and maybe, like, mild thyroid hormone dysfunction, then it's going to be much easier than if you've had it for 45 years and your thyroid gland has been under attack for so long. But, I mean, I work with women in their 70s, incredible women in their 70s and 80s, and they're seeing a huge turnaround in their health that have had it for 50, 60 years just by utilizing the lifestyle changes and some of the functional medicine approaches.
- [27:31]
Alex Clark
So what are some concrete ways that we can reduce thyroid antibodies?
- [27:36]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
The research has shown selenium in supplement form. I know a lot of people, like, love Brazil nuts, but I have done, like, the comparisons in Brazil nuts. They're delicious, they're beautiful, they're tasty, but they're just not gonna move the needle as much as, like, a targeted selenium supplement. Generally speaking, 200 micrograms. When it's used as a standalone, in about three months or so, you should see about a 40% reduction. When you combine it with myo inositol, around 600 milligrams of myo inositol and around. I don't know why, but 83 micrograms of selenium is the dosage that was studied. People will start seeing a even higher reduction in thyroid antibodies. The. The two seem to work in synergy together. Systemic enzymes, which are enzymes that are taken on an empty stomach. I know that sounds a little bit weird.
- [28:28]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [28:29]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
But these have been shown to reduce both thyroid antibodies. So thyroid peroxidase antibodies and thyroglobulin antibodies.
- [28:37]
Alex Clark
Where do you get cystic systemic enzymes?
- [28:39]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Wobenzyme is one particular brand that's, like, old school and has been studied. And there's various manufacturers out there that make systemic enzymes.
- [28:49]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [28:50]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
There's also aloe. So drinking 50 milliliters of aloe twice a day over the course of a.
- [28:57]
Alex Clark
Little bit of aloe vera juice in my smoothie every morning. But, I mean, it's very little. It's like 14 cup, I think.
- [29:02]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, that could make a difference.
- [29:03]
Alex Clark
Ooh, I didn't even know. I just was like, oh, this might help with hydration because. Oh, that's the other. That's the other huge symptom I have of Hashimoto's extreme dryness. Dry eye, dry skin, the worst. Dry hair. That's like my big problem. So I was just putting aloe vera in. Cause I thought that might help.
- [29:19]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
It's really Interesting, because a researcher with Hashimoto's was using it and drinking it for skin.
- [29:25]
Alex Clark
You're kidding, right? And my intuition is like, honestly, bar.
- [29:29]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
None, that it's quite incredible. It's quite incredible. And she found her thyroid antibodies and her TSH getting better with utilizing aloe for skin benefits. And then she decided to. To do that in a lab with. With other thyroid patients. And aloe, just aloe vera, can be very helpful.
- [29:49]
Alex Clark
Incredible. Well, maybe I should do more. Maybe because I do a little. I do a cup of water and 1/4 cup of aloe vera every morning. Maybe I should just do 1/4 cup of regular water in a cup of aloe. Do majority of it. Aloe.
- [30:01]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah. If you tolerate it, it doesn't make you run to the bathroom. Then.
- [30:05]
Alex Clark
No. Yeah, that's great. Okay. Anyway, so the concrete ways to reduce our antibodies. We've got the special enzymes that you talked about, the aloe vera juice. What was the other thing?
- [30:15]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Selenium and myo inositol.
- [30:16]
Alex Clark
Selenium and then any other things.
- [30:19]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Red light therapy over the thyroid gland can help with that. And definitely figuring out what's driving the antibodies. For some people it could be gluten sensitivity. For some people it could be an infection like H. Pylori that they might not even suspect.
- [30:36]
Alex Clark
And that's the kind of stuff that you figure out if you do a gut microbiome test.
- [30:40]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Exactly.
- [30:40]
Alex Clark
You gotta poop in a little tray and do all that, which is not very fun, but it is worth it. Everyone should do it.
- [30:45]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Not glamorous, but totally worth it.
- [30:47]
Alex Clark
Yes. What does it mean if you go gluten free but then your antibiotics still go up?
- [30:51]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
That means there's something else that's driving your inflammation. And I know sometimes it's something like stress. So if you're finding the gluten free diet very stressful because you don't have anything to eat, that can be incredibly challenging. And there's other things too. So I know some gluten free foods may contain soy, which can be a driver of thyroid antibodies. Some gluten free foods may also be very much like corn based and so they might mess with your blood sugar more. I know some people go on a gluten free diet, but without really understanding how to replace gluten properly, they might just replace gluten with a whole bunch of junk food. Right. And I know I was, I did this myself in my twenties when I was diagnosed, I was like, oh, so I'm gonna go gluten free. So I'm just gonna get all this processed food with soy and, you know, lots of corn. And that really messed with my blood sugar.
- [31:48]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Well, the other thing I think a lot of people don't think about is that they'll have like an autoimmune disease like Hashimoto's. And then, you know, soy is like something to majorly avoid for us. Like, you don't want soy sauce and soybean oil and all this. But then they'll be eating a lot of eggs. And if you're getting conventional eggs at the store, basically all of them, unless they are specific about being organic and soy free, which they're just not, is they're feeding those chickens soy feed. And so then you're eating it. And I think that's contributing. Some of those most popular organic brands at the store are still doing soy feed, come to find out. So anyway, that could be a, like a sneaky thing, contributing that you don't realize.
- [32:26]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. That's such a. That's such an important exposure source. I love. We used to have Amish eggs. And if you go to a farmer's market, you can actually ask the farmers, like, what do you feed? Exactly.
- [32:39]
Alex Clark
And so that's what the number one question is going to be. Because everybody gets frustrated and they're like, well, then what?
- [32:42]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
How am I supposed to eat eggs? What am I supposed to do?
- [32:44]
Alex Clark
And I'm not saying don't ever eat eggs, but you have to know your farmer and you have to know where you're getting them. So, yeah, local farmers market or a friend of yours that has chickens and is laying eggs, you can say, what are you feeding them? I mean, so it's really just knowing your farmer that's always going to be the thing to ask them those things about, like, what they're feeding their animals. How important and also accurate are the IGE and IGG food sensitivity tests for autoimmune?
- [33:09]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
This is such a good question. And something to consider is that there are so many different tests on the market. Right. And they all use different methodologies. Like, so one test might use cooked food, another test might use raw food. Right. And they use different assays to figure out if something is a positive reaction. And they use different numbers. And so I, I'll see a lot of practitioners say, like, these tests just don't work. Right. And I would agree with many of the tests out there. Like, I have seen tests where I'm like, yeah, this doesn't correlate at all. And then I have had One test that I've done with clients for the last 10 plus years that I've done myself almost every year. And it really correlates, like if you have pineapple sensitivity and if you have sensitivity to ginger and you're having acid reflux, then you get rid of those two foods, then your acid reflux is going to go away.
- [34:06]
Alex Clark
So I think what stresses people out is you get this done and this is what happened to me. I mean, and mine was still the low end, but I had 15 things come up that I was eating every day. And that was the thing that really was confusing to me. It was foods that I ate every single day. And that's it. It was nothing on there that I never eat. It was only the stuff that I eat, which I thought was interesting, but it was like a blood test or whatever that I got done. And then, you know, you have people that literally have 40 items on there saying to avoid, and they're like, there's literally nothing for me to eat. Like, I don't know what to do.
- [34:34]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, that's very. That's very challenging when you see a food sensitivity test and there's a lot of foods on there that are inflammatory for you. And one, I always am like, okay, which test did you do? Because some of the tests will show up sensitive for everything. And it's. I'm not gonna be able to correlate it to your thyroid antibodies. I'm not gonna be able to correlate it to your symptoms. I think allit tests is the test that I've used and I've been able to correlate. But another big part of that is like, why are you sensitive to so many different foods? And for many people, one, yes, it's food quality. So we wanna look at that. Are you eating those quality foods? Two is a lot of times when we don't have enough digestive acid, we're going to be sensitive to a ton of different foods. So if you have low stomach acid, which most people with hypothyroidism do, then that can cause a whole host of food sensitivities. That doesn't mean you need to get off of these foods forever. That means we need to fix your stomach acid. For some people, this is driven by stress. For some people, this is driven by low thiamine levels, so you can supplement with thiamine. For some people, it's driven by H. Pylori, which is an infection that impacts the stomach. And so if you treat the H. Pylori infection, then your digestion comes back on board many times I'll find people will start using digestive enzymes. I love betaine with pepsin and they sort of like wake up, their digestion comes back on track, they're not sensitive to as many foods and even their energy levels and their pain improves and so that's a big driver. Another big driver might be gut infections. So if you have a protozoal gut infection, no matter what you're eating, you could be eating like, you know, the perfect organic grass fed diet. You're still going to be sensitive to foods because there's just that inflammation in your gut that's been being driven by an infection. So a lot of times when I work with people, some of them have been on elimination diets for a very long time and maybe their symptoms get a little bit better. But if they stay, have to stay on those elimination diets for a long time and they're generally eating like a good, healthy, clean diet, that's going to be a red flag for me that they have some kind of a gut infection or digestive enzyme deficiency or something's off with their gut. Because most healthy people should be able to digest most foods, right? And of course we want to eat organic and clean and there are some things like gluten that are much more challenging to digest. But we generally want to re establish that healthy digestion for people.
- [37:16]
Alex Clark
I've been using red light therapy for a while now and honestly I didn't realize how much it was helping until I missed it a few days. My sleep got worse, I felt sluggish and my energy was off. That's when I realized red light therapy is the missing piece. So does red light therapy actually work? Absolutely. It uses red and near infrared light, clinically proven, to boost cellular energy by increasing ATP production. This helps with muscle recovery, pain reduction and even better sleep. For me it's been a game changer. Now you might wonder how's this different from just like using a red heat lamp or a chicken lamp? Well, red heat lamps just produce heat which feels nice, but it doesn't provide the therapeutic benefits of red light. Heat is not the same as light therapy. It doesn't promote cell regeneration or healing like juves medical grade LEDs. Joovv uses clinically proven wavelengths and offers the right dosage for your body. Their devices are independently safety tested and provide the benefits in just 10 minutes. It's the most effective way to experience red light therapy. Go to Joovv.com Alex and my code will automatically populate for a discount. That's J-O-O-V-V.com forward slash Alex. And the code will pop up. You know how we all try to be healthy, right? We work out, we eat organic and we drink green juice sometimes. But what about the little things that we don't think about? Like flossing? I know it's not the most glamorous topic, but let's be real. Most floss out there is packed with synthetic junk that doesn't belong in your body. But you know what? Zebra floss is the exception. Remember, whatever you floss with is getting right into your bloodstream there in your gum line. Zebra floss is clean. I'm talking no artificial colors, no petrochemicals, no weird wax or fluoride or microplastics. It's just pure non toxic floss that gets the job done without all the crap we don't need. If you care about what's going on in your body, this is a simple swap that makes a huge difference. And while you're at it, you got to check out Zebra's new non toxic lip gloss. I've been using it non stop. It's smooth, nourishing, leaves my lips feeling hydrated, not sticky. It's the perfect little touch to finish off your non toxic routine. So if you're still using that old toxic floss, it's time to step it up. Zebra's got you covered. Trust me, your dentist will thank you. And hey, so will your lips go to yay zebra.com use code Alex for 10% off. That's yay zebra.com with code Alex for 10% off. Is it safe to just take vitamin D3K2 forever or should you take breaks?
- [39:27]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I feel like you can take it for long term as long as you're properly monitored. So generally speaking, I love utilizing testing blood tests. If you are taking a vitamin D supplement, this can build up in your system and you can become overdosed on it.
- [39:43]
Alex Clark
Yep.
- [39:43]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
So you do want to monitor that every three to six months?
- [39:46]
Alex Clark
Exactly. I think every few months. Like that. Like three to six months. And then just do another blood test because I was like majorly deficient, just redid and now I'm like high. But I've been really working on my sun exposure and then also taking a supplement and they're like, okay, you can like lay off now because you're like way up there, like a little too much. So I think you do have to retest.
- [40:07]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Yeah, I was gonna say sun exposure is like such a great way to get vitamin D levels. And a lot of times in the summertime, we might not need as much or we might not need vitamin D if we are going to the beach or spending time outside. Whereas in the wintertime, a lot of times around early spring, people really might need to test their levels and start supplementing again. So that's a really good point. It's like sometimes if we just supplement for too long, we can become toxic.
- [40:33]
Alex Clark
Would you recommend intermittent fasting for Hashimoto's?
- [40:36]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
In some cases, yes. In the early stages, I see a lot of people with blood sugar dysregulation, and so I would wanna fix that first. And I might see people with adrenal dysfunction where they get hangry if they do not eat and that can make their hormones worse. So in many stages, when I first work with people and when they're like earlier on their journey, we're really focusing on blood sugar balance. So we're eating protein and we're eating fat and we're eating every two to three hours. Eventually you can get to a point where you're not, you know, blood sugar crashing every few hours if you don't eat. And at that point, it can be beneficial and safe and helpful to do some intermittent fasting. Maybe having a really early dinner, right? Maybe having a 3 or 4 o'clock dinner and then not having breakfast until the next day. But like, sometimes, like, there's all these amazing wellness trends that work really well for healthy people that are already healthy or people that maybe are just a little bit overweight, but they might not be the best fit for people with autoimmune thyroid disease, especially in the early stages.
- [41:41]
Alex Clark
What can somebody do who's been told that they have a thyroid nodule that's.
- [41:45]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Highly suspicious, the highly suspicious nodule. So you can do something like a fine needle aspiration to get that checked out. And there are ways to shrink thyroid nodules. So systemic enzymes can be helpful for that. High dose turmeric can be helpful for that. Some people use glutathione over their thyroid glands and that can be very helpful as well. I accidentally have found that treating gut infections can help get rid of nodules. So I wasn't trying to get rid of nodules for anybody. I was just helping them with autoimmune antibodies. And it turned out that once we treated their infections, they were having a thyroid ultrasound to monitor their nodules. Those nodules started shrinking.
- [42:28]
Alex Clark
How can you live your best life after a thyroidectomy?
- [42:32]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
To live your best life after a thyroidectomy, you really, really have to Be mindful of your thyroid hormones. So you will need a replacement thyroid hormone. Oftentimes it might be higher than what the standard person might receive when they just have Hashimoto's. And some people really do benefit from natural desiccated thyroid that contains a little bit of T3 thyroid hormone. So most of the medications on the market contain levothyroxine, which is T4 thyroid hormone. And that needs to get converted in the body to the more active T3. Now pharmacologists call this a pro drug. And prodrugs work really well on paper, so they always get converted on paper. But that doesn't always happen in the human body. There might be nutrient deficiencies, stress, fasting, all these different things can impact that conversion. And so having thyroid hormones that are pre converted can be very helpful. Another nutrient that might be beneficial is carnitine. This is going to be something that's been found to relieve thyroid fatigue in people with hypothyroidism with Hashimoto's as well as people who have had thyroidectomies.
- [43:43]
Alex Clark
What do you think about a doctor telling somebody who has Graves disease, let's just go ahead and take your thyroid out?
- [43:48]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I would say there are less aggressive things we can do to get Graves into remission. Graves can go into remission spontaneously. It can go into remission with utilizing medications and various herbal remedies. So I would encourage people to not, you know, not be in such a big rush to get rid of their thyroid gland because one, they'll need to be on replacement thyroid hormones for life if they do have their thyroid gland removed. And two, I've seen too many people who start off with Graves disease and they get their thyroid gland removed and they think they have a cure and they end up with rheumatoid arthritis or some other type of autoimmune condition. So I would encourage them to look for less aggressive measures. Perhaps low dose naltrexone is another medication that, that might be a bit more tolerated. And then looking at like the root cause drivers, sometimes it's that H. Pylori infection that can be causing Graves disease to express itself.
- [44:48]
Alex Clark
Have you been watching the Wendy Williams this case at all in her graves?
- [44:53]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
A little bit, yeah. I know that she's had some challenges and she's been institutionalized lately. Is that right?
- [44:59]
Alex Clark
It's like a whole mess, but I mean her eyes are like basically popping out of her head and stuff and it's just really sad. But like what I saw somebody and this is not my theory. I Saw somebody else come up with this theory and I thought, wow, I wonder, that's very interesting is that she for years was on a vegan diet and you know, the different deficiencies that you develop being on a long term vegan diet. I was just curious, you know, how would something like veganism play into autoimmune and are there certain types of diets that are better than others for somebody struggling with this kind of stuff?
- [45:30]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
The vegan diet, again, it's one of those things that's very popular and I feel like if you're eating the standard American diet and you go vegan, you might feel better, right? Because yeah, we know the standard American diet isn't the best. But the challenge I've seen with vegan diets and specifically with Hashimoto's is that a lot of times people might have new onset Hashimoto's because of a vegan diet. So the vegan diet, especially if, if you're eating a lot of processed foods or if you're a pizzatarian, right. You might be getting a lot of the foods that are highly difficult to digest, such as gluten, right. Or you might be eating a lot of grains that may be more challenging for a person that has some gut impact to digest. You're also going to become deficient in various nutrients in many cases, unless you're properly supplementing. These could include omega 3s which manage inflammation. Very helpful for autoimmune disease. You might become deficient in ferritin, which is the iron storage protein. You could become anemic with B12 anemia as well. One of my theories is that I feel like iron deficiency is a really relevant and important trigger for autoimmune thyroid disease. And I feel like this might be one of the reasons why vegans are going to be at greater risk for Hashimoto's. And then another one is carnitine. So carnitine is primarily found in red meat and we do know that carnitine plays an important role in thyroid function. I have seen unfortunately a lot of my client cases where they go vegan for health reasons or trend reasons and this is what brings on their Hashimoto's and we can get them into remission by introducing more like grass fed red meat. The diets that have been really done well for a lot of my clients would be like the Paleo diet where people are, are really mindful of the choices of, of the quality of the food that they eat, right? So they're generally going to be eating things like grass fed Meat, wild caught fish, organic fruits and vegetables. And this is going to be a great place to start for a lot of people.
- [47:36]
Alex Clark
Can thyroid meds cause vertigo symptoms?
- [47:39]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
In some cases they can, but also just having Hashimoto's can cause vertigo symptoms. So there is this interesting connection between thyroid antibodies and inner ear antibodies where they can cross react. Essentially, if you have thyroid antibodies, they can cross react with your inner ear antibodies, which can lead to vertigo. So for a lot of my clients, what I would recommend when they have Hashimoto's and vertigo is like, let's really go after the thyroid antibodies and try to reduce your symptoms that way.
- [48:10]
Alex Clark
What does it mean if one hormone is high and one is low? Like free t3 high and then reverse t3 low?
- [48:17]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
So if the free t3 was high and reverse t3 was low, that would generally mean that you were converting enough of your T3 and so perhaps maybe you were overdosed on T3 containing meds. What I generally see more often than not is that T4 might be normal, but then T3 is like borderline or low, and that is a indication that you're not properly converting T4 to T3.
- [48:46]
Alex Clark
What are the effects of hypothyroidism on breastfeeding?
- [48:50]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Hypothyroidism can lead women to have a lot of issues with breastfeeding. One of them is just inadequate milk supply. If you are hypothyroid, you might lose your milk supply. Sometimes women might see this postpartum, with postpartum thyroiditis setting on. This might be a new thing for them. And then the other challenging thing that not a lot of healthcare professionals talk about is women who have PCOS or thyroid dysfunction during puberty. Their breast tissue might not properly develop, and so they might not have enough glandular breast tissue which produces milk. And so they might have primary lactation failure where their bodies just are not able to produce milk on their own. And it's been very, very. I know, I love breast milk and breastfeeding, but I think there really needs to be an awareness raised about this because you can absolutely address this. But most nurses at the hospital might not know. They'll say, every woman can breast milk feed. Yeah, but if you had pcos or hypothyroidism during puberty, then you might need more support.
- [49:59]
Alex Clark
Can iodine help postpartum thyroid issues?
- [50:03]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Iodine's a very controversial nutrient in the thyroid world, so we need to have enough of it to have proper thyroid function. But when we get too much of it, we can end up inflaming ourselves even more when we have those thyroid antibodies. So generally speaking, what I recommend is the amount of iodine in a multivitamin or a prenatal. That's gonna be very helpful for thyroid function, that's gonna be helpful for thyroid antibodies, that's gonna be helpful for your mood. But those mega doses where I see people like taking those drops that are like milligrams, I get really nervous about that because unfortunately I've seen too many people who just skyrocket their thyroid antibodies. They go from like the hundred range to the thousand plus range. They skyrocket their TSH and they can become bedridden when they were like normal.
- [50:53]
Alex Clark
Yikes.
- [50:54]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Happy walking around people with maybe a little bit tired. So I get super nervous about that, especially if that's like the first thing that people do. Because if you're selenium deficient, giving yourself more iodine can actually cause more inflammation, unfortunately.
- [51:11]
Alex Clark
Looking for a weekend of inspiration, connection and friendship? The Young Women's Leadership Summit is the place to be. Whether you're young or old, come with a group of friends or flying solo, you're going to be surrounded by strong, like minded women who value faith, family and truth. Also health speakers like Riley Gaines, Hilda Labrada Gore, myself and many more. You're going to hear from some of the most inspiring voices in the conservative politics and culture space. Join us in Dallas this June. Get tickets@ywls2025.com use code ALEX to get 25% off general admission. All right, let's talk about the gluten free bread struggle. I've tried pretty much every gluten free bread on the market and let's be real, most of it is butt. It's either dry, crumbly or just tastes like cardboard. Seriously, what is that about? It's frustrating because you just want something that resembles real bread again. And then I found AWG Bakery and everything changed. This is the only gluten free bread that actually tastes good. It's hearty, it's flavorful, it doesn't fall apart the second you try to eat it. You can slice it thin or thick, toast it up and it doesn't crumble into a pile of sadness. Try their everyday bread, which is my favorite rosemary everything or cinna raisin. And don't even get me started on their bagels. It's the real bread experience that we've been waiting for as gluten free people. Plus it's grain free, made with clean, nutrient dense ingredients. No more cardboard breads for me. Or seed oils. If you're tired of the usual disappointing gluten free bread, give AWG Bakery a try. Go to awgbakery.com use code Alex Clark for 10 off your order. That's AWG Bakery.com code Alex Clark for 10 off. I would recommend trying the Everyday Bread. You ever crawl into bed, get all snuggled up thinking, yes, tonight's the night I'll fall asleep instantly. I'm gonna wake up refreshed, not want to murder someone at 8:00am and then, well, bam. You feel like you're sleeping on a sandpaper cactus. That was me, okay? I'd lie down on these sheets that were rougher than a 2am breakup text, praying to fall asleep without screaming in agony. And no, they didn't help with anything. It was like sleeping on a rug in the Sahara and I was the idiot who couldn't figure out why I was overheating. And then I made the best decision of my life. I bought Cozy Earth. The Cozy Earth bamboo sheet set is made from 100% premium viscose from bamboo, which, believe it or not, is actually comfortable. You can breathe in these sheets like you're not suffocating on your body heat. They're soft. Like soft enough to make you question every other fabric you've ever touched in your life. Soft. And the best part, they get softer with every wash. They're like rewarding you for being a decent human who deserves a good night's sleep. And if you want to be extra, I know you do. Their women's stretch knit bamboo pajama set feels like wearing a cloud that has been blessed by the gods of good sleep. It's cooler than cotton, lighter than air, and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Don't keep suffering in a plastic Nightmare. Go to cozyearth.com Alex and use code Alex for 40 off. That's cozyearth.com Alex with code Alex for 40 off. A better year starts with better sleep. Wrap yourself in Cozy Earth. Happy. Have you ever heard of hot tubs being really bad for people with Hashimoto's?
- [54:02]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Sometimes. Yeah. Because of the bromine content or because of the halogen content. So you might have, you know, fluoride or bromine or chlorine inside of your hot tubs and water supply. So I think that can be really, really challenging for people because you feel like, okay, now I have to avoid everything when I have hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's and autoimmunity. So I used to be like, okay, Avoid pools, avoid this, avoid that. But these days I'm like, let's do a really solid liver support protocol and let's have you sweating. Let's do some Epsom salt baths. Let's filter your water supply so that occasional exposures. We live in a crazy toxic world are not gonna, you know, throw you over the edge.
- [54:47]
Alex Clark
How do you get to a better T3 range to conceive?
- [54:50]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
One of the easy ways is to get on thyroid hormones, right? And so in order to conceive, generally speaking, I recommend really, really getting those thyroid hormones dialed in. A healthy woman without thyroid dysfunction, her TSH is pretty close to 1. And so the reference range that I would recommend would be like 0.5 to 2 for most women. And then making sure that you're taking quality prenatals that contain methylfolate, taking quality fish oils is going to be really, really helpful. Some women have found utilizing things like low dose naltrexone can be helpful lowering the autoimmunity.
- [55:26]
Alex Clark
I'm on that.
- [55:27]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Helpful.
- [55:27]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Why do you like that for Hashimoto's?
- [55:30]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I like it for a lot of people because it really gives them an opportunity to tame down the autoimmune response against their thyroid gland. And so they can feel significantly better within just a few short weeks or a few short months, and that can get them into remission. Now, I will say about half of the time it doesn't work, but for some people, it works really, really well.
- [55:54]
Alex Clark
Is there an association between Hashimoto's and histamine intolerance?
- [55:58]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Absolutely. A lot of times people might have histamine intolerance when they have Hashimoto's, and this is an important clue of what's driving their symptoms. H. Pylori is a big histamine producer. There's a protozoa that I found in about 30% of people with Hashimoto's called Blastocystis hominis. That's a huge histamine producer. And then mold can also be a huge histamine producer. And these are very relevant triggers for Hashimoto's. And addressing them can get the histamine issues to go away and can get Hashimoto's to get go into remission as well.
- [56:31]
Alex Clark
If you're trying to avoid histamines, what foods should you avoid?
- [56:34]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Generally, like fermented foods would be something that can be high in histamine wine. I know, I'm sorry to say that, but that can be very high in histamine leftovers. So if you are somebody that like meal preps, which is amazing. Then avoiding having left, eating the same leftovers, they're going to have higher rates of histamine. Foods that are slow cooked can have higher rates of histamine bone broth. Now you're killing me to my heart. The good news is that you can utilize very simple things to support your histamine clearance. One of them would be a nutrient known as P5P, which is the active version of B6 and that helps to clear histamines out of your body.
- [57:17]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [57:18]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
And also figuring out like it's usually not the foods that are the problem, it's usually your gut microbiome that could be the problem. When you have histamine issues.
- [57:27]
Alex Clark
How do you feel about LDN for high reverse T3?
- [57:30]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
With high reverse T3 I typically find that it's related to stress or low ferritin levels. And so those would be the first two places I would start is looking at somebody's ferritin levels and addressing those properly. And then the second thing is like looking at balancing your adrenals and stress response. Those would be the primary things I would do. So supporting adrenals with adaptogens, this can be very, very helpful. As far as LDN for high reverse T3, I haven't necessarily played around with that, so I'll have to keep a better eye on that.
- [58:07]
Alex Clark
How do you deal with weight gain on Hashimoto's?
- [58:10]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Weight gain with Hashimoto's can be super, super challenging. One of the things that I found to be incredibly helpful would be of course cleaning up your diet. But also berberine and myo inositol are two remedies that can be very helpful. And berberine in particular can be helpful for that leaky gut intestinal permeability, which is very common in Hashimoto's. I have found a lot of times it helps balance blood sugar and anecdotally I find that it can help reduce thyroid antibodies as well.
- [58:41]
Alex Clark
What type of exercise is best for people with autoimmune and Hashimoto's?
- [58:46]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
It's not marathon running.
- [58:47]
Alex Clark
Yeah.
- [58:48]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Generally speaking, people tend to feel like they need to exercise more and eat less when they have Hashimoto's, especially if they're putting on weight. But that can actually backfire because some of the aerobic exercise can be catabolic. So it further breaks us down. A lot of times I'm recommending exercise that's anabolic. So this would be things that build you up such as weightlifting, yoga, any kind of stress reducing exercise like Tai chi or Pilates can be very, very helpful.
- [59:22]
Alex Clark
Okay, cool. I'm doing Pilates a couple times a week. And then I am just now hiring a personal trainer so that I can start doing some weightlifting, which great idea, I've never done in my life. My audience right now is gasping, clutching their pearls because I've always been like, no. But I feel like it's important, so I'm going to start.
- [59:41]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I think those are really great things to do. The other consideration is you want to make sure that you build your way up. So if you exercise and you're like, I feel like death and I can't exercise again for seven weeks, you probably overdid it, right?
- [59:56]
Alex Clark
Yeah.
- [59:56]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
So you want to do the amount of exercise where at the end of it you're like, you know, that was a good workout. I could probably do that one more time today. Okay. Because that'll give you, you know, just the right amount and then you can build your way up. So sometimes people, I see themselves like, they get really excited about exercise and then they exercise and then they never do it again. And that could really backfire.
- [60:17]
Alex Clark
What do you think about people taking Ozempic while also having Hashimoto's?
- [60:21]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
One of my colleagues, McCall McPherson, has been utilizing low dose Ozempic for Hashimoto's and she sees a lot of benefits with inflammation and thyroid antibodies and weight loss for people that haven't had a lot of success with other methods. So I'm interested in it more as like a microdosed peptide versus like the mega doses that people are being put on. I think when they get put on these really, really high doses without addressing everything else, then they can get in themselves in a lot of trouble because then they start losing hair, they start losing muscle mass. And of course, it's kind of like I would address all the other things first. So I would address the thyroid antibodies and the thyroid hormones and all the nutrient deficiencies. Because if you're just like, you're trying just to take something without addressing all the other things, you're gonna get off of it and then all of your, you know, symptoms and all of your weight's going to come creeping back up.
- [61:16]
Alex Clark
How does stress impact Hashimoto's and what are the best stress management techniques for patients?
- [61:22]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Stress can be a huge driver in autoimmune disease, especially Hashimoto's and Graves disease. There was a case report of a woman in a wheelchair who was thrown down the stairs by somebody, and she developed Graves disease soon after. And that was like One of the first case reports that was suggested to make that connection, but I see that connection all of the time. So we know that stress really depletes our internal defense defenses and that our stress hormones on our thyroid hormones really talk to one another. And so stress reduction is gonna be a really big key to addressing your Hashimoto's. For some people, this might mean you need to get a lot more sleep. One of the fastest ways to really crash your system is sleep deprivation. And just being more mindful about getting your 8, 10, 12 hours of sleep, however much you need is gonna be the solution for you. For other people this might be like drama in their life. They might need to address that. Right. For some people it might be trauma. So something that happened to you a really long time ago, but it's still causing you low grade inflammation. This might be really important to address. For some people, stress comes from blood sugar imbalances. So getting more protein and fat, reducing your processed food, processed carb intake can help you with that stress response. And then for others it's like, it's more of a mindset issue. Right. So it's like getting rid of the perfectionist tendencies. Really stop stopping to rush, just changing your lifestyle to give yourself a little bit more space and grace. I love utilizing, as far as stress reduction strategies. I love using affirmations, I love prayer, I love uplifting music, kind of cutting out like I would say any kind of fear porn. So if you're watching like CNN news or any, any kind of news channels that are just constantly keeping you on edge, really getting away from that, maybe listening to some uplifting music or reading scripture or doing something that you find really uplifting.
- [63:24]
Alex Clark
Yeah.
- [63:24]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Can really shift your mindset and take you out of that fight or flight into like thrive, rest and digest state. And then my favorite method is pleasurable activities. So just doing things you enjoy, whether that's going into a store and browsing, going to a yoga class, sitting by a pool, playing with puppies, playing with kittens, what, whatever, whatever really brings you joy. Just making a mindful effort to, to do that.
- [63:51]
Alex Clark
Are there specific environmental toxins that you recommend? Hashimoto's patients avoid fluoride that's been added.
- [63:56]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
To our water supply. You know, public health officials are always looking out for us and they're like, oh, we're going to help people out, we're going to give them fluoride for their teeth. Unfortunately, excessive doses of fluoride can also suppress thyroid function. And so getting a good quality filter for the water that you're drinking can be a really big game changer.
- [64:16]
Alex Clark
Okay. I've been fluoride free for a couple years and maybe about six months ago I had ran out of my fluoride toothpaste. I didn't realize I was running out. I thought I had an extra. I didn't. The only toothpaste I had at home and it was like, you know, getting ready for bed was old fluoride toothpaste. So I used it. Then I was like lazy about going to the store and getting my, you know, non fluoride toothpaste or whatever. And so I was using that for a few days and oh my gosh, the flare up I had was so severe and I thought it's this freaking fluoride. I bet. So that's interesting that you say that. So absolutely no fluoride toothpaste for Hashimoto's?
- [64:50]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I would avoid it if you can.
- [64:52]
Alex Clark
Yeah.
- [64:52]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I mean, there's alternatives for keeping your teeth healthy. I know hydroxyapatite can be very helpful. Putting that into your. Yeah, they've been putting that in toothpaste.
- [65:02]
Alex Clark
And I love the zebra toothpaste and it's xylitol, so it's not hydroxyapatite or fluoride. So I really love that my listeners know that. I love that. How can somebody differentiate between Hashimoto symptoms and perimenopause symptoms?
- [65:15]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
There can be a big overlap with those symptoms and sometimes Hashimoto's can make perimenopause worse and perimenopause can make Hashimoto's worse. But I would say, generally speaking, women in perimenopause, they're going to have big impacts on their menstrual cycles. So they might see their menstrual cycles getting shorter and heavier. Of course this can also be related to Hashimoto's. They might also see having more weight gain in perimenopause. They might have issues with insomnia and anxiety. Where I would say in Hashimoto's you're more likely to have anxiety, but not as much insomnia. In the Hashimoto's you're probably gonna be sleeping a lot and you're gonna be sleeping any place, anywhere. Where I would say, probably the biggest red flag for me would be the insomnia that could be related to perimenopause. But this is why I advocate for like testing and not guessing. So if you are in that beautiful 35 plus age range, maybe even 32 plus, let's really focus on testing the thyroid hormones. And let's really focus testing your progesterone levels and maybe doing a Dutch test to see where. Where things are at for you. Because perimenopause can also cause you to need more thyroid hormones. So there could be more than one thing that's out of balance.
- [66:33]
Alex Clark
How do you counsel patients who just feel completely overwhelmed by a Hashimoto's diagnosis?
- [66:40]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
I really encourage them to take it one day at a time. I feel like people that tend to be overwhelmed oftentimes have adrenal issues. And so really giving them a step by step plan can be very helpful. And it's making them a calendar where we go through. Okay, we're gonna do just one thing a day. Maybe today we're gonna get rid of gluten, right? Maybe we're gonna figure out how to replace this in your diet here. Let's just add in more protein so then your blood sugar gets more balanced. And then really helping them with that anxiety and overwhelm, which is kind of like, I feel like it's part of the illness itself to feel anxious and overwhelmed as well as, you know, dealing with something new. Getting that balanced, you're going to feel a lot better. You know, getting people's brain function back on track can be very, very helpful. Brain fog is a really big symptom that people with Hashimoto's have. And sometimes just getting them less brain fogged means that they become less overwhelmed and less anxious and then they can focus better. So one of the things I found incredibly helpful for brain fog is going to be a supplement known as carnitine. And that can really bring back people's brain function in a few days.
- [67:59]
Alex Clark
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, and it could be physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? Effy Love, what is the name of both of your books and what will people get out of them?
- [68:12]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
My first book that I wrote is Hashimoto's the Root Cause, and it's focused on lifestyle interventions and a lot of the research that I did to get myself into remission, and then my most popular book is Hashimoto's Protocol. And this is a 90 day plan. It's a step by step approach that focuses on supporting your detox pathways, supporting your stress response, and then supporting your gut health. So it takes away the overwhelm because I tell you which foods to get rid of, which foods to add, and then specific tests to do, as well as specific supplements and lifestyle strategies to utilize. So it's very protocol. Based.
- [68:50]
Alex Clark
Yeah, I love that it's 90 days that, like, gives people a really good, like, sense of, you know, I can do this. It doesn't feel like forever. Like, let me just try this out. Let's see if I feel better. It's not that long. You know, I think that's a really good idea to kind of go through Hashimoto's protocol by Isabella Wentz. Dr. Wentz, thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.
- [69:11]
Dr. Isabella Wentz
Thank you so much for having me. It's just been such an honor and a pleasure to be here with you.
- [69:17]
Alex Clark
If you liked this episode, you're really gonna like another episode I did on autoimmune with Dr. Josh Red. Just search his name and my name. Wherever you listen to podcasts, please leave a five star review. Let me know the episode that made you a fan of Culture Apothecary. I love reading that. Follow the show on Instagram at Culture Apothec and then me, Ealalex Clark. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture. Twice a week, I've got expert guests who bring their own unique remedy to do just that. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.