The Content-ification of Wedding Culture

Summary

Culture Study Podcast: The Content-ification of Wedding Culture

Host: Anne Helen Petersen
Guest: Amanda Montell (author & host, Sounds Like a Cult)
Date: April 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolution, pressures, and contradictions of contemporary wedding culture, particularly its transformation into a form of personal and social "content." Anne and Amanda, both media-savvy and personally invested in the topic, explore why even the most resistant individuals often end up having weddings, how consumerism and digital culture have overtaken tradition and religion, and the complex emotions people have about the rituals, aesthetics, and expectations surrounding weddings today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do People “Give In” and Have a Wedding?

• Amanda's Personal Experience (00:50)

  • Repulsed by wedding conformity but ended up having a big event “wholeheartedly.”
  • Framed her event as “my dog’s birthday party” to cope with the pageantry and pressure.
  • Enjoys theatrical parties, but struggles with the cultural sanctioning of weddings.
  • “Unfortunately, consumerism has replaced religion as the main reason to, like, do all these little bells and whistles that I really resisted doing.” (02:31, Amanda)

• Anne’s Reflection (03:55)

  • The pressure now is to have “bells and whistles of your own creation”; indie quirkiness has become its own expectation.
  • For non-party people, the wedding can reactivate trauma, cost money they don’t have, and force unwanted family engagement.

2. The Escalation of Wedding Culture

• Princess Diana’s Wedding and Social Media (08:19, Amanda)

  • The transition from intimate family events to spectacle, driven by “mutual escalation” (11:08) and the visibility of weddings via Pinterest/social media.
  • The rise of the “wedding planner” as a gatekeeper and content creator for social channels.
  • “There is a lot of ego here. There’s a huge industry… social media and the visibility of other people’s weddings. Fault.” (10:44, Amanda)

• The Role of Churches and Tradition (12:38, Anne)

  • Church weddings came with built-in coordinators and made logistics seamless; now, with secular venues, much more is outsourced and commercialized.

3. Weddings, Community, and Cost

• The Value of Community vs. Spectacle (21:24, Anne)

  • Modern weddings often center more on “the Instagram version” than guest experience.
  • The cost, both to couples and guests, has escalated, making attendance prohibitive.
  • “If you don’t want a big wedding, it is so possible to throw just like a much smaller, more intimate, more mindful… event where the word ‘wedding’ isn’t even uttered until the day of.” (24:44, Amanda)

• Alternative Models & Mindfulness (25:16, Anne)

  • Examples of destination or hybrid weddings that center both personal experience and local community gatherings.

4. Tradition as Justification

• Why Cling to ‘Tradition’? (26:41, Amanda)
  • Refers to a study: “The reason why it was important to them to throw a wedding in this traditional sense was because that seemed like it was setting them up for a traditional marriage, which they seemed to use as shorthand for a marriage that was secure, stable, successful.” (26:52)
  • The “illusory vision” of the past as a means to secure an imagined stable future.
  • Economic changes, women marrying later, and shifting gender roles have further complicated the landscape—and costs.

5. Child-Free Weddings and Shifting Social Norms

• Why ‘No Kids’ Weddings? (29:29, Amanda & Anne)
  • Tied to ideological divides, boundaries, and new definitions of “celebration.”
  • Removing kids can be about party vibe (32:03, Anne), logistics, and cost (35:14, Melody).
  • “If you’re throwing a party... you can choose not to have kids there.” (33:02, Anne)

6. Timeless Aesthetics: Dog Whistle for a Certain Class

• Interrogating the “Timeless” Trend (36:04, Amanda)
  • “Timeless is a euphemism for like some type of elitist bullshit... a dog whistle… a red flag.” (36:14, Amanda)
  • Subdued luxury and avoidance of visible trends are just another genre of performativity.
  • “Tackiness is showing off your money… [timeless] has to be subdued luxury.” (39:18, Anne)

7. Content-ification and Social Media’s Influence

• Is There a Pushback? (45:18, Amanda)
  • Weddings as “content engines”—pressure to document and share.
  • New trend of minimal or strategic posting (“one carousel”) as a reaction to over-contentification.
  • “If I were not to share this on social media… what would I choose? What would be important to me?” (46:13, Amanda)
  • Giant photo dumps never accessed; more meaning in candid, authentic moments.

8. The Multiplication of Outfits and Second Looks

• Why So Many Wedding Looks? (49:27)
  • Amanda had three; practical (dance-friendly), performative, and partly for social media.
  • Guiding principle: “If it baffles you, fuck it.” (50:56, Anne)
  • Alternatives: thrifted or non-wedding dresses, focus on personality and comfort over trend.

9. Bachelor/Bachelorette Parties: More Extravagant as Weddings Are Less Transformative

• Inverse Relationship Between Life Changes and Party Spectacle (54:18, Listener/Anna)
  • Modern bachelor/ette parties are massive celebrations, even if the “transition” they mark is minimal.
  • “Bachelorette party… did not exist as a marketable concept until the early 1980s… As women became more liberated and financially independent, these parties became more of a friendship celebration.” (55:29, Amanda)
  • Most meaningful events are those that recentre friendship—often thwarted by logistics, cost, and group incompatibility.

10. The Loss of Ritual and Search for Meaning

• Re-ritualization in a Secular, Consumerist Age (61:53, Anne)
  • The power and need for rituals, and how bachelorette and wedding events attempt (sometimes successfully) to fill that void.
  • Final advice: discern what actually matters to you and your partner, “actually listen to what’s going on in your head.” (63:10, Anne)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Consumerism has replaced religion as the main reason to, like, do all these little bells and whistles.”
  —Amanda Montell (02:31)

• “The pressure is to have bells and whistles of your own creation. It’s turned in on itself, 100% magnified into this indie, quirky bird.”
  —Anne Helen Peterson (03:55)

• “Mutual escalation… mutually assured destruction, self-destruction of how you escalate weddings.”
  —Anne Helen Peterson (11:08)

• “Timeless is a euphemism for elitist bullshit. It’s a dog whistle… it’s a red flag.”
  —Amanda Montell (36:14)

• “If it baffles you, fuck it.”
  —Anne Helen Peterson (50:56)

• “Bachelorette parties are now more about celebrating friendship and less about mourning the loss of freedom. The most meaningful ones aren’t compulsory—they’re genuine.”
  —Amanda Montell (57:17)

• “Consumerism replaced religion so smoothly as the generations went by, as the kind of justification for why we do this, that I didn’t even, like, notice why I was creeped out by the whole thing.”
  —Amanda Montell (63:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50: Amanda’s personal history and resistance to wedding culture
• 03:55: Pressure of personalizing weddings in the Instagram era
• 08:19-12:38: Escalation from intimate to spectacle weddings: Princess Diana and the rise of wedding planners
• 21:24: Weddings and the meaning of community vs. spectacle
• 26:41: The myth of “tradition” justifying big weddings
• 29:29: Origins and reasoning behind child-free weddings
• 36:04: What does “timeless” actually mean in wedding discourse?
• 45:18: Social media & weddings: Contentification and pushback
• 49:27: Second (and third!) wedding outfits—the logic and peer pressure
• 54:18: Extravagant bachelor/ette parties vs. the reality of modern partnerships
• 61:53: The role of rituals and how to create meaningful ones

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Final Thoughts

Anne and Amanda urge listeners to interrogate the scripts, pressures, and aesthetics of wedding culture—recognizing the role of both consumerist and algorithmic incentives, and the genuine desire for meaning and connection beneath it all. Their main refrain: discard what doesn’t resonate and focus on rituals and celebrations that feel true to you.

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For More

• Amanda Montell’s books & Instagram [@mandamontel] for wedding photos and more.
• Anne Helen Petersen’s columns, newsletter, and social handles in show notes.

Transcript

[Anne Helen Peterson]

This is the Culture Study podcast. And I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

[Amanda Montell]

And I'm Amanda Montel, host of the Sounds Like a Cult podcast and author of books including the Age of Magical Overthinking.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

We got so many questions for this episode, but one of my favorites, and I actually laughed when I read this was literally, why do people give in and have a wedding? And we're not talking necessarily about why do people get married. It's more a lot of people don't want to have a wedding or are disinterested, neutral and then just like as this person said, give in and have a wedding. So you had one last year. So I wanted your answer.

[Amanda Montell]

This was me. This was absolutely me. I was repulsed by the conformity and consumerism and patriarchal pressures. I was like, I'm not doing that. And up until the day of the extravagant event that I did indeed throw wholeheartedly, I was referring to it as my dog's birthday party. Just as like a mental gymnastic act. I was like, this is not a wedding. I would not go to these lengths for a wedding. But I did. I did. And I can talk anecdotally about why I did it. Yeah, I am a person who greatly enjoys pageantry and festivity. I take it upon myself as a hobby to throw involved parties at my house for my friends. My husband and I. Well, we joke that this is independently a hobby for us both Halloween parties. But it's kind of a thing like you have to do it as a couple because if he were just like a single man throwing like this over the top Halloween party, it would suddenly be like kind of creepy. But as a couple, we, I mean, last year we threw an event called Club Vampire. We flew in our demon twink DJ from Brooklyn. He's a friend. So this was like a love themed party that the culture see sanctions, you know, and that felt like a negative, not a positive for me, the cultural sanctioning. So I proposed to my cisgender male husband. Well then he was my boyfriend. You know how it goes. And that felt like a good start in terms of sort of subverting many of the cultural norms that give me the proverbial ick, I am bisexual. I wanted, I didn't want to. I didn't want to be perceived as this like blushing bride, you know, this like Stepford Y bride that is portrayed in so much media. But I think, long story short, from all of the interviews that I have now conducted with married friends of various backgrounds, sexualities, as well as experts, sociologists who Study wedding culture, bachelorette party history, et cetera. My understanding is that there is just such an incredibly long legacy and so many societal incentives to throw this event, which has changed so much, like the definition of what's traditional has evolved, is evolving all the time, that it feels like the right thing to do. And unfortunately, consumerism has replaced religion as the main reason to, like, do all these little bells and whistles that I really resisted doing. I had bells, I had whistles, but I feel like they were of my own creation, as opposed to this, like, forced, stilted thing that Pinterest incentivized me to do.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, but here's the thing is, I think now the pressure is to have bells and whistles of your own creation. For sure. It's turned in on itself, 100% magnified into this, like, indie, quirky bird, right?

[Amanda Montell]

Like, how dare you.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

The brand.

[Amanda Montell]

100%. I mean, and I'm not. I'm not going to defend it. Like, I.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, I don't.

[Amanda Montell]

I am like other girls. Like, let's be very clear, I am like other girls, but I am like an earnest former theater kid at the end of the day, and I love to throw theatrical experiences for my freaking friends and family.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I love that we start this anecdotally because I think in your instance, it absolutely makes sense. In the instances that make me feel really sad for the person is people who do not like throwing parties, for sure, they do not have the money or want to spend the money. They have really complicated and traumatic relations with their family that they have to reactivate in order to do this.

[Amanda Montell]

This part.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

They are maybe still learning their best communication style with their partner and spouse to be. And this actually, like, troubles it before you actually even get to be spouses 100%. Like, those are the things that I'm like, you could give in. And I think, you know, the last 10 years, I would say that we have the, like, not just the small courthouse wedding, but, like, just different types of weddings have been repopularized, I think.

[Amanda Montell]

I think so, too. Obviously, media portrayals of weddings have really established, like, what they should look like. And so I. I mean, I do think it's important for kind of like smaller, less opulent, more realistic, more accessible types of weddings to, you know, come to the fore in media, but they're not as good for, you know, movies.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

So, you know, I actually think, like, the vows section of the New York Times, for all of, like, the, I don't know, the New York Timesness of it, it often does highlight Kind of fun. Different ways that people have gotten married, different outfits that people have worn, different ages that people get married, all of those things. But we got so many questions. I feel like we have to dive in so that we can get to all of that.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. And I promise I have more than anecdotal bullshit to bring to the table. But my wedding was. It was. And you know what? It was so. It was so fun. I wore pink. Everyone else wore white. I wore butterfly wings. It was ridiculous. It was so ridiculous. I had a great. I had a great day at my dog's birthday party.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and we will. We will link to the Instagram post where you posted some pictures, because I think that your joy is palpable in these photos. Like, you are not a bride who is, like, just smiling and, like, my makeup is melting off like, you're having a good time. So it's like, See, like, you can feel the, like, on my own termsness, just.

[Amanda Montell]

But sadly, my own terms do align with, oh, this is so. This is so regrettable. My. My doing. Doing a party on my own terms sadly, did align ultimately with having a wedding. God damn it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

God damn it. So lots of big feelings about this. Some people were like, how dare you frame, like, I don't know, contemporary wedding culture as, like, weird? Wedding culture is always weird. It is. It's totally weird. It's like, yeah, rituals are weird and they are ever changing, and they are contextual and they are culturally specific, and hopefully we'll be able to dive into all of those things. Yeah. So the first question comes from Elena, and Melody's gonna read it.

[Melody Raul]

When did wedding culture change? I'm a millennial woman who grew up with a very proper mother in Texas, so I know something about etiquette and hostessing. But even fancy weddings in the 80s were nothing like what is often considered standard today. For inst. My mom didn't need an event coordinator, but my wedding would have been a disaster without one. Is it as simple as Princess Diana's wedding?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I have some thoughts on this, but I want to hear you first.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. I mean, I learned from a scholar named Beth Montimuro, who's a sociologist and wrote a book about bridal showers and bachelorette parties, that Princess Diana's wedding and the, like, huge media treatment of that did have a lot to do with. With weddings going from this, like, sort of intimate family affair to this, like, extravagant thing that you would want others to see and appreciate. This sort of, like, pseudo royal wedding thing, which is cringe, too, because, like, we're never going to be able to pull off a royal wedding like any of us. I mean, the economic boom of the 80s also supported that. But then I think things really changed with the advent of Pinterest. Like that made other people's weddings visible. There was a lot of mutual escalation on social media where it's like you see someone do something, now you have to do the thing and then your bridesmaid has to do the thing. And you know, we are consumerists, we approach problems with additive solutions. You know, like that's what we do here in the US of A. And yeah, I think it was really the social media of it all. And then of course the industry snowballed and so now, yeah, if you don't have a background in event production, you're gonna need to hire a wedding planner. But now there's like a wedding planner type. And we almost hired a wedding planner and then we were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because my understanding, and I'm sure there are exceptions of this, but I have learned throughout many conversations that wedding planners tend to make it all about them oftentimes and they just really want the best marketing assets for their business. And so, you know, I was interviewing this wedding planner and you know, she sent the contract, we redlined it because like there was this, you know, clause in there that said that she would be allowed to use all of the wedding photos that like my friend took in her advertising, like in perpetuity. But my wedding was at my parents house and you know, there were gonna be some photos where you could probably tell like where they live. And like I write about cults and I have some enemies in the world and I was just like, I don't want, I don't want the Scientologist to know where my parents live. You know what I mean? And she was just like, the TLDR was like she didn't care and she was like, this is the contract and I'm me and you're like so lucky to get to work with me. And I was like, okay, never mind. So, so yeah, I think there's a lot of ego here. There's a huge industry. But the long and the short of it is that it's, it's social media and the visibility of other people's weddings. Fault.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I love. What was the phrase that you use? Like the mutual escalation. Like the thing that came to my mind was like mutually assured destruction, self destruction of like how when you escalate because it's not just before you could find notes on people's weddings like, or see other people's ideas that they use to execute their weddings. Like there were bridal magazines, right? And you saw announcements in the newspaper all the time of what? Like a wedding where a wedding was held and you saw their wedding dress, even if it was a black and white picture, whatever. But the ability to see just like normies like you. And not just like a dozen normies, we're talking like thousands of normies all over. And the replication and like that looks at like that feeling like you must do something. The perfunctory ness of it. Okay, my theory, and this goes to my experience with predominantly Christian weddings, I think, and like my parents generation of their friends, which were prominent predominantly Christian weddings. When you got married in the church, there was always someone at the church who. This was, their job was to run the building. They were a de facto wedding coordinator. And they came with the rental of the church. And if you were getting married in the church and then your reception was in the church's reception hall, think about the ease. Like you don't need a wedding coordinator for that, right?

[Amanda Montell]

No, so true.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like people just move. And then you might have a caterer, but different story. Like that's very different than having a wedding coordinator. And the mother of the bride did some of these duties in various capacities. And I think now when so much of like the, the weight is transferred, the planning weight is transferred to usually the bride. Right. And the bride has to outsource it somehow. And they are oftentimes not getting married in a church.

[Amanda Montell]

Right? No, there is a lot to manage. That's what I'm saying. It's like if you. So we threw our wedding at, I mean, my dog's birthday party in my parents backyard. And we thought that would make everything easier.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, harder.

[Amanda Montell]

No, no, no.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

You have to, have to turn it into a wedding.

[Amanda Montell]

Turn it into a wedding venue.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Exactly.

[Amanda Montell]

Now fortunately, we have, you know, friends and community members who have like different skills and connects they could bring to the table who were like, you know, pulling favors and we, we were able to skirt the wedding industry like quite significantly. But that took so much effort and bandwidth and we enjoy that type of challenge, he and I.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

My, my. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

You okay, here.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

You like logistics? I also like logistics.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, well, he really likes logistics. And I, so he, we, we had a pretty complimentary division of labor. I don't mind logistics. I, I'm, I'm sensitive logistics because I throw live events for my work. And so like, I know kind of what needs to get done. But if you have no background and you don't enjoy it, of course you're gonna need someone to, to do it for you. And, and the, the amount of money that they charge is unbelievable. But like what, what is, what is your choice? And then if they're, and again the ego thing, if they're in charge of it, then they're probably definitely going to push you in a certain direction so that the end product ends up being kind of cookie cutter, more or less.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And what they are good at managing and have experience managing. That's such a good point. And I just, I just keep thinking of like, you know, Jeannie who managed the like events at a church or something like that. Like that was probably her part time job and like she did it for what was called pin money. Right. Like just like a little extra cash.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And there was cookie cutter ness to that too. Right. Because it was the limitations of the spaces. Of course.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. And they really do. I mean the reason why I've analyzed wedding culture through a cult lens so much is because like they're really on top of like the rituals and the financial exploitation or whatever. There really is this strange secret like conveyor belt that they put you on and make you feel like is is special, but it's actually the least special thing ever. So like, you know, when I was in early talks with this wedding planner, I was kind of, you know, describing our vibe and I was like, yeah, I don't really, you know, I'm really kind of creeped out by those like highly produced wedding videos that like, that the Mormons do really well. I was like, I don't want one of those. I want, you know, I want to document the day, but I want it to feel like a little more nostalgic, you know, like maybe I could just have like one of my videographer friends like be in charge of a Super 8 or whatever. And she was like, oh my God, oh my God. It's so funny that you say that. I actually, now that I think about it, I know this incredible super eight and dad cam, husband, wife, partner, they're so sweet. I could totally suggest them. And I was like, oh my God, that sounds great. And then I look it up and it's $10,000 and this, you know, I'm sure this woman is getting a kickback or whatever. In the end. I literally just paid a friend of a friend to take Super 8 footage and I paid another friend who's an editor 500 bucks to edit it together. And it was like, great.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

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[Melody Raul]

We are.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Which we are.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, I like that.

[Melody Raul]

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[Anne Helen Peterson]

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's not like you're damp, you're damp for the rest of the day.

[Amanda Montell]

Right.

[Melody Raul]

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[Anne Helen Peterson]

You know what that's called? It's called wicking.

[Melody Raul]

Yes, thank you. I know what wicking is.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

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[Amanda Montell]

It's about expressing people.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Right.

[Amanda Montell]

Maybe even online more than in person sometimes.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yes, yes. It's about like, what the Instagram version of the wedding, the spectacle of the wedding is going to look like and not what the experience is.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And then also not a ton of thought about, like, the cost to a community. Like, what happens when attending a wedding becomes so expensive that no matter what the experience is, is it doesn't feel, quote, unquote, worth it. Right. Yeah. And different rules about how you should show up to this wedding and what you should be wearing and who you can and cannot bring and +1 or no +1, and where you're sitting, all of these things. The most interesting conversations I've seen about this actually are on like, Priya Parker's Instagram where she highlights weddings where they have done something incredibly mindful about making it feel like something that is a group of people coming together to celebrate the love between two people.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. I mean, you can literally. I did this for like our welcome drinks. Lol. The like, all the events you like, are coerced into throwing throughout the weekend. But again, I, I am that bitch. So ultimately I did do the welcome drinks. Anywho, our venue was $150 and it fit 70 people in it. And we like, full blown could have done the wedding in there. Like, you know, I think we, we brought our own mocktails. And then there was like, you know, spent maybe fifteen hundred dollars on, on alcohol. And I was like, after the end of that night, I was like, this could have been it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Right?

[Amanda Montell]

Great.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

You're like, I saw the people.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, it was fantastic. This literally could have been it. You know, our two best friends gave speeches. We, we, we dressed up. I was like, this felt kind of like its own wedding.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Totally.

[Amanda Montell]

So I think, yeah, you can really, really simply just not use the word wedding when you're booking stuff. You can totally, you can totally just say you're throwing a special event and I think, you know, have a conversation with yourself and your partner about, like, how do we want to feel on the day? You know, what do we want our loved ones to feel? How much, how much do we really, like, really in our heart of hearts want to spend? How much do we want other people to spend? Now, I don't think it's like morally inferior to want to like spend a Bunch of money. And I mean, it is. If you are inclined to over the top celebration, then like, this is an excuse to do that and to, to make your friends do that. And I, you know, destination weddings are on the rise. There was like a Grand View Research poll that found that, you know, destination weddings are growing at almost 17% rate annually. And that is certainly a way to like offset the cost to your guests.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But I feel like that does it. That like by offsetting the cost to your guests, it does create this complicated scenario. Right.

[Amanda Montell]

For sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's like, what, now your guests on a budget just like can't celebrate your love?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Right, Right.

[Amanda Montell]

A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I'm not recommending that. I'm reflecting that it is happening. But yeah, no, there are a lot of pressures online and offline to have a wedding, but like, if you don't wanna. It is so possible to throw just like a much smaller, more intimate, more mindful, as you said, event where like the word wedding isn't even uttered until the day of.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I, a friend of mine, they just went on like a fun trip to Iceland and then brought their wedding dresses as to women and got married and then. And had like a photographer there. Right. And then they had like fun celebrations that were just, you know, at like a big bar or a community hall in the two places where both of them are from. So they got to celebrate with like so many people that mattered to them in like localized those. So those people could come. Yeah. And also have like a really precious moment that was on their terms.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's interesting the way that the wedding industry, but also just like kind of general discourse about weddings being traditional has justified like throwing the big extravagant wedding. I. There. There's this article that I. This like, scholarly article that I read that felt so. Felt so validating to me in all of my icks and questions about weddings. It's called traditional inequalities and inequalities of tradition, gender, weddings and whiteness. And when asking, you know, brides particularly, like, why are you doing this? The study's authors found that tradition was repeatedly used when talking to actually both the husband and the wife, heterosexual couples.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Interesting.

[Amanda Montell]

And the reason why it was important to them to throw a wedding in this traditional sense was because that seemed like it was setting them up for a traditional marriage, which they seemed to use as shorthand for a marriage that was secure, stable, successful. Yeah. And had children connected with an imagined past when these elements were believed to be inherent in society. And family bonds. So it was almost like if I throw a wedding with traditional elements. And again, those change all the time, because in the 70s, it was like, throw the wedding at the church, and now it's like, throw it at a hotel and like, you know, ice sculpture. That's really 90s whatever. But it's like, if you do all this, then you'll be connected to some kind of, like, illusory vision of a time when, like, husbands and wives were really connected and secure. That's. That's the. What this article seemed to be intimating.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Total imaginary time. Yeah, I just thinking of, like, all the people who got shotgun wedding. Like, people who got married just so that they could have sex. Like, just like, different. Like. And those weddings are like, absolutely part of that traditional wedding because they were also following these scripts, right?

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, great. We want to, you know, reflect a marriage from a time when, like, marital rape was not a crime. Like, I. I don't know that.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Totally.

[Amanda Montell]

I don't want to. Yeah, yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And like, that. That women, their parents had to pay for the wedding because, like, oh, well, the women couldn't have checking accounts or, like, credit cards, so they certainly weren't paid for it.

[Amanda Montell]

Right. And everybody was really young. So that's the other thing, too. Is that, like, another reason why weddings are more expensive now is because people are getting married later, you know, And. And. And that's like this catch 22 as well, because a wedding and marriage used to symbolize, like, the beginning of your adulthood. And so it was like this small affair because you couldn't afford anything. And, like, yeah, your parents were paying for it, but, like, you know, it wasn't typical to pay for this extravagance. But now people are getting married later, and it's more customary to pay for more of it yourself. And so they're getting more expensive. But then it creates a situation where some people feel like they can't even get engaged or get married because they can't afford a wedding. So it's like, actually, really, wedding culture is halting people from, like, unionizing their love, like, really backwards, actually.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, next question is another one that we get a lot of, and I hear people complain about a lot, and I have a very simple explanation for it. But I'm sorry, I'm setting it up. I'm giving it. I'm giving us so much hype for this question. Yeah, let's hear it, Johnny.

[Amanda Montell]

When did no kid weddings become so popular? I've always loved the little kids Running around in their fancy outfits.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And it was a favorite memory of

[Amanda Montell]

mine from my own wedding. It seems so not representative of the community that loves and supports you. Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What's your theory?

[Amanda Montell]

I think it's partially because there is this sort of ideological divide between millennials who have kids and millennials who don't. And it's becoming.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Oh yes.

[Amanda Montell]

More accept to not have kids. And there's a lot of, you know, justified defenses and defensiveness around not having kids and. Yeah. And there's also, you know, increased conversation about boundaries, you know, with your friends and family members, which can be good conversations. And also kind of used to justify a little bit of, you know, wedding centric narcissism.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, but. Okay, no, see, I actually don't. It's a little bit wedding centric narcissism. Narcissism. But here's the reality. When you bring your kids to the wedding.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And you don't have childcare, which a lot of people don't have childcare at a wedding because you're traveling to the wedding or whatever. Right. Yeah. You gotta go home early. You can't hang out. You can't hang out with your friends.

[Amanda Montell]

Right.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And as someone who. Who doesn't have kids, who has lots of friends who do have kids, there is just a very distinct change in the way that we hang out. When you have to get back to a sitter at a certain time or you have to, like you. You have to go home. It just changes the character.

[Amanda Montell]

Right. But doesn't that mean that, like you're gonna. If. Okay, what if you have kids, period, then you can't come to the wedding. Like.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What? No, no, no, no. Sorry. I don't mean getting back to the sitter so much. I mean more like if your kids are at the wedding and you need to bail out at 7:35. Oh. So that you can get them home to get them to sleep or whatever. You know what I mean? Your kids at the. Unless you have a bailout plan, which sometimes is like one. One person in our partnership has to go home and take care of the kids. Right.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, I'm now wondering too, if it's like people. Some people. Okay. The child free weddings. That. I've actually never been to one. But I know people who've thrown them. I think they wanted their wedding to be like really debauched. They like, they wanted people to get like turned, you know?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm talking about. They want to have like. They don't want little kids doing the hokey pokey in the middle of the dance floor.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

They want all the parents, like, all the adults out there.

[Amanda Montell]

I think. I think that's just a vibe. I think that's just a vibe for the wedding. I was. I was getting too deep with it. I think I was just like, oh, there's like, you know, this, like, righteousness of, like, I. I do not have kids.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That's true, too.

[Amanda Montell]

I don't want to see your kids on my day. And that's. That's so valid. I. Let me see. I had. Yeah, well, I had a flower girl, but she was two and a half, and she's my friend. Okay. Like, yeah, this is an intergenerational friendship. Like, I. She was my friend, and I wanted her at the wedding. She. She's iconic. Like, she brought. She. She was probably somehow the most current person at this wedding.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and here's the other thing is that some people just don't like kids. And I think that we are normalizing people saying, like, I don't like kids. I don't like having kids around. And I know that, like, there are some people. We've had this conversation in my newsletter a lot that think that, like, you're not allowed to say that, but you can if you're throwing a party and there is a type of person, a.k.a.

[Amanda Montell]

yeah, no, I mean, I didn't want. Yeah, there were lots of different hanging out. Yeah. I mean, there. I mean. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think we had. I don't think we had a single Republican at my wedding.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

See, I will also say that old school weddings, again, because they were often held at a religious institution. Those religious institutions also have nursery spaces.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like just the basement where you can send the freaking kids and if you pay for some sitters who are there. And, like, liabilities considerations were slightly different. Right. Like, there used to be ways that you could, like, shunt the kids in a way that you cannot any longer.

[Amanda Montell]

And I feel like it was also more traditional at a certain time in the past to have the wedding ceremony in the morning, and now they're more often at night or in the late afternoon. And so then people are, like, partying into the wee hours. But like, the church wedding with the nursery, they're not, like, dropping acid. Like, there's. There's so many. I mean, my wedding was, like, pretty.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No one's on shrooms at the church.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, like, my. There was a lot of shrooms at my wedding. And you know that. Yeah. Like, koa's. Daughter. She didn't do shroom. She's two and a half. But she doesn't need them. We're all trying to get on her level. That was the thing. I think we all want. We all want to be the kids. We all want to become the children.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and that actually, I think, like. How do I put this? Like, because weddings have also become more about the party and less about the ritual. Less about the church ceremony. Right. And more about, like, let's have fun together and like, have a live band and like, everyone's going to dance. It is about this opportunity to act like children.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And if you are also responsible for children, sometimes that makes it harder.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Great. We arrived at a great place.

[Melody Raul]

No, I have a really basic interjection here because I did not have children at my wedding. They're extra mouths to feed. They're extra. They're extra mouths to feed, and they're extra butts in chairs. It would have, like, significantly increased the price of our wedding had we included children because there would have been like 40 extra bodies.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, yeah. No, that's so fair. You're like, you're only half a person. I don't want to have to pay for a full chair.

[Melody Raul]

Exactly. It was a space and food issue for us.

[Amanda Montell]

That's so, that's so, so fair.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Now we're going to talk about aesthetics. One of my favorite things, this comes from Sarah.

[Amanda Montell]

Why are people so obsessed with weddings? Dresses, hairstyles, flowers, table settings being timeless. I know that we look back at weddings from 10 years ago and we think they're a bit cringe style wise,

[Anne Helen Peterson]

but when we look back at them

[Amanda Montell]

20 years later, the timestamp stuff is half the fun. Is it because they're so expensive that

[Anne Helen Peterson]

we feel we can't follow trends?

[Amanda Montell]

The same logic as investing in a good classic winter coat?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Or is it because we have so

[Amanda Montell]

many more photos of weddings now than our parents generation ever did? Or maybe something else?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What do you think?

[Amanda Montell]

I think timeless right now. I think timeless is a euphemism for like some type of elitist bullshit.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like timeless, if they're timeless, is like bourgeois WASPy white.

[Amanda Montell]

100%. 100%. I. I think it is a dog whistle. I think timeless is a red flag. And it's. And it's also a ridiculous thing, this concept. Like, if you can guarantee anything, it is the passage of time. Like, you cannot beat time.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

You know, I, and I said bourgeois earlier, but I really think that like, like you said, it's a euphemism. I think that it's a way of saying, I don't want to think tacky. I'm scared of having something tacky at my wedding.

[Amanda Montell]

Tacky being, like, living in a moment and let me know. But I mean, I think. Okay, I think two probably discourse about the wedding needing to be timeless followed the, like, Pinterest, DIY millennial aesthetic of, like, mason jars and. And, like, chalkboard signs or whatever. We were like, ew, that is so millennial cringe. We need to return to the Princess Diana aesthetic. But it's like, it's such a futile pursuit, I don't think, like. Well, sure, like, if you're following trends just because everybody else is following trends and they don't feel authentic to you. Yeah. Like, maybe you can think more about. Let me go back to basics. Like, what. What do I really want but that I think inauthenticity should be the enemy, not like time stamping or trendiness.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I. But I do think that, like, part of this too, is, like, if I avoid anything tacky or Pinteresty, then I'm also rejecting wedding culture in a way. Right. Like, if we, like, there is an understanding of wedding culture as culture almost as, like, the thing that you're trying to avoid.

[Melody Raul]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

I don't know. I think the word timeless, if you're

[Anne Helen Peterson]

timeless, you're like a J. Crew sweater from 1980. Right.

[Amanda Montell]

It's so. It's just. I. I think timeless is just like a genre of wedding. It's like, do you want, like, a fairy tale wedding with a ball gown? Do you want, like, a sexy girl wedding with, like, a mermaid dress?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, but what does that look? What does timeless look like? How do you see it, what it looks like?

[Amanda Montell]

What do I think timeless looks like? Oh, that's so funny. That's such a good question. I imagine like Audrey Hepburn. I imagine like a kind of like a plain, but, like, flawlessly executed, maybe like off French twist.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

French twist?

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, French. Certainly an updo. You know, it's like past hors d', oeuvres, you know, black tie. Just, I think of, like, high class, you know? Like, I think it's just. I think it's just a synonym. It's really just a euphemism for, like, expensive.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Expensive and spending your money on the right things. Right? Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

And like, minim. A little more minimalistic, but, like.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

So again, because you have to avoid tackiness, because tackiness is showing off your money in some way. Right. Like, it has to be Subdued luxury.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, my God. I remember. Okay. I. I did not wear. I did not wear a wedding dress, but I didn't. I wore. I wore. I wear a pink dress, but I did go wedding dress shopping. I. I mean, of course, like, it's like, so fun. I tried on, like, so many wedding dresses, and some I just tried on, like, as a bit, and I tried on this one dress that I like. I could not believe how not me it was. It was like, so popular and it was like, it had kind of like a bandage, like cut or whatever. Like, it was so.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Around the midsection. And it was. And it was, I think, but I think it was what people might conceive of as timeless. It was just like very simple, just like figure fitting and off the shoulder and whatever. And it immediately inspired in me this alter ego named Antoinetta. And Antoinetta was, like, wasted and had just found out the day before the wedding that her husband to be's family had actually lost all their wealth. And it was all a facade. And so she was marrying into this, like, fraudulence. And it just. I was, like, overcome with this timeless Antoinetta, like, old money, like, performative, like, Gilmore Girls Persona. It was. It was really fun for 10 years.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like, timeless is miserable, man. Yeah, it is.

[Amanda Montell]

Timeless is miserable. Like, get a personality.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

The culture study podcast is sponsored by Wild Alaskan. So, Melody, we just had to get a new grill, but can I tell you why?

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

It's because if you don't put a cover on your grill here, if, say, someone who is the grill master in your home, that is not me, maybe forgets to put the COVID on because it's really annoying. And then it starts to rust out, and then, like, the bottom starts to rust out, and then you can't use your grill anymore. That's when you have to buy a new grill.

[Melody Raul]

That sounds terrible, but also thrilling.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I'm really excited, actually, to have this functioning grill. So excited that I took my last two packets of the sockeye salmon out of the freez, and they're currently defrosting and I'm going to eat them for dinner tomorrow night. And it's going to be amazing. Just a light marinade, like maybe just a tiny bit of soy sauce, tiny bit of oil, salt and pepper, you're good. And unlike other places where you're kind of like, here's this frozen fish that's like, I don't know where it's coming from. I don't know how it was caught. I don't know if it was ethically caught. When you get your package from Wild Alaskan, you know exactly how it was caught. You know where it was caught, you know, you know the practices that they used. You know that it's high quality seafood. Wild Alaskan company offers the best way to get wild caught. High quality seafood delivered to your door on your schedule. Each Wild Alaskan box comes with individually portioned fillets. They're vacuum sealed, easy to prep and great for any meal no matter how quick. Like if you're just throwing it on the grill or I don't know if you're going for an elevated experience. All the fish is quick frozen fresh from the Alaskan waters, which helps lock in its freshness, texture and flavor and key ingredients like omega 3s. It's also fish you can trust with no GMOs, antibiotics or other additives. Wild Alaskan Co. Is so confident that their fish is the best that they offer 100% satisfaction and money back guarantee. So you can try your first box risk free. Go to wildalaskan.comculture for $35 off your first order of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.comculture, for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Today's episode is sponsored by Aura Frames. So Melody, do you know what the, like, number one gift on Mother's Day is? The thing that like everyone gives their

[Melody Raul]

moms, I'm assuming, flowers.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yes, it is. It's flowers. And if I were a mom, I'm not. But if I were a mom, I would be like lovely flowers. But also maybe you got me flowers every single year. Maybe there's a way for like a very simple and straightforward way to upgrade from the usual Mother's Day flowers. I cannot tell you what a crowd pleaser. Like every single person I know who's given their aura frame as a gift to their mom, it's been a massive hit.

[Melody Raul]

Imagine the aura frame like a bouquet of photos that never dies that you never have to throw in the trash.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

It never dies. And if you like maybe looked into digital frames a while ago and thought like, I don't know, like the quality isn't that great and they have improved so much. It is beautiful, crisp and it's so easy to upload your photos to it. Both like before it arrives to your mom in lieu of Mother's Day flowers, but also as you go through the year. And if you have the app on your phone, like you can just press a button or you can text it to this number that serves as like a very easy shortcut for it to just go to the frame and then it can surprise them. So you can even play jokes too. If you have a mom who likes funny things, we could like send weird memes. There's all sorts of fun things that you could do.

[Melody Raul]

You've given me some ideas.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I know, I know. The Aura frame has free unlimited storage. Like I said before, you can preload the photos before it ships. It also has a very tasteful gift box so it looks fancy and not just like someone I don't know ordered it off the Internet. It looks nice. Make Mother's Day special with Aura Frames. Right now you can save on the gifts moms love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their bestselling carver mat frame. That's the one that I have with Code culture. That's a frames.com promo. Code culture. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, next question comes from Aya.

[Amanda Montell]

When I think about my parents wedding photos, there are a handful of pictures and that's it. It. I'm curious about the ways that social media, including the early days of blogging, have affected this notion that any experience, adventure or wedding are all ways to generate content that is meant to be shared online. I find myself being more thoughtful about the contentification of my life, pushing back and asking myself why I'm taking a picture or if I need to share it online. And I'm wondering if the wedding industry industry is experiencing this too. Is not documenting or not sharing the wedding a trend?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Love this question. I think so.

[Amanda Montell]

Not sharing the wedding is because people

[Anne Helen Peterson]

or, or just doing one carousel.

[Amanda Montell]

I did. I did three

[Anne Helen Peterson]

also. You had a good, like a wedding that like you wanted to show off. You know what I mean?

[Amanda Montell]

Okay. But this is really interesting. This is now, I think, a really interesting thought exercise when. When thinking about what you want to spend your money on for the wedding, it could. You could ask yourself, if I were not to share this on social media, none of it, what would I choose? What would be important to me?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yep. Yep.

[Amanda Montell]

That could be an interesting. Exactly. Exercise. It reminds me of the. The trendification of not posting the wedding reminds me of how now it's trendy to only post your pregnancy announcement when you're like nine months pregnant or when the baby is born. Like, surprise, I have a baby. Instead of like posting this on gram or whatever.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

100%. And I think that like, like, did you follow Alison Roman's like, wedding pictures, like, all those sorts of things. It's just very, very chill. Right? Like, can't be like, oh, we're just gonna, like, casually throw, like, a couple of pictures up, right? And, like, they might not even actually be on the grid.

[Amanda Montell]

Could never be me. Could never be me. Oh, my God. I wear butterfly wings. Like, people have to see, you know, the.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

The. The tension between, like, a billion photos, which I think is digital photography, is the thing that has really facilitated this. Right? Yeah. The. The tension between a billion photos and not as many photos is I find that my friends who had a billion photos at their wedding, they don't actually ever look at them. They're on a thumb drive. Right. And they're not, like, accessible to them in a way that's meaningful. Like, they probably actually see the pictures that are in my Facebook album that I tagged in 2009 of them. Like, because I bring them up and, like, send them, and I'm like, look at you. Like, you know, like, totally unprofessional photos more than their professional photos.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, I. It was. I'll just say it was very important to me not to have the, like, forced, staged, like, family photos. We didn't have any of those. My wedding photographer. He's not a wedding photographer. He is this unbelievably talented photographer named Selah Shaloni, and he did this as a favor, and. God, I love our wedding photos. But, yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of thinking to yourself, what if I were a chill girl and didn't post anything? What would I choose?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But only if you feel like that's you. Right? Because I think, like, just don't do what you don't want to do. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna try to get through a couple more of these kind. Not rapid fires in, like, one word answer, but you and I will both give our little take. Okay, this question also is about aesthetics, and it comes from Julia.

[Melody Raul]

How and why has the second or

[Anne Helen Peterson]

reception look become such a phenomenon?

[Melody Raul]

In weddings, wedding dresses and suits or

[Anne Helen Peterson]

tuxes tend to be very expensive, so

[Melody Raul]

buying another outfit seems like a surefire way to blow your wedding budget out of the water. Also, the first or ceremony look is

[Anne Helen Peterson]

usually stunning and, again, expensive, so why make the outfit change? This is coming from a 2027 bride,

[Melody Raul]

so I'm genuinely curious and baffled by this trend.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

How many wedding outfits did you have?

[Amanda Montell]

Three. Three. I'll tell you why. I had a suit for when people were arriving because it's traditional these days for the bride to be like hidden until she walks down the aisle or whatever. I was like, no, I want to be there. Like we had a fucking harpist and like champagne flutes with cotton candy in them. I was like, I want to be there, but I don't want people to like see my outfit yet. So I had a suit that actually I was sent for free because I know the marketing girly at Cezanne. Haha. So lucky me.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That's awesome though. I love a suit too. Like that you're like, hey guys, welcome to my wedding. You go into the closet and turn it, put on your dress. Like, hey, I'm here again.

[Amanda Montell]

Casey and I were both in suits and then everybody went down to the ceremony area and I went into my parents bedroom and put on the most ridiculous, ridiculous pink Glinda ass dress you've ever seen. And Casey and I walked down. It wasn't an aisle, but we walked down the little staircase together. And then I couldn't dance in that dress because it was long and I

[Anne Helen Peterson]

was wearing these big ass heels.

[Amanda Montell]

So then I had to put on the little short dress. So that was just me. But if it baffles you, don't do it. I mean, why do you.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That's a great. That's such a good, that's a, such, such a good, like, I don't know, like, what's the word?

[Amanda Montell]

Rule of thumb.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like a rule of thumb, whatever. That if it baffles you, fuck it. Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Like it baffled me to have thousands of dollars of flower arrangements. I was like, no, I'm gonna go to Trader Joe's and get like little bouquets of flowers and put them in bud vases. And that's what we did. But having three outfits, whatever the opposite of baffle is, that's what it did to me.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I think it really depends on your personality because I too would like, I love an outfit and it would be. There's so few opportunities in my current life to like exactly wear those three outfits. And then also the point and going to Julia's question about like why people have a second outfit, especially for the reception. I think a lot of it is like, do you want to dance? If you don't want to dance, whatever. But like a lot of people want to like really go after it on like, they envision their reception not as like demurely going from table to table saying hi to every single person that came and like maybe stuffing a piece of steak in your mouth. They see it as like, I'm going to shovel that food in and then I'm going to dance for literally four hours. Like that is my dream.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. So our situation was the dinner was like the main event. It was like a bacchanal. I have a magician friend who did a magic show during this, the dinner. You're like, never speak to me. Okay.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

The thing that I've noticed as you've talked about all of this stuff though, in what I think people should like internalize, is each person who did something at your wedding was a friend of yours.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

They were part of your community.

[Amanda Montell]

Yes.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And so there is a real difference between. And then I decided I wanted a magician and so I had to outsource finding a magician. And then there was this random magician guy doing tricks in the court. You know what I mean? Like, this is special to incorporate his skills into your party.

[Amanda Montell]

Exactly. No, it was, it was so, so special. But the movement, like being constricted and wedding dresses, a lot of the times are really constricting. And so I think people want to strip that off and whatever have like a looser outfit. But that maybe wouldn't look. Look formal enough for the ceremony. But I could not endorse enough. Just not getting a wedding dress. Like there are.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

You can thrift and then spend all that money to alter it to your specifications and taste. You can, you can just get like a white non wedding gown. And again, just spend the money on altering it and you'll still end up spending way, way less. I. Yeah, I could not recommend enough. Just not getting a like build wedding dress.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and also like I even look at Anthropologie has like a wedding arm or J. Crew has a wedding arm. And like the way that the cost goes up just because it's like placed into the wedding section is phenomenal. Like find a dress that you love and wear that dress.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, I loved wearing pink and having everyone else wear white.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And even, even. And I keep saying dress. Find an outfit that you love. Like it could be. Does not have to be a dress.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. You could wear a cape and bloomers if you really want.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, I'm going to use this as our final question because it's very astute and I think will give us something to think about as we try to wrap up. This comes from Anna.

[Guest or caller (possibly a listener submitting a question)]

There seems to be an inverse correlation between how much changes in your life from before and after a wedding and how elaborate the bachelor and bachelorette parties have become. Four decades ago, a bachelor party was one night typically, and a bachelorette was maybe a lingerie gift at your shower or a Little lingerie shower once the older relatives left your bridal shower, and at that time, you probably were celebrating the loss of quote, unquote, freedom in a meaningful way. You might not have been living together before you got married. You probably still had separate bank accounts, etc. Now, Bachelor and bachelorette parties are so often very elaborate vacations, but what they are marking the last ditch party before the big change of the wedding is actually very insignificant. Most people I know who have these parties are already living together, sharing finances, going on vacations together, and so on. Often there isn't even a name change involved after the wedding. Is there something to this inverse correlation or is the answer just that everything that can be photographed has gotten more intense?

[Amanda Montell]

Both. Yes.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

So I looked into this somewhat carefully because I did an episode of my podcast Sounds like a Cult on the cult of bachelorette parties, for which I interviewed this sociologist that I keep referencing, Beth Montimuro, and she talked about how. So the bachelorette party, as a phrase and thus, like a marketable concept, didn't really come about until the early 1980s. The bachelor party is older and way older. Was more of this, like, last hurrah before you lock it down with the ball and chain. That wouldn't make sense in the days of yore for a woman because, like, there was nothing to sacrifice. She was, like, finally fulfilling her life's purpose by becoming a bride.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Right.

[Amanda Montell]

And.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And also, like, no understanding that, like, a woman could go out and like, have a party of sexual liberation.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, no. Hell no. No, no, no. And then once, you know, 1970s have been women's liberation, sexual revolution, blah, blah, blah. And then of course, the economic boom of the 1980s, then women started kind of parodying and parroting what had become traditional for a bachelor party by throwing a kind of ridiculous, extravagant event of their own with, like, penis straws and last dick forever and da da, da, which is obviously like a joke. Like, it's like, it's like making fun of men, Right. But also not necessarily. It's in the pursuit of making fun of men. It's also maybe not the most authentic way of like, celebrating friendship, which was ultimately through Beth Montimarrow studies. What, what bachelorette parties were really about. It's like, you know, I actually, I have a friend who's. Whose wedding I attended last year, and she threw a bachelorette party at the Madonna Inn in California, which I don't know if. If you know what that is, but. No, it's this amazing hotel with all these themed rooms. It's Just the pinnacle of kitsch. And it's just a great place for a bachelorette party. I was like, damn it, that's so good. But she said that she felt like she got, she had just gotten married to all her friends. And so it's just like, it's an opportunity to celebrate like the other loves of your life. But yeah, I mean women are just like able to that women. Women are more liberated now. And so we're able to and you know, more financially independent than we've ever been. And so yeah, we can throw like our, our big ass bachelorette party to celebrate our friends. And you know, weddings and marriage don't change our identities quite as much. And so yeah, there is an inverse correlation. And bachelorette culture and esthetics are also heavily influenced by Pinterest and social media both.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And so smart. And I think also might help us reframe some of what, I don't know, just the general denigration of bachelorette parties. For me, I think the ones that are the best and like how I'd love to just recently to recenter the friendship part, right when they get annoying is when it's actually just a group of like, you're like, I have to invite all these people and like they're actually. They kind of hate each other or like travel in very different ways or you know what I mean? Like, and then you turn it into this event and someone else is planning and everyone gets mad at each other and it's super expensive. Like the ones that I have loved have just been like, let's go hang out for a weekend. And I think that is why they have become so significant is because with what I call calendar culture where everyone in their 30s is just like, nope, busy this weekend. Can we like push bump this to six months from now? Like when can anyone get their schedules together? A bachelor or bachelorette party trumps other things in a way that is socially acceptable. So I into my mind, I just wish that we could be like, I want to hang out with my friends and it's okay to go someplace with them. You know what I mean?

[Amanda Montell]

Exactly. Yeah. But for some reason we need this kind of like fascistic, like if you don't want a shirt and everyone to

[Anne Helen Peterson]

wear the same shirt and like have the same penis hat.

[Amanda Montell]

Like, I know again, I, I keep talking about the events that I threw for my like general wedding season, but I really did love them. I had like the gayest, like the queerest bachelorette party ever. There was not one straight person there. It we did it in New Orleans, where my mom is from. And like, it was so me. It was, it was totally over the top. We, like, dressed like, like witches and I don't even know it. We went to an event called Pitties and Titties, which was burlesque in a dog park.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But again, this sounds like a party I would like to go to. Right? And also one that didn't feel like, compulsory. Like, you're like, and I guess I'm going to spend a thousand dollars on this bachelorette party when. For this shirt that I'm never going to wear again. Like, oh, I get to go to. I gotta go to Pitties and Titties.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. And I, I pay. I paid for our lodging because I was like, I want this. Like, I want this fancy Airbnb. And I'm not gonna make, like, my artist friends pay for this. Like, I'm gonna pay for this. And I mean, it was not cheap for anyone. Like, let me be clear. But, but, but, yeah, I was just like, this is what I want and I don't want to make that other people's problem.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

But it was also, it was also really sweet. It was like, you know, my. My friends care about my partnership with, With Casey. And we did this like, beautiful ritual where like, they each, you know, wrote down kind of like a well wish for our partnership. And like, we did, you know, a little cheeky, like, mystical thing with it. And they like pieced them in this. In this little booklet that they made with like a moon and me and Casey on it. It was just like, it was so corny, but it was so. It was so sweet. It was just. It felt like my friends being like, we're gonna send you on your way into this, like, new phase of your partnership. I just, I loved it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and this, I think gets kind of brings us full circle both in terms of, like, if something sounds bonkers to you, don't do it. Like, if you don't want a bachelorette party, no one has to throw you one. If you. If a bachelorette party that's a sleepover at your house sounds awesome, do that right. If that sounds awesome. Pities and titties also awesome. But also the re. Ritualization. Right? So, like, religion used to be the way that all of us made sense of our lives. And we have lost a lot of that. Not everyone, but many people have lost that as like the, the primary way that we understand the way we go through the world. And so how do you re. Ritualize, add meaningful communication, like all These different things, things that stick with you and make, like, demarcate something. Like, you can figure out what that is. It doesn't have to be timeless. It can be anything that you want. And, yeah, I think, like, the going through all of these questions, I just really think the more that you spend time contemplating discerning what's really important to you, and maybe that's not having a wedding. Whatever it is, listen to, like, actually listen to what's going on in your head. And your partner said, like, together.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What do you envision the experience that you want to have being? Like, what you're like, your parents, your. Like, everyone's experience. Like, what do you want them to leave feeling like?

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. I totally agree. I. What. What gave me these cringetastic feelings about wedding culture, I think was ultimately connected to the fact that for women, a wedding used to be this, like, rigid thing that you had to do because you had to get married in order to be, like, seen as valuable in society. And now they're framed as this extravagant thing that you'd be crazy not to want to do. And I don't. I don't like either of those options. And consumerism replaced religion so smoothly as the generations went by as the kind of justification for why we do this, that. And I don't. That I didn't even, like, notice why I was creeped out by the whole thing. But at the end of the day, yeah. I think the wedding planning process really showed me and Casey, like, a new way of collaborating on something.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

And that was really positive for us. But if I had a different personality, I would love to know what my life would be like in general if I had a different personality. But that's.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That's life's glorious tapestry, right? Is that we all get to have a different personality.

[Amanda Montell]

Indeed.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Amanda, you have a new paper back out.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Guest or caller (possibly a listener submitting a question)]

Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

My third book, the Age of Magical Overthinking, is newly out in paperback. I. I do talk a little bit, actually, about some misconceptions that I held about wedding traditions in a certain chapter of that book where I. I believed this stupid piece of misinformation about the origin of the bridal bouquet, because I read it literally in every source, and I was just like, yeah, sure, that's. That seems true, even though I felt in my bones it wasn't. And then a medievalist corrected me, but I was just like, why. Why do I believe things that I know in my bones can't be true just because I, like, read them multiple times? And that has to do with a cognitive bias called the illusory truth effect. But anyway, the book. The book investigates different types of modern irrationality from the Zeitgeist and my own personal life through the lens of of cognitive biases. And it was a delight to write.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

It's fantastic and I will put links to all different places to buy it in the show Notes and where can people find you if they want to find more of you on the Internet?

[Amanda Montell]

Well, if you want to see my wedding photos, you can find them on my Instagram Mandamontel and I have a couple of podcasts. Anne Helen Peterson was a guest on our episode on the Cult of Tradwives on my podcast Sounds like a Cult. I also have a podcast called Magical Overthinkers about the buzzy, confounding emotional conundrums we can't stop overthinking about. And then I'm the author of a few different books that you can find wherever books are sold. Wordslut Cultish the Age of Magical Overthinking Amazing.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Thank you so much. This has been an absolute delight. Sorry, I just keep thinking of funny things that you said.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh my God, what fun. I never tire of talking talking about this wedding. Really.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast today. Paid subscribers got a bonus conversation between Melody and me about how we find new music. It's not the ways you might expect, so if you want to support the show and be sure you always get that bonus content, head to patreon.com culturestudy it's 5 bucks a month or 50 a year and you'll get ad free episodes, an exclusive Advice time segment and weekly discussion threads for each episode. And be sure to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. We have so many great episodes in the works and I promise you don't want to miss any of them. If you want to suggest a topic, ask a question about the culture that surrounds you or submit a question for our subscriber only Advice Time segment, go to our google [e-mail] culturestudypod or check the show notes for a link. The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Peterson and Melody Raul. Our music is by Poddington Bear. You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson, Melody at Melodious 47 and the show at Culture Study PO.